> @meimeitoo said: I like that Enterprise tried at least to canonize at least some part of the discrepancy, so we had something to go on, in terms of rationalizing the difference.
That's in my opinion where the whole misery started. "Explaining" things that don't need explanations with ludicrous reasons to simulate 'depth' is somethimg that really hurts the whole. I sincerly hope DSC does not attempt to adress why they reinvented Klingons in-universe.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
That's in my opinion where the whole misery started. "Explaining" things that don't need explanations with ludicrous reasons to simulate 'depth' is somethimg that really hurts the whole. I sincerly hope DSC does not attempt to adress why they reinvented Klingons in-universe.
That's a fair point. Hand to Gawd, I hope they don't do that either.
It's not disingenuous. Having holes is non-canon. All that can be seen of their heads is the same pitting they've had before. Having holes is fanfiction. We've not seen the skulls on screen therefore any claim they have holes is also fanfiction.
The cast of Star Trek: Discovery made mockups of "Klingon skulls" and put them on display at the SDCC in 2017. Those skulls were props used on the Sarcophagus Ship. The cast verified that Klingons have holes in their skulls in multiple interviews (and even explained why in one interview). Why are you being so obtuse about this? You can clearly see the holes on the heads of the Klingons in TRIBBLE.
If the "pheromone receptors" are "fanfiction" than the legitimacy of Star Trek:Discovery is called into question. Which is silly. The Klingons have been retconned, again. Everyone has pointed out there is precedent for this so "no one should be surprised" that a "villain of the week" was remastered "George Lucas" style to appeal to a modern audience.
DSCs Klingons are existing Klingons so they can have hair it's a simple as that. Unless the actual show retcons them into a third type of Klingon (bog standard and Augment virus affected being the other two types) they remain the same as they always have done and the hair is just a fashion choice.
You are wrong.
Star Trek is a fictional universe. We cannot make any assumptions about the blatantly fictional parts. It is the job of the creator to do that. It is called "world building". The audience should not have to make up their own fiction to fill in blanks left in the author's story or setting.
This is especially true for Star Trek: Discovery as the cast have established that they are deliberately changing portions of the setting to "modernize" Star Trek for a new audience. This is why cast interviews are important to give context to the changes they made on-screen. Personally, I think that Season One needed an episode to flesh out our Klingon antagonists and give them some traits beyond "liar" and "murderer". Well developed antagonists improve any story tremendously.
There comes a point where it's simply unproductive to continue conversing or responding, and past that point, it's sometimes advisable to simply warn anyone else making the same mistake I made, to stop now, while you're ahead and simply accept that some people you can't communicate with, that it's as futile as yelling at a wall, because it's actually morphed into something very akin to political arguments, only involving someone else's intellectual property, and with zero real-world value, because no matter how much hard evidence you put in front of them, they're going to call you dishonest.
You know, I recently made a similar observation about a discussion that you and @warpangel were having and I came to the same conclusion. I believe I will take your (and my own) advice and let this rest.
> @meimeitoo said: I like that Enterprise tried at least to canonize at least some part of the discrepancy, so we had something to go on, in terms of rationalizing the difference.
That's in my opinion where the whole misery started. "Explaining" things that don't need explanations with ludicrous reasons to simulate 'depth' is somethimg that really hurts the whole. I sincerly hope DSC does not attempt to adress why they reinvented Klingons in-universe.
There comes a point where it's simply unproductive to continue conversing or responding, and past that point, it's sometimes advisable to simply warn anyone else making the same mistake I made, to stop now, while you're ahead and simply accept that some people you can't communicate with, that it's as futile as yelling at a wall, because it's actually morphed into something very akin to political arguments, only involving someone else's intellectual property, and with zero real-world value, because no matter how much hard evidence you put in front of them, they're going to call you dishonest.
You know, I recently made a similar observation about a discussion that you and @warpangel were having and I came to the same conclusion. I believe I will take your (and my own) advice and let this rest.
Or when Artan starts talking about canon policy...
The cast of Star Trek: Discovery made mockups of "Klingon skulls" and put them on display at the SDCC in 2017. Those skulls were props used on the Sarcophagus Ship. The cast verified that Klingons have holes in their skulls in multiple interviews (and even explained why in one interview). Why are you being so obtuse about this? You can clearly see the holes on the heads of the Klingons in TRIBBLE.
Give me a timestamp to where these skulls appeared onscreen. Because until they do it's not canon. And are you blind, there's no holes (beyond the standard five), only pitted ridges.
If the "pheromone receptors" are "fanfiction" than the legitimacy of Star Trek:Discovery is called into question. Which is silly. The Klingons have been retconned, again. Everyone has pointed out there is precedent for this so "no one should be surprised" that a "villain of the week" was remastered "George Lucas" style to appeal to a modern audience.
Incorrect. Until the 'pheromone receptors' are referenced onscreen then they remain non-canon.
Star Trek is a fictional universe. We cannot make any assumptions about the blatantly fictional parts. It is the job of the creator to do that. It is called "world building". The audience should not have to make up their own fiction to fill in blanks left in the author's story or setting.
This is especially true for Star Trek: Discovery as the cast have established that they are deliberately changing portions of the setting to "modernize" Star Trek for a new audience. This is why cast interviews are important to give context to the changes they made on-screen. Personally, I think that Season One needed an episode to flesh out our Klingon antagonists and give them some traits beyond "liar" and "murderer". Well developed antagonists improve any story tremendously.
Incorrect. If it's onscreen it happened. Even if it's contradictory. So Klingons remain as always having had hair. It really is that simple.
You know, I recently made a similar observation about a discussion that you and @warpangel were having and I came to the same conclusion. I believe I will take your (and my own) advice and let this rest.
Looks like patrickngo has a broken irony meter. Some people can be so bluntly dogmatic despite having not a shred of support from the show itself. Laughable .
Not to mention the NX-class model seen on Admiral Marcus' desk.
Next to the NX Alpha as well.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Most likely a new skin will come out for the current T6 TOS version.
Trekyards (see screenshot) just did a video on the TRIBBLE Enterprise, its quite a bit bigger than the TOS one. Hard to be a skin for it like that.
I like the look of the TRIBBLE Enterprise, its kinda a mix if the TOS and TMP one. It's more 'true' than the KT one is overall; even with the TRIBBLE grunge look they have in that show.
Seems like the Disco designers are trying to compensate for some personal.....shortcomings, shall we say?
And Disco seems to have a fetish for grungy looking ships.....
All they need to do is increase the scale of the TOS and TMP versions to match.
As the Conni was the single and only example of a TOS Starship (all the other ones were cargo ships of various sorts) it never appeared alongside any other ship well enough to get a scale. There's also the shuttlebay which is sodding huge! Considering people seem to think the KT Conni is Galaxy sized for the single reason of the shuttlebay (but not Voyager that also has a shuttlebay too big for it) then just scale up the TOS Conni.
Well... the issue also comes up with the fact that apparently the "official" size for the Kelvin Connie was given by the powers that be. And yet the details clearly indicate a ship closer to the size of the TOS Connie. Maybe slightly bigger.
Hell... the hull details put her at a more realistic 366 meters. The ONLY thing that scales her up is the shuttlebay scene in Earth orbit. Which shrinks when Pike takes a shuttle out over Vulcan.
And yet we seen so many shots of the exposed interiors of the saucer, showing only 2 decks. JJ and the others pretty much took the model and blew it up to double size, and not stop to think of details. The bridge module is HUGE.....if it was kept the original size, THEN put on the saucer, it would be more believable.
> @markhawkman said: > artan42 wrote: » > > markhawkman wrote: » > > Or when Artan starts talking about canon policy... > > > > We're all still waiting on that source you have that proves CBS have changed their canon policy. > > > > you mean OTHER than their website, which you reject because you prefer an out-of-date version only accessible by the internet wayback machine...
You mean the "outdated" policy which was reinforced quite recently by Discovery's writers?
It is one thing to discuss the canon itself, but fighting over the definition seems nonsensical. It's simply the base line that should exist when talking about this so all are on the same page, then talk opinions. But claiming everything/nothing/onlywhatilike is canon doesn't help.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,561Community Moderator
Well... at least for ships like Enterprise, the grungy look kinda makes sense as they have been in space for years. Its not like they can go through the Starship Wash every few lightyears.
Also... the gunmetal grey is a better leadup to the more grey hulls of TMP and TNG than the white, clean hulls of TOS. I kinda like the gunmetal grey. Makes it feel a bit more real to me. Like something that's seen action. Not something that just came out of the shipyard all sparkly clean and polished like a sports car.
Its a working ship. Not a display model.
Also a few of the changes to the Discovery Connie kinda address a few... structural issues in the TOS Connie. The nacelle pylons are wider, thus adding a bit more support, and the neck is a bit shorter and wider as well. She looks like she can take a hit better than her TOS counterpart, especially in those areas.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,561Community Moderator
You'd be surprised. I mean just look at the difference between the NX-01 and NX-02 when they met up.
And then compare the Discovery from 2001:
to the Discovery from 2010:
She went from stark white to a ruddy clay like color over time.
Also space isn't a TOTAL vacuum. There are particles and stuff floating around.
> @meimeitoo said: I like that Enterprise tried at least to canonize at least some part of the discrepancy, so we had something to go on, in terms of rationalizing the difference.
That's in my opinion where the whole misery started. "Explaining" things that don't need explanations with ludicrous reasons to simulate 'depth' is somethimg that really hurts the whole. I sincerly hope DSC does not attempt to adress why they reinvented Klingons in-universe.
I have to agree 100%. Before the botched Enterprise episode that "explained" smooth foreheads was released, I was actually satisfied with Roddenberry's statement on the issue. Something to the effect "the makeup was too expensive for the time. Just imagine that Klingons always had forehead ridges."
All of this fan crying about visuals being different from old series like TOS to new series like Discovery is just stupid. We have better tech now. Therefore we have more advanced looking ships and more detailed (and less human looking) aliens. We have zero reason to explain why the TOS Enterprise bridge looks like a Fisher Price toy compared to Discovery's bridge looking the way it does now.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
Of course, that Discovery was orbiting apparently not far from Io, whose sulfur volcanoes fire ejecta clear of the moon's escape velocity, forming a thin ring around Jupiter.
However, there are a multitude of things in normal space, from small dust clouds to nebulae to micrometeroids to stellar flares, that could discolor a ship's hull. We have no idea what might be in subspace that could do that. And of course NCC-1031 got to travel through the interstellar mycelial network, and you know what mushrooms grow best in...
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Star Trek starships are only grungy if they miss that all important baryon sweep.
Regarding hull plate colors, I prefer the pearlescent Starfleet Clean look of the TMP Constitution over the gunmetal grey. Though I appreciate ones mileage varies on that point.
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Well... at least for ships like Enterprise, the grungy look kinda makes sense as they have been in space for years. Its not like they can go through the Starship Wash every few lightyears.
Also... the gunmetal grey is a better leadup to the more grey hulls of TMP and TNG than the white, clean hulls of TOS. I kinda like the gunmetal grey. Makes it feel a bit more real to me. Like something that's seen action. Not something that just came out of the shipyard all sparkly clean and polished like a sports car.
Its a working ship. Not a display model.
Also a few of the changes to the Discovery Connie kinda address a few... structural issues in the TOS Connie. The nacelle pylons are wider, thus adding a bit more support, and the neck is a bit shorter and wider as well. She looks like she can take a hit better than her TOS counterpart, especially in those areas.
Yet the TOS connie took nuclear explosions at close range, Doomsday Machine fire, and such and held up well, despite the slimmer build.
To me, an advanced civilization, even a few centuries beyond ours would look 'magical' or impossible.
Here's some stuff from Doug Drexler about the Enterprise J:
Doug Drexler had estimated the length of this vessel as being about two miles. "I don't think it's that large [in the scheme of things], really. I run into this a lot on the internet, where people freak out. They say, 'Two miles?! That's absurd!' But if you are a reader of science fiction and you don't just watch science fiction on television," Drexler said, with a laugh, "you'll know that huge, enormous ships is not a strange thing; I mean, there are ships that are many times bigger than that. And even in the Star Trek universe, we've seen alien races that can build machines like a Dyson sphere, for instance. Two miles seems like a lot in Star Trek terms, but the whole idea is that the J is supposed to be, you know, [from] a far-flung future date, so that means you've gotta stretch things to the point where people are going, 'That's ridiculous!' because that's what makes it futuristic, is it's hard to believe."
Doug Drexler was extremely doubtful that the layout of the craft would include a traditional-looking bridge. He thought the ship's computations wouldn't be done via bio-mimetic gel packs or anything similar to those. "For all we know, the ship is using, you know, the synapses of every person aboard the ship to do its computations," he speculated. Drexler thought the vessel wouldn't include any holodecks, since they would be deemed superfluous, as all recreation could instead take place via neural interfaces which the members of the crew had inside their heads. He hypothesized, too, that the vessel could be operated with the same method, by crew members who might stay in their cabins while remotely operating the craft with the implants in their brains and with essentially floating tactile interfaces which surrounded the user and were built-in, similar to computer systems portrayed in such films as Minority Report and the Iron Man film series. He thought the ship might consequently be self-aware and jokingly suggested that, instead of featuring a bridge aboard the ship, the craft might contain just a room with a toilet. However, he conceded that wouldn't be very interesting for audiences to watch. "If there are consoles and there are [more traditional] interfaces, we're doing it basically because it's a legacy thing," he reckoned. "You may be doing all the interfacing with the ship in your head, but it would probably be more fun to sit at a console." He also speculated that the interior of the ship, which he didn't approve of, was actually built for Archer, just so he could relate to it, and that the craft might be capable of communicating through time. "But the number one purpose of the ship is... exploration, and exploration of the universe and ourselves; the more we learn about the universe, the more we know about ourselves, and that's the mission of the ship," Drexler mused.
When interviewed years after ENT finished, Doug Drexler was welcoming of fan theories regarding the Enterprise-J but also conceded, "I think probably anything anyone has thought of is not advanced enough." Though Drexler has heard some Star Trek fans complain that the struts were too spindly to support the ship's nacelles, Drexler rejected that criticism. As for the other theories about the vessel, he concluded, "I would love to see, you know, these really far out ideas for the Enterprise-J be what it's all about, but I think that if we did it, it probably would have been pulled back a little more. You know?"
I agree with what he says, there. If someone goes, "That's ridiculous/impossible!" then the writer/designer did their jobs well.
I also feel that adding kibble to the surfaces, or making them dirty makes them seem far less advanced. I also like to think the TOS ship hulls were self luminated, hence why we saw no spot lights.
Star Trek starships are only grungy if they miss that all important baryon sweep.
Regarding hull plate colors, I prefer the pearlescent Starfleet Clean look of the TMP Constitution over the gunmetal grey. Though I appreciate ones mileage varies on that point.
Yep, I like a smooth, clean, sleek look myself. Pity the pearlescent look was ruined in later stories.....
Pike is contracted for all 13 Episodes of the 2nd Season.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
That's in my opinion where the whole misery started. "Explaining" things that don't need explanations with ludicrous reasons to simulate 'depth' is somethimg that really hurts the whole. I sincerly hope DSC does not attempt to adress why they reinvented Klingons in-universe.
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That's a fair point. Hand to Gawd, I hope they don't do that either.
If the "pheromone receptors" are "fanfiction" than the legitimacy of Star Trek:Discovery is called into question. Which is silly. The Klingons have been retconned, again. Everyone has pointed out there is precedent for this so "no one should be surprised" that a "villain of the week" was remastered "George Lucas" style to appeal to a modern audience.
You are wrong.
Star Trek is a fictional universe. We cannot make any assumptions about the blatantly fictional parts. It is the job of the creator to do that. It is called "world building". The audience should not have to make up their own fiction to fill in blanks left in the author's story or setting.
This is especially true for Star Trek: Discovery as the cast have established that they are deliberately changing portions of the setting to "modernize" Star Trek for a new audience. This is why cast interviews are important to give context to the changes they made on-screen. Personally, I think that Season One needed an episode to flesh out our Klingon antagonists and give them some traits beyond "liar" and "murderer". Well developed antagonists improve any story tremendously.
My character Tsin'xing
Give me a timestamp to where these skulls appeared onscreen. Because until they do it's not canon. And are you blind, there's no holes (beyond the standard five), only pitted ridges.
Incorrect. Until the 'pheromone receptors' are referenced onscreen then they remain non-canon.
Incorrect. If it's onscreen it happened. Even if it's contradictory. So Klingons remain as always having had hair. It really is that simple.
Looks like patrickngo has a broken irony meter. Some people can be so bluntly dogmatic despite having not a shred of support from the show itself. Laughable
We're all still waiting on that source you have that proves CBS have changed their canon policy.
Next to the NX Alpha as well.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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My character Tsin'xing
irony + humor
"How did you get in here?"
"I am Koloth."
"That doesn't answer my question."
"Yes, it does."
– Odo and Koloth, 2370 ("Blood Oath")
Worf doesn't, but I think it was somehow damaged during the Romulan attack on Camp Khitomer.
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Seems like the Disco designers are trying to compensate for some personal.....shortcomings, shall we say?
And Disco seems to have a fetish for grungy looking ships.....
And yet we seen so many shots of the exposed interiors of the saucer, showing only 2 decks. JJ and the others pretty much took the model and blew it up to double size, and not stop to think of details. The bridge module is HUGE.....if it was kept the original size, THEN put on the saucer, it would be more believable.
> artan42 wrote: »
>
> markhawkman wrote: »
>
> Or when Artan starts talking about canon policy...
>
>
>
> We're all still waiting on that source you have that proves CBS have changed their canon policy.
>
>
>
> you mean OTHER than their website, which you reject because you prefer an out-of-date version only accessible by the internet wayback machine...
You mean the "outdated" policy which was reinforced quite recently by Discovery's writers?
It is one thing to discuss the canon itself, but fighting over the definition seems nonsensical. It's simply the base line that should exist when talking about this so all are on the same page, then talk opinions. But claiming everything/nothing/onlywhatilike is canon doesn't help.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
petty much
Also... the gunmetal grey is a better leadup to the more grey hulls of TMP and TNG than the white, clean hulls of TOS. I kinda like the gunmetal grey. Makes it feel a bit more real to me. Like something that's seen action. Not something that just came out of the shipyard all sparkly clean and polished like a sports car.
Its a working ship. Not a display model.
Also a few of the changes to the Discovery Connie kinda address a few... structural issues in the TOS Connie. The nacelle pylons are wider, thus adding a bit more support, and the neck is a bit shorter and wider as well. She looks like she can take a hit better than her TOS counterpart, especially in those areas.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
And then compare the Discovery from 2001:
to the Discovery from 2010:
She went from stark white to a ruddy clay like color over time.
Also space isn't a TOTAL vacuum. There are particles and stuff floating around.
All of this fan crying about visuals being different from old series like TOS to new series like Discovery is just stupid. We have better tech now. Therefore we have more advanced looking ships and more detailed (and less human looking) aliens. We have zero reason to explain why the TOS Enterprise bridge looks like a Fisher Price toy compared to Discovery's bridge looking the way it does now.
However, there are a multitude of things in normal space, from small dust clouds to nebulae to micrometeroids to stellar flares, that could discolor a ship's hull. We have no idea what might be in subspace that could do that. And of course NCC-1031 got to travel through the interstellar mycelial network, and you know what mushrooms grow best in...
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Regarding hull plate colors, I prefer the pearlescent Starfleet Clean look of the TMP Constitution over the gunmetal grey. Though I appreciate ones mileage varies on that point.
Yet the TOS connie took nuclear explosions at close range, Doomsday Machine fire, and such and held up well, despite the slimmer build.
To me, an advanced civilization, even a few centuries beyond ours would look 'magical' or impossible.
Here's some stuff from Doug Drexler about the Enterprise J:
Doug Drexler had estimated the length of this vessel as being about two miles. "I don't think it's that large [in the scheme of things], really. I run into this a lot on the internet, where people freak out. They say, 'Two miles?! That's absurd!' But if you are a reader of science fiction and you don't just watch science fiction on television," Drexler said, with a laugh, "you'll know that huge, enormous ships is not a strange thing; I mean, there are ships that are many times bigger than that. And even in the Star Trek universe, we've seen alien races that can build machines like a Dyson sphere, for instance. Two miles seems like a lot in Star Trek terms, but the whole idea is that the J is supposed to be, you know, [from] a far-flung future date, so that means you've gotta stretch things to the point where people are going, 'That's ridiculous!' because that's what makes it futuristic, is it's hard to believe."
Doug Drexler was extremely doubtful that the layout of the craft would include a traditional-looking bridge. He thought the ship's computations wouldn't be done via bio-mimetic gel packs or anything similar to those. "For all we know, the ship is using, you know, the synapses of every person aboard the ship to do its computations," he speculated. Drexler thought the vessel wouldn't include any holodecks, since they would be deemed superfluous, as all recreation could instead take place via neural interfaces which the members of the crew had inside their heads. He hypothesized, too, that the vessel could be operated with the same method, by crew members who might stay in their cabins while remotely operating the craft with the implants in their brains and with essentially floating tactile interfaces which surrounded the user and were built-in, similar to computer systems portrayed in such films as Minority Report and the Iron Man film series. He thought the ship might consequently be self-aware and jokingly suggested that, instead of featuring a bridge aboard the ship, the craft might contain just a room with a toilet. However, he conceded that wouldn't be very interesting for audiences to watch. "If there are consoles and there are [more traditional] interfaces, we're doing it basically because it's a legacy thing," he reckoned. "You may be doing all the interfacing with the ship in your head, but it would probably be more fun to sit at a console." He also speculated that the interior of the ship, which he didn't approve of, was actually built for Archer, just so he could relate to it, and that the craft might be capable of communicating through time. "But the number one purpose of the ship is... exploration, and exploration of the universe and ourselves; the more we learn about the universe, the more we know about ourselves, and that's the mission of the ship," Drexler mused.
When interviewed years after ENT finished, Doug Drexler was welcoming of fan theories regarding the Enterprise-J but also conceded, "I think probably anything anyone has thought of is not advanced enough." Though Drexler has heard some Star Trek fans complain that the struts were too spindly to support the ship's nacelles, Drexler rejected that criticism. As for the other theories about the vessel, he concluded, "I would love to see, you know, these really far out ideas for the Enterprise-J be what it's all about, but I think that if we did it, it probably would have been pulled back a little more. You know?"
I agree with what he says, there. If someone goes, "That's ridiculous/impossible!" then the writer/designer did their jobs well.
I also feel that adding kibble to the surfaces, or making them dirty makes them seem far less advanced. I also like to think the TOS ship hulls were self luminated, hence why we saw no spot lights.
Yep, I like a smooth, clean, sleek look myself. Pity the pearlescent look was ruined in later stories.....
in the movie, when they are boarding Discovery, they actually wipe away some of the 'dirt' from the airlock latch
its been awhile since I have seen it though
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'