Outfits. EC only outfits. 1 million EC for a top or bottom, 2 million for a top/bottom set. 3 million for a hat, need to keep that cryptic logic after all.
I agree. Space Barbie for the win here. It's the one and only thing noboy can escape.
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-Extra BOFF costume slots(50,000 for the first, 500,000 for the second, 5,000,000 for 3rd, 50,000,000 for the fourth, etc etc etc)
-Training simulators in the holodeck(each session requires 10mill EC)
-Ship-specific inventory slots(I'm throwing this in there just because I want inactive loadout equipment to drop somewhere other than the main inventory)
-Training simulators in the holodeck(each session requires 10mill EC)
Training sim sounds like a good idea but personally I think the cost is a tad too high, what I'd do is this.
Have it so that you can't change your build while in the sim (maybe even that you can't change gear) and have several different "grades" of sims with various fees attached to them, want to just shoot a stationary target then it's just a token fee, however if you want test things in a realistic scenerio (targets move and fight back) then the fee is much higher, you can even have fee scale according to the difficulty of the scenario.
Also you could use this give players the ability to "test drive" new ships for a large fee obviously.
That way it'll serve the purpose of EC sink without seeming like a punishment for those who don't have much EC for what ever reason (FYI:10 million EC is the cap for "free to play" players who don't have the EC cap extension bought, so you would be asking F2P players to pay their entire wealth per session).
IMO, this idea of adding more EC sinks to the game will not solve the problem with inflation. This has been allowed to happen so long that I don't think there is an equitable solution. As stated by others, it will not really affect the ones who have multi-billion EC accounts.
What gets me about this is why now? If this is meant as a prelude to "indirectly" target the gold sellers, then go after them and stop punishing the entire player base because you want to be "diplomatic" about the whole thing. We have sinks for everything as it is. People just see ways to not use them.
Many people in fleets hoard their EC and Dil because they get no real benefit from donating to fleet projects. 1 FC for a Dil or 1 FC for, I think it is, 100 EC is not what I would call a good way to seperate me from my "currency". I'd give more Fleet Marks, but we have tons of those. Will there be a thread about adding more FM sinks next?
I honestly see no need for another sink... just because!
But, having stated the above, this is where I would start (other posters have already covered at least some of these suggestions)
Add EC cost to costume editing at the Tailor... determined by the amount of changes made to an existing costume.
Add EC cost to the shipyard for damaged ship repairs... determined by severity of damaged systems.
Add EC cost to the infirmary for player injuries... determined by severity of injuries.
Add EC cost as a (posting fee) at the Exchange... 5-10% of the posted price.
Add EC costs for Transwarp (to any location) that scale with character level.
Remove EC as a reward from Admiralty.
All a "posting fee" will do is remove some of the expensive items from the Exchange and those items will be handled by trade again.
If making those changes aren't feasible, then why not add things to the game that we can use EC to purchase with. I am sure there are items in the C- and Dil- Stores that are not selling there, but would do better if those items could be purchased with EC instead.
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Feedback to Bort:
don't create the reason for EC inflation in the first place!
What we need:
1. an EC currency exchange like the zen/dil one but with fixed rates like
100 latinum <> 1 EC
1.000 EC <> 1 mark of choise
10.000 EC <> 1 dil
100.000 EC <> 1 lobi
1.000.000 EC <> 1 zen
2. call in combat support like fleet support (space) or security teams (ground)
100k EC for a <current level +1> command ship/small craft supporting for 30sec with no cooldown
50k EC for a <current level +1> security officer supporting for 30sec with no cooldown
The current fleet support option has a 5min cooldown at best and sec team for tacs on ground is also a 2min cooldown.
"Meaningful, Desirable, Repeatable, and Accessible."
-Ships, gear, clothes, etc are not repeatable (it's impossible to lose them and no spare copies are needed for anything).
-Consumables are not meaningful (as long as all content can be won without using any).
-"Taxing the exchange," or some such mechanic with no return value is not desirable.
-Stuff costing billions is not accessible.
So what would meet all those criteria?
-Ship skilltrees. Repeatable on every ship you own, desireable and meaningful if there's the right stuff in there, an accessible price per node but still a good sink over the whole tree.
-Similar development paths for other things you have multiples of, like boffs.
-Gear and other things that would need spare copies to upgrade or customize. The initial version would have accessible prices but you'd need many to "finish" it.
-Temporary cosmetics. Holo-emitters, auras, whatever. If enough people want them, I don't know.
-Respec tokens or other customization tokens, that are not one-offs but can always use to switch to another configuration.
-Player housing could come with an arbitrarily large number of paid customizations.
-A lockbox-like random drop system that has some rare chance to give a great item.
If you add more things to buy with EC you make EC more desirable to have, giving less to spend on high end exchange stuff making it more exclusive and hence desirable as sellers want money to buy the 'new' desirable stuff. The only way to counter this is to make the stuff being bought for such high amounts more commonly available to reduce prices that way. Having availability of goods a 1/100000 chance is not good if you are hoping it wont be sold for a fortune.
Locking content behind ec's would have folk screaming paywall regardless of how good or bad the training sim.
But maybe take that concept and have an NPC at shipyards who charges a few million ec to let players test fly a store ship in a specific scenario. It might backfire if the ships&loadouts are rubbish but might also encourage the ones on the fence to delve into the ships are content philosophy of the devs.
Hell they could even expand that concept and make it a buy in for a BR mode where you explore a "lost sector" scavenging for parts to make weapons etc. Doing that might also breathe some life into the long forgotten pvp side of the game.
- EC purchase of the low level ships you haven't unlocked (Tier 1-4). Limited to the ones you have accessible from your normal levelling promotions
- WingMan/Security team combat consumable - various sorts, like the Scorpion fighter, Nimbus Pirates, etc
- People would hate it but... 5% commission on Exchange listings/sales
- 500M EC to unlock a new Ship Slot, or 2 DryDock slots. Sinks EC, encourages ship sales and need for traits, gear etc.
- EC cost to upgrade DOff/BOff to next quality level, scaling based on current quality, binds the DOff/Boff
- EC purchase of 1x Admiralty ship cards
- EC cost to run multiple Daily projects for rep (eg. 2 Daily projects simultaneous) - would also speed up that long "Ugh I have new captain and need to grind like a dozen reps!" process
- EC cost for Admiralty Skip tokens, Endeavour reroll tokens, maybe even Elite rep marks (or an EC box that gives randoms of these)
- EC cost to turn certain single-char unlocks (Phoenix ships etc) into an unlock for one other char on account, repeatable
- EC cost to repeat the reward grant for a mission you have already completed... so you don't have to run Boldly They Rode 8x to get the weapons, etc.
I'd like the following being done:
Introduce a way to increase your equipment stats by a minor percentage, that involves a failure state, where you can loose all progress you've made. Other MMOs already do it and it is a nice way to keep the economy in check. The downside ist, that most other MMOs do this with rare ingame resources. EC is a rather common rescource, so this should be too impactfull for most people.
If this is implemented, the whales can brag about having the absolute non plus ultra of gear on their ship and the general public won't really be affected, because that 5% increase in overall power doesn't make much of a difference.
You could even add other ressources, which are rarely used into the mix, to make them more viable again.
In game cosmetics have been the answer for quite a while. It's been proposed before, and it's still the best answer today. It's been asked in the past and ignored, but it's still the best way forward.
It doesn't contribute to power creep, it's fairly easy to add compared to something like designing new ships, and people will pay big to look 'special' or 'cool.' MMO's have been using cosmetic items to balance their economies for years. It's an area that STO has consistently failed to capitalize on.
Never underestimate player desire to show off to other players. Things like unique uniforms, EV Suits, ship skins, weapon skins, special firing effects, unique shield visuals, all these are things people would pay through the nose for.
In game cosmetics have been the answer for quite a while. It's been proposed before, and it's still the best answer today. It's been asked in the past and ignored, but it's still the best way forward.
It doesn't contribute to power creep, it's fairly easy to add compared to something like designing new ships, and people will pay big to look 'special' or 'cool.' MMO's have been using cosmetic items to balance their economies for years. It's an area that STO has consistently failed to capitalize on.
Never underestimate player desire to show off to other players. Things like unique uniforms, EV Suits, ship skins, weapon skins, special firing effects, unique shield visuals, all these are things people would pay through the nose for.
True. But Borticus didn't ask for things some people would "pay through the nose for" once, but something accessible and repeatable.
Repetitive stuff.
Exchange Tax could work. Every transaction also destroys EC then. I bet it would be unpopular though. But it shouldn't change anything fundamental about the nature of the trade, just limit the increase in EC value of items since EC itself is a bit more valuable.
One-Time Use Devices & Consumable Ideas:
Consumables certainly might work, ideally something close to what we already have or had.
One Lockbox introduced one-time useable devices that granted one use of a console. As consolation prizes go, this ranks up with Kits as disappointing and useless. However, turned into a device you can buy for EC and slot maybe a stack of 20 or so on a character, it could be interesting. Some existing items like those Hydrogen Surplus Cells would also be popular.
The new faulty holodisguises could also be fun, though they'll never be big on their own. However, maybe you could use the idea and expand it to disguises or "morphogenetic field kit" that turns a player character into a playable version of some NPCs with their own set of abilities. Might be fun for some to fight across Kobali Prime or the Dyson Zone as a Herald or Breen.
Conversions and Unlocks
An EC Fee to unlock Starship Mastery Traits, Console and Hangar Pets you have unlocked on another character could be popular. Make it a bit more expensive for traits and consoles of Lobi/Lockbox/Promo ship
Also, a Mark Conversion system. Say a Reputation Project that turns 125 Marks and 100.000 EC of one kind into a mark choice box. And another project that turns 25 Marks, 1 Elite Mark and 5000.000 EC into a Elite Mark choice box.
A conversion of Lobi into Dilithium or vice versa, for a hefty fee. Could be done as a DOFF assignment perhaps to control frequency.
Something to rebox a Lockbox/Promo/Lobi/Event ship into an account-bound box that can be used on another account.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Repetitive stuff.
Exchange Tax could work. Every transaction also destroys EC then. I bet it would be unpopular though. But it shouldn't change anything fundamental about the nature of the trade, just limit the increase in EC value of items since EC itself is a bit more valuable.
It would make everything of real value disappear into the trading channels again, and leave the exchange for the peanuts.
"Brainstorm with me! If we wanted to reduce EC inflation in STO, the game needs sinks for that currency which are Meaningful, Desirable, Repeatable, and Accessible. What ideas do you have that might meet all 3 of those?"
As several people have pointed out, all the key currencies are connected and convertible. You cannot make adjustments to one without looking comprehensively at all the currencies.
1. Why do we need to reduce EC inflation? What is the problem HE'S trying to solve (we all can think of many problems, but he obviously has a specific problem he's trying to address). Any solution or recommendation we make to identify EC sinks may or may not actually address the underlying problem of that arises from EC inflation. For example. if the problem is that there are a lot of players who have billions of EC with nothing on which to spend it, that's a radically different problem from newer/poorer players being priced out of various markets.
It's notable that the last Phoenix box event did not drop the dil/zen prices significantly, as they had in the past. I'd argue that part of the problem was also having c-store sales that pushed supply and demand for Zen and dil in opposing directions that mostly cancelled each other out, keeping the dil/zen ratio above 310.
3. This a classic problem that ALL central banks around the world deal with regularly. The M1 monetary supply is managed across the world by making money more or less "expensive" to put it into circulation (spend it or lend it) or take it out (save it). Unlike central banks, there is not price (interest rate) on EC. STO Monetary Policy to govern the supply of EC in the STO intergalatic economy will have positive or negative impacts on not only prices (as the original question poses), but also labor (how players allocate time for rewards) and Cryptic profitability (since dil/zen/EC/Lobi are inextricably linked).
3. Since we don't have actual "economic" data (that Cryptic absolutely does) regarding numbers of players, actual amount of EC and other currencies in the economy, average costs, and such, any recommendation needs to be limited and easily reversible, otherwise, they run the risk of imploding the entire player base and economy - which will TRIBBLE people off. The intervention needs to be limited and done in a step-wise fashion so that the impact can be monitored and shutdown if necessary.
My recommendation (without much more information than I currently have) and need to be done in conjunction with each other and data needs to be captured and analyzed as things are happening:
a) slightly increase the drop rates on ships from lockboxes. Not only would it likely increase purchase of keys (and purchase of zen for real money) as people would feel like they had a chance to win a ship (vs. simply spending EC to buy the ship they want on the exchange at an inflated price), but it would also increase the supply of highly sought ships and lower their price.
b) Cryptic should become a seller on the exchange, like Amazon does. As a supplier on the exchange, they can control the price of items by setting prices on merchandise. Right now, individual players try to optimize profit (because they want to buy stuff). However, if Cryptic made some items available at EDLP when prices get out of hand, all other items would have to be priced at or below the Cryptic price to sell (or at least until Cryptic sells out). Since a player won't know when, what, or how many Cryptic might sell, buyers and sellers will have to discount or pay premiums or get priced out.
c) Cryptic should consider selling some of the most highly sought ships (bug ship with CRF trait) on the exchange directly to drain EC. Prices would come down as supply went up. Of course, this would impact lockbox and research box sales in the c-store, so without data it's impossible to know for certain what the BE point would be - but, that's simple financial modeling that any competent person with data and Excel could do easily. Pointedly, since such an intervention can be done one-off (and in theory anonymously since a dev's alt could be the "seller" in-game and no one would ever know. If the impact on c-store sales passes key thresholds, then you simply stop selling ships. There IS data on averages c-store sales and such, as well as the dates of all zen, key, and other sales, to model this type of thing - there has to be.
d) Reduce the trade-in value for dropped items at endgame. Newer players and alts need EC to gear up early, but at endgame, it's not as necessary and simply contributes to EC supply. Six runs of Argala patrol to level mastery and picking up all the drops is a lot of EC.
my thought: some form of customizable personal housing. based around small cheap changes from a base model. like say 50k ec to make some of consoles in this room to be Elachi styled or 200k to make the EPS conduits on this deck/section/whatever assimilated.
other idea boff trait revamp letting us change their traits like we can our own. go ahead and split the space ground traits while your at it, it be power creep which I'm normally against but the boost to space barbie would be worth it. give just enough basic weak traits to fill any gaps plus what the boff would normally have. charge a small fee to add a new trait to the list via a *insert scifi ish named token*. with a small fee for a boff to set up a *insert scifi ish named token*. bar only android/assimilated/photonic traits. vary the cost for rarer and other racial trait but don't stop someone from say buying a bunch of romulans from their fleet then training their whole crew as SROs.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
> > Right now the game has five currency types: > > * Dilithium: Rewards time spent playing non-specific content, and is caped.
Yeah... no it doesn’t. The people with lots of dil get it by cycling through alts doing admiralty and such. There’s no real connection between rewards and actual play time.
EC? EC is made in bulk on the exchange. Endeavours have helped a little but there’s still a massive gap between traders and players.
Pure combat consumables haven't been successful in the past, but themed and cosmetic consumables might be.
My captains all have a theme combining visuals and weapons. My captain using Tholian gear would buy stacks of Tholian ground device consumables if they cost EC instead of marks and dil even if they were not the best choice for combat.
What about themed holographic combat ground pets? Summon an extra Jem'Hadar soldier, a Tholian Ensign, devices from every race and era, ... ?
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,674Community Moderator
edited May 2019
I don't know about the consumable stuff honestly. I know I avoid them because of the fact you have to try and keep a supply when they burn out. Only consumables I keep a supply of are regenerators, Components, and Large Hypos, because they have a practical use. I typically don't get any other consumables because I either don't have the room to slot the associated power, or I feel I have no use for it.
And a cosmetic consumable... as a costume fiend I like having options. A temporary one doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Hell... I'd love to get the reprogrammed Tholian Drones for my Drone Master, but the resoruce cost for a CONSUMABLE device is outrageous. If it was a kit module I'd get it.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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EC is made when it awarded to a player for completing content, admiralty, a doff mission or an endeavor, or when they sell or recycle an item.
The life cycle of EC looks something like this:
EC is created when Player A sells doped loot to an NPC.
EC is moved when Player A buys a key on the exchange from Player B.
EC is destroyed when Player B fills up some fleet and rep projects that require EC.
Some people dont interact much with others or use the exchange, so the life cycle of some EC they use might instead look like this:
EC is created when Player A sells doped loot to an NPC.
EC is destroyed when Player A buys some large hypos from an NPC.
Now the amount of excess EC in the account of some one who dos not use the exchange doesn't matter at all. To contribute to inflation money has to be in circulation.
One way to hit inflation would be to simply cut off its sources. If no new EC were generated then over time, as accounts become inactive, the amount of EC in circulation would decrease. This would seriously hurt new players however, who's only means to obtain EC would be to buy things with zen and dill (Old players are not going to want anything in the loot table.) to sell to old players.
I know I shouldn't speak for others, but I don't think most of us want to hamstring new players. So instead of tackling the EC faucets we are focused on tackling the sinks, and providing sinks of a sort that drain EC from the space rich, rather then inhibiting the growth of the newbies.
The broker fee on the exchange used by other games, and proposed by others in this thread might be a good way to drain EC on a continual basis. I do like this solution.
I also think, like others, that space barbie is a very acceptable EC sink. But we need a form of space barbie that doesn't tie up an artist every time sales dry up. Maybe it would be better to introduce a new space barbie system, rather then just adding items to the existing tailor.
I can think of two things people have been asking for for a very long time, the introduction of which would create a positive impression on the community, and could be paid for with EC.
A system to make one weapon effect look like another. This was apparently Vetoed by CBS when STO was new, but so was an end game Connie so I don't see why it should be off the table now. If weapons could be 'glamoured' on an individual basses by consuming EC I know a lot of people would do this, and then they would do it again when ever they replaced a weapon.
A system to make one ship look like another. Ordinarily I wouldn't suggest this, as I would assume that the STO team would not have any one on staff capable of implementing the system. However they recently made ships playable at lower levels so maybe there is some one with the know how after all. If i could make my Chimesh look like a Defiant, I would do so. If i could make my Eternal look like a Wells I would do so, and if people could make a t6 anything look like a Nova I know a forum thread that would finally die. I would probably be prepared to put down 100mill EC per ship to glamour them.
Repetitive stuff.
Exchange Tax could work. Every transaction also destroys EC then. I bet it would be unpopular though. But it shouldn't change anything fundamental about the nature of the trade, just limit the increase in EC value of items since EC itself is a bit more valuable.
It would make everything of real value disappear into the trading channels again, and leave the exchange for the peanuts.
Ah. that would indeed be a problem, unless they remove or limit or tax the direct player trade. Good point however.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Well one of the biggest problems with EC inflation is that its been inflating for like 7 years or so, ever since the first lockbox ever came out and its items were sellable on the exchange. The people Space Rich in the game have so much EC that without a significant rework of the currency I think its physically impossible to stop inflation entirely.
one thing that might help is... simply make lockbox ships a more common reward. Back in the days with the Acheros and Vonph were very common rewards those were extremely cheap ec wise on the exchange compared to other lockbox ships. If everything is more common, everything is cheaper. Its hard for lockbox people to advertise selling a ship for 600mil ec when you could potentially pay only 300 mil and have a great chance of getting the ship yourself from the keys you bought.
In short, we can't do much about the rich people having so much money that the economy only perpetuates their value, but we can do something like increase the quantity of items people recieve because when things were very common they were very cheap.
Brainstorm with me! If we wanted to reduce EC inflation in STO, the game needs sinks for that currency which are Meaningful, Desirable, Repeatable, and Accessible. What ideas do you have that might meet all 3 of those?
I don't tweet, so I thought I would respond hear, and give others the opportunity to chip in too.
Right now the game has five currency types:
Dilithium: Rewards time spent playing non-specific content, and is caped.
Energy Credits: Rewards time spent playing non-specific content, and are not caped.
Zen: Rewards contributing to the maintenance and development of the game.
Marks: Reward time spent playing specific content, and are not caped.
Lobi: Rewards repeated failure and frustration.
Four of these currencies can be used to acquire 'end game' equipment in a manner which leads to the consumption of the currency. Energy Credits are different, in that when we use them to obtain 'end game' equipment we trade them to another player, so the energy credits traded persist and we get inflation.
To address this inflation we could just have another tax in the form of a rep/fleet project bar to fill up. But no one likes tax, and with the continue event cycle causing us to play STO like a job instead of a game already, I don't think it will have a positive impact on the playbase. It also wont be as effective as it was in the past, given that it must now also counter the influx of extra EC we are all making through personal endeavors.
We could also have an NPC sell us something for a lot of EC that we will all want.
If its a consumable of some kind then it could continue to do its job of countering inflation into the future which is grate. BUT a consumable brings a couple of problems. If its a consumable that doesn't have a large effect, then we won't buy it and it wont work. If it has a large effect then it will contribute to power creep(unless its cosmetic, like a holo emitter). On the other hand if its a consumable that is required for some reason, such as making imposible content possible, then people will either not run said content, or feel that its just another tax.
If its a non consumable then it has to be able to compete with the 'end game' gear we already have access to from the other currencies, and won't continue to act as a sink perpetually as a consumable would. However I think people would probably react a lot more positively to it.
Personally I would like to see something that encourages the flow of EC from old timers like myself, to newbies. I don't just want my EC to be worth more. I want a reason to trade it to new players who need more. So my suggestion would be to add something to the loot table, that drops rarly, and can be used along with EC to obtain something else.
Newbies spend more time actively playing the game then I do these days. Its still new and fresh for them, so they don't just log in to do dailies. Spending more time playing, means they have more time to get drops then I do. So if i want some new shiny thing I might go to the exchange and buy the drop from them. Then turn it into whatever the shiny thing I want is, at the NPC.
The idea is that with a two step system (trade EC on exchange, then spend EC and Drop at NPC) we both remove excess EC from the economy, and encourage the movement of EC within the economy, which is also important.
The one downside to the drop system is that although I don't play as much, I can get the same number of loot drops a newbie might get in an hour by spending ten minutes in the right place putting out massive DPS. So to make this work and stop me doing that there would need to be some sort of per player(player not character. Oldies like me have many many character slots) drop limit... one per hours max or something like that.
Your problem is that EC is a bottomless fiat currency based on nothing, that continually replenishes and stores up.
Inflation ends up being inevitable, and adding more sinks is just kicking the problem down the road a piece to be worse later.
The solution isn't even mechanically possible in game, either-it would require a massive rework and would make lots of people sad no matter what you do.
but here's a pull at a 'brainstorm' for it.
Make Commodities Necessary.
specifically food and drink. If a character doesn't eat something, (use a food item and drink item) a set number of times (on a timer) while active, the character starts taking damage/has stat deficits imposed, they get weaker, until they start taking level damage and losing stats both on ground and in space.
eating regularly replenishes those skills, traits, and stats, and food items are only available through EC purchase.
now you have a repeating 'sump' for EC to act as a lever on the inflation, while opening a market for 'stat boosting' consumable foods for sale at vendors in social zones to get a temporary edge for the duration of, for example, a few hours of play at a higher cost.
I've played Survival Games and I do not want to experience this in STO.
Comments
I agree. Space Barbie for the win here. It's the one and only thing noboy can escape.
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-Extra BOFF costume slots(50,000 for the first, 500,000 for the second, 5,000,000 for 3rd, 50,000,000 for the fourth, etc etc etc)
-Training simulators in the holodeck(each session requires 10mill EC)
-Ship-specific inventory slots(I'm throwing this in there just because I want inactive loadout equipment to drop somewhere other than the main inventory)
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Have it so that you can't change your build while in the sim (maybe even that you can't change gear) and have several different "grades" of sims with various fees attached to them, want to just shoot a stationary target then it's just a token fee, however if you want test things in a realistic scenerio (targets move and fight back) then the fee is much higher, you can even have fee scale according to the difficulty of the scenario.
Also you could use this give players the ability to "test drive" new ships for a large fee obviously.
That way it'll serve the purpose of EC sink without seeming like a punishment for those who don't have much EC for what ever reason (FYI:10 million EC is the cap for "free to play" players who don't have the EC cap extension bought, so you would be asking F2P players to pay their entire wealth per session).
What gets me about this is why now? If this is meant as a prelude to "indirectly" target the gold sellers, then go after them and stop punishing the entire player base because you want to be "diplomatic" about the whole thing. We have sinks for everything as it is. People just see ways to not use them.
Many people in fleets hoard their EC and Dil because they get no real benefit from donating to fleet projects. 1 FC for a Dil or 1 FC for, I think it is, 100 EC is not what I would call a good way to seperate me from my "currency". I'd give more Fleet Marks, but we have tons of those. Will there be a thread about adding more FM sinks next?
I honestly see no need for another sink... just because!
But, having stated the above, this is where I would start (other posters have already covered at least some of these suggestions)
Add EC cost to costume editing at the Tailor... determined by the amount of changes made to an existing costume.
Add EC cost to the shipyard for damaged ship repairs... determined by severity of damaged systems.
Add EC cost to the infirmary for player injuries... determined by severity of injuries.
Add EC cost as a (posting fee) at the Exchange... 5-10% of the posted price.
Add EC costs for Transwarp (to any location) that scale with character level.
Remove EC as a reward from Admiralty.
All a "posting fee" will do is remove some of the expensive items from the Exchange and those items will be handled by trade again.
If making those changes aren't feasible, then why not add things to the game that we can use EC to purchase with. I am sure there are items in the C- and Dil- Stores that are not selling there, but would do better if those items could be purchased with EC instead.
Join Date: Tuesday, February 2, 2010
don't create the reason for EC inflation in the first place!
What we need:
1. an EC currency exchange like the zen/dil one but with fixed rates like
100 latinum <> 1 EC
1.000 EC <> 1 mark of choise
10.000 EC <> 1 dil
100.000 EC <> 1 lobi
1.000.000 EC <> 1 zen
2. call in combat support like fleet support (space) or security teams (ground)
100k EC for a <current level +1> command ship/small craft supporting for 30sec with no cooldown
50k EC for a <current level +1> security officer supporting for 30sec with no cooldown
The current fleet support option has a 5min cooldown at best and sec team for tacs on ground is also a 2min cooldown.
-Ships, gear, clothes, etc are not repeatable (it's impossible to lose them and no spare copies are needed for anything).
-Consumables are not meaningful (as long as all content can be won without using any).
-"Taxing the exchange," or some such mechanic with no return value is not desirable.
-Stuff costing billions is not accessible.
So what would meet all those criteria?
-Ship skilltrees. Repeatable on every ship you own, desireable and meaningful if there's the right stuff in there, an accessible price per node but still a good sink over the whole tree.
-Similar development paths for other things you have multiples of, like boffs.
-Gear and other things that would need spare copies to upgrade or customize. The initial version would have accessible prices but you'd need many to "finish" it.
-Temporary cosmetics. Holo-emitters, auras, whatever. If enough people want them, I don't know.
-Respec tokens or other customization tokens, that are not one-offs but can always use to switch to another configuration.
-Player housing could come with an arbitrarily large number of paid customizations.
-A lockbox-like random drop system that has some rare chance to give a great item.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
But maybe take that concept and have an NPC at shipyards who charges a few million ec to let players test fly a store ship in a specific scenario. It might backfire if the ships&loadouts are rubbish but might also encourage the ones on the fence to delve into the ships are content philosophy of the devs.
Hell they could even expand that concept and make it a buy in for a BR mode where you explore a "lost sector" scavenging for parts to make weapons etc. Doing that might also breathe some life into the long forgotten pvp side of the game.
This used to be in-game, but it was removed long ago.
Then you could sit back and watch people go broke.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
- WingMan/Security team combat consumable - various sorts, like the Scorpion fighter, Nimbus Pirates, etc
- People would hate it but... 5% commission on Exchange listings/sales
- 500M EC to unlock a new Ship Slot, or 2 DryDock slots. Sinks EC, encourages ship sales and need for traits, gear etc.
- EC cost to upgrade DOff/BOff to next quality level, scaling based on current quality, binds the DOff/Boff
- EC purchase of 1x Admiralty ship cards
- EC cost to run multiple Daily projects for rep (eg. 2 Daily projects simultaneous) - would also speed up that long "Ugh I have new captain and need to grind like a dozen reps!" process
- EC cost for Admiralty Skip tokens, Endeavour reroll tokens, maybe even Elite rep marks (or an EC box that gives randoms of these)
- EC cost to turn certain single-char unlocks (Phoenix ships etc) into an unlock for one other char on account, repeatable
- EC cost to repeat the reward grant for a mission you have already completed... so you don't have to run Boldly They Rode 8x to get the weapons, etc.
Introduce a way to increase your equipment stats by a minor percentage, that involves a failure state, where you can loose all progress you've made. Other MMOs already do it and it is a nice way to keep the economy in check. The downside ist, that most other MMOs do this with rare ingame resources. EC is a rather common rescource, so this should be too impactfull for most people.
If this is implemented, the whales can brag about having the absolute non plus ultra of gear on their ship and the general public won't really be affected, because that 5% increase in overall power doesn't make much of a difference.
You could even add other ressources, which are rarely used into the mix, to make them more viable again.
It doesn't contribute to power creep, it's fairly easy to add compared to something like designing new ships, and people will pay big to look 'special' or 'cool.' MMO's have been using cosmetic items to balance their economies for years. It's an area that STO has consistently failed to capitalize on.
Never underestimate player desire to show off to other players. Things like unique uniforms, EV Suits, ship skins, weapon skins, special firing effects, unique shield visuals, all these are things people would pay through the nose for.
Exchange Tax could work. Every transaction also destroys EC then. I bet it would be unpopular though. But it shouldn't change anything fundamental about the nature of the trade, just limit the increase in EC value of items since EC itself is a bit more valuable.
One-Time Use Devices & Consumable Ideas:
Consumables certainly might work, ideally something close to what we already have or had.
Conversions and Unlocks
As several people have pointed out, all the key currencies are connected and convertible. You cannot make adjustments to one without looking comprehensively at all the currencies.
1. Why do we need to reduce EC inflation? What is the problem HE'S trying to solve (we all can think of many problems, but he obviously has a specific problem he's trying to address). Any solution or recommendation we make to identify EC sinks may or may not actually address the underlying problem of that arises from EC inflation. For example. if the problem is that there are a lot of players who have billions of EC with nothing on which to spend it, that's a radically different problem from newer/poorer players being priced out of various markets.
It's notable that the last Phoenix box event did not drop the dil/zen prices significantly, as they had in the past. I'd argue that part of the problem was also having c-store sales that pushed supply and demand for Zen and dil in opposing directions that mostly cancelled each other out, keeping the dil/zen ratio above 310.
3. This a classic problem that ALL central banks around the world deal with regularly. The M1 monetary supply is managed across the world by making money more or less "expensive" to put it into circulation (spend it or lend it) or take it out (save it). Unlike central banks, there is not price (interest rate) on EC. STO Monetary Policy to govern the supply of EC in the STO intergalatic economy will have positive or negative impacts on not only prices (as the original question poses), but also labor (how players allocate time for rewards) and Cryptic profitability (since dil/zen/EC/Lobi are inextricably linked).
3. Since we don't have actual "economic" data (that Cryptic absolutely does) regarding numbers of players, actual amount of EC and other currencies in the economy, average costs, and such, any recommendation needs to be limited and easily reversible, otherwise, they run the risk of imploding the entire player base and economy - which will TRIBBLE people off. The intervention needs to be limited and done in a step-wise fashion so that the impact can be monitored and shutdown if necessary.
My recommendation (without much more information than I currently have) and need to be done in conjunction with each other and data needs to be captured and analyzed as things are happening:
a) slightly increase the drop rates on ships from lockboxes. Not only would it likely increase purchase of keys (and purchase of zen for real money) as people would feel like they had a chance to win a ship (vs. simply spending EC to buy the ship they want on the exchange at an inflated price), but it would also increase the supply of highly sought ships and lower their price.
b) Cryptic should become a seller on the exchange, like Amazon does. As a supplier on the exchange, they can control the price of items by setting prices on merchandise. Right now, individual players try to optimize profit (because they want to buy stuff). However, if Cryptic made some items available at EDLP when prices get out of hand, all other items would have to be priced at or below the Cryptic price to sell (or at least until Cryptic sells out). Since a player won't know when, what, or how many Cryptic might sell, buyers and sellers will have to discount or pay premiums or get priced out.
c) Cryptic should consider selling some of the most highly sought ships (bug ship with CRF trait) on the exchange directly to drain EC. Prices would come down as supply went up. Of course, this would impact lockbox and research box sales in the c-store, so without data it's impossible to know for certain what the BE point would be - but, that's simple financial modeling that any competent person with data and Excel could do easily. Pointedly, since such an intervention can be done one-off (and in theory anonymously since a dev's alt could be the "seller" in-game and no one would ever know. If the impact on c-store sales passes key thresholds, then you simply stop selling ships. There IS data on averages c-store sales and such, as well as the dates of all zen, key, and other sales, to model this type of thing - there has to be.
d) Reduce the trade-in value for dropped items at endgame. Newer players and alts need EC to gear up early, but at endgame, it's not as necessary and simply contributes to EC supply. Six runs of Argala patrol to level mastery and picking up all the drops is a lot of EC.
other idea boff trait revamp letting us change their traits like we can our own. go ahead and split the space ground traits while your at it, it be power creep which I'm normally against but the boost to space barbie would be worth it. give just enough basic weak traits to fill any gaps plus what the boff would normally have. charge a small fee to add a new trait to the list via a *insert scifi ish named token*. with a small fee for a boff to set up a *insert scifi ish named token*. bar only android/assimilated/photonic traits. vary the cost for rarer and other racial trait but don't stop someone from say buying a bunch of romulans from their fleet then training their whole crew as SROs.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
> So Bort has been tweeting:
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> Right now the game has five currency types:
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> * Dilithium: Rewards time spent playing non-specific content, and is caped.
Yeah... no it doesn’t. The people with lots of dil get it by cycling through alts doing admiralty and such. There’s no real connection between rewards and actual play time.
EC? EC is made in bulk on the exchange. Endeavours have helped a little but there’s still a massive gap between traders and players.
My captains all have a theme combining visuals and weapons. My captain using Tholian gear would buy stacks of Tholian ground device consumables if they cost EC instead of marks and dil even if they were not the best choice for combat.
What about themed holographic combat ground pets? Summon an extra Jem'Hadar soldier, a Tholian Ensign, devices from every race and era, ... ?
And a cosmetic consumable... as a costume fiend I like having options. A temporary one doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Hell... I'd love to get the reprogrammed Tholian Drones for my Drone Master, but the resoruce cost for a CONSUMABLE device is outrageous. If it was a kit module I'd get it.
ECs are not "made in bulk", you're just getting them from another player. So you're not generating it, you're just trading for it.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
No it is moved on the exchange. Not made there.
EC is made when it awarded to a player for completing content, admiralty, a doff mission or an endeavor, or when they sell or recycle an item.
The life cycle of EC looks something like this:
Some people dont interact much with others or use the exchange, so the life cycle of some EC they use might instead look like this:
Now the amount of excess EC in the account of some one who dos not use the exchange doesn't matter at all. To contribute to inflation money has to be in circulation.
One way to hit inflation would be to simply cut off its sources. If no new EC were generated then over time, as accounts become inactive, the amount of EC in circulation would decrease. This would seriously hurt new players however, who's only means to obtain EC would be to buy things with zen and dill (Old players are not going to want anything in the loot table.) to sell to old players.
I know I shouldn't speak for others, but I don't think most of us want to hamstring new players. So instead of tackling the EC faucets we are focused on tackling the sinks, and providing sinks of a sort that drain EC from the space rich, rather then inhibiting the growth of the newbies.
The broker fee on the exchange used by other games, and proposed by others in this thread might be a good way to drain EC on a continual basis. I do like this solution.
I also think, like others, that space barbie is a very acceptable EC sink. But we need a form of space barbie that doesn't tie up an artist every time sales dry up. Maybe it would be better to introduce a new space barbie system, rather then just adding items to the existing tailor.
I can think of two things people have been asking for for a very long time, the introduction of which would create a positive impression on the community, and could be paid for with EC.
Ah. that would indeed be a problem, unless they remove or limit or tax the direct player trade. Good point however.
one thing that might help is... simply make lockbox ships a more common reward. Back in the days with the Acheros and Vonph were very common rewards those were extremely cheap ec wise on the exchange compared to other lockbox ships. If everything is more common, everything is cheaper. Its hard for lockbox people to advertise selling a ship for 600mil ec when you could potentially pay only 300 mil and have a great chance of getting the ship yourself from the keys you bought.
In short, we can't do much about the rich people having so much money that the economy only perpetuates their value, but we can do something like increase the quantity of items people recieve because when things were very common they were very cheap.
I've played Survival Games and I do not want to experience this in STO.
I don't care for survival games.
I don't think skins to make one ship look like another would work either.