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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Will the new balance changes make more PUGs fail?

newromulan#1567 newromulan
newromulan#1567
 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
edited March 2017 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
So we will be getting a lot of space changes. Will more PUGs fail?

Will the new balance changes make more PUGs fail? 61 votes

Yes, lots of failed pugs
32%
lexxie1983alexraptorrallyoftheforcea3001captainpugwash1seaofsorrowsdragnridrmethos71sniper1187crm14916narasil2huijiankal36martinofiron123djaricaricson#1377jayceardenruinthefunvanaerusmarsin#8602docbrown#0652 20 votes
No, pugs will still be ok
54%
ikonn#1068talonxvduncanidaho11sophlogimogaraks31daboholicdracounguiskitsunesnoutquesteriuslordsteve1kodachikunorisian4capemike4arliekkosrattler2patrickngokyle223catcurmephoassalazarraze 33 votes
I plan to use premades and avoid pugs
6%
tunebreakersnoggymack22xclusiv11dirtytacoz#2346 4 votes
I am such a massive DPS monster I can carry a pug myself!
6%
peterconnorfirstancientfighterwarpangelcarasucia83 4 votes
«13

Comments

  • ussvaliant#6064 ussvaliant
    ussvaliant#6064
         Member Posts: 1,006 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    Its hard to tell, I do know that after the last skill revamp PUG's improved to the point where I am currently seeing a 90% success rate from ISA/KSA/CSA/CCA/TFA/MIE. But that's because instead of balancing the abilities it improved abilities. This rebalance however is a definite reduction to Players abilities.

    Jf the changes are as dramatic as the DPS channels chatter is currently indicating then we may well see a decline in successful PUG runs. So I might well end up back in DBZ grinding my 8k dil a day. Or using private channels, as failing and losing rewards is not appealing to me as it costs me the most precious commodity of all "TIME"
    maR4zDV.jpg

    Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
  • ikonn#1068 ikonn
    ikonn#1068
         Member Posts: 1,450 Arc User
    No, pugs will still be ok
    There will probably be a period of PUG STF success rates dropping as people tweak their builds, but people will adapt and the rates will climb back up once again.
    -AoP- Warrior's Blood (KDF Armada) / -AoP- Qu' raD qulbo'Degh / -AoP- Project Phoenix
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  • tempus64tempus64 Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    You left off the option that there will be no change from how things are now and so I won't vote. During the winter event I was running a lot of Tholian and Borg red alerts and was shocked at how many times they failed.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • discojerdiscojer Member Posts: 533 Arc User
    No, pugs will still be ok
    I don't think these changes will affect the average player, to be honest. They mostly seem to be cracking down on the borderline exploit stuff which only heavily optimizers take advantage of.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    No, pugs will still be ok
    Let's see...
    Right now we have huge dps and zero cooperation/communication and it gets the job done. There are some times where a whole side of the Borg STF is killed before I can get over to it.

    If DPS does take a major hit, people will *gasp* have to talk to each other! :o
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    No, pugs will still be ok
    I doubt that there will be any meaningful difference in pug failure rates. As it stands, pugs only fail when trolls sabotage the pug and/or pugs are filled with incompetent players. Neither of these will be affected by balance changes.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    So where's the option 'pugs will succeed MORE?'

    Those awful, offal players you so dread getting into a pug with? They didn't change their energy distribution settings settings from the default 50-to-everything. Now that the Weapon Power curve is getting flattened, they'll actually be doing more damage than they were before.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    so they go from sub-2K to MAYBE 2K in a mission that requires over 7x that for the EASIEST advanced...TRIBBLE players will still be so no matter what they do​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

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    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
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    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    so they go from sub-2K to MAYBE 2K in a mission that requires over 7x that for the EASIEST advanced...**** players will still be so no matter what they do

    ISA can be done with a group of 3 10kers...so for a group of 5, that is 6k a piece they need. So it's more like 3x...but the rest...fair point.

    i recall it being 15K per player - but then, that was shortly after DR and cryptic did change a lot of NPC-related stuff since then, among other things​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    I am such a massive DPS monster I can carry a pug myself!
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    so they go from sub-2K to MAYBE 2K in a mission that requires over 7x that for the EASIEST advanced...**** players will still be so no matter what they do

    ISA can be done with a group of 3 10kers...so for a group of 5, that is 6k a piece they need. So it's more like 3x...but the rest...fair point.

    i recall it being 15K per player - but then, that was shortly after DR and cryptic did change a lot of NPC-related stuff since then, among other things​​

    Yeah...ISA right after DR and now are completely different beasts. You will fail the optionals with 5 6kers...but you can beat the map if you all play well. Now the chances of 5 6kers being able to play this game well while having such shoddy builds is about zero. But it is possible...kinda.

    Agreed.

    For most maps there seems to be a hidden (and probably even highly individual) DPS threshold amongst DPS minded players.

    Below that you don’t pug and feel better in a DPS premade from the channels, above that you don’t bother with lobbies and just hit the queue button.

    Depending on how much they nerf global DPS things could skip when those few players who are used to carry pug matches suddenly decide that it’s no fun to do so.

    Things could surely get interesting again. I will continue to do what I always did, team up with a friend or four and just queue up. See what happens.
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    so they go from sub-2K to MAYBE 2K in a mission that requires over 7x that for the EASIEST advanced...**** players will still be so no matter what they do​​

    ISA can be done with a group of 3 10kers...so for a group of 5, that is 6k a piece they need. So it's more like 3x...but the rest...fair point.

    I wouldn't be so sure that will still hold true after the change. Apart from a damage drop, we also get a number of nerfs to heals, so survival may become a deciding factor. Also, depending on what Cryptic eventually deems to be a "hold", we may see NPCs immune to crowd control so players can't chain CCs as well.

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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    So in otherwords, it might just become a challenge again. You know what? Good.

    I actually think I just heard him say "you might do better with a team that has more than just all-pew-pew all-the-time captains/ships."

  • where2r1where2r1 Member Posts: 6,054 Arc User
    I do not think things will change much. People who can't (or won't) adjust will go. Hopefully, these changes will add challenges for everyone else.
    "Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK

    “Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    I am such a massive DPS monster I can carry a pug myself!
    It doesn't actually take all that much "DPS monster" to solo Advanced.
  • duncanidaho11duncanidaho11 Member Posts: 7,980 Arc User
    No, pugs will still be ok
    discojer wrote: »
    I don't think these changes will affect the average player, to be honest. They mostly seem to be cracking down on the borderline exploit stuff which only heavily optimizers take advantage of.

    I have the same impression, DPS GOING DOWN doesn't mean a flat recalculation on all damage. These changes are targeted. Nerfing exotic particle damage, plasmonic leech, perpetual holding, unstoppable immunity, and embassy science consoles will not affect the average player significantly. They'll be more interested in improved weapon effectiveness with low power levels and buffs coming to ENG/SCI captain abilities.

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  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    No, pugs will still be ok
    Little to add; this won't hurt the average player. Those who used to carry PUGs will adapt quickly and resume their role soon enough.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    Yeah I suspect it will be like the release of DR when they "buffed" the npc ships by giving them higher hit points and resistances. The mission themselves won't fail as fail conditions have been removed, but optionals will most definitely fail so less reward for everyone.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • narasil2narasil2 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    Yes, lots of failed pugs
    I've bookmarked this thread to come back to it after a solid week of not meeting but one or two objectives in a pug after an hour or longer and shove I TOLD YOU SO down your throats.
  • narasil2narasil2 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    Yes, lots of failed pugs
    duncanidaho11 wrote: »
    discojer wrote: »
    I don't think these changes will affect the average player, to be honest. They mostly seem to be cracking down on the borderline exploit stuff which only heavily optimizers take advantage of.

    I have the same impression, DPS GOING DOWN doesn't mean a flat recalculation on all damage. These changes are targeted. Nerfing exotic particle damage, plasmonic leech, perpetual holding, unstoppable immunity, and embassy science consoles will not affect the average player significantly. They'll be more interested in improved weapon effectiveness with low power levels and buffs coming to ENG/SCI captain abilities.

    Won't effect the average player??????? What the f....?

    Even if true it WILL effect the not average player currently carrying the average ones. This isn't going to be fine.
  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,414 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    so they go from sub-2K to MAYBE 2K in a mission that requires over 7x that for the EASIEST advanced...**** players will still be so no matter what they do​​

    ISA can be done with a group of 3 10kers...so for a group of 5, that is 6k a piece they need. So it's more like 3x...but the rest...fair point.
    This is true. I've parsed one such run myself while on a lowly alt. If people actually apply themselves the tiniest bit, it's doable, but for whatever reason, STO seems to attract players who are skilled only at pressing the space bar while in the vicinity of red things.

    Y945Yzx.jpg
  • narasil2narasil2 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    Yes, lots of failed pugs
    alcyoneserene wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    so they go from sub-2K to MAYBE 2K in a mission that requires over 7x that for the EASIEST advanced...**** players will still be so no matter what they do​​

    ISA can be done with a group of 3 10kers...so for a group of 5, that is 6k a piece they need. So it's more like 3x...but the rest...fair point.
    This is true. I've parsed one such run myself while on a lowly alt. If people actually apply themselves the tiniest bit, it's doable, but for whatever reason, STO seems to attract players who are skilled only at pressing the space bar while in the vicinity of red things.

    CAN be done is meaningless in this case....
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,500 Arc User
    No, pugs will still be ok
    There will always be good and bad players, but PUGs will be all right since contrary to popular believe people are capable of learning and adjusting their build and play style.

    Some of the chances like the SST integration with all energy weapons (beams and canons) have incredible potential. It's crunching the numbers for tribble ATM
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    Pugs failing because of damage is more like a myth. While it's not impossible that it could be a reason, the problem is that people just play horribad, never read anything, don't play as a team and such.

    I remember back in the day when people popped up in elite infected runs with rainbow boats because they couldn't figure out that the content was meant to be challenging and of course they never listened and scrwed up the whole mission. But that's on the players, not the game.
  • narasil2narasil2 Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    Yes, lots of failed pugs
    questerius wrote: »
    There will always be good and bad players, but PUGs will be all right since contrary to popular believe people are capable of learning and adjusting their build and play style.

    Some of the chances like the SST integration with all energy weapons (beams and canons) have incredible potential. It's crunching the numbers for tribble ATM

    Play style can't overcome everything. This is like saying a wooden shack can overcome a nuclear blast if you just "believe" it will. This is cold hard math, and it's NOT pretty. No one can make +6 = +40 or 50.

    Elite and advanced pugs will be non-extant in a week, and they won't come back unless either content is scaled back or this idiocy is rolled back.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    so they go from sub-2K to MAYBE 2K in a mission that requires over 7x that for the EASIEST advanced...**** players will still be so no matter what they do

    ISA can be done with a group of 3 10kers...so for a group of 5, that is 6k a piece they need. So it's more like 3x...but the rest...fair point.

    i recall it being 15K per player - but then, that was shortly after DR and cryptic did change a lot of NPC-related stuff since then, among other things​​

    Yeah...ISA right after DR and now are completely different beasts. You will fail the optionals with 5 6kers...but you can beat the map if you all play well. Now the chances of 5 6kers being able to play this game well while having such shoddy builds is about zero. But it is possible...kinda.

    I remember a time, far removed, when the players in an Infected Space, *Elite at the time, would actually coordinate and talk to each other even in pugs.
    Tza0PEl.png
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