155 - 230 is an insulting amount considering Zen is purchased with real, hard-earned cash. Imo the exchange rate should be permanently locked at 500.
I have to agree! Locking the exchange rate would give Dilithium a stable value. The lower the Dilithium Exchange goes, the less people sell ZEN. The higher it goes, the less people that buy ZEN with Dilithium. Locking the rate would show buyers and sellers of ZEN that it has a static value.
Locking the exchange rate at any particular value would eventually cause less Zen sales for PWE. Let's say they locked it at 500 dilthium/Zen. That might seem fair today to the sellers, but in a few months, when there is something else new added that people have to buy with Zen, that old cap will feel like an artificial ceiling on the amount of dilithium that the Zen seller gets for each Zen that is listed. As mentioned above, this is one of the causes of black markets developing, the other main one being bans on goods entering a country in the real world, like Levi's jeans in the Soviet Union, or illegal drugs in many countries. This is probably the reason that they have taken action twice now when it was in danger of hitting the 500:1 rate and staying there.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Well for myself its a bit of an option more Dil for Zen means my $$ goes a bit further Less Dil for Zen means I stop buying Zen and just use the Dil for items I want. Either way I just play and have fun. At some point though, I plan to spend less than I have in the past only because I get content with what I have and I am happy about how I play. in essence I just unlock what I feel I need in game to not worry anymore about my overall gaming experience. Its also a learning curve for me once I know how to play I Might make a second account just to have it 100% free experience. My Overall point is this, without a doubt this is the best free model out there, and I can sympathise with those who are not able to afford the store stuff. but essentially the bells and whistles are not what make the game a joy to play. For myself, learning and adapting to the developed game "pay style" that allows me to play without spending is what I love more then the bling. just my 2c.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
i'd like to know what part of the world you live in where you can earn 20$ mowing ONE lawn - because i want to move there
My lawn takes ~3 hours to mow with a push mower that has a front wheel drive assist. Luckily someone invented the riding mower, but it is pretty miserable if the riding mower breaks down. Rural America, where land is cheap and plentiful.
At anyrate it seems obvious my takes on Dil is being really misunderstood. You can't just say something is free when it takes time and effort to get. That is the price. Money just quantifies it with a convenient exchange medium.
How much is that time and effort you put into refining Dil worth? Well you can calculate that with the dil:zen rate and how much time you spend to earn it. Knowing that and your local economy you can decide whether you want to do an odd job and just buy zen, or play the game, factoring in your enjoyment during your dil refining.
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
There is one issue about this, no one has brought up. So let me do that.
With a market like this. You have those looking to get the most bang for their buck as they say. These aren't the problem children here. As they tend to work with what the market currently is.
The problem children are those with entirely to much dil, and will use it to inflate the Dilex. They'll buy all the lowest and turn around and sell it at a much higher price. They'll do this, for really no other reason than to make things more difficult for other players.
But this also falls back on the problem of people having to much dil and not much of anything to do with it. Looking at this, people are saying we need another dil sink. Not a bad idea. However, I think we can all agree that the only real one would be another fleet holding with some pretty massive dil requirements for projects.
Another I can think that would help some, purchasing Colony Provisions with Dil.
Adjusting the refine cap is another way. This wouldn't have any profound effect on the market for a long time though. As the current problem is people already having to much.
One could go with an account wide refine cap, but leaving the character refine cap in place. This would just cut down on the number of alts people had to cycle through to get to said cap. Again, nothing that's going to profoundly effect the market for some time.
Right now, the most profound thing I can think to help would be to cut the amount of dil one can earn. Something I stated in an earlier post. Duty officer assignments would be immune to this. Since there aren't many that reward more than 5 dil.
Episode, Patrol, TFO dil rewards, cut to one-quarter or one-half what they are. Same with Admiralty.
Ferengi and Klingon Admiralty 10/10, 30K dil replaced with Elite Mark Choice package.
This doesn't affect the overall game. But it does make it more difficult to hit that 8K refine cap on alts. Because now, you have to do more to get there.
Adding more drains to a sink, doesn't fix the broken faucet.
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
could be a lot worse like 1000/1 frankly if you haven't put any real money in the game and are getting premium content for free. then just be grateful. I been playing last 8 hours on a new free account already have an Elachi Boff and opened my first phoenix box to which I got an epic console. In fact I might stick with this limited account more and park my lifetime account just to bank the Zen for a rainy day. Bottom line, the math is in favor of the Free players more so than anyone else who pays for this game. if your a first timer, the learning curve isn't too hard. What might be harder for a lot of people is retaining what they know about the game and implementing it correctly.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
could be a lot worse like 1000/1 frankly if you haven't put any real money in the game and are getting premium content for free. then just be grateful. I been playing last 8 hours on a new free account already have an Elachi Boff and opened my first phoenix box to which I got an epic console. In fact I might stick with this limited account more and park my lifetime account just to bank the Zen for a rainy day. Bottom line, the math is in favor of the Free players more so than anyone else who pays for this game. if your a first timer, the learning curve isn't too hard. What might be harder for a lot of people is retaining what they know about the game and implementing it correctly.
Well, the 1000:1 we will never see. The market cap has been 500:1 since it was put in place. Which, I'm pretty sure Cryptic doesn't want to change that.
But this also falls back on the problem of people having to much dil and not much of anything to do with it. Looking at this, people are saying we need another dil sink. Not a bad idea. However, I think we can all agree that the only real one would be another fleet holding with some pretty massive dil requirements for projects.
May not work. The Colony didn't seem to have much of an impact on the Exchange. And as past holdings have shown, long term effects dwindle when the larger fleets complete them.
Another I can think that would help some, purchasing Colony Provisions with Dil.
Instantly countered by the fact that mid-high tier colonies actually produce those automatically and fill the coffers.
Adjusting the refine cap is another way. This wouldn't have any profound effect on the market for a long time though. As the current problem is people already having to much.
BAD idea anyways.
One could go with an account wide refine cap, but leaving the character refine cap in place. This would just cut down on the number of alts people had to cycle through to get to said cap. Again, nothing that's going to profoundly effect the market for some time.
Another BAD idea anyways.
Right now, the most profound thing I can think to help would be to cut the amount of dil one can earn. Something I stated in an earlier post. Duty officer assignments would be immune to this. Since there aren't many that reward more than 5 dil.
Episode, Patrol, TFO dil rewards, cut to one-quarter or one-half what they are. Same with Admiralty.
When Dilithium was first introduced, people complained that it was really hard to get it.
Ferengi and Klingon Admiralty 10/10, 30K dil replaced with Elite Mark Choice package.
Klingon Rep is themed towards dilithium in rewards, while Ferengi is personal wealth.
Basically defeats the purpose of having them. Also... the earliest you can hit the 10/10 is ten days. And you'd fully refine that well before the next. I don't see how that's going to help.
This doesn't affect the overall game. But it does make it more difficult to hit that 8K refine cap on alts. Because now, you have to do more to get there.
Adding more drains to a sink, doesn't fix the broken faucet.
How often are people hitting those caps though? And to play devil's advocate for a minute here... why should players be punished for playing? Any decrease in reward Dilithium would cause an uproar in the community, complaining about nerfs and inability to get anything, especially in a reasonable amount of time, AND not solve the issue of the current supply that already exists. Meaningful sinks that people will want to use, on the other hand, would work. The problem is... how to get ones that aren't temporary like the Fleet Holdings.
Why is the supply so high? Yes we have lots of sources, but we also have a lack of long term things to spend it on, so people stockpile. We need something to get Dilithium moving. Not punish people for trying to get it in the first place.
We have a worse problem with GPL. Lots of supply, no demand. I've got enough to build the Great Pyramids of Giza. But nothing to buy with it all.
Its Supply and Demand. Every suggestion about limiting Supply doesn't address the main issue, which is Demand. You can have 50,000 Widgets or 10 Widgets for Supply, but if there is no Demand... well... even 50,000 Widgets is worth 0 without any kind of Demand.
I wish that would add to the Zen Store a Dilithium Unrefined Cap Increase. so some can enjoy Dill weekend Again LOL
It's absolutely shocking how little you understand about this topic.
There is no point debating you, you are simply incapable of understanding.. anything.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Can you provide some mathematical analysis to show why arbitrary numbers like 155 to 230 are "reasonable" and why a different arbitrary number like 453 is "too high?" Can you show any statistics, metrics or research of any kind to prove why this is "fact" and not just random numbers that you have feelings about?
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Any reduction of Dilithium rewards is a very bad idea and here's why, that would ultimately not punish those who have played for a long time and have amassed stockpiles of dilithium or know how to get a lot of it quickly, but rather it would punish those that are just starting or simply don't have the knowledge or time to amass stockpiles of dilithium.
Becoming massively newbie hostile will not be wise for this game at all as it would mean there would be no people to replace the natural rate of players leaving for 1 reason or another.
But this also falls back on the problem of people having to much dil and not much of anything to do with it. Looking at this, people are saying we need another dil sink. Not a bad idea. However, I think we can all agree that the only real one would be another fleet holding with some pretty massive dil requirements for projects.
May not work. The Colony didn't seem to have much of an impact on the Exchange. And as past holdings have shown, long term effects dwindle when the larger fleets complete them.
Another I can think that would help some, purchasing Colony Provisions with Dil.
Instantly countered by the fact that mid-high tier colonies actually produce those automatically and fill the coffers.
Adjusting the refine cap is another way. This wouldn't have any profound effect on the market for a long time though. As the current problem is people already having to much.
BAD idea anyways.
One could go with an account wide refine cap, but leaving the character refine cap in place. This would just cut down on the number of alts people had to cycle through to get to said cap. Again, nothing that's going to profoundly effect the market for some time.
Another BAD idea anyways.
Right now, the most profound thing I can think to help would be to cut the amount of dil one can earn. Something I stated in an earlier post. Duty officer assignments would be immune to this. Since there aren't many that reward more than 5 dil.
Episode, Patrol, TFO dil rewards, cut to one-quarter or one-half what they are. Same with Admiralty.
When Dilithium was first introduced, people complained that it was really hard to get it.
Ferengi and Klingon Admiralty 10/10, 30K dil replaced with Elite Mark Choice package.
Klingon Rep is themed towards dilithium in rewards, while Ferengi is personal wealth.
Basically defeats the purpose of having them. Also... the earliest you can hit the 10/10 is ten days. And you'd fully refine that well before the next. I don't see how that's going to help.
This doesn't affect the overall game. But it does make it more difficult to hit that 8K refine cap on alts. Because now, you have to do more to get there.
Adding more drains to a sink, doesn't fix the broken faucet.
How often are people hitting those caps though? And to play devil's advocate for a minute here... why should players be punished for playing? Any decrease in reward Dilithium would cause an uproar in the community, complaining about nerfs and inability to get anything, especially in a reasonable amount of time, AND not solve the issue of the current supply that already exists. Meaningful sinks that people will want to use, on the other hand, would work. The problem is... how to get ones that aren't temporary like the Fleet Holdings.
Why is the supply so high? Yes we have lots of sources, but we also have a lack of long term things to spend it on, so people stockpile. We need something to get Dilithium moving. Not punish people for trying to get it in the first place.
We have a worse problem with GPL. Lots of supply, no demand. I've got enough to build the Great Pyramids of Giza. But nothing to buy with it all.
Its Supply and Demand. Every suggestion about limiting Supply doesn't address the main issue, which is Demand. You can have 50,000 Widgets or 10 Widgets for Supply, but if there is no Demand... well... even 50,000 Widgets is worth 0 without any kind of Demand.
We're both playing devil's advocate here. I'm just not looking at it from the "we need a meaning dil sink" side. This is looking at it as Cryptic would.
As far as back then goes. I started playing the day the game went F2P in 2012, and other than the initial get in an learn it time, I can't agree that it was hard to get. We had less ways of acquiring it sure, so it took more time. Hard to get? Not at all. This is also back when people were saying that 40 to 50 dil per zen was to expensive. But, then we all had far less to do with it as well, until the fleet system rolled out.
Now we have far more sources with which to acquire dil. Most with better payouts than back then, for doing nothing but clicking and assigning some ships to an admiralty.
This means that the overabundance of supply is part of the problem. Remember, in Star Trek dilithium is not a common thing. They didn't have it overflowing from every TRIBBLE on their ship and/or starbase. But at least they got the use as a currency right.
But, as you and I pointed out, it does little for the current over abundance that people have. I'm not arguing against another dil sink. But, as this thread points out, finding a meaningful, long term one is a bit of a problem.
Something I can think of that would definitely help drain that off. Occasionally offfer some C-Store items up for dil sales. Somethings that come to mind here drydocks, loadout, and ship roster expansions. Maybe on the odd occasion throw in doff, boff, and inventory expansions, or doff packs. Granted these would come with a pretty hefty price tag, say 500K dil a pop.
Another that comes to mind, but would require more coding on Cryptic's part, Player housing. Since this has been something the players have been asking for. This would be an account only holding, but have projects like fleet holdings, reduced cost of course. It would be a preset size as well, 100x100 200x200 or 500x500, which are the three largest foundations/platforms from the foundry. Though 50x50 might be big enough here. However, like a ship interior/social zone it would have 15 or 20 person cap.
If we run with this and say the initial cost to buy is 100-500K dil, whatever size it would happen to be. Then you get amp selection. Again, things that are left over from the foundry. This would include beach, forest, mountain, desert, etc. Of course cleaned up of all the clutter most of the foundry maps have. You now have a place to build your house. The only thing the owner can control here is time of day. With the preset size, you can only build to that limit. They could even do this where X amount of people could build on 1 instance of a map, thus allowing for friends/fleets to build a small community. Again though, each house is an account thing, no one else can help you with it.
From here, floor, walls, ceilings, furniture, decorations, ect. are projects you have to do. This could include NPC's as well.
These would cost:
Expertise
Latinum(giving it a use)
White Doffs(need construction workers)
R&D Materials
Dilithium
This would just cover basic generic stuff, and things you'd find at the Academy, First City, or New Romulus Command.
Anything outside of this like Icononian, Tzenkethi, Dyson Sphere, Kobali, etc. and anything new they happened to come up with for it. Well, here you go, new cash shop item, Residence Decoration Pack - 1000 zen.
Edit: Right! Forgot to mention, the Residence pack there would be themed. So it would be a 1000 zen per theme.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic.
Yep.. you started a forum thread.. that makes you an expert!
Seriously man.. keep it up.. your posts are hilarious!
Okay, we can all agree that starmanj is just plain wrong...be it his ideas of dil refinement or what the exchange price should be...but let's be a little fair here. The devs have said the dilex is too high for their tastes as well.
Right you are, and agreed.
My problem isn't with the idea of reducing the exchange rate, I can get behind that. My issue is declaring your own idea of what is a 'fair' number as a fact. This poster started a thread about lowering the exchange rate and then in the exact same thread wants an increase in the daily refinement limit which we both know would inflate the exchange rate even more, then claimed he knows what he's talking about.
Others have already said what needs to be said.. the key is making Dilithum more valuable so people want to spend it on something other then Zen. The trick is finding a method that accomplishes this goal. Obviously, increasing daily limit is counter productive and we all have a different idea of what is and isn't a 'fair' exchange rate.. but in the end the only real fair price is what the market is paying. Nobody gets to just make up a number out of thin air and then declare it as the gold standard and call it a 'fact.'
I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.. just clarifying my stance.
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic.
Yep.. you started a forum thread.. that makes you an expert!
Seriously man.. keep it up.. your posts are hilarious!
Okay, we can all agree that starmanj is just plain wrong...be it his ideas of dil refinement or what the exchange price should be...but let's be a little fair here. The devs have said the dilex is too high for their tastes as well.
Right you are, and agreed.
My problem isn't with the idea of reducing the exchange rate, I can get behind that. My issue is declaring your own idea of what is a 'fair' number as a fact. This poster started a thread about lowering the exchange rate and then in the exact same thread wants an increase in the daily refinement limit which we both know would inflate the exchange rate even more, then claimed he knows what he's talking about.
Others have already said what needs to be said.. the key is making Dilithum more valuable so people want to spend it on something other then Zen. The trick is finding a method that accomplishes this goal. Obviously, increasing daily limit is counter productive and we all have a different idea of what is and isn't a 'fair' exchange rate.. but in the end the only real fair price is what the market is paying. Nobody gets to just make up a number out of thin air and then declare it as the gold standard and call it a 'fact.'
I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.. just clarifying my stance.
I really like the phoenix box idea, I rather personal buy those then exchange for Zen, Perhaps if they offered more stuff from the boxes are more rewards that people are after would that drop the conversion of Dil to Zen? I have no idea but I know I wont be converting my Dil to Zen any time soon.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
..and we all have a different idea of what is and isn't a 'fair' exchange rate.. but in the end the only real fair price is what the market is paying. Nobody gets to just make up a number out of thin air and then declare it as the gold standard and call it a 'fact.'
My personal opinion is that the most fair price is somewhere in the 250-350 range. Not too low for Zen sellers, and not too hard to feel like you're actually earning something when buying with Dilithium. But again that is my own opinion on what feels more balanced. Some want less, some want more. I honestly just say split the difference, but leave wiggle room for fluctuations.
Whatever the current price for zen is is a fair price. It's a reflection of how easy or hard dilithium is to earn versus how desirable things are that you can buy with dilithium or zen. There are many more desirable things right now that cost zen. So naturally the price is higher. But that doesn't make it more or less fair. It's absolutely 100% fair on both sides because it's a reflection of the reality of the value of both dilithium and zen.
If you want to lower the dil/zen price from 450ish to 250ish, you need to add very desirable items to the game that can only be purchased with dilithium. And whatever that new price is, be it 150, 250, 350 or even 450 IS the new fair price because it's set by buyers and sellers alike. Arbitrarily deciding that some other price is "fair" because it sounds nice is just nonsense.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Whatever the current price for zen is is a fair price. It's a reflection of how easy or hard dilithium is to earn versus how desirable things are that you can buy with dilithium or zen. There are many more desirable things right now that cost zen. So naturally the price is higher. But that doesn't make it more or less fair. It's absolutely 100% fair on both sides because it's a reflection of the reality of the value of both dilithium and zen.
If you want to lower the dil/zen price from 450ish to 250ish, you need to add very desirable items to the game that can only be purchased with dilithium. And whatever that new price is, be it 150, 250, 350 or even 450 IS the new fair price because it's set by buyers and sellers alike. Arbitrarily deciding that some other price is "fair" because it sounds nice is just nonsense.
155 - 230 is an insulting amount considering Zen is purchased with real, hard-earned cash. Imo the exchange rate should be permanently locked at 500.
I have to agree! Locking the exchange rate would give Dilithium a stable value. The lower the Dilithium Exchange goes, the less people sell ZEN. The higher it goes, the less people that buy ZEN with Dilithium. Locking the rate would show buyers and sellers of ZEN that it has a static value.
Locking the exchange rate at any particular value would eventually cause less Zen sales for PWE. Let's say they locked it at 500 dilthium/Zen. That might seem fair today to the sellers, but in a few months, when there is something else new added that people have to buy with Zen, that old cap will feel like an artificial ceiling on the amount of dilithium that the Zen seller gets for each Zen that is listed. As mentioned above, this is one of the causes of black markets developing, the other main one being bans on goods entering a country in the real world, like Levi's jeans in the Soviet Union, or illegal drugs in many countries. This is probably the reason that they have taken action twice now when it was in danger of hitting the 500:1 rate and staying there.
I don't believe that kind of nonsense. PWE sells more than enough ZEN regularly and there are ZEN sales regularly. A static value would actually encourage me to buy more ZEN when ZEN is on sale because its worth in Dilithium would still be the same. Black market ZEN and Dilithium isn't a thing because neither can be traded directly to another player. Gold spammers are still quite prominent in the game though, but anyone silly enough to try and obtain a lock box ship, EC, and such from a shady source is just asking for a bad outcome.
I seem to recall that Corporations, that are not privately held, can issue additional stocks availible in the Market, or can buy back stocks already out in the Market.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
..and we all have a different idea of what is and isn't a 'fair' exchange rate.. but in the end the only real fair price is what the market is paying. Nobody gets to just make up a number out of thin air and then declare it as the gold standard and call it a 'fact.'
My personal opinion is that the most fair price is somewhere in the 250-350 range. Not too low for Zen sellers, and not too hard to feel like you're actually earning something when buying with Dilithium. But again that is my own opinion on what feels more balanced. Some want less, some want more. I honestly just say split the difference, but leave wiggle room for fluctuations.
Farmers do provide a service to the paying customers, but one thing to consider is that the service might be less valuable now than it was years ago.
The reason is that the non-farmers earn more dil themselves thanks to random TFOs, the first patrol, endeavors, admiralty, and the increase of reputations to 13.
If a zen seller needed 10,000 dil, in 2014 they might have earned 1,000 and wanted to buy 9,000. Now they earn 6,000 as a side effect of playing and only want 4,000. They can more easily decide to earn the extra 4,000 themselves the next day if the dilex is too low, instead of it taking 9 more days.
That's only for small-scale buyers of course. A whale who wants their own Fleet might still buy millions of dil and the increased rewards are a drop in the bucket to them.
Couple Questions, How long does it take before you can exchange Zen to Dil is it 7 days?!? My Second question is the farming Dil, basically boil down to the number of alts correct? and how much you can grind out 8k dill on each of them a day? Given the amount of time one has in a day between gaming and sleeping? I would say about 5-8 Average Characters a day making the 8k conversion. if they are running 8 a day. 64k Dil a day is quite decent, Also I might add a fresh account gets 8 characters slots... For someone with the time and a new stock account you can average yourself roughly 141 Zen a day.. 987 Zen a week, Geez 4230 Zen or so a month with the current conversion of buying Zen at 453.. for FREE. If someone knows a Niche though on the fastest way to convert the 8k a day then it just gets crazy how much you can make. Seriously even at a cap of 500 Dil for 1 ZEN my mind is kind of blown people are complaining at this.
Making over $40 USD in a Zen a month is pretty sweet. you play for free and make Zen doing it. I do not know of a game that Pays you to play it. for its premium Items...
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
My Second question is the farming Dil, basically boil down to the number of alts correct? and how much you can grind out 8k dill on each of them a day? Given the amount of time one has in a day between gaming and sleeping? I would say about 5-8 Average Characters a day making the 8k conversion. if they are running 8 a day. 64k Dil a day is quite decent, Also I might add a fresh account gets 8 characters slots... For someone with the time and a new stock account you can average yourself roughly 141 Zen a day.. 987 Zen a week, Geez 4230 Zen or so a month with the current conversion of buying Zen at 453.. for FREE. If someone knows a Niche though on the fastest way to convert the 8k a day then it just gets crazy how much you can make. Seriously even at a cap of 500 Dil for 1 ZEN my mind is kind of blown people are complaining at this.
Making over $40 USD in a Zen a month is pretty sweet. you play for free and make Zen doing it. I do not know of a game that Pays you to play it. for its premium Items...
As someone who's done that, although with only seven characters, pretty much. However I've not been maxing them out every day. Just running Ferengi Admiralty. On average I can make about 100 Zen a day on good days. And that's if I don't use that Dilithium for other things like Rep projects or pushing a bit on a Fleet project.
*points at my sig*
I don't make that claim lightly. I DID grind out those packs. Was a lot of work, even passively via Admiralty, but its doable.
However even I have to admit something like the Legendary Pack may be beyond even my grinding skills. Doable yes, but that would also mean resisting getting anything else until you get the pack.
My Second question is the farming Dil, basically boil down to the number of alts correct? and how much you can grind out 8k dill on each of them a day? Given the amount of time one has in a day between gaming and sleeping? I would say about 5-8 Average Characters a day making the 8k conversion. if they are running 8 a day. 64k Dil a day is quite decent, Also I might add a fresh account gets 8 characters slots... For someone with the time and a new stock account you can average yourself roughly 141 Zen a day.. 987 Zen a week, Geez 4230 Zen or so a month with the current conversion of buying Zen at 453.. for FREE. If someone knows a Niche though on the fastest way to convert the 8k a day then it just gets crazy how much you can make. Seriously even at a cap of 500 Dil for 1 ZEN my mind is kind of blown people are complaining at this.
Making over $40 USD in a Zen a month is pretty sweet. you play for free and make Zen doing it. I do not know of a game that Pays you to play it. for its premium Items...
As someone who's done that, although with only seven characters, pretty much. However I've not been maxing them out every day. Just running Ferengi Admiralty. On average I can make about 100 Zen a day on good days. And that's if I don't use that Dilithium for other things like Rep projects or pushing a bit on a Fleet project.
*points at my sig*
I don't make that claim lightly. I DID grind out those packs. Was a lot of work, even passively via Admiralty, but its doable.
However even I have to admit something like the Legendary Pack may be beyond even my grinding skills. Doable yes, but that would also mean resisting getting anything else until you get the pack.
I am testing a few theory's I have regarding Dil, and "Math" LOL. but the way I see it, in the long run concerning the 500 Dilithium cap...
if it hits 500 and sustains it longer than a day, the cap will probably get removed to something higher within a week. Just my personal prediction. They may try to not let that happen however, but if it locks at 500, they probably will take action in some form or another. Just a gut feeling haha nothing to be concerned about
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
They would be forced to take action. A permanent 500 price would mean that any zen for sale is instantly bought leaving 0 on the market. You could have 10,000,000 refined dil and you wouldn't be guaranteed the ability to buy any zen since it wouldn't even be available to buy. Personally, I think that Cryptic hopes to avoid this since they would have only two choices to immediately address that issue. Either double the dil/zen cap to 1000 or nerf dil rewards. Both of those choices would cause a ton of backlash that could be avoided by creating more things in the dilithium store that are worth buying.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Both of those choices would cause a ton of backlash that could be avoided by creating more things in the dilithium store that are worth buying.
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking, but some of the scale of their pricing is off like 2m for a costume?? I could see that maybe for a ship, or reclaim gear, but not just a costume. I mean I could be wrong but it would have to be a pretty amazing Costume haha.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Comments
Locking the exchange rate at any particular value would eventually cause less Zen sales for PWE. Let's say they locked it at 500 dilthium/Zen. That might seem fair today to the sellers, but in a few months, when there is something else new added that people have to buy with Zen, that old cap will feel like an artificial ceiling on the amount of dilithium that the Zen seller gets for each Zen that is listed. As mentioned above, this is one of the causes of black markets developing, the other main one being bans on goods entering a country in the real world, like Levi's jeans in the Soviet Union, or illegal drugs in many countries. This is probably the reason that they have taken action twice now when it was in danger of hitting the 500:1 rate and staying there.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
My lawn takes ~3 hours to mow with a push mower that has a front wheel drive assist. Luckily someone invented the riding mower, but it is pretty miserable if the riding mower breaks down. Rural America, where land is cheap and plentiful.
At anyrate it seems obvious my takes on Dil is being really misunderstood. You can't just say something is free when it takes time and effort to get. That is the price. Money just quantifies it with a convenient exchange medium.
How much is that time and effort you put into refining Dil worth? Well you can calculate that with the dil:zen rate and how much time you spend to earn it. Knowing that and your local economy you can decide whether you want to do an odd job and just buy zen, or play the game, factoring in your enjoyment during your dil refining.
That's awesome
Umm I think I started the Topic so I completely understand the Topic. and all I am saying the Dil Exchange is to high. and it need to go back down to a reasonable rate like it was between 155 to 230. and as for the Fact and not a opinion. maybe you should do the math.
Yep.. you started a forum thread.. that makes you an expert!
Seriously man.. keep it up.. your posts are hilarious!
With a market like this. You have those looking to get the most bang for their buck as they say. These aren't the problem children here. As they tend to work with what the market currently is.
The problem children are those with entirely to much dil, and will use it to inflate the Dilex. They'll buy all the lowest and turn around and sell it at a much higher price. They'll do this, for really no other reason than to make things more difficult for other players.
But this also falls back on the problem of people having to much dil and not much of anything to do with it. Looking at this, people are saying we need another dil sink. Not a bad idea. However, I think we can all agree that the only real one would be another fleet holding with some pretty massive dil requirements for projects.
Another I can think that would help some, purchasing Colony Provisions with Dil.
Adjusting the refine cap is another way. This wouldn't have any profound effect on the market for a long time though. As the current problem is people already having to much.
One could go with an account wide refine cap, but leaving the character refine cap in place. This would just cut down on the number of alts people had to cycle through to get to said cap. Again, nothing that's going to profoundly effect the market for some time.
Right now, the most profound thing I can think to help would be to cut the amount of dil one can earn. Something I stated in an earlier post. Duty officer assignments would be immune to this. Since there aren't many that reward more than 5 dil.
Episode, Patrol, TFO dil rewards, cut to one-quarter or one-half what they are. Same with Admiralty.
Ferengi and Klingon Admiralty 10/10, 30K dil replaced with Elite Mark Choice package.
This doesn't affect the overall game. But it does make it more difficult to hit that 8K refine cap on alts. Because now, you have to do more to get there.
Adding more drains to a sink, doesn't fix the broken faucet.
could be a lot worse like 1000/1 frankly if you haven't put any real money in the game and are getting premium content for free. then just be grateful. I been playing last 8 hours on a new free account already have an Elachi Boff and opened my first phoenix box to which I got an epic console. In fact I might stick with this limited account more and park my lifetime account just to bank the Zen for a rainy day. Bottom line, the math is in favor of the Free players more so than anyone else who pays for this game. if your a first timer, the learning curve isn't too hard. What might be harder for a lot of people is retaining what they know about the game and implementing it correctly.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Well, the 1000:1 we will never see. The market cap has been 500:1 since it was put in place. Which, I'm pretty sure Cryptic doesn't want to change that.
You'd almost advise the OP to start a thread about making money
'Problem' solved
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Instantly countered by the fact that mid-high tier colonies actually produce those automatically and fill the coffers.
BAD idea anyways.
Another BAD idea anyways.
When Dilithium was first introduced, people complained that it was really hard to get it.
Klingon Rep is themed towards dilithium in rewards, while Ferengi is personal wealth.
Basically defeats the purpose of having them. Also... the earliest you can hit the 10/10 is ten days. And you'd fully refine that well before the next. I don't see how that's going to help.
How often are people hitting those caps though? And to play devil's advocate for a minute here... why should players be punished for playing? Any decrease in reward Dilithium would cause an uproar in the community, complaining about nerfs and inability to get anything, especially in a reasonable amount of time, AND not solve the issue of the current supply that already exists. Meaningful sinks that people will want to use, on the other hand, would work. The problem is... how to get ones that aren't temporary like the Fleet Holdings.
Why is the supply so high? Yes we have lots of sources, but we also have a lack of long term things to spend it on, so people stockpile. We need something to get Dilithium moving. Not punish people for trying to get it in the first place.
We have a worse problem with GPL. Lots of supply, no demand. I've got enough to build the Great Pyramids of Giza. But nothing to buy with it all.
Its Supply and Demand. Every suggestion about limiting Supply doesn't address the main issue, which is Demand. You can have 50,000 Widgets or 10 Widgets for Supply, but if there is no Demand... well... even 50,000 Widgets is worth 0 without any kind of Demand.
Becoming massively newbie hostile will not be wise for this game at all as it would mean there would be no people to replace the natural rate of players leaving for 1 reason or another.
We're both playing devil's advocate here. I'm just not looking at it from the "we need a meaning dil sink" side. This is looking at it as Cryptic would.
As far as back then goes. I started playing the day the game went F2P in 2012, and other than the initial get in an learn it time, I can't agree that it was hard to get. We had less ways of acquiring it sure, so it took more time. Hard to get? Not at all. This is also back when people were saying that 40 to 50 dil per zen was to expensive. But, then we all had far less to do with it as well, until the fleet system rolled out.
Now we have far more sources with which to acquire dil. Most with better payouts than back then, for doing nothing but clicking and assigning some ships to an admiralty.
This means that the overabundance of supply is part of the problem. Remember, in Star Trek dilithium is not a common thing. They didn't have it overflowing from every TRIBBLE on their ship and/or starbase. But at least they got the use as a currency right.
But, as you and I pointed out, it does little for the current over abundance that people have. I'm not arguing against another dil sink. But, as this thread points out, finding a meaningful, long term one is a bit of a problem.
Something I can think of that would definitely help drain that off. Occasionally offfer some C-Store items up for dil sales. Somethings that come to mind here drydocks, loadout, and ship roster expansions. Maybe on the odd occasion throw in doff, boff, and inventory expansions, or doff packs. Granted these would come with a pretty hefty price tag, say 500K dil a pop.
Another that comes to mind, but would require more coding on Cryptic's part, Player housing. Since this has been something the players have been asking for. This would be an account only holding, but have projects like fleet holdings, reduced cost of course. It would be a preset size as well, 100x100 200x200 or 500x500, which are the three largest foundations/platforms from the foundry. Though 50x50 might be big enough here. However, like a ship interior/social zone it would have 15 or 20 person cap.
If we run with this and say the initial cost to buy is 100-500K dil, whatever size it would happen to be. Then you get amp selection. Again, things that are left over from the foundry. This would include beach, forest, mountain, desert, etc. Of course cleaned up of all the clutter most of the foundry maps have. You now have a place to build your house. The only thing the owner can control here is time of day. With the preset size, you can only build to that limit. They could even do this where X amount of people could build on 1 instance of a map, thus allowing for friends/fleets to build a small community. Again though, each house is an account thing, no one else can help you with it.
From here, floor, walls, ceilings, furniture, decorations, ect. are projects you have to do. This could include NPC's as well.
These would cost:
Expertise
Latinum(giving it a use)
White Doffs(need construction workers)
R&D Materials
Dilithium
This would just cover basic generic stuff, and things you'd find at the Academy, First City, or New Romulus Command.
Anything outside of this like Icononian, Tzenkethi, Dyson Sphere, Kobali, etc. and anything new they happened to come up with for it. Well, here you go, new cash shop item, Residence Decoration Pack - 1000 zen.
Edit: Right! Forgot to mention, the Residence pack there would be themed. So it would be a 1000 zen per theme.
Right you are, and agreed.
My problem isn't with the idea of reducing the exchange rate, I can get behind that. My issue is declaring your own idea of what is a 'fair' number as a fact. This poster started a thread about lowering the exchange rate and then in the exact same thread wants an increase in the daily refinement limit which we both know would inflate the exchange rate even more, then claimed he knows what he's talking about.
Others have already said what needs to be said.. the key is making Dilithum more valuable so people want to spend it on something other then Zen. The trick is finding a method that accomplishes this goal. Obviously, increasing daily limit is counter productive and we all have a different idea of what is and isn't a 'fair' exchange rate.. but in the end the only real fair price is what the market is paying. Nobody gets to just make up a number out of thin air and then declare it as the gold standard and call it a 'fact.'
I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.. just clarifying my stance.
I really like the phoenix box idea, I rather personal buy those then exchange for Zen, Perhaps if they offered more stuff from the boxes are more rewards that people are after would that drop the conversion of Dil to Zen? I have no idea but I know I wont be converting my Dil to Zen any time soon.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
My personal opinion is that the most fair price is somewhere in the 250-350 range. Not too low for Zen sellers, and not too hard to feel like you're actually earning something when buying with Dilithium. But again that is my own opinion on what feels more balanced. Some want less, some want more. I honestly just say split the difference, but leave wiggle room for fluctuations.
If you want to lower the dil/zen price from 450ish to 250ish, you need to add very desirable items to the game that can only be purchased with dilithium. And whatever that new price is, be it 150, 250, 350 or even 450 IS the new fair price because it's set by buyers and sellers alike. Arbitrarily deciding that some other price is "fair" because it sounds nice is just nonsense.
Yep.. all of this.
I don't believe that kind of nonsense. PWE sells more than enough ZEN regularly and there are ZEN sales regularly. A static value would actually encourage me to buy more ZEN when ZEN is on sale because its worth in Dilithium would still be the same. Black market ZEN and Dilithium isn't a thing because neither can be traded directly to another player. Gold spammers are still quite prominent in the game though, but anyone silly enough to try and obtain a lock box ship, EC, and such from a shady source is just asking for a bad outcome.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Farmers do provide a service to the paying customers, but one thing to consider is that the service might be less valuable now than it was years ago.
The reason is that the non-farmers earn more dil themselves thanks to random TFOs, the first patrol, endeavors, admiralty, and the increase of reputations to 13.
If a zen seller needed 10,000 dil, in 2014 they might have earned 1,000 and wanted to buy 9,000. Now they earn 6,000 as a side effect of playing and only want 4,000. They can more easily decide to earn the extra 4,000 themselves the next day if the dilex is too low, instead of it taking 9 more days.
That's only for small-scale buyers of course. A whale who wants their own Fleet might still buy millions of dil and the increased rewards are a drop in the bucket to them.
Making over $40 USD in a Zen a month is pretty sweet. you play for free and make Zen doing it. I do not know of a game that Pays you to play it. for its premium Items...
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
As someone who's done that, although with only seven characters, pretty much. However I've not been maxing them out every day. Just running Ferengi Admiralty. On average I can make about 100 Zen a day on good days. And that's if I don't use that Dilithium for other things like Rep projects or pushing a bit on a Fleet project.
*points at my sig*
I don't make that claim lightly. I DID grind out those packs. Was a lot of work, even passively via Admiralty, but its doable.
However even I have to admit something like the Legendary Pack may be beyond even my grinding skills. Doable yes, but that would also mean resisting getting anything else until you get the pack.
I am testing a few theory's I have regarding Dil, and "Math" LOL. but the way I see it, in the long run concerning the 500 Dilithium cap...
if it hits 500 and sustains it longer than a day, the cap will probably get removed to something higher within a week. Just my personal prediction. They may try to not let that happen however, but if it locks at 500, they probably will take action in some form or another. Just a gut feeling haha nothing to be concerned about
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking, but some of the scale of their pricing is off like 2m for a costume?? I could see that maybe for a ship, or reclaim gear, but not just a costume. I mean I could be wrong but it would have to be a pretty amazing Costume haha.
"bortaS bIr jablu'DI' reH QaQqu' nay'"
Revenge is a Dish, Best Served Cold ~ Khan Noonien Singh