The first choice is a blatantly false dilemma. The game suggests that the player and only the player has to either help Obisek or chase Hakeev, which completely ignores the fact that there are 3 other people at the scene, more than enough to do both. Certainly the medical-trained science boff I had with me would've been more capable of treating Obisek than my tactical captain. Nevermind Hakeev is stuck in a dead end just around the corner, because we shut his gateway down during the fight. So he never actually gets away at all (the borg queen abducting him, which happens in both endings, is not part of the scenario).
The second choice is more plausible. The Noye fight is pretty much the same as the real history. Whether the outcome of "beat him senseless and then arrest him" is changed to "kill him" or "he surrenders" doesn't seem like a big deal. The major difference comes from the Female Changeling living or dying. Which, given that she's another villain that we'd have to eventually kill anyway, I'd say kill her now is the best option.
As for Control, that's more a Mass Effectish paragon vs renegade choice. The obvious, easy, only-way-to-be-sure way (delete) vs the hard, uncertain, but-its-the-right-thing way (inoculate). Since the outcomes are exactly the same except the "hard" way leaves us with the Sphere data and future!Burnham alive it's easy to see which is the better one.
Yarmok always prophesizes doom regardless of the outcome, while Lincoln approves, regardless of what we choose. Yarmok starts with wild speculation after the first choice (there's no way of knowing how the reman situation would've changed without Obisek, and Hakeev had pretty much outlived his usefulness to the iconians at that point already), proceeds with just making up stuff entirely opposite to reality after the second (the Female Changeling was never much help against the hur'q, on the contrary she was trying to cover up the threat to the last possible moment and the TLF was finished at that point "martyr" or no) and, as if running out of ideas, ends up impotently whining about irrelevant things after the third (there was no way for the player to destroy Control in that fight, the choice was only about keeping the Sphere data for ourselves or destroying it).
Overall, the theme of the moral choices was good, even with the first dilemma being very forced with the way the NPCs are inexplicably rendered unable to contribute. I was mildly disappointed the second part did not continue the moral dilemmas, instead turning into a straightforward kill-the-badniks. But all the bossfights were cool if not challenging, though I do think that making borg!T'ket weaker than Control!Seven was kinda unrealistic. Gotta give the head role to the famous voice I suppose.
On the other hand, Yarmok's inevitable turn from his obviously pre-selected advocacy of evil to good after we save his sorry butt from his own biased creations was hopelessly predictable from beginning to end.
I'm still not sure how Burnham knew about Iconians
We told her when they appeared in the first part.
I meant more her remark that we survived a war with them...considering we ripped and tore through the heralds first time, she had no real reason to think they were a galaxy destroying threat logically
Since she clearly knew nothing of them in the first part, we're left with the assumption that she had been informed of them off-screen between the missions. That or she's just THAT impressed with their architecture.
Again the "choices" are strictly the designers ideas of Fed(which Burnham supposedly exemplifies) and Klingon version of "Good". Burnham was annoying with her holier than thou attitude. She didn't know the history(except for the Red Angel thing where she was the expert) but thought she knew the better course than those who lived it? However i guess it does fit with her character.
Still as i said I'll replay, if only to get the other accolades, although agreeing with her every time for the Fed accolade will be annoying. It was a fun set of missions despite Burnham's presence...(im sorry she is just above Nelix on my most dislike characters in ST list)...
The "Fed" accolade does not agree with Burnham every time. She recommends deleting the Sphere data, which is the "klingon" solution. Precisely because that's where she knew the danger personally.
Thoughts on part one:
Playing as a LibBorg Romulan aligned with the KDF does not seem to give any interesting dialog. Burnham doesn't notice I have pointy ears, and Seven doesn't seem to care about how I have Borg bits.
On the other hand, playing it as a custom alien from the romulan origin I did not get falsely identified as a romulan in it, unlike some other missions.
And Seven shouldn't suddenly notice your borg bits here anyway. Unless you're playing jem'hadar, she's met the player character before. Not that I believe it appropriate for officers to compare each others' alien bits while on duty anyway. It would be strange to get some kind of "hey look, it's a <race>" line from every character. Burnham is different, she mistakes the romulans for vulcans and wonders about their uniforms.
Speaking of jem'hadar, that's where the dialogue really should be different. The JH PC was not present at the events depicted the trials since he starts the game at the Gamma arc, and would at best have played simulations of them. Anyone played them with a jemmy?
that actually makes sense. Enterprise retconned seeing the Romulans and burnham retconned it back to TOS. in Balance of terror spock clearly states no romulan human or alliw had ever seen the face of the enemy.
I've only played Part 1 yet. And I was a bit disappointed, because of what I call the 'Mass Effect' Effect: realizing every choice you make is the right one. That sure took the fun out of it, for me.
I've only played Part 1 yet. And I was a bit disappointed, because of what I call the 'Mass Effect' Effect: realizing every choice you make is the right one. That sure took the fun out of it, for me.
Also known as the illusion of choice. IE the game asks you to make a choice, but really the choice doesn't matter.
Well it been two week's and I adore sto but question still no ship's or because of the emergency did no maintence happen or you not putt them in the legacy ship's? for xbox that is
Well it been two week's and I adore sto but question still no ship's or because of the emergency did no maintence happen or you not putt them in the legacy ship's? for xbox that is
This thread has to do with Measure of Morality Parts 1 and 2 and not the Legacy Bundle. That will be available on April 30th if I remember correctly. Their Twitter page shows when it will come out for console. Thanks.
Overall I found both episodes enjoyable. Made a change that I actually needed to use a couple of regenerators that clog up my bank. The only complaint I have and it applies to nearly everything in this game is the light show spam. While I know some like shiny things I'd rather see what is going on in a game than a white screen when all my Captain's abilities are activated. It needs to be dialled back a lot.
I was thoroughly enjoying the episodes up until The Curtain Falls. After Seven said, "If it makes you feel better, if I 'go native' here, you have permission to shoot me." is pretty much when everything came to a screeching halt for me.
Being Native (and the citizen of a federally recognized nation), I didn't find it funny. It ticked me off. Putting "native" and "shoot" in the same sentence, regardless of context, really isn't a good idea for obvious reasons.
Instead, "if I start droning 'resistance is futile' here, you have permission to shoot me." would have been a much better choice of words, and been in line with her snarky comments throughout the two episodes.
Tell that to Col. Walter E. Kurtz, Captain Nathan Algren, or Lieutenant John J Dunbar.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Being Native (and the citizen of a federally recognized nation), I didn't find it funny. It ticked me off. Putting "native" and "shoot" in the same sentence, regardless of context, really isn't a good idea for obvious reasons.
LOL. There's such a thing as being waaay to politically correct (to the point where it become incorrent, and simply downright silly). It's also simply incredibly egocentrical. There are more 'natives' than Native Americans, you know!? My CPU has a 'native' operating modus, all original inhabitants of every nation in the world can be called 'natives' for that matter, and all C++ basic programming calls in GTA V are called 'natives' too. And Dutch is my 'native' tongue.
I could probably extend the above list almost endlessly; but I'm sure you get the point. Faux indignation denied!
Being Native (and the citizen of a federally recognized nation), I didn't find it funny. It ticked me off. Putting "native" and "shoot" in the same sentence, regardless of context, really isn't a good idea for obvious reasons.
LOL. There's such a thing as being waaay to politically correct (to the point where it become incorrent, and simply downright silly). It's also simply incredibly egocentrical. There are more 'natives' than Native Americans, you know!? My CPU has a 'native' operating modus, all original inhabitants of every nation in the world can be called 'natives' for that matter, and all C++ basic programming calls in GTA V are called 'natives' too. And Dutch is my 'native' tongue.
I could probably extend the above list almost endlessly; but I'm sure you get the point. Faux indignation denied!
'(idiomatic) Of a contractor or consultant, to begin working directly as an employee for a company and cease to work through a contracting firm or agency.'
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Being Native (and the citizen of a federally recognized nation), I didn't find it funny. It ticked me off. Putting "native" and "shoot" in the same sentence, regardless of context, really isn't a good idea for obvious reasons.
LOL. There's such a thing as being waaay to politically correct (to the point where it become incorrent, and simply downright silly). It's also simply incredibly egocentrical. There are more 'natives' than Native Americans, you know!? My CPU has a 'native' operating modus, all original inhabitants of every nation in the world can be called 'natives' for that matter, and all C++ basic programming calls in GTA V are called 'natives' too. And Dutch is my 'native' tongue.
I could probably extend the above list almost endlessly; but I'm sure you get the point. Faux indignation denied!
Thank you for so eloquently proving my point.
Your point was not proven in the least. Seven was not referring to Native Americans but different usage of the word 'native'. In her case Seven is a former Borg. We need less triggering and more discussion about these topics. I agree with meimeitoo on this as well as others who hold similar beliefs but I also respect your position on the matter as well even though I do not agree with it. I also am saddened by how Native Americans, First Nations, Aborigines, and others have been treated in history and wished that those events, atrocities, etc had never happened. May we continue to learn from the past to guide us in the present. Always take what is said in context and not what you feel is being said. As for these episodes I enjoyed them. If they had changed the dialog for it to what you suggested, the comedy of that moment would be lost and zing gone. As for meimeitoo she is known to be sarcastic. That is her nature.
The term "going native" is commonly used in the intelligence community to refer to someone who has been undercover too long and they are not just playing a part any longer, that they became what they were pretending to be.
It is obvious from the context that it was that definition of the term that Seven was using, that she feared she may loose herself in the collective and any previous orders the cube was acting on when it was disabled, and therefore a probable danger to her friends. English doesn't have any other succinct phrase, slang or otherwise, that directly fit that situation.
@shredder75 I'm part native american too and I'm not butthurt about it. so get over it, Karen. @sthe91 I SOOO want to change your sig to Where there is a Will, there is a Wheaton
@shredder75 I'm part native american too and I'm not butthurt about it. so get over it, Karen. @sthe91 I SOOO want to change your sig to Where there is a Will, there is a Wheaton
Why? I can't stand Wesley Crusher! His attitude and his insubordination. Plus, he was Wil Wheaton not Will Wheaton.
> @phoenixc#0738 said: > The term "going native" is commonly used in the intelligence community to refer to someone who has been undercover too long and they are not just playing a part any longer, that they became what they were pretending to be. > It is also used in anthropology. But we should not forget anthropology and espionage are colonialist and neo-colonialist projects.
Furthermore, “native” in this context is not a neutral term but an otherizing word.
To tell someone it is just an expression, denies the institutional violence of the expression’s history...
Also if I am participating in a “zombie” thread I am sorry (and recognize the insensitivity of using zombie as a pejorative).
> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> The term "going native" is commonly used in the intelligence community to refer to someone who has been undercover too long and they are not just playing a part any longer, that they became what they were pretending to be.
>
It is also used in anthropology. But we should not forget anthropology and espionage are colonialist and neo-colonialist projects.
Furthermore, “native” in this context is not a neutral term but an otherizing word.
To tell someone it is just an expression, denies the institutional violence of the expression’s history...
Also if I am participating in a “zombie” thread I am sorry (and recognize the insensitivity of using zombie as a pejorative).
To force it to have the wrong meaning is to trivialize that meaning though.
"Going native" has nothing to do with oppression. Trying to force it into a gripe about oppression trivializes oppression. It's not "just an expression" and no one but you said it was. They were telling you it had a meaning that you were ignoring.
> @phoenixc#0738 said:
> The term "going native" is commonly used in the intelligence community to refer to someone who has been undercover too long and they are not just playing a part any longer, that they became what they were pretending to be.
>
It is also used in anthropology. But we should not forget anthropology and espionage are colonialist and neo-colonialist projects.
Furthermore, “native” in this context is not a neutral term but an otherizing word.
To tell someone it is just an expression, denies the institutional violence of the expression’s history...
Also if I am participating in a “zombie” thread I am sorry (and recognize the insensitivity of using zombie as a pejorative).
Tomorrow it would have been a zombie thread, today is just under the wire for a normal revival.
The context of the term in the episode was nothing more (and nothing less) than a warning that she may get lost in the collective and become a danger to friends, and if that happened to not hesitate to shoot her if necessary. It had nothing to do with colonialism, just getting the point across quickly using verbal shorthand they both were familiar with (delivered in the "new Seven" tone of sarcastic irony of course).
I have to disagree guys, but I appreciate your positionality.
As feminists say the personal is political—if we can not relate to minority culture we are doing something wrong.
If the sentence read, “ if I go black,” or if “I go TRIBBLE” we would certainly have a problem. If it says, “if I go Chinese,” or I go “Uraguaian,” few would say anything.
But the structure is the same.
Should we condone “racial” or “nationalistic” violence—even in video game dialogue...
Regardless of the words we choose, the following gameplay is likely interplanetary genocide; There are times when that political story hits too close to home;
Should we should punish the people who recognize that?
Good sci-fi should recognize these problems—and hopefully make a bridge to overcome them—that is my opinion anyway.
Mark and Phoenix, I love your work—you know. I am thinking more seriously about view screens vs. aluminum windows—that is cool! Thanks for adding here! And if I do not respond do not think it is indifference. I am reading but have little to add.
Vetteguy just has some violent responses here. I feel sorry for him.
I have to disagree guys, but I appreciate your positionality.
As feminists say the personal is political—if we can not relate to minority culture we are doing something wrong.
If the sentence read, “ if I go black,” or if “I go TRIBBLE” we would certainly have a problem. If it says, “if I go Chinese,” or I go “Uraguaian,” few would say anything.
But the structure is the same.
Should we condone “racial” or “nationalistic” violence—even in video game dialogue...
Regardless of the words we choose, the following gameplay is likely interplanetary genocide; There are times when that political story hits too close to home;
Should we should punish the people who recognize that?
Good sci-fi should recognize these problems—and hopefully make a bridge to overcome them—that is my opinion anyway.
Mark and Phoenix, I love your work—you know. I am thinking more seriously about view screens vs. aluminum windows—that is cool! Thanks for adding here! And if I do not respond do not think it is indifference. I am reading but have little to add.
Vetteguy just has some violent responses here. I feel sorry for him.
The problem is that no racial or nationalistic violence is being condoned in this video game dialogue. Also, if the character said I go black, depending on the usage that might not have anything racial to do with it. As for I go Tribble and become a furry, cooey, pet that reproduces rapidly, not my cup of coffee unless you meant the Nationalist Socialist Party then you might have a point. I will agree to disagree with you on this. There was nothing violent in Vetteguy's response though, he was being frank.
@shredder75 I'm part native american too and I'm not butthurt about it. so get over it, Karen. @sthe91 I SOOO want to change your sig to Where there is a Will, there is a Wheaton
Why? I can't stand Wesley Crusher! His attitude and his insubordination. Plus, he was Wil Wheaton not Will Wheaton.
it's just what i see. To each his own but I still chuckle when I see the sig
I have to disagree guys, but I appreciate your positionality.
As feminists say the personal is political—if we can not relate to minority culture we are doing something wrong.
If the sentence read, “ if I go black,” or if “I go TRIBBLE” we would certainly have a problem. If it says, “if I go Chinese,” or I go “Uraguaian,” few would say anything.
But the structure is the same.
Should we condone “racial” or “nationalistic” violence—even in video game dialogue...
Regardless of the words we choose, the following gameplay is likely interplanetary genocide; There are times when that political story hits too close to home;
Should we should punish the people who recognize that?
Good sci-fi should recognize these problems—and hopefully make a bridge to overcome them—that is my opinion anyway.
Mark and Phoenix, I love your work—you know. I am thinking more seriously about view screens vs. aluminum windows—that is cool! Thanks for adding here! And if I do not respond do not think it is indifference. I am reading but have little to add.
Vetteguy just has some violent responses here. I feel sorry for him.
The problem is that no racial or nationalistic violence is being condoned in this video game dialogue. Also, if the character said I go black, depending on the usage that might not have anything racial to do with it. As for I go Tribble and become a furry, cooey, pet that reproduces rapidly, not my cup of coffee unless you meant the Nationalist Socialist Party then you might have a point. I will agree to disagree with you on this. There was nothing violent in Vetteguy's response though, he was being frank.
Thank you. I am just completely SICK of everyone imagining slights and going PC. IMHO that's the problems we see in the US today, everyone is balkanizing themselves with the whole MeToo TRIBBLE. to even HINT that any of the dialog slights native americans is so totally stupid it reminds me of the scene from Billy Madison. As long as everyone runs around yelling I am (fill in the group of your choice) and i deserve special treatment) we will never realise the goal of what Star Trek is about; We are all HUMAN.
Finished the missions just recently. As with the rest of the Discovery focus missions, it was about as fun as pulling teeth.
While the theme of the mission was hella cool, re-enacting The Savage Curtain with Abe Lincoln was fun and flying with Archer, Picard (TNG series and TNG film), Sisko, Kirk (TOS), and Janeway was awesome and the best kind of fanservice.
But... the inclusion of Burnham and Picard's Seven of Nine was insufferable, more so that a traitorous war criminal and an alcoholic psychopath were to meant to help my Captain represent "Good". Seeing the Discovery garbage scow front and center of the hero ship armada was also eyeroll inducing as it should've been either the player ship or the Enterprise F.
Though I had plenty of roleplay funsies from my Captain and a few bridge officers meeting the president, so it wasn't a total wash.
Finished the missions just recently. As with the rest of the Discovery focus missions, it was about as fun as pulling teeth.
While the theme of the mission was hella cool, re-enacting The Savage Curtain with Abe Lincoln was fun and flying with Archer, Picard (TNG series and TNG film), Sisko, Kirk (TOS), and Janeway was awesome and the best kind of fanservice.
But... the inclusion of Burnham and Picard's Seven of Nine was insufferable, more so that a traitorous war criminal and an alcoholic psychopath were to meant to help my Captain represent "Good". Seeing the Discovery garbage scow front and center of the hero ship armada was also eyeroll inducing as it should've been either the player ship or the Enterprise F.
Though I had plenty of roleplay funsies from my Captain and a few bridge officers meeting the president, so it wasn't a total wash.
I do agree that including Burnham and Seven was textbook shark jumping. (I like Seven, but what a coincidence she's there, lost deep south in the former Neutral Zone while as far as we know she was helping the Cooperative in the Delta Quadrant). I've been told however that it was under CBS' request (and the other studios involved) as the DSC sequels, spin offs and new season, as well as the next season of Picard, were all about to hit the screen so they could have used all form of advertisement material they could get. Everything got pushed back by a few months because of the CoViD thing. I also expect the "Year of the Klingon" project to be shelved/pushed back/phased out so that more DSC related material can get the front stage.
As for Burnham, the actress was available for voice acting. The actress did a good job. Tilly would have made more sense, especially for DSC characters. Quite a few other characters would have. Still, they picked Burnham, and I'm pretty sure the Red Angel armour was added as a reward after it was decided that Burnham was in.
Yeah, when I saw the reveal trailer, it just screamed studio involvement that Picard's Seven and Michael were front and center as these oh so great legacy characters, and makes no literal sense how and why Seven's personality did a complete 180 since the Delta Alliance arc. I don't hate the actresses, just the characters. I'd prefer Tilly to Burnham because Tilly's just annoying, while Michael is toxic and intolerable. Pike and Number One would've been the best option.
I think it would've been better than change the two NPC "good" representatives to reflect your chosen faction. Like 25th Century Fed gets your Captain from the Tutorial and maybe Shon. But again, if a perfect world where a tv studio isn't breathing down the game developer's necks to help promote their sinking ship.
Actually, possible continuity problems with the Delta stuff aside, Burnham and Seven were great for the episode. They played off each other rather well, Burnham's ivory tower outlook and Seven's snarky pragmatic view came out to the classic angel/devil's advocate/main character deciding structure that Star Trek would have had if The Cage was picked up instead of the complete changeover to Kirk and company.
Tilly may have worked in place of Burnham, though she seems a bit too naïve for that particular role. And DSC Pike along with the original number one might have worked since she was just as much a psychopath as Seven under her rigid adherence to Kantian ethics calculations, but the DSC version of her is not like that at all as far they have shown so it would have thrown the classic configuration of the main character balance off.
Also, Burnham wasn't "traitorous", she was an over hubristic TRIBBLE-up who got her captain killed and started a war, but that wasn't her intention. She was trying for the exact opposite of that until it blew up in her face because of her (then) execrable social skills.
I am pretty sure I said it earlier, but I hated Seven in the episode, and she really made it a lot less fun to play. Snark overload was the primary issue and as mentioned, she was completely unrecognizable from her Delta persona. It was like seeing the affable nerd from high school 20 years later as a drunk A-hole slob, except it happens in 2 days, because in game we can jump from Delta missions with Seven straight to this mess.
But as I said, the snark was the real issue. She was nothing but a snarkbot. There was no range to her character in this mission, even on seeing what should be sobering, herself as a Borg queen. It took me out of it completely when I played it, and since it doesn't really offer anything interesting as rewards, I don't think I've played it since.
Burnham was a little annoying, as I recall, with her overly pie in the sky idealism, but it was also clear that they were using her as one side of a morality shoulder critter. And in that regard I agree Seven and Burnham played a good contrast to each other, but Seven didn't need to be an obnoxious snarky brat.
So some honest opinions, the Good the Bad and the Ugly. Because you asked for them.
The Good;
It's a fun adventure that calls back to an obscure but pretty good TOS era story. In it we get to interact with a number of mainline characters.
Also Good it is a challenging pair of missions with some actual morality choices well done.
The Not so good;
I'm completely confused with regard to the Super Magical Rock People? Back in the original show they seemed to crerate simulacra of famous people from diferent cultures. Yet here they seem to be reality bending gods on par with the Q. And halfway through I started getting confused as to what was actually going on. Do we now have a borged up Hakeev being led by a borged up Iconian, who have assimilated the Krenim, and is lead by the new Seven of Nine clone Borg Queen. That may also be the red angel armor... I think? Is this just a little reality bending test. Or did these all slip the leash and are now running around loose in the STO universe? Because it was getting really really silly.
The Bad
It's nice seeing 2 mainline Star Trek Actresses together. But dear god the difference in abilities really came through. Voice Acting is a diferent skill than TV acting. Geri Ryan was masterful at it. Shonequa Martin Green... not so much. Seeing how smoothly Geri delivers her lines, all while clearly imparting how her character has changed and evolved since Voyager, without the need for exposition. She's great. Which makes the nonstop font of flatly delivered exposition sitting next to her to seem all the more lame. But that's my opinion. I'm sure she has lots of fans. Some people appreciate exposition delivered as a blow to the head.
Bonus points for the Rock Aliens assigning Mickey Burnham to as as a fellow representative for "Good". Ummmm? Did none of these people actually watch Discovery?
Comments
that actually makes sense. Enterprise retconned seeing the Romulans and burnham retconned it back to TOS. in Balance of terror spock clearly states no romulan human or alliw had ever seen the face of the enemy.
One or two weeks from March 3.
My character Tsin'xing
This thread has to do with Measure of Morality Parts 1 and 2 and not the Legacy Bundle. That will be available on April 30th if I remember correctly. Their Twitter page shows when it will come out for console. Thanks.
Being Native (and the citizen of a federally recognized nation), I didn't find it funny. It ticked me off. Putting "native" and "shoot" in the same sentence, regardless of context, really isn't a good idea for obvious reasons.
Instead, "if I start droning 'resistance is futile' here, you have permission to shoot me." would have been a much better choice of words, and been in line with her snarky comments throughout the two episodes.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
LOL. There's such a thing as being waaay to politically correct (to the point where it become incorrent, and simply downright silly). It's also simply incredibly egocentrical. There are more 'natives' than Native Americans, you know!? My CPU has a 'native' operating modus, all original inhabitants of every nation in the world can be called 'natives' for that matter, and all C++ basic programming calls in GTA V are called 'natives' too. And Dutch is my 'native' tongue.
I could probably extend the above list almost endlessly; but I'm sure you get the point. Faux indignation denied!
Thank you for so eloquently proving my point.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Your point was not proven in the least. Seven was not referring to Native Americans but different usage of the word 'native'. In her case Seven is a former Borg. We need less triggering and more discussion about these topics. I agree with meimeitoo on this as well as others who hold similar beliefs but I also respect your position on the matter as well even though I do not agree with it. I also am saddened by how Native Americans, First Nations, Aborigines, and others have been treated in history and wished that those events, atrocities, etc had never happened. May we continue to learn from the past to guide us in the present. Always take what is said in context and not what you feel is being said. As for these episodes I enjoyed them. If they had changed the dialog for it to what you suggested, the comedy of that moment would be lost and zing gone. As for meimeitoo she is known to be sarcastic. That is her nature.
It is obvious from the context that it was that definition of the term that Seven was using, that she feared she may loose herself in the collective and any previous orders the cube was acting on when it was disabled, and therefore a probable danger to her friends. English doesn't have any other succinct phrase, slang or otherwise, that directly fit that situation.
@sthe91 I SOOO want to change your sig to Where there is a Will, there is a Wheaton
Why? I can't stand Wesley Crusher! His attitude and his insubordination. Plus, he was Wil Wheaton not Will Wheaton.
> The term "going native" is commonly used in the intelligence community to refer to someone who has been undercover too long and they are not just playing a part any longer, that they became what they were pretending to be.
>
It is also used in anthropology. But we should not forget anthropology and espionage are colonialist and neo-colonialist projects.
Furthermore, “native” in this context is not a neutral term but an otherizing word.
To tell someone it is just an expression, denies the institutional violence of the expression’s history...
Also if I am participating in a “zombie” thread I am sorry (and recognize the insensitivity of using zombie as a pejorative).
"Going native" has nothing to do with oppression. Trying to force it into a gripe about oppression trivializes oppression. It's not "just an expression" and no one but you said it was. They were telling you it had a meaning that you were ignoring.
My character Tsin'xing
Tomorrow it would have been a zombie thread, today is just under the wire for a normal revival.
The context of the term in the episode was nothing more (and nothing less) than a warning that she may get lost in the collective and become a danger to friends, and if that happened to not hesitate to shoot her if necessary. It had nothing to do with colonialism, just getting the point across quickly using verbal shorthand they both were familiar with (delivered in the "new Seven" tone of sarcastic irony of course).
As feminists say the personal is political—if we can not relate to minority culture we are doing something wrong.
If the sentence read, “ if I go black,” or if “I go TRIBBLE” we would certainly have a problem. If it says, “if I go Chinese,” or I go “Uraguaian,” few would say anything.
But the structure is the same.
Should we condone “racial” or “nationalistic” violence—even in video game dialogue...
Regardless of the words we choose, the following gameplay is likely interplanetary genocide; There are times when that political story hits too close to home;
Should we should punish the people who recognize that?
Good sci-fi should recognize these problems—and hopefully make a bridge to overcome them—that is my opinion anyway.
Mark and Phoenix, I love your work—you know. I am thinking more seriously about view screens vs. aluminum windows—that is cool! Thanks for adding here! And if I do not respond do not think it is indifference. I am reading but have little to add.
Vetteguy just has some violent responses here. I feel sorry for him.
The problem is that no racial or nationalistic violence is being condoned in this video game dialogue. Also, if the character said I go black, depending on the usage that might not have anything racial to do with it. As for I go Tribble and become a furry, cooey, pet that reproduces rapidly, not my cup of coffee unless you meant the Nationalist Socialist Party then you might have a point. I will agree to disagree with you on this. There was nothing violent in Vetteguy's response though, he was being frank.
it's just what i see. To each his own but I still chuckle when I see the sig
Thank you. I am just completely SICK of everyone imagining slights and going PC. IMHO that's the problems we see in the US today, everyone is balkanizing themselves with the whole MeToo TRIBBLE. to even HINT that any of the dialog slights native americans is so totally stupid it reminds me of the scene from Billy Madison. As long as everyone runs around yelling I am (fill in the group of your choice) and i deserve special treatment) we will never realise the goal of what Star Trek is about; We are all HUMAN.
While the theme of the mission was hella cool, re-enacting The Savage Curtain with Abe Lincoln was fun and flying with Archer, Picard (TNG series and TNG film), Sisko, Kirk (TOS), and Janeway was awesome and the best kind of fanservice.
But... the inclusion of Burnham and Picard's Seven of Nine was insufferable, more so that a traitorous war criminal and an alcoholic psychopath were to meant to help my Captain represent "Good". Seeing the Discovery garbage scow front and center of the hero ship armada was also eyeroll inducing as it should've been either the player ship or the Enterprise F.
Though I had plenty of roleplay funsies from my Captain and a few bridge officers meeting the president, so it wasn't a total wash.
Yeah, when I saw the reveal trailer, it just screamed studio involvement that Picard's Seven and Michael were front and center as these oh so great legacy characters, and makes no literal sense how and why Seven's personality did a complete 180 since the Delta Alliance arc. I don't hate the actresses, just the characters. I'd prefer Tilly to Burnham because Tilly's just annoying, while Michael is toxic and intolerable. Pike and Number One would've been the best option.
I think it would've been better than change the two NPC "good" representatives to reflect your chosen faction. Like 25th Century Fed gets your Captain from the Tutorial and maybe Shon. But again, if a perfect world where a tv studio isn't breathing down the game developer's necks to help promote their sinking ship.
Tilly may have worked in place of Burnham, though she seems a bit too naïve for that particular role. And DSC Pike along with the original number one might have worked since she was just as much a psychopath as Seven under her rigid adherence to Kantian ethics calculations, but the DSC version of her is not like that at all as far they have shown so it would have thrown the classic configuration of the main character balance off.
Also, Burnham wasn't "traitorous", she was an over hubristic TRIBBLE-up who got her captain killed and started a war, but that wasn't her intention. She was trying for the exact opposite of that until it blew up in her face because of her (then) execrable social skills.
But as I said, the snark was the real issue. She was nothing but a snarkbot. There was no range to her character in this mission, even on seeing what should be sobering, herself as a Borg queen. It took me out of it completely when I played it, and since it doesn't really offer anything interesting as rewards, I don't think I've played it since.
Burnham was a little annoying, as I recall, with her overly pie in the sky idealism, but it was also clear that they were using her as one side of a morality shoulder critter. And in that regard I agree Seven and Burnham played a good contrast to each other, but Seven didn't need to be an obnoxious snarky brat.
The Good;
It's a fun adventure that calls back to an obscure but pretty good TOS era story. In it we get to interact with a number of mainline characters.
Also Good it is a challenging pair of missions with some actual morality choices well done.
The Not so good;
I'm completely confused with regard to the Super Magical Rock People? Back in the original show they seemed to crerate simulacra of famous people from diferent cultures. Yet here they seem to be reality bending gods on par with the Q. And halfway through I started getting confused as to what was actually going on. Do we now have a borged up Hakeev being led by a borged up Iconian, who have assimilated the Krenim, and is lead by the new Seven of Nine clone Borg Queen. That may also be the red angel armor... I think? Is this just a little reality bending test. Or did these all slip the leash and are now running around loose in the STO universe? Because it was getting really really silly.
The Bad
It's nice seeing 2 mainline Star Trek Actresses together. But dear god the difference in abilities really came through. Voice Acting is a diferent skill than TV acting. Geri Ryan was masterful at it. Shonequa Martin Green... not so much. Seeing how smoothly Geri delivers her lines, all while clearly imparting how her character has changed and evolved since Voyager, without the need for exposition. She's great. Which makes the nonstop font of flatly delivered exposition sitting next to her to seem all the more lame. But that's my opinion. I'm sure she has lots of fans. Some people appreciate exposition delivered as a blow to the head.
Bonus points for the Rock Aliens assigning Mickey Burnham to as as a fellow representative for "Good". Ummmm? Did none of these people actually watch Discovery?