It's simple market economics - if the other content were superior, then folks would play it. Taking away other options to force them into other content seems a bit counterproductive. I agree that folks will more likely find other things to do than to do content they don't like.
The whole problem is that the RA time/reward ratio was already so overblown that it didn't matter what they did with the queues no one would play them unless they made those other queues even more broken then RAs are, and that isn't fixing a problem, that's making it worse.
Exactly. RA's are a cancer that destroys participation in the rest of the queues, save CCA and ISA. And even those are dwindling. RA's allow players to avoid putting in any real effort and allow single-player minded folks to avoid interacting with other people. Removing RA's from being available 24/7 could only be good for STO.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
It's simple market economics - if the other content were superior, then folks would play it. Taking away other options to force them into other content seems a bit counterproductive. I agree that folks will more likely find other things to do than to do content they don't like.
The whole problem is that the RA time/reward ratio was already so overblown that it didn't matter what they did with the queues no one would play them unless they made those other queues even more broken then RAs are, and that isn't fixing a problem, that's making it worse.
Exactly. RA's are a cancer that destroys participation in the rest of the queues, save CCA and ISA. And even those are dwindling. RA's allow players to avoid putting in any real effort and allow single-player minded folks to avoid interacting with other people. Removing RA's from being available 24/7 could only be good for STO.
This is a pipe dream. And I have some beautiful tropical beachfront property in Antarctica I was to sell you. Cheap.
Killing the Red Alerts isn't going to revitalize the dead queues. Fixing them and adjusting the rewards (effort/reward ratio) would go further toward getting renewed interests in said queues.
What next? Defera getting the ax because people are using it to generate Omega Marks and Elite Marks instead of the old STFs? Nukara Prime and New Romulus, which have decent payouts for the effort?
In my view, this "feedback" from the anti-RA crowd wasn't very well thought out. Sometimes, I think people are contrarian just for the hell of it.
In my view, this "feedback" from the anti-RA crowd wasn't very well thought out. Sometimes, I think people are contrarian just for the hell of it.
Quite the opposite. The entitled crowd can only suggest "MOAR MARKS, MOAR DIL." Buffing rewards isn't a solution when you are looking at a time spent comparison of 90 seconds (average) on one queue and 5 or even 10 minutes on another. RA's simply had to go. People also forget that this game existed for YEARS before RA's joined the queues and the game was much better off back then. A higher number of queues would pop before people realized they could simply RA their way to a Tier 5 rep completion.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
That's right, the notion of being a starship captain will loose all its appeal when there are no more Red Alerts to easily collect all those marks!
I mean, easy shootings are the essence of Trek, right? Right?
The problem is this game is not focused on you being a "space captain". This is not Eve or Elite or something like Star Traders or Stellar Tactics with a giant universe you can explore and do endless stuff in. The only real "Trek" content in the game is the episodes and once you've finished those a few times each, there's nothing left but pew pew pew in space. For most people that seems to be some of the patrols (Argala, maybe Jappori or Archer) and the RAs and maybe the Deep Space Encounters.
In my view, this "feedback" from the anti-RA crowd wasn't very well thought out. Sometimes, I think people are contrarian just for the hell of it.
Quite the opposite. The entitled crowd can only suggest "MOAR MARKS, MOAR DIL." Buffing rewards isn't a solution when you are looking at a time spent comparison of 90 seconds (average) on one queue and 5 or even 10 minutes on another. RA's simply had to go. People also forget that this game existed for YEARS before RA's joined the queues and the game was much better off back then. A higher number of queues would pop before people realized they could simply RA their way to a Tier 5 rep completion.
Yeah, Comp rep TFOs were never popular, but they still ran regularly …. until Comp marks got added to RA choice boxes. Then the Comp TFOs died overnight.
In my view, this "feedback" from the anti-RA crowd wasn't very well thought out. Sometimes, I think people are contrarian just for the hell of it.
Quite the opposite. The entitled crowd can only suggest "MOAR MARKS, MOAR DIL." Buffing rewards isn't a solution when you are looking at a time spent comparison of 90 seconds (average) on one queue and 5 or even 10 minutes on another. RA's simply had to go. People also forget that this game existed for YEARS before RA's joined the queues and the game was much better off back then. A higher number of queues would pop before people realized they could simply RA their way to a Tier 5 rep completion.
"Entitled Crowd"? Yeah, right. Heeeeere we go..............
The fact is that for the effort and problems involved, the normal queues don't pay out like they should.
I can run the Tholian and Borg Red Alerts, with the daily bonus, and get what I need for a daily rep project and a couple of hourlies,on two different reps, and move on to other things in the game.
It's a matter of economy. You might get more marks per run, but it's a false economy compared to the fast and reliable nature of the Red Alerts. I don't consider dil or loot, because that isn't a factor in the big picture concerning Red Alerts. You can get better payouts on those elsewhere.
And if memory serves me right, the queues were already down in the ghettos of Craptown before the current Red Alert system was in place. Most of those older queues are not worth the effort versus reward, or they are broken all to hell and Cryptic won't fix them.
The statement that the RAs "had to go" is a matter of YOUR personal opinion, not a result of some great insight on your part. For the most part, they work for what they were intended for, and had little to nothing to do with the current state of the queues.
Here's a question: would you still play the RAs if they didn't have the bonus marks as an option?
yep... honestly would play em if they only gave out dil and no marks. I mainly use em for 'quick stuff to do', finishing a ship mastery level thats right on the edge, or sometimes when I need a quick shot of fleet marks to kick a project to start
I play them because I actually....like playing them. All of the rewards are a bonus. I'll freely admit that having them made leveling up Rep trees much more convenient. Losing them will impact my enjoyment of the game (obviously "badwrongfun" ) and like others, I might look elsewhere for my entertainment. I can't say that for certain, but it seems a likely possibility.
Knew this was going to happen when the Random Queues announcement was made. Random Queues pretty much destroyed Neverwinter for me and I fully expect that Cryptic will not execute this Random Queue any better than they did for Neverwinter. We'll see though. At least my important characters have enough marks to reach Tier 6 when that drops so shouldn't be too much of an issue for that. Maybe.
I play them because I actually....like playing them. All of the rewards are a bonus. I'll freely admit that having them made leveling up Rep trees much more convenient. Losing them will impact my enjoyment of the game (obviously "badwrongfun" ) and like others, I might look elsewhere for my entertainment. I can't say that for certain, but it seems a likely possibility.
Fun fact there's a set of accolades for killing all of the Borg Unimatrixes in the Red Alert. Each one has a unique name and there's a title for killing all of them.
RA's are boring, much too easy stuff. It's good that people now will play the more interesting stuff.
or won't. getting rid of the RA except the odd weekend when they decide to is just going to make people schlep to grind omegas in defera, because we have all heard the "L33t" players telling us we suck and to quit and to learn to play the game.
That's right, the notion of being a starship captain will loose all its appeal when there are no more Red Alerts to easily collect all those marks!
I mean, easy shootings are the essence of Trek, right? Right?
oh , please there is no one who has played more than an hour that thinks that the game has any element of Star Trek other thant the name of the damn thing.
That's right, the notion of being a starship captain will loose all its appeal when there are no more Red Alerts to easily collect all those marks!
I mean, easy shootings are the essence of Trek, right? Right?
Sure, just ignore the points being made [...].
There are no points. STO did fine before the current version of the RA's. You guys are just pointlessly rageposting about having to run an actual TFO now and then to achieve something in the game.
casual players won't play the TFOs I know i won't because I HATE PVE grond queues. I have seen too many super players get pissed and attack casual players because tey are not good enough or don't know the content or whatever. and the simple fact is that there IS a skill difference between the STFs I have played and normal PVE. if you die during an RA, or even during vertain feature episodes, you will die frequently and mierably in most of the PVE stf's/ and it's a damn rare "teammate" who will come help you.
that my 2 filipino pesos, for what it is worth. Cryptic hopes they will see a mass migration into the TFOs but while they may see a 5-10% uptick, they will see far more players not signing in until the ra weekends. all they have to do is look at what they are allready doing. are they really seeing amssive uptics in the queue of the weekend vs the rest of the time? MAYBE for CC, but that's only because it's straightforward and easy God Help the newbie to the queues that blow an optional
Well, enjoy your mindless grind. I guess I'll just finish out what story stuff I can until it's either too boring or I need more of those resources I can't get outside of STFs. Heck, I even hope the fanboys get the queues going the way they want, they're just not for me.
I'll just explore what I can, while I can. There are still a few nice places in the galaxy.
You managed to change my view on this topic with your reasonable and insightful way of argumentation. Not often that we disagree on something but if we do I always found it to be of strong potential to widen my horizon. And here and now you are right in my opinion and convinced me.
I always belonged to those theorizing that the multiple choice marks in RA are the main problem for the other PvE maps. Maybe they play into a bit but that’s all. In any case flat out removing content that is popular (for whatever reason) cannot be the way to go. Nobody asked for that anyway. Most of the PvE maps have other problems, numerous actually as elaborated in @tunebreaker ‘s thread and now @lordsteve1 's pol. Removal of functional content as some sort of bizarre hotfix for broken one is cheap and stupid. It is just bad for the game as a whole.
If content is popular, one does not abandon it, one makes more like it. It is as simple as that.
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That's right, the notion of being a starship captain will loose all its appeal when there are no more Red Alerts to easily collect all those marks!
I mean, easy shootings are the essence of Trek, right? Right?
Sure, just ignore the points being made and go right into absurdity and countering an argument that no one ever made.
Not at all surprising considering the source.
I wanted to highlight that one in particular, Sea, with the plea not to run into any nonsensical discussion. Sadly in this forum we seem to have two or three people where I question by now if they can be reasoned with at all on the PvE topic. Reason is that they do not seem to play PvE one way or the other; they hardly seem to know what they are talking about and therefore simply have not much relevance.
In this very case we talk about a player who has spent massive energy in the past to call for player’s abilities to be nerft because they are (were) somehow a hindering factor for him to enjoy general PvE. Well with season 13 he got his will finally and player’s powers were roughly cut back by 1/3 if not more. What did he do? Did he bring life to PvE as a result, playing it and motivate others to join him? Did we have a filled queue list thanks to him or others like him? No! Not at all, he instead chose another path and left the game over it contributing into an already bad situation growing worse.
And now with more changes on the horizon he is back, lol. Sorry Sea, he and players like him are simply not worth the effort to try to discuss certain topics.
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If content is popular, one does not abandon it, one makes more like it. It is as simple as that.
This is the only game I have ever played where the development team actively searches for content players like and targets it for change or removal. It's absolute insanity.
We have tons of content in this game that no one will touch, but instead of spending any time fixing or revamping it, they attack popular activities instead. The Cryptic approach is so backward it's ridiculous.
To be fair, you guys probably had a point on the multiple mark choices for red alerts, and there was probably a solution somewhere in between. As usual though, Cryptic took the quick and lazy 'band aid' approach which involves the least amount of work possible. Rather we agree or disagree on multiple mark boxes, we all agree that removal of content is lazy and stupid.
They could have at least left the Red Alerts with a more limited selection of Marks, that could have started to address the problem without just yanking content that people enjoy playing. I have no problem with the idea of limiting the marks offered from Red Alerts, but complete removal is a typically Cryptic approach.. lazy and nonsensical.
If content is popular, one does not abandon it, one makes more like it. It is as simple as that.
This is the only game I have ever played where the development team actively searches for content players like and targets it for change or removal. It's absolute insanity.
We have tons of content in this game that no one will touch, but instead of spending any time fixing or revamping it, they attack popular activities instead. The Cryptic approach is so backward it's ridiculous.
To be fair, you guys probably had a point on the multiple mark choices for red alerts, and there was probably a solution somewhere in between. As usual though, Cryptic took the quick and lazy 'band aid' approach which involves the least amount of work possible. Rather we agree or disagree on multiple mark boxes, we all agree that removal of content is lazy and stupid.
They could have at least left the Red Alerts with a more limited selection of Marks, that could have started to address the problem without just yanking content that people enjoy playing. I have no problem with the idea of limiting the marks offered from Red Alerts, but complete removal is a typically Cryptic approach.. lazy and nonsensical.
I fully believe that removal of "get all of your marks from RA" is good. But having said that, I also completely agree that they can't do it before they fix the glaring issues with queues. Both gameplay and reward wise. And the complete removal of RAs is not a change I welcome either.
If content is popular, one does not abandon it, one makes more like it. It is as simple as that.
This is the only game I have ever played where the development team actively searches for content players like and targets it for change or removal. It's absolute insanity.
We have tons of content in this game that no one will touch, but instead of spending any time fixing or revamping it, they attack popular activities instead. The Cryptic approach is so backward it's ridiculous.
To be fair, you guys probably had a point on the multiple mark choices for red alerts, and there was probably a solution somewhere in between. As usual though, Cryptic took the quick and lazy 'band aid' approach which involves the least amount of work possible. Rather we agree or disagree on multiple mark boxes, we all agree that removal of content is lazy and stupid.
They could have at least left the Red Alerts with a more limited selection of Marks, that could have started to address the problem without just yanking content that people enjoy playing. I have no problem with the idea of limiting the marks offered from Red Alerts, but complete removal is a typically Cryptic approach.. lazy and nonsensical.
I fully believe that removal of "get all of your marks from RA" is good. But having said that, I also completely agree that they can't do it before they fix the glaring issues with queues. Both gameplay and reward wise. And the complete removal of RAs is not a change I welcome either.
Advanced and elite mode for red alerts to test Cryptic’s legendary matchmaking system? Fine-tuning of daily reward packs to see how much they play into the decision to run em (e.g. enough for the daily but not for gear)? Seasonal red alerts with respective critters only covering the current marks and those of the past season perhaps? Make em more about XP again?
Think there would have been a lot of options but like medics on historical battlefields they feel the need to cut a leg off to save the patient. Well too bad they were too quick to judge again cuz I have the strong feeling they picked the healthy one here.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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This is the only game I have ever played where the development team actively searches for content players like and targets it for change or removal. It's absolute insanity
Have you not played many games, then? EVERY game behaves like this. In EVERY game, developers actively watch out for and target things players like. This is why when you find something you like, you keep your mouth shut about it! Loose lips sink ships!
I see this behavior in other games when that content is considered an exploit. Never to the degree that I see it in STO, not even close.
Here's a question: would you still play the RAs if they didn't have the bonus marks as an option?
yep... honestly would play em if they only gave out dil and no marks. I mainly use em for 'quick stuff to do', finishing a ship mastery level thats right on the edge, or sometimes when I need a quick shot of fleet marks to kick a project to start
They should have just removed the choice boxes and put the XP bonus back in (you know, the way it used to be)
and the 'Event Version' would have the Choice boxes + no cooldown and bonus marks.
as for a 'quick shot of Fleet Marks' I usually go with Fleet Alert or CCA (lately Starbase Incursion cause I still need a couple of Accolades from it)
It did fine, yes, but it wasn't exactly the same game. There were less reputations, and you didn't have things like the Lukari and Competitive tracks which are really only easily advanced through Red Alerts.
Eh? maybe Competitive, but Lukari? no way. That was cake. We just spammed the one with the Space stations. I actually liked that one!
Even Competitive wasn't that bad. The Ground one gave a healthy amount of marks even if you lost.
The reactor one was a bit annoying, not because of the PVP part, I hated the damn color key puzzle. What a pain.
I think I have had the most trouble with Gamma. And thats only because the Swarm occasionally likes to glitch and I don't like traveling to the Gamma quadrant to do the 'Alert'
I think I have had the most trouble with Gamma. And thats only because the Swarm occasionally likes to glitch and I don't like traveling to the Gamma quadrant to do the 'Alert'
Yeah, that bug on Swarm is awful.. other then that though, I really like that map.
I realize it's all a matter of opinion, I don't personally enjoy any of the queues that reward Lukari or Competitive Marks at least not in a PUG scenario. I enjoy the Tzenkethi Front with my fleet so it's not like I have no avenue at all.
Ultimately, what I will do is either get these marks in premades with my fleet or I'll wait until a 'Red Alert Weekend' or some type of special event that rewards multiple marks and I'll stock up then. Either way, I am 100% sure that this change will not in any way encourage me into public queues.
If content is popular, one does not abandon it, one makes more like it. It is as simple as that.
This is the only game I have ever played where the development team actively searches for content players like and targets it for change or removal. It's absolute insanity.
We have tons of content in this game that no one will touch, but instead of spending any time fixing or revamping it, they attack popular activities instead. The Cryptic approach is so backward it's ridiculous.
To be fair, you guys probably had a point on the multiple mark choices for red alerts, and there was probably a solution somewhere in between. As usual though, Cryptic took the quick and lazy 'band aid' approach which involves the least amount of work possible. Rather we agree or disagree on multiple mark boxes, we all agree that removal of content is lazy and stupid.
They could have at least left the Red Alerts with a more limited selection of Marks, that could have started to address the problem without just yanking content that people enjoy playing. I have no problem with the idea of limiting the marks offered from Red Alerts, but complete removal is a typically Cryptic approach.. lazy and nonsensical.
I fully believe that removal of "get all of your marks from RA" is good. But having said that, I also completely agree that they can't do it before they fix the glaring issues with queues. Both gameplay and reward wise. And the complete removal of RAs is not a change I welcome either.
Red alerts worked best in their original format, for which they were named. An unpredictably appearing distress call you could jump into if you saw it in time. They were something you were happy to see because they represented a chance to do something different for a change. Queuifying them turned them into yet another boring standard grind.
And replacing the XP bonus which had been unique (since the removal of the original Mirror Invasion) with yet another stupid universal marks dispenser was pretty much the worst thing they could've done to them. Yes, worse even than removing them completely, as it had a negative effect on a most if not all of the game's other content.
Here's a question: would you still play the RAs if they didn't have the bonus marks as an option?
yep... honestly would play em if they only gave out dil and no marks. I mainly use em for 'quick stuff to do', finishing a ship mastery level thats right on the edge, or sometimes when I need a quick shot of fleet marks to kick a project to start
They should have just removed the choice boxes and put the XP bonus back in (you know, the way it used to be)
and the 'Event Version' would have the Choice boxes + no cooldown and bonus marks.
They should have removed the choice boxes, put the XP bonus back in AND made them randomly occurring sector space contacts with no queue again (all the way like it used to be). And the "Event Version" would have an entirely new unique reward, no choice marks. Choice marks are a plague that never should have seen the light of day in anything at all.
I think I have had the most trouble with Gamma. And thats only because the Swarm occasionally likes to glitch and I don't like traveling to the Gamma quadrant to do the 'Alert'
Yeah, that bug on Swarm is awful.. other then that though, I really like that map.
I realize it's all a matter of opinion, I don't personally enjoy any of the queues that reward Lukari or Competitive Marks at least not in a PUG scenario. I enjoy the Tzenkethi Front with my fleet so it's not like I have no avenue at all.
Ultimately, what I will do is either get these marks in premades with my fleet or I'll wait until a 'Red Alert Weekend' or some type of special event that rewards multiple marks and I'll stock up then. Either way, I am 100% sure that this change will not in any way encourage me into public queues.
I liked all the competitive queues. Didn't even mind the PvP on CA, even though I'd often AFK that bit if the rest of the teams insisted on wasting too much time shooting eachother instead of finishing the mission. The (original) lukari ones I've only tried once or twice each, because the marks were in the alerts it was impossible to pug them even when they were new. But they seemed OK.
Overall, the only mission element I actively dislike in STO are the timed waits with nothing to do but worthless optionals and killing endlessly respawning enemies that give no ship XP. That's a waste of time, worthy only of stopping and doing Admiralty instead.
Other than that, the mission mechanics are generally good. All that's missing is a reason to play them.
It's simple market economics - if the other content were superior, then folks would play it. Taking away other options to force them into other content seems a bit counterproductive. I agree that folks will more likely find other things to do than to do content they don't like.
The whole problem is that the RA time/reward ratio was already so overblown that it didn't matter what they did with the queues no one would play them unless they made those other queues even more broken then RAs are, and that isn't fixing a problem, that's making it worse.
Exactly. RA's are a cancer that destroys participation in the rest of the queues, save CCA and ISA. And even those are dwindling. RA's allow players to avoid putting in any real effort and allow single-player minded folks to avoid interacting with other people. Removing RA's from being available 24/7 could only be good for STO.
You are insane if you think removing the ONLY queues that are running 24/7 is gonna be good for the game. That's like a restaurant going, you know, everyone keeps ordering this shrimp special 24/7 and they all love it...so let's get rid of it other than once every 3 months instead of improving the other menu items if they want to sell more of it. Great way to have people just pick a different restaurant. Had they listen to the player feedback about the random queue system and made it a choice between ground or space or both...than MAYBE your theory of getting some of the people who are using the RA as a mark farm to move over to that system could have worked. But as they have been doing for a while now, what the players want does not matter. They are not giving use that option...which means that system is DoA for most of us who hate one or the other system...or have specialized builds for either and don't want to keep changing. Which means no RA...no queues. I don't understand where you get this idea that I am gonna slog through content I dislike for some reason...or that other people will as well instead of just playing something else. Especially since many of us have flatly said that we will NOT.
I have no idea what the hell is going on over there at cryptic...but really, you need to get your act together fast or we ain't gonna see another anniversary.
Comments
This is a pipe dream. And I have some beautiful tropical beachfront property in Antarctica I was to sell you. Cheap.
Killing the Red Alerts isn't going to revitalize the dead queues. Fixing them and adjusting the rewards (effort/reward ratio) would go further toward getting renewed interests in said queues.
What next? Defera getting the ax because people are using it to generate Omega Marks and Elite Marks instead of the old STFs? Nukara Prime and New Romulus, which have decent payouts for the effort?
In my view, this "feedback" from the anti-RA crowd wasn't very well thought out. Sometimes, I think people are contrarian just for the hell of it.
The problem is this game is not focused on you being a "space captain". This is not Eve or Elite or something like Star Traders or Stellar Tactics with a giant universe you can explore and do endless stuff in. The only real "Trek" content in the game is the episodes and once you've finished those a few times each, there's nothing left but pew pew pew in space. For most people that seems to be some of the patrols (Argala, maybe Jappori or Archer) and the RAs and maybe the Deep Space Encounters.
My character Tsin'xing
"Entitled Crowd"? Yeah, right. Heeeeere we go..............
The fact is that for the effort and problems involved, the normal queues don't pay out like they should.
I can run the Tholian and Borg Red Alerts, with the daily bonus, and get what I need for a daily rep project and a couple of hourlies,on two different reps, and move on to other things in the game.
It's a matter of economy. You might get more marks per run, but it's a false economy compared to the fast and reliable nature of the Red Alerts. I don't consider dil or loot, because that isn't a factor in the big picture concerning Red Alerts. You can get better payouts on those elsewhere.
And if memory serves me right, the queues were already down in the ghettos of Craptown before the current Red Alert system was in place. Most of those older queues are not worth the effort versus reward, or they are broken all to hell and Cryptic won't fix them.
The statement that the RAs "had to go" is a matter of YOUR personal opinion, not a result of some great insight on your part. For the most part, they work for what they were intended for, and had little to nothing to do with the current state of the queues.
yep... honestly would play em if they only gave out dil and no marks. I mainly use em for 'quick stuff to do', finishing a ship mastery level thats right on the edge, or sometimes when I need a quick shot of fleet marks to kick a project to start
Knew this was going to happen when the Random Queues announcement was made. Random Queues pretty much destroyed Neverwinter for me and I fully expect that Cryptic will not execute this Random Queue any better than they did for Neverwinter. We'll see though. At least my important characters have enough marks to reach Tier 6 when that drops so shouldn't be too much of an issue for that. Maybe.
My character Tsin'xing
or won't. getting rid of the RA except the odd weekend when they decide to is just going to make people schlep to grind omegas in defera, because we have all heard the "L33t" players telling us we suck and to quit and to learn to play the game.
oh , please there is no one who has played more than an hour that thinks that the game has any element of Star Trek other thant the name of the damn thing.
Yeah same...
casual players won't play the TFOs I know i won't because I HATE PVE grond queues. I have seen too many super players get pissed and attack casual players because tey are not good enough or don't know the content or whatever. and the simple fact is that there IS a skill difference between the STFs I have played and normal PVE. if you die during an RA, or even during vertain feature episodes, you will die frequently and mierably in most of the PVE stf's/ and it's a damn rare "teammate" who will come help you.
that my 2 filipino pesos, for what it is worth. Cryptic hopes they will see a mass migration into the TFOs but while they may see a 5-10% uptick, they will see far more players not signing in until the ra weekends. all they have to do is look at what they are allready doing. are they really seeing amssive uptics in the queue of the weekend vs the rest of the time? MAYBE for CC, but that's only because it's straightforward and easy God Help the newbie to the queues that blow an optional
I'll just explore what I can, while I can. There are still a few nice places in the galaxy.
You managed to change my view on this topic with your reasonable and insightful way of argumentation. Not often that we disagree on something but if we do I always found it to be of strong potential to widen my horizon. And here and now you are right in my opinion and convinced me.
I always belonged to those theorizing that the multiple choice marks in RA are the main problem for the other PvE maps. Maybe they play into a bit but that’s all. In any case flat out removing content that is popular (for whatever reason) cannot be the way to go. Nobody asked for that anyway. Most of the PvE maps have other problems, numerous actually as elaborated in @tunebreaker ‘s thread and now @lordsteve1 's pol. Removal of functional content as some sort of bizarre hotfix for broken one is cheap and stupid. It is just bad for the game as a whole.
If content is popular, one does not abandon it, one makes more like it. It is as simple as that.
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I wanted to highlight that one in particular, Sea, with the plea not to run into any nonsensical discussion. Sadly in this forum we seem to have two or three people where I question by now if they can be reasoned with at all on the PvE topic. Reason is that they do not seem to play PvE one way or the other; they hardly seem to know what they are talking about and therefore simply have not much relevance.
In this very case we talk about a player who has spent massive energy in the past to call for player’s abilities to be nerft because they are (were) somehow a hindering factor for him to enjoy general PvE. Well with season 13 he got his will finally and player’s powers were roughly cut back by 1/3 if not more. What did he do? Did he bring life to PvE as a result, playing it and motivate others to join him? Did we have a filled queue list thanks to him or others like him? No! Not at all, he instead chose another path and left the game over it contributing into an already bad situation growing worse.
And now with more changes on the horizon he is back, lol. Sorry Sea, he and players like him are simply not worth the effort to try to discuss certain topics.
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This is the only game I have ever played where the development team actively searches for content players like and targets it for change or removal. It's absolute insanity.
We have tons of content in this game that no one will touch, but instead of spending any time fixing or revamping it, they attack popular activities instead. The Cryptic approach is so backward it's ridiculous.
To be fair, you guys probably had a point on the multiple mark choices for red alerts, and there was probably a solution somewhere in between. As usual though, Cryptic took the quick and lazy 'band aid' approach which involves the least amount of work possible. Rather we agree or disagree on multiple mark boxes, we all agree that removal of content is lazy and stupid.
They could have at least left the Red Alerts with a more limited selection of Marks, that could have started to address the problem without just yanking content that people enjoy playing. I have no problem with the idea of limiting the marks offered from Red Alerts, but complete removal is a typically Cryptic approach.. lazy and nonsensical.
You couldn't be more right on that one.
I fully believe that removal of "get all of your marks from RA" is good. But having said that, I also completely agree that they can't do it before they fix the glaring issues with queues. Both gameplay and reward wise. And the complete removal of RAs is not a change I welcome either.
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Advanced and elite mode for red alerts to test Cryptic’s legendary matchmaking system? Fine-tuning of daily reward packs to see how much they play into the decision to run em (e.g. enough for the daily but not for gear)? Seasonal red alerts with respective critters only covering the current marks and those of the past season perhaps? Make em more about XP again?
Think there would have been a lot of options but like medics on historical battlefields they feel the need to cut a leg off to save the patient. Well too bad they were too quick to judge again cuz I have the strong feeling they picked the healthy one here.
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I see this behavior in other games when that content is considered an exploit. Never to the degree that I see it in STO, not even close.
They should have just removed the choice boxes and put the XP bonus back in (you know, the way it used to be)
and the 'Event Version' would have the Choice boxes + no cooldown and bonus marks.
as for a 'quick shot of Fleet Marks' I usually go with Fleet Alert or CCA (lately Starbase Incursion cause I still need a couple of Accolades from it)
Eh? maybe Competitive, but Lukari? no way. That was cake. We just spammed the one with the Space stations. I actually liked that one!
Even Competitive wasn't that bad. The Ground one gave a healthy amount of marks even if you lost.
The reactor one was a bit annoying, not because of the PVP part, I hated the damn color key puzzle. What a pain.
I think I have had the most trouble with Gamma. And thats only because the Swarm occasionally likes to glitch and I don't like traveling to the Gamma quadrant to do the 'Alert'
Yeah, that bug on Swarm is awful.. other then that though, I really like that map.
I realize it's all a matter of opinion, I don't personally enjoy any of the queues that reward Lukari or Competitive Marks at least not in a PUG scenario. I enjoy the Tzenkethi Front with my fleet so it's not like I have no avenue at all.
Ultimately, what I will do is either get these marks in premades with my fleet or I'll wait until a 'Red Alert Weekend' or some type of special event that rewards multiple marks and I'll stock up then. Either way, I am 100% sure that this change will not in any way encourage me into public queues.
And replacing the XP bonus which had been unique (since the removal of the original Mirror Invasion) with yet another stupid universal marks dispenser was pretty much the worst thing they could've done to them. Yes, worse even than removing them completely, as it had a negative effect on a most if not all of the game's other content.
They should have removed the choice boxes, put the XP bonus back in AND made them randomly occurring sector space contacts with no queue again (all the way like it used to be). And the "Event Version" would have an entirely new unique reward, no choice marks. Choice marks are a plague that never should have seen the light of day in anything at all.
I liked all the competitive queues. Didn't even mind the PvP on CA, even though I'd often AFK that bit if the rest of the teams insisted on wasting too much time shooting eachother instead of finishing the mission. The (original) lukari ones I've only tried once or twice each, because the marks were in the alerts it was impossible to pug them even when they were new. But they seemed OK.
Overall, the only mission element I actively dislike in STO are the timed waits with nothing to do but worthless optionals and killing endlessly respawning enemies that give no ship XP. That's a waste of time, worthy only of stopping and doing Admiralty instead.
Other than that, the mission mechanics are generally good. All that's missing is a reason to play them.
Well said.