The changes don't seem that bad to me. From what was said in the official thread with the patch notes it seems the higher the FAW or BO you take the less the hit you take to accuracy and such. Torpedoes sound like they'll be more fun to use especially with the HY changes. Chain firing Romulan rep plasma torpedo launcher might be a thing again which really was fun to do when it first came out between that and BIG RED BALL OF DEATH ship.
BTW, we have the T6 Malem now, it can use the big red ball, and it has it's own console for firing a flurry of smaller torps. Got Kinetic damage?
The changes don't seem that bad to me. From what was said in the official thread with the patch notes it seems the higher the FAW or BO you take the less the hit you take to accuracy and such. Torpedoes sound like they'll be more fun to use especially with the HY changes. Chain firing Romulan rep plasma torpedo launcher might be a thing again which really was fun to do when it first came out between that and BIG RED BALL OF DEATH ship.
BTW, we have the T6 Malem now, it can use the big red ball, and it has it's own console for firing a flurry of smaller torps. Got Kinetic damage?
The changes don't seem that bad to me. From what was said in the official thread with the patch notes it seems the higher the FAW or BO you take the less the hit you take to accuracy and such. Torpedoes sound like they'll be more fun to use especially with the HY changes. Chain firing Romulan rep plasma torpedo launcher might be a thing again which really was fun to do when it first came out between that and BIG RED BALL OF DEATH ship.
No offense, but you aren't that good at math/theory crafting or both....
With the numbers on FAW minus leech you won't be able to kill advanced content in under an hour.
No offense but what I saw Spartan say about higher CSV/FAW levels taking less of a hit implied things aren't so bad. I never said I was doing math or theory crafting. Only going by what the dev said which was a lot better then what I initial thought was being said that lower levels of CSV/FAW are better then higher levels. Like in WoW using a lower level of healing touch was better for druids back in the day then the max rank spell.
No offense but what I saw Spartan say about higher CSV/FAW levels taking less of a hit implied things aren't so bad. I never said I was doing math or theory crafting. Only going by what the dev said which was a lot better then what I initial thought was being said that lower levels of CSV/FAW are better then higher levels. Like in WoW using a lower level of healing touch was better for druids back in the day then the max rank spell.
B:FAW I is 50% Accuracy penalty. You won't be able to hit anything with a 50% Accuracy penalty. Then you get to add a 20-25% damage penalty.
B:FAW I is pointless. You would do better just firing your weapons normally.
It's B:FAW III or nothing right now. Glad my Resolute has Tac slots to spare... oh wait...
As for diversity there isn't usually much of that in MMO's, with some exceptions of course. Generally, a large % of the playerbase learn towards what's most effective. If Cryptic nerfed FaW into the ground the high dpser crowd would simply find the next most efficient killing ability and move on to that.
There's also the issue (in my experiece, which is limited, and from what I gathered from others) that most players lean towards playing a damage dealer instead of a tank or a support.
In these 7 years a lot of things have changed. This may be the largest singular change people can remember, but there were totally different times. There was Escorts Online, where flying an escort was all but necessary, there was the Emergency Power to Cooldown phase. Fact is, even without major rules changes, the meta can easily change due to items. And BFAW as an almost cookie cutter during the last months if not years is a sure sign that it should be looked at.
In general though I find it amusing how imagination runs wild when people think about the DOOM(tm) approaching this game, yet some (not all, granted) find it apparently hard to imagine that a game could work with a different meta.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
... And BFAW as an almost cookie cutter during the last months if not years is a sure sign that it should be looked at...
Conversely, maybe Cryptic could make content that is not about murdering hordes of mindless drones as quickly as possible.
Even after the update, AoE powers will still dominate over single target powers because that is how the game is presented. As posters have said in another thread, the issue is not B:FAW, but all the other stuff piled on. B:FAW is still going to be more desirable than B:O. because that is the tool that gets the job done.
Other options include Torp Spread, Cannon Scatter Volley, and various AoE Space Magic, but the result is the same. AoE trumps single target abilities.
... And BFAW as an almost cookie cutter during the last months if not years is a sure sign that it should be looked at...
Conversely, maybe Cryptic could make content that is not about murdering hordes of mindless drones as quickly as possible.
Even after the update, AoE powers will still dominate over single target powers because that is how the game is presented. As posters have said in another thread, the issue is not B:FAW, but all the other stuff piled on. B:FAW is still going to be more desirable than B:O. because that is the tool that gets the job done.
Other options include Torp Spread, Cannon Scatter Volley, and various AoE Space Magic, but the result is the same. AoE trumps single target abilities.
No offense but what I saw Spartan say about higher CSV/FAW levels taking less of a hit implied things aren't so bad. I never said I was doing math or theory crafting. Only going by what the dev said which was a lot better then what I initial thought was being said that lower levels of CSV/FAW are better then higher levels. Like in WoW using a lower level of healing touch was better for druids back in the day then the max rank spell.
B:FAW I is 50% Accuracy penalty. You won't be able to hit anything with a 50% Accuracy penalty. Then you get to add a 20-25% damage penalty.
It's B:FAW III or nothing right now. Glad my Resolute has Tac slots to spare... oh wait...
I really have to ask, have you actually played on Tribble,copied a recent build over and see how it fared?
I mean, it's understandeable if you haven't, considering that apparently the character copy is broken and obviously it requires spending time not helping you collect Dilithium or Marks or other things on the real server.
But your post here strongly suggests you haven't done so, because you definitely hit a lot with BFAW, even with the accuracy penalty.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
As a very new player this whole situation confuses me a bit. I keep seeing comments that seem to indicate many players prefer the most powerful items be something you can only get from lobi and lock boxes. If I am not mistaken, those items are typically acquired with real world money. (Although I understand they can be acquired with EC if you've got an ample supply. Which the typical new player like me does not have.)
This seems to indicate that many people like the idea of pay to win. Is this correct? And if it is would it be safe to assume that a subscription was a bad decision on my part and that maybe I should cancel such and just buy zen instead (after buying the EC limit upgrade)?
You already are subbed? Then the good news is you don't need to buy the EC cap anymore. But generally, yes, buying Zen tends to get you more. A single month of subscription unlocks a lot, however, that you might find useful, like extra inventory slots, respecs and bank slots that don't get away when the sub ends.
There can be made an argument for the lifetime subscription (when it's on sale), because it unlocks all this permanently for any character you ever have,and gives access to full Veteran Rewards. But that is debatable. People like me that bought it 7 years or so ago certainly don't need to regret that purchase anymore.
But otherwise, buying Zen is best.
And yes, way too many people like Pay-To-Win in STO. STO at least kinda limits the impact of P2W by giving players options to use in-game resources to also acquire the stuff you otherwise get for real world money, but it's still problematic IMO, especially since it festers that feeling that people "invest" money into the game to get good stuff, and that entitles them to it being good forever, balance concerns be damned. Cryptic is walking a fine line at best here.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
You already are subbed? Then the good news is you don't need to buy the EC cap anymore.
they still need to buy it, because that does NOT stay after your sub lapses, and any EC you have above the 10m cap when that happens doesn't go into escrow or anything like it does in SWTOR - it's permanently lost
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Next year they would increase the size to 2.0 Oz., the wrapping would say 'Now even larger' or some such hooey, and they would raise the price on these 'larger' candy bars. That pattern would repeat year after year.
Sound familiar.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The problem is all enemies we face usually come at us in a Zerg Rush.
What did Captain Ron Tracey say?:
'They sacrificed hundreds, just to draw us out in the open. And then they came, and they came. We drained four of our phasers, and they still came. We killed thousands and they still came.'
We seem to always be in that predicament. That's why we have B:FAW. A bit more forethought and smarter enemies and its need would not be needed.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Rush over to your K-13 base, peeps, and get your Superior Accuracy Trait, like I did. Unless Spartan nerfed that too.
B:FAW III really is not as bad as it sounds. It still does a good job of AoE damage. You can see the results posted on Tribble.
B:FAW I though... yeah. Garbage.
I think I usually have like 26.something% surplus [Acc]. So maybe I can finally put it to good use (if it works to compensate like that, 1 on 1). But without compensating, -10% dmg + -30% [Acc] is, effectively, like a -40% dmg output (as you're hitting for 1/3rd less).
And what worries me, is that BFAW usually works with fixed numbers for [Acc], iirc. So, that -30% may very well be hard-coded, and uncompensable.
The problem is all enemies we face usually come at us in a Zerg Rush.
What did Captain Ron Tracey say?:
'They sacrificed hundreds, just to draw us out in the open. And then they came, and they came. We drained four of our phasers, and they still came. We killed thousands and they still came.'
We seem to always be in that predicament. That's why we have B:FAW. A bit more forethought and smarter enemies and its need would not be needed.
Agree. I mean, I don't mind trashing low to mid range level mobs with a good AoE build. Nothing wrong with that, whether it be exotic, cannon, beam or whatever. It's a fun game mechanic for most people (subconsciously) i would think. That's why we see it in most games.
But when AoE builds are wiping high level mobs and bosses in under 10 secs. Its a major problem, and as you elude, leaves almost no meaningful place for single target/debuff/heal type builds. Basically anything other then AoE pales in comparison and has little utility in PvE.
I highly doubt raid bosses are being one-shotted over in that blizzard mmo.
People probably wouldn't bother playing that blizzard mmo if that was the case.
... And BFAW as an almost cookie cutter during the last months if not years is a sure sign that it should be looked at...
Conversely, maybe Cryptic could make content that is not about murdering hordes of mindless drones as quickly as possible.
Which would be another way to react, sure. I only said the situation should be looked at and probably resolved. Your suggestion would be another possible way of addressing the issue. (Slight drawbacks though: firstly, the existing content is what it is already; secondly, B:FAW, at least the old version, was still strong against single opponents.)
But the question I was referring to was "why change a system after so many years", and my answer was "because the system became too dominant". There could be other ways of addressing the issue, I was only about the fact that this issue arose.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I think I usually have like 26.something% surplus [Acc]. So maybe I can finally put it to good use (if it works to compensate like that, 1 on 1). But without compensating, -10% dmg + -30% [Acc] is, effectively, like a -40% dmg output (as you're hitting for 1/3rd less).
And what worries me, is that BFAW usually works with fixed numbers for [Acc], iirc. So, that -30% may very well be hard-coded, and uncompensable.
Is there an expert in the house who can clarify this [Acc] thing on BFAW? Specifically, is it a fixed value?
I think I usually have like 26.something% surplus [Acc]. So maybe I can finally put it to good use (if it works to compensate like that, 1 on 1). But without compensating, -10% dmg + -30% [Acc] is, effectively, like a -40% dmg output (as you're hitting for 1/3rd less).
And what worries me, is that BFAW usually works with fixed numbers for [Acc], iirc. So, that -30% may very well be hard-coded, and uncompensable.
Is there an expert in the house who can clarify this [Acc] thing on BFAW? Specifically, is it a fixed value?
A friend of mine just got 94% hit rate with BFAW2, with his only acc boosts being Jupiter console, 1 Acc point in skilltree and Intense Focus. The acc debuff on BFAW shouldn't be a problem. If anything, it makes +acc boosts a bit more valuable.
I think I usually have like 26.something% surplus [Acc]. So maybe I can finally put it to good use (if it works to compensate like that, 1 on 1). But without compensating, -10% dmg + -30% [Acc] is, effectively, like a -40% dmg output (as you're hitting for 1/3rd less).
And what worries me, is that BFAW usually works with fixed numbers for [Acc], iirc. So, that -30% may very well be hard-coded, and uncompensable.
Is there an expert in the house who can clarify this [Acc] thing on BFAW? Specifically, is it a fixed value?
A friend of mine just got 94% hit rate with BFAW2, with his only acc boosts being Jupiter console, 1 Acc point in skilltree and Intense Focus. The acc debuff on BFAW shouldn't be a problem. If anything, it makes +acc boosts a bit more valuable.
The changes don't seem that bad to me. From what was said in the official thread with the patch notes it seems the higher the FAW or BO you take the less the hit you take to accuracy and such. Torpedoes sound like they'll be more fun to use especially with the HY changes. Chain firing Romulan rep plasma torpedo launcher might be a thing again which really was fun to do when it first came out between that and BIG RED BALL OF DEATH ship.
No offense, but you aren't that good at math/theory crafting or both....
With the numbers on FAW minus leech you won't be able to kill advanced content in under an hour.
No offense (but really I do mean to offend like you did), but YOU are not good at math or theory crafting if you think advanced will take an hour with the changes they made.
Yeah, I have no idea what Narasil2 is talking about. I started when F2P started. With a good team, and with the mechanics around at that time, which didnt include BFAW as it is now, and no Leech, we could still complete advance (was elite back then ) ISA, CSA and other queues at that time in 15 mins to 20mins.
If he thinks these changes will make queues 1 hour long, i have no idea what planet he is on
The changes don't seem that bad to me. From what was said in the official thread with the patch notes it seems the higher the FAW or BO you take the less the hit you take to accuracy and such. Torpedoes sound like they'll be more fun to use especially with the HY changes. Chain firing Romulan rep plasma torpedo launcher might be a thing again which really was fun to do when it first came out between that and BIG RED BALL OF DEATH ship.
No offense, but you aren't that good at math/theory crafting or both....
With the numbers on FAW minus leech you won't be able to kill advanced content in under an hour.
No offense (but really I do mean to offend like you did), but YOU are not good at math or theory crafting if you think advanced will take an hour with the changes they made.
Yeah, I have no idea what Narasil2 is talking about. I started when F2P started. With a good team, and with the mechanics around at that time, which didnt include BFAW as it is now, and no Leech, we could still complete advance (was elite back then ) ISA, CSA and other queues at that time in 15 mins to 20mins.
If he thinks these changes will make queues 1 hour long, i have no idea what planet he is on
Not defending anything Narasil has said, but the game was also very different at that time. The npc's were quite a bit weaker then they are now, but then again so where the players. One huge change is that there were no dps channels early on so there were a lot more competent players in the pug queues.
Basically they're nerfing Beam Overload by removing the "always crits" aspect, and nerfing Fire At Will by imposing an accuracy penalty. It won't be long before cannons are king once again.
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
Oh yes.. I have all three of the T'varo's. ^_^
No offense but what I saw Spartan say about higher CSV/FAW levels taking less of a hit implied things aren't so bad. I never said I was doing math or theory crafting. Only going by what the dev said which was a lot better then what I initial thought was being said that lower levels of CSV/FAW are better then higher levels. Like in WoW using a lower level of healing touch was better for druids back in the day then the max rank spell.
B:FAW I is pointless. You would do better just firing your weapons normally.
It's B:FAW III or nothing right now. Glad my Resolute has Tac slots to spare... oh wait...
Yup
There's also the issue (in my experiece, which is limited, and from what I gathered from others) that most players lean towards playing a damage dealer instead of a tank or a support.
In these 7 years a lot of things have changed. This may be the largest singular change people can remember, but there were totally different times. There was Escorts Online, where flying an escort was all but necessary, there was the Emergency Power to Cooldown phase. Fact is, even without major rules changes, the meta can easily change due to items. And BFAW as an almost cookie cutter during the last months if not years is a sure sign that it should be looked at.
In general though I find it amusing how imagination runs wild when people think about the DOOM(tm) approaching this game, yet some (not all, granted) find it apparently hard to imagine that a game could work with a different meta.
Even after the update, AoE powers will still dominate over single target powers because that is how the game is presented. As posters have said in another thread, the issue is not B:FAW, but all the other stuff piled on. B:FAW is still going to be more desirable than B:O. because that is the tool that gets the job done.
Other options include Torp Spread, Cannon Scatter Volley, and various AoE Space Magic, but the result is the same. AoE trumps single target abilities.
...and another who understands. So we have a few.
I mean, it's understandeable if you haven't, considering that apparently the character copy is broken and obviously it requires spending time not helping you collect Dilithium or Marks or other things on the real server.
But your post here strongly suggests you haven't done so, because you definitely hit a lot with BFAW, even with the accuracy penalty.
There can be made an argument for the lifetime subscription (when it's on sale), because it unlocks all this permanently for any character you ever have,and gives access to full Veteran Rewards. But that is debatable. People like me that bought it 7 years or so ago certainly don't need to regret that purchase anymore.
But otherwise, buying Zen is best.
And yes, way too many people like Pay-To-Win in STO. STO at least kinda limits the impact of P2W by giving players options to use in-game resources to also acquire the stuff you otherwise get for real world money, but it's still problematic IMO, especially since it festers that feeling that people "invest" money into the game to get good stuff, and that entitles them to it being good forever, balance concerns be damned. Cryptic is walking a fine line at best here.
they still need to buy it, because that does NOT stay after your sub lapses, and any EC you have above the 10m cap when that happens doesn't go into escrow or anything like it does in SWTOR - it's permanently lost
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
B:FAW I: -20% damage; -50% Accuracy
B:FAW II: -15% damage; -40% Accuracy
B:FAW III: -10%% damage; -30% Accuracy
That's an incredible nerf, really.
Rush over to your K-13 base, peeps, and get your Superior Accuracy Trait, like I did.
Next year they would increase the size to 2.0 Oz., the wrapping would say 'Now even larger' or some such hooey, and they would raise the price on these 'larger' candy bars. That pattern would repeat year after year.
Sound familiar.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
B:FAW I though... yeah. Garbage.
What did Captain Ron Tracey say?:
'They sacrificed hundreds, just to draw us out in the open. And then they came, and they came. We drained four of our phasers, and they still came. We killed thousands and they still came.'
We seem to always be in that predicament. That's why we have B:FAW. A bit more forethought and smarter enemies and its need would not be needed.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I think I usually have like 26.something% surplus [Acc]. So maybe I can finally put it to good use (if it works to compensate like that, 1 on 1). But without compensating, -10% dmg + -30% [Acc] is, effectively, like a -40% dmg output (as you're hitting for 1/3rd less).
And what worries me, is that BFAW usually works with fixed numbers for [Acc], iirc. So, that -30% may very well be hard-coded, and uncompensable.
Agree. I mean, I don't mind trashing low to mid range level mobs with a good AoE build. Nothing wrong with that, whether it be exotic, cannon, beam or whatever. It's a fun game mechanic for most people (subconsciously) i would think. That's why we see it in most games.
But when AoE builds are wiping high level mobs and bosses in under 10 secs. Its a major problem, and as you elude, leaves almost no meaningful place for single target/debuff/heal type builds. Basically anything other then AoE pales in comparison and has little utility in PvE.
I highly doubt raid bosses are being one-shotted over in that blizzard mmo.
People probably wouldn't bother playing that blizzard mmo if that was the case.
Which would be another way to react, sure. I only said the situation should be looked at and probably resolved. Your suggestion would be another possible way of addressing the issue. (Slight drawbacks though: firstly, the existing content is what it is already; secondly, B:FAW, at least the old version, was still strong against single opponents.)
But the question I was referring to was "why change a system after so many years", and my answer was "because the system became too dominant". There could be other ways of addressing the issue, I was only about the fact that this issue arose.
Is there an expert in the house who can clarify this [Acc] thing on BFAW? Specifically, is it a fixed value?
A friend of mine just got 94% hit rate with BFAW2, with his only acc boosts being Jupiter console, 1 Acc point in skilltree and Intense Focus. The acc debuff on BFAW shouldn't be a problem. If anything, it makes +acc boosts a bit more valuable.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Thanks!
Yeah, I have no idea what Narasil2 is talking about. I started when F2P started. With a good team, and with the mechanics around at that time, which didnt include BFAW as it is now, and no Leech, we could still complete advance (was elite back then
If he thinks these changes will make queues 1 hour long, i have no idea what planet he is on
Not defending anything Narasil has said, but the game was also very different at that time. The npc's were quite a bit weaker then they are now, but then again so where the players. One huge change is that there were no dps channels early on so there were a lot more competent players in the pug queues.