untimed should be the true fast version... if you can rush thru 5 waves asap and die... you can finish before 20 mins.
they should set up 20 mins to be 20 mins, even if all team members only the timer will stop... if you abandon you get jack. you need to finish 20 mins for it to end and get reward.
frankly they set up the wrong ques for this... 1st should be complete 5 waves and end, 2nd should be unlimited with afk penalty.
if they had set up the 2 ques like this then folks wouldnt be bitchy about it.
OP goes to play a completely voluntary mission/event that is set for 20 minutes.
OP then complains that other players who are playing the mission to the best of their abilities are wrong.
So let me get this straight.
You go to play a 20 min mission.. But you don't want to play 20 min.. You want to play just a few rounds. So everyone else is doing it wrong?
People who play this game, never cease to amaze me what they choose to complain about. And then shift the blame onto Perfect World Entertainment and the developers. It makes me think this game has the WORST players ever.
No one is forcing you to play Sompek.
You cannot complain OP because of other players playing the mission as intended and having fun. Because you want just "skip" through the game.
Yes, streching the short queue to 20 minutes just for laughs at other players expense is selfish.
That is a nice strawman there.
No one is arguing that "stretching out the length of the queue for the lulz is totally ok". Players are saying "the event is fun; I enjoy jumping into a 20 min event and shooting things".
There are separate short and long queue specifically to account for players' different goals (trying to get far vs just picking up the event token).
Your goals are not the design intent of the queue.
One queue you murder things for as long as you can. The other queue you murder things for 20 minutes. This is clearly stated in the description of both queues.
In fact, nothing stops you from applying your goals to either style of queue.
> @snowwolf#0563 said: > OP goes to play a completely voluntary mission/event that is set for 20 minutes. > > OP then complains that other players who are playing the mission to the best of their abilities are wrong. > > So let me get this straight. > > You go to play a 20 min mission.. But you don't want to play 20 min.. You want to play just a few rounds. So everyone else is doing it wrong? > > People who play this game, never cease to amaze me what they choose to complain about. And then shift the blame onto Perfect World Entertainment and the developers. It makes me think this game has the WORST players ever. > > No one is forcing you to play Sompek. > > You cannot complain OP because of other players playing the mission as intended and having fun. Because you want just "skip" through the game. > > Please get it togheter OP.
Must be a dev.
Fleet Admiral of the U.S.S. ATTILA KHAN-CDA (NX-921911).
Yes, streching the short queue to 20 minutes just for laughs at other players expense is selfish.
That is a nice strawman there.
No one is arguing that "stretching out the length of the queue for the lulz is totally ok". Players are saying "the event is fun; I enjoy jumping into a 20 min event and shooting things".
Those statements mean the same thing. However you word it, you are wasting other people's time for your own amusement.
There are separate short and long queue specifically to account for players' different goals (trying to get far vs just picking up the event token).
Your goals are not the design intent of the queue.
One queue you murder things for as long as you can. The other queue you murder things for 20 minutes. This is clearly stated in the description of both queues.
I presume you have documentation of this desing intent? Do share.
In any case, that's irrelevant. Ultimately the players decide how it's played. If the mission designer didn't want players to quit after wave 5, they shouldn't have placed the main reward at wave 5.
It's 20 minutes, just play through to the end. The higher rounds you get in those 20 minutes means higher rewards, it's not profitable just stopping at wave 5.
I'm not touching this event but with my 22 chars at 15 mins or 20 whichever it really is way too damn long. Now imagine others with 40-50 chars.
It's 20 minutes, just play through to the end. The higher rounds you get in those 20 minutes means higher rewards, it's not profitable just stopping at wave 5.
I'm not touching this event but with my 22 chars at 15 mins or 20 whichever it really is way too damn long. Now imagine others with 40-50 chars.
I'm only doing it on one
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
It's 20 minutes, just play through to the end. The higher rounds you get in those 20 minutes means higher rewards, it's not profitable just stopping at wave 5.
You have that backwards. I've yet to have a group that takes over 3 minutes to finish round 4, and I've also yet to have a group that goes the distance get past round 27. The reward for that extra 16 or so minutes is 0 more dilithium, 56 more marks (less than double the amount from finishing round 4) and an upgrade of the Normal Weekend bonus materials box to an Elite Weekend bonus materials box.
Yea, this event is really hurting. All it accomplishes is polarizing fleets, channels and the player base as such.
And all of that for a fistful of dil and marks we can get in pve each day anyway.
I've really only seen the polarization on the forums. I've done 136 of the timed version now and seen 3 short, snide comments of disagreement over how long the run was going to go. I'd seen more complaints during Breach and Mirror this year about AFKers than I've see about this. The forums have a way of magnifying the small things to unreasonable size. This is a tempest in a teacup.
I presume you have documentation of this desing intent? Do share.
In any case, that's irrelevant. Ultimately the players decide how it's played. If the mission designer didn't want players to quit after wave 5, they shouldn't have placed the main reward at wave 5.
On the contrary, we have documentation that states designer intent quite well. They specifically designed it to give no rewards if you don't finish round 4, and stated as much in the blog. Their intent was to get players to do something to earn their reward, and that something is finishing 4 rounds.
OP: You have no right to tell others in a queue that you didn't form yourself how to play.
People who disagree with the way the OP and others want to complete this task: The same goes to you.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
It only makes logical sense that a game mode with a 20 minute time limit and explicit instructions to attempt to survive for those 20 minutes expects you to attempt to last until 20 minutes passes.
It's 20 minutes, just play through to the end. The higher rounds you get in those 20 minutes means higher rewards, it's not profitable just stopping at wave 5.
You have that backwards. I've yet to have a group that takes over 3 minutes to finish round 4, and I've also yet to have a group that goes the distance get past round 27. The reward for that extra 16 or so minutes is 0 more dilithium, 56 more marks (less than double the amount from finishing round 4) and an upgrade of the Normal Weekend bonus materials box to an Elite Weekend bonus materials box.
Quite frankly, 20 minutes is a good endurance test because that's how it's designed
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I can understand both sides of this. In one side many players either want to just get the grind for the daily merit done as they might hate ground combat, but yet others want to actually try and finish the run either to get their reward or to see how high they can push the run in the time-limit. Yet I don't see an issue with players asking for one or the other, which to me should be done as I found it actually can help as many times there is a majority vote one way of the other.
Though i do wish we had three options for this stf/mission, which was timed (20-min), unlimited, and then a grinder type that you play up to round five for those that want to just get the merit.
There are separate short and long queue specifically to account for players' different goals (trying to get far vs just picking up the event token).
Your goals are not the design intent of the queue.
One queue you murder things for as long as you can. The other queue you murder things for 20 minutes. This is clearly stated in the description of both queues.
I presume you have documentation of this desing intent? Do share.
Since you've already stated the intent before, can you show your documentation?
The way I would understand the "timed" version - but this is more a "how I would use it" than a "that's the rule others have to follow" - is a way to guarantee a somewhat reliable end, e. g. when you've got something else to do and want a guaranteed time to start it.
I very much doubt that there is a design intent on any MMO which is specifically "give some guys their rewards for as little work as possible". Except maybe to get some players out of the way of the enjoyment others may have. But generally my experience is that companies will rather make things harder for the quick players, what with the much maligned metrics and stuff.
But no, I have no inside information whatsoever.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Yes, streching the short queue to 20 minutes just for laughs at other players expense is selfish.
There are separate short and long queue specifically to account for players' different goals (trying to get far vs just picking up the event token).
To be honest i have had one run in which the rest of the team died in round two and never respawned in the timed version.
At that time i said "F it" and made sure the run went on for the full 20 minutes with my tanking engineer.
People should not expect a quick milk run even in timed.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
There are separate short and long queue specifically to account for players' different goals (trying to get far vs just picking up the event token).
Your goals are not the design intent of the queue.
One queue you murder things for as long as you can. The other queue you murder things for 20 minutes. This is clearly stated in the description of both queues.
I presume you have documentation of this desing intent? Do share.
Since you've already stated the intent before, can you show your documentation?
I did not claim to know the designers intent. That there exist a queue that has a time cap and one that can, theoretically, go on forever naturally indicates one is expected to be shorter than the other (short vs long queus). That this division is motivated by the reasonable goal of separating players wanting to go the distance from those wanting to claim their event token quickly thus reducing customer complaints is a logical inference.
The way I would understand the "timed" version - but this is more a "how I would use it" than a "that's the rule others have to follow" - is a way to guarantee a somewhat reliable end, e. g. when you've got something else to do and want a guaranteed time to start it.
What would be the point of that? A team can somewhat reliably end the mission any time they want.
On the other hand, a separate queue for the "die at 5" people so they don't ruin serious runs makes perfect sense and quite frankly should've been included in the first run of Sompek.
I very much doubt that there is a design intent on any MMO which is specifically "give some guys their rewards for as little work as possible". Except maybe to get some players out of the way of the enjoyment others may have. But generally my experience is that companies will rather make things harder for the quick players, what with the much maligned metrics and stuff.
On the contrary, most of STO missions in general and all event missions in specific seem to be designed to guarantee everyone can get their rewards with as little requirements as possible. Only Elite missions contain fail conditions at all and very few missions have obstacles to get stuck at, barring a team of extremely low DPS players unable to defeat boss encounters. Several missions can be completely won simply by waiting out timers. Most famously the First Contact Day event this year, in which nothing the players did affected the outcome in any way. Not even accolades.
It's quite obvious the main goal of event design in STO must be to encourage maximum participation, not to provide a challenge.
Even Sompek itself shows this. As I already said, if the mission designer didn't want players to suicide at wave 5, they wouldn't have put the main reward at wave 5. They could've put the reward at lasting 20 minutes. But then a lot of people wouldn't have been able to make it.
First Contact Day, I remember that well. How many times my Characters got injured because the slackers rockets blew up right above us upon launch.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yes, streching the short queue to 20 minutes just for laughs at other players expense is selfish.
There are separate short and long queue specifically to account for players' different goals (trying to get far vs just picking up the event token).
To be honest i have had one run in which the rest of the team died in round two and never respawned in the timed version.
At that time i said "F it" and made sure the run went on for the full 20 minutes with my tanking engineer.
People should not expect a quick milk run even in timed.
Hehe I like that.
I just completed another Sompek run. 4 players (including myself) who really wanted to play and one player whose first comment in chat was that he was going to die after five rounds, in the unlimited version.
We did quite well, only some unlucky hits by Vaadwaur Supervisors did us in. We may have gotten much further (and completed all rounds much easier) if that one player hadn't just been standing around after the fifth round though.
That only works if players see chat and can reply. Case in point. I started Sompek, asked about finishing after lvl 5, and discovered I was 'silenced'. Never encountered that before, not entirely sure what that means, but seems like chat doesn't function while silence is on. Means I can't see what's being said, and can't reply. I wanted a fast run so died and didn't bother respawning, but it wasn't clear what my team was doing. Some were dying, some weren't. I was busy trying to find out what silence was so not paying a great deal of attention so ended up with an AFK penalty when it finally finished.
Always seems to be 1 or 2 that refuse to stop after level. K we get it, you have 0 friends and want some company but cmon 5x a night?
If I want to do a fast run, I politely ask at the start of the mission. Majority rules though.
If you want a guaranteed fast run, then I suggest you get some like minded players together to form a "suicide squad" to play the mission.
I was in a mission about 1 hour ago where one player wanted to end the mission at round 5. However, the rest of us were having fun. The player decided to quit the mission at about the 11 minute mark.
First Contact Day, I remember that well. How many times my Characters got injured because the slackers rockets blew up right above us upon launch.
Yeah, First Contact Day was the only event I slacked off in because my non-participation did affect the mission for the other players.
Did any level of participation matter? At any rate I eventually decided the best course was to make a rocket then wait and not try to make it the best it could be.
That only works if players see chat and can reply. Case in point. I started Sompek, asked about finishing after lvl 5, and discovered I was 'silenced'. Never encountered that before, not entirely sure what that means, but seems like chat doesn't function while silence is on. Means I can't see what's being said, and can't reply. I wanted a fast run so died and didn't bother respawning, but it wasn't clear what my team was doing. Some were dying, some weren't. I was busy trying to find out what silence was so not paying a great deal of attention so ended up with an AFK penalty when it finally finished.
means you got muted. someone put you on ignore would be my guess. probably didnt want to hear you TRIBBLE about folks going over 5 rounds.
For me, it depends on the mood of the team, and the available time i got for play (its not much), so i go to the timed version. If a lot of players want to die at 5, i'm happy to oblige, if more than half want to keep playing, i keep playing, thou sometimes when i die, i take that time to go to the bathroom or something and return to play, until we finish the time or we die..
I thought I being polite by asking in the TIMED queue whether everyone wanted to do 5 and die or full 20 minutes since there seems to be some variation. I was happy to do either and stated as much. I just hate wasting effort one way or the other.
I had some lunatic go off on me, arguing that 5 and die is supposed to use the untimed queue - which makes absolutely no sense. IF (and that's a big IF) you accept that some folks will grind for rewards and only do minimum, they certainly shouldn't be doing it in the untimed queue - though that clearly is what A LOT of people are doing. I have people die and quit in 5 in at least one-third of the untimed queues.
But here is the interesting part. He claimed that the rewards are different (and better) if you finish the TIMED queue.
I haven't noticed any difference other than what you'd get from completing more rounds. Are the rewards different?
I thought I being polite by asking in the TIMED queue whether everyone wanted to do 5 and die or full 20 minutes since there seems to be some variation. I was happy to do either and stated as much. I just hate wasting effort one way or the other.
I had some lunatic go off on me, arguing that 5 and die is supposed to use the untimed queue - which makes absolutely no sense. IF (and that's a big IF) you accept that some folks will grind for rewards and only do minimum, they certainly shouldn't be doing it in the untimed queue - though that clearly is what A LOT of people are doing. I have people die and quit in 5 in at least one-third of the untimed queues.
But here is the interesting part. He claimed that the rewards are different (and better) if you finish the TIMED queue.
I haven't noticed any difference other than what you'd get from completing more rounds. Are the rewards different?
Nope, no difference, i play timed because i know the allowed time for play, no surprises, better if its less. but whatever.. anyway, there is no difference in rewards...
Comments
Lolwut?
So someone continuing to play until the end of the timer is selfish.....
But yet you insisting they stop an suicide at x level to suit your needs is fine......ok dude, i'll have whatever you're smoking please.
There are separate short and long queue specifically to account for players' different goals (trying to get far vs just picking up the event token).
The waters a sludgey green already.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
they should set up 20 mins to be 20 mins, even if all team members only the timer will stop... if you abandon you get jack. you need to finish 20 mins for it to end and get reward.
frankly they set up the wrong ques for this... 1st should be complete 5 waves and end, 2nd should be unlimited with afk penalty.
if they had set up the 2 ques like this then folks wouldnt be bitchy about it.
OP then complains that other players who are playing the mission to the best of their abilities are wrong.
So let me get this straight.
You go to play a 20 min mission.. But you don't want to play 20 min.. You want to play just a few rounds. So everyone else is doing it wrong?
People who play this game, never cease to amaze me what they choose to complain about. And then shift the blame onto Perfect World Entertainment and the developers. It makes me think this game has the WORST players ever.
No one is forcing you to play Sompek.
You cannot complain OP because of other players playing the mission as intended and having fun. Because you want just "skip" through the game.
Please get it togheter OP.
No one is arguing that "stretching out the length of the queue for the lulz is totally ok". Players are saying "the event is fun; I enjoy jumping into a 20 min event and shooting things".
Your goals are not the design intent of the queue.
One queue you murder things for as long as you can. The other queue you murder things for 20 minutes. This is clearly stated in the description of both queues.
In fact, nothing stops you from applying your goals to either style of queue.
> OP goes to play a completely voluntary mission/event that is set for 20 minutes.
>
> OP then complains that other players who are playing the mission to the best of their abilities are wrong.
>
> So let me get this straight.
>
> You go to play a 20 min mission.. But you don't want to play 20 min.. You want to play just a few rounds. So everyone else is doing it wrong?
>
> People who play this game, never cease to amaze me what they choose to complain about. And then shift the blame onto Perfect World Entertainment and the developers. It makes me think this game has the WORST players ever.
>
> No one is forcing you to play Sompek.
>
> You cannot complain OP because of other players playing the mission as intended and having fun. Because you want just "skip" through the game.
>
> Please get it togheter OP.
Must be a dev.
I presume you have documentation of this desing intent? Do share.
In any case, that's irrelevant. Ultimately the players decide how it's played. If the mission designer didn't want players to quit after wave 5, they shouldn't have placed the main reward at wave 5.
I'm not touching this event but with my 22 chars at 15 mins or 20 whichever it really is way too damn long. Now imagine others with 40-50 chars.
I'm only doing it on one
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Original STO beta tester.
You have that backwards. I've yet to have a group that takes over 3 minutes to finish round 4, and I've also yet to have a group that goes the distance get past round 27. The reward for that extra 16 or so minutes is 0 more dilithium, 56 more marks (less than double the amount from finishing round 4) and an upgrade of the Normal Weekend bonus materials box to an Elite Weekend bonus materials box.
I've really only seen the polarization on the forums. I've done 136 of the timed version now and seen 3 short, snide comments of disagreement over how long the run was going to go. I'd seen more complaints during Breach and Mirror this year about AFKers than I've see about this. The forums have a way of magnifying the small things to unreasonable size. This is a tempest in a teacup.
On the contrary, we have documentation that states designer intent quite well. They specifically designed it to give no rewards if you don't finish round 4, and stated as much in the blog. Their intent was to get players to do something to earn their reward, and that something is finishing 4 rounds.
OP: You have no right to tell others in a queue that you didn't form yourself how to play.
People who disagree with the way the OP and others want to complete this task: The same goes to you.
It's just common sense, really.
Quite frankly, 20 minutes is a good endurance test because that's how it's designed
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Though i do wish we had three options for this stf/mission, which was timed (20-min), unlimited, and then a grinder type that you play up to round five for those that want to just get the merit.
Since you've already stated the intent before, can you show your documentation?
The way I would understand the "timed" version - but this is more a "how I would use it" than a "that's the rule others have to follow" - is a way to guarantee a somewhat reliable end, e. g. when you've got something else to do and want a guaranteed time to start it.
I very much doubt that there is a design intent on any MMO which is specifically "give some guys their rewards for as little work as possible". Except maybe to get some players out of the way of the enjoyment others may have. But generally my experience is that companies will rather make things harder for the quick players, what with the much maligned metrics and stuff.
But no, I have no inside information whatsoever.
To be honest i have had one run in which the rest of the team died in round two and never respawned in the timed version.
At that time i said "F it" and made sure the run went on for the full 20 minutes with my tanking engineer.
People should not expect a quick milk run even in timed.
What would be the point of that? A team can somewhat reliably end the mission any time they want.
On the other hand, a separate queue for the "die at 5" people so they don't ruin serious runs makes perfect sense and quite frankly should've been included in the first run of Sompek.
On the contrary, most of STO missions in general and all event missions in specific seem to be designed to guarantee everyone can get their rewards with as little requirements as possible. Only Elite missions contain fail conditions at all and very few missions have obstacles to get stuck at, barring a team of extremely low DPS players unable to defeat boss encounters. Several missions can be completely won simply by waiting out timers. Most famously the First Contact Day event this year, in which nothing the players did affected the outcome in any way. Not even accolades.
It's quite obvious the main goal of event design in STO must be to encourage maximum participation, not to provide a challenge.
Even Sompek itself shows this. As I already said, if the mission designer didn't want players to suicide at wave 5, they wouldn't have put the main reward at wave 5. They could've put the reward at lasting 20 minutes. But then a lot of people wouldn't have been able to make it.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Hehe I like that.
I just completed another Sompek run. 4 players (including myself) who really wanted to play and one player whose first comment in chat was that he was going to die after five rounds, in the unlimited version.
We did quite well, only some unlucky hits by Vaadwaur Supervisors did us in. We may have gotten much further (and completed all rounds much easier) if that one player hadn't just been standing around after the fifth round though.
Yeah, First Contact Day was the only event I slacked off in because my non-participation did affect the mission for the other players.
My character Tsin'xing
means you got muted. someone put you on ignore would be my guess. probably didnt want to hear you TRIBBLE about folks going over 5 rounds.
I had some lunatic go off on me, arguing that 5 and die is supposed to use the untimed queue - which makes absolutely no sense. IF (and that's a big IF) you accept that some folks will grind for rewards and only do minimum, they certainly shouldn't be doing it in the untimed queue - though that clearly is what A LOT of people are doing. I have people die and quit in 5 in at least one-third of the untimed queues.
But here is the interesting part. He claimed that the rewards are different (and better) if you finish the TIMED queue.
I haven't noticed any difference other than what you'd get from completing more rounds. Are the rewards different?
Nope, no difference, i play timed because i know the allowed time for play, no surprises, better if its less. but whatever.. anyway, there is no difference in rewards...
My character Tsin'xing
Managed to get 24 rounds done myself with a group in timed. Was loads of fun