So they arnt addressing why the QUE's arnt being played? Like, take to long, dont reward, boring, overly difficult? I mean, its sooooo much fun to get into a mission that says do X for 15 minutes... Oh and heres 20 marks when your done. Yeah, I wont be doing more gambling in STO... We have enough already.
If that was the main reason those TFOs are unpopular they'd at least get played a little. The main reason is worse. People don't CARE that they exist. IE no one plays them because they have no reason to want the rewards.
Right. And the extra reward from this is just more of the same. Even if the epic box dropped every time, it wouldn't be nearly enough to make long queues competitive with CCA in dil grinding.
It may be somewhat competitive with the alerts on marks grinding, though.
Sure it won't help farmers much, they're better off with Admiralty and contraband from marauding.
But most casuals aren't dil farmers. My guess is that Cryptic cares a lot more about improving their experience than the farmers'.
Not sold at all. Forcing ppl, in pugs, to cooperate has never worked before. I foresee a mess, when ppl are being queued for something which (because of RNG) turns out to be something they don't want to/can do. Ppl will bale, grumpily take the Penalty, and leave the rest in even further disarray.
If you want to revitalize the queues, make them inherently more interesting.
I was on board until I found out you can't pick ground or space.
Not sold at all. Forcing ppl, in pugs, to cooperate has never worked before. I foresee a mess, when ppl are being queued for something which (because of RNG) turns out to be something they don't want to/can do. Ppl will bale, grumpily take the Penalty, and leave the rest in even further disarray.
If you want to revitalize the queues, make them inherently more interesting.
I was on board until I found out you can't pick ground or space.
I actually like the rest of it.
But.. but, I don't do ground. Honestly, I don't. I suck at it. And I have no desire to not suck at it. Bad move, Cryptic.
The mix of G & S queues will be a bit of an issue i think. Many people only like one or the other so will just leave any queue they dislike.
And there's also the issue of some queues being knackered anyway (hello Azure Nebula!) so what's to be done about that.
interesting for those who like random stuff, but personally i'm not + i don't need dil; i have already ton of dil, with 8000/per, i still have months off refining, and i earn dil every day.
random groupings are not the answer. they need to rebalance the rewards. if grind 1 takes 10 minutes and grind 3 takes 40 minutes, the reward from 3 needs to be 4 that of 1 that is the only way to make it o they will all get played
Not sold at all. Forcing ppl, in pugs, to cooperate has never worked before. I foresee a mess, when ppl are being queued for something which (because of RNG) turns out to be something they don't want to/can do. Ppl will bale, grumpily take the Penalty, and leave the rest in even further disarray.
If you want to revitalize the queues, make them inherently more interesting.
I was on board until I found out you can't pick ground or space.
I actually like the rest of it.
But.. but, I don't do ground. Honestly, I don't. I suck at it. And I have no desire to not suck at it. Bad move, Cryptic.
I do, I do Elite Grounds on a fairly regular basis.
But usually, I am in the mood to do one or the other, not a random mix of either. Maybe on occasion, but for the most part, I won't be using the 'random' feature. I usually like to at least switch up my specializations before hand (Commando) and I can't really do that when I don't know what I am going to be playing.
Difficulty isn't the issue, as said before.. ground combat is pretty easy. I think you would be fine if you decided you wanted to do ground missions. They're really not very hard.
Not sold at all. Forcing ppl, in pugs, to cooperate has never worked before. I foresee a mess, when ppl are being queued for something which (because of RNG) turns out to be something they don't want to/can do. Ppl will bale, grumpily take the Penalty, and leave the rest in even further disarray.
If you want to revitalize the queues, make them inherently more interesting.
I was on board until I found out you can't pick ground or space.
I actually like the rest of it.
But.. but, I don't do ground. Honestly, I don't. I suck at it. And I have no desire to not suck at it. Bad move, Cryptic.
I do, I do Elite Grounds on a fairly regular basis.
But usually, I am in the mood to do one or the other, not a random mix of either. Maybe on occasion, but for the most part, I won't be using the 'random' feature. I usually like to at least switch up my specializations before hand (Commando) and I can't really do that when I don't know what I am going to be playing.
Difficulty isn't the issue, as said before.. ground combat is pretty easy. I think you would be fine if you decided you wanted to do ground missions. They're really not very hard.
I have excellent, all Epic ground gear (even on my new Jem). Stuff keeps disappearing from my ground tray, though, and there are no loadouts for it, so at some point I just told Cryptic, 'TRIBBLE ground!' I could probably do them, but am unfamiliar with most -- and I suspect I'm not the only one -- so, things could get messy with ground mixed in.
interesting for those who like random stuff, but personally i'm not + i don't need dil; i have already ton of dil, with 8000/per, i still have months off refining, and i earn dil every day.
This is not about dil, this is about marks. I think we can kiss goodbye to new marks in red alerts. From now on only random dungeons will give out the newest marks.
Blizzard implemented daily dungeons 10 years ago. I think it was high time we got them in STO.
I just hope they took the lessons learned and player feedback wrt random queue implementation from over in NW, and wont repeat some of the drawbacks and issues when this goes live.
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So they arnt addressing why the QUE's arnt being played? Like, take to long, dont reward, boring, overly difficult? I mean, its sooooo much fun to get into a mission that says do X for 15 minutes... Oh and heres 20 marks when your done. Yeah, I wont be doing more gambling in STO... We have enough already.
If that was the main reason those TFOs are unpopular they'd at least get played a little. The main reason is worse. People don't CARE that they exist. IE no one plays them because they have no reason to want the rewards.
Right. And the extra reward from this is just more of the same. Even if the epic box dropped every time, it wouldn't be nearly enough to make long queues competitive with CCA in dil grinding.
It may be somewhat competitive with the alerts on marks grinding, though.
Enh, more is more. so more stuff means more reason to do something.
I just hope they took the lessons learned and player feedback wrt random queue implementation from over in NW, and wont repeat some of the drawbacks and issues when this goes live.
Unfortunately, Bort pretty much made it clear already that he's not listening. At least on the Space/Ground issue.
He's probably open to other small tweaks, but ultimately it's about what he wants, not what we want. If you see room for improvement, you can try posting in the suggestion thread, I don't know if they'll read it or not.. but worth a shot I guess.
"Just looking to GTFO" yeah.. no! seriously, how many people are looking to get out of the game when they mention that and it is released? Don't know why they couldn't just call it Random Queues. instead it would be GRQ or SRQ.
none the less a name change and shoehorning all the queues into a lottery when there are enough queues doesn't change anything. i really don't see what is so interesting about it. and Kurland catching flies or looking sexy as advertisement for this rather hollow change to try make it into something is hardly worth the effort to get excited about. After a few weeks it will be back to normal again.
Cryptic devs should of just saved their resources and efforts on things that actually matter to their game.
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"Just looking to GTFO" yeah.. no! seriously, how many people are looking to get out of the game when they mention that and it is released? Don't know why they couldn't just call it Random Queues. instead it would be GRQ or SRQ.
none the less a name change and shoehorning all the queues into a lottery when there are enough queues doesn't change anything. i really don't see what is so interesting about it. and Kurland catching flies or looking sexy as advertisement for this rather hollow change to try make it into something is hardly worth the effort to get excited about. After a few weeks it will be back to normal again.
in theory, it should work like it does in other games. (Like FFXIV)
it is a way to reward players who play TFOs other than the 3 Space TFOs most people farm.
but they REALLY need to fix some of the current TFOs before they implement it
"Just looking to GTFO" yeah.. no! seriously, how many people are looking to get out of the game when they mention that and it is released? Don't know why they couldn't just call it Random Queues. instead it would be GRQ or SRQ.
none the less a name change and shoehorning all the queues into a lottery when there are enough queues doesn't change anything. i really don't see what is so interesting about it. and Kurland catching flies or looking sexy as advertisement for this rather hollow change to try make it into something is hardly worth the effort to get excited about. After a few weeks it will be back to normal again.
in theory, it should work like it does in other games. (Like FFXIV)
it is a way to reward players who play TFOs other than the 3 Space TFOs most people farm.
but they REALLY need to fix some of the current TFOs before they implement it
It goes without saying that Cryptic have done nothing for those outside the fleet centric content in years in regards to this area. the fact they have to tidy up their KDF-Federation war arc, again. It is something they definately need to overhaul before they should even consider this name change.
Of course anyone who has been around STO long enough will realise that any rewards they get will be a few experience points, a few marks and a little unrefined dilithium. I'm not holding my breath on Cryptic easing up their grinding experience for one moment, i do not expect anything special when it is all said and done.
It goes without saying that Cryptic have done nothing for those outside the fleet-centric content in years in regards to this area. the fact they have to tidy up their KDF-Federation war arc, again. It is something they definitely need to overhaul before they should even consider this name change.
Of course anyone who has been around STO long enough will realize that any rewards they get will be a few experience points, a few marks and a little unrefined dilithium. I'm not holding my breath on Cryptic easing up their grinding experience for one moment, i do not expect anything special when it is all said and done.
This update isn't directed at Fleets or end-game. It is CLEARLY for casual players and new players (and somewhat for Alt-a-holics)
I would LOVE for them to do something with Fleets besides adding another Dilithium/time-sink Holding
Fleet Alert
Colony Invasion
The cargo hold one I forget the name
all of that content needs rethinking
but this update has little to do with them in that fashion.
Their goal seems to be to try and get people back into the queues. I don't agree with their chosen method completely, but I understand it.
I would rather try and help them make it work, rather than sit back and wait for it (hope for it) to fail.
As for the tidying of the KDF-Fed arc, I think that has more to do with the addition of ST:Discovery content
Of course anyone who has been around STO long enough will realize that any rewards they get will be a few experience points, a few marks and a little unrefined dilithium.
They actually posted the rewards.
I wouldn't say its a few Marks/unrefined dilithium, but I will agree the low-end could be a bit better.
but considering the bonus reward has no cooldown, it could build up pretty quickly
There has in fact been a "random" queue option since the revamp, since there's a box that lets you select all queues in the list. You will end up in whatever fills first (probably CCA or an alert). I've used it many times. It's actually better than this, you can choose ground or space, marks categories, it doesn't arbitrarily exclude some queues, etc.
I don't think Cryptic could or should cater to the farmers; and I say that as a farmer. That said, people who have already made up their minds don't actually care about facts.
The facts, the math, is the same for everyone. 500 dil is 500 dil is 500 dil, and not only between ferengi.
Average 60-second CCA drops 1,520 dilithium-equivalent/minute. For a 15-minute timegater to merely match that, it needs a total reward of 22,800. Even the best random box (which will probably drop like 1%), doesn't come to half of that.
Which leaves marks as the only possibly time-efficient reward from this. But unless they remove the choice marks from alerts, those will still get you the daily 55 faster than this gives a random amount. So it will depend on the drop rates on the bigger boxes, because the minimum 50 isn't enough.
You will end up in whatever fills first (probably CCA or an alert).
yeah, this got me thinking, you "sacrifice" yourself queuing for CCA and the system puts 9 random dudes beside you who get 2x marks, 2x elite marks and 2x dil. And you will "only" have the very good feeling of making those dudes' day. (lol...)
Anyways, I think this will be the new endgame. Cryptic will tailor everything around this dungeoneering.
My only question is will they buff this above admiralty or not...
Problem is, you can't run CCA every minute. Even if you cycled through alts you couldn't get 15 through in a half an hour.
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You will end up in whatever fills first (probably CCA or an alert).
yeah, this got me thinking, you "sacrifice" yourself queuing for CCA and the system puts 9 random dudes beside you who get 2x marks, 2x elite marks and 2x dil. And you will "only" have the very good feeling of making those dudes' day. (lol...)
No, you won't. As the announcment says, all 10+ player queues are excluded from the randoms. Those 9 random dudes will therefore NEVER get into CCA, but instead some timegated 15 minute slog where they will spend 15x the time to get a few extra peanuts. Or worse, something like Khitomer ground that actually requires a bit of teamwork, that they will fail completely if they weren't lucky enough to get matched with some players who actually know what they're doing.
Problem is, you can't run CCA every minute. Even if you cycled through alts you couldn't get 15 through in a half an hour.
The problem is you don't have to run CCA every minute to beat this. Sure, if you get a turnabout of 3-4 minutes per CCA, the Epic box will just about equal the reward/time (I don't know how fast you can actually repeat it, never tried). But how many Epic drops can you honestly expect to see? The common drop is barely even worth mentioning.
And reward/time isn't about repeating content. Even if you weren't farming with multiple toons, it would still be overwhelmingly better to at least do CCA first, before rolling dice with the randoms.
There has in fact been a "random" queue option since the revamp, since there's a box that lets you select all queues in the list. You will end up in whatever fills first (probably CCA or an alert). I've used it many times. It's actually better than this, you can choose ground or space, marks categories, it doesn't arbitrarily exclude some queues, etc.
Hence it ending up with CCA or an alert most frequently, hence its inability to be called a fallback to the standard grind (exclusion is necessary in order to have that option.)
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There has in fact been a "random" queue option since the revamp, since there's a box that lets you select all queues in the list. You will end up in whatever fills first (probably CCA or an alert). I've used it many times. It's actually better than this, you can choose ground or space, marks categories, it doesn't arbitrarily exclude some queues, etc.
Hence it ending up with CCA or an alert most frequently, hence its inability to be called a fallback to the standard grind (exclusion is necessary in order to have that option.)
You have the option to untick CCA, the alerts, or whatever you want manually, if exclusion was your actual goal instead of just getting something to pop ASAP.
You have the option to untick CCA, the alerts, or whatever you want manually, if exclusion was your actual goal instead of just getting something to pop ASAP.
True but manually clicking each desired mission and hoping other players are doing likewise is a rather inelegant (read: terrible) alternative to a random queue running off a list of "eligible" playlists (ie. not the ready favorites, at least if Cryptic wants this to functionally distinct from the normal grind.)
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The mix of G & S queues will be a bit of an issue i think. Many people only like one or the other so will just leave any queue they dislike.
And there's also the issue of some queues being knackered anyway (hello Azure Nebula!) so what's to be done about that.
Given how few ground queues there are with fewer than 10 persons compared to space queues it's highly likely that most random content will be space. The whole thing is little more than a storm in a teacup.
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Comments
Sure it won't help farmers much, they're better off with Admiralty and contraband from marauding.
But most casuals aren't dil farmers. My guess is that Cryptic cares a lot more about improving their experience than the farmers'.
I was on board until I found out you can't pick ground or space.
I actually like the rest of it.
But.. but, I don't do ground.
And there's also the issue of some queues being knackered anyway (hello Azure Nebula!) so what's to be done about that.
I do, I do Elite Grounds on a fairly regular basis.
But usually, I am in the mood to do one or the other, not a random mix of either. Maybe on occasion, but for the most part, I won't be using the 'random' feature. I usually like to at least switch up my specializations before hand (Commando) and I can't really do that when I don't know what I am going to be playing.
Difficulty isn't the issue, as said before.. ground combat is pretty easy. I think you would be fine if you decided you wanted to do ground missions. They're really not very hard.
I have excellent, all Epic ground gear (even on my new Jem). Stuff keeps disappearing from my ground tray, though, and there are no loadouts for it, so at some point I just told Cryptic, 'TRIBBLE ground!'
This is not about dil, this is about marks. I think we can kiss goodbye to new marks in red alerts. From now on only random dungeons will give out the newest marks.
Blizzard implemented daily dungeons 10 years ago. I think it was high time we got them in STO.
The day TFOs are implemented, he's going to dust off his old Defiant and play again. So that's one person actually returning because of this.
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Unfortunately, Bort pretty much made it clear already that he's not listening. At least on the Space/Ground issue.
He's probably open to other small tweaks, but ultimately it's about what he wants, not what we want. If you see room for improvement, you can try posting in the suggestion thread, I don't know if they'll read it or not.. but worth a shot I guess.
none the less a name change and shoehorning all the queues into a lottery when there are enough queues doesn't change anything. i really don't see what is so interesting about it. and Kurland catching flies or looking sexy as advertisement for this rather hollow change to try make it into something is hardly worth the effort to get excited about. After a few weeks it will be back to normal again.
Cryptic devs should of just saved their resources and efforts on things that actually matter to their game.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
in theory, it should work like it does in other games. (Like FFXIV)
it is a way to reward players who play TFOs other than the 3 Space TFOs most people farm.
but they REALLY need to fix some of the current TFOs before they implement it
like the T6 Nova!
I heard the T6 Nova could do Space and GROUND TFOs!
and if you have 5 of them on the same team, you could form Voltron!
It goes without saying that Cryptic have done nothing for those outside the fleet centric content in years in regards to this area. the fact they have to tidy up their KDF-Federation war arc, again. It is something they definately need to overhaul before they should even consider this name change.
Of course anyone who has been around STO long enough will realise that any rewards they get will be a few experience points, a few marks and a little unrefined dilithium. I'm not holding my breath on Cryptic easing up their grinding experience for one moment, i do not expect anything special when it is all said and done.
spam? why do i even come on these forums any more..
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
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This update isn't directed at Fleets or end-game. It is CLEARLY for casual players and new players (and somewhat for Alt-a-holics)
I would LOVE for them to do something with Fleets besides adding another Dilithium/time-sink Holding
Fleet Alert
Colony Invasion
The cargo hold one I forget the name
all of that content needs rethinking
but this update has little to do with them in that fashion.
Their goal seems to be to try and get people back into the queues. I don't agree with their chosen method completely, but I understand it.
I would rather try and help them make it work, rather than sit back and wait for it (hope for it) to fail.
As for the tidying of the KDF-Fed arc, I think that has more to do with the addition of ST:Discovery content
They actually posted the rewards.
I wouldn't say its a few Marks/unrefined dilithium, but I will agree the low-end could be a bit better.
but considering the bonus reward has no cooldown, it could build up pretty quickly
really, you should lighten up. you take this way too seriously.
The facts, the math, is the same for everyone. 500 dil is 500 dil is 500 dil, and not only between ferengi.
Average 60-second CCA drops 1,520 dilithium-equivalent/minute. For a 15-minute timegater to merely match that, it needs a total reward of 22,800. Even the best random box (which will probably drop like 1%), doesn't come to half of that.
Which leaves marks as the only possibly time-efficient reward from this. But unless they remove the choice marks from alerts, those will still get you the daily 55 faster than this gives a random amount. So it will depend on the drop rates on the bigger boxes, because the minimum 50 isn't enough.
Which is why people will likely continue to do CCA and alerts instead of this.
yeah, this got me thinking, you "sacrifice" yourself queuing for CCA and the system puts 9 random dudes beside you who get 2x marks, 2x elite marks and 2x dil. And you will "only" have the very good feeling of making those dudes' day. (lol...)
Anyways, I think this will be the new endgame. Cryptic will tailor everything around this dungeoneering.
My only question is will they buff this above admiralty or not...
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The problem is you don't have to run CCA every minute to beat this. Sure, if you get a turnabout of 3-4 minutes per CCA, the Epic box will just about equal the reward/time (I don't know how fast you can actually repeat it, never tried). But how many Epic drops can you honestly expect to see? The common drop is barely even worth mentioning.
And reward/time isn't about repeating content. Even if you weren't farming with multiple toons, it would still be overwhelmingly better to at least do CCA first, before rolling dice with the randoms.
Hence it ending up with CCA or an alert most frequently, hence its inability to be called a fallback to the standard grind (exclusion is necessary in order to have that option.)
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True but manually clicking each desired mission and hoping other players are doing likewise is a rather inelegant (read: terrible) alternative to a random queue running off a list of "eligible" playlists (ie. not the ready favorites, at least if Cryptic wants this to functionally distinct from the normal grind.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Given how few ground queues there are with fewer than 10 persons compared to space queues it's highly likely that most random content will be space. The whole thing is little more than a storm in a teacup.