My personal view is that the changes are a good idea, BUT it should have been done in tandem with it as part of a collection of their changes. There’s no denying that the RA’s were the Amazon.com of content, killing off people trying other content because they offered an easy access “get everything in one place” solution to all their reward needs. They simply had to get changed at some point as they were not helping the queue situation, they were hindering it.
Now really they should have been made the changes at the same time as improvements to the other content and also possible changes to rewards across the board (not just increases, but less homogeneous rewards). Then at least there would be contentbthat people would be happy to move back towards and fill up their marks etc from.
Let’s not forget that this game lasted perfectly well for years with none of these omni-reward boxes or queues RA’s and it was really only a recent change that led to our current situation. So it’s not actually that far back that player HAD to play mixed queues to get specific rewards. I think we just got too familiar with the easy route and when it’s changed now, people start loosing their minds. Cryptic aren’t free from blame though, they need to work this change in tandem with improvements elsewhere. Because those other queues were already dying and nothing changed there in the last year or so. In short, the old problem still exists but at least the harmful treatment they tried has been removed.
This thread is hilarious. Has anyone summoned DOOM yet?
Frankly, I don't quite see how the game looses anything with players who ONLY play Red Alerts. They are unlikely to buy stuff, to participate in anything that would increase the enjoyment of the game for anyone else (they are not even playing the RA's for enjoyment, but for rewards), and they apparently don't even have any grasp whatsoever about game balance, so not even their theoretical contributions in feedback are useful.
Why yes I did summon DOOM.
As for the rest of that drivel...I mostly do RA when I am online because it is a quick pew pew. And I really can't be bothered for more than a quick pew pew in this game at this point. I could care less about what the hell it gives. I usually click whatever the last box on the list is anyways. I do buy things...including an LTS. And if you think I don't have enough of a grasp on this game's balance...yeah...sorry, but that is the one aspect of games that I am actually good at. I study game theories for fun and actually constantly playtest various games specifically for game mechanics feedback. So a counter proof. You have shown off yourself to be an elitist snob who thinks somebody who does not play as you do is having wrong fun. So...I think your opinion on what is good for the game (or ANY game) is pretty much worthless.
Wow, great post.
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Can only speak for myself (obv), but Borg RA was basically the only queue I did, at whichever random time I logged on, for the choice marks.
Guess I'll just go back to leveling reps via Summer & Winter pet grinding. /shrug (that's how I did most reps, especially on alts, until some time in 2016 or so)
To be very honest, i understand the views here, other qeues should be revamped?, yes, they should, the time/reward ratio is horrible, and as someone who doesnt have too much time to play, i cannot play anything else than RA or events. But i do like the fact the RAs will be on weekends (the only time i got to play), but for a more dedicated players, yes, its complicated.
This thread is hilarious. Has anyone summoned DOOM yet?
Frankly, I don't quite see how the game looses anything with players who ONLY play Red Alerts. They are unlikely to buy stuff, to participate in anything that would increase the enjoyment of the game for anyone else (they are not even playing the RA's for enjoyment, but for rewards), and they apparently don't even have any grasp whatsoever about game balance, so not even their theoretical contributions in feedback are useful.
Why yes I did summon DOOM.
As for the rest of that drivel...I mostly do RA when I am online because it is a quick pew pew. And I really can't be bothered for more than a quick pew pew in this game at this point. I could care less about what the hell it gives. I usually click whatever the last box on the list is anyways. I do buy things...including an LTS. And if you think I don't have enough of a grasp on this game's balance...yeah...sorry, but that is the one aspect of games that I am actually good at. I study game theories for fun and actually constantly playtest various games specifically for game mechanics feedback. So a counter proof. You have shown off yourself to be an elitist snob who thinks somebody who does not play as you do is having wrong fun. So...I think your opinion on what is good for the game (or ANY game) is pretty much worthless.
Wow, great post.
Agreed.. totally on the nail. He's once again using his favorite technique.. arguing against a point no one ever made. No one ever said they play ONLY red alerts.. those players likely don't even exist, but by all means lets conjure them out of thin air to make an argument against a point that was never made. Just another trash post to be discarded.
I usually play RA to get mastery on various ships and because they're the only queues other than CCA which pops regularly.
The higher baseline of 35 marks is nice, but restricting the RA to weekends is not really a solution.
The real problem is that few queues which offer a good time/reward ratio and that the queue list is flooded.
For queues which have an advanced version, the normal version should be removed. Add to this that people with injuries should not be able to queue for advanced or elite content.
Last but not least, decrease the rewards for every injury which is left unhealed at the end of a queue.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Queues were dying because of what Cryptic did in the first place. The first choice marks entered the game in 2013. Every time a new plague vector has opened, more relevant content has died off.
A poor reward structure is never the players' fault. Not even the ones who are asking for this plague to be spread. It's always Cryptic's decision to actually do it or not.
If players refuse to play content to get a reward, then the reward isn't desireable enough. The solution to that is almost never to put the same reward into more content (which just makes it even less desireable), but to make people want it enough to do what it takes to get it. As well as accept that players who still refuse to play simply won't get that reward.
Some here often rail against "forcing" players to do things a certain way to get rewards. But you know what, that's exactly the point of playing a game. A game has rules that say what they player(s) must do to get the desired result and it's their responsibility to make the best of that. Nobody goes to a golf course and demands to be allowed to carry the ball into the hole because it's easier.
This thread is hilarious. Has anyone summoned DOOM yet?
Frankly, I don't quite see how the game looses anything with players who ONLY play Red Alerts. They are unlikely to buy stuff, to participate in anything that would increase the enjoyment of the game for anyone else (they are not even playing the RA's for enjoyment, but for rewards), and they apparently don't even have any grasp whatsoever about game balance, so not even their theoretical contributions in feedback are useful.
Summon Complete !
coffee the finest organic suspension ever devised - Janeway
RA's allow players to avoid putting in any real effort and allow single-player minded folks to avoid interacting with other people. Removing RA's from being available 24/7 could only be good for STO.
* What if i don't want to interact with other players? Why is your way of playing: the right one?; and the others way the wrong one? I can say exactly the opposite, no?
* And what if people doesn't have time to do two or three 15/25 mins TFO's just to get the marks needed? Shouldn't they be allowed to get them in other way, even if less marks?
* Erm.. and if the player likes to play alone and does not have any way of getting said marks other than doing the RA's?? Should he quit playing STO at all? i mean.. what other way can i get Lukari marks, for example, without having to team up with someone and involve me in non-stop senseless space combats?
Oh.. and what if i work every weekend (in a country timezoned with +10 hours than USA) and have mainly my free time during the week? Do i need to search for another job or country just because i cannot find a way to have free weekends so i can play when they want me to play?
So you can play it even if you only have very limited play time on a weeknight for example.
Chance to target a large group of NPCs or an NPC Dreadnought solo, without bothering anyone (except anyone else that wanted to take that Dread, of course, but that seems to happen rarely.)
A great way to test out a new build, for example, and generally feel awesome about yourself.
I think I could actually pass on the mark reward, if I could at least keep the other two.
The old Deep Space Encounters had a similar appeal to me. You could engage NPC groups and blow them at your own leisure, while also optionally grouping up to work together. I am not sure if more players in the map also meant increased NPC spawn sizes, but either way, the old DSEs provided a neat chance to blow up stuff without any time constraints
The revamped DSEs are extremely boring by comparision. If no one else joins, you fight standard sized enemy groups (either 3 frigates or 1 Cruiser/Battleship type enemy, never Dreadnoughts). Once in a blue moon you might get multple players and more fun, and on rare occassions, this also triggers some extra phase with more enemies. This can be fun. But it practically never happens, probably because the rewards are uninteresting and if you happen to be solo, they are very boring.
They could at least be a Double XP Zone perhaps to raise interest.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
There are two separate, but related issues that are being conflated.
The first is whether there are sufficient and efficient ways for players, especially those with limited play time available, to generate various rewards (marks, dil, ec).
The second is how the availability of RAs impacts other queues, especially whether eliminating them would drive players into other content.
Two scenarios illustrate this point: 1) No matter what the reward is, if a player has limited time, he's not going to participate frequently (being the operative word) in a time consuming queue - like most of the time-gated queues; 2) Whether RAs are available or not, players will limit their participation in content that they find frustrating or boring - driven either by poor design or lack of community knowledge of game mechanics and/or effective strategies.
Both lead to even greater frustration as incidents of AFK rise when rewards become desirable, but game play is not.
Eliminating RAs doesn't seem to address either problem.
More than likely, it would have one of two shorter-term effects: 1) it would drive players, temporarily, into other queues to earn rewards, but exacerbate the feast/famine cycle of players leaving in between new content releases; 2) it would drive some players out of the game because playing a game you don't enjoy is not something most people are going to do.
Right now, players who grind RAs do not detract from other players, except to the degree that they earn rewards in such an amount that it actually impacts the exchange or dil market. However, without more detailed data, it could just as likely be that they expand those markets. Certainly, buying or leveling reputations has no impact on other players (except to the degree you believe it somehow contributes to power creep by expanding the number of players with better gear). More pointedly, while they are online, they could opt to participate in other aspects of the game.
It doesn't matter what people say they will or won't do, notoriously unreliable. RAs have proven to be popular. Without alternative palatable options, I don't see how eliminating them could be good for the longer-term health of the game.
I think all the options are really useful as for what you want/like to do in-game and the amount of time you have:
- Normal TFO's: longer time, more rewards, elite marks, etc
- Red Alerts: Shorter time, less rewards
- Solo zones or Patrols: Combat or non-combat involved as: Defera invasion, New Romulus Ground Exploration and Space Patrols, Kobali Ground, Delta Quadrant Patrols, etc
...of course, then, you have the difficulties for each aswell
That's right, the notion of being a starship captain will loose all its appeal when there are no more Red Alerts to easily collect all those marks!
I mean, easy shootings are the essence of Trek, right? Right?
Sure, just ignore the points being made [...].
There are no points. STO did fine before the current version of the RA's. You guys are just pointlessly rageposting about having to run an actual TFO now and then to achieve something in the game.
Nobody is 'rage-posting.' People are a bit concerned, though. Me? I got several thousand Marks saved up already, for every Rep (on all my toons). As they say in Dutch, "Een slimme meid is op haar toekomst voorbereid." (Aka, 'A smart girl is prepared for her future.' Yeah, LOL, it rhyms in Dutch, k?!)
Thing is, I just don't get why one would try and force players to do something. When has that ever worked before?! If ppl don't want to play a particular (set of) queues, then why try and make them? Of course, one ould say, 'Okay, then no T6 Comp gear for you!' But the question remains the same: other than driving away (even more) players, why hinder us this way?! So Geko's metrics, from here on in, will show 'Everyone is playing the queues now, and the players love it!'?! Like I said, I came fully prepared; nevertheless, I don't see any real benefits to this mega nerf, and only drawbacks. Even the upcoming Marks weekend will not be for ALL Marks, but just 3 rather irrelevant ones (iirc).
While moving Red Alerts to weekends and removing cooldown, and upping base marks rewards in my opinion balances itself,
the problem is…
The Red Alerts are turned to "Special weekends" events - like XP weekends, or R&D and others…
so… we get Red Alert weekend now, and will wait for other how long? a month… or two?
Edit:
… maybe longer?
This thread is hilarious. Has anyone summoned DOOM yet?
Frankly, I don't quite see how the game looses anything with players who ONLY play Red Alerts. They are unlikely to buy stuff, to participate in anything that would increase the enjoyment of the game for anyone else (they are not even playing the RA's for enjoyment, but for rewards), and they apparently don't even have any grasp whatsoever about game balance, so not even their theoretical contributions in feedback are useful.
It’s not just Red Alerts based on Random STF from Tribble I can no longer play any of the queues I want to, or do any Red Alerts. I am one of the players that log in almost every day and runs a quick queue and spends money. That is not going to happen anymore because the changes stop me playing what I want to, when I want to.
TFO’s as it is on tribble is completely unsuitable for me. They are not a replacement for Red Alarts or picking the queues I want to do. As I can no longer pick the queue I want to play based on the changes from Tribble, I am left with no way to play a daily fun queue.
If content is popular, one does not abandon it, one makes more like it. It is as simple as that.
Fun fact: Red Alerts used to be souped-up DSEs with very little in the way of rewards. They're overly popular as TFOs simply because you're getting TFO rewards for something that ISN'T built as a TFO. The same is true of the Crystal actually. It's quick and easy because it's a DSE with a unique boss.
This is a good change, it may bring life back to the queues again
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
To be very honest, i understand the views here, other qeues should be revamped?, yes, they should, the time/reward ratio is horrible, and as someone who doesnt have too much time to play, i cannot play anything else than RA or events. But i do like the fact the RAs will be on weekends (the only time i got to play), but for a more dedicated players, yes, its complicated.
When they added the choice of marks rewards to Red Alerts, actually. Few people were playing those queues before that.
So... the 'solution' to revitalizing the queues is to remove the RA's that were instituted because said queues weren't played to begin with?! Must be Cryptic logic.
Nobody's going to suddenly start playing more STFs because most STFs are not fun. All of the ones with annoying time gates and/or mechanics are widely hated and almost no one plays them. And that's all that's been released for years now.
This is a good change, it may bring life back to the queues again
Wouldn't count on it.
It might
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Comments
There’s no denying that the RA’s were the Amazon.com of content, killing off people trying other content because they offered an easy access “get everything in one place” solution to all their reward needs.
They simply had to get changed at some point as they were not helping the queue situation, they were hindering it.
Now really they should have been made the changes at the same time as improvements to the other content and also possible changes to rewards across the board (not just increases, but less homogeneous rewards).
Then at least there would be contentbthat people would be happy to move back towards and fill up their marks etc from.
Let’s not forget that this game lasted perfectly well for years with none of these omni-reward boxes or queues RA’s and it was really only a recent change that led to our current situation. So it’s not actually that far back that player HAD to play mixed queues to get specific rewards. I think we just got too familiar with the easy route and when it’s changed now, people start loosing their minds.
Cryptic aren’t free from blame though, they need to work this change in tandem with improvements elsewhere. Because those other queues were already dying and nothing changed there in the last year or so. In short, the old problem still exists but at least the harmful treatment they tried has been removed.
Wow, great post.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yes... and First Contact day event
Junae, Girquay, Meman'Ikan, Deanna, Elisa Flores, Nuno Espadinha, Heidi, Kolez, T'Vrell, Zarva, Vocan, Oeshi
Agreed.. totally on the nail. He's once again using his favorite technique.. arguing against a point no one ever made. No one ever said they play ONLY red alerts.. those players likely don't even exist, but by all means lets conjure them out of thin air to make an argument against a point that was never made. Just another trash post to be discarded.
The higher baseline of 35 marks is nice, but restricting the RA to weekends is not really a solution.
The real problem is that few queues which offer a good time/reward ratio and that the queue list is flooded.
For queues which have an advanced version, the normal version should be removed. Add to this that people with injuries should not be able to queue for advanced or elite content.
Last but not least, decrease the rewards for every injury which is left unhealed at the end of a queue.
A poor reward structure is never the players' fault. Not even the ones who are asking for this plague to be spread. It's always Cryptic's decision to actually do it or not.
If players refuse to play content to get a reward, then the reward isn't desireable enough. The solution to that is almost never to put the same reward into more content (which just makes it even less desireable), but to make people want it enough to do what it takes to get it. As well as accept that players who still refuse to play simply won't get that reward.
Some here often rail against "forcing" players to do things a certain way to get rewards. But you know what, that's exactly the point of playing a game. A game has rules that say what they player(s) must do to get the desired result and it's their responsibility to make the best of that. Nobody goes to a golf course and demands to be allowed to carry the ball into the hole because it's easier.
Summon Complete !
* What if i don't want to interact with other players? Why is your way of playing: the right one?; and the others way the wrong one? I can say exactly the opposite, no?
* And what if people doesn't have time to do two or three 15/25 mins TFO's just to get the marks needed? Shouldn't they be allowed to get them in other way, even if less marks?
* Erm.. and if the player likes to play alone and does not have any way of getting said marks other than doing the RA's?? Should he quit playing STO at all? i mean.. what other way can i get Lukari marks, for example, without having to team up with someone and involve me in non-stop senseless space combats?
Oh.. and what if i work every weekend (in a country timezoned with +10 hours than USA) and have mainly my free time during the week? Do i need to search for another job or country just because i cannot find a way to have free weekends so i can play when they want me to play?
Junae, Girquay, Meman'Ikan, Deanna, Elisa Flores, Nuno Espadinha, Heidi, Kolez, T'Vrell, Zarva, Vocan, Oeshi
I think I could actually pass on the mark reward, if I could at least keep the other two.
The old Deep Space Encounters had a similar appeal to me. You could engage NPC groups and blow them at your own leisure, while also optionally grouping up to work together. I am not sure if more players in the map also meant increased NPC spawn sizes, but either way, the old DSEs provided a neat chance to blow up stuff without any time constraints
The revamped DSEs are extremely boring by comparision. If no one else joins, you fight standard sized enemy groups (either 3 frigates or 1 Cruiser/Battleship type enemy, never Dreadnoughts). Once in a blue moon you might get multple players and more fun, and on rare occassions, this also triggers some extra phase with more enemies. This can be fun. But it practically never happens, probably because the rewards are uninteresting and if you happen to be solo, they are very boring.
They could at least be a Double XP Zone perhaps to raise interest.
The first is whether there are sufficient and efficient ways for players, especially those with limited play time available, to generate various rewards (marks, dil, ec).
The second is how the availability of RAs impacts other queues, especially whether eliminating them would drive players into other content.
Two scenarios illustrate this point: 1) No matter what the reward is, if a player has limited time, he's not going to participate frequently (being the operative word) in a time consuming queue - like most of the time-gated queues; 2) Whether RAs are available or not, players will limit their participation in content that they find frustrating or boring - driven either by poor design or lack of community knowledge of game mechanics and/or effective strategies.
Both lead to even greater frustration as incidents of AFK rise when rewards become desirable, but game play is not.
Eliminating RAs doesn't seem to address either problem.
More than likely, it would have one of two shorter-term effects: 1) it would drive players, temporarily, into other queues to earn rewards, but exacerbate the feast/famine cycle of players leaving in between new content releases; 2) it would drive some players out of the game because playing a game you don't enjoy is not something most people are going to do.
Right now, players who grind RAs do not detract from other players, except to the degree that they earn rewards in such an amount that it actually impacts the exchange or dil market. However, without more detailed data, it could just as likely be that they expand those markets. Certainly, buying or leveling reputations has no impact on other players (except to the degree you believe it somehow contributes to power creep by expanding the number of players with better gear). More pointedly, while they are online, they could opt to participate in other aspects of the game.
It doesn't matter what people say they will or won't do, notoriously unreliable. RAs have proven to be popular. Without alternative palatable options, I don't see how eliminating them could be good for the longer-term health of the game.
- Normal TFO's: longer time, more rewards, elite marks, etc
- Red Alerts: Shorter time, less rewards
- Solo zones or Patrols: Combat or non-combat involved as: Defera invasion, New Romulus Ground Exploration and Space Patrols, Kobali Ground, Delta Quadrant Patrols, etc
...of course, then, you have the difficulties for each aswell
Junae, Girquay, Meman'Ikan, Deanna, Elisa Flores, Nuno Espadinha, Heidi, Kolez, T'Vrell, Zarva, Vocan, Oeshi
Nobody is 'rage-posting.' People are a bit concerned, though. Me? I got several thousand Marks saved up already, for every Rep (on all my toons). As they say in Dutch, "Een slimme meid is op haar toekomst voorbereid." (Aka, 'A smart girl is prepared for her future.' Yeah, LOL, it rhyms in Dutch, k?!)
Thing is, I just don't get why one would try and force players to do something. When has that ever worked before?! If ppl don't want to play a particular (set of) queues, then why try and make them? Of course, one ould say, 'Okay, then no T6 Comp gear for you!' But the question remains the same: other than driving away (even more) players, why hinder us this way?! So Geko's metrics, from here on in, will show 'Everyone is playing the queues now, and the players love it!'?! Like I said, I came fully prepared; nevertheless, I don't see any real benefits to this mega nerf, and only drawbacks. Even the upcoming Marks weekend will not be for ALL Marks, but just 3 rather irrelevant ones (iirc).
the problem is…
The Red Alerts are turned to "Special weekends" events - like XP weekends, or R&D and others…
so… we get Red Alert weekend now, and will wait for other how long? a month… or two?
Edit:
… maybe longer?
TFO’s as it is on tribble is completely unsuitable for me. They are not a replacement for Red Alarts or picking the queues I want to do. As I can no longer pick the queue I want to play based on the changes from Tribble, I am left with no way to play a daily fun queue.
My character Tsin'xing
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Best I can do.
https://imgflip.com/i/2jdq8y
Wouldn't count on it.
So... the 'solution' to revitalizing the queues is to remove the RA's that were instituted because said queues weren't played to begin with?! Must be Cryptic logic.
It might
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius