I posted my thoughts regarding CCA in the other thread, but in regards to Sci DPS, it's a bit misleading.
In that run, I wasn't really doing 200k+ per hit. Most of the Sci DPS skills I am using are AOE, meaning the more targets I hit, the higher my DPS gets. In CCA, there are a lot of targets.
For example, my Grav Well may be hitting for 10k per tick, which isn't much these days. However, when you start drawing 9 Tholians and the Entity with that GW, the parser will now count that as me doing 100k DPS.
That's basically how CCA DPS runs work. You try to focus fire on the Entity while trying to hit as many targets as possible at the shortest amount of time. In those runs, the parser only sees your spike damage, and not your true DPS.
As far as sub 1-min CCAs go, it's usually just 1 mega hitter with 9 10k or less players. I know because I parse all my CCAs. Take away that heavy hitter, and the run turns out to be much longer.
I posted my thoughts on what I would like to see in an Elite version of CC. I'd happily stick to Elite if it were available.
20 seconds to kill the CCA is a little bit over the top and is becoming the norm instead of the exception.
CCA needs to be redesigned. The fact that we can roll it quickly isn't a sign of too much ship power. It means that it is deigned in a way that 10 players get to fly in, alpha blast the CE while ignoring all adds and thus complete the mission. That needs to be corrected. Then, it won't be over in 20 seconds.
Someone spent more time and money than me to do better in the game! Nerf them hard!
Luckily, Cryptic caters the gameplay to those that pay their bills and not those that whine on the forums about how they can't be the best for free.
Yeah, **** any semblance of balance! We want our pay-to-whale cheese! /sarcasm
How is nerfing systems that players have been using for YEARS suddenly 'balance'? And nerfing damage WON'T do anything to change the paradigm of "Cryptic sells ships in the CStore..." and "Cryptic sell keys for Lockboxes and Lobi ships and gear are better then what you can get for free...:
Why?^^^ Because the above is how Cryptic makes their money off STO and their other two MMOs.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
While this is before my time, I believe the original setup for the Borg STFs was that they were one complete mission. Not split into two like we have now. So for example Infected would have you start in space, then proceed to the ground portion, all in one go. I also heard that Starbase 24 used to have a ground portion as well back in the day.
If anyone from game launch can provide input on this to confirm or deny... please do. I came in JUST before F2P so I was already used to the current setup pretty much, except we had random tech drops that drove me insane at the time. Random Number Gods did not look upon me favorably many times.
Your correct. I've played STO since day one, back before STF's.
When they first debuted they were one mission both space and ground. They could take a long time to complete(there was no 30 minute limit back then). And yes, Starbase 24 had a ground portion as well.
Now since I'm here.... back to this nerf business. Like I said I've been playing STO since the pre-launch weekend back in 2010. I am also a survivor of the first 'nerf wars' and I do not want to see us go back there!! For goodness sake just play the game and have fun. If you don't like getting in PUGs with high DPSers don't. Find some like minded friends and run the STF's on your own.
CCA needs to be redesigned. The fact that we can roll it quickly isn't a sign of too much ship power. It means that it is deigned in a way that 10 players get to fly in, alpha blast the CE while ignoring all adds and thus complete the mission. That needs to be corrected. Then, it won't be over in 20 seconds.
Actually, it is a sign of too much ship power. Way too much.
and the sky is too blue. Way too blue.
Way to support your stance with facts and leave the "feelings" out of it.
The CE was killed in seconds in TNG by Enterprise-D, solo. What we are currently seeing would appear to be canon.
Way to support your stance with facts and leave the "feelings" out of it.
The CE was killed in seconds in TNG by Enterprise-D, solo. What we are currently seeing would appear to be canon.
I believe the video posted speaks for itself and provides more than adequate evidence. Here are a couple more in case for some reason the first wasn't enough.
The CE Q isn't meant to last very long as evidence by the mission timers. Thought admittedly the speed at which I've seen it go down is a little on the fast side in certain cases.
Someone spent more time and money than me to do better in the game! Nerf them hard!
Luckily, Cryptic caters the gameplay to those that pay their bills and not those that whine on the forums about how they can't be the best for free.
Except this pretty much ruins the teamed PvE content for everyone else....
20 seconds to kill the CCA is a little bit over the top and is becoming the norm instead of the exception.
And it's already been said at least twice above that CCA and ISA need harder versions. Now, let's see Procyon V in 20 sec!
Also the builds that run CCA in 20sec probably can't do the same in ISA. CCA has a single big target that you can stack all sorts of debuffs on. ISA.... has a lot of targets. Not as easy to stack debuffs. Also ISA has more reason to use AoEs. In CCA the main use of AoEs is keeping the shards from hitting you.
Way to support your stance with facts and leave the "feelings" out of it.
The CE was killed in seconds in TNG by Enterprise-D, solo. What we are currently seeing would appear to be canon.
I believe the video posted speaks for itself and provides more than adequate evidence. Here are a couple more in case for some reason the first wasn't enough.
I'm fully aware of DPS infinity. I've posted it here on the forums before. It doesn't change canon, CE was killed very quickly. It doesn't change the mission, can be completed by killing only the CE without no regard for any other mobs.
Every other STF has some patter and process to follow to gate it in some way so that DPS can't just roll in and clear a mission in a few seconds. CE's STF is an exception to that, but as others have pointed out...it's nice to have an STF that can be cleared quickly to counter the ones that force us to play 15 minutes by using time gates we have no control of.
How is nerfing systems that players have been using for YEARS suddenly 'balance'?
By itself, it isn't. But it's obviously part of the larger subject. And if the broader concept of balance requires nerfing the ridiculous amounts of damage some builds can put out, so be it. You weren't sold even one single item with any assurance that its stats would never change.
I'm fully aware of DPS infinity. I've posted it here on the forums before. It doesn't change canon, CE was killed very quickly. It doesn't change the mission, can be completed by killing only the CE without no regard for any other mobs.
Every other STF has some patter and process to follow to gate it in some way so that DPS can't just roll in and clear a mission in a few seconds. CE's STF is an exception to that, but as others have pointed out...it's nice to have an STF that can be cleared quickly to counter the ones that force us to play 15 minutes by using time gates we have no control of.
If you want to keep it is as and be beatable within 15 to 30 seconds, why bother queuing up for it then? Just give people free marks. It's essentially what's happening now.
If you have an issue with your damage output, then go full starter: ship, equip and no skills...
This should fix your high damage.
Don't force this on others.
And no, I am not one of the high-damage people.
Klingons don't get drunk.
They just get less sober.
If you have an issue with your damage output, then go full starter: ship, equip and no skills...
This should fix your high damage.
Don't force this on others.
And no, I am not one of the high-damage people.
The problem cannot be avoided that way. In order to avoid the problem described in the OP, you have to make your team members abstain from using ultra-high-dps-combinations.
That's what pre-made groups are for. Problem solved!
I think people who regularly play STFs have run into those 100-155k damage build players. That's more than the collective DPS of a "normal T6 (mk 14 geared)" 5 Person Group in The Conduit Adv. Not only does it ruin the challenge completely it furthermore incourages undergeared people to join adv/elite queues. But when these "DPSguys" aren't present the run is a guaranteed fail. Many may enjoy the quick runs, i don't.
I think Cryptic underestimated the resourcefulness of some people when it comes to dps-building. It seems the times are over when tacs in an escort did the damage, engineers in a cruiser did the tanking and scientists in a sci-ship did the healing. These high dpsers aren't even tactical players, they are often engineers in some kind of Dreadnought. So boosting "normal" players abilities would make things too easy which means that the insane dps builds need to get nerfed. I'm usually doing 10-15k dps in ISE in my cannon Defiant class ship, i don't even get a chance to go higher because the match is over so quickly. I think 20-30k dps should be the limit for the current gear progression. The worst thing that just happened was a 2 hrs afk ban from queues. I got damaged badly in ISE so i had to break away from combat to heal up which took a bit, when i returned to combat i realized everything was destroyed already except the tactical cube, i got a few shots off before even that thing melted like ice in the sunshine. Boom, the whole run was over in less than 5 minutes. Just great, 2 hrs afk ban for not participating enough. I know you guys payed a lot of real money to get all the consoles and abilities that are required to do this insane dps but somewhere deep in your heart you know it isn't right, don't you?
^ thus TRIBBLE again! Rants like this were part of the mega HP NPC borgs and the rest of the nerfs that made PVE a nightmare for some. Guy all I can say is step up your game and if your getting that spanked in ISE you shouldn't be in it. Yeah a canon Deifant in ISE and your bitching about others? They should be bitching about you! Learn the game and the builds before you spout off with nonsense like this. 10-15K is enough for normal but not for Elite level play! Oh yeah I have a torp that all by itself that does more then that!
CCA needs to be redesigned. The fact that we can roll it quickly isn't a sign of too much ship power. It means that it is deigned in a way that 10 players get to fly in, alpha blast the CE while ignoring all adds and thus complete the mission. That needs to be corrected. Then, it won't be over in 20 seconds.
Actually, it is a sign of too much ship power. Way too much.
No it is a sign that the mission was written for T-4 ships with level 10-11 consoles and weapons and needs to be updated for the current ships and level 14 consoles and weapons. Besides the OP was whining about ISE.
Seems the solution for Crystalle Entity is actually very easy. Lower the number of players on the map to 5. Even if the Infinity DPS is then still possible, it will ruin the day of a lot less players, because the guys involved can "ruin" only once instance of 5 players, not one of 10. (And chances are that they are the only ones in that instance anyway...)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
What I find fascinating is that in recent months most of the new power-creepy things where basically for free. I mean the skill and trait revamps didn’t cost, the feedback pulse trait and the haste console from the free event ship didn’t cost. The temporal spec didn’t cost. With the infinity lock box even all those top items like leech or inspirational leader were reduced to the worth of a few pennies.
And now here we are complaining about the results. Perhaps it’s time we finally start playing some elite maps instead of arguing that advanced has become too easy? I am fairly certain that all those “witnesses” of fast CCa and ISa runs get a much better chance to play a carrying role there.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I noticed that as well. I've actually been dropping some of my Lobi gear to replace them with some of the new free items. Makes me think a new round of high-powered items are coming.
Comments
Yeah, TRIBBLE any semblance of balance! We want our pay-to-whale cheese! /sarcasm
In that run, I wasn't really doing 200k+ per hit. Most of the Sci DPS skills I am using are AOE, meaning the more targets I hit, the higher my DPS gets. In CCA, there are a lot of targets.
For example, my Grav Well may be hitting for 10k per tick, which isn't much these days. However, when you start drawing 9 Tholians and the Entity with that GW, the parser will now count that as me doing 100k DPS.
That's basically how CCA DPS runs work. You try to focus fire on the Entity while trying to hit as many targets as possible at the shortest amount of time. In those runs, the parser only sees your spike damage, and not your true DPS.
As far as sub 1-min CCAs go, it's usually just 1 mega hitter with 9 10k or less players. I know because I parse all my CCAs. Take away that heavy hitter, and the run turns out to be much longer.
I posted my thoughts on what I would like to see in an Elite version of CC. I'd happily stick to Elite if it were available.
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CCA needs to be redesigned. The fact that we can roll it quickly isn't a sign of too much ship power. It means that it is deigned in a way that 10 players get to fly in, alpha blast the CE while ignoring all adds and thus complete the mission. That needs to be corrected. Then, it won't be over in 20 seconds.
How is nerfing systems that players have been using for YEARS suddenly 'balance'? And nerfing damage WON'T do anything to change the paradigm of "Cryptic sells ships in the CStore..." and "Cryptic sell keys for Lockboxes and Lobi ships and gear are better then what you can get for free...:
Why?^^^ Because the above is how Cryptic makes their money off STO and their other two MMOs.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Your correct. I've played STO since day one, back before STF's.
When they first debuted they were one mission both space and ground. They could take a long time to complete(there was no 30 minute limit back then). And yes, Starbase 24 had a ground portion as well.
Now since I'm here.... back to this nerf business. Like I said I've been playing STO since the pre-launch weekend back in 2010. I am also a survivor of the first 'nerf wars' and I do not want to see us go back there!! For goodness sake just play the game and have fun. If you don't like getting in PUGs with high DPSers don't. Find some like minded friends and run the STF's on your own.
and the sky is too blue. Way too blue.
Way to support your stance with facts and leave the "feelings" out of it.
The CE was killed in seconds in TNG by Enterprise-D, solo. What we are currently seeing would appear to be canon.
The CE Q isn't meant to last very long as evidence by the mission timers. Thought admittedly the speed at which I've seen it go down is a little on the fast side in certain cases.
My character Tsin'xing
I'm fully aware of DPS infinity. I've posted it here on the forums before. It doesn't change canon, CE was killed very quickly. It doesn't change the mission, can be completed by killing only the CE without no regard for any other mobs.
Every other STF has some patter and process to follow to gate it in some way so that DPS can't just roll in and clear a mission in a few seconds. CE's STF is an exception to that, but as others have pointed out...it's nice to have an STF that can be cleared quickly to counter the ones that force us to play 15 minutes by using time gates we have no control of.
By itself, it isn't. But it's obviously part of the larger subject. And if the broader concept of balance requires nerfing the ridiculous amounts of damage some builds can put out, so be it. You weren't sold even one single item with any assurance that its stats would never change.
That'll be a LTS reward this next year.
This should fix your high damage.
Don't force this on others.
And no, I am not one of the high-damage people.
They just get less sober.
That's what pre-made groups are for. Problem solved!
^ thus TRIBBLE again! Rants like this were part of the mega HP NPC borgs and the rest of the nerfs that made PVE a nightmare for some. Guy all I can say is step up your game and if your getting that spanked in ISE you shouldn't be in it. Yeah a canon Deifant in ISE and your bitching about others? They should be bitching about you! Learn the game and the builds before you spout off with nonsense like this. 10-15K is enough for normal but not for Elite level play! Oh yeah I have a torp that all by itself that does more then that!
And now here we are complaining about the results. Perhaps it’s time we finally start playing some elite maps instead of arguing that advanced has become too easy? I am fairly certain that all those “witnesses” of fast CCa and ISa runs get a much better chance to play a carrying role there.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!