There will be a buyout option associated with the Event, which can be purchased from the Zen Store to receive 10 Featured TFO Commendations and 1 Ultimate Tech Upgrade.
Shouldn't this come with 500 Coupon Progress Tokens instead of the Ultimate like the Operation Riposte's buyout did?
It came with 10 TFO Commendations, 500 Coupon Progress, and an Ultimate Upgrade Token.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Hoarding is keeping them in inventory and not using them. Why anyone would do this is beyond me, but apparently it happens.
When I use the reputation system, I always make sure I have everything before I start a project. EC, expertise, marks, dilithium, elite marks. All at once. Why should I start a project before I have everything? Thats makes no sense. Same with events. Im just used to making sure I have everything before I start a project. We also dont have unlimited event slots available.
Why would I start a project knowing that I would lose everything I invested if I cancel it? Maybe I fill all slots and need one more but none are available?
How could we know that we will ever use the same token in the future again? Evidently not all events return.
Those that slotted the PROJECT will get rewarded regardless of whether they spent or even earned a token or not. If this is you, congratulations. Those that hoarded tokens but didn't slot projects will be the unfortunate ones, though. If this is you, my condolences.
This is the hypocrisy I pointed out. Which is in no way name calling, insulting or flaming btw.
Those that have the tokens will get rewarded.
The others who also have the tokens will get nothing.
Your condolences only serve as another insult towards those that lose the time spent on those events while others get rewarded for being lazy.
Those items WERE worth something - and since they've ALWAYS been worth something - is it REALLY smart to PUNISH people for PLAYING your game?
Big shame on Cryptic for just wiping items I earned, without giving anything back in return!
Is that how you treat paying customers and others? What would the developers think if someone just would remove items from them. Real items have value and virtual items too. So disappointing if things get deleted without compensation.
At least give a decent amount of dillitium for items that get deleted. This debacle could be handled much better. The fact that some people even defend item deletion this, is beyond any empathy for the players of this game.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
Um... no. There is a difference between stockpiling for future projects without a project slotted and having a project slotted but incomplete due to extenuating circumstances.
For example if someone managed to get half the project done, but couldn't finish because of some Real Life event... that doesn't make them lazy.
You're insulting quite a few people by implying they could have finished when they may very well have been prevented from doing so by events outside their control. And your attitude is kinda making it clear you don't care and just want to cause a fight at this point. This is geared towards people who couldn't finish the project. Not people who went the extra mile to stockpile.
Stop with the 'hoarding' BS already. I slotted the Projects in the past and completed them. I have extra 'Tokens' from those various Events to provide a buffer in the future, you know like you can do with the TFO Commendations, which they let you BUY in the C-Store.
In the past when they stopped with the non-Unique yearly 'Tokens' for the Summer, Winter, and Anniversary Events, they had a buyback. In the case of these 14-day Event Tokens, they were UBIQUITOUS, meaning they could be used for any FUTURE Event of that type. Instead of converting those 'Tokens' into TFO Commendations they are just throwing them away (which requires an effort on Cryptics part). So all this talk about not having time to come up with a conversion method is just blather.
Side note. I have 41 TFO Commendations on my Discovery Character.
You will note that they pulled back on the Weekend Event 'conversions' until later this Summer instead of doing it this week. You will also note that for this it was announced one week and will be implemented the week after. All to rush into another TFO Event. They must really want to push those C-Store Bundles.
Also you will note that they have absolutely no consistency in the use of the various 'Stores' they use for Account Unlocks. Instead of using the Event Store 'Account Unlock Rewards' Tab, they are putting this into the Dilitium Store (which can be used for Character Claim Unlocks as well as Account Claim Unlocks). Sometime in the future you will see this Dilitium Store Claims Tab also be deprecated with stuff moving to the Phoenix Store except those Account Unlocks.
They're "putting this into the Dilithium Store" because it's already there for these 3-week event items, both character and account unlocks, and has been the whole time that they existed. Keeping things in the same place that they already were, which were sorted by the category of event from which they were obtained, if pretty darned consisitent. Your future prediction for it is about as credible as saying that some special item unlock from one of these events will be character unlock after they converted them to account unlock.
Also, it says nowhere in this blog, or on their social media sites, that they've "pulled back on the Weekend Event 'conversions'" at all. They are on the list of projects being completed, as is the First Contact Day event, and the later bullet point says that all of the tokens used in the above projects are being removed. I believe that the only projects impacted by this for Weekend Events would be the first couple of Arena of Sompek events and the first Kobayashi Maru event, before the Weekend Event store was created.
And what about weekend event vouchers? They will be removed on Thursday, too? I still have 13 unspent tokens.
The blog says that they will be removed, so my advice right now is to use them. Unlike the various event tokens, there is something to spend them on already in place, the 2000 dilithium ore per voucher purchase. Just to be safe, you'll probably want to buy those with your extra vouchers.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
For example if someone managed to get half the project done, but couldn't finish because of some Real Life event... that doesn't make them lazy.
If I have more tokens in my inventory than that player has slotted then I will get punished for having done more because I get nothing. It literally doesnt matter why they didnt finish the project. They get the FULL reward just by slotting one token. Not having done enough gets full reward. How the hull is that fair???
This has been a long time coming, and honestly? No matter what Cryptic did someone would be unhappy.
Kudos to Cryptic for making a hard call, and on balance - doing the right thing. I won't lose anything by this or gain anything. Any spare event tokens I have dumped in the past - any incomplete event projects, I've cancelled if I can't finish them. Those choices were my own.
Can't fault Cryptic on this 😊
6th June can get back to collecting vouchers towards the free ship. The mine console looks fun. Either way, I'll be taking part.
People ask how long have I been playing STO - well the answer is simple: I have been here since the beginning. I just haven't always had a lot to say.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
How is it fair? Lets see... you didn't have the project slotted. They other person did.
And the mechanics behind it are that the system can tell who has those projects actively slotted right now. The system does NOT know what your intentions were as it is not all knowing. If you didn't have a project slotted, then all you're getting is your inventory slots back.
So stop calling people who couldn't finish it lazy. And stop calling hypocracy if you're the one who decided to just stockpile without slotting projects and expect to be rewarded for hoarding. How does the system know what to give you if you don't have a project slotted? You expecting them to just GIVE you everything just because you decided to hoard the tokens for a rainy day?
Let it go dude. You're derailing the thread with your ranting.
The management of this game over the past 10 months has been atrocious. This type of "thinking" is a great example of it: If you didn't play and don't have tokens we will give you everything for free. If you did play and have tokens we will take those away and give you nothing.
This has been a long time coming, and honestly? No matter what Cryptic did someone would be unhappy.
They could place an NPC somewhere to convert the tokens. Those with the slotted tokens automatically get their reward without doing anything. How would that make anyone unhappy??
How is it fair? Lets see... you didn't have the project slotted. They other person did.
And the mechanics behind it are that the system can tell who has those projects actively slotted right now. The system does NOT know what your intentions were as it is not all knowing. If you didn't have a project slotted, then all you're getting is your inventory slots back.
What an utterly absurd argument. I lose the tokens, get inventory space and should be grateful for that?
And stop calling hypocracy if you're the one who decided to just stockpile without slotting projects and expect to be rewarded for hoarding.
You just dont get it, do you?
Players slotted at least one token -> full reward
Players have at least one token in inventory -> no reward
Thats by definition hypocrisy!
How does the system know what to give you if you don't have a project slotted? You expecting them to just GIVE you everything just because you decided to hoard the tokens for a rainy day?
And there it is. The "you just want handouts" argument.
Let it go dude. You're derailing the thread with your ranting.
You make only absurd claims to justify this TRIBBLE. Dont project your ignorance onto me. I dont have to take this TRIBBLE from anyone.
I say it as many times as it needs to be said:
All they have to do is place an NPC somewhere where we can just convert our old tokens into something useful. Drozana station already has some of them. How hard can it be to add another TEMPORARILY?
How is it fair? Lets see... you didn't have the project slotted. They other person did.
And the mechanics behind it are that the system can tell who has those projects actively slotted right now. The system does NOT know what your intentions were as it is not all knowing. If you didn't have a project slotted, then all you're getting is your inventory slots back.
So stop calling people who couldn't finish it lazy. And stop calling hypocracy if you're the one who decided to just stockpile without slotting projects and expect to be rewarded for hoarding. How does the system know what to give you if you don't have a project slotted? You expecting them to just GIVE you everything just because you decided to hoard the tokens for a rainy day?
Let it go dude. You're derailing the thread with your ranting.
Please explain: what is good about removing items from some players without compensation? E.g. Why not give in return, the value in dilithium, players otherwise would have gotten? Why no empathy towards people who are negatively affected?
These Bonus Projects are not worth the effort for many as they award 2k Dilitium, 50 Fleet Marks, and 35 Marks of your choice (excluding Discovery). A mere bag of shells.
Stop using the word hoarding. Does everyone forget Aesop's Fable 373, 'The Ant and the Grasshopper'?
That is, of course, your opinion and you have every right to it. I apologize, that you find the word "hoarding" so offensive. Is "stockpiling" more to your liking? Perhaps, "saving" or "collecting" works better for you?
When I use the reputation system, I always make sure I have everything before I start a project. EC, expertise, marks, dilithium, elite marks. All at once. Why should I start a project before I have everything? Thats makes no sense. Same with events. Im just used to making sure I have everything before I start a project. We also dont have unlimited event slots available.
Why would I start a project knowing that I would lose everything I invested if I cancel it? Maybe I fill all slots and need one more but none are available?
How could we know that we will ever use the same token in the future again? Evidently not all events return.
Reputation projects are always there to be run whenever the player wants. Limited-time eventsprojects are by their very definition only available for a limited time. So, the comparison isn't really valid. My question would be: why WOULDN'T you slot it while you can? And why accumulate (not hoard, of course, because that might be offensive) event tokens to take up valuable inventory space, and not allocate them immediately towards the project that's being worked on? It would seem an incredible waste of time otherwise.
This is the hypocrisy I pointed out. Which is in no way name calling, insulting or flaming btw.
Those that have the tokens will get rewarded.
The others who also have the tokens will get nothing.
Your condolences only serve as another insult towards those that lose the time spent on those events while others get rewarded for being lazy.
Those items WERE worth something - and since they've ALWAYS been worth something - is it REALLY smart to PUNISH people for PLAYING your game?
This is not hypocrisy. I don't think you know what that means. But yes, it is insulting to accuse someone of such. Regardless, you're not listening. Tokens, no tokens is irrelevant. The slotting of the project is the determining factor on who gets what.
How in the world can offering condolences be considered an insult? Also, did you just gloss over the part where I stated that even I have tokens saved (not hoarded, of course, can't say hoarded) that I will also be losing? Yeah, it does suck to lose them, but punished? That sounds a bit extreme. If you really feel that way, I don't know what to say to that. But just to point out... ummm... it's not MY game.
Look, I understand that you're upset here, but you're going overboard about it, and continuing to flame and insult others is just not going to end well for you.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
These Bonus Projects are not worth the effort for many as they award 2k Dilitium, 50 Fleet Marks, and 35 Marks of your choice (excluding Discovery). A mere bag of shells.
Stop using the word hoarding. Does everyone forget Aesop's Fable 373, 'The Ant and the Grasshopper'?
That is, of course, your opinion and you have every right to it. I apologize, that you find the word "hoarding" so offensive. Is "stockpiling" more to your liking? Perhaps, "saving" or "collecting" works better for you?
When I use the reputation system, I always make sure I have everything before I start a project. EC, expertise, marks, dilithium, elite marks. All at once. Why should I start a project before I have everything? Thats makes no sense. Same with events. Im just used to making sure I have everything before I start a project. We also dont have unlimited event slots available.
Why would I start a project knowing that I would lose everything I invested if I cancel it? Maybe I fill all slots and need one more but none are available?
How could we know that we will ever use the same token in the future again? Evidently not all events return.
Reputation projects are always there to be run whenever the player wants. Limited-time eventsprojects are by their very definition only available for a limited time. So, the comparison isn't really valid. My question would be: why WOULDN'T you slot it while you can? And why accumulate (not hoard, of course, because that might be offensive) event tokens to take up valuable inventory space, and not allocate them immediately towards the project that's being worked on? It would seem an incredible waste of time otherwise.
This is the hypocrisy I pointed out. Which is in no way name calling, insulting or flaming btw.
Those that have the tokens will get rewarded.
The others who also have the tokens will get nothing.
Your condolences only serve as another insult towards those that lose the time spent on those events while others get rewarded for being lazy.
Those items WERE worth something - and since they've ALWAYS been worth something - is it REALLY smart to PUNISH people for PLAYING your game?
This is not hypocrisy. I don't think you know what that means. But yes, it is insulting to accuse someone of such. Regardless, you're not listening. Tokens, no tokens is irrelevant. The slotting of the project is the determining factor on who gets what.
How in the world can offering condolences be considered an insult? Also, did you just gloss over the part where I stated that even I have tokens saved (not hoarded, of course, can't say hoarded) that I will also be losing? Yeah, it does suck to lose them, but punished? That sounds a bit extreme. If you really feel that way, I don't know what to say to that. But just to point out... ummm... it's not MY game.
Please consider some people are not native English speaking (actually a lot of people). Hence discussing if correct words are used, or writings are well phrased, is distracting from the main point, which is: some people will loose items without any compensation. That could be handle better by Cryptic. For example compensate for each deleted item an amount of dilli.
Please consider some people are not native English speaking (actually a lot of people). Hence discussing if correct words are used, or writings are well phrased, is distracting from the main point, which is: some people will loose items without any compensation. That could be handle better by Cryptic. For example compensate for each deleted item an amount of dilli.
Please consider that I have considered that, and that is exactly why I'm pointing it out, since it is indeed insulting and he doesn't seem to understand that. You are correct, though. Unfortunately, some people, including myself, will lose something without compensation. Could it have been handled differently? Yes. Better? That's debatable.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Please explain: what is good about removing items from some players without compensation? E.g. Why not give in return, the value in dilithium, players otherwise would have gotten? Why no empathy towards people who are negatively affected?
First part: could be a technical issue in determining exactly how much to give. Therefor its not an easy solution and, like the Foundry, one they had tried to find a solution that ultimately was limited by available tech like the game engine or pieces of code. Therefor entirely possible that it was out of their hands.
Second part: I have empathy. Its also one of the reasons why I feel STO does things better than most MMOs, in being more generous with the events and allowing for alternate means of getting things later on down the road or even a means of buying it out in cases of emergency rather than just saying "Sorry Out of Luck" if you miss even one day. Its just that the Empathy ends when accusations of malpractice or malice are used as a reason to launch attacks.
You just dont get it, do you?
Players slotted at least one token -> full reward
Players have at least one token in inventory -> no reward
You keep ignoring one key element.
ACTUALLY HAVING THE PROJECT SLOTTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
The system cannot give you anything if you don't have something to flag that particular item as in progress, IE the project to actually get said item.
Just having the currency isn't enough. You must have had the project slotted. You could have enough tokens to get two rewards from Crystalline... but the server doesn't know what you want as we have had several Crystalline events. Do you want the shard pet or the Antiproton torpedo? It doesn't know without the project slotted.
Just having the tokens does not entitle you to anything without the appropriate project in progress.
Reputation projects are always there to be run whenever the player wants. Limited-time eventsprojects are by their very definition only available for a limited time. So, the comparison isn't really valid.
It doesnt matter when I run the project for a reputation. And there are six slots for events and this whole time we are talking about people who partially filled these slots so they can soon be rewarded in full. How is that "available for a limited time"???
My question would be: why WOULDN'T you slot it while you can?
I answered that. I collected enough for one project, did the project and then repeated the process. Not everyone likes to look at partially filled projects. Personally it irritates me.
But yes, it is insulting to accuse someone of such. Regardless, you're not listening.
Dont play the innocent. You have done much worse to me in the last weeks for no appearent reason up to threatening me and abused your moderator powers repeatedly.
Tokens, no tokens is irrelevant. The slotting of the project is the determining factor on who gets what.
Which is exactly the problem!! How many times do I have to explain this injustice??
Player one has at least one token slotted and gets the full reward.
Player two has at least one token in the inventory and gets nothing.
Instead of pushing the devs to reconsider so everyone gets the proper reward you just shrug it off with "It's not a kick to anything". But it is.
How in the world can offering condolences be considered an insult?
Because you are patronizing, condescending, sarcastic about a serious topic and threatened me which makes me doubt that you are sincere when offering it.
Also, did you just gloss over the part where I stated that even I have tokens saved (not hoarded, of course, can't say hoarded) that I will also be losing?
Look, I understand that you're upset here, but you're going overboard about it, and continuing to flame and insult others is just not going to end well for you.
And we are back to the twisting of my words and threats. Its only insulting and flaming when other than you does it, right? But I have to take it from you??
When I use the reputation system, I always make sure I have everything before I start a project. EC, expertise, marks, dilithium, elite marks. All at once. Why should I start a project before I have everything? Thats makes no sense. Same with events. Im just used to making sure I have everything before I start a project. We also dont have unlimited event slots available.
Why would I start a project knowing that I would lose everything I invested if I cancel it? Maybe I fill all slots and need one more but none are available?
How could we know that we will ever use the same token in the future again? Evidently not all events return.
This makes no sense. It reads more like mental gymnastics on your part. Like you're desperate to manufacture a winning argument. If you somehow actually believe this, then you don't know what you're doing. Crystalline/Mirror etc events always come back around and old slotted projects could always be completed a year, or two or three later.
What you never could do is slot a project after the event has ended. So it makes absolutely no sense to stockpile all your tokens only to then slot and complete the project. What if you get 13 of them and then you're hospitalized without slotting the project? That would be a huge mistake. This also doesn't line up with your concerns about stockpiling more tokens for future events that you (presumably) wouldn't even be able to slot if you miss them.
Also, we have plenty of event slots and with account unlocks you can have so many slots across multiple characters that arguing about "limited" slots is vapid and meaningless.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Cryptic really needs to consider what allowing TFO token stockpiling from CC will mean for future events. CC is so easy and fast to complete (compared to other events) that people will easily be able to stockpile 100+ tokens for use on future less desirable events (Mirror & Breach). Therefore IMO tokens acquired during this event should only be usable on this event's project.
Think about it, in the past if YOU could have stockpiled Crystalline shards to use on Breach and Mirror, would you have stockpiled them? ABSOLUTELY.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
This makes no sense. It reads more like mental gymnastics on your part. Like you're desperate to manufacture a winning argument. If you somehow actually believe this, then you don't know what you're doing.
There are two ways to do this.
- slot it instantly
- slot it when all requirements are met
Why is either wrong/right or one more right than the other? According to who?
Crystalline/Mirror etc events always come back around and old slotted projects could always be completed a year, or two or three later.
It totally makes sense to keep those projects slotted for years... without actually knowing if they ever return... Especially for players who havent played the full last years and considering the many events that didnt return in forseeable time.
What you never could do is slot a project after the event has ended. So it makes absolutely no sense to stockpile all your tokens only to then slot and complete the project. What if you get 13 of them and then you're hospitalized without slotting the project?
What if the apocalypse starts tomorrow?? And you accuse me of mental gymnastics?!
This also doesn't line up with your concerns about stockpiling more tokens for future events that you (presumably) wouldn't even be able to slot if you miss them.
Im talking about past tokens, not about future tokens. The blog implies there will be changes to tokens for future events which I didnt adress anywhere.
Also, we have plenty of event slots and with account unlocks you can have so many slots across multiple characters that arguing about "limited" slots is vapid and meaningless.
Those items are character bound which means not tradable or movable to other characters. And you are limited to five event slots per character. So account unlocks and items on other characters with no old tokens are irrelevant.
Please explain: what is good about removing items from some players without compensation? E.g. Why not give in return, the value in dilithium, players otherwise would have gotten? Why no empathy towards people who are negatively affected?
First part: could be a technical issue in determining exactly how much to give. Therefor its not an easy solution and, like the Foundry, one they had tried to find a solution that ultimately was limited by available tech like the game engine or pieces of code. Therefor entirely possible that it was out of their hands.
Second part: I have empathy. Its also one of the reasons why I feel STO does things better than most MMOs, in being more generous with the events and allowing for alternate means of getting things later on down the road or even a means of buying it out in cases of emergency rather than just saying "Sorry Out of Luck" if you miss even one day. Its just that the Empathy ends when accusations of malpractice or malice are used as a reason to launch attacks.
You just dont get it, do you?
Players slotted at least one token -> full reward
Players have at least one token in inventory -> no reward
You keep ignoring one key element.
ACTUALLY HAVING THE PROJECT SLOTTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
The system cannot give you anything if you don't have something to flag that particular item as in progress, IE the project to actually get said item.
Just having the currency isn't enough. You must have had the project slotted. You could have enough tokens to get two rewards from Crystalline... but the server doesn't know what you want as we have had several Crystalline events. Do you want the shard pet or the Antiproton torpedo? It doesn't know without the project slotted.
Just having the tokens does not entitle you to anything without the appropriate project in progress.
It is highly unlikely that the STO developers cannot create batch-job that compensates all players for removed items, e.g. in the form of dilithium.
There arr far more complex algorithms, database queries and coding then that in STO.
And even if it would not be possible, as you claim, to simply replace items via an automated algorithm, then they still could adapt the existing exchange functionality (like e.g. latinum exchange) so players can manually exchange the obsoleted items for dilithium themselves instead of just deleting them.
Comparing the coding required for this, with the complexity of the Foundry coding, as you do, is not realistic.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
Here's the thing.
We're not coders. So why does everyone act like they are? I cited the Foundry due to the fact it is a recent thing that they TRIED to solve with no success. We don't know how long they've worked on this thing either, let alone if they could find a solution or not. I provided one possible theory. Nothing more. I don't claim to know how the game is coded and if something is absolutely possible or not.
As for the dilithium... it could also be an economy thing.
Fact of the matter is we don't know all the variables.
There are two ways to do this.
- slot it instantly - slot it when all requirements are met/U[]
Why is either wrong/right or one more right than the other? According to who?
The bolded/underlined portion is absolutely wrong. If extenuating circumstances occur, you WILL NOT be able to slot that project in the future. You'll be forced to get your goodies from the phoenix pack instead. Always slot the project immediately.
Im talking about past tokens, not about future tokens. The blog implies there will be changes to tokens for future events which I didnt adress anywhere.
I'm also talking about past tokens and the idea of stockpiling them for future events. Truth is sometimes the investments that you make don't work out.
Those items are character bound which means not tradable or movable to other characters. And you are limited to five event slots per character. So account unlocks and items on other characters with no old tokens are irrelevant.
Older event items were character unlocks but have shifted over to account unlocks in recent times. Therefore, any concern over the number of slots is irrelevant.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Reputation projects are always there to be run whenever the player wants. Limited-time eventsprojects are by their very definition only available for a limited time. So, the comparison isn't really valid.
It doesnt matter when I run the project for a reputation. And there are six slots for events and this whole time we are talking about people who partially filled these slots so they can soon be rewarded in full. How is that "available for a limited time"???
There's actually only 5 event slots. What they are doing is actually not just autocompleting partially completed projects, but also any of the projects from events they listed, even if they have no tokens in them.
The projects are "available for a limited time" in the sense that they are available to slot during the event period. Once the event period is up, you're out of luck if you didn't slot it.
My question would be: why WOULDN'T you slot it while you can?
I answered that. I collected enough for one project, did the project and then repeated the process. Not everyone likes to look at partially filled projects. Personally it irritates me.
So, don't put anything into the project until you have enough tokens for the next go around?
Tokens, no tokens is irrelevant. The slotting of the project is the determining factor on who gets what.
Which is exactly the problem!! How many times do I have to explain this injustice??
Player one has at least one token slotted and gets the full reward.
Player two has at least one token in the inventory and gets nothing.
Instead of pushing the devs to reconsider so everyone gets the proper reward you just shrug it off with "It's not a kick to anything". But it is. [/quote]
Actually, there are a few cases that will apply here.
1) Players who have tokens, but no slotted projects obviously will get nothing.
2) Players who have no tokens, but slotted projects (but not partially completed) will have those projects completed.
3) Players whom have no tokens and partially completed projects will have those projects completed.
The people whom lose out are the ones whom have no slotted projects.
Also, did you just gloss over the part where I stated that even I have tokens saved (not hoarded, of course, can't say hoarded) that I will also be losing?
Where did I what over what you said where?
To gloss over means to ignore what he was saying about him losing out since he has accumulated tokens he has not turned in.
Yeah, it does suck to lose them, but punished? That sounds a bit extreme.
If I dont get the same reward like others with the same amount of time spent for an event than thats being punished.
There's a clear difference though between someone like you decided not to slot a project because as you said, incomplete projects irritate you, and people who did slot a project.
People who slotted projects but either left them incomplete or simply started them without inputting anything (like for example they had a previous project completed and didn't have time to do the new one) are still gonna get their time rewarded.
In my opinion, Cryptic is making amends for people whom won't be able to get the tokens anymore. I don't think they can be at fault for people deciding to keep their tokens for the next round, considering that they did offer a bonus project.
What they are doing is actually not just autocompleting partially completed projects, but also any of the projects from events they listed, even if they have no tokens in them.
So full reward for not even having one token aquired or invested... Wow.
The projects are "available for a limited time" in the sense that they are available to slot during the event period. Once the event period is up, you're out of luck if you didn't slot it.
If people get the full reward soon for having started a very old project without adding any tokens then its not "available for a limited time". They got around it by starting the project! Full reward for no time investment at all! This is borderline exploiting and they are rewarding players for it!
1) Players who have tokens, but no slotted projects obviously will get nothing.
2) Players who have no tokens, but slotted projects (but not partially completed) will have those projects completed.
3) Players whom have no tokens and partially completed projects will have those projects completed.
What exactly is a "partially completed project" compared to a "partually slotted project"?
The people whom lose out are the ones whom have no slotted projects.
Thats what Ive been saying this whole time. Its a giant middle finger for those that spent time on events unlike those that just started the project but never added any tokens.
To gloss over means to ignore what he was saying about him losing out since he has accumulated tokens he has not turned in.
Unfortunately my dictionary doesnt agree. But I understand the meaning. I tried to find his comment where he said something him having and losing tokens but I couldnt find it.
There's a clear difference though between someone like you decided not to slot a project because as you said, incomplete projects irritate you, and people who did slot a project.
There is a clear difference between someone getting the full reward for no tokens and someone getting no reward for having tokens. Its irrelevant where the tokens are.
People who slotted projects but either left them incomplete or simply started them without inputting anything (like for example they had a previous project completed and didn't have time to do the new one) are still gonna get their time rewarded.
Well, duh. This is the injustice Ive been pointing out which you pointed out several times in a single comment. Yet you dont condemn the injustice.
I don't think they can be at fault for people deciding to keep their tokens for the next round, considering that they did offer a bonus project.
They are at fault for not rewarding dedicated players because they arent competent enough to figure out a way for players to convert the remaining tokens into a reward. I offered such a solution: an NPC like those on drozana station where you turn in other specific tokens.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
Again... how does the system know what those tokens are for without the project slotted?
You're asking for everything they ever released on the sole case of "I have tokens in my inventory", and citing your own personal preference for not slotting an event project for 14 days after it starts. We don't know which ones you've done. The server doesn't know which ones you've done. The Devs don't know which ones you've done.
No Project, no gubbin. Because that is how the server is figuring out what to give. Give the gubbin that corresponds to the slotted project. Just having the currency alone doesn't entitle you to the gubbin.
Now can you put your pitchfork away now? Pretty sure we've explained it every which way except in Klingon by now, and it is derailing this thread something fierce.
No matter what players think and would appreciate I fear. They probably just do what they do and delete items without compensation. Has it ever been any different? I cannot imagine they will spend effort on providing a solution compensating those players with e.g. dili who have items in their inventory which will get deleted.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
DL might be an economy issue. Rep marks might just get piled onto the newest one and thus no one runs the associated STFs.
Again... we players don't have access to the data the Devs have that drives decisions.
Again... how does the system know what those tokens are for without the project slotted?
You're asking for everything they ever released on the sole case of "I have tokens in my inventory", and citing your own personal preference for not slotting an event project for 14 days after it starts. We don't know which ones you've done. The server doesn't know which ones you've done. The Devs don't know which ones you've done.
No Project, no gubbin. Because that is how the server is figuring out what to give. Give the gubbin that corresponds to the slotted project. Just having the currency alone doesn't entitle you to the gubbin.
Now can you put your pitchfork away now? Pretty sure we've explained it every which way except in Klingon by now, and it is derailing this thread something fierce.
Well all that would be no problem if players could turn in those tokens for themselves at Drozana (like is done before in other cases) and exchange then for dilithium for example.
You're asking for everything they ever released on the sole case of "I have tokens in my inventory", and citing your own personal preference for not slotting an event project for 14 days after it starts. We don't know which ones you've done. The server doesn't know which ones you've done. The Devs don't know which ones you've done.
Yes, I have tokens I havent slotted and Im frustrated that the devs cant create a system to reward me for it while they reward others with no tokens at all. Its totally my fault that the system is so badly designed and the solution offered by the devs so utterly unjust... /s
Dont you get that you are defending their incompetence??
No Project, no gubbin. Because that is how the server is figuring out what to give. Give the gubbin that corresponds to the slotted project. Just having the currency alone doesn't entitle you to the gubbin.
But having the empty project entitles others to the gubbin. 'facepalms'
Now can you put your pitchfork away now? Pretty sure we've explained it every which way except in Klingon by now, and it is derailing this thread something fierce.
Obviously you havent grasped it after so many attempt at all. Your ignorance and the devs lack of empathy is derailing this game.
Comments
Shouldn't this come with 500 Coupon Progress Tokens instead of the Ultimate like the Operation Riposte's buyout did?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Why would I start a project knowing that I would lose everything I invested if I cancel it? Maybe I fill all slots and need one more but none are available?
How could we know that we will ever use the same token in the future again? Evidently not all events return.
This is the hypocrisy I pointed out. Which is in no way name calling, insulting or flaming btw.
Those that have the tokens will get rewarded.
The others who also have the tokens will get nothing.
Your condolences only serve as another insult towards those that lose the time spent on those events while others get rewarded for being lazy.
Those items WERE worth something - and since they've ALWAYS been worth something - is it REALLY smart to PUNISH people for PLAYING your game?
Is that how you treat paying customers and others? What would the developers think if someone just would remove items from them. Real items have value and virtual items too. So disappointing if things get deleted without compensation.
At least give a decent amount of dillitium for items that get deleted. This debacle could be handled much better. The fact that some people even defend item deletion this, is beyond any empathy for the players of this game.
For example if someone managed to get half the project done, but couldn't finish because of some Real Life event... that doesn't make them lazy.
You're insulting quite a few people by implying they could have finished when they may very well have been prevented from doing so by events outside their control. And your attitude is kinda making it clear you don't care and just want to cause a fight at this point. This is geared towards people who couldn't finish the project. Not people who went the extra mile to stockpile.
They're "putting this into the Dilithium Store" because it's already there for these 3-week event items, both character and account unlocks, and has been the whole time that they existed. Keeping things in the same place that they already were, which were sorted by the category of event from which they were obtained, if pretty darned consisitent. Your future prediction for it is about as credible as saying that some special item unlock from one of these events will be character unlock after they converted them to account unlock.
Also, it says nowhere in this blog, or on their social media sites, that they've "pulled back on the Weekend Event 'conversions'" at all. They are on the list of projects being completed, as is the First Contact Day event, and the later bullet point says that all of the tokens used in the above projects are being removed. I believe that the only projects impacted by this for Weekend Events would be the first couple of Arena of Sompek events and the first Kobayashi Maru event, before the Weekend Event store was created.
The blog says that they will be removed, so my advice right now is to use them. Unlike the various event tokens, there is something to spend them on already in place, the 2000 dilithium ore per voucher purchase. Just to be safe, you'll probably want to buy those with your extra vouchers.
Like me... but actually not like me... Its still hypocritical.
Kudos to Cryptic for making a hard call, and on balance - doing the right thing. I won't lose anything by this or gain anything. Any spare event tokens I have dumped in the past - any incomplete event projects, I've cancelled if I can't finish them. Those choices were my own.
Can't fault Cryptic on this 😊
6th June can get back to collecting vouchers towards the free ship. The mine console looks fun. Either way, I'll be taking part.
And the mechanics behind it are that the system can tell who has those projects actively slotted right now. The system does NOT know what your intentions were as it is not all knowing. If you didn't have a project slotted, then all you're getting is your inventory slots back.
So stop calling people who couldn't finish it lazy. And stop calling hypocracy if you're the one who decided to just stockpile without slotting projects and expect to be rewarded for hoarding. How does the system know what to give you if you don't have a project slotted? You expecting them to just GIVE you everything just because you decided to hoard the tokens for a rainy day?
Let it go dude. You're derailing the thread with your ranting.
What an utterly absurd argument. I lose the tokens, get inventory space and should be grateful for that?
You just dont get it, do you?
Players slotted at least one token -> full reward
Players have at least one token in inventory -> no reward
Thats by definition hypocrisy!
And there it is. The "you just want handouts" argument.
You make only absurd claims to justify this TRIBBLE. Dont project your ignorance onto me. I dont have to take this TRIBBLE from anyone.
I say it as many times as it needs to be said:
All they have to do is place an NPC somewhere where we can just convert our old tokens into something useful. Drozana station already has some of them. How hard can it be to add another TEMPORARILY?
Please explain: what is good about removing items from some players without compensation? E.g. Why not give in return, the value in dilithium, players otherwise would have gotten? Why no empathy towards people who are negatively affected?
That is, of course, your opinion and you have every right to it. I apologize, that you find the word "hoarding" so offensive. Is "stockpiling" more to your liking? Perhaps, "saving" or "collecting" works better for you?
Such hyperbole.
Reputation projects are always there to be run whenever the player wants. Limited-time eventsprojects are by their very definition only available for a limited time. So, the comparison isn't really valid. My question would be: why WOULDN'T you slot it while you can? And why accumulate (not hoard, of course, because that might be offensive) event tokens to take up valuable inventory space, and not allocate them immediately towards the project that's being worked on? It would seem an incredible waste of time otherwise.
This is not hypocrisy. I don't think you know what that means. But yes, it is insulting to accuse someone of such. Regardless, you're not listening. Tokens, no tokens is irrelevant. The slotting of the project is the determining factor on who gets what.
How in the world can offering condolences be considered an insult? Also, did you just gloss over the part where I stated that even I have tokens saved (not hoarded, of course, can't say hoarded) that I will also be losing? Yeah, it does suck to lose them, but punished? That sounds a bit extreme. If you really feel that way, I don't know what to say to that. But just to point out... ummm... it's not MY game.
Look, I understand that you're upset here, but you're going overboard about it, and continuing to flame and insult others is just not going to end well for you.
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Please consider some people are not native English speaking (actually a lot of people). Hence discussing if correct words are used, or writings are well phrased, is distracting from the main point, which is: some people will loose items without any compensation. That could be handle better by Cryptic. For example compensate for each deleted item an amount of dilli.
Please consider that I have considered that, and that is exactly why I'm pointing it out, since it is indeed insulting and he doesn't seem to understand that. You are correct, though. Unfortunately, some people, including myself, will lose something without compensation. Could it have been handled differently? Yes. Better? That's debatable.
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First part: could be a technical issue in determining exactly how much to give. Therefor its not an easy solution and, like the Foundry, one they had tried to find a solution that ultimately was limited by available tech like the game engine or pieces of code. Therefor entirely possible that it was out of their hands.
Second part: I have empathy. Its also one of the reasons why I feel STO does things better than most MMOs, in being more generous with the events and allowing for alternate means of getting things later on down the road or even a means of buying it out in cases of emergency rather than just saying "Sorry Out of Luck" if you miss even one day. Its just that the Empathy ends when accusations of malpractice or malice are used as a reason to launch attacks.
You keep ignoring one key element.
ACTUALLY HAVING THE PROJECT SLOTTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
The system cannot give you anything if you don't have something to flag that particular item as in progress, IE the project to actually get said item.
Just having the currency isn't enough. You must have had the project slotted. You could have enough tokens to get two rewards from Crystalline... but the server doesn't know what you want as we have had several Crystalline events. Do you want the shard pet or the Antiproton torpedo? It doesn't know without the project slotted.
Just having the tokens does not entitle you to anything without the appropriate project in progress.
I answered that. I collected enough for one project, did the project and then repeated the process. Not everyone likes to look at partially filled projects. Personally it irritates me.
Call it what you will. You give one group the full reward and the other identical group nothing.
Dont play the innocent. You have done much worse to me in the last weeks for no appearent reason up to threatening me and abused your moderator powers repeatedly.
Which is exactly the problem!! How many times do I have to explain this injustice??
Player one has at least one token slotted and gets the full reward.
Player two has at least one token in the inventory and gets nothing.
Instead of pushing the devs to reconsider so everyone gets the proper reward you just shrug it off with "It's not a kick to anything". But it is.
Because you are patronizing, condescending, sarcastic about a serious topic and threatened me which makes me doubt that you are sincere when offering it.
Where did I what over what you said where?
If I dont get the same reward like others with the same amount of time spent for an event than thats being punished.
And we are back to the twisting of my words and threats. Its only insulting and flaming when other than you does it, right? But I have to take it from you??
You keep repeating the problem but you arent interested in a solution. I offered a solution but you keep ignoring it.
What you never could do is slot a project after the event has ended. So it makes absolutely no sense to stockpile all your tokens only to then slot and complete the project. What if you get 13 of them and then you're hospitalized without slotting the project? That would be a huge mistake. This also doesn't line up with your concerns about stockpiling more tokens for future events that you (presumably) wouldn't even be able to slot if you miss them.
Also, we have plenty of event slots and with account unlocks you can have so many slots across multiple characters that arguing about "limited" slots is vapid and meaningless.
Cryptic really needs to consider what allowing TFO token stockpiling from CC will mean for future events. CC is so easy and fast to complete (compared to other events) that people will easily be able to stockpile 100+ tokens for use on future less desirable events (Mirror & Breach). Therefore IMO tokens acquired during this event should only be usable on this event's project.
Think about it, in the past if YOU could have stockpiled Crystalline shards to use on Breach and Mirror, would you have stockpiled them? ABSOLUTELY.
- slot it instantly
- slot it when all requirements are met
Why is either wrong/right or one more right than the other? According to who?
It totally makes sense to keep those projects slotted for years... without actually knowing if they ever return... Especially for players who havent played the full last years and considering the many events that didnt return in forseeable time.
What if the apocalypse starts tomorrow?? And you accuse me of mental gymnastics?!
Im talking about past tokens, not about future tokens. The blog implies there will be changes to tokens for future events which I didnt adress anywhere.
Those items are character bound which means not tradable or movable to other characters. And you are limited to five event slots per character. So account unlocks and items on other characters with no old tokens are irrelevant.
It is highly unlikely that the STO developers cannot create batch-job that compensates all players for removed items, e.g. in the form of dilithium.
There arr far more complex algorithms, database queries and coding then that in STO.
And even if it would not be possible, as you claim, to simply replace items via an automated algorithm, then they still could adapt the existing exchange functionality (like e.g. latinum exchange) so players can manually exchange the obsoleted items for dilithium themselves instead of just deleting them.
Comparing the coding required for this, with the complexity of the Foundry coding, as you do, is not realistic.
We're not coders. So why does everyone act like they are? I cited the Foundry due to the fact it is a recent thing that they TRIED to solve with no success. We don't know how long they've worked on this thing either, let alone if they could find a solution or not. I provided one possible theory. Nothing more. I don't claim to know how the game is coded and if something is absolutely possible or not.
As for the dilithium... it could also be an economy thing.
Fact of the matter is we don't know all the variables.
See above portion on why you should immediately slot a project.
I'm also talking about past tokens and the idea of stockpiling them for future events. Truth is sometimes the investments that you make don't work out.
Older event items were character unlocks but have shifted over to account unlocks in recent times. Therefore, any concern over the number of slots is irrelevant.
There's actually only 5 event slots. What they are doing is actually not just autocompleting partially completed projects, but also any of the projects from events they listed, even if they have no tokens in them.
The projects are "available for a limited time" in the sense that they are available to slot during the event period. Once the event period is up, you're out of luck if you didn't slot it.
So, don't put anything into the project until you have enough tokens for the next go around?
Which is exactly the problem!! How many times do I have to explain this injustice??
Player one has at least one token slotted and gets the full reward.
Player two has at least one token in the inventory and gets nothing.
Instead of pushing the devs to reconsider so everyone gets the proper reward you just shrug it off with "It's not a kick to anything". But it is. [/quote]
Actually, there are a few cases that will apply here.
1) Players who have tokens, but no slotted projects obviously will get nothing.
2) Players who have no tokens, but slotted projects (but not partially completed) will have those projects completed.
3) Players whom have no tokens and partially completed projects will have those projects completed.
The people whom lose out are the ones whom have no slotted projects.
To gloss over means to ignore what he was saying about him losing out since he has accumulated tokens he has not turned in.
There's a clear difference though between someone like you decided not to slot a project because as you said, incomplete projects irritate you, and people who did slot a project.
People who slotted projects but either left them incomplete or simply started them without inputting anything (like for example they had a previous project completed and didn't have time to do the new one) are still gonna get their time rewarded.
In my opinion, Cryptic is making amends for people whom won't be able to get the tokens anymore. I don't think they can be at fault for people deciding to keep their tokens for the next round, considering that they did offer a bonus project.
If people get the full reward soon for having started a very old project without adding any tokens then its not "available for a limited time". They got around it by starting the project! Full reward for no time investment at all! This is borderline exploiting and they are rewarding players for it!
Its just the way I do it. I start an event, gather the tokens and hand them in all at once. After that I can turn in one token at a time.
What exactly is a "partially completed project" compared to a "partually slotted project"?
Thats what Ive been saying this whole time. Its a giant middle finger for those that spent time on events unlike those that just started the project but never added any tokens.
Unfortunately my dictionary doesnt agree. But I understand the meaning. I tried to find his comment where he said something him having and losing tokens but I couldnt find it.
There is a clear difference between someone getting the full reward for no tokens and someone getting no reward for having tokens. Its irrelevant where the tokens are.
Well, duh. This is the injustice Ive been pointing out which you pointed out several times in a single comment. Yet you dont condemn the injustice.
They are at fault for not rewarding dedicated players because they arent competent enough to figure out a way for players to convert the remaining tokens into a reward. I offered such a solution: an NPC like those on drozana station where you turn in other specific tokens.
You're asking for everything they ever released on the sole case of "I have tokens in my inventory", and citing your own personal preference for not slotting an event project for 14 days after it starts. We don't know which ones you've done. The server doesn't know which ones you've done. The Devs don't know which ones you've done.
No Project, no gubbin. Because that is how the server is figuring out what to give. Give the gubbin that corresponds to the slotted project. Just having the currency alone doesn't entitle you to the gubbin.
Now can you put your pitchfork away now? Pretty sure we've explained it every which way except in Klingon by now, and it is derailing this thread something fierce.
Again... we players don't have access to the data the Devs have that drives decisions.
Well all that would be no problem if players could turn in those tokens for themselves at Drozana (like is done before in other cases) and exchange then for dilithium for example.
Yes, I have tokens I havent slotted and Im frustrated that the devs cant create a system to reward me for it while they reward others with no tokens at all. Its totally my fault that the system is so badly designed and the solution offered by the devs so utterly unjust... /s
Dont you get that you are defending their incompetence??
But having the empty project entitles others to the gubbin. 'facepalms'
Obviously you havent grasped it after so many attempt at all. Your ignorance and the devs lack of empathy is derailing this game.