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Enemy NPCs with Subnucleonic Beam >.>
kaeaja
Member Posts: 517 Arc User
Really Devs? This makes combat drag on for far to long.
Anyone know how to counter this? Cause Im sick of enemy NPCs spamming this on me. Every time I see "Hunter Escorts" Im like "Nope *leaves mission map*."
Anyone know how to counter this? Cause Im sick of enemy NPCs spamming this on me. Every time I see "Hunter Escorts" Im like "Nope *leaves mission map*."
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"Subnucleonic Beam can be countered by Science Team."
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What TFOs or patrols are giving you trouble? I've slaughtered hundreds of Hirogen in patrols without feeling they were any tougher than other foes.
Thank you.
And it isn't that they are giving me trouble, I just hate how the Subnucleonic Beam just arbitrarily makes a fight take longer by debuffing a target's damage output, and worse yet, this can apparently be stacked, they can't kill me, it's just annoying, needlessly so
What annoys me is the Apex battleship hitting me with Jam Targeting Sensors, forcing my ship to target something else. Thankfully it's also cleared by ST.
What weapons are you using that aren't affected by a 75%+ damage nerf to your weapons :P?
Or maybe it's the gravity well, BFAW and torp spread. One of those two.
Not all ships can do that though.
I see :O
where do you get the Distress Call thing?
Science team however does not prevent you from being hit by further Subnucleonic beams, the problem comes in that every hirogen ship has SNB and fires it at you if you aren't already affected by it. This means, yeah you can clear the debuff once. But in some patrols you can fight as many as 12 hirogen ships at once, which means up to 12 SNBs being fired at you, which means no FAW and Torp spread or damage boosting powers, while youre energy damage is reduced by the SNB. This isn't so bad on normal difficulty, but on advanced its beyond annoying, and god help you if you're on elite, because those hirogen will take forever to die.
Put on a minor buff, let them subnuc you. Science team clear it then buff up and go to town on them.
of course, that was generally only a max of 3 since team compositions never included more than 3 science captains, not the possible 7 or more you can get from hirogen because ALL of their ships except the battleship have subnuke...that ability really shouldn't be on any ship that can spawn in multiples - or just make science team provide lingering cleansing of further subnuke applications
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Subnukes and Viral matrix... still to this days makes my hair stand on end..
But personally I have no problems fighting the Hirogen, sure they can remove my buffs etc. still dosn't stop me from killing them very quickly.
I think ship build is the culprit here.
Wire over a copy of your build, skills and such and i'll be glad to take a look at it and perhaps offer some tips on things.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
> That's why you don't pop all of your offensive powers at once when fighting the hirogen. Bait out their subnuc, then purge the debuff with sci team, charge up, fire everything at them and watch them burn. Then for viral matrix it's not really that big of a threat to you. worst case scenario it shuts something off for a couple seconds. unless you're mostly dead that shouldn't be an issue. if it is purge it with engineering team. Just have to be smart about when you hit buffs and such. I've never had an issue with them.
>
> Wire over a copy of your build, skills and such and i'll be glad to take a look at it and perhaps offer some tips on things.
But then, you're ignoring the part where you can face 7 or more hirogen ships with sub nukes, which means you can't bait it out because they don't use all of them at once. At most you'll get hit with 1 or 2 at once, and the others will wait until you activate more bugs then hit you again. Sub nuc in small groups isn't that bad. The problem is that sub nuc has been given to far too large of a group of ships when it should only be a higher ranked ship power.
> Oh noes, sub nuke has taken away my buffs...whatever shall I do? I know, kill them with my still stupidly OP weapons that will kill them in seconds.
Haha thanks for the sarcasm completely ignoring the point.
On anything higher than normal(some of us like a bit of a challenge) the subnukes make it extremely difficult for non sci focused builds to kill the hirogen.
As you're also ignoring, sub nukes lower outgoing energy weapon damage significantly, so your op weapons suddenly hit like very basic weapons.
It does nothing to your defenses, in general hirogen aren't that deadly, but if you're say running patrols to level ships and want to do it on advanced for more XP Hirogen kill a lot of potential in the patrols that have a semi endless waves phase
^^ Exactly this! Like in The Ninth Rule Patrol. You can maybe clear 1, but they just keep laying that SNB on you -- which you can't clear. Same with Viral Impulse Burst, in the Search and Rescue Patrol.
Already seeing the usual grandstanding, like "Never bothers me, I'm soooo good, I can kill everything immediately!" Yada, yada, yada. Thing is just: giving NPC's these powers is simply bad game-design. SNB (not counting PvP) is meant for Player vs. Environment, not the Environment against YOU! And why? Because, as a player you can only ever cleanse 1, not 20 in a row. Getting occasionally hit by SNB is something of which can be said one should come prepared for, fair enough. But you cannot prepare for 20x SNB in a row. Ergo, bad game design.
For every possible attack, there should be a counter. That's 'Game-design 101'. Especially in The Ninth Rule Patrol SNB is out of control a bit. They should limit the amount of SNB attacks, coming from NPC's, to max what you can cleanse with Science Team on global.
And, if it makes y'all feel better, I can kill everything too. Not the point, though.
It only sounds like 'grandstanding' because that's how you're choosing to read it.
I didn't comment, but I was confused when I read this thread as well.. I honestly don't think that the damage reduction from NPC's even works on players. It's not grand standing to state our direct experience with the issue being discussed.
Me personally, I just let them subnuke me and keep firing.. I have honestly never noticed any adverse effect from it at all. Call that what you want, but that's been my experience so far.
If it's a problem then the best way is to just wait 5 or 6 seconds for them all to hit you with the subnuke before you fire your Science Team. That way you clear them all at once.. they still have a cooldown and you should kill them before they can fire it again.
Not once did I mention that I do it with a T1 ship and white mark II gear at level 65. That would be grandstanding.
(My second post was 100% joking, though on normal difficulty I am death incarnate.)
Exactly. I wasn't trying to say "me so awesome!" more like "huh? I hadn't noticed, but maybe I'm playing the wrong content?"
That was my point exactly.
To expound a bit on the lattert, SNB is different from other attacks NPC's use. Like for a map with say, 40 NPC's on it (think latest TFO), imagine they could, individually, all do the same dmg you do! Outnumbered like that, you'd die almost immediately. So, their individual dmg output is significantly toned down, so you can actually single-handedly manage a large group. So far, so good. But SNB isn't toned down for them! The strength of their SNB isn't 20 times weaker than yours, it's on par with yours (or pretty close to it). That is why you cannot have 20 NPC subnuc you constantly.
Oh, it works.
Well, that's how you're choosing to read it.
It's never a real issue for me, but I do find all those subnucs annoying. Especially in The Ninth Rule.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm not ignoring anything, I'm simply saying it's not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. I can tell you right now, they're not going to remove sub-nuc from the hirogen or dial it back to the degree you're suggesting. I also know they don't just spam you with sub-nucs back to back with no break in between as that's not how that power works or how the AI works. With the Hirogen, they can be beaten just like anything else, you just have to be smart at how you do it. Hirogen much like the Voth are foes people can't simply spacebar to death. With the Hirogen and Voth you have to be aware of when they're using their sub-nucs or reflective shields. The sub-nuc debuff can be cleansed by science team, photonic officer can speed up the cooldown if you've been debuffed, so can temporal negotiator, the Temporal Phase Overcharged Core, as well as a host of traits and abilities. Folks are not as helpless as you seem to think against the hirogen and their sub nucs. Yeah it can be annoying but that's really all it is, annoying. With the hirogen you also can't stick all your eggs in one basket either. Play smarter not harder. There's enough cooldown reduction and so on, even at the free end, that they shouldn't be that large of an issue, especially folks are only playing normal. Space your powers out better and don't put all your eggs in one basket.
First, they don't spam sub-nucs in the numbers you're saying they do, even on elite. Secondly, folks saying they don't see it as that big of an issue is not "grandstanding" or anything of the such, so I advise you to drop that accusation and drop it now.
With that said like I pointed out above, play smarter not harder. You can't put all your eggs in one basket when dealing with hirogen. If folks choose to activate all their buffs at once and get sub-nuced, that's not bad game design, that's them not being aware of their foe.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Reading your strangely harsh comment here, I wonder, have you have ever considered recusing yourself from discussions like this? You take both a 'threatening stance' ("I advise you to drop that accusation and drop it now.") and, at the same time, wack people over the head with, ironically, the same kind of posturing I am so weary of in these forums, essentially just telling ppl to L2P ("Learn to play!"). You are a moderator. You cannot be both in the fray, and above it.
As for L2P, you do realize Hirogen, in The Nith Rule, are a random thing, right? Sometimes you get them, sometimes you get Terrans and others. That makes 'being aware of my foe' rathet tricky, without my crystal ball.
And if it is, don't play content where you will, or might encounter an enemy using subnuc beam.
You'll have to adapt to the game, instead of expecting the game to adapt to your presence. Such expectations would better suit 'grandstanding' players who think they're amazing.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
You know you and I are cool and all that.. but I'll admit.. this time, I took your post kinda the same way Darkblade did. Maybe we both misread things, that's entirely possible.. because I think we all know you're a very nice person.. but it really came across like you were just attacking anyone that didn't agree with you. I honestly think that is what started the whole 'dust up.'
Again, I don't think you're that type of poster.. I have had many great interactions with you over the years and hope to have many more. This one time though, while you might not have meant it.. I think you came off more harshly then you intended. Apologies if I fanned that flame as well, it was a knee jerk reaction.
If sub-nuke is a problem for some people then fair enough. Like darkblade said though, they can't spam it that frequently even on elite. NPC's still have cooldowns and they're really not that smart with their powers. When you approach a group of Hirogen, they all seem to fire off the subnuke as quick as they can. Honestly, all you have to do is apply your normal buff rotation (Emergency Power, Kemocite, Attack Pattern, FAW/Scatter Volley, etc) and unload for about 4-5 seconds. In that time, they will all fire their subnuke and go on cooldown.. you wait a few seconds and then pop your science team to cleanse the effect. You then just need to try and kill them off before they can fire again, and even if they can.. provided you have some sort of effective cooldown you should still be fine.
Honestly, the only trick is to wait for all of them to fire their nuke before you cleanse.
You are, as always, a gentle man.
It's funny how ppl interpret things differently, yes. You saw me 'attacking anyone that didn't agree with you,' whereas I ere saw coldnapalm's sarcastic remark as the browbeating of yet another poster who had the audacity to bring something up they said experienced trouble with, as I see happen so often on this forum (just in general), with me pushing back to that. I apologize if I came across too strong there.
As I said, I don't have a particular problem with the Hirogen myself, and usually just simply use Evasive Maneouvres (I have Helmswoman slotted for fast reload) should I really need it, and then come back. I'm lazy that way.
The reason I chimed in, because I got to musing how many NPC's (in general) should be allowed to use player-strength abilities on you, at any given time. And even though you won't literally get subnuked 20 times at the same time, it can certainly add up quite a bit, like 7 or so, was the highest I ever saw (but I recently got into possession of a lot more ships to level up *g*, so that number could rise). The max amount of subnucs is highly situational, of course, and probably gets worse when players are less able to kill stuff really fast; but I digress.
I didn't fully realize you could cleanse multiple subnucs with one Science Team (it makes sense, of couse, as ST, by its very nature, just clears all Science debuffs). So, learn every day.