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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

A change I'd love to see with the borg rewamp

spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,367 Arc User
edited September 2023 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
I dunno about the rest of you but I've not really liked how the 25th century borg drones look in-game. Especially the female drones look like they were under a mandate from someone who doesn't get how borg should look like and demanded that female drones should look "sexy" so you end up with something looks neither borg nor sexy and while not as bad the male drones haven't aged that well either.

So what I'd love would if Cryptic did a new art pass on the borg drones to bring them to level of quality most new additions to STO have, which is actually quite high some animation issues aside. Granted I'm full aware that any new art associated with the Borg rewamp might already be done, so if what I wish doesn't happen then so be it, maybe next time then.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,886 Arc User
    Umm wow....I really don't know what to say. When I see the female Drones I really don't see sexy AT ALL...I think they were trying to go as opposite of 7 of 9 as they could. There is just nothing about this that says sexy to me

    d76obid-c0b9a0d8-4470-42f5-83be-d0731cfc9f8e.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2VlYTQwNTc2LTk5MTItNGI1Ny04NzdjLWQwY2Q0NjlhZjNiNlwvZDc2b2JpZC1jMGI5YTBkOC00NDcwLTQyZjUtODNiZS1kMDczMWNmYzlmOGUucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.yjzbXAIQi6a5zVYeEZXnwypi1fQpQsngHt_Hr4KGiVs


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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,660 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Umm wow....I really don't know what to say. When I see the female Drones I really don't see sexy AT ALL...I think they were trying to go as opposite of 7 of 9 as they could. There is just nothing about this that says sexy to me

    Don't judge ;)

    Glowy spines aren't my fetish either but some people are really excited by a flat stomach so bonus points for none at all?

    More seriously, art updates sound nice if Cryptic has the time for it.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,283 Arc User
    art updates are a given, since the borg have only been touched once, if at all, since the game launched​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,886 Arc User
    davefenestrator wrote: »
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Umm wow....I really don't know what to say. When I see the female Drones I really don't see sexy AT ALL...I think they were trying to go as opposite of 7 of 9 as they could. There is just nothing about this that says sexy to me

    Don't judge ;)

    Glowy spines aren't my fetish either but some people are really excited by a flat stomach so bonus points for none at all?

    More seriously, art updates sound nice if Cryptic has the time for it.

    Not saying art updates are bad....just there is nothing even relatively close to any conventional definitions of "sexiness".

    Compared to 7 of 9 for example I'd say the female Borg in STO look like techno-zombies.
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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    all the borg should be like the queen, an artificial body which is the receptacle of the head and part of the spine; a special body for each different borg (tactical etc).

    https://mightymega.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/borg_queen_3-620x536.jpg
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,660 Arc User
    sennahcherib wrote: »
    all the borg should be like the queen, an artificial body which is the receptacle of the head and part of the spine; a special body for each different borg (tactical etc).

    https://mightymega.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/borg_queen_3-620x536.jpg

    Borg assimilate and incorporate uniqueness. Putting everyone into identical robot bodies seems to undermine that.

  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    indeed, but they could evolve like all the species instead of being for eternity the dumbest race in the universe; I mean in STO. They need only the brain with all the knowledge etc, the bodies are not necessary after all, and these bodies are maybe also a disadvantage.

    I don't like very much the idea of something "canon". Everything should be evolve, be modified; if that improves the story, and the characters. I don't say that my idea is good, but everything should be considered.
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,967 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    sennahcherib wrote: »
    indeed, but they could evolve like all the species instead of being for eternity the dumbest race in the universe; I mean in STO. They need only the brain with all the knowledge etc, the bodies are not necessary after all, and these bodies are maybe also a disadvantage.

    I don't like very much the idea of something "canon". Everything should be evolve, be modified; if that improves the story, and the characters. I don't say that my idea is good, but everything should be considered.

    The Borg adapt, they are not dumb. It is us who have adapted to fight the Borg and we will have to adapt again to fight them in an update coming soon. Also, I do not want disembodied heads/minds as the Borg. No thanks, full-bodied Borg please.
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  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    sthe91 wrote: »
    sennahcherib wrote: »
    indeed, but they could evolve like all the species instead of being for eternity the dumbest race in the universe; I mean in STO. They need only the brain with all the knowledge etc, the bodies are not necessary after all, and these bodies are maybe also a disadvantage.

    I don't like very much the idea of something "canon". Everything should be evolve, be modified; if that improves the story, and the characters. I don't say that my idea is good, but everything should be considered.

    The Borg adapt, they are not dumb. It is us who have adapted to fight the Borg and we will have to adapt again to fight them in an update coming soon. Also, I do not want disembodied heads/minds as the Borg. No thanks, full-bodied Borg please.

    take a look at their way of fighting in sto, aren't they totally dumb? if the Borg adapt, then they should adapt when they are defeated, and try something else. The borg are billions of brains, that means billions of experiences, billions of possiblities all accessible and leaded by 1 willpower. But they use always the same stupid tactics. Each time, that we encounter them, they should be different in a way or an other, that would be logical when we take into consideration what they really are. The ants are a good example, they can evolve very quickly, and modify their strategies if needed.

    And, yes we have adapted; we have the tommygun!!! lol. :p

    I don't think that the "new" borg will be different, + if the devs make something different, we will see in the forum, tons of messages against these changes.

    In fact, I wish the devs could use their imagination without restrictions.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,367 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Umm wow....I really don't know what to say. When I see the female Drones I really don't see sexy AT ALL...I think they were trying to go as opposite of 7 of 9 as they could. There is just nothing about this that says sexy to me
    That's why I said it failed. Think about it this way what other logical reason would be for female drones and only female drones have armor plates only on locations that you can't show due the age rating and a waist that's not so slim it's literally just the spine, but also have said spine have glowing lights that drawn attention to an obvious weak spot.

    To me it this design says that Cryptic was trying to be as faithful to the Borg design as they could but someone either in PWE or Atari (IIRC) mandated that female drones should look more sexy (read:TRIBBLE) to attract more players (and I don't personally think that would work but it's been shown that Marketing Executives in gaming publishing companies do think it could regardless of actual evidence).

    That's why be got this thing that IMHO doesn't really fullfill either of those goals, it doesn't look sexy at all and the obvious weakness seems like something the borg would never intentionally add to the collective.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,660 Arc User
    > To me it this design says that Cryptic was trying to be as faithful to the Borg design as they could but someone either in PWE or Atari (IIRC) mandated that female drones should look more sexy

    Or the artist thought that showing a bare spine was a cool way to make the point that the body was now only partly organic.

    It could be either. Unless someone from Cryptic responds we can only guess.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    art updates are a given, since the borg have only been touched once, if at all, since the game launched​​
    There's 4 sets of Borg in the game. 2409 Borg, TNG Borg, partially assimilated people, and the Cooperative.

    If they add more it'll be for a specific reason.
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    I personally never liked the 2409 borg designs they came up with, at all, and I would be VERY happy if they scrapped them altogether and replaced them with an updated version of FC / Voyager borg.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Umm wow....I really don't know what to say. When I see the female Drones I really don't see sexy AT ALL...I think they were trying to go as opposite of 7 of 9 as they could. There is just nothing about this that says sexy to me

    Extensive cybernetics instead of just Seven's cybernetics could be sexy and we will have to see in Cyberpunk 2077, but there is nothing in that image that is sexy. Maybe some type of glowing spinal support that is on their back and cranial cybernetics could work on an attractive woman or a handsome man. I suppose if someone has a zombie fetish, then they would be into this.

    It looks like the Borg were tired of all of the Liberated Borg and decided to make it impossible to liberate any more Borg. The only way to save a Borg like that is probably a head transplant or memory transfer.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Umm wow....I really don't know what to say. When I see the female Drones I really don't see sexy AT ALL...I think they were trying to go as opposite of 7 of 9 as they could. There is just nothing about this that says sexy to me
    Extensive cybernetics instead of just Seven's cybernetics could be sexy and we will have to see in Cyberpunk 2077, but there is nothing in that image that is sexy. Maybe some type of glowing spinal support that is on their back and cranial cybernetics could work on an attractive woman or a handsome man. I suppose if someone has a zombie fetish, then they would be into this.

    It looks like the Borg were tired of all of the Liberated Borg and decided to make it impossible to liberate any more Borg. The only way to save a Borg like that is probably a head transplant or memory transfer.
    Or maybe they're not assimilated people at all? who knows really...
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc
    phoenixc#0738
         Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    Or they could be Borg that are so old their organic bodies have mostly failed.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    Trying to design things to not be sexy is futile. Anything that has some obvious sexual traits will be sexy to someone. I think the quickest way to make something the least sexy is to remove or blur identifiable gender to the point that you just can't tell. With the Borg, they were once free thinking individuals who inevitably had some measure of sex appeal to their own species at least. That drone was likely someone's significant other at some point, and likely wanted/had a family, or would have. The Borg destroy beauty, natural biological desires, and individuality, and that remnant we see in the Borg is what makes them so horrific.

    Ultimately, If I have learned one thing from the internet, it is that EVERYTHING is sexy to SOMEONE. I can't fathom how anyone finds the Borg sexy, but I have no doubt someone does. And to that I say, so what?
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I would rather see a canon look for the borg, instead of this Terminator skeleton model.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,897 Community Moderator
    It's been a long time since the old FED tutorial, but I seem to recall talk among the NPCs about there being something odd about the new Borg and their behavior. Isn't it also revealed that the Borg on Vega were there all along? The result of some time travel shenanigans? We know from the Borg TFOs that they were definitely making use of time travel, so it would seem that 2409 Borg went back to Vega in the past to facilitate their invasion.

    At any rate, if the Borg get a (long overdue) visual revamp, then I would suspect Cryptic will take its que from the Borg in the upcoming Picard series.
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  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,694 Arc User
    what I'd like to see are non bipedal borg. surely there are intelligent quadrupeds out there
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    annemarie30 wrote: »
    what I'd like to see are non bipedal borg. surely there are intelligent quadrupeds out there
    There are assimilated undine.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    baddmoonrizin wrote: »
    It's been a long time since the old FED tutorial, but I seem to recall talk among the NPCs about there being something odd about the new Borg and their behavior. Isn't it also revealed that the Borg on Vega were there all along? The result of some time travel shenanigans? We know from the Borg TFOs that they were definitely making use of time travel, so it would seem that 2409 Borg went back to Vega in the past to facilitate their invasion.

    At any rate, if the Borg get a (long overdue) visual revamp, then I would suspect Cryptic will take its que from the Borg in the upcoming Picard series.

    That is basically explained in the original plot of the Khitomer Accord STF. They are trying to go back in time to Vega, building up a colony there to overrun the Federation from that point, and you stop them. That ends up explaining the previously unanswered question of why you found such weakened, easy to beat Borg at Vega because you will later beat them up in the future and leave enough scraps for yourself in the past to start your journey. It is also why the original fail condition was there, because too many Borg making it through the gate would end up killing you in the past.

    It was something like that at least, and sadly one of the casualties of their chopping to pieces of the Borg STFs.

    I'm not sure what the Fed tutorial is like these days so it may not even be relevant plot at this point.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    At any rate, if the Borg get a (long overdue) visual revamp, then I would suspect Cryptic will take its que from the Borg in the upcoming Picard series.

    indeed.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    phoenixc#0738 wrote: »
    Or they could be Borg that are so old their organic bodies have mostly failed.

    A good theory, but seems unlikely. The former Captain Rebecca Simmons (of the USS Venture), whose task force we joined in the episdoe 'Fluid Dynamics, had a very similar appearance after being assimilated into Manus of Borg:
    Special_Task_Force_-_Infected_07.jpg

    To be honest, @starkos#7355 theory makes more sense - that the Borg decided to make it all but impossible to liberate drones. As advanced as Federation science may be, we know from the Voyager episode 'Phage' that there were limitations, and in this case we're talking a body with a torso that has has literally nothing but a spine left.
    Looking at this again... it's possible they took a cue from the Borg Queen. The brain is the only really important part, so they have the head, and enough organs(natural or artificial) to support brain function. The rest of the body is probably fully mechanical.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Looking at this again... it's possible they took a cue from the Borg Queen. The brain is the only really important part, so they have the head, and enough organs(natural or artificial) to support brain function. The rest of the body is probably fully mechanical.
    But that's going against the borg's MO, assimilation. AI is easy in Star Trek, and there is technology to upload minds into computers, too. For mass assimilation to make sense, there needs to be an advantage to using organic lifeforms for drones, instead of just building robots. They are either better somehow, more resource-efficient to produce and operate, or both. Case in point, the queens' organic components are cloned. If that were the standard, why assimilate lots of average Joes when they could instead copy the best?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Looking at this again... it's possible they took a cue from the Borg Queen. The brain is the only really important part, so they have the head, and enough organs(natural or artificial) to support brain function. The rest of the body is probably fully mechanical.
    But that's going against the borg's MO, assimilation. AI is easy in Star Trek, and there is technology to upload minds into computers, too. For mass assimilation to make sense, there needs to be an advantage to using organic lifeforms for drones, instead of just building robots. They are either better somehow, more resource-efficient to produce and operate, or both. Case in point, the queens' organic components are cloned. If that were the standard, why assimilate lots of average Joes when they could instead copy the best?
    That's just it, it's a mechanical body housing an organic brain.
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc
    phoenixc#0738
         Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    Something they cut out of the original Borg episode in TNG was finding a room that was full of in-wall drawers, and in each drawer was a baby Borg. At that point the idea was that while some Borg are made, others are true cyborgs from the start. Maybe it is time for that idea again, especially with "good guy" Borg around who would probably not be so into the assimilation schtick.
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