While it could revitalise old queues it will depend on how they implement it.
Might end up just be a case of the random joiners are plopped into the same old ones as usual to fill spaces rather than 5 people join random and are given a different queue.
Or knowing cryptic it'll be a group of 5 each in their own different STF solo.
You have the option to untick CCA, the alerts, or whatever you want manually, if exclusion was your actual goal instead of just getting something to pop ASAP.
True but manually clicking each desired mission and hoping other players are doing likewise is a rather inelegant (read: terrible) alternative to a random queue running off a list of "eligible" playlists (ie. not the ready favorites, at least if Cryptic wants this to functionally distinct from the normal grind.)
If you've read the info, the exclusion has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "ready favorites." CCA is out because it's 10-man, not because of any desire to be functionally distinct from anything.
Though, as the announcment does specifiy their intent to create secret blacklists under the guise of "meet[ing] the standards of our modern players" (ie. boring timegates), I do fully expect anything that takes less than 10 minutes to finish will be out just to ensure the new system is as unprofitable for the players as possible. Another good reason to expect the system to be a complete dud.
The facts, the math, is the same for everyone. 500 dil is 500 dil is 500 dil, and not only between ferengi.
Average 60-second CCA drops 1,520 dilithium-equivalent/minute. For a 15-minute timegater to merely match that, it needs a total reward of 22,800. Even the best random box (which will probably drop like 1%), doesn't come to half of that.
Which leaves marks as the only possibly time-efficient reward from this. But unless they remove the choice marks from alerts, those will still get you the daily 55 faster than this gives a random amount. So it will depend on the drop rates on the bigger boxes, because the minimum 50 isn't enough.
This is of course correct and will affect many players who will continue with their CCA. However, the reason why I am in this game is to have fun. And only doing the same thing over and over again isn't fun for me. I did do the Cataclysm, because the bonus rewards really add up, but I would never do CCA on its own (dailies like "do an advanced queue" notwithstanding) because it just is no fun.
Sometimes I do grind for marks (new toons for reps as an example) but I do miss Storming the Spire or Viscous Vhatever which are just more fun because you actually do play the game. And I don't care if they take longer. Your idea of gameplay just isn't the same as mine here. And I would venture the guess that many of the newer players don't know many of the older queues, because they just don't pop, which of course is a self inforcing effect. Maybe that can be countered?
As for the farmers, this is indeed not helpful to them. But on the other hand, I guess they won't suffer, because they can still do what they always did, no harm done.
The question will be: what are the numbers? How many people just want to optimize their DPS (dil per second) vs how many people do want to play some queue? Will one of the groups be significantly larger? Will both prosper? Worst: will both falter? We'll just have to wait and see.
As for ground, I am a little scared of it, too. I only play it in missions, and I'm mostly "run-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-2-run", with maybe three abilities randomly sown in when I feel like it. Good enough for missions, but good enough for GTFO? Dunno, gotta try.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I just hope they took the lessons learned and player feedback wrt random queue implementation from over in NW, and wont repeat some of the drawbacks and issues when this goes live.
Unfortunately, Bort pretty much made it clear already that he's not listening. At least on the Space/Ground issue.
And that's pretty sad. I expect a lot of ppl baling when ground pops up, or other ppl getting very upset, because they're in a ground pug with ppl who don't know the first thing about said queue.
So basically STO is turning Queues into random PVE matches like WOWS? Yeah...NO.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
as long as I can queue specifically for the events i want I.E. Crystaline catastophe, I'm ok with it. i will never use randome queues if I cannot exclude, say ground queues, because if i'm grinding ship traits, I don't want to be chasing a thoilian on Nukara
> @somtaawkhar said: > warpangel wrote: » > > The facts, the math, is the same for everyone. 500 dil is 500 dil is 500 dil, and not only between ferengi. > > Average 60-second CCA drops 1,520 dilithium-equivalent/minute. For a 15-minute timegater to merely match that, it needs a total reward of 22,800. Even the best random box (which will probably drop like 1%), doesn't come to half of that. > > Which leaves marks as the only possibly time-efficient reward from this. But unless they remove the choice marks from alerts, those will still get you the daily 55 faster than this gives a random amount. So it will depend on the drop rates on the bigger boxes, because the minimum 50 isn't enough. > > > > I always love seeing this argument that everyone who plays the game does it solely to turn it into a business, and not just because they enjoy playing the game.
A pointless business consisting of running a single piece of content to get something to run the same content quicker...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
At least STO doesn't have the unholy trinity of tank heal and dps.
Tanking random pugs in wow was on average a pretty unpleasant experience even when you let the idiot dps die a few times because they ignored the healers mana bar. Also usually done under duress because the muppet who signed as tank just didn't want to wait.
The facts, the math, is the same for everyone. 500 dil is 500 dil is 500 dil, and not only between ferengi.
Average 60-second CCA drops 1,520 dilithium-equivalent/minute. For a 15-minute timegater to merely match that, it needs a total reward of 22,800. Even the best random box (which will probably drop like 1%), doesn't come to half of that.
Which leaves marks as the only possibly time-efficient reward from this. But unless they remove the choice marks from alerts, those will still get you the daily 55 faster than this gives a random amount. So it will depend on the drop rates on the bigger boxes, because the minimum 50 isn't enough.
I always love seeing this argument that everyone who plays the game does it solely to turn it into a business, and not just because they enjoy playing the game.
I always love seeing people try and fail to counter it with funny quips and personal anecdotes, when the participation statistics clearly spell out what the facts of the matter are.
as long as I can queue specifically for the events i want I.E. Crystaline catastophe, I'm ok with it. i will never use randome queues if I cannot exclude, say ground queues, because if i'm grinding ship traits, I don't want to be chasing a thoilian on Nukara
TBH, queues give ridiculously poor ship XP anyway.
All this hate for Ground TFOs. I guess they never watched any Star Trek. There are a lot of Redshirts that want to have a word with you.
It must be unsettling to not be able to get 50k DPS on the ground.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I always love seeing people try and fail to counter it with funny quips and personal anecdotes, when the participation statistics clearly spell out what the facts of the matter are.
Well, I dunno if I'd call those statistics particularly credible. The sample size is much too small.
Also self-selecting. I don't enjoy playing games with people for whom everything is SRS BZNS, so I generally steer clear of the queues. Might be fun to do the random ones, though, because the folks I've heard from (including the roommate I mentioned earlier) who are looking forward to this also tend to be people who play for fun. The existing method, on the other tentacle, is dominated by folks who are here to grind something specific, and have no time for silly frivolity like enjoyment.
All this hate for Ground TFOs. I guess they never watched any Star Trek. There are a lot of Redshirts that want to have a word with you.
It must be unsettling to not be able to get 50k DPS on the ground.
It's not that weird. I know a lot of players that avoid ground queues and only do space. It's not a dps thing it's just that ground combat in this game is pretty terrible compared to other mmo's. It feels like it was slapped on as an afterthought during development. I personally don't mind ground, but there are definitely people that hate it and avoid it at all costs.
personally I would never use this system cause I am only speced for space... and even then I do not have any epic gold items... mostly Mk 12 or M13. Also this system only rewards more marks... I need elite marks so you can never choose which elite mark... making it more pointless for me. Yeah you can grind marks to elite marks... but why bother when you should be choosing the que that you need.
once you make out and get all the goodies you need... sure this would be nice to use. till then, ummm thanks I guess.
In missions you're fighting both enemies and idiotic boffs failing to move around maps properly (and bad map design that sometimes amplifies this issue) along side the abilities that sometimes simply refuse to go off because the input delay is painfully bad.
Group ground you swap idiot boffs to potentially idiotic players while keeping the nasty delay on abilities meaning you have to cherry pick which ones to take slightly more. And of course ignoring ones like the new fekhiri flames that have an insanely long activation time of 2-3 secs.
I agree. I don't think this will revitalize queues. One of the things we all have to accept when we PUG is that some folks will not know how to do the queue, not just strategy, but actual mechanics of what needs to happen. This problem will be exacerbated by random placement, not to mention different loadouts for different queues and/or ground vs. space.
My suggestions would be:
#1 Rationalize the number of queues: reduce the number of queues offered at any given time to 2-4 queues (Norm, ADV, Elite) that all have Choice of Marks) with a few always available (Borg and Tholian Red Alerts. Infected Space, Hive Onslaught). Rotate on a weekly basis which queues are available. Ground and Space. Reduce queues when in an Event, so that the remaining queues get filled as players focus on the event.
#2 Rebalance rewards to reflect difficulty and time required = Gateway to Grethor takes much more time than ISA.
#3 Rebalance the AFK/leaving penalty with the queue level to make the penalty more severe AND reflect difficulty. Revise criteria to reflect different team roles - dmg, healer, support. A more refined algorithm is necessary. This will create a greater incentive for players to select skill appropriate queue difficulty. I'd argue that you are not only NOT contributing to an ISA if you're doing less than 10k dps (and I'm not a big dps league kind of guy), but you're actually detracting from the enjoyment of the other players by being a burden - you may as well be AFK. You should be doing Infected Space Normal if your output is that low.
Oh, I forgot to add one thing: If they implemented random drops of unique gear or better quality upgrades (like they have in games like Dark Souls or Borderlands) in specific queues, more people would play those queues. I can't tell you the amount of time I've spent grinding for an Unkempt Harold pistol in Borderlands or Titanite slabs to upgrade in Dark Souls. How about no dil upgrades that are 1/3 the value of a phoenix upgrade or a new weapons that only drop in certain queues.
Is this up on Tribble, yet? Anyone check to see if they changed stuff.
Remember they added "TFOs" to the Mission Journal for folks to do while leveling up.
They may have to re-configure the Mission Journal all over again to get to pick and choose.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
It seems interesting the idea of having some random stfs, based on if you que for the random task force op that after it pops puts the group into a random stf, or if it is more something like a system determines one of the stfs to be the random task force op for that hour/day. It could be worthwhile if the bonus gained for doing this random stf via the system scales to make sure that even the longest of ques would actually reward enough to make it competitive with other shorter ques.
Though truthfully i would have preferred if we got missions from a officer/npc of the different reps to do either different stf ques related to that rep, or do some other tasks in content related to that stfs, which could make more of the large number of stfs more appealing to do an so more populated. If the reward given out for completing these rep-missions werer both some normal rewards (like rep marks, elite marks, dil), but also some rep quite rewards like vanity items related tot he rep, but also that could be expanded on over time to keep the appeal of doing the missions.
This is a good idea, and is more casual-friendly than other MMOs like Final Fantasy XIV where you need to complete more than one queue to get any bonus reward.
As a FFXIV player myself I have to ask, when was this? I can get bonus rewards per (roullete) queue daily, since I started over a year ago in heavensward.
What STO does need is the new player bonus reward. this encourages people to put up with those who don't yet know how to do the queue. although the instant fails on elite would probably make it backfire.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
> @tigeraries said:
> personally I would never use this system cause I am only speced for space... and even then I do not have any epic gold items... mostly Mk 12 or M13. Also this system only rewards more marks... I need elite marks so you can never choose which elite mark... making it more pointless for me. Yeah you can grind marks to elite marks... but why bother when you should be choosing the que that you need.
>
> once you make out and get all the goodies you need... sure this would be nice to use. till then, ummm thanks I guess.
I've successfully played BHE with a TR rifle, and all space specs. Ground in STO is even more easy mode than space, nor does space require any epic items whatsoever.
Yeah, it does require actually learning how to play ground, but realistically... either you know how to play ground or you SUCK at story missions.
I just hope they took the lessons learned and player feedback wrt random queue implementation from over in NW, and wont repeat some of the drawbacks and issues when this goes live.
I find the assumption the Dev team, or anyone else at Cryptic, actually looks at or listens to customer feedback on game related topics highly amusing. They've seldom listened to us before. Why should they suddenly start now? I'll wager one billion quatloos this whole random Queue (Oops! TFO! Yeah! That's what I meant!) will end badly.
I don't play a lot of the Queues(Oops! TFOs! Yeah! That's what I meant!) not because the rewards are too low or they take too long.
I don't play them because they are poorly done. My free time is limited. Not going to waste the little I have on stuff which isn't fun to play.
Artificial timegates. Ridiculous lag which causes the team to fail. Poorly done instructions. Overpowered enemies. Or worse, enemies which go BOOM! when I glance harshly in their direction. Crappy special rewards for Events which have very limited usefulness in my daily play of this game. Broken Queues(Oops! TFOs! Yeah! That's what I meant!) which will probably never be repaired(I am looking at you, Azure Nebula).
The New! Improved! Better than Ever! Random TFO hype spewing forth lately looks remarkably similar to Colonel Toynbee's T**d Polish. Put all the gloss and hype on it you want. Underneath it will still be a t**d.
The very most frustrating thing to me about this subject is the Dev team is more than capable of turning out quality product when they desire to. The revamp of ESD. Legacy of Romulus. Victory is Life. How is it the same group which does stuff like this can be so willfully blind to the flaws in endgame content?
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Comments
Might end up just be a case of the random joiners are plopped into the same old ones as usual to fill spaces rather than 5 people join random and are given a different queue.
Or knowing cryptic it'll be a group of 5 each in their own different STF solo.
Though, as the announcment does specifiy their intent to create secret blacklists under the guise of "meet[ing] the standards of our modern players" (ie. boring timegates), I do fully expect anything that takes less than 10 minutes to finish will be out just to ensure the new system is as unprofitable for the players as possible. Another good reason to expect the system to be a complete dud.
This is of course correct and will affect many players who will continue with their CCA. However, the reason why I am in this game is to have fun. And only doing the same thing over and over again isn't fun for me. I did do the Cataclysm, because the bonus rewards really add up, but I would never do CCA on its own (dailies like "do an advanced queue" notwithstanding) because it just is no fun.
Sometimes I do grind for marks (new toons for reps as an example) but I do miss Storming the Spire or Viscous Vhatever which are just more fun because you actually do play the game. And I don't care if they take longer. Your idea of gameplay just isn't the same as mine here. And I would venture the guess that many of the newer players don't know many of the older queues, because they just don't pop, which of course is a self inforcing effect. Maybe that can be countered?
As for the farmers, this is indeed not helpful to them. But on the other hand, I guess they won't suffer, because they can still do what they always did, no harm done.
The question will be: what are the numbers? How many people just want to optimize their DPS (dil per second) vs how many people do want to play some queue? Will one of the groups be significantly larger? Will both prosper? Worst: will both falter? We'll just have to wait and see.
As for ground, I am a little scared of it, too. I only play it in missions, and I'm mostly "run-1-1-1-2-1-1-1-2-run", with maybe three abilities randomly sown in when I feel like it. Good enough for missions, but good enough for GTFO? Dunno, gotta try.
And that's pretty sad. I expect a lot of ppl baling when ground pops up, or other ppl getting very upset, because they're in a ground pug with ppl who don't know the first thing about said queue.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
> warpangel wrote: »
>
> The facts, the math, is the same for everyone. 500 dil is 500 dil is 500 dil, and not only between ferengi.
>
> Average 60-second CCA drops 1,520 dilithium-equivalent/minute. For a 15-minute timegater to merely match that, it needs a total reward of 22,800. Even the best random box (which will probably drop like 1%), doesn't come to half of that.
>
> Which leaves marks as the only possibly time-efficient reward from this. But unless they remove the choice marks from alerts, those will still get you the daily 55 faster than this gives a random amount. So it will depend on the drop rates on the bigger boxes, because the minimum 50 isn't enough.
>
>
>
> I always love seeing this argument that everyone who plays the game does it solely to turn it into a business, and not just because they enjoy playing the game.
A pointless business consisting of running a single piece of content to get something to run the same content quicker...
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Tanking random pugs in wow was on average a pretty unpleasant experience even when you let the idiot dps die a few times because they ignored the healers mana bar. Also usually done under duress because the muppet who signed as tank just didn't want to wait.
TBH, queues give ridiculously poor ship XP anyway.
Right. Farming stuff in this game is pointless as none of it is needed for anything. Doesn't change the fact players still go for the best rewards.
It must be unsettling to not be able to get 50k DPS on the ground.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It's definitely not that. Ground DPS is easy.
It's not that weird. I know a lot of players that avoid ground queues and only do space. It's not a dps thing it's just that ground combat in this game is pretty terrible compared to other mmo's. It feels like it was slapped on as an afterthought during development. I personally don't mind ground, but there are definitely people that hate it and avoid it at all costs.
I don't particularly hate it, I just don't like it very much.
once you make out and get all the goodies you need... sure this would be nice to use. till then, ummm thanks I guess.
STORY ARC = TFO that was added to it.
EMPIRE = Romulan Imperial Minefield
ROMULAN MYSTERY = Azure Nebula Rescue
CARDASSIAN STRUGGLE = Assault on Terok Nor *or* Counterpoint
BORG ADVANCE = Infected *or* Cure *or* Khitomer Accord
NEW ROMULUS = Atmosphere Assault *or* Defending Rh'Ihho Station *or* Vault: Ensnared
SOLANAE DYSON SPHERE = Breach *or* Storming the Spire
DELTA QUADRANT = ???? Uh, never did the missions for Delta Rising, I can't click "Hail" to see what got added.
REMEMBER this is on TRIBBLE and subject to change.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
In missions you're fighting both enemies and idiotic boffs failing to move around maps properly (and bad map design that sometimes amplifies this issue) along side the abilities that sometimes simply refuse to go off because the input delay is painfully bad.
Group ground you swap idiot boffs to potentially idiotic players while keeping the nasty delay on abilities meaning you have to cherry pick which ones to take slightly more. And of course ignoring ones like the new fekhiri flames that have an insanely long activation time of 2-3 secs.
oh man, i've been there done that with some stuff
My suggestions would be:
#1 Rationalize the number of queues: reduce the number of queues offered at any given time to 2-4 queues (Norm, ADV, Elite) that all have Choice of Marks) with a few always available (Borg and Tholian Red Alerts. Infected Space, Hive Onslaught). Rotate on a weekly basis which queues are available. Ground and Space. Reduce queues when in an Event, so that the remaining queues get filled as players focus on the event.
#2 Rebalance rewards to reflect difficulty and time required = Gateway to Grethor takes much more time than ISA.
#3 Rebalance the AFK/leaving penalty with the queue level to make the penalty more severe AND reflect difficulty. Revise criteria to reflect different team roles - dmg, healer, support. A more refined algorithm is necessary. This will create a greater incentive for players to select skill appropriate queue difficulty. I'd argue that you are not only NOT contributing to an ISA if you're doing less than 10k dps (and I'm not a big dps league kind of guy), but you're actually detracting from the enjoyment of the other players by being a burden - you may as well be AFK. You should be doing Infected Space Normal if your output is that low.
Oh, I forgot to add one thing: If they implemented random drops of unique gear or better quality upgrades (like they have in games like Dark Souls or Borderlands) in specific queues, more people would play those queues. I can't tell you the amount of time I've spent grinding for an Unkempt Harold pistol in Borderlands or Titanite slabs to upgrade in Dark Souls. How about no dil upgrades that are 1/3 the value of a phoenix upgrade or a new weapons that only drop in certain queues.
Remember they added "TFOs" to the Mission Journal for folks to do while leveling up.
They may have to re-configure the Mission Journal all over again to get to pick and choose.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Though truthfully i would have preferred if we got missions from a officer/npc of the different reps to do either different stf ques related to that rep, or do some other tasks in content related to that stfs, which could make more of the large number of stfs more appealing to do an so more populated. If the reward given out for completing these rep-missions werer both some normal rewards (like rep marks, elite marks, dil), but also some rep quite rewards like vanity items related tot he rep, but also that could be expanded on over time to keep the appeal of doing the missions.
As a FFXIV player myself I have to ask, when was this? I can get bonus rewards per (roullete) queue daily, since I started over a year ago in heavensward.
What STO does need is the new player bonus reward. this encourages people to put up with those who don't yet know how to do the queue. although the instant fails on elite would probably make it backfire.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
My character Tsin'xing
I find the assumption the Dev team, or anyone else at Cryptic, actually looks at or listens to customer feedback on game related topics highly amusing. They've seldom listened to us before. Why should they suddenly start now? I'll wager one billion quatloos this whole random Queue (Oops! TFO! Yeah! That's what I meant!) will end badly.
I don't play a lot of the Queues(Oops! TFOs! Yeah! That's what I meant!) not because the rewards are too low or they take too long.
I don't play them because they are poorly done. My free time is limited. Not going to waste the little I have on stuff which isn't fun to play.
Artificial timegates. Ridiculous lag which causes the team to fail. Poorly done instructions. Overpowered enemies. Or worse, enemies which go BOOM! when I glance harshly in their direction. Crappy special rewards for Events which have very limited usefulness in my daily play of this game. Broken Queues(Oops! TFOs! Yeah! That's what I meant!) which will probably never be repaired(I am looking at you, Azure Nebula).
The New! Improved! Better than Ever! Random TFO hype spewing forth lately looks remarkably similar to Colonel Toynbee's T**d Polish. Put all the gloss and hype on it you want. Underneath it will still be a t**d.
The very most frustrating thing to me about this subject is the Dev team is more than capable of turning out quality product when they desire to. The revamp of ESD. Legacy of Romulus. Victory is Life. How is it the same group which does stuff like this can be so willfully blind to the flaws in endgame content?