So why not make earning Dil a Account thing instead of a per character?? max earned Dil a day via average of 3 characters is 24k so as an example they should implement it so all Dil earned is in an account pool rather than a character and you can convert MAX limit 24k a day. Wouldn't that parce the exchange to lower the amount of Dil plus curb the mass farming driving it up??
Given that, IIRC, Neverwitner already has such a system in place, I wouldn't be surprised if they do so with STO at some point in the near future as a means to drop the dilex lower like the always on phoenix boxes, and this admiralty change, were done for.
Well wouldn't it be a good thing if that were the case where people can still "over time" get anything they wanted from the game, without making it a Job and just ENJOYING playing it for what it is?? seems kind of what games are suppose to be you know as in entertainment and not a job?
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Well wouldn't it be a good thing if that were the case where people can still "over time" get anything they wanted from the game, without making it a Job and just ENJOYING playing it for what it is?? seems kind of what games are suppose to be you know as in entertainment and not a job?
I find it ironic that you talk about not wanting to make it a job, when running a dozen+ characters for admiralty farming is the definition of making a game a job.
Whereas what Cryptic is doing is bringing down the price of zen so that you don't have to make it a job, and can get things over time far easier.
Wait aren't we both saying the same thing LOL? maybe I misread what you last said haha, but I agree I would rather the prices drop so that people can have fun playing instead of just going all out and turning the game in to a type of factory. or did I miss something??
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
@sovereign010
I don't mind the players who only have 12 characters getting their rotation's worth out of Dil, as long as each of those characters was created for a purpose and not simply to get "free Dil".
It's the ones who created 50 characters that caused Admiralty to be changed and as such, I have no sympathy or merciful intentions for those players.
Honestly, they deserve to have all their farmer characters deleted, because they inconvenienced the players who were not abusing the Admiralty system.
And you are exactly right, I've only got 7 characters and I cannot imagine putting in the amount of time each day to farm the limit.
I'm guessing for someone with 12, it would be much more intense.
Basically, after setting my Admiralty running, I just want to collect my Fleet Mark box of the day, then maybe do an queue related to Endeavor rewards if the random rotation of the day offered one compatible with the queues.
Quick, simple tasks that don't take up much of my time.
Rubberbanding is a subjective experience, just because it works for one person doesn't mean it works for everyone.
In Infected Space, one player asked via Team Chat if the game was lagging and four players (including myself) answered no.
But there have been times when CE practically shut down for me, sometimes even resulting in a disconnect while the other 9 players were unaffected.
So I'd say it's hard to 100% guarantee that the game will be lag, rubberband or disconnect free, just based on personal experience.
I assume it's because everyone has different ISPs and computer setups which affect this variables, nobody has all of them the same.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
@sovereign010
I don't mind the players who only have 12 characters getting their rotation's worth out of Dil, as long as each of those characters was created for a purpose and not simply to get "free Dil".
It's the ones who created 50 characters that caused Admiralty to be changed and as such, I have no sympathy or merciful intentions for those players.
Honestly, they deserve to have all their farmer characters deleted, because they inconvenienced the players who were not abusing the Admiralty system.
And you are exactly right, I've only got 7 characters and I cannot imagine putting in the amount of time each day to farm the limit.
I'm guessing for someone with 12, it would be much more intense.
Basically, after setting my Admiralty running, I just want to collect my Fleet Mark box of the day, then maybe do an queue related to Endeavor rewards if the random rotation of the day offered one compatible with the queues.
Quick, simple tasks that don't take up much of my time.
Rubberbanding is a subjective experience, just because it works for one person doesn't mean it works for everyone.
In Infected Space, one player asked via Team Chat if the game was lagging and four players (including myself) answered no.
But there have been times when CE practically shut down for me, sometimes even resulting in a disconnect while the other 9 players were unaffected.
So I'd say it's hard to 100% guarantee that the game will be lag, rubberband or disconnect free, just based on personal experience.
I assume it's because everyone has different ISPs and computer setups which affect this variables, nobody has all of them the same.
I have to agree here. Players can have all the characters they want, not that I can argue, I have roughly 17 of them. One is my Delta Rom, that I seriously need to work on since I'm still missing the account rewards there. Three are under level 10 Sci, Tac, and Engi toons, this is mainly to open kit boxes for each career, plus weapon pack for Mk II.
That leaves me 12 that I would cycle through. On a good day, when they all hit the 8k cap, that means I've made 104K dil. Some of these always hit the 8k mark, but I'm also working off the back stock on them from where I played them.
Am I going to feel a pinch from this change? Yes, on the personal dil side. On the fleet side, no. Since I no longer have to split my personal dil between fleet and other uses. The is compounded by the fact, I've never bought any C-store ship. Think over all I may have 40 ships for my rosters.
But, unlike the farmers that this will hurt the most. It'll just be a pinch to me, maybe a bee sting. Because my alt and doff routine was, and will continue to be, set it once, forget it for the day. So my dil supply is going to remain relatively stable, while the farmer's dil supply dwindles.
Most would argue here that this would cause dil prices to go up. Which, is untrue. If someone has something they actually place some value on, they're then not going to waste it thoughtlessly. With an overabundance of supply there's no need to care, just waste it. This is going to affect the Dilex prices. As people start valuing their dil more, it's means those selling zen are going to have to lower their price, since they can no longer rely on the abundance of supply to meet their inflated price.
The other thing that a few have mentioned here, that people are really overlooking, is that it will also affect Exchange prices. These are likely going to go up, due to the fact it's more difficult to get said items to sell. So, start expecting fluctuation here. However this doesn't matter, since the Exchange is the only real use we have for energy credits any how. Doesn't matter how many of these you have, as outside of the exchange, they're practically useless. I actually laugh at the space rich for thinking they have anything that's useful. But then I remain a smart consumer. Just because I have the money doesn't mean I'm going to buy whatever I want. Sure at times I might splurge on something. But, I'll focus on whether or not I need it, over wanting it. Just because something might be the meta, doesn't make it worth buying. The only items on the exchange that I can't argue the price of is the promo ships, those are rare to begin with. But then, I also on't need those ships, or anything they offer to play the game.
Maybe just a perception but, I haven't gotten a Dilitium reward from any Endeavor since this Admiralty change went into effect. I do all every day. You know that parameters for the Tables for random rewards can be adjusted for the type of item. Hence why we don't see 100 Marks Boxes as often as we see the 50s or the Crafting Materials or EC. Which, by the way, was the focus of the recent stacking changes.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
@sovereign010
I don't mind the players who only have 12 characters getting their rotation's worth out of Dil, as long as each of those characters was created for a purpose and not simply to get "free Dil".
It's the ones who created 50 characters that caused Admiralty to be changed and as such, I have no sympathy or merciful intentions for those players.
Honestly, they deserve to have all their farmer characters deleted, because they inconvenienced the players who were not abusing the Admiralty system.
No need to be evil. They paid for those slots. They also built up a fleet of admiralty ships somehow, which undoubtedly supported the game, and it had to be a large fleet to be able to get through admiralty so fast they could fill them up without thinking about what cards to play. They played by Cryptic's rules. Why in the world should they be punished for anything?
If you want to be mad at anyone, it should be Cryptic. They designed the rules and the system such that it could break down in ways they did not forsee. They are still the ones that have not provided us with a viable dil sink. And they made these changes.
> @ltminns said: > Maybe just a perception but, I haven't gotten a Dilitium reward from any Endeavor since this Admiralty change went into effect. I do all every day. You know that parameters for the Tables for random rewards can be adjusted for the type of item. Hence why we don't see 100 Marks Boxes as often as we see the 50s or the Crafting Materials or EC. Which, by the way, was the focus of the recent stacking changes.
I got two dil rewards yesterday, do probably just luck. Also have had lots of dil events and rewards from Admiralty non your missions the last couple of days, oddly.
@trennan
I do have 4 additional characters of level 11, but they exist for the specific purpose of storing inventory items I am not capable of using at this time or for keeping extra items for later use, just to avoid having those items dumped in the banks of my main characters.
But I’ve never used those 4 for anything beside storage, never for Doffing and they are ineligible for Admiralty due to their low level.
I did want to create two more “purpose” characters, but the specific criteria I had set for those characters was never granted by Cryptic and honestly, given that it hasn’t been done in 10 years of the game, I’ve given up hope of ever expecting those criteria to happen.
@foxrockssocks
I’m uncertain if they did pay for those slots or just used their Dil grinding techniques to get them for free, as in Dil>C-Points>Character slots. The more characters they created, the more Dil they earned, the more “free“ character slots they could buy.
I cannot admit to being impartial, but as a casual player who was greatly inconvenienced by those players misusing a system which got modified unfavorably as a direct response to those players, that’s why I think some kind of punishment/admonishment should have been handed out instead of ruining Admiralty.
Like say, deleting all their excess characters and reducing the number of character slots those players are allowed to have?
The world is full of people who “play by the rules”, but we still know they’re cheating.
I would compare it to a company staffed entirely of non-existent personnel drawing down paychecks, they’re taking money out of the company and transferring it all to the bank account of one employee.
In the real world, that gets someone fired and prosecuted when that fact is discovered....
And honestly, it’s not hard to build up a library of Admiralty ships, I’ve got over 100 of them and I never actively tried to collect any! Especially considering that any account unlocked ship=Admiralty card.
I am curious, is criticizing Admiralty for being a card game while extolling the virtues of DOFFing hypocritical?
They’re both similar game mechanics, just meeting stats with cards to pass assignments successfully.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I don't know why everybody is up and about because of this. You get now for every orange mission you complete 1/10 ect... 2.5k dillithium. Now do the math how many of those you can complete add 30k Bonus Dillihtium and 40k Fleet Dillithium to this. I think we are better of now as we were before the "nerf". I don't like changes of things which habe been around for quiet a while but this change does not seem to effect me negatively in anway.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
> @doctorstegi said: > ITS NOT A NERF... > > I don't know why everybody is up and about because of this. You get now for every orange mission you complete 1/10 ect... 2.5k dillithium. Now do the math how many of those you can complete add 30k Bonus Dillihtium and 40k Fleet Dillithium to this. I think we are better of now as we were before the "nerf". I don't like changes of things which habe been around for quiet a while but this change does not seem to effect me negatively in anway.
That is the event, which can give up to another 10k dil per day (my post up thread said the same thing and now says deleted).
Having said that, the bonus dil makes quite a difference and if you prioritise the missions that give dil payout or dil bonus, you aren’t that far off 8k per day. It is still the best way to make dil for minimum time investment.
The Double Bonus is for the Event. The Dilitium changes are permanent (until they come up with another idea).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
@sovereign010
I don't mind the players who only have 12 characters getting their rotation's worth out of Dil, as long as each of those characters was created for a purpose and not simply to get "free Dil".
It's the ones who created 50 characters that caused Admiralty to be changed and as such, I have no sympathy or merciful intentions for those players.
Honestly, they deserve to have all their farmer characters deleted, because they inconvenienced the players who were not abusing the Admiralty system.
No need to be evil. They paid for those slots. They also built up a fleet of admiralty ships somehow, which undoubtedly supported the game, and it had to be a large fleet to be able to get through admiralty so fast they could fill them up without thinking about what cards to play. They played by Cryptic's rules. Why in the world should they be punished for anything?
If you want to be mad at anyone, it should be Cryptic. They designed the rules and the system such that it could break down in ways they did not forsee. They are still the ones that have not provided us with a viable dil sink. And they made these changes.
Okay...so let's say that it's Cryptic's fault for not being able to forsee EVERYTHING that can go wrong with one of the their system is even a REMOTELY fair statement. You are complaining that a system is BROKEN and they are attempting to FIX THE BLOODY THING. Which going by the dilex is actually WORKING. Look, if you are complaining about these changes, it doesn't matter how many characters you have, you were one of the people who were abusing the system and part of the problem. Maybe not as much as somebody with 50 toons, but how many people actually did that? And how many were abusing the system with their 7 toon? Yeah the problem was not the rare .01%...it was all of you with your 7 toons abusing it and going well it's not MY fault...it's those other people.
Since I already stated I'd push 12 characters through this, I've already admitted to abusing it, and I just did this daily.
Those that would cycle through their alts to keep it going pretty much all the time. Well, when you look at it this way, it's more exploiting than abusing.
Looking at it this way, this change isn't a nerf. It's fixing an exploit, something all game companies do. One that I don't think Cryptic thought would happen when they first introduced the system.
As one of those that was abusing it, I can say, I don't have a problem with this. Granted I can also say, I haven't done this in almost a month. The first bit of the anniversary, sure I did the TFO and episodes on two chars. Then I switched to just logging in to do the Omega daily. Since I got that ship, I haven't even bothered logging in for the past week. This is because of event burnout, what's left of my sanity is more important than the game.
I don't know why everybody is up and about because of this. You get now for every orange mission you complete 1/10 ect... 2.5k dillithium. Now do the math how many of those you can complete add 30k Bonus Dillihtium and 40k Fleet Dillithium to this. I think we are better of now as we were before the "nerf". I don't like changes of things which habe been around for quiet a while but this change does not seem to effect me negatively in anway.
That is temporary as part of the Admiralty weekend event.
Every orange mission? Under the rewards section on mine it clearly states "This event does not have any rewards", and completing them it's the same story. I don't know where you got that 2.5k from, that is definitely false.
I did try switching Admiralty focus from merely guaranteeing success but aiming to maximise critical chance, I've found that once success is 100%, critical chance can only be raised by another 20-25% regardless of which other ships are assigned to available slots.
@westmetals
I’m not sure exactly how the changes are beneficial to other players, but for me personal, a bonus dil pool on minimal amounts earned isn’t enough of a motivation to keep doing Ferengi Admiralty, so I gave it up.
I didn’t collect large amounts of Dil per day, so it seems like a bonus % would just be a trickle for me personally.
Regardless, I’ve made my choice and am sticking with it, the choice to play less because I don’t like what they did with Admiralty.
If anyone thinks this change will get me out and playing the game more, it was never going to happen in the first place.
Many decisions made for the game pushed me significantly close to burnout and this is just one more getting me closer.
Honest candicacy time, nothing I did with my earned Dil had the slightest impact on Cryptic, the C-Store or the Dil Exchange, despite claims to the contrary.
I just kept storing it up because I knew I’d need to have a lot of this resource stockpiled, both for personal use and the upcoming T5 Fleet projects.
In the future, I can see this actually leading me towards becoming a Dil miser, refusing to requisition gear items or anything else dependent on Dil to acquire I was freely purchasing before because I knew KDF Admiralty was replenishing what I expended.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I hear a few bashing people with lots of characters. Most of these people spend money to get those 50 characters and to hear other players say they hope for their characters to be deleted? Its sutpid, they enjoyed the farming game. This change is complete BS. These people are now likely to leave the game and in the end the game will be worse for it. A few things should not be changed and this is one of them.
I think the problem really started when they introduced the Ferrengi admiralty, with another 30k reward. It basically doubled the amount of dilithium admiralty gave away
They should have just set one of the two (Klingon or Ferrengi) to the fleet voucher and left the other alone.
@foxrockssocks
I’m uncertain if they did pay for those slots or just used their Dil grinding techniques to get them for free, as in Dil>C-Points>Character slots. The more characters they created, the more Dil they earned, the more “free“ character slots they could buy.
I cannot admit to being impartial, but as a casual player who was greatly inconvenienced by those players misusing a system which got modified unfavorably as a direct response to those players, that’s why I think some kind of punishment/admonishment should have been handed out instead of ruining Admiralty.
Like say, deleting all their excess characters and reducing the number of character slots those players are allowed to have?
The world is full of people who “play by the rules”, but we still know they’re cheating.
I would compare it to a company staffed entirely of non-existent personnel drawing down paychecks, they’re taking money out of the company and transferring it all to the bank account of one employee.
In the real world, that gets someone fired and prosecuted when that fact is discovered....
And honestly, it’s not hard to build up a library of Admiralty ships, I’ve got over 100 of them and I never actively tried to collect any! Especially considering that any account unlocked ship=Admiralty card.
I am curious, is criticizing Admiralty for being a card game while extolling the virtues of DOFFing hypocritical?
They’re both similar game mechanics, just meeting stats with cards to pass assignments successfully.
It isn't relevant if they bought zen directly or not. That's the whole point of the dil exchange.
You're still blaming people for ruining something they did not ruin. This is not the fault of anyone but Cryptic if you have to place blame. They modified the system, despite people crying out for years for an actual new dilithium sink. If you don't like this change, then by all means complain about it, but don't blame people that simply used the system, blame the lack of enough options to spend dilithium on.
If the rules allow for problems, you don't punish people who were playing by the rules, you fix the rules. To punish people who played entirely by the rules is utterly vile. It is why ex post facto laws are explicitly unconstitutional in the US. Your example is not playing by the rules if they get prosecuted, because you can't prosecute people who didn't break the rules (unless your government is corrupt.)
And you apparently have a few more admiralty cards than I do, but I doubt you got that many without spending zen on a good proportion of them, I certainly didn't.
@sovereign010
I don't mind the players who only have 12 characters getting their rotation's worth out of Dil, as long as each of those characters was created for a purpose and not simply to get "free Dil".
It's the ones who created 50 characters that caused Admiralty to be changed and as such, I have no sympathy or merciful intentions for those players.
Honestly, they deserve to have all their farmer characters deleted, because they inconvenienced the players who were not abusing the Admiralty system.
No need to be evil. They paid for those slots. They also built up a fleet of admiralty ships somehow, which undoubtedly supported the game, and it had to be a large fleet to be able to get through admiralty so fast they could fill them up without thinking about what cards to play. They played by Cryptic's rules. Why in the world should they be punished for anything?
If you want to be mad at anyone, it should be Cryptic. They designed the rules and the system such that it could break down in ways they did not forsee. They are still the ones that have not provided us with a viable dil sink. And they made these changes.
Okay...so let's say that it's Cryptic's fault for not being able to forsee EVERYTHING that can go wrong with one of the their system is even a REMOTELY fair statement. You are complaining that a system is BROKEN and they are attempting to FIX THE BLOODY THING. Which going by the dilex is actually WORKING. Look, if you are complaining about these changes, it doesn't matter how many characters you have, you were one of the people who were abusing the system and part of the problem. Maybe not as much as somebody with 50 toons, but how many people actually did that? And how many were abusing the system with their 7 toon? Yeah the problem was not the rare .01%...it was all of you with your 7 toons abusing it and going well it's not MY fault...it's those other people.
It isn't a fair statement, I think that is obvious. The point was that if anyone deserves ire, it is Cryptic, not that I think anyone actually deserves ire. It is simply not fair to place ire on people who used the system as it was designed. You really don't know how every system can be used when you design it, but they did design it to potentially give out 60k dilithium every 10 days, to every character on an account. Certainly they did not expect that to be common, but if they didn't consider the potential of that possibility then they did TRIBBLE up there. It's probably fair to assume they didn't imagine it would be widespread enough to be a problem, yet I think they also say it wasn't widespread.
Now, I'm not complaining about anything but peoples misunderstanding of various concepts and demonizing people who used the system as it was designed. I don't know why anyone thinks I am against this change to dilithium payout. I think the Ferengi tour change is interesting as I've already gotten to see the effects of it.
What I don't like about the change is that KDF tour of duty is suddenly pointless for everyone in lack of fleet, while they also did nothing to make the Romulan tour actually useful. I actually prioritized Romulan tours for a little while because I never bothered to do the very simple math to realize storing up dilithium to buy phoenix boxes instead is a much better solution for upgrading. Now I don't even touch it unless I need to get it back to 0/10.
So while they might have fixed the dilithium supply somewhat, admiralty as a whole is arguably more broken than before. I really don't care if the KDF tour gives dilithium in one form or not, I just want it to be useful for everyone. I don't see why they couldn't make it a choice box of fleet vouchers or something else.
However the system was never abused. It was used exactly as it was designed. It was designed with a flaw hanging overhead. That flaw is not that you could get so much dilithium, but that you can't use it all. The better solution remains more options, and more reason, to do something with dilithium.
Consider, when I say a choice box of fleet vouchers or something else, I have a really hard time thinking of options. Rep vouchers? Those would quickly become irrelevant and rep gear would be free from dilithium cost in short order, and many people who aren't interested in changing gear wouldn't get value from them. Phoenix boxes have been suggested, and that is an option, but those already exist as a use for dilithium, and of course vastly overshadow the Romulan tour. Skill points you already get from Fed tours, and those aren't that valuable after a while. So what else is there that makes sense to give away every 10 days?
Bottom line, I'm fine with the change (aside from the problems of fleet vouchers), have never stated otherwise, and fully understand why they wanted to do it, but it is very much a halfassed change.
Well wouldn't it be a good thing if that were the case where people can still "over time" get anything they wanted from the game, without making it a Job and just ENJOYING playing it for what it is?? seems kind of what games are suppose to be you know as in entertainment and not a job?
I find it ironic that you talk about not wanting to make it a job, when running a dozen+ characters for admiralty farming is the definition of making a game a job.
Whereas what Cryptic is doing is bringing down the price of zen so that you don't have to make it a job, and can get things over time far easier.
If Cryptic really wanted to bring down the price of Zen all they need to do is lower the exchange cap, instead of messing around with the admiralty system.
A few folks in here need to knock it off with the flaming and put the flamethrowers away, and I strongly suggest they do it now.
A couple of things. First, Cryptic has long since established the rule that people are entitled to refine 8k dilithium per toon per day up to the maximum amount of toons. Last I checked was roughly 55 toons. 55 toons times 8k per day is 440k dilithium per day. Yes that is alot, but if someone is willing to put in the work to create those toons, get them to a level they can farm, and cycle through 55 toons to get the rewards, then per Cryptic's rules they are entitled to that 440k dilithium. That goes for folks only cycling 1 toon per day, 7 toons, 28 like me if I choose, or any other number of toons. It's their account and their toons and none of the rest of you have any business trying to dictate to them what they can and can't do with their own toons in this instance.
Second, a chief problem with the dilithium exchange that has existed for some time is there aren't enough effected sinks for dilithium to remove excess, and there is also a flood of supply. The exchange is driven by supply and demand. If supply goes up but demand stays the same, prices go up because dilithium isn't as valuable since it's much easier to come by. If demand goes up but supply stays the same, prices go up because there is a lack of supply. If supply goes down but demand stays largely the same then prices will drop because dilithium becomes more valuable. If supply stays the same but demand goes down, prices will also come down since there isn't as many needing dilithium. Phoenix boxes help to remove excess from the game at a steady rate because they let folks get access to old event rewards and also phoenix upgrades. While they help once a person has gotten all the old rewards they want and/or care about, value diminishes on the boxes a bit. Once a person maxes out their upgrades and has upgraded everything they want/need, phoenix boxes lose their appeal. The good thing with phoenix boxes though is that folks will always need gear upgrades typically at some point or another, thus they have perpetual value, however they're not enough on their own. Fleet holdings also pull dilithium out, but are only effective until fleets max out the holdings. Maintaining those holdings keeps a bit of dilithium out but not as much as building it up did. Borticus even mentions the need for more effective sinks which you can see in the FCT list when you scroll down to the "dilithium cap increase" entry on the list. This is something Cryptic has been pondering for awhile now. They want people to be able to get dilithium, but they also need to make sure there are healthy balances to keep that dilithium in check. So far the checks haven't been as effective.
Third, you are still getting the 30k dilithium from KDF admiralty, it's just not all at once like it was before and comes as bonus on what dilithium you already earn now. So you're not losing out there. For the fleet dilithium you're actually getting all of that dilithium up front now and a net gain of 10k of the stuff you didn't have previously before. I will say I agree with folks we should have had the option of reputation dilithium instead of purely just fleet, and I have even raised this concern to them. With that in mind for folks in fleets that have been complaining about lack of dilithium, or the occasional madman that tries to level a fleet solo (got one of those guys in my armada) this is a godsend for that. This gives folks an easy way to generate dilithium for their fleet. I have also raised the concern folks have had about buying fleet gear with these vouchers. Until then if even 10 people in a fleet fire off those vouchers, that's 400k dilithium, which will go a long way towards maxing out a fleet if you haven't already. I'm pestering them with the concerns folks are seeing and letting them know what the general complaints/praises are that I see in the positive/negative.
Fourth, there are other ways to farm dilithium than purely admiralty. your ability to generate dilithium has not suffered, only one source has been altered. You can still hit the Dyson ground BZ, do the dailies, tag 2 dinos, and if you're not capped out, doing a quick TFO like Crystalline will cap you out, or you can hit the dilithium mines. If you were someone who only did admiralty for dilithium, yeah it sucks, but you can still get dilithium, the difference is now it won't all be from one source.
Lastly, I will remind folks, everyone is entitled to their opinions on the matter in the positive or the negative, and are free to voice those opinions provided it is done civilly. Not everyone is going to like this change and not everyone is going to hate this change. You are going to encounter people who disagree with you on this one. If/when it becomes apparent that you can't change the other person's mind, then perhaps it is best to agree to disagree and move on. Busting out the flamethrowers will not help and will only make things worse, and potentially result in moderation.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
@sovereign010
I don't mind the players who only have 12 characters getting their rotation's worth out of Dil, as long as each of those characters was created for a purpose and not simply to get "free Dil".
It's the ones who created 50 characters that caused Admiralty to be changed and as such, I have no sympathy or merciful intentions for those players.
Honestly, they deserve to have all their farmer characters deleted, because they inconvenienced the players who were not abusing the Admiralty system.
This statement of yours is as absurd as it gets, honestly. Deleting someone's alt, a toon in which ppl may have sunken hundreds of RL dollars, is a definite no-no. And even though you can invariably wait for someoe to tell you you own nothing, and it's all just pixels, Cryptic would surely get sued over it, if they ever did -- which they won't. Like they don't even delete accounts/toons for inactivity. And for good reasons.
You're still blaming people for ruining something they did not ruin. This is not the fault of anyone but Cryptic if you have to place blame. They modified the system, despite people crying out for years for an actual new dilithium sink. If you don't like this change, then by all means complain about it, but don't blame people that simply used the system, blame the lack of enough options to spend dilithium on.
Cryptic rarely thinks things thru properly, and then does 'backsies'. Remember when leveling up your toon (from the 17x faster era) would net you a rather sizeable Dilithium reward at the the end of each spec point bar filled? They then started accusing ppl of abusing the system. But folks weren't, of course: it's simply that Cryptic hadn't really thought the matter thru properly, and then renaged on the deal. Same with Admiralty. These 30k rewards were not a typo of sort, and ppl weren't abusing anything. Cryptic themselves had designed the system, it was WAI for years, and then suddenly got nerfed -- understandably leading to much irritation.
Instead, as you say, in lieu of just cutting ppl's 'paycheck' by 30k a week, they should have come up with a real/useful Dilithium sink (like Player Housing, or whatever floats your boat). Then Dilithium would have gotten extracted from the system as well, but at least you would have gotten something out of it, without feeling robbed.
A couple of things. First, Cryptic has long since established the rule that people are entitled to refine 8k dilithium per toon per day up to the maximum amount of toons. Last I checked was roughly 55 toons. 55 toons times 8k per day is 440k dilithium per day. Yes that is alot, but if someone is willing to put in the work to create those toons, get them to a level they can farm, and cycle through 55 toons to get the rewards, then per Cryptic's rules they are entitled to that 440k dilithium. That goes for folks only cycling 1 toon per day, 7 toons, 28 like me if I choose, or any other number of toons. It's their account and their toons and none of the rest of you have any business trying to dictate to them what they can and can't do with their own toons in this instance.
You make great sense, so far.
Third, you are still getting the 30k dilithium from KDF admiralty, it's just not all at once like it was before
I think you got your Tours mixed up here, though. It's the Ferengi Tour that gives you the 30k vouchers, and KDF gets you the Fleet Dilithium.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,673Community Moderator
Or even just place an account-based time limit on dil/zen conversion. Like for example (just to stick a number on it) restricting conversions to 500 Zen per week per player.
That makes no sense whatsoever, because it works BOTH ways.
BOTH WAYS!
You can't restrict buying Zen with Dilithium without restricting how much Dilithium you can buy with Zen.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Well wouldn't it be a good thing if that were the case where people can still "over time" get anything they wanted from the game, without making it a Job and just ENJOYING playing it for what it is?? seems kind of what games are suppose to be you know as in entertainment and not a job?
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Wait aren't we both saying the same thing LOL? maybe I misread what you last said haha, but I agree I would rather the prices drop so that people can have fun playing instead of just going all out and turning the game in to a type of factory. or did I miss something??
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
I don't mind the players who only have 12 characters getting their rotation's worth out of Dil, as long as each of those characters was created for a purpose and not simply to get "free Dil".
It's the ones who created 50 characters that caused Admiralty to be changed and as such, I have no sympathy or merciful intentions for those players.
Honestly, they deserve to have all their farmer characters deleted, because they inconvenienced the players who were not abusing the Admiralty system.
And you are exactly right, I've only got 7 characters and I cannot imagine putting in the amount of time each day to farm the limit.
I'm guessing for someone with 12, it would be much more intense.
Basically, after setting my Admiralty running, I just want to collect my Fleet Mark box of the day, then maybe do an queue related to Endeavor rewards if the random rotation of the day offered one compatible with the queues.
Quick, simple tasks that don't take up much of my time.
Rubberbanding is a subjective experience, just because it works for one person doesn't mean it works for everyone.
In Infected Space, one player asked via Team Chat if the game was lagging and four players (including myself) answered no.
But there have been times when CE practically shut down for me, sometimes even resulting in a disconnect while the other 9 players were unaffected.
So I'd say it's hard to 100% guarantee that the game will be lag, rubberband or disconnect free, just based on personal experience.
I assume it's because everyone has different ISPs and computer setups which affect this variables, nobody has all of them the same.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I have to agree here. Players can have all the characters they want, not that I can argue, I have roughly 17 of them. One is my Delta Rom, that I seriously need to work on since I'm still missing the account rewards there. Three are under level 10 Sci, Tac, and Engi toons, this is mainly to open kit boxes for each career, plus weapon pack for Mk II.
That leaves me 12 that I would cycle through. On a good day, when they all hit the 8k cap, that means I've made 104K dil. Some of these always hit the 8k mark, but I'm also working off the back stock on them from where I played them.
Am I going to feel a pinch from this change? Yes, on the personal dil side. On the fleet side, no. Since I no longer have to split my personal dil between fleet and other uses. The is compounded by the fact, I've never bought any C-store ship. Think over all I may have 40 ships for my rosters.
But, unlike the farmers that this will hurt the most. It'll just be a pinch to me, maybe a bee sting. Because my alt and doff routine was, and will continue to be, set it once, forget it for the day. So my dil supply is going to remain relatively stable, while the farmer's dil supply dwindles.
Most would argue here that this would cause dil prices to go up. Which, is untrue. If someone has something they actually place some value on, they're then not going to waste it thoughtlessly. With an overabundance of supply there's no need to care, just waste it. This is going to affect the Dilex prices. As people start valuing their dil more, it's means those selling zen are going to have to lower their price, since they can no longer rely on the abundance of supply to meet their inflated price.
The other thing that a few have mentioned here, that people are really overlooking, is that it will also affect Exchange prices. These are likely going to go up, due to the fact it's more difficult to get said items to sell. So, start expecting fluctuation here. However this doesn't matter, since the Exchange is the only real use we have for energy credits any how. Doesn't matter how many of these you have, as outside of the exchange, they're practically useless. I actually laugh at the space rich for thinking they have anything that's useful. But then I remain a smart consumer. Just because I have the money doesn't mean I'm going to buy whatever I want. Sure at times I might splurge on something. But, I'll focus on whether or not I need it, over wanting it. Just because something might be the meta, doesn't make it worth buying. The only items on the exchange that I can't argue the price of is the promo ships, those are rare to begin with. But then, I also on't need those ships, or anything they offer to play the game.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
No need to be evil. They paid for those slots. They also built up a fleet of admiralty ships somehow, which undoubtedly supported the game, and it had to be a large fleet to be able to get through admiralty so fast they could fill them up without thinking about what cards to play. They played by Cryptic's rules. Why in the world should they be punished for anything?
If you want to be mad at anyone, it should be Cryptic. They designed the rules and the system such that it could break down in ways they did not forsee. They are still the ones that have not provided us with a viable dil sink. And they made these changes.
> Maybe just a perception but, I haven't gotten a Dilitium reward from any Endeavor since this Admiralty change went into effect. I do all every day. You know that parameters for the Tables for random rewards can be adjusted for the type of item. Hence why we don't see 100 Marks Boxes as often as we see the 50s or the Crafting Materials or EC. Which, by the way, was the focus of the recent stacking changes.
I got two dil rewards yesterday, do probably just luck. Also have had lots of dil events and rewards from Admiralty non your missions the last couple of days, oddly.
I do have 4 additional characters of level 11, but they exist for the specific purpose of storing inventory items I am not capable of using at this time or for keeping extra items for later use, just to avoid having those items dumped in the banks of my main characters.
But I’ve never used those 4 for anything beside storage, never for Doffing and they are ineligible for Admiralty due to their low level.
I did want to create two more “purpose” characters, but the specific criteria I had set for those characters was never granted by Cryptic and honestly, given that it hasn’t been done in 10 years of the game, I’ve given up hope of ever expecting those criteria to happen.
@foxrockssocks
I’m uncertain if they did pay for those slots or just used their Dil grinding techniques to get them for free, as in Dil>C-Points>Character slots. The more characters they created, the more Dil they earned, the more “free“ character slots they could buy.
I cannot admit to being impartial, but as a casual player who was greatly inconvenienced by those players misusing a system which got modified unfavorably as a direct response to those players, that’s why I think some kind of punishment/admonishment should have been handed out instead of ruining Admiralty.
Like say, deleting all their excess characters and reducing the number of character slots those players are allowed to have?
The world is full of people who “play by the rules”, but we still know they’re cheating.
I would compare it to a company staffed entirely of non-existent personnel drawing down paychecks, they’re taking money out of the company and transferring it all to the bank account of one employee.
In the real world, that gets someone fired and prosecuted when that fact is discovered....
And honestly, it’s not hard to build up a library of Admiralty ships, I’ve got over 100 of them and I never actively tried to collect any! Especially considering that any account unlocked ship=Admiralty card.
I am curious, is criticizing Admiralty for being a card game while extolling the virtues of DOFFing hypocritical?
They’re both similar game mechanics, just meeting stats with cards to pass assignments successfully.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I don't know why everybody is up and about because of this. You get now for every orange mission you complete 1/10 ect... 2.5k dillithium. Now do the math how many of those you can complete add 30k Bonus Dillihtium and 40k Fleet Dillithium to this. I think we are better of now as we were before the "nerf". I don't like changes of things which habe been around for quiet a while but this change does not seem to effect me negatively in anway.
> ITS NOT A NERF...
>
> I don't know why everybody is up and about because of this. You get now for every orange mission you complete 1/10 ect... 2.5k dillithium. Now do the math how many of those you can complete add 30k Bonus Dillihtium and 40k Fleet Dillithium to this. I think we are better of now as we were before the "nerf". I don't like changes of things which habe been around for quiet a while but this change does not seem to effect me negatively in anway.
That is the event, which can give up to another 10k dil per day (my post up thread said the same thing and now says deleted).
Having said that, the bonus dil makes quite a difference and if you prioritise the missions that give dil payout or dil bonus, you aren’t that far off 8k per day. It is still the best way to make dil for minimum time investment.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Since I already stated I'd push 12 characters through this, I've already admitted to abusing it, and I just did this daily.
Those that would cycle through their alts to keep it going pretty much all the time. Well, when you look at it this way, it's more exploiting than abusing.
Looking at it this way, this change isn't a nerf. It's fixing an exploit, something all game companies do. One that I don't think Cryptic thought would happen when they first introduced the system.
As one of those that was abusing it, I can say, I don't have a problem with this. Granted I can also say, I haven't done this in almost a month. The first bit of the anniversary, sure I did the TFO and episodes on two chars. Then I switched to just logging in to do the Omega daily. Since I got that ship, I haven't even bothered logging in for the past week. This is because of event burnout, what's left of my sanity is more important than the game.
I did try switching Admiralty focus from merely guaranteeing success but aiming to maximise critical chance, I've found that once success is 100%, critical chance can only be raised by another 20-25% regardless of which other ships are assigned to available slots.
I’m not sure exactly how the changes are beneficial to other players, but for me personal, a bonus dil pool on minimal amounts earned isn’t enough of a motivation to keep doing Ferengi Admiralty, so I gave it up.
I didn’t collect large amounts of Dil per day, so it seems like a bonus % would just be a trickle for me personally.
Regardless, I’ve made my choice and am sticking with it, the choice to play less because I don’t like what they did with Admiralty.
If anyone thinks this change will get me out and playing the game more, it was never going to happen in the first place.
Many decisions made for the game pushed me significantly close to burnout and this is just one more getting me closer.
Honest candicacy time, nothing I did with my earned Dil had the slightest impact on Cryptic, the C-Store or the Dil Exchange, despite claims to the contrary.
I just kept storing it up because I knew I’d need to have a lot of this resource stockpiled, both for personal use and the upcoming T5 Fleet projects.
In the future, I can see this actually leading me towards becoming a Dil miser, refusing to requisition gear items or anything else dependent on Dil to acquire I was freely purchasing before because I knew KDF Admiralty was replenishing what I expended.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
They should have just set one of the two (Klingon or Ferrengi) to the fleet voucher and left the other alone.
It isn't relevant if they bought zen directly or not. That's the whole point of the dil exchange.
You're still blaming people for ruining something they did not ruin. This is not the fault of anyone but Cryptic if you have to place blame. They modified the system, despite people crying out for years for an actual new dilithium sink. If you don't like this change, then by all means complain about it, but don't blame people that simply used the system, blame the lack of enough options to spend dilithium on.
If the rules allow for problems, you don't punish people who were playing by the rules, you fix the rules. To punish people who played entirely by the rules is utterly vile. It is why ex post facto laws are explicitly unconstitutional in the US. Your example is not playing by the rules if they get prosecuted, because you can't prosecute people who didn't break the rules (unless your government is corrupt.)
And you apparently have a few more admiralty cards than I do, but I doubt you got that many without spending zen on a good proportion of them, I certainly didn't.
It isn't a fair statement, I think that is obvious. The point was that if anyone deserves ire, it is Cryptic, not that I think anyone actually deserves ire. It is simply not fair to place ire on people who used the system as it was designed. You really don't know how every system can be used when you design it, but they did design it to potentially give out 60k dilithium every 10 days, to every character on an account. Certainly they did not expect that to be common, but if they didn't consider the potential of that possibility then they did TRIBBLE up there. It's probably fair to assume they didn't imagine it would be widespread enough to be a problem, yet I think they also say it wasn't widespread.
Now, I'm not complaining about anything but peoples misunderstanding of various concepts and demonizing people who used the system as it was designed. I don't know why anyone thinks I am against this change to dilithium payout. I think the Ferengi tour change is interesting as I've already gotten to see the effects of it.
What I don't like about the change is that KDF tour of duty is suddenly pointless for everyone in lack of fleet, while they also did nothing to make the Romulan tour actually useful. I actually prioritized Romulan tours for a little while because I never bothered to do the very simple math to realize storing up dilithium to buy phoenix boxes instead is a much better solution for upgrading. Now I don't even touch it unless I need to get it back to 0/10.
So while they might have fixed the dilithium supply somewhat, admiralty as a whole is arguably more broken than before. I really don't care if the KDF tour gives dilithium in one form or not, I just want it to be useful for everyone. I don't see why they couldn't make it a choice box of fleet vouchers or something else.
However the system was never abused. It was used exactly as it was designed. It was designed with a flaw hanging overhead. That flaw is not that you could get so much dilithium, but that you can't use it all. The better solution remains more options, and more reason, to do something with dilithium.
Consider, when I say a choice box of fleet vouchers or something else, I have a really hard time thinking of options. Rep vouchers? Those would quickly become irrelevant and rep gear would be free from dilithium cost in short order, and many people who aren't interested in changing gear wouldn't get value from them. Phoenix boxes have been suggested, and that is an option, but those already exist as a use for dilithium, and of course vastly overshadow the Romulan tour. Skill points you already get from Fed tours, and those aren't that valuable after a while. So what else is there that makes sense to give away every 10 days?
Bottom line, I'm fine with the change (aside from the problems of fleet vouchers), have never stated otherwise, and fully understand why they wanted to do it, but it is very much a halfassed change.
If Cryptic really wanted to bring down the price of Zen all they need to do is lower the exchange cap, instead of messing around with the admiralty system.
A couple of things. First, Cryptic has long since established the rule that people are entitled to refine 8k dilithium per toon per day up to the maximum amount of toons. Last I checked was roughly 55 toons. 55 toons times 8k per day is 440k dilithium per day. Yes that is alot, but if someone is willing to put in the work to create those toons, get them to a level they can farm, and cycle through 55 toons to get the rewards, then per Cryptic's rules they are entitled to that 440k dilithium. That goes for folks only cycling 1 toon per day, 7 toons, 28 like me if I choose, or any other number of toons. It's their account and their toons and none of the rest of you have any business trying to dictate to them what they can and can't do with their own toons in this instance.
Second, a chief problem with the dilithium exchange that has existed for some time is there aren't enough effected sinks for dilithium to remove excess, and there is also a flood of supply. The exchange is driven by supply and demand. If supply goes up but demand stays the same, prices go up because dilithium isn't as valuable since it's much easier to come by. If demand goes up but supply stays the same, prices go up because there is a lack of supply. If supply goes down but demand stays largely the same then prices will drop because dilithium becomes more valuable. If supply stays the same but demand goes down, prices will also come down since there isn't as many needing dilithium. Phoenix boxes help to remove excess from the game at a steady rate because they let folks get access to old event rewards and also phoenix upgrades. While they help once a person has gotten all the old rewards they want and/or care about, value diminishes on the boxes a bit. Once a person maxes out their upgrades and has upgraded everything they want/need, phoenix boxes lose their appeal. The good thing with phoenix boxes though is that folks will always need gear upgrades typically at some point or another, thus they have perpetual value, however they're not enough on their own. Fleet holdings also pull dilithium out, but are only effective until fleets max out the holdings. Maintaining those holdings keeps a bit of dilithium out but not as much as building it up did. Borticus even mentions the need for more effective sinks which you can see in the FCT list when you scroll down to the "dilithium cap increase" entry on the list. This is something Cryptic has been pondering for awhile now. They want people to be able to get dilithium, but they also need to make sure there are healthy balances to keep that dilithium in check. So far the checks haven't been as effective.
Third, you are still getting the 30k dilithium from KDF admiralty, it's just not all at once like it was before and comes as bonus on what dilithium you already earn now. So you're not losing out there. For the fleet dilithium you're actually getting all of that dilithium up front now and a net gain of 10k of the stuff you didn't have previously before. I will say I agree with folks we should have had the option of reputation dilithium instead of purely just fleet, and I have even raised this concern to them. With that in mind for folks in fleets that have been complaining about lack of dilithium, or the occasional madman that tries to level a fleet solo (got one of those guys in my armada) this is a godsend for that. This gives folks an easy way to generate dilithium for their fleet. I have also raised the concern folks have had about buying fleet gear with these vouchers. Until then if even 10 people in a fleet fire off those vouchers, that's 400k dilithium, which will go a long way towards maxing out a fleet if you haven't already. I'm pestering them with the concerns folks are seeing and letting them know what the general complaints/praises are that I see in the positive/negative.
Fourth, there are other ways to farm dilithium than purely admiralty. your ability to generate dilithium has not suffered, only one source has been altered. You can still hit the Dyson ground BZ, do the dailies, tag 2 dinos, and if you're not capped out, doing a quick TFO like Crystalline will cap you out, or you can hit the dilithium mines. If you were someone who only did admiralty for dilithium, yeah it sucks, but you can still get dilithium, the difference is now it won't all be from one source.
Lastly, I will remind folks, everyone is entitled to their opinions on the matter in the positive or the negative, and are free to voice those opinions provided it is done civilly. Not everyone is going to like this change and not everyone is going to hate this change. You are going to encounter people who disagree with you on this one. If/when it becomes apparent that you can't change the other person's mind, then perhaps it is best to agree to disagree and move on. Busting out the flamethrowers will not help and will only make things worse, and potentially result in moderation.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
This statement of yours is as absurd as it gets, honestly. Deleting someone's alt, a toon in which ppl may have sunken hundreds of RL dollars, is a definite no-no. And even though you can invariably wait for someoe to tell you you own nothing, and it's all just pixels, Cryptic would surely get sued over it, if they ever did -- which they won't. Like they don't even delete accounts/toons for inactivity. And for good reasons.
Cryptic rarely thinks things thru properly, and then does 'backsies'. Remember when leveling up your toon (from the 17x faster era) would net you a rather sizeable Dilithium reward at the the end of each spec point bar filled? They then started accusing ppl of abusing the system. But folks weren't, of course: it's simply that Cryptic hadn't really thought the matter thru properly, and then renaged on the deal. Same with Admiralty. These 30k rewards were not a typo of sort, and ppl weren't abusing anything. Cryptic themselves had designed the system, it was WAI for years, and then suddenly got nerfed -- understandably leading to much irritation.
Instead, as you say, in lieu of just cutting ppl's 'paycheck' by 30k a week, they should have come up with a real/useful Dilithium sink (like Player Housing, or whatever floats your boat). Then Dilithium would have gotten extracted from the system as well, but at least you would have gotten something out of it, without feeling robbed.
You make great sense, so far.
I think you got your Tours mixed up here, though. It's the Ferengi Tour that gives you the 30k vouchers, and KDF gets you the Fleet Dilithium.
That makes no sense whatsoever, because it works BOTH ways.
BOTH WAYS!
You can't restrict buying Zen with Dilithium without restricting how much Dilithium you can buy with Zen.
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colored text = mod mode