the dps check pretty much prevent you from fighting forever vs the tactical cube at the end bc of the self healing ability. in logfiles we saw 29m selfheal over like 1 minute 30 seconds or so from the taccube.
in addition, you shouldnt go into an elite queue when doing like 10-20k dps, you're just not ready, simply because you're below the value a hangar bay could do
the hp values so far are decent to the amount of damage we could throw at the enemies. so for now its fine as it is. sure a few more mechanics like do x or get instant killed and stuff like that would be great, but maybe we will see something in the future.
[x] raids and/or fights with mechanic (mechanic that need to be played or you just die/fail ^^)
Yeah, the 'X marks the spot' markers on the nanite generators, kinda childish, really. People have been doing ISA for, what, ten years now?! If by this time peeps hadn't figured it out yet, then maybe STO is not for them. I don't call that 'streamlining,' but rather 'breaking immersion.' Klink voiceover is kinda nice, but comes with an extra wait penalty.
In fact, this entire event is not really what I had hoped for. I had set my heart on a Borg event, where maybe we could get a cute liberated sphere or something, at the end. As it stands, not to be a negative nancy, a few reworked missions hardly counts as a true event, IMHO.
Under no circumstances does any part of this game need a DPS check nobody needs to be defined by the least least important factor in it all of the game.
Elite level queues would have a minimum desirable level of game play for a reasonable chance of success as they are the hardest in the game. They aren't part of the random system.
Level of game play for elites not yet achieved? Been there... explode, explode again, run out of heals, unable to complete mission.
I haven't yet done ISE yet but only have 3-5 toons who would give it a try. Elite grounds I find a bit easier but they still challenge my abilities as a player.
Using a parser occasionally is probably a good idea just so you know where you're at.
Nothing to do with elitism but again, to have a reasonable chance of success at completing the mission.
I remeber when the Borg where given more abilites, like EPtE, and more inteligence... they felt like a real challenge.. and they didnt even upped the HP!... ahhh, good times, wished they keept that AI en Advanced and Elite..
yes, all the foes should have a better AI, and more skills to use. We have a ton of skills, foes use only 1 or 2; this should be changed for a better challenge.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
This concept is backwards thinking. Builds are about finding ever more lethal ways to turn your enemies into confetti. As a player one of your goals is to REMOVE challenge from the game. So you work at improving your build because you don't WANT to struggle.... unless you're a TRIBBLE. If you're a TRIBBLE you can struggle by not using boff skills or something...
To paraphrase what Sun-Tzu said: Victory in battle goes to whoever is better prepared.
People blowing up the transformators without even BOTHERING to look at the generators, because their DPS outpaces any healing the generators generate.
That's a balancing issue and not the DPS itself that's the problem. The DPS may be the catalyst but is not the issue. Stick a shield on the transformers until the generators drop and you're golden. It's worked for folks nuking the gate before the transformers so it could work here.
You should have played ISA when there were no super consoles, no reputations and the like.
ISE does (or did) not NEED fail conditions, because it pretty much failed when a generator was healed by nanite spheres. But you could still turn that around if you had a good plan. That's dramatic, that's tension, that's difficult.
The game checking if the team has at least DPS X, so that the most boring way to do the mission (that is, with high DPS) will be the only one allowed... that's not difficult, that's boring.
The DPS check is present because the boss now heals a fair amount on elite. If your group fails the DPS check, then you will most likely fail the fight against the final boss as well and not be able to kill them. Again this will sound elitist, but the elite difficulty is not meant for everyone. If someone hasn't taken the time to get a basic cohesive build put together, learned how to use that build, and is pulling a moderate amount of damage with it, they are not ready for elite and have no business in that run yet. At some point they will be ready, but that time is not now. All that person is going to do by going into elite before they're ready is annoy their team and frustrate themselves. Whether you think it's difficult or not, elite is meant to be the toughest stuff in the game, and is not meant for just everyone to complete without a little bit of effort and prep work. You may find it boring, but I guarantee you that most of the playerbase doesn't want to get stuck in a 30+ minute run of ISE or similar purely because the team's damage is so low they can't kill anything in a reasonable amount of time. No one reasonably expects things to die in just one hit on elite. On the opposite end of that coin I don't call spending 30 minutes on one group of ships because of my team's low damage output to be fun. I don't see what's so unreasonable about expecting a basic minimum level of effort and damage from people if they're queuing for the hardest setting in game. If they're going to queue for elite, they should at least meet the minimum requirements for the queue itself, or point blank, they're not ready for elite yet.
Under no circumstances does any part of this game need a DPS check nobody needs to be defined by the least least important factor in it all of the game.
If you don't have a reasonable amount of damage for certain tasks in this game, you will fail. the bosses now healing by a fair amount in ISE is just one example, or the first wave in Korfez. If you don't have the damage to clear those objectives you will fail. Otherwise see above, I don't consider 30+ minute fights due to low damage output of my team to be fun.
I have been playing since F2P launch day and have never used a parser even 1 time. There is no content in the game that I can't or won't play with any of my 21 characters, and the only factor that will prevent success is other players. This includes Korfez. Tracking inconsistent Dps Is far less important than learning how skills, traits, gear, etc works together, buffs, synergizes, etc. If you know how to competently build and fly your ship nothing else matters.
If you haven't bothered to check your damage at least once, you can't possibly know how well you're doing or not doing by extension. You won't know what changes to make to improve or if the damage you think is good is coming from your team or is legitimately yours. Knowing how to use the build is half the battle. actually parsing lets you test that knowledge on occasion and see if it's working as well as you think it is.
the dps check pretty much prevent you from fighting forever vs the tactical cube at the end [...]
"Fighting forever" is good, dammit!
And by the way, the game has ways to reduce an enemy's healing, or damage. But with the ridiculous amount of DPS that there is achievable, why would anyone bother with those? Even more so when the game itself basically sais "don't even try to do the mission with less than X DPS", with X being so high that nothing else matters?
Reduce healing does not equal eliminating it. Even if you reduce enemy healing by half, you still have to outdo the other 50%. You do not need to be an uber min/maxer to play elites in this game, you never have been. You don't need to do 2934820481298323238579080927502983+ DPS or whatever the records are now, but you do need to at least be conscious at your keyboard and have sorted some stuff out.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
-Addition of objective markers means people have no excuse to miss the probes in Khitomer
Vortex, and makes it clearer what you should be targeting in Infected space
So...let me get this straight Sophy...you think elite maps are too easy so to make it hard, you want to remove fail conditions...Umm...WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!? And this TRIBBLE backwards conclusion is drawn because DPSers are evil. Umm...yeah...holy jeebus....
He's just trolling like always.
He probably hasn't played the map, he sure as heck doesn't have the skill to complete it. He's just mad because others can do it and it's easier to blame the game for his lack of ability.
He does this all the time, everything he posts is straight up 100% troll bait.
Really wish the ground one would que more. I love the ground version on advanced.
I've been getting it on one character on ADV and it's crashing to desktop on the load screen at 40.98%. Which, I just ran across this.
Al Rivera Retweeted
Star Trek Online @trekonlinegame
Two Borg Related Things:
1) To make up for yesterday, we're extending The Borg Resurgence by an additional day on PC. Have fun unlocking your items!
2) Avoid the mission Butterfly, and possibly other Borg Ground content for now. We're looking into an issue that's causing a crash.
Which, if it pops up on random queue, how exactly are we suppose to avoid it?
Really wish the ground one would que more. I love the ground version on advanced.
I've been getting it on one character on ADV and it's crashing to desktop on the load screen at 40.98%. Which, I just ran across this.
Al Rivera Retweeted
Star Trek Online @trekonlinegame
Two Borg Related Things:
1) To make up for yesterday, we're extending The Borg Resurgence by an additional day on PC. Have fun unlocking your items!
2) Avoid the mission Butterfly, and possibly other Borg Ground content for now. We're looking into an issue that's causing a crash.
Which, if it pops up on random queue, how exactly are we suppose to avoid it?
One more experience to add in, out of the 2 ISE runs I got into last night:
Total duration: 486s
Team total DPS: 700k (230/160/150/80/80)
Personal Deaths: 2 (everyone had at least 2)
This was a team that were no slouches, and yet it took 6 minutes with multiple deaths and some near misses. We were bringing our relative A-game, and it felt balanced around that. The only thing I saw was that the generators were still taken out a little early/individually, and it felt like they could stand to have a bit more health so that if they weren't coordinated, it would allow enough time for spheres to get over.
All in all, it still feels like a pumped up ISA, but pumped up fairly near the right amount to feel in line with other elites in the game. Nothing in STO is probably ever going to be akin to raids, but this is a good step.
Fascinating. The numbers and description read similar to the ones from the ISA I ran with @seaofsorrows yesterday so I'm sure you had a good fight as well.
I was able to reduce my deaths from 3 to 1 time on my second ISA since I knew a bit better what I signed up for but it remains a challenge as it should be. Things will get better in the future when players (both DPS centric and other activities like tanking/healing) will adapt and distribute their powers better.
BTW KSE is a very tough nut to crack now. Unlike ISA team splits to some extend are required and doing it wrong leads to heavy problems when all of sudden one faces a tac cube, a regular one and two spheres all by oneself. The timeframe is brutal.
I could imagine that all those old school, almost legendary “strategies” or players’ dispositions we pulled years ago there will become all new once again.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
BTW KSE is a very tough nut to crack now. Unlike ISA team splits to some extend are required and doing it wrong leads to heavy problems when all of sudden one faces a tac cube, a regular one and two spheres all by oneself. The timeframe is brutal.
I could imagine that all those old school, almost legendary “strategies” or players’ dispositions we pulled years ago there will become all new once again.
Agreed, KSE is a tough one.. going to be fun trying to get a method for continual success.
Under no circumstances does any part of this game need a DPS check nobody needs to be defined by the least least important factor in it all of the game.
I disagree. In an mmorpg which happens to be about spaceship combat DPS is one of if not *the* decisive factor of a player’s position on the relative progression curve the game offers. Same counts for HPS and agro management.
Those magnitudes reflect everything a player can become good at as in skill, knowledge, gear & team play. Being attached to the game’s commercial structure it also says everything about the player. If you are enthusiastic you will become good, if not you won’t. Simple as that.
As a side note I’m totally confused why you feel the need to voice your opinion about DPS checks right here right now? I mean they are old news!!!
Cryptic introduced them throughout most of the elite space maps we have. Gateway, Counterpoint, Herald… I was confused when cryptic made them back in 2014, thought them mean as they hinder so many players from succeeding before they even tried.
Why in the world did you keep silent all those years about them but when all of sudden ISE is back you excess you’re right to speak up? If a game should not be about DPS in your eyes why focus on the very map which is mostly about it?
Sorry to say it but pleases play and discuss other maps. You feel completely out of place here.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
BTW KSE is a very tough nut to crack now. Unlike ISA team splits to some extend are required and doing it wrong leads to heavy problems when all of sudden one faces a tac cube, a regular one and two spheres all by oneself. The timeframe is brutal.
I could imagine that all those old school, almost legendary “strategies” or players’ dispositions we pulled years ago there will become all new once again.
Agreed, KSE is a tough one.. going to be fun trying to get a method for continual success.
Yea, in the meantime I felt it prudent to blame Klye. It was clearly on him that we didn't make it on first try.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
BTW KSE is a very tough nut to crack now. Unlike ISA team splits to some extend are required and doing it wrong leads to heavy problems when all of sudden one faces a tac cube, a regular one and two spheres all by oneself. The timeframe is brutal.
I could imagine that all those old school, almost legendary “strategies” or players’ dispositions we pulled years ago there will become all new once again.
Agreed, KSE is a tough one.. going to be fun trying to get a method for continual success.
3/2 split. 3 go one side, two the other.
On the split. 1 should remain focused and on the look out for probes. Grav Well, TBR, or other means of crowd control a must. This is to keep the probes locked in place, or just pushed further away from the vortex.
The 2/1 left over can focus more on the generators, and other enemy npcs. Tip here, come in under the generators. If they're at 10km above you, the npc ships are out of aggro range.
The hope here is that the three side gets they're generator and gate down, in the time the two side should at least get one generator down.
From here, it's still focused fire. But now you have the extra dps/crowd control to burn the the second generator and gates down pretty quickly.
The extact same strat we used back in the old days. A bit modified for current damage, since back then the preferred was a 4/1 split. The one just keeping the probes CC'd and/or dead.
So...let me get this straight Sophy...you think elite maps are too easy so to make it hard, you want to remove fail conditions...Umm...WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU SMOKING?!? And this TRIBBLE backwards conclusion is drawn because DPSers are evil. Umm...yeah...holy jeebus....
I’m totally excited that we have our annual „This game should be more like Streetfighter” thread in full swing again.
What can be more fun than if STO picks ISE of all maps to tell you to do your homework and someone replies:
“Hey I know I will be good when I do them so I see no point in doing them in the first place.”
Perhaps next time more peeps will take his hate comments when there is disappointment in a new ship release with bad stats with a grain of salt. I for my part need to put everything I learned from @felisean the past years to good use on the new Borg maps and I'm glad I did. Everybody has the same chance. If peeps dont take it its on them, not the game.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
The extact same strat we used back in the old days. A bit modified for current damage, since back then the preferred was a 4/1 split. The one just keeping the probes CC'd and/or dead.
Defense is a bit easier now that we don't have to worry about staying out of range of the gate.
Comments
in addition, you shouldnt go into an elite queue when doing like 10-20k dps, you're just not ready, simply because you're below the value a hangar bay could do
the hp values so far are decent to the amount of damage we could throw at the enemies. so for now its fine as it is. sure a few more mechanics like do x or get instant killed and stuff like that would be great, but maybe we will see something in the future.
[x] raids and/or fights with mechanic (mechanic that need to be played or you just die/fail ^^)
ingame: @Felisean
In fact, this entire event is not really what I had hoped for. I had set my heart on a Borg event, where maybe we could get a cute liberated sphere or something, at the end. As it stands, not to be a negative nancy, a few reworked missions hardly counts as a true event, IMHO.
Elite level queues would have a minimum desirable level of game play for a reasonable chance of success as they are the hardest in the game. They aren't part of the random system.
Level of game play for elites not yet achieved? Been there... explode, explode again, run out of heals, unable to complete mission.
I haven't yet done ISE yet but only have 3-5 toons who would give it a try. Elite grounds I find a bit easier but they still challenge my abilities as a player.
Using a parser occasionally is probably a good idea just so you know where you're at.
Nothing to do with elitism but again, to have a reasonable chance of success at completing the mission.
yes, all the foes should have a better AI, and more skills to use. We have a ton of skills, foes use only 1 or 2; this should be changed for a better challenge.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
To paraphrase what Sun-Tzu said: Victory in battle goes to whoever is better prepared.
My character Tsin'xing
That's a balancing issue and not the DPS itself that's the problem. The DPS may be the catalyst but is not the issue. Stick a shield on the transformers until the generators drop and you're golden. It's worked for folks nuking the gate before the transformers so it could work here.
The DPS check is present because the boss now heals a fair amount on elite. If your group fails the DPS check, then you will most likely fail the fight against the final boss as well and not be able to kill them. Again this will sound elitist, but the elite difficulty is not meant for everyone. If someone hasn't taken the time to get a basic cohesive build put together, learned how to use that build, and is pulling a moderate amount of damage with it, they are not ready for elite and have no business in that run yet. At some point they will be ready, but that time is not now. All that person is going to do by going into elite before they're ready is annoy their team and frustrate themselves. Whether you think it's difficult or not, elite is meant to be the toughest stuff in the game, and is not meant for just everyone to complete without a little bit of effort and prep work. You may find it boring, but I guarantee you that most of the playerbase doesn't want to get stuck in a 30+ minute run of ISE or similar purely because the team's damage is so low they can't kill anything in a reasonable amount of time. No one reasonably expects things to die in just one hit on elite. On the opposite end of that coin I don't call spending 30 minutes on one group of ships because of my team's low damage output to be fun. I don't see what's so unreasonable about expecting a basic minimum level of effort and damage from people if they're queuing for the hardest setting in game. If they're going to queue for elite, they should at least meet the minimum requirements for the queue itself, or point blank, they're not ready for elite yet.
If you don't have a reasonable amount of damage for certain tasks in this game, you will fail. the bosses now healing by a fair amount in ISE is just one example, or the first wave in Korfez. If you don't have the damage to clear those objectives you will fail. Otherwise see above, I don't consider 30+ minute fights due to low damage output of my team to be fun.
If you haven't bothered to check your damage at least once, you can't possibly know how well you're doing or not doing by extension. You won't know what changes to make to improve or if the damage you think is good is coming from your team or is legitimately yours. Knowing how to use the build is half the battle. actually parsing lets you test that knowledge on occasion and see if it's working as well as you think it is.
Reduce healing does not equal eliminating it. Even if you reduce enemy healing by half, you still have to outdo the other 50%. You do not need to be an uber min/maxer to play elites in this game, you never have been. You don't need to do 2934820481298323238579080927502983+ DPS or whatever the records are now, but you do need to at least be conscious at your keyboard and have sorted some stuff out.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
He's just trolling like always.
He probably hasn't played the map, he sure as heck doesn't have the skill to complete it. He's just mad because others can do it and it's easier to blame the game for his lack of ability.
He does this all the time, everything he posts is straight up 100% troll bait.
Responding to him is pointless.
I've been getting it on one character on ADV and it's crashing to desktop on the load screen at 40.98%. Which, I just ran across this.
Al Rivera Retweeted
Star Trek Online
@trekonlinegame
Two Borg Related Things:
1) To make up for yesterday, we're extending The Borg Resurgence by an additional day on PC. Have fun unlocking your items!
2) Avoid the mission Butterfly, and possibly other Borg Ground content for now. We're looking into an issue that's causing a crash.
Which, if it pops up on random queue, how exactly are we suppose to avoid it?
Well that explains that.
Fascinating. The numbers and description read similar to the ones from the ISA I ran with @seaofsorrows yesterday so I'm sure you had a good fight as well.
I was able to reduce my deaths from 3 to 1 time on my second ISA since I knew a bit better what I signed up for but it remains a challenge as it should be. Things will get better in the future when players (both DPS centric and other activities like tanking/healing) will adapt and distribute their powers better.
BTW KSE is a very tough nut to crack now. Unlike ISA team splits to some extend are required and doing it wrong leads to heavy problems when all of sudden one faces a tac cube, a regular one and two spheres all by oneself. The timeframe is brutal.
I could imagine that all those old school, almost legendary “strategies” or players’ dispositions we pulled years ago there will become all new once again.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Agreed, KSE is a tough one.. going to be fun trying to get a method for continual success.
I disagree. In an mmorpg which happens to be about spaceship combat DPS is one of if not *the* decisive factor of a player’s position on the relative progression curve the game offers. Same counts for HPS and agro management.
Those magnitudes reflect everything a player can become good at as in skill, knowledge, gear & team play. Being attached to the game’s commercial structure it also says everything about the player. If you are enthusiastic you will become good, if not you won’t. Simple as that.
As a side note I’m totally confused why you feel the need to voice your opinion about DPS checks right here right now? I mean they are old news!!!
Cryptic introduced them throughout most of the elite space maps we have. Gateway, Counterpoint, Herald… I was confused when cryptic made them back in 2014, thought them mean as they hinder so many players from succeeding before they even tried.
Why in the world did you keep silent all those years about them but when all of sudden ISE is back you excess you’re right to speak up? If a game should not be about DPS in your eyes why focus on the very map which is mostly about it?
Sorry to say it but pleases play and discuss other maps. You feel completely out of place here.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yea, in the meantime I felt it prudent to blame Klye. It was clearly on him that we didn't make it on first try.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
3/2 split. 3 go one side, two the other.
On the split. 1 should remain focused and on the look out for probes. Grav Well, TBR, or other means of crowd control a must. This is to keep the probes locked in place, or just pushed further away from the vortex.
The 2/1 left over can focus more on the generators, and other enemy npcs. Tip here, come in under the generators. If they're at 10km above you, the npc ships are out of aggro range.
The hope here is that the three side gets they're generator and gate down, in the time the two side should at least get one generator down.
From here, it's still focused fire. But now you have the extra dps/crowd control to burn the the second generator and gates down pretty quickly.
The extact same strat we used back in the old days. A bit modified for current damage, since back then the preferred was a 4/1 split. The one just keeping the probes CC'd and/or dead.
I’m totally excited that we have our annual „This game should be more like Streetfighter” thread in full swing again.
What can be more fun than if STO picks ISE of all maps to tell you to do your homework and someone replies:
“Hey I know I will be good when I do them so I see no point in doing them in the first place.”
Perhaps next time more peeps will take his hate comments when there is disappointment in a new ship release with bad stats with a grain of salt. I for my part need to put everything I learned from @felisean the past years to good use on the new Borg maps and I'm glad I did. Everybody has the same chance. If peeps dont take it its on them, not the game.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Defense is a bit easier now that we don't have to worry about staying out of range of the gate.