I hope, that the devs won't change the hirogens, yes they are a pain in the "something" to fight, but at least they are interesting . It is like the cardassian galor or the voth ships, when you use your brain, they become easy targets.
Darkbladejk: Play smarter not harder
exactly
I don't understand why players want foes to be just paper targets; easy to kill, without abilities etc. I personally would like to see npcs having more skills to use. The more the foes will be difficult to fight (abilities, speed etc), the more I would be happy.
Sadly the borg are the reference foe, boring npcs without interesting abilities and who use them incorrectly (shield drain even when the players have already lost their shields)
Really Devs? This makes combat drag on for far to long.
Anyone know how to counter this? Cause Im sick of enemy NPCs spamming this on me. Every time I see "Hunter Escorts" Im like "Nope *leaves mission map*."
Not trying to be mean but the biggest offender right now are the Vaadwaur Supremacy ships. With that damn artillery with 360 degree arc and can be spammed like crazy, they have jam sensors, sub nuke and the tractor beam that is not a tractor beam so you can't remove with polarized hull. The game since sometime is just a one shot fest that is made to push idio... er, players into buying loot boxes in hope to get the new "I win button" of the current expansion.
Really Devs? This makes combat drag on for far to long.
Anyone know how to counter this? Cause Im sick of enemy NPCs spamming this on me. Every time I see "Hunter Escorts" Im like "Nope *leaves mission map*."
Not trying to be mean but the biggest offender right now are the Vaadwaur Supremacy ships. With that damn artillery with 360 degree arc and can be spammed like crazy, they have jam sensors, sub nuke and the tractor beam that is not a tractor beam so you can't remove with polarized hull. The game since sometime is just a one shot fest that is made to push idio... er, players into buying loot boxes in hope to get the new "I win button" of the current expansion.
Not trying to be a meanie myself, but Vaadwaur Supremacy ships, is that still a thing?! I vaguely remember them in one of the early Delta quadrant patrols. And I remember many ppl had trouble with them. But thank gawd you can now make a new Jem, and start at lv 65, right off the bat. No more Delta quadrant for me.
SNB is annoying. It's not a challenge, really, as there are counters, even if the effectiveness can be questioned at times.
Does this ability actually make anyone enjoy a battle more? Honestly, I feel that it could disappear altogether. I barely even notice, except for leveling ships, where, as was said, it feels just an annoyance rather than a challenge to overcome. Like doing "Wanted" with no boff powers slotted. It's not a problem, it's just unnecessarily time consuming
As for L2P, you do realize Hirogen, in The Nith Rule, are a random thing, right? Sometimes you get them, sometimes you get Terrans and others. That makes 'being aware of my foe' rathet tricky, without my crystal ball.
You can swap boff skills any time you aren't in red alert. You don't HAVE to finish a patrols with the same skills you started with.
As for L2P, you do realize Hirogen, in The Nith Rule, are a random thing, right? Sometimes you get them, sometimes you get Terrans and others. That makes 'being aware of my foe' rathet tricky, without my crystal ball.
You can swap boff skills any time you aren't in red alert. You don't HAVE to finish a patrols with the same skills you started with.
I know. But with Helmsman, I just bravely fly away, away. Like echatty, I just do em on Normal, as I got many new ships now to level up.
SNB is annoying. It's not a challenge, really, as there are counters, even if the effectiveness can be questioned at times.
Does this ability actually make anyone enjoy a battle more? Honestly, I feel that it could disappear altogether. I barely even notice, except for leveling ships, where, as was said, it feels just an annoyance rather than a challenge to overcome. Like doing "Wanted" with no boff powers slotted. It's not a problem, it's just unnecessarily time consuming
'Wanted' is the old Argala patrol, right? It's sooooooo 2018. No, seriously, if you're looking to level your ships quickly, do the Ninth and Rescue patrols. 1 round usually suffices to max level Mastery in one fell swoop.
*look at this*
*looks at my ET, ST, and MW autocleansing*
*looks at this and shrugs*
More damage isn't always the answer. I could even improve upon this with traits that offer resistances and such to this kind of thing. The answer is there, and it's not more damage.
*look at this*
*looks at my ET, ST, and MW autocleansing*
*looks at this and shrugs*
More damage isn't always the answer. I could even improve upon this with traits that offer resistances and such to this kind of thing. The answer is there, and it's not more damage.
Yeah, good luck finding a Trait against subnuc. The anwer is there, and it's not more Traits. (Although I could always use more Trait slots, of course)
*look at this*
*looks at my ET, ST, and MW autocleansing*
*looks at this and shrugs*
More damage isn't always the answer. I could even improve upon this with traits that offer resistances and such to this kind of thing. The answer is there, and it's not more damage.
Yeah, good luck finding a Trait against subnuc. The anwer is there, and it's not more Traits. (Although I could always use more Trait slots, of course)
I'd have to look through what I have trait and gear wise, along with what options I could acquire. But, generally I already have the counter to this. I just don't play the patrols. If I'm doing ship mastery, I hit TFO's. It takes longer, but the payout is far better. Gravity Kills is one of my favorites for this.
But that's just me. I'm in no hurry and am strong enough as it is to make leveling a ship mastery into something to go do when I'm bored enough to go do it.
Keel'el (doff) can probably cleanse subnuc too, but it's chance-based, and depends on activation of EPtX powers -- precisely the things things that suffer slowwdown from subnuc. So, best to just cleanse it the traditional way, with ST, or fly away for a bit.
Reading your strangely harsh comment here, I wonder, have you have ever considered recusing yourself from discussions like this? You take both a 'threatening stance' ("I advise you to drop that accusation and drop it now.") and, at the same time, wack people over the head with, ironically, the same kind of posturing I am so weary of in these forums, essentially just telling ppl to L2P ("Learn to play!"). You are a moderator. You cannot be both in the fray, and above it.
As for L2P, you do realize Hirogen, in The Nith Rule, are a random thing, right? Sometimes you get them, sometimes you get Terrans and others. That makes 'being aware of my foe' rathet tricky, without my crystal ball.
And this is the not so fun part of text only communication as alot is missed. With that said a couple of things need to be clarified. First, the green text next to my name does not disqualify me or my cohorts from voicing our thoughts on matters, nor does it shield us from possible disagreement with our thoughts and opinions. Folks are allowed to voice, thoughts, opinions, and even disagreements with other users provided of course it's kept civil. The thing I told you to drop was the whole "grandstanding" thing as that came off as accusatory. You're now saying you didn't mean it to come off that harsh in a later post. Alright fair enough, I will give you benefit of the doubt until I am given reason otherwise. Contrary to popular belief I really don't like busting out "the sword of damocles" unless I have to. And yes someone actually called it that once.
Secondly, I did not say anything remotely close to "L2P or you suck" or anything remotely close to that. What I said was to play smarter not harder. If the current strategy is not working, then vary your strategy. Not every enemy can be approached with the same tactics. If you approach voth and just try to spambar them to death, they're going to pop that shield and you'll be dead by your own hand before you know it. With the hirogen, if you pop all your powers at once every time, they're going to sub-nuc you and you'll be taking alot longer than necessary. I'm also aware that folks aren't always fighting hirogen, nor was I suggesting as such, however my suggestions assume the person is in fact fighting hirogen. Like I said, hirogen can't spam you with sub-nucs in the numbers folks were suggesting, even on elite. Otherwise if someone is suggesting otherwise, that would be a bug which I would need to report.
Fortunately there are counters to the hirogen. you can bait their sub-nucs out with a low cooldown power like aux to sif. once the 3 ships have fired off their sub nucs, clear the debuff with sci team, then throw everything and the kitchen sink at them. One sci team will clear all stacks of sub-nuc currently applied to your character. If sci team isn't available, there are things like the Temporal Phase Overcharged Core, Photonic Officer, Doff effects, and similar powers that can reduce cooldowns. A cheap and easy to put together build can be done easily enough with mk xii very rare gear from the story missions if gear is an issue. If folks are still having issues after doing what I suggested, they are free to PM me and I will help them make adjustments or nuke the problem hirogen for them myself.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Reading your strangely harsh comment here, I wonder, have you have ever considered recusing yourself from discussions like this? You take both a 'threatening stance' ("I advise you to drop that accusation and drop it now.") and, at the same time, wack people over the head with, ironically, the same kind of posturing I am so weary of in these forums, essentially just telling ppl to L2P ("Learn to play!"). You are a moderator. You cannot be both in the fray, and above it.
As for L2P, you do realize Hirogen, in The Nith Rule, are a random thing, right? Sometimes you get them, sometimes you get Terrans and others. That makes 'being aware of my foe' rathet tricky, without my crystal ball.
And this is the not so fun part of text only communication as alot is missed. With that said a couple of things need to be clarified. First, the green text next to my name does not disqualify me or my cohorts from voicing our thoughts on matters, nor does it shield us from possible disagreement with our thoughts and opinions. Folks are allowed to voice, thoughts, opinions, and even disagreements with other users provided of course it's kept civil. The thing I told you to drop was the whole "grandstanding" thing as that came off as accusatory. You're now saying you didn't mean it to come off that harsh in a later post. Alright fair enough, I will give you benefit of the doubt until I am given reason otherwise. Contrary to popular belief I really don't like busting out "the sword of damocles" unless I have to. And yes someone actually called it that once.
Secondly, I did not say anything remotely close to "L2P or you suck" or anything remotely close to that. What I said was to play smarter not harder. If the current strategy is not working, then vary your strategy. Not every enemy can be approached with the same tactics. If you approach voth and just try to spambar them to death, they're going to pop that shield and you'll be dead by your own hand before you know it. With the hirogen, if you pop all your powers at once every time, they're going to sub-nuc you and you'll be taking alot longer than necessary. I'm also aware that folks aren't always fighting hirogen, nor was I suggesting as such, however my suggestions assume the person is in fact fighting hirogen. Like I said, hirogen can't spam you with sub-nucs in the numbers folks were suggesting, even on elite. Otherwise if someone is suggesting otherwise, that would be a bug which I would need to report.
Fortunately there are counters to the hirogen. you can bait their sub-nucs out with a low cooldown power like aux to sif. once the 3 ships have fired off their sub nucs, clear the debuff with sci team, then throw everything and the kitchen sink at them. One sci team will clear all stacks of sub-nuc currently applied to your character. If sci team isn't available, there are things like the Temporal Phase Overcharged Core, Photonic Officer, Doff effects, and similar powers that can reduce cooldowns. A cheap and easy to put together build can be done easily enough with mk xii very rare gear from the story missions if gear is an issue. If folks are still having issues after doing what I suggested, they are free to PM me and I will help them make adjustments or nuke the problem hirogen for them myself.
Another strategy for Hirogen. Before they an even react, drop Grav Well, Subspace Vortex, and Plasma Storm on them. Then move into their rear arc. This counters the sub nuc beam, since it's a frontal attack. But then, what do I know. I mean, I'm just some one that flies raiders/escorts most of the time.
One tactic already mentioned is to wait for them to hit you with subnucs then clear the multiple stacks.
Now the base cooldown for players for Subnuc is 2 mins. Not exactly sure how often NPCs can hit you with it, though it does "feel" sooner. Hirogen will always if you are in the forward arc of their weapons hit you with subnuc as one of their first debuffs against you. So the second a group drops in on you, you can expect to get hit with multiple.
For example dark has already mentioned the counters, but these new patrols usually mean you will have multiple groups drop in one after the other.
However, you can use this to your advantage with planning out your engagement strategy. Instead of using all your counters be measured.
Engage the hirogen in their aft quarter, target known subnuc NPC ships first to decrease changes they will hit you, especially if you have massive alpha strike potential in your ship.
If you clear a group of subnucs but somehow one sneaky hirogen had one left, Dont clear it. Check to see the status of the wave. If it is close to being defeated wait until the next group warps in and hits you again, then clear the debuffs. Use measured responses, only use one clear at a time if you have multiple.
Additionally, being hit and suffering a subnuc debuff is not a death sentence. Depending on your ship and cleanese status you can live through the 30 second effects easily.
You need to know your ships capabilities and how long she can survive without the quick rotation of your BOFF abilities. Knowing your ships limit is key to knowing when to engage, when to feint, and when to run.
There are multiple strategies and tactics. Knowing how to utilize them against the hirogen is key.
OP, Subnucleonic Beam can be countered by Science Team. Once. I'd like to learn about both your build and the tactics you use when fighting Hirogen NPCs. All I can do is offer some (very) general advice otherwise.
As to, ahem, "grandstanding"... Unless you use the ALT-F4 keybind as your Alpha Strike, don't talk to me. Amateurs. :P
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
More broadly, perhaps, I dislike when ships use abilities that seem inappropriate for their "class." I mean, would anyone think the Hirogen are known as great scientists? No? Then why are they using a definitively science ability? That's not to say there should NEVER be Hirogen science officers, just that it should be something of a rarity.
The same goes with many of the other races.
unfortunately, it is entirely appropriate for hirogen to be using SNB, because they were the (only) ones to use it in the show
it still shouldn't be on their rank 1 vessels, but of any enemy group using it, they are the only one that actually has any RIGHT to it
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I really love how everyone keeps on saying "Just Use Sci team!" And ignoring the whole part where sci team will only clear sub nukes once, and if the sub nuke is reapplied then you're screwed.
I really love how everyone keeps on saying "Just Use Sci team!" And ignoring the whole part where sci team will only clear sub nukes once, and if the sub nuke is reapplied then you're screwed.
It's been addressed multiple times in this very thread.
More broadly, perhaps, I dislike when ships use abilities that seem inappropriate for their "class." I mean, would anyone think the Hirogen are known as great scientists? No? Then why are they using a definitively science ability? That's not to say there should NEVER be Hirogen science officers, just that it should be something of a rarity.
The same goes with many of the other races.
That would be great if not for the fact that Subnuke is actually a Hirogen ability.
I really love how everyone keeps on saying "Just Use Sci team!" And ignoring the whole part where sci team will only clear sub nukes once, and if the sub nuke is reapplied then you're screwed.
Yes, its always frustrating to run Ninth Rule and get Hirogen. I know none of my buffs will be useful so the run is going to give a lot less XP than most other enemies.
Huh, so THAT'S why Hirogen take longer to kill than other enemies. I'll agree that it's annoying, but it really doesn't do much more than increase the time to complete the mission and reduce the XP potential of the final stage of Ninth Rule. If any change was going to be made I could maybe see something like adding a 10 - 20 second immunity buff to Sci Team, but that's it.
I really love how everyone keeps on saying "Just Use Sci team!" And ignoring the whole part where sci team will only clear sub nukes once, and if the sub nuke is reapplied then you're screwed.
It's been addressed multiple times in this very thread.
More broadly, perhaps, I dislike when ships use abilities that seem inappropriate for their "class." I mean, would anyone think the Hirogen are known as great scientists? No? Then why are they using a definitively science ability? That's not to say there should NEVER be Hirogen science officers, just that it should be something of a rarity.
The same goes with many of the other races.
That would be great if not for the fact that Subnuke is actually a Hirogen ability.
If anything, it would be far more rare for non-Hirogen ships.
It has been by a couple people, yet many more keep on posting that exact remark, glossing over the posts that point out that Sci team isn't a real fix.
what Evilmark said is really all I would even want, if Sci team made you immune to sub nukes for like 15 seconds or so then it would remove almost all issues with the ability.
I really love how everyone keeps on saying "Just Use Sci team!" And ignoring the whole part where sci team will only clear sub nukes once, and if the sub nuke is reapplied then you're screwed.
It's been addressed multiple times in this very thread.
More broadly, perhaps, I dislike when ships use abilities that seem inappropriate for their "class." I mean, would anyone think the Hirogen are known as great scientists? No? Then why are they using a definitively science ability? That's not to say there should NEVER be Hirogen science officers, just that it should be something of a rarity.
The same goes with many of the other races.
That would be great if not for the fact that Subnuke is actually a Hirogen ability.
If anything, it would be far more rare for non-Hirogen ships.
It has been by a couple people, yet many more keep on posting that exact remark, glossing over the posts that point out that Sci team isn't a real fix.
what Evilmark said is really all I would even want, if Sci team made you immune to sub nukes for like 15 seconds or so then it would remove almost all issues with the ability.
Sci team is a real fix because it clears the ability when it is used by a specific enemy.
The fact that more enemies warp in after you kill that one, is something that always happens in the piece of content discussed here.
Which is of course one of the main reasons why people play it, so a request to change that would be nothing more than wanting many enemies and the skill points their deaths result in, without actually having to fight them and their full capabilities.
If players don't like the idea of encountering many waves of enemies because they might actually fight back, then perhaps they shouldn't look for content where this happens.
Moreover, subnuc beam can only be used when you're in front of an enemy vessel.
So if Sci team isn't good enough, move your ship. It really is that simple. Sometimes the game requires more than pressing spacebar.
Unless your DPS is extremely high, you cannot stay behind the Hirogen before they turn to subnuke you. They have multiple light maneuverable ships to SNB you with and can turn even in a grav well. It is easier with the Breen, because I think only the Chel Grets use SNB which turn a lot slower.
In fairness there are things that lower turn rate, but they typically have cooldowns too long to make them work for every spawn. The one thing that might be most viable is the trait press the advantage, provided you sit behind the spawn in point and can run FAW.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
> @fleetcaptain5#1134 said: > (Quote) > > Sci team is a real fix because it clears the ability when it is used by a specific enemy. > > The fact that more enemies warp in after you kill that one, is something that always happens in the piece of content discussed here. > > Which is of course one of the main reasons why people play it, so a request to change that would be nothing more than wanting many enemies and the skill points their deaths result in, without actually having to fight them and their full capabilities. > > > If players don't like the idea of encountering many waves of enemies because they might actually fight back, then perhaps they shouldn't look for content where this happens.
Umm the issue isn't that more enemies warp in after the first few(the timing between waves is enough that sci team isn't an issue)
The issue is fighting 8 or more ships that can all sub nuke you at once. Unless you're in an escort or running those competitive engines, you're not going to be able to get behind ALL of the ships easily, and even if you can, most of the hirogen ships are extremely maneuverable. Theyll almost certainly hit you with a sub nuke before you can kill them all, especially on higher difficulties.
Again and again I have to point out to you 8 SUB NUKES. Not 1, not 2 but often times 8 OR MORE. You keep ignoring that. Sci team is meaningless when it only cleanses once, and if you get sub nukes while it's on cooldown then you're just screwed. And most of the hirogen will not hit you with all their sub nukes at once. Their ai seems to greatly prefer only using it when there isn't already sub nukes on your ship. I usually only get hit by 1 or 2 at a time and the other ships wait until I've cleansed those or activate more buffs to hit me again.
And again, this isn't a complaint about the difficulty, this is a complaint about annoyance. Sub nukes don't really make you more likely to die, they just kind or ruin your day. Should every enemy in the game have control powers that exist for no purpose other than to annoy players?
> @fleetcaptain5#1134 said:
> (Quote)
>
> Sci team is a real fix because it clears the ability when it is used by a specific enemy.
>
> The fact that more enemies warp in after you kill that one, is something that always happens in the piece of content discussed here.
>
> Which is of course one of the main reasons why people play it, so a request to change that would be nothing more than wanting many enemies and the skill points their deaths result in, without actually having to fight them and their full capabilities.
>
>
> If players don't like the idea of encountering many waves of enemies because they might actually fight back, then perhaps they shouldn't look for content where this happens.
Umm the issue isn't that more enemies warp in after the first few(the timing between waves is enough that sci team isn't an issue)
The issue is fighting 8 or more ships that can all sub nuke you at once. Unless you're in an escort or running those competitive engines, you're not going to be able to get behind ALL of the ships easily, and even if you can, most of the hirogen ships are extremely maneuverable. Theyll almost certainly hit you with a sub nuke before you can kill them all, especially on higher difficulties.
Again and again I have to point out to you 8 SUB NUKES. Not 1, not 2 but often times 8 OR MORE. You keep ignoring that. Sci team is meaningless when it only cleanses once, and if you get sub nukes while it's on cooldown then you're just screwed. And most of the hirogen will not hit you with all their sub nukes at once. Their ai seems to greatly prefer only using it when there isn't already sub nukes on your ship. I usually only get hit by 1 or 2 at a time and the other ships wait until I've cleansed those or activate more buffs to hit me again.
And again, this isn't a complaint about the difficulty, this is a complaint about annoyance. Sub nukes don't really make you more likely to die, they just kind or ruin your day. Should every enemy in the game have control powers that exist for no purpose other than to annoy players?
I must say that I have never encountered multiple enemies using subnuc beam at the same time, or in quick succession.
Even if there are instances where this happens, it should still be easy to counter it.
Now, if this thread were about the thing that Heralds use and which (as far as I know) cannot be countered, I would agree that it's too annoying. But regular subnuc beam? Never had a problem with that.
Yes, it can be slightly annoying but it's also one of the few things that, if you find it annoying, require you to actually adapt to what an enemy is doing.
Moreover, subnuc beam can only be used when you're in front of an enemy vessel.
So if Sci team isn't good enough, move your ship. It really is that simple. Sometimes the game requires more than pressing spacebar.
Unless your DPS is extremely high, you cannot stay behind the Hirogen before they turn to subnuke you. They have multiple light maneuverable ships to SNB you with and can turn even in a grav well. It is easier with the Breen, because I think only the Chel Grets use SNB which turn a lot slower.
In fairness there are things that lower turn rate, but they typically have cooldowns too long to make them work for every spawn. The one thing that might be most viable is the trait press the advantage, provided you sit behind the spawn in point and can run FAW.
Isn't that also determined by control skills? I haven't had a dedicated toon for that so I wouldn't know.
Besides sci team btw, there are other things that remove debuffs. The Discovery reputation trait Landry's Loyalty is one of these and I think there are doffs that do the same thing.
Comments
exactly
I don't understand why players want foes to be just paper targets; easy to kill, without abilities etc. I personally would like to see npcs having more skills to use. The more the foes will be difficult to fight (abilities, speed etc), the more I would be happy.
Sadly the borg are the reference foe, boring npcs without interesting abilities and who use them incorrectly (shield drain even when the players have already lost their shields)
Not trying to be mean but the biggest offender right now are the Vaadwaur Supremacy ships. With that damn artillery with 360 degree arc and can be spammed like crazy, they have jam sensors, sub nuke and the tractor beam that is not a tractor beam so you can't remove with polarized hull. The game since sometime is just a one shot fest that is made to push idio... er, players into buying loot boxes in hope to get the new "I win button" of the current expansion.
Not trying to be a meanie myself, but Vaadwaur Supremacy ships, is that still a thing?! I vaguely remember them in one of the early Delta quadrant patrols. And I remember many ppl had trouble with them. But thank gawd you can now make a new Jem, and start at lv 65, right off the bat. No more Delta quadrant for me.
Does this ability actually make anyone enjoy a battle more? Honestly, I feel that it could disappear altogether. I barely even notice, except for leveling ships, where, as was said, it feels just an annoyance rather than a challenge to overcome. Like doing "Wanted" with no boff powers slotted. It's not a problem, it's just unnecessarily time consuming
My character Tsin'xing
Yes I can play Advanced if I want. I don't want to.
I know. But with Helmsman, I just bravely fly away, away.
'Wanted' is the old Argala patrol, right? It's sooooooo 2018.
*looks at my ET, ST, and MW autocleansing*
*looks at this and shrugs*
More damage isn't always the answer. I could even improve upon this with traits that offer resistances and such to this kind of thing. The answer is there, and it's not more damage.
Yeah, good luck finding a Trait against subnuc.
I'd have to look through what I have trait and gear wise, along with what options I could acquire. But, generally I already have the counter to this. I just don't play the patrols. If I'm doing ship mastery, I hit TFO's. It takes longer, but the payout is far better. Gravity Kills is one of my favorites for this.
But that's just me. I'm in no hurry and am strong enough as it is to make leveling a ship mastery into something to go do when I'm bored enough to go do it.
And this is the not so fun part of text only communication as alot is missed. With that said a couple of things need to be clarified. First, the green text next to my name does not disqualify me or my cohorts from voicing our thoughts on matters, nor does it shield us from possible disagreement with our thoughts and opinions. Folks are allowed to voice, thoughts, opinions, and even disagreements with other users provided of course it's kept civil. The thing I told you to drop was the whole "grandstanding" thing as that came off as accusatory. You're now saying you didn't mean it to come off that harsh in a later post. Alright fair enough, I will give you benefit of the doubt until I am given reason otherwise. Contrary to popular belief I really don't like busting out "the sword of damocles" unless I have to. And yes someone actually called it that once.
Secondly, I did not say anything remotely close to "L2P or you suck" or anything remotely close to that. What I said was to play smarter not harder. If the current strategy is not working, then vary your strategy. Not every enemy can be approached with the same tactics. If you approach voth and just try to spambar them to death, they're going to pop that shield and you'll be dead by your own hand before you know it. With the hirogen, if you pop all your powers at once every time, they're going to sub-nuc you and you'll be taking alot longer than necessary. I'm also aware that folks aren't always fighting hirogen, nor was I suggesting as such, however my suggestions assume the person is in fact fighting hirogen. Like I said, hirogen can't spam you with sub-nucs in the numbers folks were suggesting, even on elite. Otherwise if someone is suggesting otherwise, that would be a bug which I would need to report.
Fortunately there are counters to the hirogen. you can bait their sub-nucs out with a low cooldown power like aux to sif. once the 3 ships have fired off their sub nucs, clear the debuff with sci team, then throw everything and the kitchen sink at them. One sci team will clear all stacks of sub-nuc currently applied to your character. If sci team isn't available, there are things like the Temporal Phase Overcharged Core, Photonic Officer, Doff effects, and similar powers that can reduce cooldowns. A cheap and easy to put together build can be done easily enough with mk xii very rare gear from the story missions if gear is an issue. If folks are still having issues after doing what I suggested, they are free to PM me and I will help them make adjustments or nuke the problem hirogen for them myself.
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Another strategy for Hirogen. Before they an even react, drop Grav Well, Subspace Vortex, and Plasma Storm on them. Then move into their rear arc. This counters the sub nuc beam, since it's a frontal attack. But then, what do I know. I mean, I'm just some one that flies raiders/escorts most of the time.
Now the base cooldown for players for Subnuc is 2 mins. Not exactly sure how often NPCs can hit you with it, though it does "feel" sooner. Hirogen will always if you are in the forward arc of their weapons hit you with subnuc as one of their first debuffs against you. So the second a group drops in on you, you can expect to get hit with multiple.
For example dark has already mentioned the counters, but these new patrols usually mean you will have multiple groups drop in one after the other.
However, you can use this to your advantage with planning out your engagement strategy. Instead of using all your counters be measured.
Engage the hirogen in their aft quarter, target known subnuc NPC ships first to decrease changes they will hit you, especially if you have massive alpha strike potential in your ship.
If you clear a group of subnucs but somehow one sneaky hirogen had one left, Dont clear it. Check to see the status of the wave. If it is close to being defeated wait until the next group warps in and hits you again, then clear the debuffs. Use measured responses, only use one clear at a time if you have multiple.
Additionally, being hit and suffering a subnuc debuff is not a death sentence. Depending on your ship and cleanese status you can live through the 30 second effects easily.
You need to know your ships capabilities and how long she can survive without the quick rotation of your BOFF abilities. Knowing your ships limit is key to knowing when to engage, when to feint, and when to run.
There are multiple strategies and tactics. Knowing how to utilize them against the hirogen is key.
As to, ahem, "grandstanding"... Unless you use the ALT-F4 keybind as your Alpha Strike, don't talk to me. Amateurs. :P
unfortunately, it is entirely appropriate for hirogen to be using SNB, because they were the (only) ones to use it in the show
it still shouldn't be on their rank 1 vessels, but of any enemy group using it, they are the only one that actually has any RIGHT to it
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
It's been addressed multiple times in this very thread.
That would be great if not for the fact that Subnuke is actually a Hirogen ability.
Click Me.
If anything, it would be far more rare for non-Hirogen ships.
Yes, its always frustrating to run Ninth Rule and get Hirogen. I know none of my buffs will be useful so the run is going to give a lot less XP than most other enemies.
It has been by a couple people, yet many more keep on posting that exact remark, glossing over the posts that point out that Sci team isn't a real fix.
what Evilmark said is really all I would even want, if Sci team made you immune to sub nukes for like 15 seconds or so then it would remove almost all issues with the ability.
Sci team is a real fix because it clears the ability when it is used by a specific enemy.
The fact that more enemies warp in after you kill that one, is something that always happens in the piece of content discussed here.
Which is of course one of the main reasons why people play it, so a request to change that would be nothing more than wanting many enemies and the skill points their deaths result in, without actually having to fight them and their full capabilities.
If players don't like the idea of encountering many waves of enemies because they might actually fight back, then perhaps they shouldn't look for content where this happens.
So if Sci team isn't good enough, move your ship. It really is that simple. Sometimes the game requires more than pressing spacebar.
Unless your DPS is extremely high, you cannot stay behind the Hirogen before they turn to subnuke you. They have multiple light maneuverable ships to SNB you with and can turn even in a grav well. It is easier with the Breen, because I think only the Chel Grets use SNB which turn a lot slower.
In fairness there are things that lower turn rate, but they typically have cooldowns too long to make them work for every spawn. The one thing that might be most viable is the trait press the advantage, provided you sit behind the spawn in point and can run FAW.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
> (Quote)
>
> Sci team is a real fix because it clears the ability when it is used by a specific enemy.
>
> The fact that more enemies warp in after you kill that one, is something that always happens in the piece of content discussed here.
>
> Which is of course one of the main reasons why people play it, so a request to change that would be nothing more than wanting many enemies and the skill points their deaths result in, without actually having to fight them and their full capabilities.
>
>
> If players don't like the idea of encountering many waves of enemies because they might actually fight back, then perhaps they shouldn't look for content where this happens.
Umm the issue isn't that more enemies warp in after the first few(the timing between waves is enough that sci team isn't an issue)
The issue is fighting 8 or more ships that can all sub nuke you at once. Unless you're in an escort or running those competitive engines, you're not going to be able to get behind ALL of the ships easily, and even if you can, most of the hirogen ships are extremely maneuverable. Theyll almost certainly hit you with a sub nuke before you can kill them all, especially on higher difficulties.
Again and again I have to point out to you 8 SUB NUKES. Not 1, not 2 but often times 8 OR MORE. You keep ignoring that. Sci team is meaningless when it only cleanses once, and if you get sub nukes while it's on cooldown then you're just screwed. And most of the hirogen will not hit you with all their sub nukes at once. Their ai seems to greatly prefer only using it when there isn't already sub nukes on your ship. I usually only get hit by 1 or 2 at a time and the other ships wait until I've cleansed those or activate more buffs to hit me again.
And again, this isn't a complaint about the difficulty, this is a complaint about annoyance. Sub nukes don't really make you more likely to die, they just kind or ruin your day. Should every enemy in the game have control powers that exist for no purpose other than to annoy players?
I must say that I have never encountered multiple enemies using subnuc beam at the same time, or in quick succession.
Even if there are instances where this happens, it should still be easy to counter it.
Now, if this thread were about the thing that Heralds use and which (as far as I know) cannot be countered, I would agree that it's too annoying. But regular subnuc beam? Never had a problem with that.
Yes, it can be slightly annoying but it's also one of the few things that, if you find it annoying, require you to actually adapt to what an enemy is doing.
Isn't that also determined by control skills? I haven't had a dedicated toon for that so I wouldn't know.
Besides sci team btw, there are other things that remove debuffs. The Discovery reputation trait Landry's Loyalty is one of these and I think there are doffs that do the same thing.