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Re-Engineering - Thoughts?

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  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    lopequil wrote: »
    @gaevsman Check you don’t have protection on and tell us what you’re trying to salvage as not everything can be.

    Ahh, I see, I was trying to salvage a purple Elachi weapon... didn't test it with other items, well I did, but most was reputation weapons, now I know that I have to test with other stuff
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,552 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Welcome to GAMBLING ONLINE....where no Star Trek has gone before...


    30340093061_jeux-machines-a-sous-gratuites-et-sans.jpg​​

    And if everyone got their way, this game would be an utter, utter disaster. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Nothing wrong with RNG in a game, even if you think it's all RNG. And lastly, once again, for old time's sake.....you are playing a FREE 20GB+ game!

    It's not wrong to want an actual game instead of an RNG love fest. RNG only goes so far to making a game and at some point you actually bring down the quality of a game by playing the numbers all the time.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • lopequillopequil Member Posts: 1,213 Arc User
    @gaevsman I tried it successfully with an Elachi DBB. Were you by any chance trying to re-roll on the ground weapon?
    Q9BWcdD.png
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,646 Arc User
    nimbull wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Welcome to GAMBLING ONLINE....where no Star Trek has gone before...


    30340093061_jeux-machines-a-sous-gratuites-et-sans.jpg​​

    And if everyone got their way, this game would be an utter, utter disaster. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Nothing wrong with RNG in a game, even if you think it's all RNG. And lastly, once again, for old time's sake.....you are playing a FREE 20GB+ game!

    It's not wrong to want an actual game instead of an RNG love fest. RNG only goes so far to making a game and at some point you actually bring down the quality of a game by playing the numbers all the time.

    True, but the attitude of some is that they should get their own way or it's unfair, for whatever reason. People got what they asked for, the ability to change mods. Cryptic did it this way for economic reasons, and I side with them. It nets them a small amount extra cash for those that buy Dil, which keeps the game running.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • lowestlvllowestlvl Member Posts: 656 Arc User
    simple. inflation just went up.
    There is no QA there is only ZUUL
    called out the bs and got BANNED. and i would gladly do it again.
  • berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,448 Arc User
    How would I see the Trojans if I didn't inspect the horse? I've never seen any sense in that phrase. In fact once I rise to power it's going to be banned after I've dealt with J.J. Abrams.

    Are you talking about "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"? If so, it doesn't make sense to you because you're in the wrong context. Someone buying a horse might look it in the mouth because you can tell a horse's age by it's teeth. Looking a gift horse in the mouth is inspecting something freely given to you, looking for defects and things to complain about, not looking for Trojans.
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 820 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Welcome to GAMBLING ONLINE....where no Star Trek has gone before...


    30340093061_jeux-machines-a-sous-gratuites-et-sans.jpg

    And if everyone got their way, this game would be an utter, utter disaster. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Nothing wrong with RNG in a game, even if you think it's all RNG. And lastly, once again, for old time's sake.....you are playing a FREE 20GB+ game!

    If nothing wrong...where is the STAR TREK in ALL of these? Does it really feel like a trek canon to introduce yet another gambling to the system?

    R&D crafting should have been left alone in Memory Alpha as it used to be. A broken system full of randomness to get anything of use is deplorable to say the least. Worse now introducing another currency and more added grind plus more RNG to get anything of value. If you are a Ferengui you might find pleasure on this.

    IMO better to fix what's broken rather than just apply a small band aid and make you feel something good is coming out of this one. I can sell a moon full of cheese if one thinks that way as well.​​
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,677 Community Moderator
    And what, according to you, is broken?

    Do you expect epic WoW sized content releases every time they update the game? Are you wanting movie quality story content every month? Are you wanting our crews to be replaced with Trek Actors so that its not OUR ships but the adventures of the Enterprise, Defiant, or Voyager?

    ANY MMO will have grind involved with endgame. TOR has it, WoW has it... I'm pretty sure even Everquest has it.
    STO is no different than any other MMO in terms of how Endgame is handled. You want better gear? You work for it. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter?
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • anodynesanodynes Member Posts: 1,982 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Welcome to GAMBLING ONLINE....where no Star Trek has gone before...


    30340093061_jeux-machines-a-sous-gratuites-et-sans.jpg

    And if everyone got their way, this game would be an utter, utter disaster. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Nothing wrong with RNG in a game, even if you think it's all RNG. And lastly, once again, for old time's sake.....you are playing a FREE 20GB+ game!

    If nothing wrong...where is the STAR TREK in ALL of these? Does it really feel like a trek canon to introduce yet another gambling to the system?

    R&D crafting should have been left alone in Memory Alpha as it used to be. A broken system full of randomness to get anything of use is deplorable to say the least. Worse now introducing another currency and more added grind plus more RNG to get anything of value. If you are a Ferengui you might find pleasure on this.

    IMO better to fix what's broken rather than just apply a small band aid and make you feel something good is coming out of this one. I can sell a moon full of cheese if one thinks that way as well.​​

    The Star Trek is in the setting, the visuals, the sounds and the names. You simply can't run a business on Federation principles, and that's what this is, a business.

    On top of that, this is an MMO, they are built on RNGs, it's in their DNA, being adapted from PnP RPGs. There's a virtual dice roll every time you fire a shot, every time that shot hits, and so on. MMOs are literally all built on RNGs. Crafting systems in MMOs all have the RNG in them in some way, whether it's for getting the materials, getting recipes, success at crafting the thing or what the results of that crafting are.

    The crafting system at Memory Alpha was flat out terrible. Nobody used it, not even the Aegis set. It was outdated, overly-limited and justifiably ignored. What we have now is far from perfect, but it is miles ahead of what we had.
    This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,363 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    New 'currency' of salvage. bleh. This ability should use the current crafting mats (along w/ lesser amounts of 'savage') and NO DILITHIUM!!!! Quit using Dil as the everything currency. :#
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,677 Community Moderator
    New 'currency' of salvage. bleh. This ability should use the current crafting mats (along w/ lesser amounts of 'savage') and NO DILITHIUM!!!! Quit using Dil as the everything currency. :#

    Problem is, Dilithium is kinda the endgame currency. At least its not like frickin' Neverwinter and their Astral Diamonds.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 820 Arc User
    anodynes wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Welcome to GAMBLING ONLINE....where no Star Trek has gone before...


    30340093061_jeux-machines-a-sous-gratuites-et-sans.jpg

    And if everyone got their way, this game would be an utter, utter disaster. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Nothing wrong with RNG in a game, even if you think it's all RNG. And lastly, once again, for old time's sake.....you are playing a FREE 20GB+ game!

    If nothing wrong...where is the STAR TREK in ALL of these? Does it really feel like a trek canon to introduce yet another gambling to the system?

    R&D crafting should have been left alone in Memory Alpha as it used to be. A broken system full of randomness to get anything of use is deplorable to say the least. Worse now introducing another currency and more added grind plus more RNG to get anything of value. If you are a Ferengui you might find pleasure on this.

    IMO better to fix what's broken rather than just apply a small band aid and make you feel something good is coming out of this one. I can sell a moon full of cheese if one thinks that way as well.

    The Star Trek is in the setting, the visuals, the sounds and the names. You simply can't run a business on Federation principles, and that's what this is, a business.

    On top of that, this is an MMO, they are built on RNGs, it's in their DNA, being adapted from PnP RPGs. There's a virtual dice roll every time you fire a shot, every time that shot hits, and so on. MMOs are literally all built on RNGs. Crafting systems in MMOs all have the RNG in them in some way, whether it's for getting the materials, getting recipes, success at crafting the thing or what the results of that crafting are.

    The crafting system at Memory Alpha was flat out terrible. Nobody used it, not even the Aegis set. It was outdated, overly-limited and justifiably ignored. What we have now is far from perfect, but it is miles ahead of what we had.

    So the visuals and settings should be on a Las Vegas Casino? I still don't get the point where the trek portion is on on gambling.

    Also DNA is not RnG and no simile equating both together looks right. I don't have a problem with some RnG but with and added extra gambling to the system when there was none before. Yeah Memory Alpha was not at all terrible at least for those of us who knew how to use it. I won't convince you if you love whats coming as much you dont convince me that is beyond a broken system. I will leave it at that.​​
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    azrael605 wrote: »
    > @zuigje010 said:
    > This is yet another step in the wrong direction, how many more of these pointless features are they going to introduce?
    > There is hardly anything to do at 60 then old content over and over, every new update/season or what they love to call "expansion" has hardly any playable content, so why introduce this silly idea and on top of that again charge the few players left in this game with dil.....
    >
    > It is already a pain to upgrade items and not getting the right mod feels like a waste of time and dil, now introducing this feature seems like an continuous torture of wasting already so much dil.
    > And judging by the image, you need to randomize? You mean it's still RNG to get the right mod? You can't even choose?
    >
    > Do you hate your small player base that much? You want more people to quit?
    >
    > Remove the cost for dil. at least for your players, come on for crying out loud.

    You don't know much about games do you? Besides we need more Dill sinks, the dillex is still way too high.

    It may feel like a waste to sink in resources, only to come out with an undesirable result...but how much more of a waste would it feel like to have to rebuy/remake and reupgrade several more of the same item to change a mod, rather than simply rolling on the one mod you want to change for a relatively minor cost?
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    bergins wrote: »
    How would I see the Trojans if I didn't inspect the horse? I've never seen any sense in that phrase. In fact once I rise to power it's going to be banned after I've dealt with J.J. Abrams.

    Are you talking about "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"? If so, it doesn't make sense to you because you're in the wrong context. Someone buying a horse might look it in the mouth because you can tell a horse's age by it's teeth. Looking a gift horse in the mouth is inspecting something freely given to you, looking for defects and things to complain about, not looking for Trojans.

    I'd consider a large compliment of angry Greeks (not Trojans of course, silly me) contained within a horse a considerable defect.

    I was joshing anyway, pay me no heed.
  • bubblegirl2015bubblegirl2015 Member Posts: 820 Arc User
    edited January 2018
    rattler2 wrote: »
    And what, according to you, is broken?

    Do you expect epic WoW sized content releases every time they update the game? Are you wanting movie quality story content every month? Are you wanting our crews to be replaced with Trek Actors so that its not OUR ships but the adventures of the Enterprise, Defiant, or Voyager?

    ANY MMO will have grind involved with endgame. TOR has it, WoW has it... I'm pretty sure even Everquest has it.
    STO is no different than any other MMO in terms of how Endgame is handled. You want better gear? You work for it. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter?

    Broken let's see...not just according to me but others who actually play the game...
    Where should I start...perhaps you never stepped to do a Defera invasion map which has been broken since this game launched that part of the map. That's just one tiny example. However, the focus here is whats broken with "crafting".

    Nobody is complaining about grinding but just added EXTREME levels of it for the new salvage currency and Dilithium components. If you think the current Crafting system is not broken well...Congratulations. Guess what even the Devs thinks it needs fixing since now we have another yet added re-engineering system to cure its current state.

    They took the feedback from those of us who actually craft and added this fix. Does one think they would try to fix something just because they are so altruistic and nobody was complaining about a broken crafting system.

    I will defer politely to others to make their point and will end my feedback here.​​
    Wiki editor http://sto.gamepedia.com
    Original STO beta tester.
  • storulesstorules Member Posts: 3,221 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    nimbull wrote: »
    leemwatson wrote: »
    Welcome to GAMBLING ONLINE....where no Star Trek has gone before...


    30340093061_jeux-machines-a-sous-gratuites-et-sans.jpg

    And if everyone got their way, this game would be an utter, utter disaster. Never look a gift horse in the mouth. Nothing wrong with RNG in a game, even if you think it's all RNG. And lastly, once again, for old time's sake.....you are playing a FREE 20GB+ game!

    It's not wrong to want an actual game instead of an RNG love fest. RNG only goes so far to making a game and at some point you actually bring down the quality of a game by playing the numbers all the time.

    True, but the attitude of some is that they should get their own way or it's unfair, for whatever reason. People got what they asked for, the ability to change mods. Cryptic did it this way for economic reasons, and I side with them. It nets them a small amount extra cash for those that buy Dil, which keeps the game running.

    IMO not economic reasons but put simply it was bugged with way to much RnG and yes due to player outcry in having a fix for casino style gambling injected in crafting.​​
    tumblr_ncbngkt24X1ry46hlo1_400.gif
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,181 Arc User
    lopequil wrote: »
    @gaevsman I tried it successfully with an Elachi DBB. Were you by any chance trying to re-roll on the ground weapon?

    Nope, I was using dual cannons, i'll try again today and let you know, this weapon is and old one, never upgraded neither put in the "upgrade window", so that could be the problem. (it works with crafted weapons, BTW)
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • sistericsisteric Member Posts: 768 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    And what, according to you, is broken?

    Do you expect epic WoW sized content releases every time they update the game? Are you wanting movie quality story content every month? Are you wanting our crews to be replaced with Trek Actors so that its not OUR ships but the adventures of the Enterprise, Defiant, or Voyager?

    ANY MMO will have grind involved with endgame. TOR has it, WoW has it... I'm pretty sure even Everquest has it.
    STO is no different than any other MMO in terms of how Endgame is handled. You want better gear? You work for it. You want everything handed to you on a silver platter?

    What I consider as "broken" in crafting is the general concept. Any system which has a engineer build something without a vague idea as how it's going work is clearly not rooted in anything I can consider as logic. And the more complex the device is you are building, the more you have to know how each component works and effects the system as a whole.

    As for the silver platter comment, no I don't want that. What I do want is predictable outcome for the work I do put into it. If they want to increase the cost to make up for the loss in randomization, that's fine by me. But I do NOT like wasting my time, money and resources into something in which I cannot control the outcome. Randomized outputs for resources entered is gambling in my book. And not crafting. Playing the content, as in the missions, queues, scenarios, PVP or whatever else you like to call it, is where RNG is appropriate. The loot you receive can be randomized because it makes sense. Whether you hit a target or not can be connected to rng because it makes sense. But building something and not having a clue on how it will work when completed, does not make sense.

    Federation: Fleet Admiral Zombee (Alien Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Danic (Vulcan Science)::Fleet Admiral Daniel Kochheiser (Human Engineer)
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    RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
    TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
    Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
    Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)

    CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    New 'currency' of salvage. bleh. This ability should use the current crafting mats (along w/ lesser amounts of 'savage') and NO DILITHIUM!!!! Quit using Dil as the everything currency. :#

    Nah... Dilithium is not the "everything currency". Real cash is the "everything currency". I can't walk into McDonald's and buy a Big Mac with Dilithium. However, I can buy a Big Mac with real cash and I can use real cash to purchase Zen, which would allow me to purchase Dilithium.

    :):):)


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