With regard to Cornwell's sacrifice - whilst you are correct, what bothered me more was the fact that the only emergency door release was inside the room - it made no sense, to me, that there wasn't one the other side of the door.
I found the clip with the torpedo... and it looked like the only access to the room was via Turbolift. So it would be kinda hard to put a manual override for the torpedo room in the turbolift. I think it was supposed to be more for getting OUT of the room than getting in.
Touching the crystal doesn't "seal your fate". It was specifically mentioned in that episode that the sealing of fate was the price Pike would pay for taking the crystal from Boreth. He was offered the opportunity to turn back, leaving his future open, but chose to sacrifice that future in order to save... well, everybody.
And yes, opening the container in order to overcharge the crystal faster was dangerous. Skydiving is dangerous, too, but people survive it frequently. "Dangerous" =/= "definitely lethal no matter what".
As for the paradox, it's a closed temporal loop, as illustrated in Robert Heinlein's classic "- All You Zombies". There was no "original timeline" from which this was a variant, the loop closed itself off at beginning and end. It was Burnham in the "present" moment who realized what signals 1 through 5 were for, and she knew where and when they had to appear because she had been there when they did. She couldn't program the jump into the future until she had made those signals appear in the past because without them, the reinforcements they needed in order to make the jump would never have appeared (and they wouldn't have had the plans to build the Red Angel in the first place), so it would have introduced an unresolvable paradox into the calculations. Once she had established those points in the past, the suit could then move into the future.
How they might get back, or if they might get back, is also left open to interpretation. For starters, Mom's suit was anchored to the first point she jumped to, some 950 years in the future. The new suit might then be anchored to its earliest jump, which if I recall correctly (and I may not) was the rescue of the Hiawatha. So suddenly the suit, and anyone too close to it, winds up on a small asteroid back in the beginning of Season 2...
Alternatively, they went to the 33rd century, and we know from ENT that Timefleet or something like it was operating in the 31st. If they're still around, then one might assume that Terralysium is declared off-limits for purposes of avoiding paradox (it's not like Dr. Burnham was able to get offplanet and look around in her time), and that the crew of Discovery could still be rescued and possibly sent back. (Hard to reconcile that with the ending of this episode, however, so I tend to doubt that it will be the resolution of the situation.)
Overall, I'd be satisfied if it turned out that this was indeed the series finale, and the "third season" was Pike's adventures aboard Enterprise.
My bet is they don't STAY in the future very long. It makes sense for the timecops to be like: NOPE! and send them back.
As for the time loop idea, many sci-fi writers have postulated that it's possible for a stable time loop to be the end result of erratic timeline fluctuations in the aftermath of successful time travel.
For a Terminator example: one theory is that John Conner was originally the son of someone living in the present. When Skynet tried assassinating him with a predestination paradox it changed his identity instead of erasing him from history. Also, John apparently learned how Terminators work on the inside as a result of this thus making him a more effective Resistance leader in the future. But... Skynet apparently also sent agents back to give it's past self tech upgrades. (In T-3, the T-X apparently copied it's data files to the nascent Skynet as it emerged, and there's no telling how many agents Skynet sent back in time in the T:SCC series) So the war remained a stalemate overall. It's time travel, but the timeline is basically moving SIDEWAYS.
Then there's the idea of time loops that while they SEEM to be stable are actually slowly deteriorating. Example: you go back in time and give an object to your past self, who uses it for several years before repeating this process. BUT, if it's actually the same exact item and not a temporal duplicate, each iteration of the time loop will cause it to deteriorate due to wear and tear, thus eventually it will break.
For a more detailed example: in Back to the Future, Biff gives a book to his past self. However using the book to get rich could have prevented the book from being printed in the new time line. So he couldn't give a new copy of the book to his past self. It'd need to be a similar book or the old one, that's worn and used.
The only way that Discovery would work in the 33rd Century is if the galactic civilization has collapsed. If the Federation or the 33rd Century equivalent still exists, then the USS Discovery and its crew will be a historical oddities that are studied by 33rd Century historians and send the USS Discovery back only if they have records of the USS Discovery being in the 23rd Century after their trip to the future. Temporal organizations are all about protecting their timeline and sending the USS Discovery back to the 23rd Century could destroy their timeline.
Even then, the creators of Discovery went out of their way to explain why we never heard of the spore drive or the USS Discovery so there is no possible chance of the USS Discovery coming back to the 23rd Century Federation. It is possible for the USS Discovery to make an appearance in the Picard series.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,584Community Moderator
My bet is they don't STAY in the future very long. It makes sense for the timecops to be like: NOPE! and send them back.
Unless she was MEANT to stay in the future. Don't forget that Discovery's got some rather dangerous data in her computer core, and a rather unique FTL drive that, if in the wrong hands, could cause all kinds of chaos.
History has no record of USS Discovery having even existed. Reason: Starfleet buried EVERYTHING so deep it would never see the light of day and slapped a Talos IV on top of that.
Did the Timecops intervene with the Xindi? No.
Did the Timecops intervene when the Borg tried to attack the past in First Contact? No.
Did the Timecops intervene with all of Kirk's trips through time? No.
Did the Timecops intervene with the Bozeman? No.
Did the Timecops intervene when Dr. Gilliam came forward with Kirk in ST4? No.
Did the Timecops intervene with Quark's trip to Roswell? No.
Did the Timecops intervene with Voyager? Eh... yes and no.
We kinda already know what will eventually happen to Discovery thanks to Calypso. Other than the added nodes and the AI, there's no descernable differences in Discovery and her technology. On top of that... we don't know what 33rd Century Starfleet is like, let alone if they still even exist. And I believe the general approach with temporal displacement from the past has been to acclimate them to the present. Not send them back to the past.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
unless removing them from the past causes causes the complete destruction of the 'preferred' timeline - see: the airman from tomorrow is yesterday
Yeah, time travel is basically fueled by the power of plot, so the end result is what the plot demands and any explanation is the writer exerting their will.
I finally got around watching it (yay for being sick ) and... excuse me?
That battle sequence was just stupid. Why do we have to emulate videogames in every movie or show and throw millions of expendable trash mobs around? Not only is it silly that Enterprise and Discovery both TRIBBLE out a hundred shuttles and "pods" each, but the whole fast cut dogfighting action was so dark and hectic, I literally did not know what was going on. I just saw all the tiny explosions and people telling me "oh my god, this is happening" but I couldn't make out any of it on the screen. I can follow those scenes, for example in Guardians of the Galaxy and even see what all the tiny ships are doing or going for, it also works in Star Wars, but here? No idea what was going on, aside from the fact that Star Trek fights now involve throwing millions of drones at each other.
The plot itself ended okay, it came full circle and bottled up Discovery neatly, although the explanation at the end for why we never talk about it again seems silly. They basically go to jail if they speak of it. Really? A mind-wipe would have been more plausible. Props however to using the TMP worm hole effect
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I finally got around watching it (yay for being sick ) and... excuse me?
That battle sequence was just stupid. Why do we have to emulate videogames in every movie or show and throw millions of expendable trash mobs around? Not only is it silly that Enterprise and Discovery both TRIBBLE out a hundred shuttles and "pods" each, but the whole fast cut dogfighting action was so dark and hectic, I literally did not know what was going on. I just saw all the tiny explosions and people telling me "oh my god, this is happening" but I couldn't make out any of it on the screen. I can follow those scenes, for example in Guardians of the Galaxy and even see what all the tiny ships are doing or going for, it also works in Star Wars, but here? No idea what was going on, aside from the fact that Star Trek fights now involve throwing millions of drones at each other.
The plot itself ended okay, it came full circle and bottled up Discovery neatly, although the explanation at the end for why we never talk about it again seems silly. They basically go to jail if they speak of it. Really? A mind-wipe would have been more plausible. Props however to using the TMP worm hole effect
Yep, and Kurtzman says all will fall into cannon and make sense at the end.
*face palm* And he says now he's free of cannon......like he was not already......>_>
I finally got around watching it (yay for being sick ) and... excuse me?
That battle sequence was just stupid. Why do we have to emulate videogames in every movie or show and throw millions of expendable trash mobs around? Not only is it silly that Enterprise and Discovery both TRIBBLE out a hundred shuttles and "pods" each, but the whole fast cut dogfighting action was so dark and hectic, I literally did not know what was going on. I just saw all the tiny explosions and people telling me "oh my god, this is happening" but I couldn't make out any of it on the screen. I can follow those scenes, for example in Guardians of the Galaxy and even see what all the tiny ships are doing or going for, it also works in Star Wars, but here? No idea what was going on, aside from the fact that Star Trek fights now involve throwing millions of drones at each other.
The plot itself ended okay, it came full circle and bottled up Discovery neatly, although the explanation at the end for why we never talk about it again seems silly. They basically go to jail if they speak of it. Really? A mind-wipe would have been more plausible. Props however to using the TMP worm hole effect
The more I watch the battle, the more I'm convinced something happened in the middle of post-prod because the VFXs don't make sense with each other in many many cases, with random explosions happening with no visible sources, not even drones crashing on (except when it involves Discovery and Enterprise) and the TOS-styled phaser beams do absolutely nothing to their targets.
My theory is they were going to go with the DSC beam bolts that have plagu... I mean, been part of the show since the beginning, and then the responsible for these left and their replacement went "oh thank god, they're gone, quick! Put some good old-fashioned continuous beams for both phasers and disruptors to make the continuity slightly better!", but they were late so they couldn't add the rest of the VFXs, because some genius wasted time and money deciding phasers should explode in space like WW2 AA shells to look cool.
Also, apart from the 2 S31 ships getting rammed by the cleave ship and Enterprise losing a good chunk of its hull from a single torpedo, I haven't seen much damage to any ship despite all those fireworks. You'd think instead of trying to hit tiny fighters, the 2 main ships would at least try to blow up at least one ship by themselves and see if it cripples its fighter wings.
This could have given an explanation to why the continuous phaser beams were later adopted by Starfleet and the Klingons, like shooting with bolts does nothing but a beam manages to do significant damage and everyone later decides to retrofit their ships to make them able to use beams by default without sacrificing power.
According to this interview we can assume that all the story have been written in STO will be trown out of the window (except a few).
What a pity. It would had been nice if the major lines of STO could make into canon.
I finally got around watching it (yay for being sick ) and... excuse me?
That battle sequence was just stupid. Why do we have to emulate videogames in every movie or show and throw millions of expendable trash mobs around? Not only is it silly that Enterprise and Discovery both TRIBBLE out a hundred shuttles and "pods" each, but the whole fast cut dogfighting action was so dark and hectic, I literally did not know what was going on. I just saw all the tiny explosions and people telling me "oh my god, this is happening" but I couldn't make out any of it on the screen. I can follow those scenes, for example in Guardians of the Galaxy and even see what all the tiny ships are doing or going for, it also works in Star Wars, but here? No idea what was going on, aside from the fact that Star Trek fights now involve throwing millions of drones at each other.
The plot itself ended okay, it came full circle and bottled up Discovery neatly, although the explanation at the end for why we never talk about it again seems silly. They basically go to jail if they speak of it. Really? A mind-wipe would have been more plausible. Props however to using the TMP worm hole effect
The more I watch the battle, the more I'm convinced something happened in the middle of post-prod because the VFXs don't make sense with each other in many many cases, with random explosions happening with no visible sources, not even drones crashing on (except when it involves Discovery and Enterprise) and the TOS-styled phaser beams do absolutely nothing to their targets.
My theory is they were going to go with the DSC beam bolts that have plagu... I mean, been part of the show since the beginning, and then the responsible for these left and their replacement went "oh thank god, they're gone, quick! Put some good old-fashioned continuous beams for both phasers and disruptors to make the continuity slightly better!", but they were late so they couldn't add the rest of the VFXs, because some genius wasted time and money deciding phasers should explode in space like WW2 AA shells to look cool.
Also, apart from the 2 S31 ships getting rammed by the cleave ship and Enterprise losing a good chunk of its hull from a single torpedo, I haven't seen much damage to any ship despite all those fireworks. You'd think instead of trying to hit tiny fighters, the 2 main ships would at least try to blow up at least one ship by themselves and see if it cripples its fighter wings.
This could have given an explanation to why the continuous phaser beams were later adopted by Starfleet and the Klingons, like shooting with bolts does nothing but a beam manages to do significant damage and everyone later decides to retrofit their ships to make them able to use beams by default without sacrificing power.
And Discovery barely had any visible scratches on it, despite the battle.
And funny thing....Archer's time had beams as well, yes?
"You not only brought in Spock this season, but also Anson Mount, who garnered a lot of critical praise and even a fan petition to get a Pike spinoff. Is there a chance of that happening?
The fans have been heard. Anything is possible in the world of Trek. I would love to bring back that crew more than anything. It was a huge risk for us. One of the most gratifying things is to see how deeply the fans have embraced Pike, Spock, Number One and the Enterprise. The idea of getting to tell more stories with them would be a delight for all of us."
To me the above is one of the most interesting QAs . It's more evidence of a possibly Pike series coming.
The Disco staff don't seem to give a damn, not even their own continuity material
This is no different than every other incarnation of Star Trek.
In TOS, are phasers beams that come from the front of the ship, or glowing blips? Is impulse drive faster than light, or can only warp drive do that? Depends on which episode you're watching.
The Disco staff don't seem to give a damn, not even their own continuity material
This is no different than every other incarnation of Star Trek.
In TOS, are phasers beams that come from the front of the ship, or glowing blips? Is impulse drive faster than light, or can only warp drive do that? Depends on which episode you're watching.
My fave scene to repost every time people make canonicity arguments.
I had thought Burnham said to Tilly in season one something about "brand new Constitution class starships like the Enterprise"?
I don't think she referred to them as "brand new". But assignment to a Constitution Class is basically what one would consider a "plum assignment". Only the best get on a Connie.
As for Enterprise herself... she was launched in 2245. So by 2257 or so she's already a little over 10 years old.
Comments
I found the clip with the torpedo... and it looked like the only access to the room was via Turbolift. So it would be kinda hard to put a manual override for the torpedo room in the turbolift. I think it was supposed to be more for getting OUT of the room than getting in.
Also we hear a name for Number One! Its literally blink and you miss it, but its there.
My character Tsin'xing
For all we know, it's an affectionate much shorter nickname.
And yes, opening the container in order to overcharge the crystal faster was dangerous. Skydiving is dangerous, too, but people survive it frequently. "Dangerous" =/= "definitely lethal no matter what".
As for the paradox, it's a closed temporal loop, as illustrated in Robert Heinlein's classic "- All You Zombies". There was no "original timeline" from which this was a variant, the loop closed itself off at beginning and end. It was Burnham in the "present" moment who realized what signals 1 through 5 were for, and she knew where and when they had to appear because she had been there when they did. She couldn't program the jump into the future until she had made those signals appear in the past because without them, the reinforcements they needed in order to make the jump would never have appeared (and they wouldn't have had the plans to build the Red Angel in the first place), so it would have introduced an unresolvable paradox into the calculations. Once she had established those points in the past, the suit could then move into the future.
How they might get back, or if they might get back, is also left open to interpretation. For starters, Mom's suit was anchored to the first point she jumped to, some 950 years in the future. The new suit might then be anchored to its earliest jump, which if I recall correctly (and I may not) was the rescue of the Hiawatha. So suddenly the suit, and anyone too close to it, winds up on a small asteroid back in the beginning of Season 2...
Alternatively, they went to the 33rd century, and we know from ENT that Timefleet or something like it was operating in the 31st. If they're still around, then one might assume that Terralysium is declared off-limits for purposes of avoiding paradox (it's not like Dr. Burnham was able to get offplanet and look around in her time), and that the crew of Discovery could still be rescued and possibly sent back. (Hard to reconcile that with the ending of this episode, however, so I tend to doubt that it will be the resolution of the situation.)
Overall, I'd be satisfied if it turned out that this was indeed the series finale, and the "third season" was Pike's adventures aboard Enterprise.
As for the time loop idea, many sci-fi writers have postulated that it's possible for a stable time loop to be the end result of erratic timeline fluctuations in the aftermath of successful time travel.
For a Terminator example: one theory is that John Conner was originally the son of someone living in the present. When Skynet tried assassinating him with a predestination paradox it changed his identity instead of erasing him from history. Also, John apparently learned how Terminators work on the inside as a result of this thus making him a more effective Resistance leader in the future. But... Skynet apparently also sent agents back to give it's past self tech upgrades. (In T-3, the T-X apparently copied it's data files to the nascent Skynet as it emerged, and there's no telling how many agents Skynet sent back in time in the T:SCC series) So the war remained a stalemate overall. It's time travel, but the timeline is basically moving SIDEWAYS.
Then there's the idea of time loops that while they SEEM to be stable are actually slowly deteriorating. Example: you go back in time and give an object to your past self, who uses it for several years before repeating this process. BUT, if it's actually the same exact item and not a temporal duplicate, each iteration of the time loop will cause it to deteriorate due to wear and tear, thus eventually it will break.
For a more detailed example: in Back to the Future, Biff gives a book to his past self. However using the book to get rich could have prevented the book from being printed in the new time line. So he couldn't give a new copy of the book to his past self. It'd need to be a similar book or the old one, that's worn and used.
My character Tsin'xing
Even then, the creators of Discovery went out of their way to explain why we never heard of the spore drive or the USS Discovery so there is no possible chance of the USS Discovery coming back to the 23rd Century Federation. It is possible for the USS Discovery to make an appearance in the Picard series.
Unless she was MEANT to stay in the future. Don't forget that Discovery's got some rather dangerous data in her computer core, and a rather unique FTL drive that, if in the wrong hands, could cause all kinds of chaos.
History has no record of USS Discovery having even existed. Reason: Starfleet buried EVERYTHING so deep it would never see the light of day and slapped a Talos IV on top of that.
Did the Timecops intervene with the Xindi? No.
Did the Timecops intervene when the Borg tried to attack the past in First Contact? No.
Did the Timecops intervene with all of Kirk's trips through time? No.
Did the Timecops intervene with the Bozeman? No.
Did the Timecops intervene when Dr. Gilliam came forward with Kirk in ST4? No.
Did the Timecops intervene with Quark's trip to Roswell? No.
Did the Timecops intervene with Voyager? Eh... yes and no.
We kinda already know what will eventually happen to Discovery thanks to Calypso. Other than the added nodes and the AI, there's no descernable differences in Discovery and her technology. On top of that... we don't know what 33rd Century Starfleet is like, let alone if they still even exist. And I believe the general approach with temporal displacement from the past has been to acclimate them to the present. Not send them back to the past.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
That battle sequence was just stupid. Why do we have to emulate videogames in every movie or show and throw millions of expendable trash mobs around? Not only is it silly that Enterprise and Discovery both TRIBBLE out a hundred shuttles and "pods" each, but the whole fast cut dogfighting action was so dark and hectic, I literally did not know what was going on. I just saw all the tiny explosions and people telling me "oh my god, this is happening" but I couldn't make out any of it on the screen. I can follow those scenes, for example in Guardians of the Galaxy and even see what all the tiny ships are doing or going for, it also works in Star Wars, but here? No idea what was going on, aside from the fact that Star Trek fights now involve throwing millions of drones at each other.
The plot itself ended okay, it came full circle and bottled up Discovery neatly, although the explanation at the end for why we never talk about it again seems silly. They basically go to jail if they speak of it. Really? A mind-wipe would have been more plausible. Props however to using the TMP worm hole effect
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Yep, and Kurtzman says all will fall into cannon and make sense at the end.
*face palm* And he says now he's free of cannon......like he was not already......>_>
Heck at once point, a beam shot by Discovery goes right through the Enterprise saucer, doing absolutely nothing to it, at 0:06:
My theory is they were going to go with the DSC beam bolts that have plagu... I mean, been part of the show since the beginning, and then the responsible for these left and their replacement went "oh thank god, they're gone, quick! Put some good old-fashioned continuous beams for both phasers and disruptors to make the continuity slightly better!", but they were late so they couldn't add the rest of the VFXs, because some genius wasted time and money deciding phasers should explode in space like WW2 AA shells to look cool.
Also, apart from the 2 S31 ships getting rammed by the cleave ship and Enterprise losing a good chunk of its hull from a single torpedo, I haven't seen much damage to any ship despite all those fireworks. You'd think instead of trying to hit tiny fighters, the 2 main ships would at least try to blow up at least one ship by themselves and see if it cripples its fighter wings.
This could have given an explanation to why the continuous phaser beams were later adopted by Starfleet and the Klingons, like shooting with bolts does nothing but a beam manages to do significant damage and everyone later decides to retrofit their ships to make them able to use beams by default without sacrificing power.
Also rumour has it that Pike's Enterprise might get its own spin off, because Mount's Pike is so popular.
I signed the petition supporting the idea.
According to this interview we can assume that all the story have been written in STO will be trown out of the window (except a few).
What a pity. It would had been nice if the major lines of STO could make into canon.
The Disco staff don't seem to give a damn, not even their own continuity material
And Discovery barely had any visible scratches on it, despite the battle.
And funny thing....Archer's time had beams as well, yes?
> thegrandnagus1 wrote: »
>
> Interesting interview:
>
> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-season-2-finale-time-jump-explained-1203166
>
>
>
>
> According to this interview we can assume that all the story have been written in STO will be trown out of the window (except a few).
> What a pity. It would had been nice if the major lines of STO could make into canon.
"You not only brought in Spock this season, but also Anson Mount, who garnered a lot of critical praise and even a fan petition to get a Pike spinoff. Is there a chance of that happening?
The fans have been heard. Anything is possible in the world of Trek. I would love to bring back that crew more than anything. It was a huge risk for us. One of the most gratifying things is to see how deeply the fans have embraced Pike, Spock, Number One and the Enterprise. The idea of getting to tell more stories with them would be a delight for all of us."
To me the above is one of the most interesting QAs . It's more evidence of a possibly Pike series coming.
My character Tsin'xing
I don't think she referred to them as "brand new". But assignment to a Constitution Class is basically what one would consider a "plum assignment". Only the best get on a Connie.
As for Enterprise herself... she was launched in 2245. So by 2257 or so she's already a little over 10 years old.