I feel that those of us who liked Discovery are liable to find ourselves in the minorty. It seems like there are numerous people who have decided they hate Discovery (many of them decided months ago). And the worst thing is the dislike/hatred seems to be, for the most part, a by product of it not conforming to what THEY think Trek should be.
My expectations going in were low, Reyan-I was expecting at least an attempt at a good sci-fi show. This was on the quality level of "Battlestar Galactica 1980", or maybe "The Starlost".
I could've accepted Burnham if she acted like an experienced explorer and used basic survival sense during her EVA (like, when you lose contact with your ship, you turn the **** around and come back for a better radio, or some relays, or something, you don't go and walk around on the hull of the object sitting in the middle of a JAMMING FIELD), or if she acted like a person who's served on a ship for seven years (long enough to be good friends with her fellow officers), and actually followed common sense (Backup is coming, don't start something you know you can't finish), or if she'd acted like a good FRIEND (don't undermine and betray your friends in the first stressful situation you've been in in months, especially with a friend who's demonstrated she's more resourceful and strategically aware than you are.)
but that's three strikes right there. Burnham's an educated idiot and she must've gotten her assignment and rank by patronage, bribery, or purchase in the 19th century english style.
IOW she's a frelling Twit, and worse, an incompetent (Demonstrated multiple times before the mutiny scene), reckless, idiot who calls "daddy" the first time she's in real trouble, then ignores the part of his advice that cautions that it won't work in this situation.
so in spite of having one of the most beautiful women in television filling the role, the character's totally and utterly unlikeable.
and she's the star of the bloody show.
but then, they compound it with a demonstration of how to make an alien race, a warrior race, speaking in their own language, giving impassioned speeches that should be full of foreboding and threat, into something boring to watch.
uninteresting, dull, wooden, flat.
Sportsball is more interesting to watch dull.
forget good Trek, this isn't even good television, all it has going for it by the end of the first act, is that the space visuals are absolutely gorgeous.
They used eye candy.....a pretty actress, and space visuals to make up for the rest of the stuffs.....
Where No One Has Gone Before, Home Soil, and We'll always have Paris I quite liked.
Even the writers, producers, directors and actors all consider TNG seasons 1 and 2 to be of lower quality. Just watch any documentary about making the show. Ron Moore went so far as to say if season 3 had continued along the same lines, the show wouldn't have lasted to season 4.
In fact, all of TNG's first two seasons and the first three episodes of Season 3 varied overall from simply okay to meh, though Season 2's 16th episode "Q Who" was pretty good (not the least of which was the introduction of the Borg). It was starting with Season 3's fourth episode ("Who Watches the Watchers") where the series really took off and never looked back.
As for DS9, aside from Season 1's 19th episode "Duet" and Season 2's 19th episode "Blood Oath" (both of which were awesome), all of Season 1 and most of Season 2 varied overall from simply okay to meh. It was starting with Season 2's 23rd episode ("Crossover") where that series really took off and never looked back.
Voyager started off better than the previous two series had started off and gradually improved as time went on, but it never had the type of "really took off" milestone episode that helped truly launch TNG and DS9 (although the Season 6 episode "Pathfinder" was particularly good).
Enterprise (later, Star Trek: Enterprise) was a strange case, having lasted only four seasons. The first two seasons varied overall from simply okay to meh. Season 3 wasn't bad in and of itself, but felt uncomfortably weird with some of the crew's established personalities and motivations either being quasi-retconned or just overly changed, with the whole tone of the show having changed. Season 4 was awesome (no doubt with Rick Berman and Brannon Braga becoming hands-off and simply letting new producer and showrunner Manny Coto do his thing), though the series finale suffered by having been written by Berman and Braga.
Discovery's format is different from the previous series' format (i.e. serialized rather than individually episodic), so it's difficult to make a true comparison, but I enjoyed the first two episodes well enough that I'll give Discovery a chance just as I gave all of the previous series' a chance after their less-than-stellar starts.
I feel that those of us who liked Discovery are liable to find ourselves in the minorty. It seems like there are numerous people who have decided they hate Discovery (many of them decided months ago). And the worst thing is the dislike/hatred seems to be, for the most part, a by product of it not conforming to what THEY think Trek should be.
I am ambivalent towards Star Trek: Discovery.
See, they said from the beginning (and in numerous follow on interviews) that they are going to kill off several members of the crew. For me, if they killed Doctor Basheir or Doctor McCoy or the holo-Doctor (I tend to like the doctors in Trek) in episode 5, season 1, that would totally suck. I kinda want to wait until the season is over before I watch it and get invested. I certainly want spoilers as to who is going to die.
Also, they did some re-writes and re-shoots a couple of times in the first half of the season. I was always of the opinion you would have to see 4 or 5 episodes of Star Trek: Discovery before you could really judge it, maybe even the whole thing. They already split the first season into two parts because of lack of time for post-production. It is possible this show is something you might want to revisit in season two, even if season one does not appeal to you.
I feel that those of us who liked Discovery are liable to find ourselves in the minorty. It seems like there are numerous people who have decided they hate Discovery (many of them decided months ago). And the worst thing is the dislike/hatred seems to be, for the most part, a by product of it not conforming to what THEY think Trek should be.
My expectations going in were low, Reyan-I was expecting at least an attempt at a good sci-fi show. This was on the quality level of "Battlestar Galactica 1980", or maybe "The Starlost".
I could've accepted Burnham if she acted like an experienced explorer and used basic survival sense during her EVA (like, when you lose contact with your ship, you turn the **** around and come back for a better radio, or some relays, or something, you don't go and walk around on the hull of the object sitting in the middle of a JAMMING FIELD), or if she acted like a person who's served on a ship for seven years (long enough to be good friends with her fellow officers), and actually followed common sense (Backup is coming, don't start something you know you can't finish), or if she'd acted like a good FRIEND (don't undermine and betray your friends in the first stressful situation you've been in in months, especially with a friend who's demonstrated she's more resourceful and strategically aware than you are.)
but that's three strikes right there. Burnham's an educated idiot and she must've gotten her assignment and rank by patronage, bribery, or purchase in the 19th century english style.
IOW she's a frelling Twit, and worse, an incompetent (Demonstrated multiple times before the mutiny scene), reckless, idiot who calls "daddy" the first time she's in real trouble, then ignores the part of his advice that cautions that it won't work in this situation.
so in spite of having one of the most beautiful women in television filling the role, the character's totally and utterly unlikeable.
and she's the star of the bloody show.
but then, they compound it with a demonstration of how to make an alien race, a warrior race, speaking in their own language, giving impassioned speeches that should be full of foreboding and threat, into something boring to watch.
uninteresting, dull, wooden, flat.
Sportsball is more interesting to watch dull.
forget good Trek, this isn't even good television, all it has going for it by the end of the first act, is that the space visuals are absolutely gorgeous.
TRIBBLE. I agree with Patrickngo on most of this.
But I am not reading the rest of this thread since I have not had time to see Episode 2.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I've never had one, but I heard you should avoid them.
If we're talking Discovery however, I'd say it was awesome. Loved it. My only regret is that I'll have to wait a week for the next episode. (I have nitpicks, of course, I am a nerd, after all.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
1. she's treacherous-she literally makes a mutiny when she loses an argument.
2. Under stress, her first instinct is to call her daddy.
3. She ignores his caution that what worked for the vulcans over a period of decades won't work for her this very instant.
4. she mishandles personal transportation
5. she ignores safety rules that are inconvenient (like sodding back to the ship when you lose commo in a jamming field you KNOW IS THERE) and gets distracted by 'pretty', leading straight into...
6. ...gets into a classic damsel-in-distress situation from which she must be rescued.
7. she ignores reason and logic (and gets away with it by being pretty.)
8. she's demonstrably incompetent at basic survival (planet scene, EVA scene, mutiny-and-starting-fights without your backup scene...)
9. she's unprofessional.
That's certainly hamfisted, but not unexpected.
Several interviews said that Burnham "dun messed up" and that this was going to be something her character had to overcome over the course of the season. It will bring her into conflict with other members of the crew. It was going to lead to character development as she can't "magically undo the past" but come to terms with what she had done and how it effects herself, the crew and the Federation.
So, the stage is set, as it were. Now, who is going to die first?
I can't help but wonder how many new Netflix accounts were created with 'Discovery' in mind. All things considered I VERY much doubt such statistics would be available, but I know of at least one person who did so. Me.
I believe Netflix is always pretty tight-lipped about these things. I can say I was a member of Netflix already before this, but the Discovery deal certainly cemented their good standing with me.
I enjoyed it a lot.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
dude, what she did? gets you thrown in prison with no parole if you even survive it. It's only through the magick of handwavium and plot armor on a truly unrealistic scale, that anyone would be able to come back from that. (or a regression to the 1860's in the Union Army.)
You make some good points. This all boils down to expectations, I think.
The writing in Star Trek has always been somewhat spotty. As a result, viewers and fans tend to grant some leeway because there are aspects of a series they really like.
Now, there is so far one episode of Star Trek: Discovery and it has issues. However, the general writing of Star Trek is so mediocre, that many long time fans are fine giving the new series a few episodes to establish itself.
As for "how bad" her actions are, I think the writers are going back to established stories. Picard was in a movie called Insurrection after all. I have no doubt her actions are jaw-droppingly stupid, but that is kinda par for the course with much of the writing in Star Trek. Hence, the general expectation that "stuff is going to be terrible until it gets better".
So another 100 pages of nonsense, lies and misrepresentations, mostly by the same mob that's been hating on the very idea of Discovery since before we saw a second of footage ? Fanbois :P
It does give me a new perspecive of the early klingon empire. In ENT they passingly mentioned Sec.31 are try to destabilize klingons and it seemed to have worked. Klingons are now nothing mroe than a band of marauders and pirates, no functioniing society,no scientific progress as whole, no developemt. Just raid, attack and kill. Look, depsite the power of Sarcophagus ship(outgunning modern-ish Starfleet ships, tank warpcore detonations will a champ) the rest of the 24-house fleet barey apporched that level of technology, even though Tvkuma's family had it for 200 years klingons couldnt even reverse engineer at least bit of tech from it and improve their ship beyond fedeation capability.
Hast thou not gone against sincerity
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
So another 100 pages of nonsense, lies and misrepresentations, mostly by the same mob that's been hating on the very idea of Discovery since before we saw a second of footage ? Fanbois :P
It'll be over soon, since they won't pay for CBS All Access and have nothing new to tell. I hope. (Unless they can use Netflix, then ... *sigh*. One can only hope they stop watching a show they hate.)
I'd say it's one of the best Trek pilots to date. A lot better and rounder story-telling and more solid characters. Usually the show first struggled to find a voice and tone, it seems far more polished this time around.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I can't help but wonder how many new Netflix accounts were created with 'Discovery' in mind. All things considered I VERY much doubt such statistics would be available, but I know of at least one person who did so. Me.
I believe Netflix is always pretty tight-lipped about these things. I can say I was a member of Netflix already before this, but the Discovery deal certainly cemented their good standing with me.
I enjoyed it a lot.
Netflix uses pirate video sites as one of their metrics for how well a show is projected to do. They also use them to determine what direction video entertainment is heading, and have been very successful using this method. That being said, some of those sites show some dismal views for TRIBBLE. When sites with 40 or 50 links to TRIBBLE show less than 10 views for many of those links, it's a very good indicator that this show is not going to do very well.
This was on the quality level of "Battlestar Galactica 1980"
Hardly.
you're right, Battlestar Galactica 1980 has the excuse of being very low-budget and under network constraints. Discovery is HUGE budget and built to get a TV-MA rating (fewer constraints) so they have fewer excuses. It's qualitatively worse.
Also BSG 1980 made more logical sense than this drivel of a storyline they had. Seriously, I have seen slash fanfic that are better. Actually, I don't think I have seen a slash fanfic that was WORSE. The only hope this series had after they screwed pretty much everything up was to have a good storyline and they can't do better than crazed yaoi fangirls. It's pretty damn pathetic.
Agree, 100%.
BSG 1980 actually had some excellent storylines even though the execution of the show was horrid.
The best episode being "The Return of Starbuck" in my humble opinion.
I LOVED the opening narration.
There are those here that life here, began out THERE, far aross the universe,e with tribes of humans that mayne have been the ancestors of the Toltecs and the Mayans...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hrd767Xzfk
The Ancient Alien supporters in my squees each time I hear that narration. And lil subtle hints...like the pilot helmets looking like Egyptian headdresses. V |^_^\
I watched the 2nd part and liked it a bit better than the first part. I agree that the assault and the mutiny was a step too far. But I think it does make some sense that she will get a second chance in an extreme wartime situation. I also like the idea of the main villain and the main hero (the captain) being killed in the first episode. I look at this 2 part premier as a backstory and now the show will begin with episode 3. I hope going forward it will be more character driven. If so I think I will enjoy it. But then I'm also a big Enterprise fan.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
@patrickngo: Everything you said about Burnham's actions is true.
HOWEVER: This is Star Trek. The protagonist faction of the franchise has always been big on second chances. Possibly to a fault, but the point is, Star Trek has never been written as straight military science fiction the way you and I write our fan fiction.
Because, unfortunately, BURNHAM WAS RIGHT. The Klingons came out looking for a fight. Consider they had just crossed into Federation territory, fired on a Federation installation, and attacked a Starfleet officer without provocation who was just trying to figure out what the frell was going on. That's an act of war by any standard.
So, they give her a chance to redeem herself, no less than they gave Tom Paris, who had been convicted of domestic terrorism if you'll recall.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
they gave Tom Paris, who had been convicted of domestic terrorism if you'll recall.
best i recall janeway "the rehab commission has been very pleased with your work" and only came on as an observer don't think she has done anything like that unless they going to do a 7 year later thing
It looks like Orville is more of a Star Trek series than Discovery. Especially with the social commentary about modern society in the "About a Girl" episode.
Comments
They used eye candy.....a pretty actress, and space visuals to make up for the rest of the stuffs.....
In fact, all of TNG's first two seasons and the first three episodes of Season 3 varied overall from simply okay to meh, though Season 2's 16th episode "Q Who" was pretty good (not the least of which was the introduction of the Borg). It was starting with Season 3's fourth episode ("Who Watches the Watchers") where the series really took off and never looked back.
As for DS9, aside from Season 1's 19th episode "Duet" and Season 2's 19th episode "Blood Oath" (both of which were awesome), all of Season 1 and most of Season 2 varied overall from simply okay to meh. It was starting with Season 2's 23rd episode ("Crossover") where that series really took off and never looked back.
Voyager started off better than the previous two series had started off and gradually improved as time went on, but it never had the type of "really took off" milestone episode that helped truly launch TNG and DS9 (although the Season 6 episode "Pathfinder" was particularly good).
Enterprise (later, Star Trek: Enterprise) was a strange case, having lasted only four seasons. The first two seasons varied overall from simply okay to meh. Season 3 wasn't bad in and of itself, but felt uncomfortably weird with some of the crew's established personalities and motivations either being quasi-retconned or just overly changed, with the whole tone of the show having changed. Season 4 was awesome (no doubt with Rick Berman and Brannon Braga becoming hands-off and simply letting new producer and showrunner Manny Coto do his thing), though the series finale suffered by having been written by Berman and Braga.
Discovery's format is different from the previous series' format (i.e. serialized rather than individually episodic), so it's difficult to make a true comparison, but I enjoyed the first two episodes well enough that I'll give Discovery a chance just as I gave all of the previous series' a chance after their less-than-stellar starts.
See, they said from the beginning (and in numerous follow on interviews) that they are going to kill off several members of the crew. For me, if they killed Doctor Basheir or Doctor McCoy or the holo-Doctor (I tend to like the doctors in Trek) in episode 5, season 1, that would totally suck. I kinda want to wait until the season is over before I watch it and get invested. I certainly want spoilers as to who is going to die.
Also, they did some re-writes and re-shoots a couple of times in the first half of the season. I was always of the opinion you would have to see 4 or 5 episodes of Star Trek: Discovery before you could really judge it, maybe even the whole thing. They already split the first season into two parts because of lack of time for post-production. It is possible this show is something you might want to revisit in season two, even if season one does not appeal to you.
TRIBBLE. I agree with Patrickngo on most of this.
But I am not reading the rest of this thread since I have not had time to see Episode 2.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
If we're talking Discovery however, I'd say it was awesome. Loved it. My only regret is that I'll have to wait a week for the next episode. (I have nitpicks, of course, I am a nerd, after all.)
Several interviews said that Burnham "dun messed up" and that this was going to be something her character had to overcome over the course of the season. It will bring her into conflict with other members of the crew. It was going to lead to character development as she can't "magically undo the past" but come to terms with what she had done and how it effects herself, the crew and the Federation.
So, the stage is set, as it were. Now, who is going to die first?
I believe Netflix is always pretty tight-lipped about these things. I can say I was a member of Netflix already before this, but the Discovery deal certainly cemented their good standing with me.
I enjoyed it a lot.
The writing in Star Trek has always been somewhat spotty. As a result, viewers and fans tend to grant some leeway because there are aspects of a series they really like.
Now, there is so far one episode of Star Trek: Discovery and it has issues. However, the general writing of Star Trek is so mediocre, that many long time fans are fine giving the new series a few episodes to establish itself.
As for "how bad" her actions are, I think the writers are going back to established stories. Picard was in a movie called Insurrection after all. I have no doubt her actions are jaw-droppingly stupid, but that is kinda par for the course with much of the writing in Star Trek. Hence, the general expectation that "stuff is going to be terrible until it gets better".
Hast thou not felt ashamed of thy words and deeds
Hast thou not lacked vigor
Hast thou exerted all possible efforts
Hast thou not become slothful
I'd say it's one of the best Trek pilots to date. A lot better and rounder story-telling and more solid characters. Usually the show first struggled to find a voice and tone, it seems far more polished this time around.
Netflix uses pirate video sites as one of their metrics for how well a show is projected to do. They also use them to determine what direction video entertainment is heading, and have been very successful using this method. That being said, some of those sites show some dismal views for TRIBBLE. When sites with 40 or 50 links to TRIBBLE show less than 10 views for many of those links, it's a very good indicator that this show is not going to do very well.
I LOVED the opening narration.
There are those here that life here, began out THERE, far aross the universe,e with tribes of humans that mayne have been the ancestors of the Toltecs and the Mayans......
The Ancient Alien supporters in my squees each time I hear that narration. And lil subtle hints...like the pilot helmets looking like Egyptian headdresses. V |^_^\
This is good music, you don't hear this type much anymore, and it's uplifting, not gritty or gloomy.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
HOWEVER: This is Star Trek. The protagonist faction of the franchise has always been big on second chances. Possibly to a fault, but the point is, Star Trek has never been written as straight military science fiction the way you and I write our fan fiction.
Because, unfortunately, BURNHAM WAS RIGHT. The Klingons came out looking for a fight. Consider they had just crossed into Federation territory, fired on a Federation installation, and attacked a Starfleet officer without provocation who was just trying to figure out what the frell was going on. That's an act of war by any standard.
So, they give her a chance to redeem herself, no less than they gave Tom Paris, who had been convicted of domestic terrorism if you'll recall.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
best i recall janeway "the rehab commission has been very pleased with your work" and only came on as an observer don't think she has done anything like that unless they going to do a 7 year later thing
system Lord Baal is dead