test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Federation juggernauts

Hi.

Albeit most of sto players know that the Vaadwaur Juggernaut is in a class of its own, because they're juggernauts. My question is this:

Should we see federation, klingon, romulan and dominion juggernauts in the fall or next year? adding in these ships would be a logical progression, and much fun for those who really do want to plough through enemies in a slow tanky ship with unstoppable force.

I really like this one for the federation - but obviously made to look less friendly.

http://www.starbase400.org/avalon/ExcaliburMarkII2.JPG

Comments

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,717 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    redwren89 wrote: »
    Hi.

    Albeit most of sto players know that the Vaadwaur Juggernaut is in a class of its own, because they're juggernauts. My question is this:

    Should we see federation, klingon, romulan and dominion juggernauts in the fall or next year? adding in these ships would be a logical progression, and much fun for those who really do want to plough through enemies in a slow tanky ship with unstoppable force.

    I really like this one for the federation - but obviously made to look less friendly.

    http://www.starbase400.org/avalon/ExcaliburMarkII2.JPG

    Never really liked the whole putting all eggs in one basket mentality. Doesn't fit the federation, RR, KDF or new Dominion either.
    Just give em to the Terrans and potentially the Klingon/Cardassian alliance from the mirror universe.

    Gives us better targets to shoot at.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    The Federation will do fine with just Dreadnoughts.
    questerius wrote: »
    Never really liked the whole putting all eggs in one basket mentality. Doesn't fit the federation

    I think the Galaxy Class might want a word with you on that part; a Federation-designed, Federation-built & Federation-operated "all eggs in one basket"-style of starship designed to do practically everything short of assimilation. The "all eggs in one basket" and multi-purpose approach to ships, technology and (to a more limited extent) even personnel training is exactly how the Federation often tends to do things. Even if they don't always take to the same extreme as they did with the Galaxy Class.
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • wingedhussar#7584 wingedhussar Member Posts: 378 Community Moderator
    > @redwren89 said:
    > I really like this one for the federation - but obviously made to look less friendly.
    >
    > http://www.starbase400.org/avalon/ExcaliburMarkII2.JPG

    Just FYI, we're not getting any fan-designed ships in STO for the foreseeable future because of the fracas over the design of the Odyssey-class. That's in the FCT.
    latest?cb=20171202101458

    ...THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!
    Volunteer community moderator for the Star Trek Online forums. Not a Cryptic Studios or Perfect World employee.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,717 Arc User
    tyler002 wrote: »
    The Federation will do fine with just Dreadnoughts.
    questerius wrote: »
    Never really liked the whole putting all eggs in one basket mentality. Doesn't fit the federation

    I think the Galaxy Class might want a word with you on that part; a Federation-designed, Federation-built & Federation-operated "all eggs in one basket"-style of starship designed to do practically everything short of assimilation. The "all eggs in one basket" and multi-purpose approach to ships, technology and (to a more limited extent) even personnel training is exactly how the Federation often tends to do things. Even if they don't always take to the same extreme as they did with the Galaxy Class.

    Remember how poorly that beloved Galaxy class performed without a plot armor to save its tailpipe?
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    questerius wrote: »
    Remember how poorly that beloved Galaxy class performed without a plot armor to save its tailpipe?

    Yamato and Odyssey may not have done very well, but apparently Galaxy class starships were actually pretty powerful duing the later stages of the Dominion War after they got the refit.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    Remember how poorly that beloved Galaxy class performed without a plot armor to save its tailpipe?

    Yamato and Odyssey may not have done very well, but apparently Galaxy class starships were actually pretty powerful duing the later stages of the Dominion War after they got the refit.

    Indeed there seems to be 2 distinct production phases for the GCS, with the Enterprise and Yamato belonging to phase 1 and those were the ones that would blow up if you looked at their general direction meanly (during early TNG that is they were refitted later), phase 2 Galaxies would be the big hitters in the federation fleets during the dominion war, newer ships like the Akiras or the Sovereigns seem to be much rarer and older ships like the Mirandas aren't powerful enough anymore, leaving the Galaxies being the primary heavy hitters for Starfleet.

    We don't know which phase the Odyssey belongs but she did took extensive damage before going down (she's missing a massive chunk of the engineering hull near the main deflector dish before she explodes).

    There's also implication that namesake of the Galaxy class survived as far as Nemesis (there's a USS Galaxy in the fleet sent to meet up with the Enterprise we don't know the classes of any of those ships).
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,886 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    tyler002 wrote: »
    The Federation will do fine with just Dreadnoughts.
    questerius wrote: »
    Never really liked the whole putting all eggs in one basket mentality. Doesn't fit the federation

    I think the Galaxy Class might want a word with you on that part; a Federation-designed, Federation-built & Federation-operated "all eggs in one basket"-style of starship designed to do practically everything short of assimilation. The "all eggs in one basket" and multi-purpose approach to ships, technology and (to a more limited extent) even personnel training is exactly how the Federation often tends to do things. Even if they don't always take to the same extreme as they did with the Galaxy Class.

    The Galaxy class is basically a powerful self-escorting troop carrier that holds a full brigade for really hot planetary assaults like Chin'Toka. In peacetime the barracks and ground equipment storage areas are converted to living space suites and extra lab and recreation spaces for ultra-long deployments complete with families and civilian scientists aboard, and (in theory at least) the extensive hopper and ground support shuttle spaces repurposed for more scientific shuttles. According to dialog it can hold 6000 fully armed and equipped troops or in a pinch evacuate up to 15,000 people for short trips.

    It is anything but a small ship, I really see little need for Star Trek to jump on the bloated ship Star Wars bandwagon and start pumping out ships measured in miles instead of meters.

    It kind of wonder if the "captain's gig" may double as the core of a mobile headquarters command facility in ground campaigns though there is not much about the thing except that it exists so that is just speculation.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    tyler002 wrote: »
    The Federation will do fine with just Dreadnoughts.
    questerius wrote: »
    Never really liked the whole putting all eggs in one basket mentality. Doesn't fit the federation

    I think the Galaxy Class might want a word with you on that part; a Federation-designed, Federation-built & Federation-operated "all eggs in one basket"-style of starship designed to do practically everything short of assimilation. The "all eggs in one basket" and multi-purpose approach to ships, technology and (to a more limited extent) even personnel training is exactly how the Federation often tends to do things. Even if they don't always take to the same extreme as they did with the Galaxy Class.

    The Galaxy class is basically a powerful self-escorting troop carrier that holds a full brigade for really hot planetary assaults like Chin'Toka. In peacetime the barracks and ground equipment storage areas are converted to living space suites and extra lab and recreation spaces for ultra-long deployments complete with families and civilian scientists aboard, and (in theory at least) the extensive hopper and ground support shuttle spaces repurposed for more scientific shuttles. According to dialog it can hold 6000 fully armed and equipped troops or in a pinch evacuate up to 15,000 people for short trips.

    It is anything but a small ship, I really see little need for Star Trek to jump on the bloated ship Star Wars bandwagon and start pumping out ships measured in miles instead of meters.

    It kind of wonder if the "captain's gig" may double as the core of a mobile headquarters command facility in ground campaigns though there is not much about the thing except that it exists so that is just speculation.

    Well I suspect the Galaxy is designed and built for its peacetime role first and converted to the wartime role. That said we know that GCS is a battleship in its on right capable of taking on the equilevant klingon or romulan ships and come out on top.

    and honestly the largest federation ship in game at the moment (the Universe-class) is "only" 3 km long and no the Crossfield nor the DSC version of the Connie aren't above 1 km long.
  • thevampinatorthevampinator Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I'm guessing the two mile long ships in the 26th century was because of the threats faced at the time from the sphere builders and those spheres are massive and I imagine the enterprise j wasn't even finished before its launch. They could come up with such starship designs. Not large vessels but maybe more juggernaut. Given the limited resources I can imagine cryptic could make one cross faction design taking elements from all three factions, Starfleet, kdf and romulan republic. Would be interesting to see how a ship would look.
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,332 Arc User
    I'm guessing the two mile long ships in the 26th century was because of the threats faced at the time from the sphere builders and those spheres are massive and I imagine the enterprise j wasn't even finished before its launch. They could come up with such starship designs. Not large vessels but maybe more juggernaut. Given the limited resources I can imagine cryptic could make one cross faction design taking elements from all three factions, Starfleet, kdf and romulan republic. Would be interesting to see how a ship would look.

    I'm more to akin that exploration is getting deeper and deeper, and the voyages last many years.....you don't wanna be stuck on a small shoe box of a ship.
    dvZq2Aj.jpg
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,628 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    Remember how poorly that beloved Galaxy class performed without a plot armor to save its tailpipe?

    Yamato and Odyssey may not have done very well, but apparently Galaxy class starships were actually pretty powerful duing the later stages of the Dominion War after they got the refit.

    And so was the Excelsior class after the refit, Galaxy refits were just more common as they were designed and built in the same century as the Dominion war.
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,358 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    rattler2 wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    Remember how poorly that beloved Galaxy class performed without a plot armor to save its tailpipe?

    Yamato and Odyssey may not have done very well, but apparently Galaxy class starships were actually pretty powerful duing the later stages of the Dominion War after they got the refit.

    Yamato and Odyssey get an unfair hearing.

    Yamato: destroyed by a centuries old virus from an advanced and otherwise extinct race (the Iconians) that no-one understood. No fault on the part of the ship, its capabilities or its design. And keep in mind that same virus almost did the same to a Romulan D'Deridex.

    Odyssey: This one always gets me. The Odyssey tanked THREE Jem'Hadar attack ships. Keep in mind that Starfleet shields were, at that point in time, unable to defend against the Jem'Hadar's "phased polaron" weaponry. So, in context, the Odyssey HULL TANKED sustained attack from three Jem'Hadar warships and was still able to attempt retreat under her own power!
    Also keep in mind that it was NOT weaponsfire that destroyed the Odyssey. The Jem'Hadar had to literally ram one of their ships into the Odyssey's main deflector to destroy her. And I don't care what anyone's favourite ship class is - put a Sovereign class in that scenario, the result is the same. Put a Prometheus class in that scenario - the result is the same. No Starfleet ship of that time could survive an attack of that nature.

    So I fail to understand how it is these two ships are often used in an attempt to support the Galaxy class' supposed failings.

    And as already noted, the Galaxy and Venture (as well as unamed class members - ten Galaxy class ships were seen in 'Sacrifice of Angels) apparenty performed well during the Dominion war. We know for a fact that the USS Galaxy was still operational post-war as she was allocated to Battle Group Omega in 'Nemesis'
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,959 Arc User
    The original order NPC version of the Jupiter seemed like a Juggernaut kind of ship.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,849 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    reyan01 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    Remember how poorly that beloved Galaxy class performed without a plot armor to save its tailpipe?

    Yamato and Odyssey may not have done very well, but apparently Galaxy class starships were actually pretty powerful duing the later stages of the Dominion War after they got the refit.

    Yamato and Odyssey get an unfair hearing.

    Yamato: destroyed by a centuries old virus from an advanced and otherwise extinct race (the Iconians) that no-one understood. No fault on the part of the ship, its capabilities or its design. And keep in mind that same virus almost did the same to a Romulan D'Deridex.

    Odyssey: This one always gets me. The Odyssey tanked THREE Jem'Hadar attack ships. Keep in mind that Starfleet shields were, at that point in time, unable to defend against the Jem'Hadar's "phased polaron" weaponry. So, in context, the Odyssey HULL TANKED sustained attack from three Jem'Hadar warships and was still able to attempt retreat under her own power!
    Also keep in mind that it was NOT weaponsfire that destroyed the Odyssey. The Jem'Hadar had to literally ram one of their ships into the Odyssey's main deflector to destroy her. And I don't care what anyone's favourite ship class is - put a Sovereign class in that scenario, the result is the same. Put a Prometheus class in that scenario - the result is the same. No Starfleet ship of that time could survive an attack of that nature.

    So I fail to understand how it is these two ships are often used in an attempt to support the Galaxy class' supposed failings.

    And as already noted, the Galaxy and Venture (as well as unamed class members - ten Galaxy class ships were seen in 'Sacrifice of Angels) apparenty performed well during the Dominion war. We know for a fact that the USS Galaxy was still operational post-war as she was allocated to Battle Group Omega in 'Nemesis'

    and i would also like to point out that, during the battle of chin'toka, a galaxy was seen taking SEVERAL hits from heavy spiral-wave disruptor beams fired by the defense platforms with barely a scratch...while d'deridexes were being hit by those same beams and absolutely torn to shreds​​
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!

    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    Remember how poorly that beloved Galaxy class performed without a plot armor to save its tailpipe?

    Yamato and Odyssey may not have done very well, but apparently Galaxy class starships were actually pretty powerful duing the later stages of the Dominion War after they got the refit.

    Yamato and Odyssey get an unfair hearing.

    Yamato: destroyed by a centuries old virus from an advanced and otherwise extinct race (the Iconians) that no-one understood. No fault on the part of the ship, its capabilities or its design. And keep in mind that same virus almost did the same to a Romulan D'Deridex.
    Well allowing a rogue unknown code to disable critical systems like the warpcore containment is a design flaw granted one Starfleet quickly(relatively speaking) fixed, last time we see the flawed "blows up if you sneeze at it" warpcore design was in "Cause and Effect" in season 5 of TNG and after that it took serious damage to cause the core to go critical even before that several fixes were made to improve the warpcore.

    On the matter of the Odessey I agree 100%.

    In all the frailty of the GCS is a brainbug similar to the firing accuracity (or lack of it) of Stormtroopers in Star Wars, when you look at all the evidence is context stormtroopers are as accurate if not slightly better then modern soldiers (in combat conditions that is not at the range) and the Galaxy-class while it had some issues at the start is nowhere as frail as it's assumed most of the time.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,849 Arc User
    and all those people continuing to point out the inaccuracies of stormtroopers - frequently citing one throwaway line said by luke (and it wasn't even him - it was mark hamill saying it to harrison ford and they decided to add it to the actual movie) as 'evidence'...while conveniently ignoring the OTHER line spoken by obi-wan
    And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise.
    ​​
    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!

    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,717 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    Remember how poorly that beloved Galaxy class performed without a plot armor to save its tailpipe?

    Yamato and Odyssey may not have done very well, but apparently Galaxy class starships were actually pretty powerful duing the later stages of the Dominion War after they got the refit.

    Fun little fact: when shown in battle scenes from the Dominion war, the Galaxy class vessels only demolished Cardassian vessels. Never JH ships. So the question is how potent they were against anything not obsolete (like Cardassian vessels).
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    and all those people continuing to point out the inaccuracies of stormtroopers - frequently citing one throwaway line said by luke (and it wasn't even him - it was mark hamill saying it to harrison ford and they decided to add it to the actual movie) as 'evidence'...while conveniently ignoring the OTHER line spoken by obi-wan
    And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise.
    ​​
    Not mention both really hard shots Stormtroopers do hit (Leia and R2D2 at the battle of Endor) and those times when told to miss (at DS1 and Bespin) they miss so closely that if it was a mistake at least 1 bolt should have hit by sheer blind luck.
  • tyler002tyler002 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    Pretty much all villainous redshirts have TRIBBLE accuracy against main characters, unless they've reach the end of their usefulness to the script.

    The Stormtroopers must really be clones of Worf...
    tumblr_p7auh1JPC61qfr6udo4_500.gif
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    Please stay on topic. Thank you.
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of PWE/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of PWE/Cryptic
    Contact Customer Support --> https://support.arcgames.com
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
    Want the latest information on Star Trek Online? Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,647 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    The Galaxy's Saucer was also supposed to have landing gear and was meant to land and take off from the surface, either delivering stuff or function as a temporary colony center. Time constraints forced them to finish the filming model without the landing gear though (info from the Eaglemoss Starship Collection magazine). Considering that the Galaxy was really one class that could do it all. Logically, in STO, the Oddyssey class is it's successor and would be the "Juggernaut" of the fleet.

    Sadly, Cryptic made so many ships bigger and bigger, like the Command ships and the Miracle Worker ships - the latter would be awesome if they could separate the dorsal part and transforn into two full ships, by the way. But size wise, those are big as well.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • redwren89redwren89 Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    Hey guys.

    I'm so amazed and relieved that I didn't start another uninteresting thread and thankyou for your responses thus far.

    We have ships that seem to get bigger and bigger in terms of stats, hull etc. That's expected power creep. On a side note, putting race specific juggernauts into the mix seems like a good reason to keep up the incessant creep.

    Ships keep getting bigger, but the Buran didn't. I mean she's tiny compared to a galaxy, but has more hull and shields and is a command ship. I think we should take a leaf out of star wars book of monstrous ship terrors and develop some pinnacle kitchen sink utility ships, with all eggs in one giant warpcore xd. Chicken warpcore that is.

    But alas, being bigger isn't necessarily better, however being better oftens involves going bigger and with the 'ever increasing threats to the galaxy' and such a huge powerful alliance spanning the entire galaxy, where are our big ships that signify togetherness and safety in this daunting astronomical space? :)
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,462 Arc User
    edited August 2019
    I'm surprised no one has asked for the Varro Generational Ship from Voyager's 'The Disease' Episode. ;)

    You want big, you got big.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
Sign In or Register to comment.