Something being a "hot topic" is not the same as "popular". People are not talking about terrorist attacks because they want more of them.
No, they talk about terrorism because they fear more attacks.
And with Discovery, it's about the fear of change. Because the long-time/hardcore-fans dilute themselves into thinking that Star Trek kinda belongs to them. With all the fan-service in some of the TNG-movies and attempted fan-service of Into Darkness, they felt re-inforced in that way of thinking.
Now that a new show is finally out but not specifically geared to them, they can't stop ranting. It's been the same with ST 2009.
And people who like the show can't stop defending. It's polarizing. Thus, a hot topic. Thus... it gets all the attention it needs anyway.
Something being a "hot topic" is not the same as "popular". People are not talking about terrorist attacks because they want more of them.
No, they talk about terrorism because they fear more attacks.
And with Discovery, it's about the fear of change. Because the long-time/hardcore-fans dilute themselves into thinking that Star Trek kinda belongs to them. With all the fan-service in some of the TNG-movies and attempted fan-service of Into Darkness, they felt re-inforced in that way of thinking.
Now that a new show is finally out but not specifically geared to them, they can't stop ranting. It's been the same with ST 2009.
And people who like the show can't stop defending. It's polarizing. Thus, a hot topic. Thus... it gets all the attention it needs anyway.
It would be easier to defend Discovery if the creators use the same tactic as JJ Abrams. Star Trek uses an infinite number of parallel universes that are almost identical based on the Parallels episode from TNG. So having Discovery and its Mirror Universe set in parallel universes would resolve the problems that some people have with it. We are already use to a parallel universe Star Trek with the new Star Trek movies.
A tougher sell would be to state that a sequel of Enterprise is not the same thing as a prequel of TOS considering that TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager would cease to exist due to all the temporal changes in Enterprise.
Both situations would give creativity to what the creators are capable of instead of using Deus Ex Machina to fix the current situation in Discovery. Prequels are limited in what they are capable of since Anakin Skywalker has to be severely injured and turned into Darth Vader, the Jedi Order has to be destroyed, and the Empire has to win. Having the Federation claw their way back to victory and rebuilding their society would make for a more interesting story than we are going to use time travel to reset everything back to normal either by making the first season completely pointless or saving the Federation in the nick of time instead of vanishing for 9 months.
It would be easier to defend Discovery if the creators use the same tactic as JJ Abrams. Star Trek uses an infinite number of parallel universes that are almost identical based on the Parallels episode from TNG. So having Discovery and its Mirror Universe set in parallel universes would resolve the problems that some people have with it.
Those infinite parallel universes have one huge flaw however, especially when it comes to character-driven story. Everything that happens would not be that special anymore, because there are technically infinite versions of you who range from backstabbing criminal to the next possible Q. The 2009-reboot in particular wanted to make the Kirk-going-to-become-captain-of-the-Enterprise to be super-special, but kinda destroyed that premise by being one of infinite alternate timelines.
I felt that the 2009-reboot did this only because they were aware there'd be backlash to a reboot in general, and to mitigate some of it they pulled out the alternate-timeline.
DIS however IS happening in the prime-universe timeframe of the mid 2250's. They do not re-boot, but they do re-imagine.
The major difference between DIS and ENT as far as prequels go is this one:
ENT was made to be for fans of Star Trek, with Rick Berman following what he believed is Gene's vision...
Making stuff for the fans primarily and for general audiences second is a doomed concept.
When First Contact first aired on TV, classmates who watched it asked me what the hell was going on in the movie. And I can't blame them. The pseudo-exposition from Queen Borg and the pro-noun-game about what First Contact actually means, plus the many things in the movie you can't really get if you didn't watch Generations and parts of DS9 and ALSO the stupid one-liners that are meant to cover up the smaller plot-holes (the moon's gravitational field obscured our - that's total BS, Worf!)....
The problem with trying to make a reboot feel special is that it is something that has already been done. Kirk becoming captain, by its very nature, can't feel special because that is how we always knew him. To say nothing of the lame way they just handed the title to him in Trek'09.
Enterprise's problems were a lot deeper than just the gap between fans and non-fans. Enterprise just didn't do anything productive with its setting until the final season, when it was already to late to save the show. By their very nature prequels are obligated to pay attention to past works and have a game plan for how they are going to take advantage of the setting. With Enterprise they didn't do that, they thought they could just make it up as they went like they did with the other shows, but that just doesn't work in a prequel setting.
It seems like the franchise has been suffering from a lack of cohesive vision since Voyager onward. The writers float interesting ideas but never seem to commit to them as they would stray from the comfortable "status quo" writing formula that they use. They also can't seem to get "world building" right anymore as each project rejects or ignores what has come before it. Why should an audience care about the franchise if each iteration is constantly stumbling over its predecessors.
Overall I think the one thing that the franchise lacks right now that it really needs is a small group to act as an overall general manager to oversee the franchise as a whole. This GM group would keep their eye on the big picture and keep all the projects working smoothly together and make sure they aren't contradicting each other. Sadly the big shots at CBS and Paramount seem almost embarrassed to be associated with Star Trek...
It would be sad, but funny if Discovery decides to use the It was all a dream card. Personally, I am hoping for Discovery to be Star Trek: Sliders and Discovery is set in a parallel universe with the chance of ending up in the Prime Universe. If it is not a parallel universe, then we know that Discovery will go back in time to stop the Federation from losing the war since there is no evidence of the Federation ever losing a war to the Klingons in the Prime Universe.
It would be sad, but funny if Discovery decides to use the It was all a dream card. Personally, I am hoping for Discovery to be Star Trek: Sliders and Discovery is set in a parallel universe with the chance of ending up in the Prime Universe. If it is not a parallel universe, then we know that Discovery will go back in time to stop the Federation from losing the war since there is no evidence of the Federation ever losing a war to the Klingons in the Prime Universe.
Or just confuse the Klingons enough that the Feds win the war....
It would be sad, but funny if Discovery decides to use the It was all a dream card. Personally, I am hoping for Discovery to be Star Trek: Sliders and Discovery is set in a parallel universe with the chance of ending up in the Prime Universe. If it is not a parallel universe, then we know that Discovery will go back in time to stop the Federation from losing the war since there is no evidence of the Federation ever losing a war to the Klingons in the Prime Universe.
you realize how cripplingly incompetent the Federation would have to be to lose a war to the Klingorks of Discovery, right?
Just shows that Klingorcs have a cheap military tactic with their cloaking device. Effective cloaking technology like instantaneous travel are a couple of the ultimate military technologies. The other two ultimate military technologies would be absolute strength and absolute defense. The only way that the Federation is cripplingly incompetent is that they have to rely on Discovery to figure out how to detect cloaked ships. It doesn't matter how competent an army is as long as they are using cheats.
All that will happen is Mirror Phillipa is going to show Starfleet some of her Terran Empire tactics, and they will shock and awe the Klingons into a retreat, and the war will end.
Her tactics cannot beat simple numbers. The Federation is losing because there are lots of cloaked ships. I doubt the Klingons will just go home after a couple of skirmishes.
Although, with the terrible writing on display for the majority of Star Trek: Discovery... sure, why not? The most warlike race in the known galaxy goes home when a little girl kicks sand in their face one time.
I'm still betting on a "temporal reset button". Then they don't have to address all the plot threads and lost characters. They can just start fresh next season. It's what I expect from the minds behind Lost.
I'm still betting on a "temporal reset button". Then they don't have to address all the plot threads and lost characters. They can just start fresh next season. It's what I expect from the minds behind Lost.
It is all a matter of whether they reset the whole season or reset the 9 month jump. Either way is a cop out, but one is a giant middle finger to everyone watching the show. Although, it would be interesting if they keep on using the temporal reset button every season. It would get boring to see the same characters experiencing the same year over and over again. The advantage of the Star Trek: Sliders idea is that it would keep every season interesting since they are in a different parallel universe every season.
We now have the Terran Emperor commanding the U.S.S. Discovery.
The Federation is sucking really bad in the war with the Klingons, this is going on while the Klingons are having their own internal squabbles
&
Michael Burnham is still not dead?
Not bad... especially after a late-night viewing, thanks to being distracted by the sports-ball game last night.
As others have said, the I.S.S. Discovery gets taken out like a punk? NOTHING happened with that?! WTF?!
That said, I will hat-tip to this show for the little nods/additions to canon. From the backstory now established about Spock's relationship with Sarek, to the acknowledgement of the U.S.S. Defiant in the MU, to the things mentioned in this episode. Discovery's adventure into the MU basically gets the Talos IV treatment, and we get an Archer/NX-01 reference. I can live with all of these.
I am worried, though, about the GLARING inconsistencies to previous canon. The Federation is on the brink of destruction?At the hand of the Klingon Empire, who according to canon, never had the hutzpah to attack Earth? This really does not seem to match the universe we establish in TOS and beyond.
Still very worried that a magic reset button will be hit, somehow.
I don't think I like this Mirror Georgiou thing... I seriously thought an Enterprise cast member was about to walk out tof the turbo lift at the end, instead of her.
Jane Brooks and Admiral Cornwell are awesome. Great addition.
Saru is also strong, and I think he'd be a fine captain in Season 2.
The Tyler stuff is kinda interesting, but it also feels like we're watching "As The Voq Turns."
As others have said, the I.S.S. Discovery gets taken out like a punk? NOTHING happened with that?! WTF?!
I am not that surprised. The season has only 15 episodes, and it wouldn't be really all that interesting to see what they did. If people are worried about Disco breaking canon in some way, a Mirror ship roaming free for a few months in the Prime Universe seems to be exactly the way to get there.
And from the story itself - the Discovery wanted to DASH back to Starfleet because they were expecting more Klingons. And the Mirror Disco has no Spore Drive and probably also no cloak-breaking algorithm. Captain Killy might have had a reputation for being ruthless and brutal, but that doesn't mean she was able to outmaneuver a superior number of cloak-capable Klingon ships.
Overall an interesting development.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Show some more ships.....this show is very...claustrophobic....for some reason they hardly show ships that approach....what are they spending the big budget on? o.O
I am worried, though, about the GLARING inconsistencies to previous canon. The Federation is on the brink of destruction?At the hand of the Klingon Empire, who according to canon, never had the hutzpah to attack Earth? This really does not seem to match the universe we establish in TOS and beyond.
Except in the alternate timeline in TNG where Tasha Yar hadn't died and the Klingon Empire was at war with the Federation, and had been for years, and the war was going so bad for the Federation that billions were dead, and it was predicted that a full surrender would happen within 6 months of the time the episode took place.
Klingons would totally attack Earth if they got the chance.
And they never got the chance before TOS. After all, we never hear in TOS about the time that the Klingons almost destroyed the Federation. It seems exactly the same situation in The Best of Both Worlds were Earth is almost assimilated, but saved in the nick of time by a plot device or the end of the Minbari War in Babylon 5. Just easier to treat Discovery as a parallel universe or a sequel of Enterprise where due to all the temporal changes in Enterprise causes the events in TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager to cease to exist.
@somtaawkhar you are of course right, but that shows how flawed the concept of doing prequels to existing works is when you actually don't plan on adapting your writing to respect the work that came before. As a piece of written fiction a retcon is a terrible thing save it is required to fix long standing errors. It shows that creatively a author wasn't able or willing to work in the confines of a canon and thus wouldn't have to go there in the first place. If you want to tell a TOS story, logically, you couldn't tell a story about events that interfere or "trump" TOS content - if keeping canon intact is somewhere on your paper at least.
EDIT: corrected typos due to previous mobile device usage
Post edited by angrytarg on
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
No, they talk about terrorism because they fear more attacks.
And with Discovery, it's about the fear of change. Because the long-time/hardcore-fans dilute themselves into thinking that Star Trek kinda belongs to them. With all the fan-service in some of the TNG-movies and attempted fan-service of Into Darkness, they felt re-inforced in that way of thinking.
Now that a new show is finally out but not specifically geared to them, they can't stop ranting. It's been the same with ST 2009.
And people who like the show can't stop defending. It's polarizing. Thus, a hot topic. Thus... it gets all the attention it needs anyway.
It would be easier to defend Discovery if the creators use the same tactic as JJ Abrams. Star Trek uses an infinite number of parallel universes that are almost identical based on the Parallels episode from TNG. So having Discovery and its Mirror Universe set in parallel universes would resolve the problems that some people have with it. We are already use to a parallel universe Star Trek with the new Star Trek movies.
A tougher sell would be to state that a sequel of Enterprise is not the same thing as a prequel of TOS considering that TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager would cease to exist due to all the temporal changes in Enterprise.
Both situations would give creativity to what the creators are capable of instead of using Deus Ex Machina to fix the current situation in Discovery. Prequels are limited in what they are capable of since Anakin Skywalker has to be severely injured and turned into Darth Vader, the Jedi Order has to be destroyed, and the Empire has to win. Having the Federation claw their way back to victory and rebuilding their society would make for a more interesting story than we are going to use time travel to reset everything back to normal either by making the first season completely pointless or saving the Federation in the nick of time instead of vanishing for 9 months.
Those infinite parallel universes have one huge flaw however, especially when it comes to character-driven story. Everything that happens would not be that special anymore, because there are technically infinite versions of you who range from backstabbing criminal to the next possible Q. The 2009-reboot in particular wanted to make the Kirk-going-to-become-captain-of-the-Enterprise to be super-special, but kinda destroyed that premise by being one of infinite alternate timelines.
I felt that the 2009-reboot did this only because they were aware there'd be backlash to a reboot in general, and to mitigate some of it they pulled out the alternate-timeline.
DIS however IS happening in the prime-universe timeframe of the mid 2250's. They do not re-boot, but they do re-imagine.
The major difference between DIS and ENT as far as prequels go is this one:
ENT was made to be for fans of Star Trek, with Rick Berman following what he believed is Gene's vision...
Making stuff for the fans primarily and for general audiences second is a doomed concept.
When First Contact first aired on TV, classmates who watched it asked me what the hell was going on in the movie. And I can't blame them. The pseudo-exposition from Queen Borg and the pro-noun-game about what First Contact actually means, plus the many things in the movie you can't really get if you didn't watch Generations and parts of DS9 and ALSO the stupid one-liners that are meant to cover up the smaller plot-holes (the moon's gravitational field obscured our - that's total BS, Worf!)....
Enterprise's problems were a lot deeper than just the gap between fans and non-fans. Enterprise just didn't do anything productive with its setting until the final season, when it was already to late to save the show. By their very nature prequels are obligated to pay attention to past works and have a game plan for how they are going to take advantage of the setting. With Enterprise they didn't do that, they thought they could just make it up as they went like they did with the other shows, but that just doesn't work in a prequel setting.
It seems like the franchise has been suffering from a lack of cohesive vision since Voyager onward. The writers float interesting ideas but never seem to commit to them as they would stray from the comfortable "status quo" writing formula that they use. They also can't seem to get "world building" right anymore as each project rejects or ignores what has come before it. Why should an audience care about the franchise if each iteration is constantly stumbling over its predecessors.
Overall I think the one thing that the franchise lacks right now that it really needs is a small group to act as an overall general manager to oversee the franchise as a whole. This GM group would keep their eye on the big picture and keep all the projects working smoothly together and make sure they aren't contradicting each other. Sadly the big shots at CBS and Paramount seem almost embarrassed to be associated with Star Trek...
My character Tsin'xing
sliders:
https://imgur.com/a/0QsrS
Just shows that Klingorcs have a cheap military tactic with their cloaking device. Effective cloaking technology like instantaneous travel are a couple of the ultimate military technologies. The other two ultimate military technologies would be absolute strength and absolute defense. The only way that the Federation is cripplingly incompetent is that they have to rely on Discovery to figure out how to detect cloaked ships. It doesn't matter how competent an army is as long as they are using cheats.
Although, with the terrible writing on display for the majority of Star Trek: Discovery... sure, why not? The most warlike race in the known galaxy goes home when a little girl kicks sand in their face one time.
I'm still betting on a "temporal reset button". Then they don't have to address all the plot threads and lost characters. They can just start fresh next season. It's what I expect from the minds behind Lost.
It is all a matter of whether they reset the whole season or reset the 9 month jump. Either way is a cop out, but one is a giant middle finger to everyone watching the show. Although, it would be interesting if they keep on using the temporal reset button every season. It would get boring to see the same characters experiencing the same year over and over again. The advantage of the Star Trek: Sliders idea is that it would keep every season interesting since they are in a different parallel universe every season.
https://trekmovie.com/2018/02/04/review-star-trek-discovery-loses-the-battle-in-the-war-without-the-war-within/
We now have the Terran Emperor commanding the U.S.S. Discovery.
The Federation is sucking really bad in the war with the Klingons, this is going on while the Klingons are having their own internal squabbles
&
Michael Burnham is still not dead?
Next week should be interesting...
And from the story itself - the Discovery wanted to DASH back to Starfleet because they were expecting more Klingons. And the Mirror Disco has no Spore Drive and probably also no cloak-breaking algorithm. Captain Killy might have had a reputation for being ruthless and brutal, but that doesn't mean she was able to outmaneuver a superior number of cloak-capable Klingon ships.
Overall an interesting development.
And they never got the chance before TOS. After all, we never hear in TOS about the time that the Klingons almost destroyed the Federation. It seems exactly the same situation in The Best of Both Worlds were Earth is almost assimilated, but saved in the nick of time by a plot device or the end of the Minbari War in Babylon 5. Just easier to treat Discovery as a parallel universe or a sequel of Enterprise where due to all the temporal changes in Enterprise causes the events in TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager to cease to exist.
https://trekmovie.com/2018/02/05/take-a-trip-to-qonos-with-our-star-trek-discovery-season-finale-preview-analysis/
EDIT: corrected typos due to previous mobile device usage
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