> @jcsww said:
> ncc42662 wrote: »
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> andycman wrote: »
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> Get Sisko! His last words in ds9 were practically "I'll be back" and his baseball still sits on his desk to this day. Above everything I think this would be the most significant event if it were to happen...
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> Who says he's not? Sisko could very well (and I somewhat suspect) return from The Prophets for a major Bajor affecting event.
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> I would be really surprised to see Sisko voiced. That guy is too looney for even Shatner to put up with. :P
Brooks hasn't worked as an actor since 2006, and his mental instability is well known, nobody is hiring him, and that isn't likely to change.
When did you become a Prophet and counsellor azrael?
"Great men are not peacemakers, Great men are conquerors!" - Captain Archer" "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway #Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
Doubtful, remember that typical Jem'Hadar don't last much beyond 15 years if they make it that far at all, there are exceptions to the rule with a few who live longer than that.
I believe that the short life expectancy of a Jem'Hadar is nothing to do with their natural longevity, but rather, being constantly in hazardous situations as front line soldiers.
Basically, they're always being killed off in combat before they have a chance to experience what true old age is.
If a Jem'Hadar wasn't in dangerous combat on a daily basis, say, in a research facility or a holding cell, then I'd expect it would be discovered that they live just as long as everyone else.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Doubtful, remember that typical Jem'Hadar don't last much beyond 15 years if they make it that far at all, there are exceptions to the rule with a few who live longer than that.
I believe that the short life expectancy of a Jem'Hadar is nothing to do with their natural longevity, but rather, being constantly in hazardous situations as front line soldiers.
Basically, they're always being killed off in combat before they have a chance to experience what true old age is.
If a Jem'Hadar wasn't in dangerous combat on a daily basis, say, in a research facility or a holding cell, then I'd expect it would be discovered that they live just as long as everyone else.
this is, in fact, canon as far as STO's concerned - see: Brushfire and the jem'hadar that was being held captive there since the end of the dominion war
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Doubtful, remember that typical Jem'Hadar don't last much beyond 15 years if they make it that far at all, there are exceptions to the rule with a few who live longer than that.
I believe that the short life expectancy of a Jem'Hadar is nothing to do with their natural longevity, but rather, being constantly in hazardous situations as front line soldiers.
Basically, they're always being killed off in combat before they have a chance to experience what true old age is.
If a Jem'Hadar wasn't in dangerous combat on a daily basis, say, in a research facility or a holding cell, then I'd expect it would be discovered that they live just as long as everyone else.
this is, in fact, canon as far as STO's concerned - see: Brushfire and the jem'hadar that was being held captive there since the end of the dominion war
Wasn't there a Jem'Hadar Elder in an episode of DS9? That episode also mentioned that it was extremely rare for them to live to that status.
I am quite amused by all the butthurt going down here. Let's shed our preconceptions and look at what we know about the expansions current development status; it's early. VERY early. They have six out of ten actors confirmed. Yeah, they're counting on the rest, but they don't have them billed yet. That should tell you the expansion is still in a rather preliminary status as yet. Details are subject to change, and your feedback will matter, but stop acting as though everything in this expansion is already set in stone - wait and see. When it gets to May and you still don't like what you see, then it may be panic time.
NOW, my own thoughts and hopes.
If all we get in this new faction really IS Jem'hadar, I very well might give serious thought to not bothering at all, barring account-wide benefits like we got with the character recruitment periods. I have no interest whatsovever in Jem'hadar boffs, much less characters. Even with their complexities and particulars and surprising tendencies, they aren't terribly interesting as people. My characters have to be actual characters. For me, they each have to come alive in my mind - if they don't, sooner or later, they get deleted. Jem'hadar just don't have enough personality.
Vorta, on the other hand, have definite personalities. Quite colorful personalities, in fact - think back to Iggy Pop's Yelgrun in "The Magnificent Ferengi." I actually already have two Vorta/alien characters, one with a backstory I wrote when I made her three years ago that ties into current events quite well. I'd love the chance to create real Vorta characters! Maybe even Cardassians, too, but what I hear makes me think this "faction" starts in the GQ - don't think the Dominion expatriated any Cardassians to the other side of "the Anomaly."
There was a little talk as to perhaps having these Jem'hadar characters starting out in the original Dominion War, which sparked discussions into Jem'hadar longevity - an interesting topic to be sure, but there is already a way around that - "Second Wave." It would be quite interesting to play the other side of that mission, don't you think?
Also, people keep stating that all canon Jem'hadar ships are already available to players. That simply isn't correct - we still don't have a playable Jem Battleship, which I think is actually the best-looking of all the Jem'hadar designs.
Doubtful, remember that typical Jem'Hadar don't last much beyond 15 years if they make it that far at all, there are exceptions to the rule with a few who live longer than that.
I believe that the short life expectancy of a Jem'Hadar is nothing to do with their natural longevity, but rather, being constantly in hazardous situations as front line soldiers.
Basically, they're always being killed off in combat before they have a chance to experience what true old age is.
If a Jem'Hadar wasn't in dangerous combat on a daily basis, say, in a research facility or a holding cell, then I'd expect it would be discovered that they live just as long as everyone else.
this is, in fact, canon as far as STO's concerned - see: Brushfire and the jem'hadar that was being held captive there since the end of the dominion war
Wasn't there a Jem'Hadar Elder in an episode of DS9? That episode also mentioned that it was extremely rare for them to live to that status.
there was more than one, but i think only one was actually named - as as mentioned above, the only reason they barely live to 20 to be able to obtain the title of 'honored elder' (which by the way, is probably going to be the JH faction equivalent of Fleet Admiral) is because the jem'hadar are literal cannon fodder
which is why the one imprisoned in the son'a prison was still alive when we showed up almost 40 years after the fact - they don't have a naturally short lifespan (unlike ocampa who really DO only live to 9 years - and only ever have one child, so a totally unsustainable population, but that's for a different thread), it's just so damn violent they barely live longer than 3 years
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
If a Jem'Hadar wasn't in dangerous combat on a daily basis, say, in a research facility or a holding cell, then I'd expect it would be discovered that they live just as long as everyone else.
Well, this most certainly requires some explaining on your part.
Doubtful, remember that typical Jem'Hadar don't last much beyond 15 years if they make it that far at all, there are exceptions to the rule with a few who live longer than that.
I believe that the short life expectancy of a Jem'Hadar is nothing to do with their natural longevity, but rather, being constantly in hazardous situations as front line soldiers.
Basically, they're always being killed off in combat before they have a chance to experience what true old age is.
If a Jem'Hadar wasn't in dangerous combat on a daily basis, say, in a research facility or a holding cell, then I'd expect it would be discovered that they live just as long as everyone else.
this is, in fact, canon as far as STO's concerned - see: Brushfire and the jem'hadar that was being held captive there since the end of the dominion war
One exception doesn't make it a fact and in addition the Jem'Hadar was being aided by Metaphasic radiation. Also who knows what Torg was doing to that Jem'Hadar in the meantime. Some elaboration is required on your end.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I am quite amused by all the butthurt going down here. Let's shed our preconceptions and look at what we know about the expansions current development status; it's early. VERY early. They have six out of ten actors confirmed. Yeah, they're counting on the rest, but they don't have them billed yet. That should tell you the expansion is still in a rather preliminary status as yet. Details are subject to change, and your feedback will matter, but stop acting as though everything in this expansion is already set in stone - wait and see. When it gets to May and you still don't like what you see, then it may be panic time.
NOW, my own thoughts and hopes.
If all we get in this new faction really IS Jem'hadar, I very well might give serious thought to not bothering at all, barring account-wide benefits like we got with the character recruitment periods. I have no interest whatsovever in Jem'hadar boffs, much less characters. Even with their complexities and particulars and surprising tendencies, they aren't terribly interesting as people. My characters have to be actual characters. For me, they each have to come alive in my mind - if they don't, sooner or later, they get deleted. Jem'hadar just don't have enough personality.
Vorta, on the other hand, have definite personalities. Quite colorful personalities, in fact - think back to Iggy Pop's Yelgrun in "The Magnificent Ferengi." I actually already have two Vorta/alien characters, one with a backstory I wrote when I made her three years ago that ties into current events quite well. I'd love the chance to create real Vorta characters! Maybe even Cardassians, too, but what I hear makes me think this "faction" starts in the GQ - don't think the Dominion expatriated any Cardassians to the other side of "the Anomaly."
There was a little talk as to perhaps having these Jem'hadar characters starting out in the original Dominion War, which sparked discussions into Jem'hadar longevity - an interesting topic to be sure, but there is already a way around that - "Second Wave." It would be quite interesting to play the other side of that mission, don't you think?
Also, people keep stating that all canon Jem'hadar ships are already available to players. That simply isn't correct - we still don't have a playable Jem Battleship, which I think is actually the best-looking of all the Jem'hadar designs.
I wonder if there are going to be Alpha's and Gamma's. I would also like to see Breen added. The Jem'Hadar battleship would be an awesome addition to the game.
Also, people keep stating that all canon Jem'hadar ships are already available to players. That simply isn't correct - we still don't have a playable Jem Battleship, which I think is actually the best-looking of all the Jem'hadar designs.
That's my major hesitation when it comes to this faction, will the Jem'Hadar ships be made available to Jem'Hadar characters?
This is how we currently obtain them in Star Trek Online:
Given that it took me months of intensive EC collection to afford the Briostrys and the Tarantula, I don't even want to attempt to earn the amount of EC necessary to purchase a Strike Ship from exchange.
And I'd only purchase the Heavy Carrier if I obtained the Strike Ship, since my goal is to complete the 3 Console set and without the Strike Ship, this is impossible.
So if the Dominion ships aren't provided via a C-Store purchase, then most likely I'd just get the Dreadnaught and that would be the only ship I'd purchase.
From my perspective, it would make a playable Jem'Hadar less interesting if they were required to play the game using a Starfleet vessel, because then they'd be just like every other generic Starfleet Captain ingame, for space combat anyway.
I assume they'll have to be provided with some kind of ship to use in space, I don't think the game has the code structure in place to have a playable captain without a ship.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I'm hoping that the Jem'Hadar faction means that all current Jem'Hadar ships recieve an update. The Battlecruiser for example could certainly use one. I'm just reminded of what the Romulan Warbirds looked like before Legacy of Romulus. They look incredible now, so let's hope the Jem'Hadar get the same treatment. I always liked Dominion ships and a more canon accurate and playable Battlecruiser would be incredible. I personally think the Dreadnought could use a little update too...
According to the info I am reading, the Battlecruiser (our Dreadnaught) and Battleship are completely different designs of ships, despite their visual resemblance.
The main difference being that the Battleship is much larger.
If the Jem'Hadar faction does include C-Store purchasable Jem'Hadar vessels, then I predict players will create a Jem'Hadar for the simple fact they can acquire a Strike Ship/Recon Ship to avoid paying the exhorbitant prices on exchange.
So that might make their faction a popular playable choice for that reason alone.
Honestly, I prefer Jem'Hadar over Vorta.
Vorta do have many diverse interests, but they're ultimately untrustworthy.
The Jem'Hadar by contrast are honest and reliable.
There's even a line in a DS9 episode where Sisko asks the Jem'Hadar commander for his guarantee of safe conduct instead of the Vorta's, because he trusts Jem'Hadar and not Vortas.
And it has been shown a few times that if you underestimate the intelligence and independence of a Jem'Hadar, it is a serious mistake.
I am curious though, will Vorta playable characters have their psychokinetic blast power?
It seems that they never used that again in DS9 except for the first appearance of a Vorta.
It's as though they didn't want to remind the viewers that the Vorta had this ability.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I am curious though, will Vorta playable characters have their psychokinetic blast power?
It seems that they never used that again in DS9 except for the first appearance of a Vorta.
It's as though they didn't want to remind the viewers that the Vorta had this ability.
Alien captains can have the option to choose that trait. Eridian has been using it for years.
People of Bajor! I'm from the Dominion and I'm here to help!
According to the info, Psychokinetic is present on these playable species:
Federation: CA
Romulan: Reman, CA
Klingon: Lethean, CA
The thought does occur to me that a Vorta would make an ineffective ground soldier, because of their weak eyesight.
Doesn't using a ranged weapon depend on being able to see distant targets?
Since the Vorta are extremely short sighted, they'd need a targeting visor to compensate for their visual deficiency .
@markhawkman
I think that idea may have occurred to you, since I can see what appears to be some kind of visor in the image.
I am also wondering if Ketracel White will be able to be used by playable Jem'Hadar as a consumable.
Or if they'll make a new/different version that replaces Hypos for these characters.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
If they force a Jem'Hadar character to join the Feds, KDF, or Romulans. I sure hope there is an option to commit suicide so your Jem'Hadar can actually die with some form of dignity left.
The current Ketracel White item just boosts health for 10 minutes, it is not a replacement for hypos which need to be used fairly frequently in STF ground missions.
Which is why they'd need to make an all new version of Ketracel White if it was intended to use it in place of hyposprays, one that restored health per use.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Can we have a least a villain faction instead of all being on the side of good. I used to enjoy being a Klingon who would destroy all fed ships and was disappointing that I couldn't be a villainous Romulan working with the Tal Shiar. If I can't be a evil Jem hadar then may give the faction a miss
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Doubtful, remember that typical Jem'Hadar don't last much beyond 15 years if they make it that far at all, there are exceptions to the rule with a few who live longer than that.
I believe that the short life expectancy of a Jem'Hadar is nothing to do with their natural longevity, but rather, being constantly in hazardous situations as front line soldiers.
Basically, they're always being killed off in combat before they have a chance to experience what true old age is.
If a Jem'Hadar wasn't in dangerous combat on a daily basis, say, in a research facility or a holding cell, then I'd expect it would be discovered that they live just as long as everyone else.
this is, in fact, canon as far as STO's concerned - see: Brushfire and the jem'hadar that was being held captive there since the end of the dominion war
As long as he has access to ketracel white. Without it he would die. We only seen one Jem'hadar who could live without and it was because of a birth defect: his body was never addicted to the white.
Can we have a least a villain faction instead of all being on the side of good. I used to enjoy being a Klingon who would destroy all fed ships and was disappointing that I couldn't be a villainous Romulan working with the Tal Shiar. If I can't be a evil Jem hadar then may give the faction a miss
I completely agree! The added half of a faction Romulan's would have been a lot more fun and interesting if they had done this. This whole 5 level tenth of a faction Jem'Hadar is already disappointing with how little it is actually going to bring to the game. 5 whole levels before being shoved into the Feds or KDF. By the sound of it. It's basically just going to be like the old 5 episode FE's except with a new almost max level character race to get everyone to go back and repeat all of the rep grinds, DOff grinds, and so on.
As long as he has access to ketracel white. Without it he would die. We only seen one Jem'hadar who could live without and it was because of a birth defect: his body was never addicted to the white.
I don't remember where it was mentioned, but the Sona have the ability to manufacture Ketracel White, the only group outside of the Dominion who can do this.
Which is why the Dominion wanted them as allies when their Ketracel White facility was destroyed during the war, to provide an alternate/replacement source of the chemical.
Since this is a Sona prison facility, I assume there had to be a Sona Ketracel White production room somewhere that they were using to keep their Jem'Hadar prisoner alive.
There are just too many drawbacks to creating a playable enemy faction, they'd wouldn't be able to team for STFs, they'd be unable to join established fleets, resulting in having to build an entirely new fleet base/subholdings from zero progression, they couldn't visit major social hubs because they have no recognised representation as an accepted power base. That's why it won't happen.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
i think it would be nice to see a resurgance of some plasma sets since plasma dosnt have alot of good sets compaired to phaser and disruptor sets, throw a romulan a bone would love to see some more plasma showing up in victory is life.
The only issue is someone has got their lore really wrong of late; Kahless never had anything to do with the Hur'Q. He fought the Fek'lhri. The Hur'Q came much later on, well after the empire was established.
Untrue.
It was explicitly established back in DS9 that the Hur'q attacked 1,000 years ago. However, Trek canon has been contradictory about its placement of Kahless's lifetime, with some accounts stating it was 1,000 years ago, and others stating it was 1,500 years ago.
Cryptic just took the one of the two contradictory accounts that better fitted the narrative they wanted, which is the 1,000 years ago one, which would place Kahless at the time of the Hur'q, and the Hur'q's attack around the founding of the Empire. It still fits the lore, since the lore itself stated Kahless lived 1,000 years ago itself more then once.
Apologies all for going off topic; if you are reading the thread for the actual point, skip to the next post. But, I've got to address it now this person thinks dragging his misunderstanding into criticising someone else; when he did it earlier in the thread I realised it was him and decided it wasn't worth my time.
First off, none of this will make sense without reading the original thread: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1238327/kahless-and-the-hurq/p1
It is also worth noting that I hadn't noticed that this same person who once again is out claiming Klingon history is self-contradictory is both the OP and the person I was debating until I realised part way down, a mistake I don't make twice.
Now:
Let's look at Federation obtained evidence ONLY, so that this doesn't devolve into farcical humanocentrism like your thread on the subject did, where you and a bunch of others wanted to pretend that Klingon history is nothing but a fabricated set of myths fabricated to mythologise history.
Jadzia Dax, Trill, Starfleet Science Officer, dates the sword to being 1400 years old by dating metallic particles left on the shroud of the sword, as recovered by Vulcans.{2} (Sadly, it wasn't dated by Data, as if it had, he would have given it far more exactly; of course, in an earlier script of TNG "Rightful Heir", he did state when Kahless died, as 1547 years before 2369; but as your circle-jerking friends will immediately point out no doubt, this was cut content, which is why this section is in brackets, as all I can point out with this is what timeframe the writers intended with a quotation from a character who did not round his numbers to the nearest decade, let alone millennium)
This alone is sufficient to prove that the original Kahless - to short-circuit most of the circle-jerking from that thread - was around 1400 years ago.
Testimony from the Klingons themselves is a 15 centuries figure from the monks on Boreth.{1}
Worf exclaims "A thousand years ago, the dawn of the Empire, five hundred warriors storm the Great Hall at Qam-Chee."{4}
Worf states: "With it he [Kahless] slew Molor, conquered the Fek'Ihri and forged the first Empire."{2}
Worf, Kor and Dax discussing the age of Kahless' sword all happy to say a thousand years, despite the fact it has already been dated to be older, in this very episode.{2}
Worf, serving onboard a Klingon ship speaking in an officer's log report, citing "The fifty third day in the year of Kahless nine ninety nine".{3}
The logical conclusion is same period of time, expressed in two different measurements.
And if in doubt, it has already been established that the true situation is closer to the older figure by virtue of dating a weapon found with Hur'q blood on it at 1400 years. (although, being a melee weapon that is shown on screen as still being battle-worthy, there is not enough evidence to rule out some Hur'q thief centuries later getting cut and therefore leaving DNA from mishandling the weapon)
Your logic only works if a joined-Trill Starfleet science officer is too incompetent to use a Starfleet laboratory properly; a laboratory that features massively advanced sensors, including the capacity to not only tell what time an object was from, but which quantum reality it is from, meaning there is very little margin to assume Jadzia could ID it wrong. And the joined-Trill factor is very significant, as a previous host formed numerous important connections to Klingons, one of which being a crucial plot point of the episode, which if anything would bias the reporter to give the - and yet again, I'll pre-empt the circle-jerking - "correct" figure of over 1500 years. Not 1400 years.
And there is no point appealing to the writers of STO here, when their inaccuracy is the whole problem - these are people who have systemically displayed bias against Klingons in gameplay, and have gotten Klingon lore wrong repeatedly, as has been detailed numerous times on this forum by fans of Klingons.
My premise is that these two are different calendars tracking the same length of time - the most rational way to read it.
Your side however, decided from the outset that Klingons were unreliable about their own history, which makes it nonsensical for you to say anything about trying to determine a canonical time as none of the evidence you'll actually allow. (given none of you actually addressed the point I made about Jadia's dating of the sword in the older thread)
Your thread opened with claiming Kahless' time of living was varied because you humanocentrically decided arbitrarily that Klingon years must be the same as earth years, when there are many reasonable alternatives, such as differing orbital periods (and it is worth noting that a gap of 4-500 years between two planets that are both in the habitable region of a star is not significant) or the Year of Kahless being a socio-religious calendar that does not correlate with the orbital period while still tracking time as an absolute with the result being both calendars are correct in amount of time passed.
The first response was in jest; by the second, the circle-jerking started with claiming the Klingons mythologised the lot. The next poster takes the best way to interpret the dataset that STO itself adds to the known information - the Fek'lhri being a Hur'q force sent in to occupy the world, with the Hur'q themselves not directly getting involved for another 5 centuries. Of the remaining posters who posted to the thread, nearly all of them were hostile to even considering the possibility of reconciling the information, instead desiring to just throw it all out as mythology.
And I shouldn't have to point this out, but if you are going to claim the whole lot is mythology, you really have no place talking about a "canon" age to be accepted.
A conclusive link between the Hur'q and the Fek'lhri is not established in any STO-canon source apart from STO itself, and the data presented in STO up to this point - no doubt Victory is Life will expand on this - fits both the premise that the Fek'lhri were some sort of infantry within the 1000 absolute-year timeline and the alternative premise that the Fek'lhri were pawns of the Hur'q who were placed on Qo'noS ~1500 absolute-years, and therefore centuries before the direct Hur'q attack, which is accepted by everyone to be 1000 absolute-years ago.
It is also vitally important to understand that "Hur'q" is a Klingon word for "outsider", which I remain to be convinced is actually understood...
It is also to be remembered that STO's Fek'lhri conducting the 2409 attack that the player faces may well have been an Iconian, Hur'q or some alliance of the two, ploy to reuse the ancient enemies of the Klingons in an effort to induce fear in them, although neither had anything to do with the original Fek'lhri 1400+ absolute-years previously.
Your premise - some claims are Kahless lived 1500 years ago, others are Kahless lived a 1000 years ago; these two are contradictory, and so Cryptic have gone with what they want to have in order to make their story make sense.
My premise - these are two different calendars that track the same amount of time, a period of at least 1400 years as established by a Starfleet, not KDF, officer; Cryptic have simply got the pre-existing lore wrong, as they have done repeatedly in the past.
To drag this post vaguely back to topic; in STO canon, whether it should be or not, the 1000 year ago position is accepted by Cryptic; obviously, I am against that.
I'm going to guess VIL will substantiate the Hur'q/2409 Fek'lhri link further, and by virtue of the accepted timeline, the link between Hur'q/Fek'lhri of the earlier time.
i think it would be nice to see a resurgance of some plasma sets since plasma dosnt have alot of good sets compaired to phaser and disruptor sets, throw a romulan a bone would love to see some more plasma showing up in victory is life.
I too am a fan of Plasma weapons and wish they got more then they did.
But considering Dominion's favorite flavor is Polaron, there will not be anything for plasma to be found here:
i think it would be nice to see a resurgance of some plasma sets since plasma dosnt have alot of good sets compaired to phaser and disruptor sets, throw a romulan a bone would love to see some more plasma showing up in victory is life.
I too am a fan of Plasma weapons and wish they got more then they did.
But considering Dominion's favorite flavor is Polaron, there will not be anything for plasma to be found here:
I have builds for every weapon type. Plasma weapons are definitely a lot of fun and can be viable. They just aren't as good as most of the other weapon types though. Hopefully the long awaited Borg lock box with a Cube, Sphere, or whatever they shove in it also yields some redeeming Plasma weapons.
Comments
When did you become a Prophet and counsellor azrael?
"When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." - Captain Janeway
#Support Mirror Universe I.S.S. Prefixes
I believe that the short life expectancy of a Jem'Hadar is nothing to do with their natural longevity, but rather, being constantly in hazardous situations as front line soldiers.
Basically, they're always being killed off in combat before they have a chance to experience what true old age is.
If a Jem'Hadar wasn't in dangerous combat on a daily basis, say, in a research facility or a holding cell, then I'd expect it would be discovered that they live just as long as everyone else.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
this is, in fact, canon as far as STO's concerned - see: Brushfire and the jem'hadar that was being held captive there since the end of the dominion war
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Wasn't there a Jem'Hadar Elder in an episode of DS9? That episode also mentioned that it was extremely rare for them to live to that status.
I am quite amused by all the butthurt going down here. Let's shed our preconceptions and look at what we know about the expansions current development status; it's early. VERY early. They have six out of ten actors confirmed. Yeah, they're counting on the rest, but they don't have them billed yet. That should tell you the expansion is still in a rather preliminary status as yet. Details are subject to change, and your feedback will matter, but stop acting as though everything in this expansion is already set in stone - wait and see. When it gets to May and you still don't like what you see, then it may be panic time.
NOW, my own thoughts and hopes.
If all we get in this new faction really IS Jem'hadar, I very well might give serious thought to not bothering at all, barring account-wide benefits like we got with the character recruitment periods. I have no interest whatsovever in Jem'hadar boffs, much less characters. Even with their complexities and particulars and surprising tendencies, they aren't terribly interesting as people. My characters have to be actual characters. For me, they each have to come alive in my mind - if they don't, sooner or later, they get deleted. Jem'hadar just don't have enough personality.
Vorta, on the other hand, have definite personalities. Quite colorful personalities, in fact - think back to Iggy Pop's Yelgrun in "The Magnificent Ferengi." I actually already have two Vorta/alien characters, one with a backstory I wrote when I made her three years ago that ties into current events quite well. I'd love the chance to create real Vorta characters! Maybe even Cardassians, too, but what I hear makes me think this "faction" starts in the GQ - don't think the Dominion expatriated any Cardassians to the other side of "the Anomaly."
There was a little talk as to perhaps having these Jem'hadar characters starting out in the original Dominion War, which sparked discussions into Jem'hadar longevity - an interesting topic to be sure, but there is already a way around that - "Second Wave." It would be quite interesting to play the other side of that mission, don't you think?
Also, people keep stating that all canon Jem'hadar ships are already available to players. That simply isn't correct - we still don't have a playable Jem Battleship, which I think is actually the best-looking of all the Jem'hadar designs.
there was more than one, but i think only one was actually named - as as mentioned above, the only reason they barely live to 20 to be able to obtain the title of 'honored elder' (which by the way, is probably going to be the JH faction equivalent of Fleet Admiral) is because the jem'hadar are literal cannon fodder
which is why the one imprisoned in the son'a prison was still alive when we showed up almost 40 years after the fact - they don't have a naturally short lifespan (unlike ocampa who really DO only live to 9 years - and only ever have one child, so a totally unsustainable population, but that's for a different thread), it's just so damn violent they barely live longer than 3 years
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Well, this most certainly requires some explaining on your part.
One exception doesn't make it a fact and in addition the Jem'Hadar was being aided by Metaphasic radiation. Also who knows what Torg was doing to that Jem'Hadar in the meantime. Some elaboration is required on your end.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I wonder if there are going to be Alpha's and Gamma's. I would also like to see Breen added. The Jem'Hadar battleship would be an awesome addition to the game.
That's my major hesitation when it comes to this faction, will the Jem'Hadar ships be made available to Jem'Hadar characters?
This is how we currently obtain them in Star Trek Online:
Given that it took me months of intensive EC collection to afford the Briostrys and the Tarantula, I don't even want to attempt to earn the amount of EC necessary to purchase a Strike Ship from exchange.
And I'd only purchase the Heavy Carrier if I obtained the Strike Ship, since my goal is to complete the 3 Console set and without the Strike Ship, this is impossible.
So if the Dominion ships aren't provided via a C-Store purchase, then most likely I'd just get the Dreadnaught and that would be the only ship I'd purchase.
From my perspective, it would make a playable Jem'Hadar less interesting if they were required to play the game using a Starfleet vessel, because then they'd be just like every other generic Starfleet Captain ingame, for space combat anyway.
I assume they'll have to be provided with some kind of ship to use in space, I don't think the game has the code structure in place to have a playable captain without a ship.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
The main difference being that the Battleship is much larger.
If the Jem'Hadar faction does include C-Store purchasable Jem'Hadar vessels, then I predict players will create a Jem'Hadar for the simple fact they can acquire a Strike Ship/Recon Ship to avoid paying the exhorbitant prices on exchange.
So that might make their faction a popular playable choice for that reason alone.
Honestly, I prefer Jem'Hadar over Vorta.
Vorta do have many diverse interests, but they're ultimately untrustworthy.
The Jem'Hadar by contrast are honest and reliable.
There's even a line in a DS9 episode where Sisko asks the Jem'Hadar commander for his guarantee of safe conduct instead of the Vorta's, because he trusts Jem'Hadar and not Vortas.
And it has been shown a few times that if you underestimate the intelligence and independence of a Jem'Hadar, it is a serious mistake.
I am curious though, will Vorta playable characters have their psychokinetic blast power?
It seems that they never used that again in DS9 except for the first appearance of a Vorta.
It's as though they didn't want to remind the viewers that the Vorta had this ability.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
People of Bajor! I'm from the Dominion and I'm here to help!
My character Tsin'xing
The thought does occur to me that a Vorta would make an ineffective ground soldier, because of their weak eyesight.
Doesn't using a ranged weapon depend on being able to see distant targets?
Since the Vorta are extremely short sighted, they'd need a targeting visor to compensate for their visual deficiency .
@markhawkman
I think that idea may have occurred to you, since I can see what appears to be some kind of visor in the image.
I am also wondering if Ketracel White will be able to be used by playable Jem'Hadar as a consumable.
Or if they'll make a new/different version that replaces Hypos for these characters.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
My character Tsin'xing
Which is why they'd need to make an all new version of Ketracel White if it was intended to use it in place of hyposprays, one that restored health per use.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As long as he has access to ketracel white. Without it he would die. We only seen one Jem'hadar who could live without and it was because of a birth defect: his body was never addicted to the white.
I completely agree! The added half of a faction Romulan's would have been a lot more fun and interesting if they had done this. This whole 5 level tenth of a faction Jem'Hadar is already disappointing with how little it is actually going to bring to the game. 5 whole levels before being shoved into the Feds or KDF. By the sound of it. It's basically just going to be like the old 5 episode FE's except with a new almost max level character race to get everyone to go back and repeat all of the rep grinds, DOff grinds, and so on.
I don't remember where it was mentioned, but the Sona have the ability to manufacture Ketracel White, the only group outside of the Dominion who can do this.
Which is why the Dominion wanted them as allies when their Ketracel White facility was destroyed during the war, to provide an alternate/replacement source of the chemical.
Since this is a Sona prison facility, I assume there had to be a Sona Ketracel White production room somewhere that they were using to keep their Jem'Hadar prisoner alive.
There are just too many drawbacks to creating a playable enemy faction, they'd wouldn't be able to team for STFs, they'd be unable to join established fleets, resulting in having to build an entirely new fleet base/subholdings from zero progression, they couldn't visit major social hubs because they have no recognised representation as an accepted power base.
That's why it won't happen.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
Apologies all for going off topic; if you are reading the thread for the actual point, skip to the next post. But, I've got to address it now this person thinks dragging his misunderstanding into criticising someone else; when he did it earlier in the thread I realised it was him and decided it wasn't worth my time.
First off, none of this will make sense without reading the original thread: https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1238327/kahless-and-the-hurq/p1
It is also worth noting that I hadn't noticed that this same person who once again is out claiming Klingon history is self-contradictory is both the OP and the person I was debating until I realised part way down, a mistake I don't make twice.
Now:
Let's look at Federation obtained evidence ONLY, so that this doesn't devolve into farcical humanocentrism like your thread on the subject did, where you and a bunch of others wanted to pretend that Klingon history is nothing but a fabricated set of myths fabricated to mythologise history.
Jadzia Dax, Trill, Starfleet Science Officer, dates the sword to being 1400 years old by dating metallic particles left on the shroud of the sword, as recovered by Vulcans.{2} (Sadly, it wasn't dated by Data, as if it had, he would have given it far more exactly; of course, in an earlier script of TNG "Rightful Heir", he did state when Kahless died, as 1547 years before 2369; but as your circle-jerking friends will immediately point out no doubt, this was cut content, which is why this section is in brackets, as all I can point out with this is what timeframe the writers intended with a quotation from a character who did not round his numbers to the nearest decade, let alone millennium)
This alone is sufficient to prove that the original Kahless - to short-circuit most of the circle-jerking from that thread - was around 1400 years ago.
Testimony from the Klingons themselves is a 15 centuries figure from the monks on Boreth.{1}
Worf exclaims "A thousand years ago, the dawn of the Empire, five hundred warriors storm the Great Hall at Qam-Chee."{4}
Worf states: "With it he [Kahless] slew Molor, conquered the Fek'Ihri and forged the first Empire."{2}
Worf, Kor and Dax discussing the age of Kahless' sword all happy to say a thousand years, despite the fact it has already been dated to be older, in this very episode.{2}
Worf, serving onboard a Klingon ship speaking in an officer's log report, citing "The fifty third day in the year of Kahless nine ninety nine".{3}
The logical conclusion is same period of time, expressed in two different measurements.
And if in doubt, it has already been established that the true situation is closer to the older figure by virtue of dating a weapon found with Hur'q blood on it at 1400 years. (although, being a melee weapon that is shown on screen as still being battle-worthy, there is not enough evidence to rule out some Hur'q thief centuries later getting cut and therefore leaving DNA from mishandling the weapon)
Your logic only works if a joined-Trill Starfleet science officer is too incompetent to use a Starfleet laboratory properly; a laboratory that features massively advanced sensors, including the capacity to not only tell what time an object was from, but which quantum reality it is from, meaning there is very little margin to assume Jadzia could ID it wrong. And the joined-Trill factor is very significant, as a previous host formed numerous important connections to Klingons, one of which being a crucial plot point of the episode, which if anything would bias the reporter to give the - and yet again, I'll pre-empt the circle-jerking - "correct" figure of over 1500 years. Not 1400 years.
And there is no point appealing to the writers of STO here, when their inaccuracy is the whole problem - these are people who have systemically displayed bias against Klingons in gameplay, and have gotten Klingon lore wrong repeatedly, as has been detailed numerous times on this forum by fans of Klingons.
My premise is that these two are different calendars tracking the same length of time - the most rational way to read it.
Your side however, decided from the outset that Klingons were unreliable about their own history, which makes it nonsensical for you to say anything about trying to determine a canonical time as none of the evidence you'll actually allow. (given none of you actually addressed the point I made about Jadia's dating of the sword in the older thread)
Your thread opened with claiming Kahless' time of living was varied because you humanocentrically decided arbitrarily that Klingon years must be the same as earth years, when there are many reasonable alternatives, such as differing orbital periods (and it is worth noting that a gap of 4-500 years between two planets that are both in the habitable region of a star is not significant) or the Year of Kahless being a socio-religious calendar that does not correlate with the orbital period while still tracking time as an absolute with the result being both calendars are correct in amount of time passed.
The first response was in jest; by the second, the circle-jerking started with claiming the Klingons mythologised the lot. The next poster takes the best way to interpret the dataset that STO itself adds to the known information - the Fek'lhri being a Hur'q force sent in to occupy the world, with the Hur'q themselves not directly getting involved for another 5 centuries. Of the remaining posters who posted to the thread, nearly all of them were hostile to even considering the possibility of reconciling the information, instead desiring to just throw it all out as mythology.
And I shouldn't have to point this out, but if you are going to claim the whole lot is mythology, you really have no place talking about a "canon" age to be accepted.
A conclusive link between the Hur'q and the Fek'lhri is not established in any STO-canon source apart from STO itself, and the data presented in STO up to this point - no doubt Victory is Life will expand on this - fits both the premise that the Fek'lhri were some sort of infantry within the 1000 absolute-year timeline and the alternative premise that the Fek'lhri were pawns of the Hur'q who were placed on Qo'noS ~1500 absolute-years, and therefore centuries before the direct Hur'q attack, which is accepted by everyone to be 1000 absolute-years ago.
It is also vitally important to understand that "Hur'q" is a Klingon word for "outsider", which I remain to be convinced is actually understood...
It is also to be remembered that STO's Fek'lhri conducting the 2409 attack that the player faces may well have been an Iconian, Hur'q or some alliance of the two, ploy to reuse the ancient enemies of the Klingons in an effort to induce fear in them, although neither had anything to do with the original Fek'lhri 1400+ absolute-years previously.
Transcripts of relevant episodes:
1 - http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/249.htm
2 - http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/481.htm
3 - http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/519.htm
4 - http://www.chakoteya.net/DS9/501.htm
To restate:
Your premise - some claims are Kahless lived 1500 years ago, others are Kahless lived a 1000 years ago; these two are contradictory, and so Cryptic have gone with what they want to have in order to make their story make sense.
My premise - these are two different calendars that track the same amount of time, a period of at least 1400 years as established by a Starfleet, not KDF, officer; Cryptic have simply got the pre-existing lore wrong, as they have done repeatedly in the past.
To drag this post vaguely back to topic; in STO canon, whether it should be or not, the 1000 year ago position is accepted by Cryptic; obviously, I am against that.
I'm going to guess VIL will substantiate the Hur'q/2409 Fek'lhri link further, and by virtue of the accepted timeline, the link between Hur'q/Fek'lhri of the earlier time.
I too am a fan of Plasma weapons and wish they got more then they did.
But considering Dominion's favorite flavor is Polaron, there will not be anything for plasma to be found here:
Jem'Hadar Space Set
Dominon Polaron Beam Array
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I have builds for every weapon type. Plasma weapons are definitely a lot of fun and can be viable. They just aren't as good as most of the other weapon types though. Hopefully the long awaited Borg lock box with a Cube, Sphere, or whatever they shove in it also yields some redeeming Plasma weapons.
Like the Manticore for FED and Dinaes for ROM
ps. sorry i disnt read the whole post if ther was someone else who had that question
There is no free ship token for T6 ships for lifetime subscribers, so more than likely, no.