a historical simulation? based on what evidence of actual events at the battle?
a historical simulation implies that it represents what happened in the battle, but Starfleet didn't actually know what exactly happened. much like these history books give detailed accounts of ancient battles 2,000 years earlier and some how it is accepted as fact in history without knowing if it was all true to begin with.
so that simulation could be historical propaganda to make starfleet look heroic in defeat of the Klingon threat. in game politics aside, it doesn't actually read as that interesting anyway.
Perhaps DSC will show flashbacks surrounding the battle from another point of view in season 2? perhaps a survivor who had practical knowledge of events but has PTSD and a closed book... in any event, i remain skeptical of this TFO.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
a historical simulation? based on what evidence of actual events at the battle?
a historical simulation implies that it represents what happened in the battle, but Starfleet didn't actually know what exactly happened. much like these history books give detailed accounts of ancient battles 2,000 years earlier and some how it is accepted as fact in history without knowing if it was all true to begin with.
Starfleet would have records of the battle, considering it was their own starbase that was hit and was NOT destroyed. So the station's sensors would have recorded the final battle. So unless Klingons got into the habit of wiping data cores immediately after capture, which would frankly be stupid because of the wealth of tactical data stored, there would be records recovered by Starfleet. Not only that... the Klingons themselves would have recorded their victory. So again, unless they decide to just wipe sensor data and rely ENTIRELY on verbal record like vikings recounting their various exploits... there would be records.
While true that we, the viewers/players, don't know the EXACT details of what happened at Starbase One, we DO know its fate. Taken by a Klingon Great House. We saw the aftermath in Discovery.
I doubt they're gonna revisit the battle in Discovery, as we're moving on from the Fed-Klingon War. While there will still be some tension and some fallout... we're going in a different direction now. It is up to outside sources, like STO, to flesh out these events in one form or another. Just like Star Trek Legacy fleshed out a bit of the Earth-Romulan War.
a historical simulation implies that it represents what happened in the battle, but Starfleet didn't actually know what exactly happened. much like these history books give detailed accounts of ancient battles 2,000 years earlier and some how it is accepted as fact in history without knowing if it was all true to begin with.
.
Academic research into military history spends a lot of time dealing with the accuracy and relative weight of accounts and strength of support for individual conjectures. While there are some battles for which there is very little evidence (besides, for example, a self-aggrandizing relief commissioned stating in effect "we beat them" [even though other lines of archeological evidence suggest middling results]) there are others for which exact military deployments can be determined with a relatively high degree of certainty. It depends on the available evidence and while a good history book will cover that in some detail, depending on the audience a full dive into the process and state of research isn't always possible (you have to work up to HST:101.) And note that perfect recreation isn't necessary to provide a reasonable depiction for how battles might have taken place (all that's needed there is a hypothesis.)
The timetable here also isn't on the order of 2,000 years (which isn't particularly ancient. See. the Bronze Age.) It's 2257 to 2410. That's 153 years. This is approximate to treating the American Civil War as a dark and mysterious time for which nothing can be said. That's not an accurate assessment by any means and for Star Trek there's additional levels of post-battle analysis and active sensor data (Earth is next door and it has a lot of orbital infrastructure) on top of routine explanations to infer detail sufficiently to provide a combat training exercise.
And remember: this is a multi-faction TFO. There will be Klingons playing this who (in-universe) wouldn't have any reservation explaining what the FED got wrong. I don't think there's any intended element of FED propaganda here. In universe, it would have a much greater likelihood of turning back on the FED for very obviously (and arbitrarily) taking a petty shot at the KDF (in front of the greater Alliance.)
Post edited by duncanidaho11 on
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Open to all factions. Hmm why would my KDF characters want to defend the Federation?
Let me let my inner Klingon speak to that.
"BAH! ANOTHER SIMULATION! But we are Klingons, and if a warrior does not fight, he does not breathe. As there is no battle presenting itself at this moment, a simulation will have to do. Sure! We could take the role of our ancestors and fight the War of Starbase 1 on our side, but where is the CHALLENGE in that! THEY WON! History already says what the outcome would be if we take up our roles as Warriors of the Empire and take the Earther's space station from them. No! That path leads to stagnation, and stagnation leads to death. Let us take the role of the DEFENDER, and do what the Federation could not do. Protect that station from our ancestors. Save it from its fate. Do this, and we prove, yet again, our superiority. TO STATIONS, WARRIORS! We have a simulation to win!"
> @jhymesba said: > trygvar13 wrote: » > > Open to all factions. Hmm why would my KDF characters want to defend the Federation? > > > > > Let me let my inner Klingon speak to that. > > "BAH! ANOTHER SIMULATION! But we are Klingons, and if a warrior does not fight, he does not breathe. As there is no battle presenting itself at this moment, a simulation will have to do. Sure! We could take the role of our ancestors and fight the War of Starbase 1 on our side, but where is the CHALLENGE in that! THEY WON! History already says what the outcome would be if we take up our roles as Warriors of the Empire and take the Earther's space station from them. No! That path leads to stagnation, and stagnation leads to death. Let us take the role of the DEFENDER, and do what the Federation could not do. Protect that station from our ancestors. Save it from its fate. Do this, and we prove, yet again, our superiority. TO STATIONS, WARRIORS! We have a simulation to win!"
If the needed a motivation to do it, this would do nicely. More likely, they would merely see it as a interesting tactical exercise.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Yup. Tactical Exercise.
Also... Klingons love a good fight. And depending on how the real battle for Starbase 1 went, it would be a tough one for the defenders. Just the kind of battle a Klingon loves.
I'll just bring an Eclipse
Let's see how those 23rd century ships cope with an intel battlecruiser
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
> @theraven2378 said: > I'll just bring an Eclipse > Let's see how those 23rd century ships cope with an intel battlecruiser
Hell, they'd have a hard time dealing with a properly equipped T6 Connie or Atlas class.
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
I've got a Walker class fully set up, I might make it my hero ship
Either that or the Crossfield (again canon build)
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
I'll take my Command Sovy in at least once. And maybe even my Kelvin Connie.
> @themadprofessor#9835 said: > > @theraven2378 said: > > I'll just bring an Eclipse > > Let's see how those 23rd century ships cope with an intel battlecruiser > > Hell, they'd have a hard time dealing with a properly equipped T6 Connie or Atlas class.
If it's like Caleb IV, they won't be able to. My T6 Connie is shredding Klingons right up to the point the game mechanics kill me.
For the accuracity of the simulation we have at least 3 potential sources we know. Records on the starbase itself, records on the ships that escaped and the records of the klingon assault force.
Since this is a joint op there's no reason to have to the simulation be inaccurate apart from the parts that are needed (aka the OPFOR needs to pose a threat and allies durability needs to adjusted as well)
Question: Is Starbase One over Earth in this scenario (as the ST: D episode this scenario is based on was depicted); or is it 100 AUs out from the center of the Sol System (as the scripted dialogue in the SAME episode mentioned on screen)?
Hmmm, maybe they pulled a Deep Space Nine thing and used it's thrusters to reposition itself? Either that or ten years before Kirk takes command of the Enterprise, Star Fleet's astrophysics department pulled off a major prank.
Now, Captains in Star Trek Online will have the opportunity to experience that battle firsthand, through a historical simulation
While you could make the argument simulations in Star Trek are that realistic, I kinda think "firsthand" and "simulation" don't mix well together. Because they contradict each other.
Kind of like the final episode of Star Trek: Enterprise....
a historical simulation? based on what evidence of actual events at the battle?
a historical simulation implies that it represents what happened in the battle, but Starfleet didn't actually know what exactly happened. much like these history books give detailed accounts of ancient battles 2,000 years earlier and some how it is accepted as fact in history without knowing if it was all true to begin with.
so that simulation could be historical propaganda to make starfleet look heroic in defeat of the Klingon threat. in game politics aside, it doesn't actually read as that interesting anyway.
Perhaps DSC will show flashbacks surrounding the battle from another point of view in season 2? perhaps a survivor who had practical knowledge of events but has PTSD and a closed book... in any event, i remain skeptical of this TFO.
Question: Is Starbase One over Earth in this scenario (as the ST: D episode this scenario is based on was depicted); or is it 100 AUs out from the center of the Sol System (as the scripted dialogue in the SAME episode mentioned on screen)?
Hmmm, maybe they pulled a Deep Space Nine thing and used it's thrusters to reposition itself? Either that or ten years before Kirk takes command of the Enterprise, Star Fleet's astrophysics department pulled off a major prank.
Starbase 1 is not Earth Space Dock. It seems any similarity with the planet the base is orbiting with Earth is coincidental (in-universe) and accidental.
I remember reading an interesting theory on what planet or plutoid it actually was supposed to be (I think this was the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/7wgeu3/thoughts_on_starbase_1_vs_earth_spacedock/), with the twist that the writers might have mistaken that dwarf planets closest (Perihelion) and furthest (Aphelion) distance from the sun.
This dwarf planet would be Eris. Eris is the ninth most massive object directly orbiting the sun. It's longest distance is at 97.65 AU (so roughly 100 AU). Around the time the Discovery episode would be set, he would however be at his Perihelion (37,911 AU). It also seems very white, and the (dwarf) planet we see in Discovery also seemed relatively white to me.
There is also an interesting picture in that thread that points out the visual similarity to Earth geography.
But what I find interesting is the colorization here. What would be water on Earth seems very bright-whitish, while the "land" around it looks blueish to me, more like water. So they might have taken Earth and adjusted the color scheme to create their Eris.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Can your ship hold the line against waves of Klingon attackers? Would your presence be enough to change the course of the war?
Yes, to both questions. My shuttle would be enough to change the course of the war.
This is like doing an "accurate recreation" of the Battle of Midway, only the American forces get to choose from an assortment of NATO craft and personnel from the year 2108. I don't need millions of dollars in VR tech to be reasonably certain that NATO in 2108 could curb stomp the Empire of Japan who uses 1940's (or earlier) tech.
Clearly, this is not a simulation, but an exercise in fantasy, which I have no interest in. Any capitol ship from the current STO era (ships created in a time of near-constant strife) should annihilate the Klingon attacking force from nearly 200 years ago.
1
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Clearly... you're not seperating reality from in game mechanics.
YES a modern ship would wipe the floor with one that old in reality.
HOWEVER... if that were the case in STO, then the IKS Worvig should have blown the USS Enterprise to hell long before we arrived in that one mission we go to the past. And the Na'Kuhl should have wiped the floor with the Romulans at Galorndon Core. Hell... the Na'kuhl and the Iconians should have wiped the floor with the players.
But... we're talking Game Balance here. Essentially we're getting the equivelent of a modern BoP modded to look like a Discovery BoP. Which is actually something done in reality as well in training exercises. Tacking on parts to allied tanks to give them the visual appearance of an enemy tank.
> @rattler2 said: > Clearly... you're not seperating reality from in game mechanics. > > YES a modern ship would wipe the floor with one that old in reality. > HOWEVER... if that were the case in STO, then the IKS Worvig should have blown the USS Enterprise to hell long before we arrived in that one mission we go to the past. And the Na'Kuhl should have wiped the floor with the Romulans at Galorndon Core. Hell... the Na'kuhl and the Iconians should have wiped the floor with the players. > > But... we're talking Game Balance here. Essentially we're getting the equivelent of a modern BoP modded to look like a Discovery BoP. Which is actually something done in reality as well in training exercises. Tacking on parts to allied tanks to give them the visual appearance of an enemy tank.
The whole War was completely divorced from any kind of reality......a joke, really....700 or so Kling-Orcs snuffed 10,000+ Feds and took SB 1 right outside Sol itself, and apparently Starfleet Command didn't even notice as Discovery received no warning there was even a battle, much less that the station had fallen.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Up until the Sarco was destroyed the Federation was facing a unified enemy with similar tactics. The second the unifying voice was removed, Starfleet was no longer facing 1 enemy, but many. It became a race to see who could take Earth first, by any means necessary, for bragging rights and power.
Also... Up until they returned and were able to identify themselves as USS Discovery, they were cut off. Also its not out of the realm of possibility that transmissions were jammed. If they were... there would be no way for Starfleet to know. They may be "Kling-orcs" as you call them. But they're still not stupid. A suicide BoP following a starship under cloak to get inside another starbase is actually clever tactics. But one that would not have been seen under T'Kuvma or Kol.
9 months of fighting a war on multiple fronts is bad for any one faction. Under Kol... it was one unified faction against another. Without Kol... it became one vs many. Granted the many was smaller, but still... many.
You are also assuming that those 700 were the ones responsible for taking SB1 in the first place. The fact of the matter is that could just be the garrison they left AFTER they took the station. They had it long enough to paint the crest of a great house on the side big enough for the whole universe to see. Which to me indicates those 700... were just a garrison to hold and keep the claim for their particular house. Not the attacking force. If it was... where are the Klingon ships that attacked the station? All we saw was wreckage of Federation ships. No Klingon ships whatsoever.
Clearly... you're not seperating reality from in game mechanics.
YES a modern ship would wipe the floor with one that old in reality.
HOWEVER... if that were the case in STO, then the IKS Worvig should have blown the USS Enterprise to hell long before we arrived in that one mission we go to the past. And the Na'Kuhl should have wiped the floor with the Romulans at Galorndon Core. Hell... the Na'kuhl and the Iconians should have wiped the floor with the players.
But... we're talking Game Balance here. Essentially we're getting the equivelent of a modern BoP modded to look like a Discovery BoP. Which is actually something done in reality as well in training exercises. Tacking on parts to allied tanks to give them the visual appearance of an enemy tank.
For the italicized, full stop. That's all that should happen. That's why you have reenactments and simulations with period styled equipment and tactics, and not things out of place. Such as with Old Guard units in the U.S. Army, or Renaissance Faire mock battles, or Civil War battles. Which also HELPS keep balance. Historical balance.
For the bold part, you start wanting to talk "Game Balance." There hasn't been "Game Balance" for ages. Not since Delta Rising. And then S13's nerf blanket was draped over players...Only to pretty much be ripped away when Borticus and buddies started churning out even more power creep. And since then, no "Game Balance" really. Game Balance would have had, for example, players pop in, to one of both sides of this particular aggressive argument over who is to own Starbase 1, with gear that should be Tier 1-3 tops if that. Levels dropped down. Lock out ship mastery and rep traits and all the clown powers for the STF. That includes ships. Make it a lower level STF. Everything scaled to time period. Or make it a stomp for your side along the lines of CCA, if you want to use all your blinged out stuff that looks like King Midas blew his load on it.
To your bold and italicized statement: Because it's just as easy to swap out parts from an M1A1 Abrams to throw on the armor and gun from a Tiger 1 for the Battle of the Alamo, right? IF you really wanted to talk about game balance, you use what was in the battle(not a shitstainmodded paint job to hide your "new hotness" ship.) You have the appropriate ships with the appropriate time or settings, with parameters. Like how you got to use the Obelisk or Dyson Sci Destroyer in those Solenae episodes, not rolling up to the party in your blinged out Odyssey or Vengeance or Scimitar. If you wanted to talk game balance, you'd use the tech, or a decent reproduction of time period stuff appropriate to the time and battle. You don't reenact the battle of Little Bighorn with M-4s and AK-47s, do you? You don't see any simulations where you fly an F-16 vs a Sopwith Camel, do you? And you don't railroad all factions to being just like the Feds with just a different outfit scheme, for a superstar heroic defense. No version where you can be in the OpFor role, to see and "simulate" things from the other side as well.
The tardigradephiliac in a previous post has it wrong. It's Fed propaganda, through and through. And it should be owned up to that which it is. And it SHOULD be taken as a dig at an ally. Considering that this Grand Alliance isn't eternal, and there's supposedly "tension" between the allies, let it surface. Or use it as the first step towards splintering this Federation and friends club.
Game balance: As plastic as the smile on Geko's face when the T6 Vor'cha was put out.
Story: More Fed propaganda to make the Feds look like babyfaces, and to make redside look bad. Something along the lines of..."You see? This is why you should join us. We'll teach you to not be so murderous and aggressive and energetic, Klingon. Because what you guys did in the past is pretty scummy. And we'll put you on Ritalin to help calm you down."
Reality: One-sided, recycled, and lazy lawn fudge.
"Stand in solidarity as you come white knight alongside the good guys, Because we the Federation need your help in this stirring defense against the dastardly orks at the gates!"
Question: Is Starbase One over Earth in this scenario (as the ST: D episode this scenario is based on was depicted); or is it 100 AUs out from the center of the Sol System (as the scripted dialogue in the SAME episode mentioned on screen)?
Hmmm, maybe they pulled a Deep Space Nine thing and used it's thrusters to reposition itself? Either that or ten years before Kirk takes command of the Enterprise, Star Fleet's astrophysics department pulled off a major prank.
Starbase 1 is not Earth Space Dock. It seems any similarity with the planet the base is orbiting with Earth is coincidental (in-universe) and accidental.
I remember reading an interesting theory on what planet or plutoid it actually was supposed to be (I think this was the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/7wgeu3/thoughts_on_starbase_1_vs_earth_spacedock/), with the twist that the writers might have mistaken that dwarf planets closest (Perihelion) and furthest (Aphelion) distance from the sun.
This dwarf planet would be Eris. Eris is the ninth most massive object directly orbiting the sun. It's longest distance is at 97.65 AU (so roughly 100 AU). Around the time the Discovery episode would be set, he would however be at his Perihelion (37,911 AU). It also seems very white, and the (dwarf) planet we see in Discovery also seemed relatively white to me.
There is also an interesting picture in that thread that points out the visual similarity to Earth geography.
But what I find interesting is the colorization here. What would be water on Earth seems very bright-whitish, while the "land" around it looks blueish to me, more like water. So they might have taken Earth and adjusted the color scheme to create their Eris.
Mind you, there's also some clouds that look like they were part of the water features....
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,596Community Moderator
Dude... I think yer immursins are bleeding into reality. If it was "propaganda" as you keep claiming... then Starbase 1 would not need to be evacuated. And you don't need to beat us over the head with the KDF patriotism on the forums. We're not here to Role Play our specific faction loyalties. We're just normal people discussing things in a game, in this case one of the upcoming new STFs.
I main Fed myself, but you don't see me waving a Fed Flag calling things that are from a KDF perspective Klingon Propaganda.
Game Balance is Game Balance. The Devs aren't going to make it so that our 25th Century ships can steamroll era specific ships for "historical accuracy" because that is not balanced. That would basically be like saying all enemies in the first mission we can replay should only be lv. 1 despite us being lv. 65 in order to show that we are so much stronger than we were back when we first played it.
Also the T6 Vor'cha is actually a pretty solid ship. Not just a throwaway. And it actually has MORE customization options than the Narendra does. So frankly... KDF got the high end of the deal on this one.
Well maybe not an M-4 Sherman but an M3A3 Stuart. Check the Twilight Zone episode 'The 7th is Made up of Phantoms'. They, at least, had the good sense to leave the tank out of it.
Post edited by ltminns on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
you can run it with 2 people and it dynamically scales to team size?
my new favorite TFO!
a historical simulation implies that it represents what happened in the battle, but Starfleet didn't actually know what exactly happened. much like these history books give detailed accounts of ancient battles 2,000 years earlier and some how it is accepted as fact in history without knowing if it was all true to begin with.
so that simulation could be historical propaganda to make starfleet look heroic in defeat of the Klingon threat. in game politics aside, it doesn't actually read as that interesting anyway.
Perhaps DSC will show flashbacks surrounding the battle from another point of view in season 2? perhaps a survivor who had practical knowledge of events but has PTSD and a closed book... in any event, i remain skeptical of this TFO.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Starfleet would have records of the battle, considering it was their own starbase that was hit and was NOT destroyed. So the station's sensors would have recorded the final battle. So unless Klingons got into the habit of wiping data cores immediately after capture, which would frankly be stupid because of the wealth of tactical data stored, there would be records recovered by Starfleet. Not only that... the Klingons themselves would have recorded their victory. So again, unless they decide to just wipe sensor data and rely ENTIRELY on verbal record like vikings recounting their various exploits... there would be records.
While true that we, the viewers/players, don't know the EXACT details of what happened at Starbase One, we DO know its fate. Taken by a Klingon Great House. We saw the aftermath in Discovery.
I doubt they're gonna revisit the battle in Discovery, as we're moving on from the Fed-Klingon War. While there will still be some tension and some fallout... we're going in a different direction now. It is up to outside sources, like STO, to flesh out these events in one form or another. Just like Star Trek Legacy fleshed out a bit of the Earth-Romulan War.
Academic research into military history spends a lot of time dealing with the accuracy and relative weight of accounts and strength of support for individual conjectures. While there are some battles for which there is very little evidence (besides, for example, a self-aggrandizing relief commissioned stating in effect "we beat them" [even though other lines of archeological evidence suggest middling results]) there are others for which exact military deployments can be determined with a relatively high degree of certainty. It depends on the available evidence and while a good history book will cover that in some detail, depending on the audience a full dive into the process and state of research isn't always possible (you have to work up to HST:101.) And note that perfect recreation isn't necessary to provide a reasonable depiction for how battles might have taken place (all that's needed there is a hypothesis.)
The timetable here also isn't on the order of 2,000 years (which isn't particularly ancient. See. the Bronze Age.) It's 2257 to 2410. That's 153 years. This is approximate to treating the American Civil War as a dark and mysterious time for which nothing can be said. That's not an accurate assessment by any means and for Star Trek there's additional levels of post-battle analysis and active sensor data (Earth is next door and it has a lot of orbital infrastructure) on top of routine explanations to infer detail sufficiently to provide a combat training exercise.
And remember: this is a multi-faction TFO. There will be Klingons playing this who (in-universe) wouldn't have any reservation explaining what the FED got wrong. I don't think there's any intended element of FED propaganda here. In universe, it would have a much greater likelihood of turning back on the FED for very obviously (and arbitrarily) taking a petty shot at the KDF (in front of the greater Alliance.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Let me let my inner Klingon speak to that.
"BAH! ANOTHER SIMULATION! But we are Klingons, and if a warrior does not fight, he does not breathe. As there is no battle presenting itself at this moment, a simulation will have to do. Sure! We could take the role of our ancestors and fight the War of Starbase 1 on our side, but where is the CHALLENGE in that! THEY WON! History already says what the outcome would be if we take up our roles as Warriors of the Empire and take the Earther's space station from them. No! That path leads to stagnation, and stagnation leads to death. Let us take the role of the DEFENDER, and do what the Federation could not do. Protect that station from our ancestors. Save it from its fate. Do this, and we prove, yet again, our superiority. TO STATIONS, WARRIORS! We have a simulation to win!"
> trygvar13 wrote: »
>
> Open to all factions. Hmm why would my KDF characters want to defend the Federation?
>
>
>
>
> Let me let my inner Klingon speak to that.
>
> "BAH! ANOTHER SIMULATION! But we are Klingons, and if a warrior does not fight, he does not breathe. As there is no battle presenting itself at this moment, a simulation will have to do. Sure! We could take the role of our ancestors and fight the War of Starbase 1 on our side, but where is the CHALLENGE in that! THEY WON! History already says what the outcome would be if we take up our roles as Warriors of the Empire and take the Earther's space station from them. No! That path leads to stagnation, and stagnation leads to death. Let us take the role of the DEFENDER, and do what the Federation could not do. Protect that station from our ancestors. Save it from its fate. Do this, and we prove, yet again, our superiority. TO STATIONS, WARRIORS! We have a simulation to win!"
If the needed a motivation to do it, this would do nicely. More likely, they would merely see it as a interesting tactical exercise.
Also... Klingons love a good fight. And depending on how the real battle for Starbase 1 went, it would be a tough one for the defenders. Just the kind of battle a Klingon loves.
Let's see how those 23rd century ships cope with an intel battlecruiser
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
> I'll just bring an Eclipse
> Let's see how those 23rd century ships cope with an intel battlecruiser
Hell, they'd have a hard time dealing with a properly equipped T6 Connie or Atlas class.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Either that or the Crossfield (again canon build)
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
> > @theraven2378 said:
> > I'll just bring an Eclipse
> > Let's see how those 23rd century ships cope with an intel battlecruiser
>
> Hell, they'd have a hard time dealing with a properly equipped T6 Connie or Atlas class.
If it's like Caleb IV, they won't be able to. My T6 Connie is shredding Klingons right up to the point the game mechanics kill me.
Since this is a joint op there's no reason to have to the simulation be inaccurate apart from the parts that are needed (aka the OPFOR needs to pose a threat and allies durability needs to adjusted as well)
While the Romulans spend their time cloaked and laughing all the way!
Hmmm, maybe they pulled a Deep Space Nine thing and used it's thrusters to reposition itself? Either that or ten years before Kirk takes command of the Enterprise, Star Fleet's astrophysics department pulled off a major prank.
With bigger ships involved!
Kind of like the final episode of Star Trek: Enterprise....
They found some footage....
I remember reading an interesting theory on what planet or plutoid it actually was supposed to be (I think this was the thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/7wgeu3/thoughts_on_starbase_1_vs_earth_spacedock/), with the twist that the writers might have mistaken that dwarf planets closest (Perihelion) and furthest (Aphelion) distance from the sun.
This dwarf planet would be Eris. Eris is the ninth most massive object directly orbiting the sun. It's longest distance is at 97.65 AU (so roughly 100 AU). Around the time the Discovery episode would be set, he would however be at his Perihelion (37,911 AU). It also seems very white, and the (dwarf) planet we see in Discovery also seemed relatively white to me.
There is also an interesting picture in that thread that points out the visual similarity to Earth geography.
But what I find interesting is the colorization here. What would be water on Earth seems very bright-whitish, while the "land" around it looks blueish to me, more like water. So they might have taken Earth and adjusted the color scheme to create their Eris.
Yes, to both questions. My shuttle would be enough to change the course of the war.
This is like doing an "accurate recreation" of the Battle of Midway, only the American forces get to choose from an assortment of NATO craft and personnel from the year 2108. I don't need millions of dollars in VR tech to be reasonably certain that NATO in 2108 could curb stomp the Empire of Japan who uses 1940's (or earlier) tech.
Clearly, this is not a simulation, but an exercise in fantasy, which I have no interest in. Any capitol ship from the current STO era (ships created in a time of near-constant strife) should annihilate the Klingon attacking force from nearly 200 years ago.
YES a modern ship would wipe the floor with one that old in reality.
HOWEVER... if that were the case in STO, then the IKS Worvig should have blown the USS Enterprise to hell long before we arrived in that one mission we go to the past. And the Na'Kuhl should have wiped the floor with the Romulans at Galorndon Core. Hell... the Na'kuhl and the Iconians should have wiped the floor with the players.
But... we're talking Game Balance here. Essentially we're getting the equivelent of a modern BoP modded to look like a Discovery BoP. Which is actually something done in reality as well in training exercises. Tacking on parts to allied tanks to give them the visual appearance of an enemy tank.
The Swarm with Klingons.
Simple, easy, and recycled. Just the way Cryptic likes it.
> Clearly... you're not seperating reality from in game mechanics.
>
> YES a modern ship would wipe the floor with one that old in reality.
> HOWEVER... if that were the case in STO, then the IKS Worvig should have blown the USS Enterprise to hell long before we arrived in that one mission we go to the past. And the Na'Kuhl should have wiped the floor with the Romulans at Galorndon Core. Hell... the Na'kuhl and the Iconians should have wiped the floor with the players.
>
> But... we're talking Game Balance here. Essentially we're getting the equivelent of a modern BoP modded to look like a Discovery BoP. Which is actually something done in reality as well in training exercises. Tacking on parts to allied tanks to give them the visual appearance of an enemy tank.
The whole War was completely divorced from any kind of reality......a joke, really....700 or so Kling-Orcs snuffed 10,000+ Feds and took SB 1 right outside Sol itself, and apparently Starfleet Command didn't even notice as Discovery received no warning there was even a battle, much less that the station had fallen.
Also... Up until they returned and were able to identify themselves as USS Discovery, they were cut off. Also its not out of the realm of possibility that transmissions were jammed. If they were... there would be no way for Starfleet to know. They may be "Kling-orcs" as you call them. But they're still not stupid. A suicide BoP following a starship under cloak to get inside another starbase is actually clever tactics. But one that would not have been seen under T'Kuvma or Kol.
9 months of fighting a war on multiple fronts is bad for any one faction. Under Kol... it was one unified faction against another. Without Kol... it became one vs many. Granted the many was smaller, but still... many.
You are also assuming that those 700 were the ones responsible for taking SB1 in the first place. The fact of the matter is that could just be the garrison they left AFTER they took the station. They had it long enough to paint the crest of a great house on the side big enough for the whole universe to see. Which to me indicates those 700... were just a garrison to hold and keep the claim for their particular house. Not the attacking force. If it was... where are the Klingon ships that attacked the station? All we saw was wreckage of Federation ships. No Klingon ships whatsoever.
For the italicized, full stop. That's all that should happen. That's why you have reenactments and simulations with period styled equipment and tactics, and not things out of place. Such as with Old Guard units in the U.S. Army, or Renaissance Faire mock battles, or Civil War battles. Which also HELPS keep balance. Historical balance.
For the bold part, you start wanting to talk "Game Balance." There hasn't been "Game Balance" for ages. Not since Delta Rising. And then S13's nerf blanket was draped over players...Only to pretty much be ripped away when Borticus and buddies started churning out even more power creep. And since then, no "Game Balance" really. Game Balance would have had, for example, players pop in, to one of both sides of this particular aggressive argument over who is to own Starbase 1, with gear that should be Tier 1-3 tops if that. Levels dropped down. Lock out ship mastery and rep traits and all the clown powers for the STF. That includes ships. Make it a lower level STF. Everything scaled to time period. Or make it a stomp for your side along the lines of CCA, if you want to use all your blinged out stuff that looks like King Midas blew his load on it.
To your bold and italicized statement: Because it's just as easy to swap out parts from an M1A1 Abrams to throw on the armor and gun from a Tiger 1 for the Battle of the Alamo, right? IF you really wanted to talk about game balance, you use what was in the battle(not a shitstainmodded paint job to hide your "new hotness" ship.) You have the appropriate ships with the appropriate time or settings, with parameters. Like how you got to use the Obelisk or Dyson Sci Destroyer in those Solenae episodes, not rolling up to the party in your blinged out Odyssey or Vengeance or Scimitar. If you wanted to talk game balance, you'd use the tech, or a decent reproduction of time period stuff appropriate to the time and battle. You don't reenact the battle of Little Bighorn with M-4s and AK-47s, do you? You don't see any simulations where you fly an F-16 vs a Sopwith Camel, do you? And you don't railroad all factions to being just like the Feds with just a different outfit scheme, for a superstar heroic defense. No version where you can be in the OpFor role, to see and "simulate" things from the other side as well.
The tardigradephiliac in a previous post has it wrong. It's Fed propaganda, through and through. And it should be owned up to that which it is. And it SHOULD be taken as a dig at an ally. Considering that this Grand Alliance isn't eternal, and there's supposedly "tension" between the allies, let it surface. Or use it as the first step towards splintering this Federation and friends club.
Game balance: As plastic as the smile on Geko's face when the T6 Vor'cha was put out.
Story: More Fed propaganda to make the Feds look like babyfaces, and to make redside look bad. Something along the lines of..."You see? This is why you should join us. We'll teach you to not be so murderous and aggressive and energetic, Klingon. Because what you guys did in the past is pretty scummy. And we'll put you on Ritalin to help calm you down."
Reality: One-sided, recycled, and lazy lawn fudge.
"Stand in solidarity as you come white knight alongside the good guys, Because we the Federation need your help in this stirring defense against the dastardly orks at the gates!"
Dude... I think yer immursins are bleeding into reality. If it was "propaganda" as you keep claiming... then Starbase 1 would not need to be evacuated. And you don't need to beat us over the head with the KDF patriotism on the forums. We're not here to Role Play our specific faction loyalties. We're just normal people discussing things in a game, in this case one of the upcoming new STFs.
I main Fed myself, but you don't see me waving a Fed Flag calling things that are from a KDF perspective Klingon Propaganda.
Game Balance is Game Balance. The Devs aren't going to make it so that our 25th Century ships can steamroll era specific ships for "historical accuracy" because that is not balanced. That would basically be like saying all enemies in the first mission we can replay should only be lv. 1 despite us being lv. 65 in order to show that we are so much stronger than we were back when we first played it.
Also the T6 Vor'cha is actually a pretty solid ship. Not just a throwaway. And it actually has MORE customization options than the Narendra does. So frankly... KDF got the high end of the deal on this one.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'