@brian334
Now I am going to start by saying I do not know how to build a torp build at all. So if what I ask is too obvious or stupid please bear that in mind.
Now it seems to me for torps you want those forward. and you are advocating beam arrays. Which to get the timing would also be forward. Given the level here. Why not a 360 beam? You could have a phaser and a kinetic cutter at this level. (Not sure if agony 360 can go with regular phaser 360.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Most torp builds have negligible beam damage. Any beams equipped on a torp boat are either for procs or for set bonuses. A 360 beam in that case isn't always an option since a set or a certain beam with a proc might not have a 360 variant.
360 beams work quite well, and could be slotted anywhere. The main purpose of energy weapons on a torp boat is to proc SST powers.
I keep two torps forward and two aft so I can fire faster than the cooldown of a single launcher allows. This also allows me to wait until the 29th second of a Torp Spread's cooldown, fire a volley, then with my second copy of Torp Spread I can fire a second volley when the global Torp cooldown expires. I usually turn away and finish with a pair of torps from the rear. Be prepared for everything on the map to shoot at you after you do that!
You may choose to go with three torps and three omni beams/turrets to increase your odds of an SST proc, or slide that Vaudwaar Cluster Torp up front and put a pair of 360 weapons aft. There are many options, many of which have been posted on the forums. I've even heard that torp boats can do well as a DPS build.
I want to emphasize that I am by no means an expert. Guys using my playstyle have done much much better than I do, and my Torpedo Boat is a relic preserved from my days in the PvP queues, (Chronitons are awesome!) so it doesn't take advantage of equipment that came out since I was using it competatively. I have just never found it necessary to upgrade it very much because it still gets the job done.
Personally, I've found SST you be less important in a modern torp build than it was before due to the number of shield pen sources, strength of shield drains and the various procs available from specialty torps. Even on my Sci ships I rarely use SST in PvE even after they got buffed in S13.
True enough, I suppose, but it seems to me to be beneficial to use both. Even if a ship's shields are down, dropping it's shield power slows recovery time, creating a longer window of opportunity to kill it. I wouldn't advocate a ship which doesn't offer SST have a Tac BOff slot SST, but it's free and your torp boat is already running weapons power at minimum, so the damage penalty for using it is negligible, and the payoff can be huge.
I forgot to note in response to @feiqa that the Kinetic Cutting Beam doesn't work with a lot of powers, including SST.
While there are lots of AoE damage torps out there, I want to point out a mutant among the performance values. Kelvin Timeline photon torpedoes are ridiculously strong due to a quirk of their built-in tag: [reload]. Its a flat -2 seconds to cooldown which would be negligible on many torpedo types but applied to the base 6 second cooldown for photon torpedoes, that tag is a +50% DPS bonus.
They might not meet your needs on a predominantly-torp build, but they're devastating as the single projectile in a energy/projectile hybrid load out to get torp procs feeding your energy weapons. Combine them with the super charged weapons trait for good fun.
While there are lots of AoE damage torps out there, I want to point out a mutant among the performance values. Kelvin Timeline photon torpedoes are ridiculously strong due to a quirk of their built-in tag: [reload]. Its a flat -2 seconds to cooldown which would be negligible on many torpedo types but applied to the base 6 second cooldown for photon torpedoes, that tag is a +50% DPS bonus.
They might not meet your needs on a predominantly-torp build, but they're devastating as the single projectile in a energy/projectile hybrid load out to get torp procs feeding your energy weapons. Combine them with the super charged weapons trait for good fun.
Personally, I prefer the missles to that torp if i need a fast reload projectile. For one thing, one of them is free and it will load up super charged weaponry faster. Also it as a 180 degree fire arc...which means faster charge once again. And finally, they look cool. But honestly, I like grav torps for super charged weaponry build up. Why? Because grav torps need TS to really pile on the goodness and TS triggers full 3 charges super charged weaponry.
Try it with 2x Kelvins, for a 2sec cd each: Super Charged Weaponry, ftw!
Or, you can have two missles for even faster. Honestly tho, nothing quite beats a combo of omega and romulan hypers with 3 VR projectile doffs for torpedo launching funess. In the rare case that your hyper isn't cooldown to zero, you use a couple stack of the omega to trigger the cooldown.
How did you manage 2 missiles?! You can slot only 1 Kentari missile launcher. Or did you include the Ferengi (Lobi) console or something?
Or, you can have two missles for even faster. Honestly tho, nothing quite beats a combo of omega and romulan hypers with 3 VR projectile doffs for torpedo launching funess. In the rare case that your hyper isn't cooldown to zero, you use a couple stack of the omega to trigger the cooldown.
How did you manage 2 missiles?! You can slot only 1 Kentari missile launcher. Or did you include the Ferengi (Lobi) console or something?
Yeah one kentari, one ferengi.
Cool, thx. Thinking of the missile 'swarm' console from the Ferengi Nagus marauder, I always thought that Lobi missile thing was a console too. Guess I need to get me one of those now too.
So, if one were to build out a Jupiter as a Tricobalt Torp Boat, or at least using the Vaudwaar Cluster Torpedo, (which can be buffed by T:HY,) and still retain the ability to benefit from its pets, how would one go about it?
Assume I have very little money or dil, zero experience in torping or in carrier pets, and focus on why you chose a particular item based on its interactions with other stuff.
So, if one were to build out a Jupiter as a Tricobalt Torp Boat, or at least using the Vaudwaar Cluster Torpedo, (which can be buffed by T:HY,) and still retain the ability to benefit from its pets, how would one go about it?
Assume I have very little money or dil, zero experience in torping or in carrier pets, and focus on why you chose a particular item based on its interactions with other stuff.
So, if one were to build out a Jupiter as a Tricobalt Torp Boat, or at least using the Vaudwaar Cluster Torpedo, (which can be buffed by T:HY,) and still retain the ability to benefit from its pets, how would one go about it?
Assume I have very little money or dil, zero experience in torping or in carrier pets, and focus on why you chose a particular item based on its interactions with other stuff.
And too bad about the money, as I just saw they released a new Tricobalt torp in the Lobi store. But first things first, of course.
Now look at that, it's my Vesta. I am extremely happy with how it performs and would suggest it to anyone, but... it can get really expensive following it. So after you've read the link to my "high-end" torpedo guide, I'll guide you through a thought process for a cheaper, "entry level" torpedo boat on Jupiter.
I feel the need to say though, that for an entry level Torp-boat, Transphasic is really the preferred choice due to Breen set's 2pc giving +Transphasic damage, and there are plenty of good Transphasic torpedoes available from missions.
Going further away from entry level, Tricobalts still remain a bad option, due to their really long CD and being destructible even in their normal form.
However, if you insist on Tricobalt and Vaadwaur Cluster Torpedo, fair enough, load those up to fore, alongside Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo (mk XII VR version will do, and it will cost only 1m EC max, currently they are going for as low as 750k) - this torpedo is extremely valuable when you have a sufficiently high EPG (Exotic Particle Generator) number.
Aft weapons, at this point you can use whatever Turrets and/or Omni-Directional Beams you can get from mission drops/rewards.
Next, grab Solanae Deflector Array, alongside Quantum Phase Impulse Engines and Shields (although, for engines and shields, Kobali or Sol Defense variants would work too). If you already have some Omega marks and Dilithium, grab Adapted M.A.C.O. Engines and Shields from Omega reputation.
In Engineering Consoles - RCS Accelerator, Trellium-D Plating and House Martok console
Science Consoles - Temporal Disentanglement Suite, Temporally Shielded Datacore, 2x Particle Generator (Mk XII are less than their vendor value in exchange). If you have fleet credits and dilithium, grab 2 Exotic Particle Focusers and 2 Restorative Particle Focusers from Research Lab.
Tactical Consoles - Chronometric Capacitor, whatever Jupiter's Universal console was called, Warhead Yield Chamber (mk XII should be very cheap on exchange)
BOFF powers:
Lt. Tac: Tactical Team, Torpedo Spread
Lt. Universal (tactical): Tactical Team, Torpedo Spread or Torpedo High Yield
Lt. Cmdr. Engineering: Engineering Team, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field, Reverse Shield Polarity
Cmdr. Science: Science Team, Hazard Emitters, Destabilizing Resonance Beam, Gravity Well
Lt. Science: Transfer Shield Strenght, Tyken's Rift
And there you go, a ship built out of almost only mission drops. EC cost shouldn't be much more than 1m.
Now, why those choices?
As Jupiter is still a science-heavy boat, I took the liberty of showing the route to exotic damage build. However, at the same time, I tried to keep it as cheap as possible, using mainly gear pieces you can get from Storyline missions.
Equipment pieces are chosen to either boost EPG count, Turn rate (Jupiter lacks that) or survivability; in some cases also Torpedo damage. BOFF abilities are chosen to take advantage from that EPG count you just boosted with damaging science abilities, or also keeping survivability in mind.
With this kind of build, you should be totally ready to tackle any advanced queue in game.
However, keep in mind that this is only a single way to build that ship, and there are plenty of other routes you can take. Exotic-torp builds are just those that I personally am most familiar with.
My personal play style is to build tanks (so first instinct reactions are based on that, however miss-managed threat has now become), and generally if you want 'pet support' (not much of it exists anyway) you need to make some sacrifices.
Personally I have the mindset that pets are supposed to support the main build, rather than the main build support the pets; it's one based on mechanics.
There is a way to go about this, but the unfortunate reality is that tricobalts don't have a lot of supporting things in today's game. Ideally we'd have sets and consoles that appeal to every type of weapon.
Tricobalts are even worse in the world of damage since their recharge is a phenomenal 30s with of waiting. I use something called an uptime calculation to determine which is better.
For a 1 shot in 30s we have a 1/30 or 3.333%. Compared to something with a 10s recharge of 1/10 or 10%, there's a huge gap in performance. The 10s torp fires 3 times faster and therefore has a 3 times larger uptime. The only way for a tricobalt to match the damage performance of the 10s torp is if it has a 3x larger base; which unfortunately we don't see, it's something like a 1.25x base.
Ultimately this means that having a tricobalt, however amazing it might appear, is a worse performer than this 10s torp; and it follows that the more times you can fire a torp, the better it is (hence why we want to get as many PWO doff procs as possible).
Then we get to the issue of travel time; something tricobalts are demonstrably bad at. Usually by the time a tricobalt gets to where it wanted to be, half tube things have died — an even bigger issue wit high DPSers.
The 'simple solution' is to not use tricobalts and all (especially mine torps since you not only have Torpedo travel time, you have mine activation time). While I don't know the reason for using them, after you have some more resources you can go back to experimenting with them; for now I suggest you move to a more similar style of weapon; Transphasics.
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Transphasics were the powerhouse torpedo for a long time; they offer mild damage with +40% shield pen (which for torpedoes are a huge benefit). On top of that there are several free sets/set pieces that have or include benefits for Transphasics.
The Reaonant Torpedo had a chance to create an AOE physical damage around a target, with a set that focuses on disruptors and Transphasics. There's a free Transphasics with a lower than standard CD (Rapid Reload) which has near Quantum level recharge speed with higher damage to hull.
The Breen Equipment 2pc offers a buff to Transphasics, with the resonant console buffing both Disruptor and Transphasic damage, as well as a passive Armour pen bonus.
A disruptors bonus can be found in the house Martok Set (which also features a console and a CrtH bonus).
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For the pet aspect there's not much available outside of running controls and drains; which the Jupiter can do quite well.
Stacking CtrlX allows a GW3 to pull from great distances, and stacking DrainX allows for Charged Particle Burst to deal damage to shields around the player.
The Jupiter has access to the only Fed-only Frigate pet (Calistoes) which at elite are amazing.
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With regards to BOff layout, the best I can advocate for is to use readiness to reduce your tactical powers to a point where they can be used every 22-25s (which is more than enough for the Jupiter).
- House Martok Omni - Kentari Rapid Missile launcher - Chronometric Turret
Equipment would see:
- Solanae Deflector - Breen Engines - A Warp core of your choice - Breen shield
This layout gives a buff to Torps, as well as some +EPG/DrainX
Console wise for Eng:
- House Martok Console - Trillium-D console - Fleet Coordination Console (inherent with Jupiter)
For Sci I would fill in with reslab consoles (which are fairly cheap) with the banks a of your choice.
Tac would see a +Torp/Transphasic console (fleet or elsewhere), the Resonant Console, and to fill in The last spot; the Chronometric Capacitor.
You'll also need to get projectile Weapon DOffs which reduce the CD on torps. You can buy VR ones from the Omega Rep store, and you get some during the Jem'Hadar missions, as well as "Law" from nimbus.
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If I was going to go for the top of the line end all and be all of Jupiter torp builds I would do it significantly different, but this should be fairly good for On-A-budget.
[Edit] - Minor corrections to spelling, Martok from tricobalt to transphasic.
Post edited by alcaatraz on
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I do not believe that the Vaad Cluster torp can be enhanced by HY (I haven't been in the game in a while, so something could have changed).
For a Jupiter, you can load up on Sci abilities and boost EPG/Drain or Drain/CtrlX, 1 crafted TriC (DMGx3Pen would be my recommendation), Temporal Disruption Device (Lobi. Non-lobi alternative would be Gravimetric), and Vaad Cluster Torp (Mine launcher). Launch the Vaad either ahead of your GWell (which should be the target of the GWell), or as a finisher when it's near big targets, as it takes a while to deploy the mines.
Depending on your Sci focus (EPG/Drain/CtrlX pick 1-2), you can use TSx TriC's/TDD/Grav to hit any targets stuck in your GWells, drain shields, or do raw damage to them, and have the torps finish them off. Save the HYx for big targets, OR if the smaller targets are very tightly (1km) bunched up. Well-timed shots will have you grinning like a mad maniac with a menacing mug.
Moving a big tub like that requires some planning, and/or use of consoles to help boost maneuverability, so build/pilot accordingly.
PS: The Devs REALLY need to fix TriC's w/ Concentrate Firepower. It's been bugged for far too long. Make it work like the rest of the crafted torps, as I hate seeing that the TriC icon tells me I'm eligible to fire a HY1 TriC, but I can't because there's a forced countdown timer on the TriC. I bet someone hard-coded that timer in.....
I do not believe that the Vaad Cluster torp can be enhanced by HY (I haven't been in the game in a while, so something could have changed)...
Its description says it can, becoming effectively a Tric Torp that procs a dispersed minefield. We all know that Wiki and Item descriptions are always accurate!
I also note your sig with the link to the Torp/GalX & Torp Tutorial. May I ask how up to date this is?
I do not believe that the Vaad Cluster torp can be enhanced by HY (I haven't been in the game in a while, so something could have changed)...
Its description says it can, becoming effectively a Tric Torp that procs a dispersed minefield. We all know that Wiki and Item descriptions are always accurate!
I also note your sig with the link to the Torp/GalX & Torp Tutorial. May I ask how up to date this is?
The Vaad torp is a mine delivery system by default. It may emulate a HY torp in travel (and does damage as one if someone foolish enough flies into it before it is in range of the the intended target), but as of the last time I fired it, it wasn't enhanced by BOff torp abilities.
Aside from the OKS change, the pre-queue nerf of TS/HY, and the corrected change to Guk (DOff), it's still valid. Some gear can be used in place of others for either improved defense and maneuverability, or offense and utility. I tried to weave in the mechanics along with the build theme, so that you can use various build themes and still be effective in combat. If anything needs to be explained out in detail, or warrants an update, please let me know.
If the developers wanted people to run torp builds they wouldn't have nerfed THY and kinetic shearing into the ground for no discernable reason.
It's unwise to invest in a build the devs disapprove of.
OKS did need the change, but the 40% was there to cover up a lot of bugs/mistakes. Some of the issues have been corrected, and the Grav Torp received both a fix and a buff (now one torps within a spread group procs a rift 100% of the time), but that mechanic needs to be applied to other torps that have had such an effect removed from them (looking at Quantum Phase and Neutronic). Furthermore, torpedo throughput received a huge hit with the lockout between TS/HY, severely crippling the strength of torp boats; spike damage.
The Balance Pass overall is great in concept, and fixed quite a few issues, but feels incomplete with respect to both PvE and PvP. Specific to torpedoes and mines, Borticus said it himself on multiple podcasts, "torps are hard."
There is at least one way to make torps not OP, yet not suck or be relegated to simple-mindedness (as they are now).
The Balance Pass overall is great in concept, and fixed quite a few issues, but feels incomplete with respect to both PvE and PvP. Specific to torpedoes and mines, Borticus said it himself on multiple podcasts, "torps are hard."
There is at least one way to make torps not OP, yet not suck or be relegated to simple-mindedness (as they are now).
The Balance Pass overall is great in concept, and fixed quite a few issues, but feels incomplete with respect to both PvE and PvP. Specific to torpedoes and mines, Borticus said it himself on multiple podcasts, "torps are hard."
There is at least one way to make torps not OP, yet not suck or be relegated to simple-mindedness (as they are now).
The Balance Pass overall is great in concept, and fixed quite a few issues, but feels incomplete with respect to both PvE and PvP. Specific to torpedoes and mines, Borticus said it himself on multiple podcasts, "torps are hard."
There is at least one way to make torps not OP, yet not suck or be relegated to simple-mindedness (as they are now).
How?!
How, referring to which (or all)?
To "There is at least one way to make torps not OP, yet not suck or be relegated to simple-mindedness." You kinda left us hanging there.
Test...
My entire post was deleted? It was posted, and then I edited it for clarification, saved it, then refreshed the page. I come back to this and it's gone.
*sigh*
OK, short, short version. There were several good suggestions made by various people throughout the last three years. Two good ones I think were from VirusDancer, so I'll do a search later and see if I can find them. One of the most repeated ones, "make a dedicated torpedo slot" seems to have manifested itself into the "Heavy Weapon Slot". Based off of Dev feedback and intent, this was to help equalize Escorts with Cruisers, but some will argue that it's a partial wish come true (note: I did not advocate for this).
1. Standardize torp secondary effects for all targets. If Gravimetric can proc on all targets AND have an AoE proc, why can't Neutronic, Quantum Phase, & Piezo work on all targets in a TS (Torpedo Spread)? My suggestion was to remove the AoE component for all three, and treat all targets like the main target. PS: fix Neutronic drain proc under TS.
2. Buff base damage of Transphasics, and for each Mark level increase.
3. It was explained that the torpedo flight speed was (either in part or in full) tied to the FX of the torpedo. Change the flight speed by moving it from an FX attribute to a system attribute AND allow haste to increase torpedo flight speed. Also, allow Torpedo Pre-Fire Sequence (TPFS) to boost flight speed for all torps, and the Reman 2pc to properly stack with TPFS to boost Plasma Torp speed, giving Plasma Torps a unique advantage over other torps (especially heavies). this adds to build variety, thematic feel, and viability.
4. Fix TriCobalt to work properly with Concentrate Firepower.
5. Command Tree tier One: Increase chance of Expose/Exploit proc to 5%/7.5% and/or allow Expose/Exploit attacks to proc for all classes of weapons. This happened once accidentally with the Quantum Phase torpedo proc, where the shield drain component proc'd Expose/Exploit attacks (this only lasted for one week before being fixed in a patch).
6. Removed the shared lockout between TS and HY.
7. Fix/Remove Accuracy for Heavy torps (aka Targetable aka Destructable torps). If it's too much to make them work as pets, re-code them to track like standard torps. If the main target dies, go to last location and detonate as if there was a target there, allowing it to hit secondary targets.
I'll remember more of what I wrote as it comes back to me. If you need the reasoning behind each change explained, please feel free to ask.
Comments
Now I am going to start by saying I do not know how to build a torp build at all. So if what I ask is too obvious or stupid please bear that in mind.
Now it seems to me for torps you want those forward. and you are advocating beam arrays. Which to get the timing would also be forward. Given the level here. Why not a 360 beam? You could have a phaser and a kinetic cutter at this level. (Not sure if agony 360 can go with regular phaser 360.)
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
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I keep two torps forward and two aft so I can fire faster than the cooldown of a single launcher allows. This also allows me to wait until the 29th second of a Torp Spread's cooldown, fire a volley, then with my second copy of Torp Spread I can fire a second volley when the global Torp cooldown expires. I usually turn away and finish with a pair of torps from the rear. Be prepared for everything on the map to shoot at you after you do that!
You may choose to go with three torps and three omni beams/turrets to increase your odds of an SST proc, or slide that Vaudwaar Cluster Torp up front and put a pair of 360 weapons aft. There are many options, many of which have been posted on the forums. I've even heard that torp boats can do well as a DPS build.
I want to emphasize that I am by no means an expert. Guys using my playstyle have done much much better than I do, and my Torpedo Boat is a relic preserved from my days in the PvP queues, (Chronitons are awesome!) so it doesn't take advantage of equipment that came out since I was using it competatively. I have just never found it necessary to upgrade it very much because it still gets the job done.
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I forgot to note in response to @feiqa that the Kinetic Cutting Beam doesn't work with a lot of powers, including SST.
They might not meet your needs on a predominantly-torp build, but they're devastating as the single projectile in a energy/projectile hybrid load out to get torp procs feeding your energy weapons. Combine them with the super charged weapons trait for good fun.
Try it with 2x Kelvins, for a 2sec cd each: Super Charged Weaponry, ftw!
How did you manage 2 missiles?! You can slot only 1 Kentari missile launcher. Or did you include the Ferengi (Lobi) console or something?
Cool, thx.
Assume I have very little money or dil, zero experience in torping or in carrier pets, and focus on why you chose a particular item based on its interactions with other stuff.
Personally, I know sh*t.
And too bad about the money, as I just saw they released a new Tricobalt torp in the Lobi store. But first things first, of course.
Now look at that, it's my Vesta.
I feel the need to say though, that for an entry level Torp-boat, Transphasic is really the preferred choice due to Breen set's 2pc giving +Transphasic damage, and there are plenty of good Transphasic torpedoes available from missions.
Going further away from entry level, Tricobalts still remain a bad option, due to their really long CD and being destructible even in their normal form.
However, if you insist on Tricobalt and Vaadwaur Cluster Torpedo, fair enough, load those up to fore, alongside Particle Emission Plasma Torpedo (mk XII VR version will do, and it will cost only 1m EC max, currently they are going for as low as 750k) - this torpedo is extremely valuable when you have a sufficiently high EPG (Exotic Particle Generator) number.
Aft weapons, at this point you can use whatever Turrets and/or Omni-Directional Beams you can get from mission drops/rewards.
Next, grab Solanae Deflector Array, alongside Quantum Phase Impulse Engines and Shields (although, for engines and shields, Kobali or Sol Defense variants would work too). If you already have some Omega marks and Dilithium, grab Adapted M.A.C.O. Engines and Shields from Omega reputation.
In Engineering Consoles - RCS Accelerator, Trellium-D Plating and House Martok console
Science Consoles - Temporal Disentanglement Suite, Temporally Shielded Datacore, 2x Particle Generator (Mk XII are less than their vendor value in exchange). If you have fleet credits and dilithium, grab 2 Exotic Particle Focusers and 2 Restorative Particle Focusers from Research Lab.
Tactical Consoles - Chronometric Capacitor, whatever Jupiter's Universal console was called, Warhead Yield Chamber (mk XII should be very cheap on exchange)
BOFF powers:
Lt. Tac: Tactical Team, Torpedo Spread
Lt. Universal (tactical): Tactical Team, Torpedo Spread or Torpedo High Yield
Lt. Cmdr. Engineering: Engineering Team, Auxiliary to Structural Integrity Field, Reverse Shield Polarity
Cmdr. Science: Science Team, Hazard Emitters, Destabilizing Resonance Beam, Gravity Well
Lt. Science: Transfer Shield Strenght, Tyken's Rift
As it's an entry-level build, I think I won't go into traits too much, however if one is interested, everything necessary can be found...
https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/build_anatomy/traits/space
https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/build_anatomy/traits/reputation
And there you go, a ship built out of almost only mission drops. EC cost shouldn't be much more than 1m.
Now, why those choices?
As Jupiter is still a science-heavy boat, I took the liberty of showing the route to exotic damage build. However, at the same time, I tried to keep it as cheap as possible, using mainly gear pieces you can get from Storyline missions.
Equipment pieces are chosen to either boost EPG count, Turn rate (Jupiter lacks that) or survivability; in some cases also Torpedo damage. BOFF abilities are chosen to take advantage from that EPG count you just boosted with damaging science abilities, or also keeping survivability in mind.
With this kind of build, you should be totally ready to tackle any advanced queue in game.
However, keep in mind that this is only a single way to build that ship, and there are plenty of other routes you can take. Exotic-torp builds are just those that I personally am most familiar with.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
My personal play style is to build tanks (so first instinct reactions are based on that, however miss-managed threat has now become), and generally if you want 'pet support' (not much of it exists anyway) you need to make some sacrifices.
Personally I have the mindset that pets are supposed to support the main build, rather than the main build support the pets; it's one based on mechanics.
There is a way to go about this, but the unfortunate reality is that tricobalts don't have a lot of supporting things in today's game. Ideally we'd have sets and consoles that appeal to every type of weapon.
Tricobalts are even worse in the world of damage since their recharge is a phenomenal 30s with of waiting. I use something called an uptime calculation to determine which is better.
For a 1 shot in 30s we have a 1/30 or 3.333%. Compared to something with a 10s recharge of 1/10 or 10%, there's a huge gap in performance. The 10s torp fires 3 times faster and therefore has a 3 times larger uptime. The only way for a tricobalt to match the damage performance of the 10s torp is if it has a 3x larger base; which unfortunately we don't see, it's something like a 1.25x base.
Ultimately this means that having a tricobalt, however amazing it might appear, is a worse performer than this 10s torp; and it follows that the more times you can fire a torp, the better it is (hence why we want to get as many PWO doff procs as possible).
Then we get to the issue of travel time; something tricobalts are demonstrably bad at. Usually by the time a tricobalt gets to where it wanted to be, half tube things have died — an even bigger issue wit high DPSers.
The 'simple solution' is to not use tricobalts and all (especially mine torps since you not only have Torpedo travel time, you have mine activation time). While I don't know the reason for using them, after you have some more resources you can go back to experimenting with them; for now I suggest you move to a more similar style of weapon; Transphasics.
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Transphasics were the powerhouse torpedo for a long time; they offer mild damage with +40% shield pen (which for torpedoes are a huge benefit). On top of that there are several free sets/set pieces that have or include benefits for Transphasics.
The Reaonant Torpedo had a chance to create an AOE physical damage around a target, with a set that focuses on disruptors and Transphasics. There's a free Transphasics with a lower than standard CD (Rapid Reload) which has near Quantum level recharge speed with higher damage to hull.
The Breen Equipment 2pc offers a buff to Transphasics, with the resonant console buffing both Disruptor and Transphasic damage, as well as a passive Armour pen bonus.
A disruptors bonus can be found in the house Martok Set (which also features a console and a CrtH bonus).
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For the pet aspect there's not much available outside of running controls and drains; which the Jupiter can do quite well.
Stacking CtrlX allows a GW3 to pull from great distances, and stacking DrainX allows for Charged Particle Burst to deal damage to shields around the player.
The Jupiter has access to the only Fed-only Frigate pet (Calistoes) which at elite are amazing.
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With regards to BOff layout, the best I can advocate for is to use readiness to reduce your tactical powers to a point where they can be used every 22-25s (which is more than enough for the Jupiter).
With a control focused style you can use:
- TT1 / Focused Assault 1
- FAW1/TS2
- SS1/HE2
- Tractor Beam1 / TSS2 / TR2 / GW3
- EPtE1 / RSP1 / Aux2Sif2
Focuses assault will let you, your team, and your pets do a tad more damage.
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If your dead set on using tricobalts, then I would suggest running a mixed torp build.
It would require a tad more resources (as some gear would have to come from reputations; i.e. AMACO) but you could get some solid result.
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For now:
Up front you can run:
- House Martok Transphasic
- Resonant Transphasic
- Rapid Reload Transphasic
With aft being:
- House Martok Omni
- Kentari Rapid Missile launcher
- Chronometric Turret
Equipment would see:
- Solanae Deflector
- Breen Engines
- A Warp core of your choice
- Breen shield
This layout gives a buff to Torps, as well as some +EPG/DrainX
Console wise for Eng:
- House Martok Console
- Trillium-D console
- Fleet Coordination Console (inherent with Jupiter)
For Sci I would fill in with reslab consoles (which are fairly cheap) with the banks a of your choice.
Tac would see a +Torp/Transphasic console (fleet or elsewhere), the Resonant Console, and to fill in The last spot; the Chronometric Capacitor.
You'll also need to get projectile Weapon DOffs which reduce the CD on torps. You can buy VR ones from the Omega Rep store, and you get some during the Jem'Hadar missions, as well as "Law" from nimbus.
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If I was going to go for the top of the line end all and be all of Jupiter torp builds I would do it significantly different, but this should be fairly good for On-A-budget.
[Edit] - Minor corrections to spelling, Martok from tricobalt to transphasic.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
For a Jupiter, you can load up on Sci abilities and boost EPG/Drain or Drain/CtrlX, 1 crafted TriC (DMGx3Pen would be my recommendation), Temporal Disruption Device (Lobi. Non-lobi alternative would be Gravimetric), and Vaad Cluster Torp (Mine launcher). Launch the Vaad either ahead of your GWell (which should be the target of the GWell), or as a finisher when it's near big targets, as it takes a while to deploy the mines.
Depending on your Sci focus (EPG/Drain/CtrlX pick 1-2), you can use TSx TriC's/TDD/Grav to hit any targets stuck in your GWells, drain shields, or do raw damage to them, and have the torps finish them off. Save the HYx for big targets, OR if the smaller targets are very tightly (1km) bunched up. Well-timed shots will have you grinning like a mad maniac with a menacing mug.
Moving a big tub like that requires some planning, and/or use of consoles to help boost maneuverability, so build/pilot accordingly.
PS: The Devs REALLY need to fix TriC's w/ Concentrate Firepower. It's been bugged for far too long. Make it work like the rest of the crafted torps, as I hate seeing that the TriC icon tells me I'm eligible to fire a HY1 TriC, but I can't because there's a forced countdown timer on the TriC. I bet someone hard-coded that timer in.....
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
It is Transphasic, for sure (I have the full set).
Its description says it can, becoming effectively a Tric Torp that procs a dispersed minefield. We all know that Wiki and Item descriptions are always accurate!
I also note your sig with the link to the Torp/GalX & Torp Tutorial. May I ask how up to date this is?
The Vaad torp is a mine delivery system by default. It may emulate a HY torp in travel (and does damage as one if someone foolish enough flies into it before it is in range of the the intended target), but as of the last time I fired it, it wasn't enhanced by BOff torp abilities.
Aside from the OKS change, the pre-queue nerf of TS/HY, and the corrected change to Guk (DOff), it's still valid. Some gear can be used in place of others for either improved defense and maneuverability, or offense and utility. I tried to weave in the mechanics along with the build theme, so that you can use various build themes and still be effective in combat. If anything needs to be explained out in detail, or warrants an update, please let me know.
Critique the heck out of it.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
OKS did need the change, but the 40% was there to cover up a lot of bugs/mistakes. Some of the issues have been corrected, and the Grav Torp received both a fix and a buff (now one torps within a spread group procs a rift 100% of the time), but that mechanic needs to be applied to other torps that have had such an effect removed from them (looking at Quantum Phase and Neutronic). Furthermore, torpedo throughput received a huge hit with the lockout between TS/HY, severely crippling the strength of torp boats; spike damage.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
There is at least one way to make torps not OP, yet not suck or be relegated to simple-mindedness (as they are now).
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
How?!
How, referring to which (or all)?
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
To "There is at least one way to make torps not OP, yet not suck or be relegated to simple-mindedness." You kinda left us hanging there.
My entire post was deleted? It was posted, and then I edited it for clarification, saved it, then refreshed the page. I come back to this and it's gone.
*sigh*
OK, short, short version. There were several good suggestions made by various people throughout the last three years. Two good ones I think were from VirusDancer, so I'll do a search later and see if I can find them. One of the most repeated ones, "make a dedicated torpedo slot" seems to have manifested itself into the "Heavy Weapon Slot". Based off of Dev feedback and intent, this was to help equalize Escorts with Cruisers, but some will argue that it's a partial wish come true (note: I did not advocate for this).
1. Standardize torp secondary effects for all targets. If Gravimetric can proc on all targets AND have an AoE proc, why can't Neutronic, Quantum Phase, & Piezo work on all targets in a TS (Torpedo Spread)? My suggestion was to remove the AoE component for all three, and treat all targets like the main target. PS: fix Neutronic drain proc under TS.
2. Buff base damage of Transphasics, and for each Mark level increase.
3. It was explained that the torpedo flight speed was (either in part or in full) tied to the FX of the torpedo. Change the flight speed by moving it from an FX attribute to a system attribute AND allow haste to increase torpedo flight speed. Also, allow Torpedo Pre-Fire Sequence (TPFS) to boost flight speed for all torps, and the Reman 2pc to properly stack with TPFS to boost Plasma Torp speed, giving Plasma Torps a unique advantage over other torps (especially heavies). this adds to build variety, thematic feel, and viability.
4. Fix TriCobalt to work properly with Concentrate Firepower.
5. Command Tree tier One: Increase chance of Expose/Exploit proc to 5%/7.5% and/or allow Expose/Exploit attacks to proc for all classes of weapons. This happened once accidentally with the Quantum Phase torpedo proc, where the shield drain component proc'd Expose/Exploit attacks (this only lasted for one week before being fixed in a patch).
6. Removed the shared lockout between TS and HY.
7. Fix/Remove Accuracy for Heavy torps (aka Targetable aka Destructable torps). If it's too much to make them work as pets, re-code them to track like standard torps. If the main target dies, go to last location and detonate as if there was a target there, allowing it to hit secondary targets.
I'll remember more of what I wrote as it comes back to me. If you need the reasoning behind each change explained, please feel free to ask.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.