If the rate that evilmark444 felt was fair to him was in place, with the exchange rate of 500 dil to 1 zen, 1 character's daily refinement for a player without liftetime sub and without a fleet (in this case, 8,000) would equal around 16 zen. If the refinement for the dilithum mine is in play, this is bumped to 500 more, so around 17 zen. That means for 1 character, getting a single C-store ship would be 3000 zen or 1,500,000 dilithium, which would take a little over 6 months to accumulate.
A large factor in my opinion on this matter is my absolute hatred for the F2P concept, my despising of the people who first came up with it, my anger at the many development teams that have implemented F2P models into their games, and my extreme bitterness towards players who pushed devs to attempt it and who have made the concept a success, not just here but in the entire gaming industry.
If it were up to me F2P wouldn't exist at all and every ship would be available to everyone for nothing more than a simple $15 subscription, so imo six months for one ship is a pretty good deal.
Whether you like it or not, the reason F2P exists is largely because sub models do not work for every game, including this one. Creative people found a different way to monetize that works. Thankfully the early adopters didn't get screwed by the change to F2P here and have seen their gamble pay off.
I have a lot more I could say on this topic, but I don't want to derail this thread. So for now I'll just say that I will never, EVER have anything remotely positive to say about F2P, and nothing anybody says will ever change that.
Well the thing here, the subscription ones aren't fairing as well either. Looks at those WoW, SWTOR, FF XIV and such. The F2P model came about more as experiment, than anything else. One that has proven itself to work. However, just like the aforementioned games, it depends a lot on the player base.
For example WoW, it was going strong at 14 million subscribers through Classic, Burning Crusade, and Wrath of the Lich King. This was during the time that the game was difficult, gear was hard to come by, raids were challenging, and getting that odd item or raid achievement left one withe a sense of accomplishment. Then Cataclysm came about, and they instituted more of the easy mode gearing that had tested out with the release of Trial of the Grand Crusader and Icecrown Citadel. This was one thing that many, including myself, would cost them players. Which it did. Between Cataclysm and Warlords of Draenor, the continued induction of easy mode cost them half their subscribers. Their latest attempts Legion, Battle for Aezuroth, and Classic, hasn't done anything to recoup said subscriptions. So, this is the players, or in this case consumers, showing the company what they think of it. This means a monthly subscription isn't the answer either.
STO had a monthly, but the company decided it was better to do away with it. Why is that? Well, because if you paid monthly sub once, you got to keep everything for a subscriber. So there was no need to pay more than the $15 one time. Thus it means the monthly subscription was not profitable enough to keep. My guess here is that it was more of an oversight at the time of release, due to the rush CBS put on it, leading to it's removal. Because by the time they could address it, it was already to late, and removal was the only viable option.
Now you say you have nothing good to say about F2P players. Guess what, most of them don't care what you think. However, I have more respect for the person that's dedicated enough to accomplish things through working at it, than I ever will someone that pays their way to it. Since, as someone pointed out, someone has to buy the zen in order for someone else to buy the zen off them. Cryptics business model has kept the game running for 10 years. How many other F2P games can claim that?
But this makes me curious. While I've been on all sides of gaming from Monthly sub, to Buy to Play, to Free to play. Some of which have been shutdown over the years. If you can't agree on the company's business model to keep the game running. Why do you even bother playing? Why not go play one of your precious monthly sub games instead? Personally, I agree with more, than I disagree with. Their business model is one of them because it works. If I disagree with that at any point, I'll just leave the game. I mean my only disagreements with the game right now are, that it's to easy and the visual spam from abilities needs to go(whether this is permanently via code, or via graphics setting, doesn't matter as long as it's gone.).
Now you say you have nothing good to say about F2P players.
@trennan This is NOT what I said at all. Aside from expressing some bitterness in a post before that I never said anything negative about F2P PLAYERS at all. In the post you quoted I said I would never have anything good to say about F2P specifically, as in the concept itself, the business model and it's many variations.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but I had to respond to this blatantly false statement.
Now you say you have nothing good to say about F2P players.
@trennan This is NOT what I said at all. Aside from expressing some bitterness in a post before that I never said anything negative about F2P PLAYERS at all. In the post you quoted I said I would never have anything good to say about F2P specifically, as in the concept itself, the business model and it's many variations.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but I had to respond to this blatantly false statement.
Why not go play one of your precious monthly sub games instead?
I still play WoW as well, including raiding every Sunday night.
I probably did misread it. I do have a bad habit of skimming as I read.
But to put things side by side here. WoW lost half their subs, bring them down to 7 million players. This was as of Legion. The last posted metrics that I remember for STo was the anniversary last year, where total STO players was 7.5 million. So a player base just as strong as WoW's. So, there's nothing really one can say against Cryptic's business model there. The main difference is that Blizzard gets to keep all they money from their subs. Cryptic has to pay CBS and PWE for licensing and all. If they got to keep it all, I'm sure we'd be playing an entirely different game than we are now.
I mean WowW is technically free to play, as long as you can farm up the gold to buy 2 game tokens per month. So are you going to think negatively upon WoW's business model knowing that? Or is more akin to how the dilex works here?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I mean WowW is technically free to play, as long as you can farm up the gold to buy 2 game tokens per month. So are you going to think negatively upon WoW's business model knowing that? Or is more akin to how the dilex works here?
WoW tokens aren't really the same as F2P imo. Sure, people get to play the game without paying, but only because another player paid for them (more than a normal sub infact). It is impossible for anyone to play WoW without someone giving Blizzard money for the 30 day sub. Also, with the exception of a small number of premium mounts and pets (which are 100% cosmetic only, unlike STO ships), all items are still available to everyone through gameplay (loot, quest reward, or crafting) at no additional charge. WoW Tokens are also a big middle finger to 3rd party gold sellers which is always a plus, though Lockbox Keys play a similar role in STOs economy.
I'm not horribly concerned about it being high, it's how quickly it went up. It seems like only maybe a month or two ago (or so it seemed to ME, anyway) that it was in the mid-200s. What changed?
It hasn't been mid 200s for years. New Fleet holdings tend to have some kind of impact on the exchange... until the big fleets finish their holding. The DL Store outfits knocked the price down a couple points, but then was instantly countered by an event.
Then something is up with my brain, because I'm fairly sure it did not go this high until somewhere around December. And we haven't had a new fleet holding in two years.
First time it dropped down into the upper 200s (from 400s) was early December 2016 coinciding with the first Phoenix Event. The last time it was in the upper 200s was mid July 2018, again coinciding with a Phoenix Event. Since then, Phoenix Events have had and are having very little effect on the Dilithium Exchange.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I mean WowW is technically free to play, as long as you can farm up the gold to buy 2 game tokens per month. So are you going to think negatively upon WoW's business model knowing that? Or is more akin to how the dilex works here?
WoW tokens aren't really the same as F2P imo. Sure, people get to play the game without paying, but only because another player paid for them (more than a normal sub infact). It is impossible for anyone to play WoW without someone giving Blizzard money for the 30 day sub. Also, with the exception of a small number of premium mounts and pets (which are 100% cosmetic only, unlike STO ships), all items are still available to everyone through gameplay (loot, quest reward, or crafting) at no additional charge. WoW Tokens are also a big middle finger to 3rd party gold sellers which is always a plus, though Lockbox Keys play a similar role in STOs economy.
True. Though I'm sure we'd see something similar here. But, there's the PWE factor. Same concept, just a different approach. But then PWE doesn't really care, or invest, in the games they own. They only care if it turns a profit. Which for them STO is one of their three top earning games.Which makes me wonder what kind of game we'd have if PWE wasn't involved. Would it even have a Dilex? But this would be a topic for a different thread.
However, as you pointed out, someoner has to buy the WoW token to sell it. The same thing happens with the dilex. Someone has to buy the zen, in order to sell it. I just keep in mind some of that is likely from the LTS payout. But that just puts the WoW token and Key market in the same spot with bots. Just another means of making gold, or EC. Both are items bots can use to keep their gold/EC sales going. The only difference there is, with WoW you can see the name of the seller and make a relatively sound judgement on whether or not it's a bot. We can't see that with STO, so we don't know if we're buying from a bot or not.
As for the bots, I get the occasional in-game mail about EC sales. I haven't seen a chat add in years. This could be because my block list is still full of block EC sellers that go all the way back to 2012. I'm sure there's a few players mixed in as well. But the overwhelming majority of it is blocked bots.
When I started playing in 2014 dilithium was in the 90s.
Back then people considered 480 dil for completing a STF (TFO) as a real reward not pocket change. There were no 50,000 dil event rewards, 13 x 30,000 dil reputations, or Admiralty dil pinatas.
And we hiked uphill to Earth Spacedock through the snow, both ways!
Now that dil flows in rivers, it's not surprising that it's lost more than three-fourths of its value. Massive increases in supply of dil, without matching increases in zen.
It's not too high. And if you think it is, buy Zen and offer it for a lower price while reducing demand for it.
You're telling people that they demand too much of a virtual currency that can be obtained freely and basically unlimitedly, while you're taking stuff that cost them real money.
If you're not willing to commit more virtual currency, why the heck would it be reasonable to expect sellers to offer more of a real one to get the same amount of virtual currency while their real ones could be used to buy plenty of other things in the real world?
People should stop complaining that things are too expensive when it's other people that are making it available in the first place. It's the same story with lockbox stuff: other players are using their hard earned money to open boxes where most people avoid doing that.
It's fine if you make that choice, but don't tell the people who are selling their stuff that they're asking too much when you don't want to commit resources to acquire the stuff through the only method that is required to bring it into the game yourself.
I rarely sell Zen, but I'm glad that those who do, at least get the most out of their hard earned money.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
And btw, if you went to a supermarket and told the people there that their stuff is too pricely, they'd make the same suggestion that I'm offering now: don't buy it if you think it's too expensive.
Simply put, you don't walk up to someone to show interests in his goods, only to complain that you're not willing to pay the asked amount for it. It's simply illogical.
The economically logical thing to do, would be to show no interest in his goods and thus lower demand for it.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Dilithium Exchange is to High at 453 it really needs to go back down to 155-230 range LOL why did you all get it so high again?
Cryptic decided to allow Phoenix upgrades 24/7 which massively cuts down the amount of dilithium needed to upgraded gear and upgrading gear was one off, if not the main way of removing dilithium from the game.
The problem is Cryptic keep reducing how much dilithium we need to use in game while at the same time massively increasing our incoming dilithium.
And btw, if you went to a supermarket and told the people there that their stuff is too pricely, they'd make the same suggestion that I'm offering now: don't buy it if you think it's too expensive.
Simply put, you don't walk up to someone to show interests in his goods, only to complain that you're not willing to pay the asked amount for it. It's simply illogical.
The economically logical thing to do, would be to show no interest in his goods and thus lower demand for it.
What! It is not illogical that is perfectly normal. It is a fundamental part of trading and bartering going up to people showing interest in the goods saying you are not willing to pay the amount asked. That's perfectly logical not illogical. Don't tell me you just accept the price shown and pay full price all the time or just walk away!!! Even in a supermarket you do not pay the price shown you use various methods to get the price down.
You do not just walk away to show to lower demand. You get the price down by bartering or other methods.
And btw, if you went to a supermarket and told the people there that their stuff is too pricely, they'd make the same suggestion that I'm offering now: don't buy it if you think it's too expensive.
Simply put, you don't walk up to someone to show interests in his goods, only to complain that you're not willing to pay the asked amount for it. It's simply illogical.
The economically logical thing to do, would be to show no interest in his goods and thus lower demand for it.
What! It is not illogical that is perfectly normal. It is a fundamental part of trading and bartering going up to people showing interest in the goods saying you are not willing to pay the amount asked. That's perfectly logical not illogical. Don't tell me you just accept the price shown and pay full price all the time!!! Even in a supermarket you do not pay the price shown you use various methods to get the price down.
You do not just walk away to show to lower demand. You get the price down by bartering or other methods.
Let me rephrase it: you don't show interest by telling someone that you absolutely want to have his stuff, for which you have no other way of obtaining it, if you're not willing to pay the price he asks.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
The supermarket example may not have been a good one. The point is, zen sellers have absolutely no reason whatsoever to sell their zen cheaper. Because they know that it's worth as much as the current going price.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Dilithium Exchange is to High at 453 it really needs to go back down to 155-230 range LOL why did you all get it so high again?
Cryptic decided to allow Phoenix upgrades 24/7 which massively cuts down the amount of dilithium needed to upgraded gear and upgrading gear was one off, if not the main way of removing dilithium from the game.
The problem is Cryptic keep reducing how much dilithium we need to use in game while at the same time massively increasing our incoming dilithium.
Had they increased the need for dilithium, people would be whining about 'the grind'. It's hardly a problem.
It may be a problem for those who want to have the latest C-store ships but have other people pay for them.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Basically, the high exchange rate is indeed an indication that most stuff that requires resources that can be obtained for free (like upgrading gear), can be done pretty easily in the game.
Stuff (like a C-store ship) that requires, one way or the other, real money - a resource that cannot be obtained freely and which arguably has more value to most people - is getting more expensive. It's as it should be.
Your and my purple rocks that can only be used in a computer game, are not more valuable (and stuff bought with it should not be obtained more cheaply at a lower exchange rate) than someone else's money that he could have used for literally thousands of other things. Apparently, and, not surprisingly.
That's what this high exchange rate tells you and it should not surprise or offend anyone.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Dilithium is not obtained freely. Stop saying that nonsense.
It must be earned which takes time. It must be refined which takes time. It is a limited resource subject to scarcity like any other and that is why it has value. If it were free, it would have value of exactly zero.
Let me rephrase it: you don't show interest by telling someone that you absolutely want to have his stuff, for which you have no other way of obtaining it, if you're not willing to pay the price he asks.[/quote]
This will be a very unpopular point, but the reason that there is so much dilithium washing around the game is because the daily refining cap is per character and not per account.
I refine on three characters a day. I give half of what I refine to my fleet and save the rest. I could easily create more characters and refine even more dilithium - not difficult, I would just have to cycle through Admiralty on some more toons.
But for a new player without my armada of ships giving me Admiralty cards on every toon, this is a much tougher proposition.
Ironically, I'd probably buy Zen with real cash if I wasn't able to get what I want from just cycling Admiralty on three toons.
Dilithium is not obtained freely. Stop saying that nonsense.
It must be earned which takes time. It must be refined which takes time. It is a limited resource subject to scarcity like any other and that is why it has value. If it were free, it would have value of exactly zero.
I meant freely in the sense that you can collect it whenever you want, in whichever way you want.
Which isn't the case with earning a salary that has to pay for the Zen.
You're also nitpicking and trying to turn this into a semantic debate by using a different definition than what is commonly meant with 'free'.
Yes, purple rocks may have value because they're not obtained without effort. But that wasn't the point and I never said they don't have a value. I explained why real money is more valuable and hence, why you need more purple rocks to buy it or currencies that are bought with it.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Let me rephrase it: you don't show interest by telling someone that you absolutely want to have his stuff, for which you have no other way of obtaining it, if you're not willing to pay the price he asks.[/quote]
Such is the danger of a monopoly[/quote]
Except it isn't. There are possibly thousands or tens of thousands of people who have Zen and are selling it.
Maybe 'the price he asks' should be replaced with 'the price dictated by the market' then, but I assume you got the point.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Either way, if people think their purple rocks are more valuable in terms of Zen than the current rate indicates or, equivalently, they want to claim that real money isn't as valuable in terms of virtual, pink rocks as the current rate suggests, they're free to buy more Zen with that real money.
I mean, if real money is not that valuable, what exactly is the problem?
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Comments
Well the thing here, the subscription ones aren't fairing as well either. Looks at those WoW, SWTOR, FF XIV and such. The F2P model came about more as experiment, than anything else. One that has proven itself to work. However, just like the aforementioned games, it depends a lot on the player base.
For example WoW, it was going strong at 14 million subscribers through Classic, Burning Crusade, and Wrath of the Lich King. This was during the time that the game was difficult, gear was hard to come by, raids were challenging, and getting that odd item or raid achievement left one withe a sense of accomplishment. Then Cataclysm came about, and they instituted more of the easy mode gearing that had tested out with the release of Trial of the Grand Crusader and Icecrown Citadel. This was one thing that many, including myself, would cost them players. Which it did. Between Cataclysm and Warlords of Draenor, the continued induction of easy mode cost them half their subscribers. Their latest attempts Legion, Battle for Aezuroth, and Classic, hasn't done anything to recoup said subscriptions. So, this is the players, or in this case consumers, showing the company what they think of it. This means a monthly subscription isn't the answer either.
STO had a monthly, but the company decided it was better to do away with it. Why is that? Well, because if you paid monthly sub once, you got to keep everything for a subscriber. So there was no need to pay more than the $15 one time. Thus it means the monthly subscription was not profitable enough to keep. My guess here is that it was more of an oversight at the time of release, due to the rush CBS put on it, leading to it's removal. Because by the time they could address it, it was already to late, and removal was the only viable option.
Now you say you have nothing good to say about F2P players. Guess what, most of them don't care what you think. However, I have more respect for the person that's dedicated enough to accomplish things through working at it, than I ever will someone that pays their way to it. Since, as someone pointed out, someone has to buy the zen in order for someone else to buy the zen off them. Cryptics business model has kept the game running for 10 years. How many other F2P games can claim that?
But this makes me curious. While I've been on all sides of gaming from Monthly sub, to Buy to Play, to Free to play. Some of which have been shutdown over the years. If you can't agree on the company's business model to keep the game running. Why do you even bother playing? Why not go play one of your precious monthly sub games instead? Personally, I agree with more, than I disagree with. Their business model is one of them because it works. If I disagree with that at any point, I'll just leave the game. I mean my only disagreements with the game right now are, that it's to easy and the visual spam from abilities needs to go(whether this is permanently via code, or via graphics setting, doesn't matter as long as it's gone.).
@trennan This is NOT what I said at all. Aside from expressing some bitterness in a post before that I never said anything negative about F2P PLAYERS at all. In the post you quoted I said I would never have anything good to say about F2P specifically, as in the concept itself, the business model and it's many variations.
I really don't want to derail this thread, but I had to respond to this blatantly false statement.
The Star Trek license, that's the only reason. I still play WoW as well, including raiding every Sunday night.
I probably did misread it. I do have a bad habit of skimming as I read.
But to put things side by side here. WoW lost half their subs, bring them down to 7 million players. This was as of Legion. The last posted metrics that I remember for STo was the anniversary last year, where total STO players was 7.5 million. So a player base just as strong as WoW's. So, there's nothing really one can say against Cryptic's business model there. The main difference is that Blizzard gets to keep all they money from their subs. Cryptic has to pay CBS and PWE for licensing and all. If they got to keep it all, I'm sure we'd be playing an entirely different game than we are now.
I mean WowW is technically free to play, as long as you can farm up the gold to buy 2 game tokens per month. So are you going to think negatively upon WoW's business model knowing that? Or is more akin to how the dilex works here?
It's been up over 400 for months. Take a look at these Buy Dititium prices:
7/3/2019 391
7/4/2019 415
7/17/2019 422
7/17/2019 412
7/18/2019 439
8/9/2019 399
8/31/2019 417
9/28/2019 445
9/29/2019 445
10/3/2019 411
10/7/2019 415
11/22/2019 496
2/1/2020 452
2/15/2010 459
2/16/2020 459
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
WoW tokens aren't really the same as F2P imo. Sure, people get to play the game without paying, but only because another player paid for them (more than a normal sub infact). It is impossible for anyone to play WoW without someone giving Blizzard money for the 30 day sub. Also, with the exception of a small number of premium mounts and pets (which are 100% cosmetic only, unlike STO ships), all items are still available to everyone through gameplay (loot, quest reward, or crafting) at no additional charge. WoW Tokens are also a big middle finger to 3rd party gold sellers which is always a plus, though Lockbox Keys play a similar role in STOs economy.
Then something is up with my brain, because I'm fairly sure it did not go this high until somewhere around December. And we haven't had a new fleet holding in two years.
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
True. Though I'm sure we'd see something similar here. But, there's the PWE factor. Same concept, just a different approach. But then PWE doesn't really care, or invest, in the games they own. They only care if it turns a profit. Which for them STO is one of their three top earning games.Which makes me wonder what kind of game we'd have if PWE wasn't involved. Would it even have a Dilex? But this would be a topic for a different thread.
However, as you pointed out, someoner has to buy the WoW token to sell it. The same thing happens with the dilex. Someone has to buy the zen, in order to sell it. I just keep in mind some of that is likely from the LTS payout. But that just puts the WoW token and Key market in the same spot with bots. Just another means of making gold, or EC. Both are items bots can use to keep their gold/EC sales going. The only difference there is, with WoW you can see the name of the seller and make a relatively sound judgement on whether or not it's a bot. We can't see that with STO, so we don't know if we're buying from a bot or not.
As for the bots, I get the occasional in-game mail about EC sales. I haven't seen a chat add in years. This could be because my block list is still full of block EC sellers that go all the way back to 2012. I'm sure there's a few players mixed in as well. But the overwhelming majority of it is blocked bots.
Back then people considered 480 dil for completing a STF (TFO) as a real reward not pocket change. There were no 50,000 dil event rewards, 13 x 30,000 dil reputations, or Admiralty dil pinatas.
And we hiked uphill to Earth Spacedock through the snow, both ways!
Now that dil flows in rivers, it's not surprising that it's lost more than three-fourths of its value. Massive increases in supply of dil, without matching increases in zen.
I think that was around the time all the big fleets were working on the original Starbase holding.
You're telling people that they demand too much of a virtual currency that can be obtained freely and basically unlimitedly, while you're taking stuff that cost them real money.
If you're not willing to commit more virtual currency, why the heck would it be reasonable to expect sellers to offer more of a real one to get the same amount of virtual currency while their real ones could be used to buy plenty of other things in the real world?
People should stop complaining that things are too expensive when it's other people that are making it available in the first place. It's the same story with lockbox stuff: other players are using their hard earned money to open boxes where most people avoid doing that.
It's fine if you make that choice, but don't tell the people who are selling their stuff that they're asking too much when you don't want to commit resources to acquire the stuff through the only method that is required to bring it into the game yourself.
I rarely sell Zen, but I'm glad that those who do, at least get the most out of their hard earned money.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Simply put, you don't walk up to someone to show interests in his goods, only to complain that you're not willing to pay the asked amount for it. It's simply illogical.
The economically logical thing to do, would be to show no interest in his goods and thus lower demand for it.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
The problem is Cryptic keep reducing how much dilithium we need to use in game while at the same time massively increasing our incoming dilithium.
You do not just walk away to show to lower demand. You get the price down by bartering or other methods.
And why isn't this an F.C.T. topic already?
Let me rephrase it: you don't show interest by telling someone that you absolutely want to have his stuff, for which you have no other way of obtaining it, if you're not willing to pay the price he asks.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Had they increased the need for dilithium, people would be whining about 'the grind'. It's hardly a problem.
It may be a problem for those who want to have the latest C-store ships but have other people pay for them.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Stuff (like a C-store ship) that requires, one way or the other, real money - a resource that cannot be obtained freely and which arguably has more value to most people - is getting more expensive. It's as it should be.
Your and my purple rocks that can only be used in a computer game, are not more valuable (and stuff bought with it should not be obtained more cheaply at a lower exchange rate) than someone else's money that he could have used for literally thousands of other things. Apparently, and, not surprisingly.
That's what this high exchange rate tells you and it should not surprise or offend anyone.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
> (Quote)
>
> I think that was around the time all the big fleets were working on the original Starbase holding.
Good point.
It must be earned which takes time. It must be refined which takes time. It is a limited resource subject to scarcity like any other and that is why it has value. If it were free, it would have value of exactly zero.
[/quote]
Let me rephrase it: you don't show interest by telling someone that you absolutely want to have his stuff, for which you have no other way of obtaining it, if you're not willing to pay the price he asks.[/quote]
Such is the danger of a monopoly
I refine on three characters a day. I give half of what I refine to my fleet and save the rest. I could easily create more characters and refine even more dilithium - not difficult, I would just have to cycle through Admiralty on some more toons.
But for a new player without my armada of ships giving me Admiralty cards on every toon, this is a much tougher proposition.
Ironically, I'd probably buy Zen with real cash if I wasn't able to get what I want from just cycling Admiralty on three toons.
I meant freely in the sense that you can collect it whenever you want, in whichever way you want.
Which isn't the case with earning a salary that has to pay for the Zen.
You're also nitpicking and trying to turn this into a semantic debate by using a different definition than what is commonly meant with 'free'.
Yes, purple rocks may have value because they're not obtained without effort. But that wasn't the point and I never said they don't have a value. I explained why real money is more valuable and hence, why you need more purple rocks to buy it or currencies that are bought with it.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Let me rephrase it: you don't show interest by telling someone that you absolutely want to have his stuff, for which you have no other way of obtaining it, if you're not willing to pay the price he asks.[/quote]
Such is the danger of a monopoly[/quote]
Except it isn't. There are possibly thousands or tens of thousands of people who have Zen and are selling it.
Maybe 'the price he asks' should be replaced with 'the price dictated by the market' then, but I assume you got the point.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I mean, if real money is not that valuable, what exactly is the problem?
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.