@tilarta well casual players get punished because some people need to overdo it with 50+ toons.
cryptic think it hurts the Wales but only end up the casuals.
I’m aboard long enough mate.
- In October the 14th 2014 Cryptic felt it prudent to move this title away from a casual game to a more dedicated one by multiplying the effort it takes to progress our characters by like 10. As if it would not be enough they expanded it for fleets later on with the disastrous and perverse Colony Holding.
- The Admiralty System was introduced to give every player in this title a better chance cope with the increased demands.
- Judging from the miserable suffering I was forced to witness in public PvE the past half-decade players did not make use of the Admiralty system in order to follow any progression curves this game lays out (lol or to even consider any fleet donations) but they used it simply to avoid any sort of money support for STO in order to get thier hero ships cheap and then play them as bad as possible.
- This adjustment is now made to get the priorities for the players straighter.
Everybody will get “hurt” over it. Not just you. Business as usual for those dedicated enough. For those who aren't... well sorry.
While overall.. this change does hurt me.. the fleet part of it I actually like.
I respect your opinion, and you know that more then anyone.. I respect what you have done for our fleet. It flat out wouldn't exist if not for your efforts, and I respect that big time. For players like me though, the Fleet System always made me feel like a leech. I pretty much needed all my Dilithium, it was my lifeline.. it got me my upgrades and gear, I used to to get Zen, turned it into EC to continue to 'chase the meta,' I needed every precious pink rock I could get. Then I had my fleet that also needed it and I constantly had to choose between being able to better my character(s) or help my fleet and that's a bad situation to be in.
I like the fact that now with just a few daily clicks of Admiralty I can help my fleet with vouchers. Yeah, it kinda sucks that this happens now that our holdings are maxed, but our armada fleets can always use the help. I would have preferred if they left one of them 30k ore and made the 2nd one Fleet.. but it's cool overall. I already have planned to make adjustments and while it might slow me down a bit, I'll be ok overall. I wish I had millions of banked DIlithium, but I don't.
Just saying.. not everyone that didn't/couldn't help with the fleet was trying to leech.. outside of spending money there was a time when I just simply had to pick one or the other and couldn't do both. I like that fact that the change will make it so that newer players don't have to face this situation going forward, because for those that also love their fleets.. it sucked.
Players should not have to choose between helping themselves and bettering their fleet. Now, they no longer have to.
Hey mate, when I rage write the stuff I did earlier I'm always afraid that you or Shim or Liz or some of the others from our comunity read it and feel spoken to.
Im not angry with any of our players who did not play as much as I do/did and could not contribute as much as I chose to. Its ok. I made my desission and simply wanted to have it all unlocked to give us all the poo there is to get without worrying.
I'm angry at Cryptic for designing such unfair systems in the first place. Same for the whole DPS for money concept. It always sees to it that players who care about this game the most get to bleed the most.
What they are doing now is one of the few times as of late where it finaly seems to change. Now everybody may bleed just a little bit... and best part is bleeding is not optional like fleets or DPS. Zen store hero ship shineys are the trigger everybody shoots at and its the best one they could pull because it now gets fair for everybody. The casual crybaby and the hardcore nerds alike.
P.S.
The next fleet holding is on you Arbitrator of the Watch!
P.P.S
JK mate, I have enough Dil to pay us two more holdings if I have to by now. Even at thier meanest, Cryptic never beats me and they have the habbit to miss one bug and loophole after the other over the years.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
> @foxrockssocks said: > (Quote) > > > Yes, dil exchange prices were already dropping before the change was even implemented. No supply change whatsoever at the time, and the sharpness of the change also belies the lack of supply effect so far. What did change was the demand for dilithium. People are buying it up while it is cheap. Likely many of those people will reseed the market with it later to get their zen back. > > The real supply change to dilithium won't be seen for some time yet, and that will be where the market stabilizes. I'd give it at least a month before we really see how it settles. > > Now to the video again. There is NO hyperinflation in STO. Period. The supply of diltihium and making it easier to get over time has decreased the value of dilithium, yes, and thus inflated the price of zen via dilithium. It did not hyperinflate, though. That term has zero place in this discussion or even in that video, because it simply isn't hyperinflation. We did not start at 100:1 one day and end up at 500:1 a few days later. > > The major point that video misses, though is the nonsense of equating generating currency within a game with printing currency. The problem with this is very simple. Currency needs to be generated because there is no normal circulation. You don't put your money in a working bank in a game. It is identical to putting it under your mattress when its sitting their in your account. No one else has any access to it via loans or investments or whatever. You don't need to spend money regularly to buy food, fuel, pay taxes, or so on. You can't get a loan or tax refund or any other thing. > > The only way to get money is to do generate it, or to generate an item and sell it for money. Did you catch that? That's important. > > Lets set up a simple example here. $100 competing for 100 cans of beans. That suggests the price should be $1 per can. If a dumb government then devalues its currency by printing more money, now you have $200 competing for that same 100 cans of beans then the price should be $2 a can right? Of course, and that's inflation, and could be called hyperinflation if it happens fast enough and at a magnitude large enough. > > But there's a flip side to that. If you at the same time have another factory open up to produce cans of beans, and you now have 200 cans of beans competing for $200 what happens? Yes the same $1 can of beans despite all the extra currency, because the supply of beans also increased. > > This is what happens in games. Not only are you generating currency, but you're also generating items of value. This is where inflation gets kept in check, and the law of supply and demand work to fix prices. This is why the price of ships doesn't constantly go up and up and up in STO, because despite all the currency generation, people are also generating new ships. It fluctuates and varies based on how in demand or out of supply a ship is, but as long as people can sell newly generated box ships, the price is kept in check, and that video completely ignores that side of things. Supply of currency is important, but so is supply of items.
Beleive what you will. If zen doesnt go into the market as fast as dil, it creates an imbalance. There was far more dil being generated than zen being purchased for it.
Because players were printing tons of dilithium by farming it. That is what the video is talking about that you are clearly ignoring in your post. Inflation was out of control end of story
Farming dilithium is still generating dilithium and that is still like printing excess money. Your just arguing for the sake of trying to insist your right and nerfing admiralty was wrong at this point.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Personally I really don't care if Cryptic nerfs the Ferengi admirality. I will just decline on doing the missions that are the 1 out of 10 now. I will look somewhere else to make up my dil.
Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
Serious nerf - me not like
On the other hand - maybe this will save the dilithium-Zen exchange from crash… maybe.
The Ferengi one isn't really a Nerf unless ALL you do is play the Admiralty and nothing else. You'll STILL eventually get the 30K dil - just not as a direct reward; you need to play OTHER content that rewards Dil, and it's then rewarded out as Bonus Dil over time. It's just a change, not a nerf.
The Klingon one is a nerf, but as others have said, it'll help Fleets in that not many like to use Dilithium for Fleet projects - but now you get 50,000 as a Fleet Voucher, and most will do an Admiralty Campaign at least once in leveling it to Lvl10.
IF you even need the dill. Fully built fleet. WTF am i gonna use a fleet dill voucher for. Sweet TRIBBLE All, is what
60k for both before to 40k Fleet Dilitium means loss of 20k. Did you forget about the 30k Ferengi Dilitium Bonus Credit? You get the 30k as you earn another 30k.
That Dilithium Credit does not give you physical items, the section on your Bonus Bar (Salvage, Marks, Fleet Credits, XP, etc.) is noted with the 30k credit.
Which you only get piecemeal from that pool as a bonus when you get dil from a mission or such. So instead of get the 30k instantly like we used, now we have to grind out more to get it. Apparently it comes as 25% bonus dil when you get a dil reward. So, let's say I get an award for 100 dil, I will now get 125 dil instead and that 30k pool goes down by 25. So we have to grind more to get what we should have gotten before the change. So, there is nothing good about it.
@tilarta well casual players get punished because some people need to overdo it with 50+ toons.
cryptic think it hurts the Wales but only end up the casuals.
I’m aboard long enough mate.
- In October the 14th 2014 Cryptic felt it prudent to move this title away from a casual game to a more dedicated one by multiplying the effort it takes to progress our characters by like 10. As if it would not be enough they expanded it for fleets later on with the disastrous and perverse Colony Holding.
- The Admiralty System was introduced to give every player in this title a better chance cope with the increased demands.
- Judging from the miserable suffering I was forced to witness in public PvE the past half-decade players did not make use of the Admiralty system in order to follow any progression curves this game lays out (lol or to even consider any fleet donations) but they used it simply to avoid any sort of money support for STO in order to get thier hero ships cheap and then play them as bad as possible.
- This adjustment is now made to get the priorities for the players straighter.
Everybody will get “hurt” over it. Not just you. Business as usual for those dedicated enough. For those who aren't... well sorry.
Yep. Yep. I agree with your position 100%.
Frankly they should remove or reduce several other areas with dilithium is overly given relative to the 5 & 50 amounts given for DOFFing.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I didn’t say I forgot how to play the game, I’ve been doing that every day.
I just don’t remember precisely what I did to get Dil before Admiralty, since those are the tasks i gave up doing.
All I remember is it wasted time, a lot of time, which is why I stopped doing it.
From my perspective, it’s like Cryptic wants me to start committing more time then I have available, just for the sake of their player metrics.
But they can’t have it, so they made an impractical request which I am duly ignoring.
I’ve never been one of these obssessed resource farmers and never will be, I’m a casual player because it suits me to be so.
I’ve tried that in other games and it just leads me to hating those games so much I quit playing them.
And as Star Trek Online is the only good mmo that exists, I can’t afford to build up that level of resentment for this game.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
@tilarta well casual players get punished because some people need to overdo it with 50+ toons.
cryptic think it hurts the Wales but only end up the casuals.
I’m aboard long enough mate.
- In October the 14th 2014 Cryptic felt it prudent to move this title away from a casual game to a more dedicated one by multiplying the effort it takes to progress our characters by like 10. As if it would not be enough they expanded it for fleets later on with the disastrous and perverse Colony Holding.
- The Admiralty System was introduced to give every player in this title a better chance cope with the increased demands.
- Judging from the miserable suffering I was forced to witness in public PvE the past half-decade players did not make use of the Admiralty system in order to follow any progression curves this game lays out (lol or to even consider any fleet donations) but they used it simply to avoid any sort of money support for STO in order to get thier hero ships cheap and then play them as bad as possible.
- This adjustment is now made to get the priorities for the players straighter.
Everybody will get “hurt” over it. Not just you. Business as usual for those dedicated enough. For those who aren't... well sorry.
Yep. Yep. I agree with your position 100%.
Frankly they should remove or reduce several other areas with dilithium is overly given relative to the 5 & 50 amounts given for DOFFing.
Plus with doffing there's no way to pass up assignments. What I see here, and would make a decent change. expand each Admiralty to 5 slots each, this covers 20 slots the same as Doffing, with 3 to 5 extras. Then put them on the same 4 hour reset rotation as doffing and take away pass tokens. They'll have to increase the chance for a ToD to popup with this.
But for four hours, those 8 to 10 missions are all you get. Of course this might work better on a 2 hour reset rotation. But the missions are still going to run 15 minutes to 20 hours in length. With this, people can still use the 1 ship/shuttle trick to pass up missions.
Like the 50+ dil reward assignments, this will keep the higher payout assignment a bit more on the uncommon or rare side, as they should be. It also means you either focus on the Admiralty you want at 5 at time. However playes now have the expanded option of filling out the other 15 assignments in the 3 remaining.
This could also work on the current 3 missions per. But they'd have to limit the number of extras missions you get within the reset time. With it set like this, I would set the number of extra missions between 18 and 42. This would work the with aforementioned 5 missions per. The extras would just work in multiples of 5, say 25-45 extra missions.
As for dil gain it'self. If you're willing to put in the work, you get 390k unrefined dil from hitting T5 reputations. This is not including recruitment pack, if you have them, nor all the dil you've gathered to get to that point. I did this on a new character and it's currently sitting over 600k unrefined dil. Just on the reputation payout alone, at 8K per day, 390k dil takess roughly 49 days to refine.
Remember, the Winter Event Doff Assignments give a generous (for Doffing) 125 Dilitium.
And in line with these changes to Admiralty, they did reduce the amount of GPL rewarded by assignments in the Ferengi Campaign by a tremendous factor. Not implying that they could use that tactic for other rewards as well. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Remember, the Winter Event Doff Assignments give a generous for Doffing) 125 Dilitium.
And in line with these changes to Admiralty, they did reduce the amount of GPL rewarded by assignments in the Ferengi Campaign by a tremendous factor. Not implying that they could use that tactic for other rewards as well. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more.
They could take the GPL rewards out of the Ferengi adm and I would never miss them. If I find I need GPL, not that I have to worry over that at my current 5 or 6 million worth of it. I'd just roll up on the dabo table, toss 1 mil ot 2 EC at it, and get more in one spin than I could in 10 years of getting it from the ferengi adm.
Ironically, I was actually collecting the GPL from those assignments to use for the Trade for Entertainment Provision DOFF assignments, so it had a purpose.
But not enough merit to keep me working on the Ferengi Admiralty chains without a direct Dil payout for conpleting TOD 10.
It was more a side benefit, as in, I've got to do this Admiralty, so why not pick up some GPL while progressing the TOD?
Reputations I just lost interest in, for the sheer amount of boredom that resulted from doing the same queue every day for 2 months (or 1 month if using a sponsorship token).
And you only get to keep the Dil that results if you don't spend it on the gear items, from memory, it's gone almost instantly as soon as you requisition one of the set items.
That's why I only do advance the reputations to the tiers necessary to unlock the Traits or rewards I'm interested in acquiring, all others are ignored because taking all of them to T5/T6 is just too time consuming.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Ironically, I was actually collecting the GPL from those assignments to use for the Trade for Entertainment Provision DOFF assignments, so it had a purpose.
But not enough merit to keep me working on the Ferengi Admiralty chains without a direct Dil payout for conpleting TOD 10.
It was more a side benefit, as in, I've got to do this Admiralty, so why not pick up some GPL while progressing the TOD?
Reputations I just lost interest in, for the sheer amount of boredom that resulted from doing the same queue every day for 2 months (or 1 month if using a sponsorship token).
And you only get to keep the Dil that results if you don't spend it on the gear items, from memory, it's gone almost instantly as soon as you requisition one of the set items.
That's why I only do advance the reputations to the tiers necessary to unlock the Traits or rewards I'm interested in acquiring, all others are ignored because taking all of them to T5/T6 is just too time consuming.
Yeah, this is why I have logged in since I got the the anniversary ship. With all the events, and still have to farm what was needed for all that. Burnout has been achieved. Looking at the fact the events aren't going to slow down, it my be lohlunat before I'm able to actually play the game again. Well, more than log in, do the vent daily and log back out.
> @foxrockssocks said:
> (Quote)
>
>
> Yes, dil exchange prices were already dropping before the change was even implemented. No supply change whatsoever at the time, and the sharpness of the change also belies the lack of supply effect so far. What did change was the demand for dilithium. People are buying it up while it is cheap. Likely many of those people will reseed the market with it later to get their zen back.
>
> The real supply change to dilithium won't be seen for some time yet, and that will be where the market stabilizes. I'd give it at least a month before we really see how it settles.
>
> Now to the video again. There is NO hyperinflation in STO. Period. The supply of diltihium and making it easier to get over time has decreased the value of dilithium, yes, and thus inflated the price of zen via dilithium. It did not hyperinflate, though. That term has zero place in this discussion or even in that video, because it simply isn't hyperinflation. We did not start at 100:1 one day and end up at 500:1 a few days later.
>
> The major point that video misses, though is the nonsense of equating generating currency within a game with printing currency. The problem with this is very simple. Currency needs to be generated because there is no normal circulation. You don't put your money in a working bank in a game. It is identical to putting it under your mattress when its sitting their in your account. No one else has any access to it via loans or investments or whatever. You don't need to spend money regularly to buy food, fuel, pay taxes, or so on. You can't get a loan or tax refund or any other thing.
>
> The only way to get money is to do generate it, or to generate an item and sell it for money. Did you catch that? That's important.
>
> Lets set up a simple example here. $100 competing for 100 cans of beans. That suggests the price should be $1 per can. If a dumb government then devalues its currency by printing more money, now you have $200 competing for that same 100 cans of beans then the price should be $2 a can right? Of course, and that's inflation, and could be called hyperinflation if it happens fast enough and at a magnitude large enough.
>
> But there's a flip side to that. If you at the same time have another factory open up to produce cans of beans, and you now have 200 cans of beans competing for $200 what happens? Yes the same $1 can of beans despite all the extra currency, because the supply of beans also increased.
>
> This is what happens in games. Not only are you generating currency, but you're also generating items of value. This is where inflation gets kept in check, and the law of supply and demand work to fix prices. This is why the price of ships doesn't constantly go up and up and up in STO, because despite all the currency generation, people are also generating new ships. It fluctuates and varies based on how in demand or out of supply a ship is, but as long as people can sell newly generated box ships, the price is kept in check, and that video completely ignores that side of things. Supply of currency is important, but so is supply of items.
Beleive what you will. If zen doesnt go into the market as fast as dil, it creates an imbalance. There was far more dil being generated than zen being purchased for it.
Because players were printing tons of dilithium by farming it. That is what the video is talking about that you are clearly ignoring in your post. Inflation was out of control end of story
Farming dilithium is still generating dilithium and that is still like printing excess money. Your just arguing for the sake of trying to insist your right and nerfing admiralty was wrong at this point.
Inflation is not the same as supply and demand issues. Furthermore, the dil market was usually fairly stable. Despite that weird instance where it jumped from 420ish to 500 in a few days (I'm sure that wasn't at all caused by someone doing market manipulation, nope not at all), it remains stable. Dilithium was low valued, yes, because of the supply, yes, but out of control inflation? Categorically false.
And I'm so glad you know what I'm thinking, because I sure didn't know I was thinking that. I thought my opinion on the matter was quite different, but now you've told me I'm wrong about what my own opinion is, so I can rest easier knowing someone out there can read my mind and inform me about my wrongthink.
Hmm when the change happened I thought of it as a non issue.
Instead of complaining to deaf ears I simply thought hmm. I need 8k per day for one toon. with my daily doffing and admiralty I get X amount, my one stf per day I get Y amount and all I need to do is Z amount of patrols to make 9k.
Problem solved.
Now players whom have more then one account they do this on, the system wasn't originally made for players to find loopholes this large in like this, but the company seemed to have turned a blind eye to it, because they probably didn't think it would get this out of hand so complaining about it only makes the company object even more to it and will probably end with you guys receiving a daily account cap. If they decide it to be Yx1 or Yx3 or YxZ amount per day it will happen it is inevitable. So I would assume it would be best to hang back and do this for now and hope the next shoe doesn't drop in which your farms will be set back for months if not totally obliterated.
> @foxrockssocks said:
> (Quote)
>
>
> Yes, dil exchange prices were already dropping before the change was even implemented. No supply change whatsoever at the time, and the sharpness of the change also belies the lack of supply effect so far. What did change was the demand for dilithium. People are buying it up while it is cheap. Likely many of those people will reseed the market with it later to get their zen back.
>
> The real supply change to dilithium won't be seen for some time yet, and that will be where the market stabilizes. I'd give it at least a month before we really see how it settles.
>
> Now to the video again. There is NO hyperinflation in STO. Period. The supply of diltihium and making it easier to get over time has decreased the value of dilithium, yes, and thus inflated the price of zen via dilithium. It did not hyperinflate, though. That term has zero place in this discussion or even in that video, because it simply isn't hyperinflation. We did not start at 100:1 one day and end up at 500:1 a few days later.
>
> The major point that video misses, though is the nonsense of equating generating currency within a game with printing currency. The problem with this is very simple. Currency needs to be generated because there is no normal circulation. You don't put your money in a working bank in a game. It is identical to putting it under your mattress when its sitting their in your account. No one else has any access to it via loans or investments or whatever. You don't need to spend money regularly to buy food, fuel, pay taxes, or so on. You can't get a loan or tax refund or any other thing.
>
> The only way to get money is to do generate it, or to generate an item and sell it for money. Did you catch that? That's important.
>
> Lets set up a simple example here. $100 competing for 100 cans of beans. That suggests the price should be $1 per can. If a dumb government then devalues its currency by printing more money, now you have $200 competing for that same 100 cans of beans then the price should be $2 a can right? Of course, and that's inflation, and could be called hyperinflation if it happens fast enough and at a magnitude large enough.
>
> But there's a flip side to that. If you at the same time have another factory open up to produce cans of beans, and you now have 200 cans of beans competing for $200 what happens? Yes the same $1 can of beans despite all the extra currency, because the supply of beans also increased.
>
> This is what happens in games. Not only are you generating currency, but you're also generating items of value. This is where inflation gets kept in check, and the law of supply and demand work to fix prices. This is why the price of ships doesn't constantly go up and up and up in STO, because despite all the currency generation, people are also generating new ships. It fluctuates and varies based on how in demand or out of supply a ship is, but as long as people can sell newly generated box ships, the price is kept in check, and that video completely ignores that side of things. Supply of currency is important, but so is supply of items.
Beleive what you will. If zen doesnt go into the market as fast as dil, it creates an imbalance. There was far more dil being generated than zen being purchased for it.
Because players were printing tons of dilithium by farming it. That is what the video is talking about that you are clearly ignoring in your post. Inflation was out of control end of story
Farming dilithium is still generating dilithium and that is still like printing excess money. Your just arguing for the sake of trying to insist your right and nerfing admiralty was wrong at this point.
Inflation is not the same as supply and demand issues. Furthermore, the dil market was usually fairly stable. Despite that weird instance where it jumped from 420ish to 500 in a few days (I'm sure that wasn't at all caused by someone doing market manipulation, nope not at all), it remains stable. Dilithium was low valued, yes, because of the supply, yes, but out of control inflation? Categorically false.
Dude...inflation IS A SUPPLY AND DEMAND ISSUE. OMG, the lack of understanding of even the BASICS of economics is quite frightening. This should be something you learned in high school at the very least. I learned this when I was in ELEMENTARY school. And what is considered out of control inflation is a subjective matter...i.e. an OPINION. You can't have false opinions.
Did you forget that part where inflation gets measured through an index, because inflation is a general increase in prices over time, not just the fluctuating price of a can of beans as the bean factories flood? Inflation doesn't just measure one product price, it is a wide net of things that measures inflation to sort out the supply/demand issues that can arise from natural disasters, temporary shortages, and the like.
Here we are solely talking about one thing. Dilithium:zen pricing. Inflation can't even be properly measured with a single thing, it is just supply and demand.
And no out of control inflation is not subjective, it literally means "uncontrolled" which has objectively not been true even if we wrongly use the term inflation for dilithium:zen pricing, and more than that in context it implies hyperinflation which is also definitely not true. I suppose next time the cop pulls you over for driving out of control when you were objectively staying between the lines and within the speed limit, you'll be fine with the ticket?
Plus with doffing there's no way to pass up assignments. What I see here, and would make a decent change. expand each Admiralty to 5 slots each, this covers 20 slots the same as Doffing, with 3 to 5 extras. Then put them on the same 4 hour reset rotation as doffing and take away pass tokens. They'll have to increase the chance for a ToD to popup with this.
But for four hours, those 8 to 10 missions are all you get. Of course this might work better on a 2 hour reset rotation. But the missions are still going to run 15 minutes to 20 hours in length. With this, people can still use the 1 ship/shuttle trick to pass up missions.
Like the 50+ dil reward assignments, this will keep the higher payout assignment a bit more on the uncommon or rare side, as they should be. It also means you either focus on the Admiralty you want at 5 at time. However playes now have the expanded option of filling out the other 15 assignments in the 3 remaining.
This could also work on the current 3 missions per. But they'd have to limit the number of extras missions you get within the reset time. With it set like this, I would set the number of extra missions between 18 and 42. This would work the with aforementioned 5 missions per. The extras would just work in multiples of 5, say 25-45 extra missions.
As for dil gain it'self. If you're willing to put in the work, you get 390k unrefined dil from hitting T5 reputations. This is not including recruitment pack, if you have them, nor all the dil you've gathered to get to that point. I did this on a new character and it's currently sitting over 600k unrefined dil. Just on the reputation payout alone, at 8K per day, 390k dil takess roughly 49 days to refine.
Very nice break down. You a lot more into it than I did because I figured there was no chance they would actually do it. Anyway, your effort is appreciated at least by me.
If you are looking for an excellent PvE fleet consider: Omega Combat Division today.
Former member of the Cryptic Family & FriendsTesting Team. Sadly, one day, it simply vanished - without a word or trace...
@trennan
Events are probably the only time I log in and play consistently, to earn the reward unlock.
And it seems like the timetable is accelerating, when I finished the Anniversary ship one, it felt like it didn't take them long to roll out the next one!
Not long enough to give me a break that is.....
Burnout set in fairly early on this one, by the time I'd done 16 daily runs, I said to myself, I can't take another 2 days of this and just paid with money to buy out and conplete.
And if the event queue is The Breach, then I buy out immediately, because I'm so burnt out on that one I don't want to play it at all!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Remember, the Winter Event Doff Assignments give a generous (for Doffing) 125 Dilitium.
And in line with these changes to Admiralty, they did reduce the amount of GPL rewarded by assignments in the Ferengi Campaign by a tremendous factor. Not implying that they could use that tactic for other rewards as well. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more.
GPL never works for, hasn't for a very long time. I've put in ticket after ticket and still no resolution. I mean, to me, it's not a major thing as nothing really needed from spending GPL, but I would like my game to work like others.
I've been testing out Dyson Ground for the last hour or so. It's totally viable for anyone that's interested. The lagging/rubberbanding there is out of control though and Cryptic should take a look at that zone in particular. Since it had virtually no issues almost 7 years ago when it was new.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
I've been testing out Dyson Ground for the last hour or so. It's totally viable for anyone that's interested. The lagging/rubberbanding there is out of control though and Cryptic should take a look at that zone in particular. Since it had virtually no issues almost 7 years ago when it was new.
Totally agree with you. The rubber banding lately, not just there, but in many other places has been nuts and I honestly hope they fix it.
Really, if anything Cryptic has it backwards- if they want people to spend more time grinding they have to make it worthwhile. They've nerfed the Admiralty system without offering a means to get the dilithium elsewhere. If they'd substantially increased the rewards that PvE queue missions offer, that would certainly draw more players in by offering an incentive- at the moment it's peanuts, the actual reward is usually XP, either toon or ship-specific.
When you have a dozen characters to cycle through, there's no way you're going to spend significant amounts of time playing as each of them in turn just to earn enough to meet the bare minimum refining limit. This really hurts those players that actually have many characters. And since the slots aren't free they will have either shelled out for them or bought things like expansions that include them. These characters don't just exist to farm dilithium either. Each one is an individual in their own right, with their unique combination of faction, race, career, and energy type resulting in individual. All of which have had significant quantities of dilithium expended, whether for rep gear, Phoenix packs, and yes for putting into fleet projects.
As for contributions,, despite not being a founding member of the KDF fleet that I'm in, I single-handedly put in all of the dilithium necessary to upgrade the research lab to tier 3 to unlock the fifth starship trait. Proof of which can be found on the lab's leaderboard, where two of my characters are first and third. If that's not enough, for our fleet's colony world the top five contributors? All mine, and leading the rest by half a million. My point is, I already contribute a disproportionate amount of dilithium, being railroaded into it is completely unecessary.
When I play, I want to kick off admiralty assignments on each of my toons to keep the dil coming in, as well as running whatever event is on with whichever toon has the least quantity of ore. The real dil rewards of which only occur after the main prize has been claimed. You have to run the event twice on the day you claim it but that's no biggie. The result being that I can then focus on enjoying the game instead of struggling to get by.
The end result of this is that people will be grinding these queues not because they want to but because they have to.
Question, with the new Event System will it be possible to hit the 8k mark of refining Dil just from doing the daily TFO? and Possibly one daily Patrol on only one character? I Hope that is the case that way I can enjoy the rest of the day without needing to grind out a bunch of missions. makes life a little easier.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
I very much doubt it- with the admiralty the way it was, running in the background it meant that my actual playing wasn't aimed at grinding more dil but at earning other stuff like the endeavour system. Which was perfect for that since it often favoured using a specific character depending on what personal endeavours had rolled that day- when it required a certain type of damage I would pick the character that happened to have the right kind of weapons for the job.
The amounts of dil ore in question were sums of 60,000 every 10 days for 2 chains assuming rolling 1 tour per day, or on average 6,000 per day, meaning the remaining 2,000 could be taken care of with turning over contraband.
Now with the removal of the reward for the Klingon chain and the downgrading of the Ferengi one, not only have the rewards been halved but earning them has to be done 3 times over- assuming it is a 50% rate, claiming the 30,000 bonus requires earning 60,000 via other means.
This makes little difference to those with one or two characters but completely unfeasible for those with many.
"thats sort of the point. Its the people with that many characters, who are mass farming dil on that many characters, that are driving the dilex to highs that put getting zen via that method out of the reach of the much larger playerbase that doesn't."
So why not make earning Dil a Account thing instead of a per character?? max earned Dil a day via average of 3 characters is 24k so as an example they should implement it so all Dil earned is in an account pool rather than a character and you can convert MAX limit 24k a day. Wouldn't that parce the exchange to lower the amount of Dil plus curb the mass farming driving it up??
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Comments
Hey mate, when I rage write the stuff I did earlier I'm always afraid that you or Shim or Liz or some of the others from our comunity read it and feel spoken to.
Im not angry with any of our players who did not play as much as I do/did and could not contribute as much as I chose to. Its ok. I made my desission and simply wanted to have it all unlocked to give us all the poo there is to get without worrying.
I'm angry at Cryptic for designing such unfair systems in the first place. Same for the whole DPS for money concept. It always sees to it that players who care about this game the most get to bleed the most.
What they are doing now is one of the few times as of late where it finaly seems to change. Now everybody may bleed just a little bit... and best part is bleeding is not optional like fleets or DPS. Zen store hero ship shineys are the trigger everybody shoots at and its the best one they could pull because it now gets fair for everybody. The casual crybaby and the hardcore nerds alike.
P.S.
The next fleet holding is on you Arbitrator of the Watch!
P.P.S
JK mate, I have enough Dil to pay us two more holdings if I have to by now. Even at thier meanest, Cryptic never beats me and they have the habbit to miss one bug and loophole after the other over the years.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
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> Yes, dil exchange prices were already dropping before the change was even implemented. No supply change whatsoever at the time, and the sharpness of the change also belies the lack of supply effect so far. What did change was the demand for dilithium. People are buying it up while it is cheap. Likely many of those people will reseed the market with it later to get their zen back.
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> The real supply change to dilithium won't be seen for some time yet, and that will be where the market stabilizes. I'd give it at least a month before we really see how it settles.
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> Now to the video again. There is NO hyperinflation in STO. Period. The supply of diltihium and making it easier to get over time has decreased the value of dilithium, yes, and thus inflated the price of zen via dilithium. It did not hyperinflate, though. That term has zero place in this discussion or even in that video, because it simply isn't hyperinflation. We did not start at 100:1 one day and end up at 500:1 a few days later.
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> The major point that video misses, though is the nonsense of equating generating currency within a game with printing currency. The problem with this is very simple. Currency needs to be generated because there is no normal circulation. You don't put your money in a working bank in a game. It is identical to putting it under your mattress when its sitting their in your account. No one else has any access to it via loans or investments or whatever. You don't need to spend money regularly to buy food, fuel, pay taxes, or so on. You can't get a loan or tax refund or any other thing.
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> The only way to get money is to do generate it, or to generate an item and sell it for money. Did you catch that? That's important.
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> Lets set up a simple example here. $100 competing for 100 cans of beans. That suggests the price should be $1 per can. If a dumb government then devalues its currency by printing more money, now you have $200 competing for that same 100 cans of beans then the price should be $2 a can right? Of course, and that's inflation, and could be called hyperinflation if it happens fast enough and at a magnitude large enough.
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> But there's a flip side to that. If you at the same time have another factory open up to produce cans of beans, and you now have 200 cans of beans competing for $200 what happens? Yes the same $1 can of beans despite all the extra currency, because the supply of beans also increased.
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> This is what happens in games. Not only are you generating currency, but you're also generating items of value. This is where inflation gets kept in check, and the law of supply and demand work to fix prices. This is why the price of ships doesn't constantly go up and up and up in STO, because despite all the currency generation, people are also generating new ships. It fluctuates and varies based on how in demand or out of supply a ship is, but as long as people can sell newly generated box ships, the price is kept in check, and that video completely ignores that side of things. Supply of currency is important, but so is supply of items.
Beleive what you will. If zen doesnt go into the market as fast as dil, it creates an imbalance. There was far more dil being generated than zen being purchased for it.
Because players were printing tons of dilithium by farming it. That is what the video is talking about that you are clearly ignoring in your post. Inflation was out of control end of story
Farming dilithium is still generating dilithium and that is still like printing excess money. Your just arguing for the sake of trying to insist your right and nerfing admiralty was wrong at this point.
Thinking of ideas from lots of games for, dunno how long now.
Guess I better start saving up those vouchers then huh?
IF you even need the dill. Fully built fleet. WTF am i gonna use a fleet dill voucher for. Sweet TRIBBLE All, is what
Which you only get piecemeal from that pool as a bonus when you get dil from a mission or such. So instead of get the 30k instantly like we used, now we have to grind out more to get it. Apparently it comes as 25% bonus dil when you get a dil reward. So, let's say I get an award for 100 dil, I will now get 125 dil instead and that 30k pool goes down by 25. So we have to grind more to get what we should have gotten before the change. So, there is nothing good about it.
Yep. Yep. I agree with your position 100%.
Frankly they should remove or reduce several other areas with dilithium is overly given relative to the 5 & 50 amounts given for DOFFing.
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I just don’t remember precisely what I did to get Dil before Admiralty, since those are the tasks i gave up doing.
All I remember is it wasted time, a lot of time, which is why I stopped doing it.
From my perspective, it’s like Cryptic wants me to start committing more time then I have available, just for the sake of their player metrics.
But they can’t have it, so they made an impractical request which I am duly ignoring.
I’ve never been one of these obssessed resource farmers and never will be, I’m a casual player because it suits me to be so.
I’ve tried that in other games and it just leads me to hating those games so much I quit playing them.
And as Star Trek Online is the only good mmo that exists, I can’t afford to build up that level of resentment for this game.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Plus with doffing there's no way to pass up assignments. What I see here, and would make a decent change. expand each Admiralty to 5 slots each, this covers 20 slots the same as Doffing, with 3 to 5 extras. Then put them on the same 4 hour reset rotation as doffing and take away pass tokens. They'll have to increase the chance for a ToD to popup with this.
But for four hours, those 8 to 10 missions are all you get. Of course this might work better on a 2 hour reset rotation. But the missions are still going to run 15 minutes to 20 hours in length. With this, people can still use the 1 ship/shuttle trick to pass up missions.
Like the 50+ dil reward assignments, this will keep the higher payout assignment a bit more on the uncommon or rare side, as they should be. It also means you either focus on the Admiralty you want at 5 at time. However playes now have the expanded option of filling out the other 15 assignments in the 3 remaining.
This could also work on the current 3 missions per. But they'd have to limit the number of extras missions you get within the reset time. With it set like this, I would set the number of extra missions between 18 and 42. This would work the with aforementioned 5 missions per. The extras would just work in multiples of 5, say 25-45 extra missions.
As for dil gain it'self. If you're willing to put in the work, you get 390k unrefined dil from hitting T5 reputations. This is not including recruitment pack, if you have them, nor all the dil you've gathered to get to that point. I did this on a new character and it's currently sitting over 600k unrefined dil. Just on the reputation payout alone, at 8K per day, 390k dil takess roughly 49 days to refine.
And in line with these changes to Admiralty, they did reduce the amount of GPL rewarded by assignments in the Ferengi Campaign by a tremendous factor. Not implying that they could use that tactic for other rewards as well. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
They could take the GPL rewards out of the Ferengi adm and I would never miss them. If I find I need GPL, not that I have to worry over that at my current 5 or 6 million worth of it. I'd just roll up on the dabo table, toss 1 mil ot 2 EC at it, and get more in one spin than I could in 10 years of getting it from the ferengi adm.
But not enough merit to keep me working on the Ferengi Admiralty chains without a direct Dil payout for conpleting TOD 10.
It was more a side benefit, as in, I've got to do this Admiralty, so why not pick up some GPL while progressing the TOD?
Reputations I just lost interest in, for the sheer amount of boredom that resulted from doing the same queue every day for 2 months (or 1 month if using a sponsorship token).
And you only get to keep the Dil that results if you don't spend it on the gear items, from memory, it's gone almost instantly as soon as you requisition one of the set items.
That's why I only do advance the reputations to the tiers necessary to unlock the Traits or rewards I'm interested in acquiring, all others are ignored because taking all of them to T5/T6 is just too time consuming.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Yeah, this is why I have logged in since I got the the anniversary ship. With all the events, and still have to farm what was needed for all that. Burnout has been achieved. Looking at the fact the events aren't going to slow down, it my be lohlunat before I'm able to actually play the game again. Well, more than log in, do the vent daily and log back out.
Inflation is not the same as supply and demand issues. Furthermore, the dil market was usually fairly stable. Despite that weird instance where it jumped from 420ish to 500 in a few days (I'm sure that wasn't at all caused by someone doing market manipulation, nope not at all), it remains stable. Dilithium was low valued, yes, because of the supply, yes, but out of control inflation? Categorically false.
And I'm so glad you know what I'm thinking, because I sure didn't know I was thinking that. I thought my opinion on the matter was quite different, but now you've told me I'm wrong about what my own opinion is, so I can rest easier knowing someone out there can read my mind and inform me about my wrongthink.
Instead of complaining to deaf ears I simply thought hmm. I need 8k per day for one toon. with my daily doffing and admiralty I get X amount, my one stf per day I get Y amount and all I need to do is Z amount of patrols to make 9k.
Problem solved.
Now players whom have more then one account they do this on, the system wasn't originally made for players to find loopholes this large in like this, but the company seemed to have turned a blind eye to it, because they probably didn't think it would get this out of hand so complaining about it only makes the company object even more to it and will probably end with you guys receiving a daily account cap. If they decide it to be Yx1 or Yx3 or YxZ amount per day it will happen it is inevitable. So I would assume it would be best to hang back and do this for now and hope the next shoe doesn't drop in which your farms will be set back for months if not totally obliterated.
Did you forget that part where inflation gets measured through an index, because inflation is a general increase in prices over time, not just the fluctuating price of a can of beans as the bean factories flood? Inflation doesn't just measure one product price, it is a wide net of things that measures inflation to sort out the supply/demand issues that can arise from natural disasters, temporary shortages, and the like.
Here we are solely talking about one thing. Dilithium:zen pricing. Inflation can't even be properly measured with a single thing, it is just supply and demand.
And no out of control inflation is not subjective, it literally means "uncontrolled" which has objectively not been true even if we wrongly use the term inflation for dilithium:zen pricing, and more than that in context it implies hyperinflation which is also definitely not true. I suppose next time the cop pulls you over for driving out of control when you were objectively staying between the lines and within the speed limit, you'll be fine with the ticket?
ingame: @.Spartan
Original Cryptic Forum Name: Spartan (member #124)
The Glorious, Kirk’s Protegè
Events are probably the only time I log in and play consistently, to earn the reward unlock.
And it seems like the timetable is accelerating, when I finished the Anniversary ship one, it felt like it didn't take them long to roll out the next one!
Not long enough to give me a break that is.....
Burnout set in fairly early on this one, by the time I'd done 16 daily runs, I said to myself, I can't take another 2 days of this and just paid with money to buy out and conplete.
And if the event queue is The Breach, then I buy out immediately, because I'm so burnt out on that one I don't want to play it at all!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
GPL never works for, hasn't for a very long time. I've put in ticket after ticket and still no resolution. I mean, to me, it's not a major thing as nothing really needed from spending GPL, but I would like my game to work like others.
Totally agree with you. The rubber banding lately, not just there, but in many other places has been nuts and I honestly hope they fix it.
When you have a dozen characters to cycle through, there's no way you're going to spend significant amounts of time playing as each of them in turn just to earn enough to meet the bare minimum refining limit. This really hurts those players that actually have many characters. And since the slots aren't free they will have either shelled out for them or bought things like expansions that include them. These characters don't just exist to farm dilithium either. Each one is an individual in their own right, with their unique combination of faction, race, career, and energy type resulting in individual. All of which have had significant quantities of dilithium expended, whether for rep gear, Phoenix packs, and yes for putting into fleet projects.
As for contributions,, despite not being a founding member of the KDF fleet that I'm in, I single-handedly put in all of the dilithium necessary to upgrade the research lab to tier 3 to unlock the fifth starship trait. Proof of which can be found on the lab's leaderboard, where two of my characters are first and third. If that's not enough, for our fleet's colony world the top five contributors? All mine, and leading the rest by half a million. My point is, I already contribute a disproportionate amount of dilithium, being railroaded into it is completely unecessary.
When I play, I want to kick off admiralty assignments on each of my toons to keep the dil coming in, as well as running whatever event is on with whichever toon has the least quantity of ore. The real dil rewards of which only occur after the main prize has been claimed. You have to run the event twice on the day you claim it but that's no biggie. The result being that I can then focus on enjoying the game instead of struggling to get by.
The end result of this is that people will be grinding these queues not because they want to but because they have to.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
The amounts of dil ore in question were sums of 60,000 every 10 days for 2 chains assuming rolling 1 tour per day, or on average 6,000 per day, meaning the remaining 2,000 could be taken care of with turning over contraband.
Now with the removal of the reward for the Klingon chain and the downgrading of the Ferengi one, not only have the rewards been halved but earning them has to be done 3 times over- assuming it is a 50% rate, claiming the 30,000 bonus requires earning 60,000 via other means.
This makes little difference to those with one or two characters but completely unfeasible for those with many.
So why not make earning Dil a Account thing instead of a per character?? max earned Dil a day via average of 3 characters is 24k so as an example they should implement it so all Dil earned is in an account pool rather than a character and you can convert MAX limit 24k a day. Wouldn't that parce the exchange to lower the amount of Dil plus curb the mass farming driving it up??
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh