The problem with the writing is that it isn't until you've done the missions that the situation starts to make sense.
J'mpok has a major problem - he is running out of allies, while his enemies are building up. Especially with a Klingon player.
With a Klingon player having completed the missions up to this point, they are legit one of the greatest warriors in Klingon history, and very likely if they decided to have a shot at the Chancellor's seat, they are more than capable of taking it. And being a living legend who has literally repeated acts of Kahless against Fek'ihri and the Hur'q, and taken on and won against the Borg, Iconians, Undine, the Dominion and whoever else, they wield an enormous amount of respect and there would be many Klingons who would fight and die beside such a legendary warrior who has truly earnt the title of Dahar Master.
Then, there is his old one-eyed enemy Martok still walking, still fighting, and quite possibly still after his old position.
He's trading off the traditionalist power base that got him into power on the back of renewed conflict with the Federation, by allying with the Federation and the Romulans in this Alliance. (which on it's own has been enough to see Klingon warriors calling for blood before now)
If it wasn't for constant outside attackers - the Undine through to the Hur'q - he would be in a very compromised position. Because there has been outside threats he has been able to focus the Klingon war effort elsewhere, but between the logical - but cowardly - reluctance against the Hur'q and the aforementioned politics, he is in an increasingly hard spot.
And now, he has to deal with the blast from the past that is J'ula, who unlike the player, Martok and Worf, is after his head on a pike. And she brings with her A'akar, who himself is somewhat of a loose cannon.
So, for J'mpok, he has Martok, the player and J'ula all in a position where he could take them all out, with plausible deniability if he kills all the witnesses. Which is why he sides with A'akar to get the weapon - he still has a serious major enemy in A'akar, but three of his enemies are dead and gone.
So, the actions of J'mpok make sense; he is a cornered Targ fighting and scheming for his life.
But, J'mpok' is not the only weird-looking thing going on.
The player siding with J'ula - this one can make sense, but it's much less logical than J'mpok's behaviour. For a Fed/Rom/Jem, there is nothing about J'ula that makes her worth siding with; as she correctly points out, this is at most the enemy of my enemy is my... co-belligerent. At best. The script the player has makes that quite clear.
For a Klingon however, it becomes a personal issue - the fate of the Empire is at stake, and frankly J'ula's claims about J'mpok are quite reasonable even before J'mpok's decision to try to kill them; J'ula's stretched out hand after they trip, could be enough of a gesture to tip the balance in J'ula's favour.
For A'akar, siding with J'mpok gets J'ula out of the way without having to take her down directly, and J'ula is a harder opponent to defeat than J'mpok, as his situation is failing while hers is rising. If his motivation is to rule the Empire himself, he needs to take them both out; changing sides to fake loyalty (and no doubt have some sort of countermeasures in the weapon to prevent misuse) while building up his own powerbase would be a viable option.
The last big "What the?" thing was Kagran and Shon's actions, as the confrontation just does not make sense; Koren's response should have been the attitude of all of them, as they all know the player well enough to think "hold on, lets stop and try to understand this situation, because this does not make sense". Although I'll grant I was really confused on what was happening by that point...
I will commend Cryptic for changing what looked like was going to be another milk run. I mean, it still is basically us stomping whoever is in the way, but the story going behind all this made me take notice.
Klingon politics. The Empire is always at war, even if it against itself.
do Kagran (whose stupid plans we made kinda-sorta work during the Iconian War) and either of the captains who start shooting at us (Shon or Koren) side with J'mpok against us so easily?
3)Who the heck...
puts transport ships in easy reach of the PRISONERS on Rura Penthe?
4)When the heck...
can we kill J'mpok, J'Ula, Aakar, and the whole lot of them, and return the Chancellorship to Martok? Because unless he dies in this whole shindig (which I wouldn't be surprised at either), it's coming.
1. IMO, it was because J'Ula's cause was losing. I think he was loyal to her cause until not that long ago when we really were stomping on her forces badly. Aakar saw how things were going and probably made a secret deal with J'mpok to hand over the weapon while probably securing himself a place in the winning side.
2. You have to look at it from the Alliance force members' perspective. The Klingon Empire had been working as part of the Alliance for a while and this isn't the first time the Alliance has helped a member state with problems in their own backyard. In addition, do recall J'Ula's attack at the Starfleet Starbase recently with the virus and everything, and previous battles by the Alliance against her. Kagran, Shon gave you a chance to stand down. Koren was the only one to say "F That" because of the long history with the player character.
Well who says "wait what?!" depends on the faction, it's Koren for KDF, Shon for FED, we got remember that the klingon war (the one that ended in 2410 that is) didn't end that long ago, so the flagship captain of the other faction would suspicious of the player who on was on the other side in that conflict. Besides Shon is also suspicious of J'mpok as well and want the player to surrender to stand trial (presumably he means a fair trial). When playing the mission as FED captain, both Koren and Kagran are out for your blood while Shon helps you.
Until they release a KDF Legendary Ship Bundle, a Klingon Player can never be Legendary.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I understood the mission and what was going on in the midst of the three disconnects and a lot of rubberbanding I had last night. That had to be the worst lag (was frozen at one point and could not move) and rubberbanding I have ever experienced playing Star Trek Online to this point. I played on my main Federation character. Sometime I will experience the mission on my KDF, Fed-Romulan, and Fed'Hadar.
J'ula is a frenemy but she is still not to be trusted. This is apparent in the dialog for my character and I myself still am skeptical about her besides her exposing J'mpok, I do not what her angle is for having a temporary alliance with us to stop Aakar and bring J'mpok to justice but we are definitely not her pawn whether she believes that or not.
As for Koren we saw a hint that something was not right in the episode A Step Between The Stars where she claimed the Jenolan Dyson Sphere in the name of the Klingon Empire which led to a verbal altercation between the three galactic powers where she also threatened to not be part of the Alliance but then conceded in the episode after that called Surface Tension though that now seems like it was a ploy or it was real and she was biding her time to end the Alliance from within so it was real at the moment but was actually fake. She seems similar to L'Rell in Discovery.
I played through the mission and read out the dialog to immerse myself instead of prejudging it. But yes there were hints that J'mpok was questionable and corrupt in the Alliance storyline and the changes to the Klingon tutorial probably make it more obvious. At the same time that a lot of people did not see this coming can be a good thing but it also shows that they were not putting the storyline we have so far together in their mind and processing it, they forgot pieces of the storyline, their prejudgment was apparent about what they wanted the episode to be, and there are most likely other reasons. I would suggest replaying the pertinent episodes that involve Koren, the one involving Martok and J'mpok, as well as reading the Path to 2409 as well as any story blogs connected to this. As for Kagran, that was surprising to me and I did not see that coming but maybe there were hints that something was amiss with him during the Iconian War. I had no problem with Captain Shon's skepticism and it makes to tell a Federation character to run and hide for now because almost the whole Alliance is off to get you as soon as that is over then the player can get a fair trial.
Finally, Khitomer Discord also shows that the Klingon houses many times engage in cloak and dagger tactics against those they call their foes whether it be another house, the Federation, etc. We saw this with the House of Torg in the KDF storyline unless that has been changed with the removal of those patrol missions House Pursued and House on Fire from the now removed Vigilance story arc. Overall, I thought it was a long, good episode and was like watching a Star Trek episode on television. I would have enjoyed it more if I had not had to deal with three disconnects and crazy amounts of rubberbanding during the playthrough. Oh well! Cannot wait for more episodes! The plot thickens.
Are we sure that it was the duplicate J'mpok that was poisoned in 'The Temporal Front'?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
See, I didn't see it as "it becomes apparent" when suddenly we were getting shot at by our side. I saw it as a total out-of-right-field, wut? situation. I was wondering if I'd missed some background talking while I was in combat, because it made no sense whatsoever. Bad writer trying to be cool by adding a Surprise Twist!™ that didn't actually have any forshadowing.
How could it be any more apparent
>J'Ula makes a big point about how J'mpok is kind of a corrupt slimeball in the previous episode
And she's a villain with issues, so I think her opinion is obviously biased (of course the badguy who started a civil war says "the other guy sucks!"), and I give her comment no weight. Which means that...
>Aakar goes "wa ha ha! I teamed up with J'mpok!" in this episode.
>J'mpok's forces start shooting you
Comes out of nowhere.
(also, maybe it's been too long since I played the previous J'ula missions, but did we see Aakar before? When I saw the promo pics, I thought it was Gowron, the previous bulgy-eyed psycho... /google... Aaah, I see. He got a model revamp. To look like Gowron. And those missions came out over a year ago. Ah, well. That's what I get for not replaying the Discovery arc at all beyond their initial release.)
edit: random thought - am I the only one who misses most of those dialogue clips that pop up in combat, because I'm too distracted by being in combat? Also they get kind of drowned out by all the zapping & explosions.
edit: random thought - am I the only one who misses most of those dialogue clips that pop up in combat, because I'm too distracted by being in combat? Also they get kind of drowned out by all the zapping & explosions.
Nope - you aren't the only one.
And the worst part is - they contain important story information. Hello Cryptic - this is NOT a good use of the pop up tool. Especially when you fill the screen wall to wall with enemy ships. We are too busy to read that stuff let alone hear it over everything else!!
The problem with the writing is that it isn't until you've done the missions that the situation starts to make sense.
J'mpok has a major problem - he is running out of allies, while his enemies are building up. Especially with a Klingon player.
With a Klingon player having completed the missions up to this point, they are legit one of the greatest warriors in Klingon history, and very likely if they decided to have a shot at the Chancellor's seat, they are more than capable of taking it. And being a living legend who has literally repeated acts of Kahless against Fek'ihri and the Hur'q, and taken on and won against the Borg, Iconians, Undine, the Dominion and whoever else, they wield an enormous amount of respect and there would be many Klingons who would fight and die beside such a legendary warrior who has truly earnt the title of Dahar Master.
Then, there is his old one-eyed enemy Martok still walking, still fighting, and quite possibly still after his old position.
He's trading off the traditionalist power base that got him into power on the back of renewed conflict with the Federation, by allying with the Federation and the Romulans in this Alliance. (which on it's own has been enough to see Klingon warriors calling for blood before now)
If it wasn't for constant outside attackers - the Undine through to the Hur'q - he would be in a very compromised position. Because there has been outside threats he has been able to focus the Klingon war effort elsewhere, but between the logical - but cowardly - reluctance against the Hur'q and the aforementioned politics, he is in an increasingly hard spot.
And now, he has to deal with the blast from the past that is J'ula, who unlike the player, Martok and Worf, is after his head on a pike. And she brings with her A'akar, who himself is somewhat of a loose cannon.
So, for J'mpok, he has Martok, the player and J'ula all in a position where he could take them all out, with plausible deniability if he kills all the witnesses. Which is why he sides with A'akar to get the weapon - he still has a serious major enemy in A'akar, but three of his enemies are dead and gone.
So, the actions of J'mpok make sense; he is a cornered Targ fighting and scheming for his life.
But, J'mpok' is not the only weird-looking thing going on.
The player siding with J'ula - this one can make sense, but it's much less logical than J'mpok's behaviour. For a Fed/Rom/Jem, there is nothing about J'ula that makes her worth siding with; as she correctly points out, this is at most the enemy of my enemy is my... co-belligerent. At best. The script the player has makes that quite clear.
For a Klingon however, it becomes a personal issue - the fate of the Empire is at stake, and frankly J'ula's claims about J'mpok are quite reasonable even before J'mpok's decision to try to kill them; J'ula's stretched out hand after they trip, could be enough of a gesture to tip the balance in J'ula's favour.
For A'akar, siding with J'mpok gets J'ula out of the way without having to take her down directly, and J'ula is a harder opponent to defeat than J'mpok, as his situation is failing while hers is rising. If his motivation is to rule the Empire himself, he needs to take them both out; changing sides to fake loyalty (and no doubt have some sort of countermeasures in the weapon to prevent misuse) while building up his own powerbase would be a viable option.
The last big "What the?" thing was Kagran and Shon's actions, as the confrontation just does not make sense; Koren's response should have been the attitude of all of them, as they all know the player well enough to think "hold on, lets stop and try to understand this situation, because this does not make sense". Although I'll grant I was really confused on what was happening by that point...
A very intelligent and well written write up.
I remember you from 'back in the day' good to see you're still kicking around.
J'mpok being evil goes all the way back to launch of the game, and the Path to 2409. So much so that people have been speculating, since the game came out, that J'mpok would go crazy one day. Its really not out of nowhere, unless you just haven't really paid attention to the last 10 years of STO's narrative and backstory.
Remember, this is the guy who
-Opposed Martok, due to Martok's willingness to cooperate with the Federation
-Actively led the Klingons to attack the Romulans, to take advantage of the Romulans weakened state after Hobus to capture Romulan space for the Klingon Empire.
-Called for, and then launched, an invasion against the Gorn.
-"Killed" Martok in such a secretive manner people were speculating about Martok being alive and captured for ages.
-Made the deal with the criminal Orion Syndicate, to get the syndicate to join the Empire.
-Withdrew the Empire from the Khitomer Accords
-Started the war between the Federation and Klingon Empire by having KDF ships attack the symbolically important Korvat system
-Verbatim said "Peace was the death of the Klingon Empire. Thankfully, it was a mistake that we caught in time."
Not to mention hsi action during the Hur'q crisis, his not even remotely subtle suggestion that he would try to kill Martok again if Martok ever got involved in politics, and a bunch of other stuff.
Boy, with all the dialog spewed out during Khitomer Discord - you'd think the above would have been absolutely critical to include in the episode to sway a player to think that J'mpok could be a bad guy. ANYONE but J'ula could have stated as much and it would have been pretty convincing - and supported J'ula's egotistical rants.
But the ball was dropped and we are left with a head scratching ending to the episode THAT THE ENTIRE FATE OF THE EMPIRE hinges on. Not like that's important to get right or anything.....
not especially, given that, while the federation prime directive prevents interference in the internal politics of other empires (and like every other part of the PD, ends up getting ignored when inconvenient anyway), the alliance is not the federation and it has no such restriction
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
edit: random thought - am I the only one who misses most of those dialogue clips that pop up in combat, because I'm too distracted by being in combat? Also they get kind of drowned out by all the zapping & explosions.
Nope - you aren't the only one.
And the worst part is - they contain important story information. Hello Cryptic - this is NOT a good use of the pop up tool. Especially when you fill the screen wall to wall with enemy ships. We are too busy to read that stuff let alone hear it over everything else!!
You should be able to read that in the NPC tab of the Chat. Personally, I turn down the sounds so I can hear the dialog so it is not loud. Still wish the audio was consistent though I have had to turn the volume from 30 to 40 in order to hear the same character or different characters. Will be nice when Cryptic gets an audio engineer.
Can't really agree. They took over 10 years of story telling, wadded it up and threw in the trash for the latest 'shiny'.
*SPOILERS!*
J'mpok just suddenly becomes an inept/corrupt leader because some Discovery newbie says he is? And we - regardless of what faction we are - just go along with it, umm, because? It's very poor writing. Reminds me of the old episode 'Divide et Impera' where our characters are forced into committing warcrimes despite ourselves. And that episode was removed from the game because it was so bad.
Give us reasons why we would suddenly have an immense change of heart here - there were no solid oneds given in the episode (The whole Ju'la was Aakar's unknowing pawn is garbage. She has been total evil up to this point. UGH). And don't say wait for the next episode to explain it - because WE CHANGE SIDES IN THIS EPISODE.
I know Cryptic has a contract to try and promote Discovery material, but this? SHEESH.
Oh please - EVERY Klingon Chancellor (even Gowron) was ultimately shown as dishonorable:
K'mpek: Was willing to throw Worf;s House to the Targs to cover the Duras family's dishonor at Khitomer. Why: Because Duras' family was powerful and somehow the truth would throw the Klingon Empire into Civil War,
Gawron: Was ultimately willing to nearly lose the Dominion War to humiliate Martok.
Martok: We didn't really get to see his tenure but per STO - he LOST a duel to the death with J'mpok - yet is STILL ALIVE...that in itself seems a contradiction and not very Klingon, so J'mpok's tenure start in a weird way.
IMO - The STO devs aren't doing anyhing that hasn't been done during TNG's or DS9's run WET the Klingon Empire. From TNG on they've been shown as using 'Honor' as a political tool while the leadership backstabs themselves all the time. Even Worf has ultimately come to realize this which is probably why diring TNG and DS9 he tried to go and live in the Empire a couple of times, yet ultimately returned to Starfleet and the Federation because he often found deep down, the'Klingon Way' wasn't his way BECAUSE unlike the majority of other Klingons he DID try to live Honorably and to him it wasn't just a word.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Oh please - EVERY Klingon Chancellor (even Gowron) was ultimately shown as dishonorable.
Sooo... we just throw out J'mpok for being dishonorable and replace him with J'ula who has proven herself to be even worse? That's kinda how this last episode ended which makes no sense at all and that makes it as bad as Divide et Impera when it comes to writing.
*BIG SPOILER* We all know Martok is going to be installed as the new Chancellor as soon as this little Klingon tiff is over with....hopefully ending with J'mpok and J'ula's perma-deaths.
I played the Klingon tutorial before the two new episodes. I saw nothing different about it other than the nicely updated visuals (minus the doors, the old Klingon doors should have stayed) and cut scenes. Nothing that hints at anything about J'mpok's turn. Yes, he's sometimes struck me as not being the best Klingon, especially when he sat out the Hur'q fight. But his turn wasn't just out of left field, it was out of the highest bleeders of the park. And none of the characters say anything about it when J'mpok gets the weapon. It's just, "J'mpok moved the weapon off the Lukara." I loudly asked, "What?!". I expected the same reaction from Martok or my character, but got nothing, which was weird.
And before you start, J'Ula's talk about J'mpok being a liar, etc, was just that, and no one there had any reason to believe her because she offered no evidence or even real accusations. She only made vague statements about corruption. Duras had more evidence against Mogh.
Also, did I miss something somewhere, or is Adet'pa somehow who I think she is?
> @whycryptic said: > I played the Klingon tutorial before the two new episodes. I saw nothing different about it other than the nicely updated visuals (minus the doors, the old Klingon doors should have stayed) and cut scenes. Nothing that hints at anything about J'mpok's turn. Yes, he's sometimes struck me as not being the best Klingon, especially when he sat out the Hur'q fight. But his turn wasn't just out of left field, it was out of the highest bleeders of the park. And none of the characters say anything about it when J'mpok gets the weapon. It's just, "J'mpok moved the weapon off the Lukara." I loudly asked, "What?!". I expected the same reaction from Martok or my character, but got nothing, which was weird. > > And before you start, J'Ula's talk about J'mpok being a liar, etc, was just that, and no one there had any reason to believe her because she offered no evidence or even real accusations. She only made vague statements about corruption. Duras had more evidence against Mogh. > > Also, did I miss something somewhere, or is Adet'pa somehow who I think she is?
OK for those have played Khitomer Discord, did you find at one point that your 4 crew were suddenly 250m away from you and not moving, while you had to fight hordes of enemies all alone? Because I did.
Almost. I managed to catch them when they started to begin getting pathfinding problems in the corridors below. Thankfully we got the rearrange button for that
Umm, rearrange button? (deer-in-headlights look)
Oh, probably answered but just to be sure; that lovely addition:
Oh please - EVERY Klingon Chancellor (even Gowron) was ultimately shown as dishonorable.
Sooo... we just throw out J'mpok for being dishonorable and replace him with J'ula who has proven herself to be even worse? That's kinda how this last episode ended which makes no sense at all and that makes it as bad as Divide et Impera when it comes to writing.
*BIG SPOILER* We all know Martok is going to be installed as the new Chancellor as soon as this little Klingon tiff is over with....hopefully ending with J'mpok and J'ula's perma-deaths.
I would not be so sure about that. With how the 2nd mission played out they make it look like J'Ula is to become a surprise "good" guy... or gal. Which in itself is something I could buy if it where not for the utter lack of tons of context; especially since she behaved like a total TRIBBLE (well; like she was established up to that point) just the mission/patrol chain before.
Also: So you saying a white man should steal the job option from a woman of (blue) color? Shame on you!
edit: it was kind of amusing listening to Martok badmouth Kagran's "fancy new Alliance ship"... while I was sitting there in my fancy new Alliance ship.
yep it's like martok is no fan of the alliance at all...
> @whycryptic said:
> I played the Klingon tutorial before the two new episodes. I saw nothing different about it other than the nicely updated visuals (minus the doors, the old Klingon doors should have stayed) and cut scenes. Nothing that hints at anything about J'mpok's turn. Yes, he's sometimes struck me as not being the best Klingon, especially when he sat out the Hur'q fight. But his turn wasn't just out of left field, it was out of the highest bleeders of the park. And none of the characters say anything about it when J'mpok gets the weapon. It's just, "J'mpok moved the weapon off the Lukara." I loudly asked, "What?!". I expected the same reaction from Martok or my character, but got nothing, which was weird.
>
> And before you start, J'Ula's talk about J'mpok being a liar, etc, was just that, and no one there had any reason to believe her because she offered no evidence or even real accusations. She only made vague statements about corruption. Duras had more evidence against Mogh.
>
> Also, did I miss something somewhere, or is Adet'pa somehow who I think she is?
> @whycryptic said:
> I played the Klingon tutorial before the two new episodes. I saw nothing different about it other than the nicely updated visuals (minus the doors, the old Klingon doors should have stayed) and cut scenes. Nothing that hints at anything about J'mpok's turn. Yes, he's sometimes struck me as not being the best Klingon, especially when he sat out the Hur'q fight. But his turn wasn't just out of left field, it was out of the highest bleeders of the park. And none of the characters say anything about it when J'mpok gets the weapon. It's just, "J'mpok moved the weapon off the Lukara." I loudly asked, "What?!". I expected the same reaction from Martok or my character, but got nothing, which was weird.
>
> And before you start, J'Ula's talk about J'mpok being a liar, etc, was just that, and no one there had any reason to believe her because she offered no evidence or even real accusations. She only made vague statements about corruption. Duras had more evidence against Mogh.
>
> Also, did I miss something somewhere, or is Adet'pa somehow who I think she is?
edit: it was kind of amusing listening to Martok badmouth Kagran's "fancy new Alliance ship"... while I was sitting there in my fancy new Alliance ship.
yep it's like martok is no fan of the alliance at all...
He's also not particularly impressed with what they did with the place at Alliance HQ. Poor nostalgic Martok, lol.
> @whycryptic said:
> I played the Klingon tutorial before the two new episodes. I saw nothing different about it other than the nicely updated visuals (minus the doors, the old Klingon doors should have stayed) and cut scenes. Nothing that hints at anything about J'mpok's turn. Yes, he's sometimes struck me as not being the best Klingon, especially when he sat out the Hur'q fight. But his turn wasn't just out of left field, it was out of the highest bleeders of the park. And none of the characters say anything about it when J'mpok gets the weapon. It's just, "J'mpok moved the weapon off the Lukara." I loudly asked, "What?!". I expected the same reaction from Martok or my character, but got nothing, which was weird.
>
> And before you start, J'Ula's talk about J'mpok being a liar, etc, was just that, and no one there had any reason to believe her because she offered no evidence or even real accusations. She only made vague statements about corruption. Duras had more evidence against Mogh.
>
> Also, did I miss something somewhere, or is Adet'pa somehow who I think she is?
Depends on who you think she is, really.
Landry
Same VA for both chars.
Yeah same actor but not same character Landry was mauled to death and while we didn't see the details there's no reason to assume she survived.
Also the voice for Adep'ta isn't the same as Landry (beyond the fact that they shared the actor) as Adep'ta has a weird accent I can't really place while Landry didn't.
anyone else have a problem with the Alliance blatantly interfering with internal Klingon politics?
The thought occurred to me. The "old" TNG Federation might not have done so, you might think...
Except perhaps they would have... J'ula attacked Alliance members as well. At that point, it is not just an internal Klingon matter anymore.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Yeah same actor but not same character Landry was mauled to death and while we didn't see the details there's no reason to assume she survived.
Also the voice for Adep'ta isn't the same as Landry (beyond the fact that they shared the actor) as Adep'ta has a weird accent I can't really place while Landry didn't.
The thought occurred to me. The "old" TNG Federation might not have done so, you might think...
Except perhaps they would have... J'ula attacked Alliance members as well. At that point, it is not just an internal Klingon matter anymore.
Well... the only faction they may not have any stake in the conflict is the Dominion. They actually suffered the least amout of damage if you look at everything.
List of damages:
Federation: One starbase, multiple starships infected by Aakar's virus
Klingon Empire: Civil War
Romulan Republic: Outpost attacked by Elachi after J'Ula opened a rift near them.
Dominion: 4 Jem'Hadar and maybe 1 Vorta lost in the attack on Kitomer.
So yea... While the Empire is in a state of Civil War, that war has ballooned out to pull in two other powers because of attacks on their respective territories. Hell... the Federation took the worst of it. A whole starbase lost, with god knows how many lives aboard it. The Romulan outpost survived the Mo'kai instigated Elachi attack.
I also played the patrol on both a Romulan and Dominion character today where you rescue the Klingon ships. For a Romulan, J'Ula basically preaches about Klingon supremacy and how the Romulans have to choose between siding with her or dying when the Klingons start taking the galaxy as they should. For a Dominion character, she tries to appeal to the Jem'hadar's sense of honor, and claiming that they would be valued more in the Klingon Empire than by their "false gods".
honestly the oddball "recruitment" attempt was for a Federation character. Ultimately, to me anyways, came across as "side with me now and I'll kill you later" because "war between the Federation and Empire is inevitable".
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The thought occurred to me. The "old" TNG Federation might not have done so, you might think...
Except perhaps they would have... J'ula attacked Alliance members as well. At that point, it is not just an internal Klingon matter anymore.
Well... the only faction they may not have any stake in the conflict is the Dominion. They actually suffered the least amout of damage if you look at everything.
List of damages:
Federation: One starbase, multiple starships infected by Aakar's virus
Klingon Empire: Civil War
Romulan Republic: Outpost attacked by Elachi after J'Ula opened a rift near them.
Dominion: 4 Jem'Hadar and maybe 1 Vorta lost in the attack on Kitomer.
So yea... While the Empire is in a state of Civil War, that war has ballooned out to pull in two other powers because of attacks on their respective territories. Hell... the Federation took the worst of it. A whole starbase lost, with god knows how many lives aboard it. The Romulan outpost survived the Mo'kai instigated Elachi attack.
I also played the patrol on both a Romulan and Dominion character today where you rescue the Klingon ships. For a Romulan, J'Ula basically preaches about Klingon supremacy and how the Romulans have to choose between siding with her or dying when the Klingons start taking the galaxy as they should. For a Dominion character, she tries to appeal to the Jem'hadar's sense of honor, and claiming that they would be valued more in the Klingon Empire than by their "false gods".
honestly the oddball "recruitment" attempt was for a Federation character. Ultimately, to me anyways, came across as "side with me now and I'll kill you later" because "war between the Federation and Empire is inevitable".
I have used the virus in the latest episodes for my characters RP as well. My ship wasn't infected, however several starships at the starbase we were staging at where. The starbase wasnt infected either.
End result, i lost several members of my senior crew. Several who have been with me for over 7 years.
The latest episodes have opened up a gold mine to use for your characters history. Especially if you dont put yourself into the "characters" persepctive but are another captain who may have heard about the attack. Was involved etc.
Superb story telling. I eagerly look forward to the next episodes as we are basically fugitives. Also J'mpok has been a bit "unstable" for a while.
While technically speaking not dragging the entire empire into the Hur'q war was the right decision, as the Empire itself was barely hanging on after the losses it suffered and needed to recover. But the Klingon "honour" code, not fighting side by side with your allies against a anicent foe really would not have done his popularity any good.
Also, I cringed in the ARG where he stated "As your Chancellor, I would never lie to you". Straight away i thought "J'mpok you idiot. You just handed J'ula a political and moral victory. She will use that line against you".
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,671Community Moderator
Also, I cringed in the ARG where he stated "As your Chancellor, I would never lie to you". Straight away i thought "J'mpok you idiot. You just handed J'ula a political and moral victory. She will use that line against you".
Well... he did. And she called him out on it. Quite easily in fact, because the very thing he lied about... was standing in the Council Chamber.
Martok.
The SECOND J'Ula said that, Martok became a threat to J'mpok. Even if Martok was siding with J'mpok against J'Ula... his very existance calls into question J'mpok's legitamacy as Chancellor. And thus... Kitomer happened.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Comments
After this, I'm inclined to agree.
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010
J'mpok has a major problem - he is running out of allies, while his enemies are building up. Especially with a Klingon player.
With a Klingon player having completed the missions up to this point, they are legit one of the greatest warriors in Klingon history, and very likely if they decided to have a shot at the Chancellor's seat, they are more than capable of taking it. And being a living legend who has literally repeated acts of Kahless against Fek'ihri and the Hur'q, and taken on and won against the Borg, Iconians, Undine, the Dominion and whoever else, they wield an enormous amount of respect and there would be many Klingons who would fight and die beside such a legendary warrior who has truly earnt the title of Dahar Master.
Then, there is his old one-eyed enemy Martok still walking, still fighting, and quite possibly still after his old position.
He's trading off the traditionalist power base that got him into power on the back of renewed conflict with the Federation, by allying with the Federation and the Romulans in this Alliance. (which on it's own has been enough to see Klingon warriors calling for blood before now)
If it wasn't for constant outside attackers - the Undine through to the Hur'q - he would be in a very compromised position. Because there has been outside threats he has been able to focus the Klingon war effort elsewhere, but between the logical - but cowardly - reluctance against the Hur'q and the aforementioned politics, he is in an increasingly hard spot.
And now, he has to deal with the blast from the past that is J'ula, who unlike the player, Martok and Worf, is after his head on a pike. And she brings with her A'akar, who himself is somewhat of a loose cannon.
So, for J'mpok, he has Martok, the player and J'ula all in a position where he could take them all out, with plausible deniability if he kills all the witnesses. Which is why he sides with A'akar to get the weapon - he still has a serious major enemy in A'akar, but three of his enemies are dead and gone.
So, the actions of J'mpok make sense; he is a cornered Targ fighting and scheming for his life.
But, J'mpok' is not the only weird-looking thing going on.
The player siding with J'ula - this one can make sense, but it's much less logical than J'mpok's behaviour. For a Fed/Rom/Jem, there is nothing about J'ula that makes her worth siding with; as she correctly points out, this is at most the enemy of my enemy is my... co-belligerent. At best. The script the player has makes that quite clear.
For a Klingon however, it becomes a personal issue - the fate of the Empire is at stake, and frankly J'ula's claims about J'mpok are quite reasonable even before J'mpok's decision to try to kill them; J'ula's stretched out hand after they trip, could be enough of a gesture to tip the balance in J'ula's favour.
For A'akar, siding with J'mpok gets J'ula out of the way without having to take her down directly, and J'ula is a harder opponent to defeat than J'mpok, as his situation is failing while hers is rising. If his motivation is to rule the Empire himself, he needs to take them both out; changing sides to fake loyalty (and no doubt have some sort of countermeasures in the weapon to prevent misuse) while building up his own powerbase would be a viable option.
The last big "What the?" thing was Kagran and Shon's actions, as the confrontation just does not make sense; Koren's response should have been the attitude of all of them, as they all know the player well enough to think "hold on, lets stop and try to understand this situation, because this does not make sense". Although I'll grant I was really confused on what was happening by that point...
Well who says "wait what?!" depends on the faction, it's Koren for KDF, Shon for FED, we got remember that the klingon war (the one that ended in 2410 that is) didn't end that long ago, so the flagship captain of the other faction would suspicious of the player who on was on the other side in that conflict. Besides Shon is also suspicious of J'mpok as well and want the player to surrender to stand trial (presumably he means a fair trial). When playing the mission as FED captain, both Koren and Kagran are out for your blood while Shon helps you.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
J'ula is a frenemy but she is still not to be trusted. This is apparent in the dialog for my character and I myself still am skeptical about her besides her exposing J'mpok, I do not what her angle is for having a temporary alliance with us to stop Aakar and bring J'mpok to justice but we are definitely not her pawn whether she believes that or not.
As for Koren we saw a hint that something was not right in the episode A Step Between The Stars where she claimed the Jenolan Dyson Sphere in the name of the Klingon Empire which led to a verbal altercation between the three galactic powers where she also threatened to not be part of the Alliance but then conceded in the episode after that called Surface Tension though that now seems like it was a ploy or it was real and she was biding her time to end the Alliance from within so it was real at the moment but was actually fake. She seems similar to L'Rell in Discovery.
I played through the mission and read out the dialog to immerse myself instead of prejudging it. But yes there were hints that J'mpok was questionable and corrupt in the Alliance storyline and the changes to the Klingon tutorial probably make it more obvious. At the same time that a lot of people did not see this coming can be a good thing but it also shows that they were not putting the storyline we have so far together in their mind and processing it, they forgot pieces of the storyline, their prejudgment was apparent about what they wanted the episode to be, and there are most likely other reasons. I would suggest replaying the pertinent episodes that involve Koren, the one involving Martok and J'mpok, as well as reading the Path to 2409 as well as any story blogs connected to this. As for Kagran, that was surprising to me and I did not see that coming but maybe there were hints that something was amiss with him during the Iconian War. I had no problem with Captain Shon's skepticism and it makes to tell a Federation character to run and hide for now because almost the whole Alliance is off to get you as soon as that is over then the player can get a fair trial.
Finally, Khitomer Discord also shows that the Klingon houses many times engage in cloak and dagger tactics against those they call their foes whether it be another house, the Federation, etc. We saw this with the House of Torg in the KDF storyline unless that has been changed with the removal of those patrol missions House Pursued and House on Fire from the now removed Vigilance story arc. Overall, I thought it was a long, good episode and was like watching a Star Trek episode on television. I would have enjoyed it more if I had not had to deal with three disconnects and crazy amounts of rubberbanding during the playthrough. Oh well! Cannot wait for more episodes! The plot thickens.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
And she's a villain with issues, so I think her opinion is obviously biased (of course the badguy who started a civil war says "the other guy sucks!"), and I give her comment no weight. Which means that...
Comes out of nowhere.
(also, maybe it's been too long since I played the previous J'ula missions, but did we see Aakar before? When I saw the promo pics, I thought it was Gowron, the previous bulgy-eyed psycho... /google... Aaah, I see. He got a model revamp. To look like Gowron. And those missions came out over a year ago. Ah, well. That's what I get for not replaying the Discovery arc at all beyond their initial release.)
edit: random thought - am I the only one who misses most of those dialogue clips that pop up in combat, because I'm too distracted by being in combat? Also they get kind of drowned out by all the zapping & explosions.
Nope - you aren't the only one.
And the worst part is - they contain important story information. Hello Cryptic - this is NOT a good use of the pop up tool. Especially when you fill the screen wall to wall with enemy ships. We are too busy to read that stuff let alone hear it over everything else!!
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
A very intelligent and well written write up.
I remember you from 'back in the day' good to see you're still kicking around.
Boy, with all the dialog spewed out during Khitomer Discord - you'd think the above would have been absolutely critical to include in the episode to sway a player to think that J'mpok could be a bad guy. ANYONE but J'ula could have stated as much and it would have been pretty convincing - and supported J'ula's egotistical rants.
But the ball was dropped and we are left with a head scratching ending to the episode THAT THE ENTIRE FATE OF THE EMPIRE hinges on. Not like that's important to get right or anything.....
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
You should be able to read that in the NPC tab of the Chat. Personally, I turn down the sounds so I can hear the dialog so it is not loud. Still wish the audio was consistent though I have had to turn the volume from 30 to 40 in order to hear the same character or different characters. Will be nice when Cryptic gets an audio engineer.
Oh please - EVERY Klingon Chancellor (even Gowron) was ultimately shown as dishonorable:
K'mpek: Was willing to throw Worf;s House to the Targs to cover the Duras family's dishonor at Khitomer. Why: Because Duras' family was powerful and somehow the truth would throw the Klingon Empire into Civil War,
Gawron: Was ultimately willing to nearly lose the Dominion War to humiliate Martok.
Martok: We didn't really get to see his tenure but per STO - he LOST a duel to the death with J'mpok - yet is STILL ALIVE...that in itself seems a contradiction and not very Klingon, so J'mpok's tenure start in a weird way.
IMO - The STO devs aren't doing anyhing that hasn't been done during TNG's or DS9's run WET the Klingon Empire. From TNG on they've been shown as using 'Honor' as a political tool while the leadership backstabs themselves all the time. Even Worf has ultimately come to realize this which is probably why diring TNG and DS9 he tried to go and live in the Empire a couple of times, yet ultimately returned to Starfleet and the Federation because he often found deep down, the'Klingon Way' wasn't his way BECAUSE unlike the majority of other Klingons he DID try to live Honorably and to him it wasn't just a word.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Sooo... we just throw out J'mpok for being dishonorable and replace him with J'ula who has proven herself to be even worse? That's kinda how this last episode ended which makes no sense at all and that makes it as bad as Divide et Impera when it comes to writing.
*BIG SPOILER* We all know Martok is going to be installed as the new Chancellor as soon as this little Klingon tiff is over with....hopefully ending with J'mpok and J'ula's perma-deaths.
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
And before you start, J'Ula's talk about J'mpok being a liar, etc, was just that, and no one there had any reason to believe her because she offered no evidence or even real accusations. She only made vague statements about corruption. Duras had more evidence against Mogh.
Also, did I miss something somewhere, or is Adet'pa somehow who I think she is?
> I played the Klingon tutorial before the two new episodes. I saw nothing different about it other than the nicely updated visuals (minus the doors, the old Klingon doors should have stayed) and cut scenes. Nothing that hints at anything about J'mpok's turn. Yes, he's sometimes struck me as not being the best Klingon, especially when he sat out the Hur'q fight. But his turn wasn't just out of left field, it was out of the highest bleeders of the park. And none of the characters say anything about it when J'mpok gets the weapon. It's just, "J'mpok moved the weapon off the Lukara." I loudly asked, "What?!". I expected the same reaction from Martok or my character, but got nothing, which was weird.
>
> And before you start, J'Ula's talk about J'mpok being a liar, etc, was just that, and no one there had any reason to believe her because she offered no evidence or even real accusations. She only made vague statements about corruption. Duras had more evidence against Mogh.
>
> Also, did I miss something somewhere, or is Adet'pa somehow who I think she is?
Depends on who you think she is, really.
Oh, probably answered but just to be sure; that lovely addition:
I would not be so sure about that. With how the 2nd mission played out they make it look like J'Ula is to become a surprise "good" guy... or gal. Which in itself is something I could buy if it where not for the utter lack of tons of context; especially since she behaved like a total TRIBBLE (well; like she was established up to that point) just the mission/patrol chain before.
Also: So you saying a white man should steal the job option from a woman of (blue) color? Shame on you!
yep it's like martok is no fan of the alliance at all...
Landry
Same VA for both chars.
He's also not particularly impressed with what they did with the place at Alliance HQ. Poor nostalgic Martok, lol.
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010
Yeah same actor but not same character Landry was mauled to death and while we didn't see the details there's no reason to assume she survived.
Also the voice for Adep'ta isn't the same as Landry (beyond the fact that they shared the actor) as Adep'ta has a weird accent I can't really place while Landry didn't.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Ellen_Landry
Memory Alpha page for Landry (as she's a canon character rather then a STO original).
The thought occurred to me. The "old" TNG Federation might not have done so, you might think...
Except perhaps they would have... J'ula attacked Alliance members as well. At that point, it is not just an internal Klingon matter anymore.
I like the accent. Cute gal, as well.
Klingon Waifu.
Well... the only faction they may not have any stake in the conflict is the Dominion. They actually suffered the least amout of damage if you look at everything.
List of damages:
So yea... While the Empire is in a state of Civil War, that war has ballooned out to pull in two other powers because of attacks on their respective territories. Hell... the Federation took the worst of it. A whole starbase lost, with god knows how many lives aboard it. The Romulan outpost survived the Mo'kai instigated Elachi attack.
I also played the patrol on both a Romulan and Dominion character today where you rescue the Klingon ships. For a Romulan, J'Ula basically preaches about Klingon supremacy and how the Romulans have to choose between siding with her or dying when the Klingons start taking the galaxy as they should. For a Dominion character, she tries to appeal to the Jem'hadar's sense of honor, and claiming that they would be valued more in the Klingon Empire than by their "false gods".
honestly the oddball "recruitment" attempt was for a Federation character. Ultimately, to me anyways, came across as "side with me now and I'll kill you later" because "war between the Federation and Empire is inevitable".
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I have used the virus in the latest episodes for my characters RP as well. My ship wasn't infected, however several starships at the starbase we were staging at where. The starbase wasnt infected either.
End result, i lost several members of my senior crew. Several who have been with me for over 7 years.
The latest episodes have opened up a gold mine to use for your characters history. Especially if you dont put yourself into the "characters" persepctive but are another captain who may have heard about the attack. Was involved etc.
Superb story telling. I eagerly look forward to the next episodes as we are basically fugitives. Also J'mpok has been a bit "unstable" for a while.
While technically speaking not dragging the entire empire into the Hur'q war was the right decision, as the Empire itself was barely hanging on after the losses it suffered and needed to recover. But the Klingon "honour" code, not fighting side by side with your allies against a anicent foe really would not have done his popularity any good.
Also, I cringed in the ARG where he stated "As your Chancellor, I would never lie to you". Straight away i thought "J'mpok you idiot. You just handed J'ula a political and moral victory. She will use that line against you".
Well... he did. And she called him out on it. Quite easily in fact, because the very thing he lied about... was standing in the Council Chamber.
Martok.
The SECOND J'Ula said that, Martok became a threat to J'mpok. Even if Martok was siding with J'mpok against J'Ula... his very existance calls into question J'mpok's legitamacy as Chancellor. And thus... Kitomer happened.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode