Also, I cringed in the ARG where he stated "As your Chancellor, I would never lie to you". Straight away i thought "J'mpok you idiot. You just handed J'ula a political and moral victory. She will use that line against you".
Well... he did. And she called him out on it. Quite easily in fact, because the very thing he lied about... was standing in the Council Chamber.
Martok.
The SECOND J'Ula said that, Martok became a threat to J'mpok. Even if Martok was siding with J'mpok against J'Ula... his very existance calls into question J'mpok's legitamacy as Chancellor. And thus... Kitomer happened.
Indeed. That's what i was thinking when J'ula was speaking in the chamber. I like how all of the past several years of game, lore blogs and back story are coming together for the Klingons.
Oh and bonus, I got the Klingon Civil War i wanted Now we will get several episodes and a good storyline as we watch the Klingon empire tear itself apart. Who will be standing as Chancellor when all of this is over.
J'mpok needs to die I dont want Martok as I would feel that would be a replay. Definitely not J'ula. I hope for a Cryptic original character. That would be a great addition I feel to the game,
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,671Community Moderator
I don't think people would accept Kagran though, citing his performance during the Iconian War. And they won't use Koren because she's Captain of the Klingon flagship.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,671Community Moderator
Adet'pa?
Considering she's Mo'kai... that's a stretch.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I don't think people would accept Kagran though, citing his performance during the Iconian War. And they won't use Koren because she's Captain of the Klingon flagship.
Sorry, when i said original I mean a new charater. Maybe one that is introduced in the next episode that has quite a history and during the civil war rises to a position where they can challenge for leadership. Or is maybe responsible is bringing both J'ula and J'mpok to justice?
Imagine how much cred that would give that Klingon in the eyes of the empire?
well, that's going to be the player character, like every other instance we end up bringing the main antagonist to justice...and i have no intention of accepting a chancellorship
maybe cryptic will finally realize 'hey, this is an RPG, the game style where player agency and choice is paramount' and let us choose who the chancellor will be at the end of this
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
This plays well into my toon's story,
My toon and crew are mercenaries caught up in the war
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,671Community Moderator
maybe cryptic will finally realize 'hey, this is an RPG, the game style where player agency and choice is paramount' and let us choose who the chancellor will be at the end of this
Problem. They'd have to have voice actors for every possible choice to take over for EVERY instance of the Chancellor in the future.
And it can't be the player character because technically 3/4 possibilities are NOT KDF. The Klingon Empire will NOT accept a Starfleet Officer, except maybe if they were actually Klingon as Worf could have been in DS9, The Empire will NOT accept a Romulan, and a Jem'Hadar won't accept it because Jem'Hadar is a soldier, not a politician.
No... we're gonna most likely back a single newcomer. I can't see Adet'pa, Martok, or Worf being viable for both in game reasons and out of game reasons, the out of game being that the actors would have to be available for any content that calls for the Chancellor. Which I don't see being possible. So its gotta be someone who they CAN guarantee will be available for VO work. Which leaves two options. Kagran or someone new.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
1) you fight someone else for the chancellorship and lose = your toon ends up in stovokor where it has bank and mail access but can never leave (like a locked captains table).
2) you fight someone else for the chancellorship and win = your toon's avatar is used as the new chancellor with generic voice over and is free to do whatever in game with a new title of "Chancellor."
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
1) you fight someone else for the chancellorship and lose = your toon ends up in stovokor where it has bank and mail access but can never leave (like a locked captains table).
2) you fight someone else for the chancellorship and win = your toon's avatar is used as the new chancellor with generic voice over and is free to do whatever in game with a new title of "Chancellor."
CM
This would work only for characters who are actually klingon, no true blood klingon would accept an orion, a gorn or Kahless knows what else as head of the Klingon Empire. Accept them to serve in KDF even in a major position, sure but not as head of the empire.
and as others have pointed out non-KDF players (even members of allied factions) are out without question. Making the player character the new Chancellor just raises more problems then it solves.
Also in regards to Honor among the Klingons, we must remember that Klingon concept of Honor is mostly external (meaning you're judged to have(or not have) honor by other Klingons) rather then internal (meaning following a specific "honor code"), thus the concept of whose honorable for a Klingon is somewhat flexible.
Also IIRC Martok did essentially die in his duel with J'mpok but instead of allowing him to pass on, J'mpok shipped Martok (or allowed his minions to do so) to the Briar Patch which brought Martok back to life, so you can't really blame Martok for living as he really didn't have choice in the matter and I suspect fighting his way out of Briar Patch prison would also make him regain his honor in the eyes of other Klingons.
I think the biggest indicator of J'mpok's dishonor (in the eyes of other klingons at least) would be him staying at homefront during the Hur'q conflict. While it might have been justified it certainly lacked the symbolic status a chancellor of the high council is suppose to have.
As for K'mpek I got the picture that he was out of his depth as politician and the civil war (which btw did happen because Gowron became chancellor) was due to Duras having convinced many klingons that it was a lie that his father was responsible and any chancellor who would claim that was liar and had no honor (and thus was no true klingon). So it was less a case of K'mpek being slimy and more the case of him being put between a rock and hard place and desiding to pin the blame on someone who he thought wouldn't be hurt by it.
Also IIRC Martok did essentially die in his duel with J'mpok but instead of allowing him to pass on, J'mpok shipped Martok (or allowed his minions to do so) to the Briar Patch which brought Martok back to life, so you can't really blame Martok for living as he really didn't have choice in the matter and I suspect fighting his way out of Briar Patch prison would also make him regain his honor in the eyes of other Klingons.
Actually what happened was that J'mpok "killed" Martok, then walked out of the hall with Martok's body still on the floor. Then people working for Torg slipped in(or were already there), and used medical tech to keep Martok from being fully dead, and hauled him off to the Briar Patch so they could keep him locked up, as Trog planned to use Martok as a tool against J'mpok.
J'mpok had no knowledge that Martok was still alive until Rodek went to Adet'pa and learned such information shortly before we go rescue Martok.
I stand corrected, regardless though it wasn't really Martok's dishonor here as a corpse (or someone who is practically a corpse) has little way of stopping what happened to him and as I said the fact that Martok fought his way out of the prison would make him regain honor in the eyes of other klingons.
Also we can probably call Kurn by his real name rather then the alias used to protect him from the enemies of House Mogh.
> @spiritborn said: > (Quote) > > Yeah same actor but not same character Landry was mauled to death and while we didn't see the details there's no reason to assume she survived. > > Also the voice for Adep'ta isn't the same as Landry (beyond the fact that they shared the actor) as Adep'ta has a weird accent I can't really place while Landry didn't. > > https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ellen_Landry > > Memory Alpha page for Landry (as she's a canon character rather then a STO original).
It’s a bad Russian accent...well not as bad as Checkov’s—-still very Boris and Natasha.
But Discovery references Russian accents for their Klingons too—so I found it an interesting commentary on the Fed-Klingon Cold War analogy.
> @spiritborn said:
> (Quote)
>
> Yeah same actor but not same character Landry was mauled to death and while we didn't see the details there's no reason to assume she survived.
>
> Also the voice for Adep'ta isn't the same as Landry (beyond the fact that they shared the actor) as Adep'ta has a weird accent I can't really place while Landry didn't.
>
> https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ellen_Landry
>
> Memory Alpha page for Landry (as she's a canon character rather then a STO original).
It’s a bad Russian accent...well not as bad as Checkov’s—-still very Boris and Natasha.
But Discovery references Russian accents for their Klingons too—so I found it an interesting commentary on the Fed-Klingon Cold War analogy.
Well it's sometimes said that klingons were suppose to be the stands ins for USSR in TOS (with Romulans being stand ins for Communist China), so it kind of makes sense for them to have russian (or faux russian) accents.
The last big "What the?" thing was Kagran and Shon's actions, as the confrontation just does not make sense; Koren's response should have been the attitude of all of them, as they all know the player well enough to think "hold on, lets stop and try to understand this situation, because this does not make sense". Although I'll grant I was really confused on what was happening by that point...
I didn't mind this because the way they did it makes sense:
IE -
If you're on a Klingon KDF aligned Character; the Captain of the Bortas sides with you, while Shon (Federation) is unsure but sticks with J'mpok for now. (To me that DOES make sense because no matter what, the underpinning of Star Trek has been that the Feds still don't trust the KDF completely. thus your previous actions don't hold totally convincing weight in Shon's eyes; and J'mpok is still the legal/legitimate head of the Klingon Empire) - and it makes for good 'TV style Tension/Drama' which is what they're emulating.
If you're on a Fed Aligned character, The Federation Captain Shon sides with you; and the Bortas' Klingon Captain sides with the Empire and the Chancellor. Which again makes sense because in the end, Klingons trust NOBODY outside the Empire and look sideways at other Klingons.
(I haven't played this on any of my Rom characters or my Lone Jem Hadar character, so I don't know if they added any further permutations for the final confrontation of episode 2.)
What I LIKED is that for once, what you played has an actual visceral affect on the outcome storywise - IE who sides with whom in the final confrontation of the second episode. I don't think Cryptic has done something to the degree they did here with any other mission (IE - I've only seen minor dialogue changes before, which these missions had as well as what they did at the end of Mission 2.)
anyone else have a problem with the Alliance blatantly interfering with internal Klingon politics?
Nope because the Alliance is NOT just The Federation and the Klingon Empire any longer. If anything it's the fact the Alliance exists that allow the Federation and Romulan Republic to take a direct interest and hand in the outcome. This ain't the TNG/DS9/VOY 24th century anymore - it's the new 25th century Trek. (influenced greatly by the 23rd, 26th, 28th, 31st and 32nd century Trek as Time travel/anomalies allow.)
Post edited by crypticarmsman on
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,671Community Moderator
(I haven't played this on any of my Rom characters or my Lone Jem Hadar character, so I don't know if they added any further permutations for the final confrontation of episode 2.)
Word is that its based on your ally faction for Rom and JH. Although I CAN confirm that some dialog is different in that patrol where you fight J'Ula while rescuing Klingon ships, with J'Ula trying to appeal to the Jem'Hadar sense of honor and that they'd be valued more in the Empire than by their False Gods. For Romulans she basically says "side with me or get crushed under Klingon boots when we claim the Galaxy as is our right", and also says that the Republic must make that same choice.
Also... J'Ula remembers a Disco Fed character in the second episode.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So the Chairman of the Alliance has a shuttle crash in his future, you're saying? (Which may or may not be sabotage. I understand there's a theory that the plane crash that killed Hammarskjöld was an assassination?)
Comments
Indeed. That's what i was thinking when J'ula was speaking in the chamber. I like how all of the past several years of game, lore blogs and back story are coming together for the Klingons.
Oh and bonus, I got the Klingon Civil War i wanted
J'mpok needs to die
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Considering she's Mo'kai... that's a stretch.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Sorry, when i said original I mean a new charater. Maybe one that is introduced in the next episode that has quite a history and during the civil war rises to a position where they can challenge for leadership. Or is maybe responsible is bringing both J'ula and J'mpok to justice?
Imagine how much cred that would give that Klingon in the eyes of the empire?
maybe cryptic will finally realize 'hey, this is an RPG, the game style where player agency and choice is paramount' and let us choose who the chancellor will be at the end of this
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My toon and crew are mercenaries caught up in the war
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Problem. They'd have to have voice actors for every possible choice to take over for EVERY instance of the Chancellor in the future.
And it can't be the player character because technically 3/4 possibilities are NOT KDF. The Klingon Empire will NOT accept a Starfleet Officer, except maybe if they were actually Klingon as Worf could have been in DS9, The Empire will NOT accept a Romulan, and a Jem'Hadar won't accept it because Jem'Hadar is a soldier, not a politician.
No... we're gonna most likely back a single newcomer. I can't see Adet'pa, Martok, or Worf being viable for both in game reasons and out of game reasons, the out of game being that the actors would have to be available for any content that calls for the Chancellor. Which I don't see being possible. So its gotta be someone who they CAN guarantee will be available for VO work. Which leaves two options. Kagran or someone new.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
1) you fight someone else for the chancellorship and lose = your toon ends up in stovokor where it has bank and mail access but can never leave (like a locked captains table).
2) you fight someone else for the chancellorship and win = your toon's avatar is used as the new chancellor with generic voice over and is free to do whatever in game with a new title of "Chancellor."
CM
This would work only for characters who are actually klingon, no true blood klingon would accept an orion, a gorn or Kahless knows what else as head of the Klingon Empire. Accept them to serve in KDF even in a major position, sure but not as head of the empire.
and as others have pointed out non-KDF players (even members of allied factions) are out without question. Making the player character the new Chancellor just raises more problems then it solves.
Also IIRC Martok did essentially die in his duel with J'mpok but instead of allowing him to pass on, J'mpok shipped Martok (or allowed his minions to do so) to the Briar Patch which brought Martok back to life, so you can't really blame Martok for living as he really didn't have choice in the matter and I suspect fighting his way out of Briar Patch prison would also make him regain his honor in the eyes of other Klingons.
I think the biggest indicator of J'mpok's dishonor (in the eyes of other klingons at least) would be him staying at homefront during the Hur'q conflict. While it might have been justified it certainly lacked the symbolic status a chancellor of the high council is suppose to have.
As for K'mpek I got the picture that he was out of his depth as politician and the civil war (which btw did happen because Gowron became chancellor) was due to Duras having convinced many klingons that it was a lie that his father was responsible and any chancellor who would claim that was liar and had no honor (and thus was no true klingon). So it was less a case of K'mpek being slimy and more the case of him being put between a rock and hard place and desiding to pin the blame on someone who he thought wouldn't be hurt by it.
I stand corrected, regardless though it wasn't really Martok's dishonor here as a corpse (or someone who is practically a corpse) has little way of stopping what happened to him and as I said the fact that Martok fought his way out of the prison would make him regain honor in the eyes of other klingons.
Also we can probably call Kurn by his real name rather then the alias used to protect him from the enemies of House Mogh.
> (Quote)
>
> Yeah same actor but not same character Landry was mauled to death and while we didn't see the details there's no reason to assume she survived.
>
> Also the voice for Adep'ta isn't the same as Landry (beyond the fact that they shared the actor) as Adep'ta has a weird accent I can't really place while Landry didn't.
>
> https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ellen_Landry
>
> Memory Alpha page for Landry (as she's a canon character rather then a STO original).
It’s a bad Russian accent...well not as bad as Checkov’s—-still very Boris and Natasha.
But Discovery references Russian accents for their Klingons too—so I found it an interesting commentary on the Fed-Klingon Cold War analogy.
Well it's sometimes said that klingons were suppose to be the stands ins for USSR in TOS (with Romulans being stand ins for Communist China), so it kind of makes sense for them to have russian (or faux russian) accents.
I didn't mind this because the way they did it makes sense:
IE -
If you're on a Klingon KDF aligned Character; the Captain of the Bortas sides with you, while Shon (Federation) is unsure but sticks with J'mpok for now. (To me that DOES make sense because no matter what, the underpinning of Star Trek has been that the Feds still don't trust the KDF completely. thus your previous actions don't hold totally convincing weight in Shon's eyes; and J'mpok is still the legal/legitimate head of the Klingon Empire) - and it makes for good 'TV style Tension/Drama' which is what they're emulating.
If you're on a Fed Aligned character, The Federation Captain Shon sides with you; and the Bortas' Klingon Captain sides with the Empire and the Chancellor. Which again makes sense because in the end, Klingons trust NOBODY outside the Empire and look sideways at other Klingons.
(I haven't played this on any of my Rom characters or my Lone Jem Hadar character, so I don't know if they added any further permutations for the final confrontation of episode 2.)
What I LIKED is that for once, what you played has an actual visceral affect on the outcome storywise - IE who sides with whom in the final confrontation of the second episode. I don't think Cryptic has done something to the degree they did here with any other mission (IE - I've only seen minor dialogue changes before, which these missions had as well as what they did at the end of Mission 2.)
Nope because the Alliance is NOT just The Federation and the Klingon Empire any longer. If anything it's the fact the Alliance exists that allow the Federation and Romulan Republic to take a direct interest and hand in the outcome. This ain't the TNG/DS9/VOY 24th century anymore - it's the new 25th century Trek. (influenced greatly by the 23rd, 26th, 28th, 31st and 32nd century Trek as Time travel/anomalies allow.)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Word is that its based on your ally faction for Rom and JH. Although I CAN confirm that some dialog is different in that patrol where you fight J'Ula while rescuing Klingon ships, with J'Ula trying to appeal to the Jem'Hadar sense of honor and that they'd be valued more in the Empire than by their False Gods. For Romulans she basically says "side with me or get crushed under Klingon boots when we claim the Galaxy as is our right", and also says that the Republic must make that same choice.
Also... J'Ula remembers a Disco Fed character in the second episode.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So the Chairman of the Alliance has a shuttle crash in his future, you're saying? (Which may or may not be sabotage. I understand there's a theory that the plane crash that killed Hammarskjöld was an assassination?)
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010