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so it goodbye to winXP based players as of March 1, 2017

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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    Ive playted with ubuntu.... very nice linux based OS and an only takes a little bit to get used to the subtle differences from winXP or win7. Sadly for gamers its still kinda TRIBBLE, now if SteamOS would stop trying to be another ps4 and get to being a PC operating system....
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo1_400.gif
    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • jbmonroejbmonroe Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    I can't imagine how out-of-touch you'd have to be to still be on Windows XP seven years after Windows 7 came out. I suppose it happens, though.

    boldly-watched.png
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  • onerariusonerarius Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    hope they can upgrade before the deadline.
    "As of March 1, 2017, Star Trek Online will no longer be supporting Windows XP and Direct3D 9, or Video Cards with a Direct3D Hardware Feature Level less than 10.0."
    otherwise they will be sadly missed.

    Goodbye XP users, goodbye Mac users, goodbye Linux users, goodbye everyone who is having the issue where the lighting update made using the d3d11 engine impossible.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    jbmonroe wrote: »
    I can't imagine how out-of-touch you'd have to be to still be on Windows XP seven years after Windows 7 came out. I suppose it happens, though.

    well I cant understand peoples reluctance to upgrade to windows 10 instead of windows 7 or windows 8.1 especially when it was a free upgrade, maybe some people just don't like change or are afraid of anything new or maybe they just bought in to the rubbish that was the negative hype that accompanied the release of the system either way mainstream support for win7 ended in April, 2009 and extended support ends in January, 2020 so at that point windows 7 users will be in the same boat vulnerability wise as XP users are now.
    then if they have to buy a new PC it will likely come with windows 10 preinstalled so what's the difference, as years go by and all of the older OS's fall by the wayside or old PC's break there will only be windows 10 as Microsoft claim that is the last OS they will ever release and it will just be updated from time to time from here on so if you haven't got windows 10 by that point you haven't got a Microsoft PC.
    here we are and its nearly 2017 so within about 3 years windows 7 will just be another dead OS like XP is now.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    guljarol wrote: »
    goodbye everyone who is having the issue where the lighting update made using the d3d11 engine impossible.

    What do you mean?! Lighting 2.0 is horribadly implemented, but can be disabled without losing DX 11.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    What do you mean?! Lighting 2.0 is horribadly implemented, but can be disabled without losing DX 11.

    Overall, I actually like Lighting 2.0.

    It could use some polish though. For example, shadows could have been implemented better. But hopefully adjustments are forthcoming after the new year.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »

    What do you mean?! Lighting 2.0 is horribadly implemented, but can be disabled without losing DX 11.

    Overall, I actually like Lighting 2.0.

    It could use some polish though. For example, shadows could have been implemented better. But hopefully adjustments are forthcoming after the new year.


    You do?! Our Fleet base is enshrouded in a horrific blue hue with 2.0 on; floors are 100% light-source reflective (meaning you constantly see sun-bright light-sources in them). Our Dilithium mine is the same kind of terrible with 2.0, but entirely dipped in a purple haze, this time. Your boffs get a weird plastic-wrap on them (who ever thought treating boff-skin as a 'reflective surface' was a good idea?!?). Ugh.

    Don't get me wrong, more lighting options are always good. But 'Lighting 2.0' needs a *lot* of work. It's like we're currently looking at the alpha-version of it.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    (who ever thought treating boff-skin as a 'reflective surface' was a good idea?!?).

    i would imagine they were trying to replicate that whole 'healthy glow' thing people with well-cared for skin supposedly have...no idea what the hell they're talking about - people don't glow no matter how healthy their skin is, nor do they glow when pregnant​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    You do?! Our Fleet base is enshrouded in a horrific blue hue with 2.0 on; floors are 100% light-source reflective (meaning you constantly see sun-bright light-sources in them). Our Dilithium mine is the same kind of terrible with 2.0, but entirely dipped in a purple haze, this time. Your boffs get a weird plastic-wrap on them (who ever thought treating boff-skin as a 'reflective surface' was a good idea?!?). Ugh.

    Don't get me wrong, more lighting options are always good. But 'Lighting 2.0' needs a *lot* of work. It's like we're currently looking at the alpha-version of it.

    I am not in a fleet so I guess I am not seeing what you are seeing. I don't notice anything odd with my Boffs, then again I do not focus much attention on them I suppose. Also, since even with Lighting 2.0, the graphics looks cartoonish rather than realistic. I guess my expectations for Light 2.0 was relatively low when it was being hyped up before going live.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    I actually never noticed any difference at all with 2.0.

    But I also never paid much attention to the lighting and typically run with my gamma blown out so I can do "what lies beneath" without using a light.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    You do?! Our Fleet base is enshrouded in a horrific blue hue with 2.0 on; floors are 100% light-source reflective (meaning you constantly see sun-bright light-sources in them). Our Dilithium mine is the same kind of terrible with 2.0, but entirely dipped in a purple haze, this time. Your boffs get a weird plastic-wrap on them (who ever thought treating boff-skin as a 'reflective surface' was a good idea?!?). Ugh.

    Don't get me wrong, more lighting options are always good. But 'Lighting 2.0' needs a *lot* of work. It's like we're currently looking at the alpha-version of it.

    I am not in a fleet so I guess I am not seeing what you are seeing. I don't notice anything odd with my Boffs, then again I do not focus much attention on them I suppose. Also, since even with Lighting 2.0, the graphics looks cartoonish rather than realistic. I guess my expectations for Light 2.0 was relatively low when it was being hyped up before going live.


    To give you a few examples. Here's one inside the Fleet base. 'Fubar 2.0' is the top image, normal the one at the bottom:

    jl5a34.jpg

    And here's the Dilithium Mine:

    sxexds.jpg
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,130 Arc User
    Funny how opinions can differ. While I have quite a few auibbles with the new lighting when I am in game, and during the run-up towards 2.0 I did not find the pictures posted on the dev blogs convincing at all, I would consider both of your FUBAR examples as very remarkable improvements over the older version (the dil mine could use a little less main light, but still way more details than the old one).
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,130 Arc User
    well I cant understand peoples reluctance to upgrade to windows 10 instead of windows 7 or windows 8.1 especially when it was a free upgrade, maybe some people just don't like change or are afraid of anything new or maybe they just bought in to the rubbish that was the negative hype that accompanied the release of the system

    Talking about "differing opinions", I have quite a few reasons myself:

    1) Windows 10 brings nothing new to the table I am interested in, but new functions I don't need which clutter up my experience.

    2) The "negative hype" of the way MS is always trying to gather more data from the PCs fully got me. You may not care about the issues, and that's fine, but I don't like that at all. And the facts behind it are not "rubbish" - you may award them a lower importance, though.

    3) The way MS was trying to force me to upgrade even though I did not want to (pressing "Cancel" on an "Upgrade" window makes you upgrade, as does pressing "OK", you have to find the two words within the text you can click on to say "no"...) gets me riled up enough to try to refuse out of principle

    4) Never change a running system. "Newer" isn't necessarily better. And there is a reason loads of critical software and data run on older hardware - not because it is better, but because we know it works, and we won't know with a new one.

    Yes, it may one day not run anymore, but by then maybe I can upgrade to the one after Win10, saving me one step of work. Or I would need a new PC in the meantime anyways. Right now, Win10 has nothing to offer to me.
    My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    People who use windows XP on internet based machines should... be ashamed...

    By now, that system is basically a giant gate, with signs: Hackers and Viruses - This way.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
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  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    Hi meimeitoo,

    Actually, the difference between normal and "Fubar 2.0" is more or less what I would expect to see in the game. In "Fubar 2.0", which uses DirectX 11 / Direct3D 11, there can be numerous sources of light and surfaces can also reflect the light. The old lighting engine was rather basic and only allowed for a limited number of light sources, and I suppose it was very difficult make light or perhaps impossible for the light to reflect off surfaces. That is why normal looks flat.


    The 1st set of pictures is basically a hallway that is painted / tiled blue with lights running along the folder against the wall. In the normal picture, it simply looks flat and dark with no real light emanating from the light fixtures. In "Fubar 2.0", I more or less see what I expect to see with Lighting 2.0 especially since the brightness is influenced by JJ Trek... I expected to see a lens flare... :)

    The walls are brightly lit, even the ceiling is lit up now due to the individual light sources running along the floor. The walls even reflects a diffused image of the light source which gives the impression that the walls are made of a shiny hard material like metal. Because your character is standing in a brightly lit blue hallway, your character takes on a bluish color that is a bit washed out due to the bright light. What seems out of place is the circular light in the middle of the floor which does not seem to have a light source.


    The second set of pictures is also more or less what I expect using "Fubar 2.0". The dilithium mine is bathed in purple because of the very bright purple light sources. They basically bathe nearby objects in purple. Again, the normal picture is simply flat. You see that the light emanating from the columns is purple, but based on the light in the mine, is simply looks like it being lit up by white lights. I suppose the purple lights are a bit too intense though so toning down the brightness should make it more palatable. But again, I think Cryptic has based Lighting 2.0 off of the JJ Trek movies where sunglasses should be standard issue along with the uniform.

  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    Hi meimeitoo,

    Actually, the difference between normal and "Fubar 2.0" is more or less what I would expect to see in the game. In "Fubar 2.0", which uses DirectX 11 / Direct3D 11, there can be numerous sources of light and surfaces can also reflect the light. The old lighting engine was rather basic and only allowed for a limited number of light sources, and I suppose it was very difficult make light or perhaps impossible for the light to reflect off surfaces. That is why normal looks flat.


    The 1st set of pictures is basically a hallway that is painted / tiled blue with lights running along the folder against the wall. In the normal picture, it simply looks flat and dark with no real light emanating from the light fixtures. In "Fubar 2.0", I more or less see what I expect to see with Lighting 2.0 especially since the brightness is influenced by JJ Trek... I expected to see a lens flare... :)

    The walls are brightly lit, even the ceiling is lit up now due to the individual light sources running along the floor. The walls even reflects a diffused image of the light source which gives the impression that the walls are made of a shiny hard material like metal. Because your character is standing in a brightly lit blue hallway, your character takes on a bluish color that is a bit washed out due to the bright light. What seems out of place is the circular light in the middle of the floor which does not seem to have a light source.


    The second set of pictures is also more or less what I expect using "Fubar 2.0". The dilithium mine is bathed in purple because of the very bright purple light sources. They basically bathe nearby objects in purple. Again, the normal picture is simply flat. You see that the light emanating from the columns is purple, but based on the light in the mine, is simply looks like it being lit up by white lights. I suppose the purple lights are a bit too intense though so toning down the brightness should make it more palatable. But again, I think Cryptic has based Lighting 2.0 off of the JJ Trek movies where sunglasses should be standard issue along with the uniform.


    Thanks for the feedback/explanations. :)

    Yes, in an earlier (separate) thread, I actually asked Cryptic for specifically that: toning down of Lighting 2.0, as added light sources are beautiful, when added subtlely. Like the floor in the Fleet base: wonderful to see some reflections, but in 2.0, current incarnation, everything is extremely reflective, which is just way too much:

    1y8p07.jpg

    The problem, the way I see it, is not the extra light sources per se, or their brightness even, but the fact that the specular lighting effect on the materials is set way too high: instead of 100% reflective, they ought to set it to maybe like 20%, or less (or simply off in some cases). And sometimes, like in the Dilithium mine, yes, the brightness simply overtakes everything and detail gets lost (like you can hardly make out the crystals in the chamber any more).

    Lighting 2.0 solves some issues of areas being too dark. Most of it, I think, has to do with facial lighting. In Second Life, for instance, there's an elegant solution: avatars can wear facial lights (basically just light-source attachments, that ensure your face is always nicely visible, even in dark areas, like some bridges).
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,366 Arc User
    xp was what 16 bit?
    u7acy6aymfw7.gif
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  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    Yeah, I'm no bleeding edge technophile, but even I've moved on to Win10. My PC is 5yrs old and runs it just fine. Anyone still running XP just needs to move on.
  • fluffymooffluffymoof Member Posts: 430 Arc User
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    [...] I expect the WINE folks will sort it.

    Well, Cryptic could do itself a favor and donate something to them in order to keep their game playable with Linux...

    If I read everything correctly, the problem doesn't lie in STO or any Cryptic game. The problem lies in trying (and failing) to really get a good WINE port of anything DirectX past version 9.

    It'll likely happen, as the WINE crew has been amazingly good at working things like this out. It just won't come tomorrow or the next day.
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,753 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Cryptic is a small studio so they probably can't afford to donate much. Someone like Valve might step up someday.

    But Linux players who care about DirectX should have already funded it by now, since they would benefit when trying to play all games not just Cryptic's. To those who use WINE, how much have you donated to https://www.winehq.org/ ?

    I wouldn't be too hopeful about playing STO in WINE next year given the release dates of DirectX 10 and 11:

    10 - November 30, 2006 - Windows Vista exclusive
    11 - October 22, 2009 - Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2

    If they haven't managed DirectX 10 support after 9 years, Linux games are apparently not donating enough for them add it any time soon.
  • trekpuppytrekpuppy Member Posts: 446 Arc User
    The problem isn't money primarily. DirectX is a proprietary, closed software. There's no publicly available system documentation of the APIs and ABIs. The WIne developers have to reverse engineer every system call by carefully monitoring a running system to see what registers, memory addresses and other system resources are accessed when a particular system call is triggered with a certain set of arguments. This is extremely difficult, especially when system resources is located on it's own independent hardware like a graphics card. Then you have to repeat the procedure with as many variations on arguments you can muster for a single system call. When you have collected enough data you then have to code your own software that mimics the behaviour in every detail. It's extremely time consuming.
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  • horsefrog#6874 horsefrog Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited March 2017
    I guess this is goodbye for players who still use macs for now (unless someone finds a way to get STO working on Mac again). I suppose I could create a new console account start over at Lt. 6.
    Post edited by horsefrog#6874 on
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    jbmonroe wrote: »
    I can't imagine how out-of-touch you'd have to be to still be on Windows XP seven years after Windows 7 came out. I suppose it happens, though.

    Fact of life for computers.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • doctordnadoctordna Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    I will explain to everyone here why this is not just about XP over Windows 10 and not just old software vs new software. I ran Windows XP for my college years and loved MS corp. Truth and honesty are hard to come by in any major global corporation. I felt the US congress was being foolish with Mr. Gates when he was accused of a monopoly. I live in a socialist country and felt like this man was being betrayed by his own government.

    My love for MS withered away when they launched Vista and had to LIE to consumers. They even made bogus "Coke vs Pepsi style" TV commercials showing people taste testing Vista... how sad. While I was finishing up my doctorate, MS then announced they would drop XP support altogether. My opinion was "big deal", I continued to use it. It wasn't like some MS tech was coming out to the campus the last 9 years and holding my hand.

    One day I was having issues and a college tech said my poor old machine would not handle the newest OS well. He asked how I felt about Linux. I didn't have a clue. He explained it was user supported OS, not much for gaming but great for surfing the internet and business apps. He hooked me up to dual boot my XP with the option to run Ubuntu. After 6 months I stopped using XP altogether, Linux was booting faster and had fewer issues. I replaced my environment with KDE making the change to Kubuntu with all the bells and whistles of Windows 7 before Windows 7 was even a thought.

    Dr. Frank Tremblay and I planned to open a clinic as soon as we could and started to price out equipment. Part of that equipment was computers, we got some donated from the school and others we added to the expense account. Frank showed me the business license from MS to put Windows on our office machines. It was mind blowing. I told him about Linux and we now have 9 PCs in the office all running Debian Linux for free. The clinic computers have been issue free for 5 years now. We also have a free LTS (Long Term Support).

    When I purchased my Laptop it came with Windows 10. I reformatted a placed Kubuntu on it day 1. So my hardware is 100% compliant and my OS is unlikely to be TRIBBLE, or get a virus, and even promoted by the NSA as "the most secure OS available". I never need to "defrag the HD" because the advanced file structure used. I don't need to clear my Google Chrome browser of unwanted hacks.

    The system requirements are minimal compared to Windows 10.
    Linux RAM 1 GB --> Win 10 RAM 4 GB
    Linux Any x86-64 CPUs --> Win 10 must also support CMPXCHG16B, PrefetchW and LAHF/SAHF, with support for PAE, NX and SSE2
    Linux HD space 10 GB --> Win 10 HD space 20 GB.

    All these facts are why I chose Linux and not Windows. If you enjoy Windows, by all means use it. I respect your choice, as you should respect mine. I may not wave the Microsoft flag but I am letting you know, there is more than one flavor of ice-cream and personally I got tired of vannila. If you believe Linux is just for "geeks and nerds", no it is easy to install and quick to use. My choice is Kubuntu but there is a whole world of distributions available.

    For "Windows Only Games" I can play almost anything in WINE, Play on Linux, or DOS Box (for the real old ones). Neverwinter or Champions Online are definitely not worth putting Windows on any computer for me to play. However I will miss Star Trek Online until my WINE support can upgrade me. Until then I have some Linux games to catch up on such as my Borderlands 2 that I haven't finished yet. Meanwhile if Cryptic wants my money, they know where to come find me.

    Note:
    I have played STO since it was a subscription MMO. I am a busy person with a very full plate, if you desire to respond to me personally, please use my Facebook as I don't come here so often.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,753 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    It sounds like Linux makes sense for you and your business. But you could dual-boot and play STO, you just choose to ignore the license you have:
    When I purchased my Laptop it came with Windows 10. I reformatted a placed Kubuntu on it day 1.

    For Mac users and others who do not own a Windows 10 license, it's too bad WINE only supports DirectX 9 from 2004, but Cryptic is a small company. Dropping support for XP from 2000 and the 2004 version of DirectX graphics lets them spend more time doing good things for the people with at least a 2009 operating system (Windows 7) and a 2008 graphics card.

    Like with paying for a native Mac version, paying to maintain a second set of old 2000 / 2004 code for a few Linux and Mac users apparently did not make business sense. They seem to feel it is better to spend that money on improving the game for "newer" PCs (only 8 years old).

    The solution is for WINE to get better. Then Linux and Mac people can play STO again, and with better graphics.
  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    jbmonroe wrote: »
    I can't imagine how out-of-touch you'd have to be to still be on Windows XP seven years after Windows 7 came out. I suppose it happens, though.

    Fact of life for computers.

    I know of a multi billion $ worldwide blue chip company who has only recently upgraded their entire network of laptops and desktop pc's to windows 7 from XP and only that was due to customer pressure, so its not only home users who are afraid or unwilling to move with the times I guess.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    jbmonroe wrote: »
    I can't imagine how out-of-touch you'd have to be to still be on Windows XP seven years after Windows 7 came out. I suppose it happens, though.

    Fact of life for computers.

    I know of a multi billion $ worldwide blue chip company who has only recently upgraded their entire network of laptops and desktop pc's to windows 7 from XP and only that was due to customer pressure, so its not only home users who are afraid or unwilling to move with the times I guess.
    Another example of cheapness. The company that I work for has about 50% XP workstations and 50% Win7 workstations.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
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