Weapons regulations vary from state to state in the US; the feds only get into it for things like fully-automatic rifles (you need a Federal permit for those) and crossing state lines with firearms. Here in Washington, there are no regulations as to maximum length of a knife, but if it's over six inches long it has to be out where everyone can see it (unless you have a concealed-carry permit, which covers any weapon). On the other hand, saps and similar weighted blunt weapons are straight illegal, possibly because of their use in the state's earlier days when a large segment of the population was longshoremen and loggers.
Also, it's technically not illegal to carry knives in the US. It's illegal to bring them into certain public buildings, but that's a special thing. Carrying it is not considered intent since it's not officially considered a "weapon" any more than a kitchen knife is. Now, if you start talking about how you're planning to stab someone.... THAT is intent. It's also not illegal to carry a gun if you have the right licenses. Most people don't, but it IS legal to wear a pistol(unless visiting govt buildings).
Knives below a certain size I believe, and I think a switchblade is considered a weapon. But something like my leatherman multitool or a swiss army knife is acceptable I believe.
Switchblades are a special case. But AFAIK the regulations that prohibit them are not Federal, thus they may or may not be banned everywhere. Realistically, switchblades aren't very useful except for stabbing people anyways. I do own a variety of boot knives and lever action pocket knives. Heck, I once had one of the local cops ask me why I was carrying a machete around. My answer was trimming underbrush... apparently that was good enough for him.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Well... I got pulled asside at a movie theater one time because an officer saw a bulge in my coat.
I admit I was smuggling a bottle of soda since it was cheeper to get it outside at a Dollar Store, but the main thing was what he thought was a gun holster on my belt.
It was actually my little flip phone. The officer was cool about the soda, understanding the money issue, and let me go. He was only concerned about a possible weapon. Also I think he liked my little camo phone holder.
As far as open carry is concerned, I feel more comfortable if the person carrying openly is wearing a uniform and has a badge. And there is absolutely no reason to carry around long guns to public places. In Alaska I can understand carrying around guns all the time because its Alaska. You kinda need a gun. But down here in the rest of the country you do NOT need to carry a gun everywhere you go! You're not going to get attacked by bears in the middle of downtown Seattle, San Fransisco, Huston, or New York! WHY do you need to carry a gun for everyone to see?
[/soapbox]
@jonsills You're in Washington too? Which half of the state?
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
West side, outside Puyallup. And I'm not so certain about not getting attacked by bears in Seattle - Snoqualmie's not that far out, and there was a black bear wandering around out there a couple months ago...
(For that matter, if one wandered aboard the ferry in Bremerton or Poulsbo on one of the later runs, I'm not sure anyone would spot it before the ferry docked in Seattle.)
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Wow... you're not too far from me. Tacoma reporting in. ^^
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The first motion to dismiss asserted that Axanar didn't have a completed script, and therefore couldn't be determined to be fair use or not.
This was then rejected, since Axanar itself has made a few posts about a "locked script" for Axanar.
As to the whole "premature due to movie not yet made" thing; the plaintiffs lump together Prelude to Axanar and the movie itself.
The first motion to dismiss claimed there was no movie. I am not aware of any mention of a script.
Erin Ranahan, the lead lawyer of the Axanar defense team, is the one who claimed the writing on the Vulcan robes is Chinese. I don't have the video so I can't say. I'll take your word that those are actual Vulcan characters from actual Vulcan Language texts copyrighted by CBS. In any case, I have not been able to discover where those words were attributed to Mr. Peters, but as I said before, judges aren't stupid and lawyers know they risk summary judgement against for things like contempt of court.
As for Axanar Coffee, I did see a bag in a picture posted on the internet. So? Mr. Peters claims it was a fundraiser. Who but a handfull of Trek geeks knew Axanar was a reference to Trek? As a band member I walked the local neighborhood hocking everything from chocolate bars to decorative sponges.
None of this demonstrates any evidence of Mr. Peters' intent to commit fraud. As for his use of the IP owned by CBS/Paramount, well, that was well known from the outset by everyone who either was involved in the project or donated to it.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
No, but I get the feeling you are. Where is that link to Mr. Peters denying he has a script?
A lawyer will not make statements without their client's approval, meaning for her to say it is Chinese, Alec Peters (or someone speaking on his behalf) would have had to have told her it was Chinese.
Agreed. Again, I submit that if it was a lie, (I lack access to a copy of the video to check for myself, and lack an education in kanji to know the difference,) it was among the stupidest things Axnar defense could have done.
The Vulcan language, like the Klingon language, exists within the protected framework of the Star Trek IP
Actually, I could make a case, were I so inclined, that these languages, developed and used outside the Trek franchise, are not property of the Trek IP but are transformative works in themselves, and that any copyright protections devolve to the respective authors. Further, I could make a case that the languages are in fact living languages in use by a very small but committed segment of society, and languages cannot be protected under copyright law.
The level of recognition of the symbol is irrelevant, it is a part of a protected IP! It doesn't matter if anyone recognizes it, its use is a breach. Stop being pedantic.
It is part of a protected IP, yes. I have never claimed otherwise. Please stop pretending this is in any way a position I have ever asserted. My point is, simply, that everything Axanar did was done by others and, until Axanar, ignored by CBS, and that allowing this kind of endeavour to continue for decades can reasonably be construed as tacit consent for other such projects. CBS has a different view, and thus the court case.
Again, lack of progress on the project is a good indicator. Also, as with recognition, it doesn't matter if everyone involved or who donated knew it was CBS/Paramount IP! HE WAS USING THE IP WITHOUT THE IP OWNER'S PERMISSION!!! How difficult for you to understand is that? How many times must we repeat ourselves before it sinks in/you decide to accept it?
The lack of progress is due to Axanar's attempt to avoid further annoying CBS, and cannot be construed as the fault of Axanar. Read the schedule posted by Axanar in the months before the lawsuit was filed. Axanar was scheduled to begin filming in February of 2016, which date was moved up to mid January due to the early completion of sets and props. In December of 2015 the lawsuit was filed. The filming was postponed until the lawsuit could be settled. You cannot point to an action taken in an attempt to comply with the IP owner's wishes as evidence that Mr. Peters never intended to make a movie.
At best you can claim there was a conspiracy between Mr. Peters and someone in place in CBS to set the lawsuit in motion so the scam could be completed, then Mr. Peters screwed it all up by fighting the lawsuit and risking losing all the money he scammed when he could simply have said, "CBS won't allow it. Sorry, no movie. Thanks for the cash."
You see, if it was a scam similar to "The Producers", it should have been over already. There is exactly one scenario that fits all the facts: Mr. Peters wanted to make his movie, and as of the last check, is still actively working toward that goal.
P.S.
I do understand that Axanar was using elements without overt permission. No other fan film group has had such permission, ever, from CBS. Not even Renegades. As far as legalities, Axanar had exactly as much right to produce a movie as any of those others, many of which make no pretense of being transformative works and include characters and stories first seen in licensed properties of the franchise. This opens the door to something called Tacit Consent. That means a person has a reasonable basis to believe he will not be treated differently than others who have done the same thing. This concept is reinforced by a report of a meeting with CBS lawyers, (long after Axanar Coffee was on sale,) in which they reportedly informed Mr.Peters that they would not tell him what he could do, nor what he cannot. The question of whether this is a winning defense is still up in the air, and it is also irrelevent to this discussion.
The fact is, you can repeat something I have already acknowledged many pages ago until the cows come home. Repeating it is not going to change my mind because you have not introduced new information for me to absorb, and you obviously have not actually read when I posted, many times and in many ways, that Axanar has a case for being allowed, and CBS has a case for shutting them down. This is why they are going to court. If Axanar wins we may get to see many more fan made Trek fan films, and if not we'll only see fan-spoofs and licensed CBS/ Paramount products for the next 50 years.
Still, none of this supports the thesis that Mr.Peters intentionally scammed the donors and never intended to make the movie he promised his donors. What it demonstrates is that people uncritically accepted twistings of the truth and out right fabrications and used these, in the absence of supporting evidence, to villify a man, and that once the character assassination was exposed for what it is these same people are latching onto anything they can find to justify the hateful things they posted, even if they have to pretend I said something I didn't..
A lawyer will not make statements without their client's approval, meaning for her to say it is Chinese, Alec Peters (or someone speaking on his behalf) would have had to have told her it was Chinese.
Agreed. Again, I submit that if it was a lie, (I lack access to a copy of the video to check for myself, and lack an education in kanji to know the difference,) it was among the stupidest things Axanar defense could have done.
Very much so, as the Vulcan Calligraphy bears no resemblance to Cantonese(IE what most people outside of China think of as Chinese) and only a small resemblance to Manchu(which very few people use nowadays). And yet, if you had bothered to do research you would know this already. And just to prevent you from whining about needing to do research: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zThnJgj-k1Q
Actually the nice people at Axamonitor have done all the research you will ever need. But the forum software hates their website, so I can't directly link it. Look for it, it's easy to find.
Again, lack of progress on the project is a good indicator. Also, as with recognition, it doesn't matter if everyone involved or who donated knew it was CBS/Paramount IP! HE WAS USING THE IP WITHOUT THE IP OWNER'S PERMISSION!!! How difficult for you to understand is that? How many times must we repeat ourselves before it sinks in/you decide to accept it?
The lack of progress is due to Axanar's attempt to avoid further annoying CBS, and cannot be construed as the fault of Axanar. Read the schedule posted by Axanar in the months before the lawsuit was filed. Axanar was scheduled to begin filming in February of 2016, which date was moved up to mid January due to the early completion of sets and props. In December of 2015 the lawsuit was filed. The filming was postponed until the lawsuit could be settled. You cannot point to an action taken in an attempt to comply with the IP owner's wishes as evidence that Mr. Peters never intended to make a movie.
Peters had well over a YEAR to work on Axanar, instead he sat around doing fundraisers instead of making a movie. His website still boasts about how it's a "professional film" and avoids calling it a fan-film.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Interesting how he doesn't comment on the COFFEE.
Also... this is starting to get pointless. We get it. You think we're criminals for not defending someone who's got evidence stacked against him. And as I had said before, CBS wouldn't be coming down on him if he had not done something wrong to attract their attention in the first place. Of Gods and Men and Renegades didn't attract attention because they didn't do anything wrong. Axanar did. Pretty clear cut, otherwise why didn't CBS come down on them too?
Fact: CBS did NOT come down on Renegades and the other projects. ONLY Axanar.
This had gotten a little amusing, but now... frankly... its going nowhere. We've seen the evidence, you're not providing any counter evidence, and we're all just going in circles. No one is going to be convincing anyone at this rate, and all it will do is cause a flame war.
If this argument continues like this, which I believe is derailing the topic of the thread which is the lawsuit itself, I'll actually call for a mod. By all rights one of us should have earlier, but we had a pretty decent debate until someone started calling other forum members criminals for expressing their views on the situation at hand.
Ultimately, wether by design or not, Peters is harming the community by not letting the issue be settled. Word is CBS offered to settle, but Peters is attacking them, thus dragging this out much longer and ultimately harming other fan film projects present and future. Luckilly Continues was allowed to return to YouTube by CBS, but the fact remains that the rules imposed by CBS could have been lightened in a couple years, as I believe this was meant as a message only and not to punish the fans, had this whole fiasco come to an end, but as long as Peters is dragging us all through the mud I don't see that happening. So again, its the fans that suffer because of his actions. Sounds a lot like a Scorched Earth tactic to me. If I can't have my way, NO one can.
Now... can we continue this discussion in a less hostile and accusing manner, or do we need to have the mods step in? I don't like playing forum cop, but there comes a point where someone's gonna have to say something before we get into more personal attacks. And yes, I consider calling other forum members criminals to be an attack.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
The first motion to dismiss asserted that Axanar didn't have a completed script, and therefore couldn't be determined to be fair use or not.
This was then rejected, since Axanar itself has made a few posts about a "locked script" for Axanar.
As to the whole "premature due to movie not yet made" thing; the plaintiffs lump together Prelude to Axanar and the movie itself.
The first motion to dismiss claimed there was no movie. I am not aware of any mention of a script.
Erin Ranahan, the lead lawyer of the Axanar defense team, is the one who claimed the writing on the Vulcan robes is Chinese. I don't have the video so I can't say. I'll take your word that those are actual Vulcan characters from actual Vulcan Language texts copyrighted by CBS. In any case, I have not been able to discover where those words were attributed to Mr. Peters, but as I said before, judges aren't stupid and lawyers know they risk summary judgement against for things like contempt of court.
As for Axanar Coffee, I did see a bag in a picture posted on the internet. So? Mr. Peters claims it was a fundraiser. Who but a handfull of Trek geeks knew Axanar was a reference to Trek? As a band member I walked the local neighborhood hocking everything from chocolate bars to decorative sponges.
None of this demonstrates any evidence of Mr. Peters' intent to commit fraud. As for his use of the IP owned by CBS/Paramount, well, that was well known from the outset by everyone who either was involved in the project or donated to it.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
No, but I get the feeling you are. Where is that link to Mr. Peters denying he has a script?
You have access to the same internet I do, and I'm not your personal librarian; Look it up for yourself...
Agreed. Again, I submit that if it was a lie, (I lack access to a copy of the video to check for myself, and lack an education in kanji to know the difference,) it was among the stupidest things Axnar defense could have done.
I've read that copies of the scene are still out there on the net, but again, you'll have to track it down yourself... Also, if you google Chinese writing (kanji is Japanese, BTW ) and google Vulcan writing, the differences will be immediately apparent to you (and any judge )
Actually, I could make a case, were I so inclined, that these languages, developed and used outside the Trek franchise, are not property of the Trek IP but are transformative works in themselves, and that any copyright protections devolve to the respective authors. Further, I could make a case that the languages are in fact living languages in use by a very small but committed segment of society, and languages cannot be protected under copyright law.
I agree, a case is there to be made, but frankly, I'm not willing to waste the time debating it either way... It will be for the court to determine if it comes under the realm of copyrightable IP... Given that things such as Marc Okrand's Klingon Dictionary (and audio lessons) exists as licensed works, I suspect that they could/would be
It is part of a protected IP, yes. I have never claimed otherwise. Please stop pretending this is in any way a position I have ever asserted. My point is, simply, that everything Axanar did was done by others and, until Axanar, ignored by CBS, and that allowing this kind of endeavour to continue for decades can reasonably be construed as tacit consent for other such projects. CBS has a different view, and thus the court case.
And as has been repeatedly mentioned in this thread; CBS/Paramount Reserves All Rights; Including the right to allow some things, and to not allow others. It is CBS/Paramount's legal privilege to do that.
They don't have to justify why they have allowed other productions, but sued Axanar. They have the right to sue who they want, and in this regard, they wanted to sue Axanar... According to other posters on the subject (somewhere in the 45+ page thread on the subject) there is a difference between copyright and trademark, and that in one of those, a lack of 'vigorous defence' of the IP in the past, does not prejudice instances when they do decide to do so...
The lack of progress is due to Axanar's attempt to avoid further annoying CBS, and cannot be construed as the fault of Axanar. Read the schedule posted by Axanar in the months before the lawsuit was filed. Axanar was scheduled to begin filming in February of 2016, which date was moved up to mid January due to the early completion of sets and props. In December of 2015 the lawsuit was filed. The filming was postponed until the lawsuit could be settled. You cannot point to an action taken in an attempt to comply with the IP owner's wishes as evidence that Mr. Peters never intended to make a movie.
And the source of that information is?? Oh, that's right, a biased source... They can post anything they want - That they post it does not make it true...
At best you can claim there was a conspiracy between Mr. Peters and someone in place in CBS to set the lawsuit in motion so the scam could be completed, then Mr. Peters screwed it all up by fighting the lawsuit and risking losing all the money he scammed when he could simply have said, "CBS won't allow it. Sorry, no movie. Thanks for the cash."
You see, if it was a scam similar to "The Producers", it should have been over already. There is exactly one scenario that fits all the facts: Mr. Peters wanted to make his movie, and as of the last check, is still actively working toward that goal.
'and claims to be actively working toward that goal...'
Of course he will make a such a claim... His ego would not allow him to admit otherwise, and by 'giving up', he could be opening himself up to a slew of refund requests, which he is likely unable to be able of honoring.
I do understand that Axanar was using elements without overt permission. No other fan film group has had such permission, ever, from CBS. Not even Renegades. As far as legalities, Axanar had exactly as much right to produce a movie as any of those others, many of which make no pretense of being transformative works and include characters and stories first seen in licensed properties of the franchise. This opens the door to something called Tacit Consent. That means a person has a reasonable basis to believe he will not be treated differently than others who have done the same thing. This concept is reinforced by a report of a meeting with CBS lawyers, (long after Axanar Coffee was on sale,) in which they reportedly informed Mr.Peters that they would not tell him what he could do, nor what he cannot. The question of whether this is a winning defense is still up in the air, and it is also irrelevent to this discussion.
'In which he claimed...' As above, a questionable source of information.
As far as I'm aware, none of the other fan films were selling Trek-branded/themed merchandise, as ways of raising money... I think I've heard that Renegades were offering combadges as perks for donations, but that was for funds which were being directly and notably funnelled into production costs, not into everyday living expenses for the producer (ie Alec's new car/phone/gas milage etc)
And as before, CBS/Paramount has the legal privilege of deciding who they do and don't sue...
What it demonstrates is that people uncritically accepted twistings of the truth and out right fabrications[/b and used these, in the absence of supporting evidence, to villify a man, and that once the character assassination was exposed for what it is these same people are latching onto anything they can find to justify the hateful things they posted, even if they have to pretend I said something I didn't..
Not so. The commentary from former-members of the Axanar production crew is not only entitled to a presumption of honesty (or it is, of course open to legal action by Alec Peters) but that the repeating theme of these anecdotes, is of poor behaviour on the part of Alec Peters and while admittedly only coincidental, is too consistently similar to dismiss as merely disgruntled former-collaborator(s) with an axe to grind...
There are people who have beef with Alec Peters which has nothing to do with the Axanar project, but to do with prop sales (as in actual set-used props, not Axanar merch) which also highlight his egotistical behaviour, and his penchant for trying to manipulate and control the narrative, and to bad-mouth those who take issue with him. While nothing to do with Axanar, when viewing it in conjunction to this case, it does show a clear pattern of controlling, dishonest and manipulative behaviour on his part, which makes his word questionable.
As I have said before, you are allowing your own experiences of being on the receiving end of unpleasantness, to cloud your judgement, and you are defending someone who, when the information available is examined, would appear unworthy of support. And as I said before, despite having been on the receiving end of online unpleasantness, I am not allowing that experience to blind me to the idea that the comments against Alec Peters may (I believe 'do') have validity...
Even an untrained eye can see that those characters are not Chinese, however if you are deeply familiar with Star Trek, especially working on a case that involves the minutiae of certain aspects of Star Trek, those are Vulcan characters, which are protected due to the Klingon/Vulcan languages/alphabets were created for Star Trek productions. I really think this Brian is trolling, no one can be that dense.
Even an untrained eye can see that those characters are not Chinese, however if you are deeply familiar with Star Trek, especially working on a case that involves the minutiae of certain aspects of Star Trek, those are Vulcan characters, which are protected due to the Klingon/Vulcan languages/alphabets were created for Star Trek productions. I really think this Brian is trolling, no one can be that dense.
Trademarks must be "vigorously defended", which is why Marvel tried to sue Cryptic/Paragon over some of the costumes in City of Heroes (and settled out of court); copyright need not be, and exceptions can be granted by the copyright holder. Fanfic often falls under such an exception, so long as the fanfic writer is not attempting to profit by use of someone else's intellectual property. (50 Shades of Grey and its sequels had to be rewritten because they began as Twilight fanfic, and had they not been altered the author would have gotten her velvet handcuffs sued off.)
CBS/Paramount is free to enforce their copyright as they see fit. Previous to this silly demand for "guidelines", how they saw fit was pretty obvious - if you're making any money, you'd best cut them in on it. Hell, they went to bat when someone filed a pull order on Star Trek Continues at YouTube. And if Peters had settled with them for a cut of the profits (and if he were actually making a movie, which is not certain at this point), we'd probably be watching Axanar today and arguing about where it does and does not violate canon.
I did reply. Read a few posts back. Fundraising isn't illegal or immoral. If your objection is to the use of the IP in fundraising for a movie based on the IP, well, that's what the suit is all about. It also does nothing to demonstrate criminal intent on the part of the producers of Axanar.
Also... this is starting to get pointless. We get it. You think we're criminals for not defending someone who's got evidence stacked against him. And as I had said before, CBS wouldn't be coming down on him if he had not done something wrong to attract their attention in the first place. Of Gods and Men and Renegades didn't attract attention because they didn't do anything wrong. Axanar did. Pretty clear cut, otherwise why didn't CBS come down on them too?
Fact: CBS did NOT come down on Renegades and the other projects. ONLY Axanar.
Being accused when you have done nothing wrong happens all the time. When someone makes an accusation it is fair to suspect the accusations are true. It is altogether another matter to then use the fact of an accusation on one topic to be used to justify another unrelated issue. And this is what happened here. CBS had every right to protect their IP in whatever way they deemed best for them. I have never contested this. But the fact of CBSs lawsuit over IP abuse has been used to state this proves that Mr. Peters was intentionally scamming his donors. And not only is this not fair, there is no evidence to support these accusations of fraud.
This had gotten a little amusing, but now... frankly... its going nowhere. We've seen the evidence, you're not providing any counter evidence, and we're all just going in circles. No one is going to be convincing anyone at this rate, and all it will do is cause a flame war.
You have not presented any evidence to support the accusations of intentional fraud on the part of Axanar.
If this argument continues like this, which I believe is derailing the topic of the thread which is the lawsuit itself, I'll actually call for a mod. By all rights one of us should have earlier, but we had a pretty decent debate until someone started calling other forum members criminals for expressing their views on the situation at hand.
Please call a moderator. As I recall I had no part of this conversation untill my name was disparaged. I would have been happy to leave this topic without comment up until then. As for calling people criminals, well, that was what you did by repeating unsupported insinuations and fabrications about Mr. Peters supposed intent to scam donors. Pot calling the kettle black?
Ultimately, wether by design or not, Peters is harming the community by not letting the issue be settled. Word is CBS offered to settle, but Peters is attacking them, thus dragging this out much longer and ultimately harming other fan film projects present and future. Luckilly Continues was allowed to return to YouTube by CBS, but the fact remains that the rules imposed by CBS could have been lightened in a couple years, as I believe this was meant as a message only and not to punish the fans, had this whole fiasco come to an end, but as long as Peters is dragging us all through the mud I don't see that happening. So again, its the fans that suffer because of his actions. Sounds a lot like a Scorched Earth tactic to me. If I can't have my way, NO one can.
This is not only biased, but factually incorrect. Mr. Peters' success may be the only way the community continues to exist. If the posted CBS guidelines are allowed to go unchallenged, there will not be another Trek fanfilm such as has been done in the past.
The word that claims CBS tried to settle is based on nothing. There is no evidence whatsoever that CBS tried to settle, and abundant evidence they rejected every attempt by Axanar to settle in such a manner as to allow the movie to be made. It is not Mr. Peters who is dragging this out, but CBS. Even if Axanar concedes every point in CBS' claim, the only people who can end the suit work for CBS, and they have shown no intent to allow the case to go away.
I hope your conjecure about relaxed guidelines comes to pass in time. I am also encouraged that CBS is looking at fan productions on a case by case basis, which had they done earlier, would have obviated any need to sue anyone for anything.
Now... can we continue this discussion in a less hostile and accusing manner, or do we need to have the mods step in? I don't like playing forum cop, but there comes a point where someone's gonna have to say something before we get into more personal attacks. And yes, I consider calling other forum members criminals to be an attack.
I don't believe I have been either hostile or accusing. I used rhetoric to make a point. I'm sure your mod will enjoy reading the selected passeges you use to present your case. Indeed, were you to truely act like a forum cop, you woulld be forced to see the same tone I used used against me. Neither have I engaged in personal attacks, (your intentional misconstruction included.) All such come from the other side of the argument.
Finally, it is quite telling that, after all the heat, no one has offered a shred of evidence to support the accusations of criminal intent on Mr. Peters part.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
I don't believe I have been either hostile or accusing.
I'm pretty sure calling other people "criminals" can and has been considered an attack. And if you continue with that line, it will cause more people to lash out at you in response to what is being considered an attack. You have accused people who have stated their position on the lawsuit of a criminal act against Peters. You may not see it as such, but you should consider how it will appear to other people.
And frankly, I'm not just going to submit cherrypicked statements. I'll just frickin' tag a mod and let them see the whole fiasco this is turning into, and let them decide.
You seem like a pretty intelligent person, and I respect that. What I don't appreciate though is having every line disected and manipulated in a way to turn it against me or paint me as some kind of hostile entity who only follows a line. I am far from it actually. I formed my opinion based on the evidence that I had seen over time. This isn't the first thread about Axanar that's come up.
Respectfully... lets just all back off and let other people have a say instead of sniping at each other like this ok? You've said your piece, we've all said ours... we're all getting a little hot under the collar... time to just back off and cool down. Frankly I'd like to see this thread just drift off silently now than to see it continue to burn. The lawsuit will continue no matter what either side here says, and the way we feel about it will have no impact on the outcome. So lets just stop debating our positions like a deadlocked Congress. Its not accomplishing anything other than raising tensions.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I did reply. Read a few posts back. Fundraising isn't illegal or immoral. If your objection is to the use of the IP in fundraising for a movie based on the IP, well, that's what the suit is all about. It also does nothing to demonstrate criminal intent on the part of the producers of Axanar.
The coffee "fundraiser" was enough to get Peters sued for copyright violations.
What it demonstrates is that people uncritically accepted twistings of the truth and out right fabrications and used these, in the absence of supporting evidence, to villify a man, and that once the character assassination was exposed for what it is these same people are latching onto anything they can find to justify the hateful things they posted, even if they have to pretend I said something I didn't..
What was that you were saying? Tell me who else in this thread has said things like that?
Finally, it is quite telling that, after all the heat, no one has offered a shred of evidence to support the accusations of criminal intent on Mr. Peters part.
Breaking copyright laws seems adequate for "criminal intent". Although that's less of intent and more criminal actions.
What else?
People have demonstrated that Peters is guilty of Contempt of Court as he has lied to the judge more than once. (about the Vulcan text, and about the status of the script)
Then there's the fact that Peters used the funds people donated for the Axanar project for things unrelated to the film. Seriously, he even admitted to it by publicly. Don't bother trying to call it "keeping your investors informed".... It's a FANFILM project not a company. Or it shouldn't be. I mean seriously he publically stated that he kept more funds from the donations for his own personal use than the entire budget of some of the fan films that actually got made.
For a character needs to be assassinated, LFIM should have one. Given how he treated his fans, his donors (apparently now he is forcing donors to sign NDAs if they want a refund), the people that he worked with (Christian Gossett, Terry McIntosh, Tommy Kraft, and Sean Tourngeau), and how treats anyone who disagrees with him such as his outbursts on the various Facebook groups and he is banned from TrekBBS.
However, how despicable that man is, let's get to the facts, he is being sued because he took the fan film concept and took it a step further. He has repeatedly called it an independent film, because he was using professionals. He is using Star Trek as a means to launch his own personal empire, is now questioning on whether CBS/P actually owns Star Trek. He is using Star Trek to sell merchandise (yes some fan film productions use Donor Perks, but Axanar took it a step further, like selling model kits, uniforms, and coffee to name a few)
As the creator of this thread, I feel it's my duty to point out that back on the 3rd of Oct. I asked folks to be polite and refrain from attacking each other.
If anybody finds that request to be impossible to observe, then I kindly ask that person to move on.
I have no qualms about reporting folks or even asking that the thread be closed if things can't remain civil.
Mr. Peters and his lawyers are the ones who are now dragging the lawsuit out, adding more and more fuel for CBS/Paramount to be concerned about their IP rights and lengthening the debate among the fans.
Anybody who can't see that, is using tunnel vision logic and needs to widen their scope of the multitude of already presented facts.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
He is using Star Trek as a means to launch his own personal empire, is now questioning on whether CBS/P actually owns Star Trek.
It's funny, because at least according to Alec and Axanar's legal team, CBS/P do own Star Trek. So that point is moot now.
Source: Discovery motion filed on October 21st, 2016.
CBS/P are slowly whittling down Axanar's defense.
Can I please borrow your Time Machine, I would like to go back and win a few lottery's to pay off my bills.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Me too! I wanna jump to the future for a bit to see the stats on the upcoming promo Command Assault Cruiser.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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He is using Star Trek as a means to launch his own personal empire, is now questioning on whether CBS/P actually owns Star Trek.
It's funny, because at least according to Alec and Axanar's legal team, CBS/P do own Star Trek. So that point is moot now.
Source: Discovery motion filed on October 21st, 2016.
CBS/P are slowly whittling down Axanar's defense.
Sorry, the legal team filed on Sept 29th for the motion to compel to be argued over on Oct 21st. So, that LFIM latest foot-in-mouthery hasn't been solved yet.
CBS/P provided a full copyright progression, and the issue was dropped.
Yet, in the Motion to Compel, that was filed on the 29th, included a demand for a chain of title despite C/P already produced as you have shown. It is on page 4 of the 62-page document.
There must be a Ferengi hidden in a back room somewhere, writing addendums for that document.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I am not arguing that CBS has no grounds to act and I have never contested the fact that Axanar is based on an IP owned by someone else. Since I have never claimed or denied these things, constantly repeating them will have no impact on my position.
Please pay close attention to my position:
Posters on this forum posted that Mr. Peters committed intentional fraud in inducing people to donate to a movie he never intended to make. This would be a Fraud case at the Federal level, and accusing someone of a felony without evidence to support that accusation is in itself a crime. I pointed out that there is no evidence that Mr. Peters intended or effectvely perpetrated a scam. Not only is there no such evidence, but that those who have continued to make such accusations are using inuendo and character assassination to retroactively justify their decision to defame a person. There have also been posts making the claim that the fact of his being a bad person, according to some other people who have left the Axanar project, it must prove the accusations of criminal intent. It is these claims I have very specificly opposed.
And to date, evidence of intent to commit fraud has not been presented.
Some have broadened the scope of my arguements to include issues having nothing to do with the repeated unjustified claims. One such divergence is to claim I have one position or another on the actual case. My actual position on the case has never been stated, because I have only posted in opposition to the character assassination of Mr. Peters.
I was brought into this thread by a post that was intended to be a clever personal put down. And yet, at every turn I have asked for evidence to support the malicious statements made and positions taken. Invariably, the poster twisted the topic from something they could not defend to something I never contested. I suppose this is considered a celver debate technique these days, but it didn't prove me wrong.
I'm not an Axanar supporter. I've never donated a penny to Axanar, nor have I ever met, in person or by proxy, anyone involved in the Axanar project. My issue here is not the Axanar project nor is it the success of the lawsuit. My issue is the casual defamation of character perpetrated in these topics by posters who have yet to present anything of relevance to demonstrate that there was merit to the accusations they made.
OK, you've had your say on this several times now, and we get it.
Other folks have posted their thoughts on the subject of Mr. Peters credibility and it's obvious that there is a difference of opinion that is not going to be settled to your liking.
I'm asking politely one more time for you to please drop the references to any personal attacks between posters and move on.
(that goes for everybody)
If that is something you can't comply with, then perhaps it's time for you to find another topic in another thread to discuss.
And to everyone else, please do not feed anymore into this particular persons hijack of the thread.
Feel free to rip Mr. Peters and/or CBS/Paramount a new one to your hearts content, but leave the innuendos and interpersonal skirmishes out of it.
We've had two previous threads shut down due to those type of flame wars and I would like to keep this one around till a final outcome from the judge is announced.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
My character Tsin'xing
I admit I was smuggling a bottle of soda since it was cheeper to get it outside at a Dollar Store, but the main thing was what he thought was a gun holster on my belt.
It was actually my little flip phone. The officer was cool about the soda, understanding the money issue, and let me go. He was only concerned about a possible weapon. Also I think he liked my little camo phone holder.
As far as open carry is concerned, I feel more comfortable if the person carrying openly is wearing a uniform and has a badge. And there is absolutely no reason to carry around long guns to public places. In Alaska I can understand carrying around guns all the time because its Alaska. You kinda need a gun. But down here in the rest of the country you do NOT need to carry a gun everywhere you go! You're not going to get attacked by bears in the middle of downtown Seattle, San Fransisco, Huston, or New York! WHY do you need to carry a gun for everyone to see?
[/soapbox]
@jonsills You're in Washington too? Which half of the state?
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
We now return to our regularly scheduled thread.
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(For that matter, if one wandered aboard the ferry in Bremerton or Poulsbo on one of the later runs, I'm not sure anyone would spot it before the ferry docked in Seattle.)
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No, but I get the feeling you are. Where is that link to Mr. Peters denying he has a script?
Agreed. Again, I submit that if it was a lie, (I lack access to a copy of the video to check for myself, and lack an education in kanji to know the difference,) it was among the stupidest things Axnar defense could have done.
Actually, I could make a case, were I so inclined, that these languages, developed and used outside the Trek franchise, are not property of the Trek IP but are transformative works in themselves, and that any copyright protections devolve to the respective authors. Further, I could make a case that the languages are in fact living languages in use by a very small but committed segment of society, and languages cannot be protected under copyright law.
It is part of a protected IP, yes. I have never claimed otherwise. Please stop pretending this is in any way a position I have ever asserted. My point is, simply, that everything Axanar did was done by others and, until Axanar, ignored by CBS, and that allowing this kind of endeavour to continue for decades can reasonably be construed as tacit consent for other such projects. CBS has a different view, and thus the court case.
The lack of progress is due to Axanar's attempt to avoid further annoying CBS, and cannot be construed as the fault of Axanar. Read the schedule posted by Axanar in the months before the lawsuit was filed. Axanar was scheduled to begin filming in February of 2016, which date was moved up to mid January due to the early completion of sets and props. In December of 2015 the lawsuit was filed. The filming was postponed until the lawsuit could be settled. You cannot point to an action taken in an attempt to comply with the IP owner's wishes as evidence that Mr. Peters never intended to make a movie.
At best you can claim there was a conspiracy between Mr. Peters and someone in place in CBS to set the lawsuit in motion so the scam could be completed, then Mr. Peters screwed it all up by fighting the lawsuit and risking losing all the money he scammed when he could simply have said, "CBS won't allow it. Sorry, no movie. Thanks for the cash."
You see, if it was a scam similar to "The Producers", it should have been over already. There is exactly one scenario that fits all the facts: Mr. Peters wanted to make his movie, and as of the last check, is still actively working toward that goal.
P.S.
I do understand that Axanar was using elements without overt permission. No other fan film group has had such permission, ever, from CBS. Not even Renegades. As far as legalities, Axanar had exactly as much right to produce a movie as any of those others, many of which make no pretense of being transformative works and include characters and stories first seen in licensed properties of the franchise. This opens the door to something called Tacit Consent. That means a person has a reasonable basis to believe he will not be treated differently than others who have done the same thing. This concept is reinforced by a report of a meeting with CBS lawyers, (long after Axanar Coffee was on sale,) in which they reportedly informed Mr.Peters that they would not tell him what he could do, nor what he cannot. The question of whether this is a winning defense is still up in the air, and it is also irrelevent to this discussion.
The fact is, you can repeat something I have already acknowledged many pages ago until the cows come home. Repeating it is not going to change my mind because you have not introduced new information for me to absorb, and you obviously have not actually read when I posted, many times and in many ways, that Axanar has a case for being allowed, and CBS has a case for shutting them down. This is why they are going to court. If Axanar wins we may get to see many more fan made Trek fan films, and if not we'll only see fan-spoofs and licensed CBS/ Paramount products for the next 50 years.
Still, none of this supports the thesis that Mr.Peters intentionally scammed the donors and never intended to make the movie he promised his donors. What it demonstrates is that people uncritically accepted twistings of the truth and out right fabrications and used these, in the absence of supporting evidence, to villify a man, and that once the character assassination was exposed for what it is these same people are latching onto anything they can find to justify the hateful things they posted, even if they have to pretend I said something I didn't..
Actually the nice people at Axamonitor have done all the research you will ever need. But the forum software hates their website, so I can't directly link it. Look for it, it's easy to find. Peters had well over a YEAR to work on Axanar, instead he sat around doing fundraisers instead of making a movie. His website still boasts about how it's a "professional film" and avoids calling it a fan-film.
My character Tsin'xing
Also... this is starting to get pointless. We get it. You think we're criminals for not defending someone who's got evidence stacked against him. And as I had said before, CBS wouldn't be coming down on him if he had not done something wrong to attract their attention in the first place. Of Gods and Men and Renegades didn't attract attention because they didn't do anything wrong. Axanar did. Pretty clear cut, otherwise why didn't CBS come down on them too?
Fact: CBS did NOT come down on Renegades and the other projects. ONLY Axanar.
This had gotten a little amusing, but now... frankly... its going nowhere. We've seen the evidence, you're not providing any counter evidence, and we're all just going in circles. No one is going to be convincing anyone at this rate, and all it will do is cause a flame war.
If this argument continues like this, which I believe is derailing the topic of the thread which is the lawsuit itself, I'll actually call for a mod. By all rights one of us should have earlier, but we had a pretty decent debate until someone started calling other forum members criminals for expressing their views on the situation at hand.
Ultimately, wether by design or not, Peters is harming the community by not letting the issue be settled. Word is CBS offered to settle, but Peters is attacking them, thus dragging this out much longer and ultimately harming other fan film projects present and future. Luckilly Continues was allowed to return to YouTube by CBS, but the fact remains that the rules imposed by CBS could have been lightened in a couple years, as I believe this was meant as a message only and not to punish the fans, had this whole fiasco come to an end, but as long as Peters is dragging us all through the mud I don't see that happening. So again, its the fans that suffer because of his actions. Sounds a lot like a Scorched Earth tactic to me. If I can't have my way, NO one can.
Now... can we continue this discussion in a less hostile and accusing manner, or do we need to have the mods step in? I don't like playing forum cop, but there comes a point where someone's gonna have to say something before we get into more personal attacks. And yes, I consider calling other forum members criminals to be an attack.
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I've read that copies of the scene are still out there on the net, but again, you'll have to track it down yourself... Also, if you google Chinese writing (kanji is Japanese, BTW
I agree, a case is there to be made, but frankly, I'm not willing to waste the time debating it either way... It will be for the court to determine if it comes under the realm of copyrightable IP... Given that things such as Marc Okrand's Klingon Dictionary (and audio lessons) exists as licensed works, I suspect that they could/would be
And as has been repeatedly mentioned in this thread; CBS/Paramount Reserves All Rights; Including the right to allow some things, and to not allow others. It is CBS/Paramount's legal privilege to do that.
They don't have to justify why they have allowed other productions, but sued Axanar. They have the right to sue who they want, and in this regard, they wanted to sue Axanar... According to other posters on the subject (somewhere in the 45+ page thread on the subject) there is a difference between copyright and trademark, and that in one of those, a lack of 'vigorous defence' of the IP in the past, does not prejudice instances when they do decide to do so...
And the source of that information is?? Oh, that's right, a biased source... They can post anything they want - That they post it does not make it true...
'and claims to be actively working toward that goal...'
Of course he will make a such a claim... His ego would not allow him to admit otherwise, and by 'giving up', he could be opening himself up to a slew of refund requests, which he is likely unable to be able of honoring.
'In which he claimed...' As above, a questionable source of information.
As far as I'm aware, none of the other fan films were selling Trek-branded/themed merchandise, as ways of raising money... I think I've heard that Renegades were offering combadges as perks for donations, but that was for funds which were being directly and notably funnelled into production costs, not into everyday living expenses for the producer (ie Alec's new car/phone/gas milage etc)
And as before, CBS/Paramount has the legal privilege of deciding who they do and don't sue...
No one has to prove it. It's simply an opinion, and as such, people are free to agree or disagree with it.
Not so. The commentary from former-members of the Axanar production crew is not only entitled to a presumption of honesty (or it is, of course open to legal action by Alec Peters) but that the repeating theme of these anecdotes, is of poor behaviour on the part of Alec Peters and while admittedly only coincidental, is too consistently similar to dismiss as merely disgruntled former-collaborator(s) with an axe to grind...
There are people who have beef with Alec Peters which has nothing to do with the Axanar project, but to do with prop sales (as in actual set-used props, not Axanar merch) which also highlight his egotistical behaviour, and his penchant for trying to manipulate and control the narrative, and to bad-mouth those who take issue with him. While nothing to do with Axanar, when viewing it in conjunction to this case, it does show a clear pattern of controlling, dishonest and manipulative behaviour on his part, which makes his word questionable.
As I have said before, you are allowing your own experiences of being on the receiving end of unpleasantness, to cloud your judgement, and you are defending someone who, when the information available is examined, would appear unworthy of support. And as I said before, despite having been on the receiving end of online unpleasantness, I am not allowing that experience to blind me to the idea that the comments against Alec Peters may (I believe 'do') have validity...
One would hope...
CBS/Paramount is free to enforce their copyright as they see fit. Previous to this silly demand for "guidelines", how they saw fit was pretty obvious - if you're making any money, you'd best cut them in on it. Hell, they went to bat when someone filed a pull order on Star Trek Continues at YouTube. And if Peters had settled with them for a cut of the profits (and if he were actually making a movie, which is not certain at this point), we'd probably be watching Axanar today and arguing about where it does and does not violate canon.
I did reply. Read a few posts back. Fundraising isn't illegal or immoral. If your objection is to the use of the IP in fundraising for a movie based on the IP, well, that's what the suit is all about. It also does nothing to demonstrate criminal intent on the part of the producers of Axanar.
Being accused when you have done nothing wrong happens all the time. When someone makes an accusation it is fair to suspect the accusations are true. It is altogether another matter to then use the fact of an accusation on one topic to be used to justify another unrelated issue. And this is what happened here. CBS had every right to protect their IP in whatever way they deemed best for them. I have never contested this. But the fact of CBSs lawsuit over IP abuse has been used to state this proves that Mr. Peters was intentionally scamming his donors. And not only is this not fair, there is no evidence to support these accusations of fraud.
You have not presented any evidence to support the accusations of intentional fraud on the part of Axanar.
Please call a moderator. As I recall I had no part of this conversation untill my name was disparaged. I would have been happy to leave this topic without comment up until then. As for calling people criminals, well, that was what you did by repeating unsupported insinuations and fabrications about Mr. Peters supposed intent to scam donors. Pot calling the kettle black?
This is not only biased, but factually incorrect. Mr. Peters' success may be the only way the community continues to exist. If the posted CBS guidelines are allowed to go unchallenged, there will not be another Trek fanfilm such as has been done in the past.
The word that claims CBS tried to settle is based on nothing. There is no evidence whatsoever that CBS tried to settle, and abundant evidence they rejected every attempt by Axanar to settle in such a manner as to allow the movie to be made. It is not Mr. Peters who is dragging this out, but CBS. Even if Axanar concedes every point in CBS' claim, the only people who can end the suit work for CBS, and they have shown no intent to allow the case to go away.
I hope your conjecure about relaxed guidelines comes to pass in time. I am also encouraged that CBS is looking at fan productions on a case by case basis, which had they done earlier, would have obviated any need to sue anyone for anything.
I don't believe I have been either hostile or accusing. I used rhetoric to make a point. I'm sure your mod will enjoy reading the selected passeges you use to present your case. Indeed, were you to truely act like a forum cop, you woulld be forced to see the same tone I used used against me. Neither have I engaged in personal attacks, (your intentional misconstruction included.) All such come from the other side of the argument.
Finally, it is quite telling that, after all the heat, no one has offered a shred of evidence to support the accusations of criminal intent on Mr. Peters part.
I'm pretty sure calling other people "criminals" can and has been considered an attack. And if you continue with that line, it will cause more people to lash out at you in response to what is being considered an attack. You have accused people who have stated their position on the lawsuit of a criminal act against Peters. You may not see it as such, but you should consider how it will appear to other people.
And frankly, I'm not just going to submit cherrypicked statements. I'll just frickin' tag a mod and let them see the whole fiasco this is turning into, and let them decide.
You seem like a pretty intelligent person, and I respect that. What I don't appreciate though is having every line disected and manipulated in a way to turn it against me or paint me as some kind of hostile entity who only follows a line. I am far from it actually. I formed my opinion based on the evidence that I had seen over time. This isn't the first thread about Axanar that's come up.
Respectfully... lets just all back off and let other people have a say instead of sniping at each other like this ok? You've said your piece, we've all said ours... we're all getting a little hot under the collar... time to just back off and cool down. Frankly I'd like to see this thread just drift off silently now than to see it continue to burn. The lawsuit will continue no matter what either side here says, and the way we feel about it will have no impact on the outcome. So lets just stop debating our positions like a deadlocked Congress. Its not accomplishing anything other than raising tensions.
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What else?
People have demonstrated that Peters is guilty of Contempt of Court as he has lied to the judge more than once. (about the Vulcan text, and about the status of the script)
Then there's the fact that Peters used the funds people donated for the Axanar project for things unrelated to the film. Seriously, he even admitted to it by publicly. Don't bother trying to call it "keeping your investors informed".... It's a FANFILM project not a company. Or it shouldn't be. I mean seriously he publically stated that he kept more funds from the donations for his own personal use than the entire budget of some of the fan films that actually got made.
My character Tsin'xing
However, how despicable that man is, let's get to the facts, he is being sued because he took the fan film concept and took it a step further. He has repeatedly called it an independent film, because he was using professionals. He is using Star Trek as a means to launch his own personal empire, is now questioning on whether CBS/P actually owns Star Trek. He is using Star Trek to sell merchandise (yes some fan film productions use Donor Perks, but Axanar took it a step further, like selling model kits, uniforms, and coffee to name a few)
If anybody finds that request to be impossible to observe, then I kindly ask that person to move on.
I have no qualms about reporting folks or even asking that the thread be closed if things can't remain civil.
Mr. Peters and his lawyers are the ones who are now dragging the lawsuit out, adding more and more fuel for CBS/Paramount to be concerned about their IP rights and lengthening the debate among the fans.
Anybody who can't see that, is using tunnel vision logic and needs to widen their scope of the multitude of already presented facts.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
It's funny, because at least according to Alec and Axanar's legal team, CBS/P do own Star Trek. So that point is moot now.
Source: Discovery motion filed on October 21st, 2016.
CBS/P are slowly whittling down Axanar's defense.
Can I please borrow your Time Machine, I would like to go back and win a few lottery's to pay off my bills.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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Sorry, the legal team filed on Sept 29th for the motion to compel to be argued over on Oct 21st. So, that LFIM latest foot-in-mouthery hasn't been solved yet.
CBS/P provided a full copyright progression, and the issue was dropped.
Yet, in the Motion to Compel, that was filed on the 29th, included a demand for a chain of title despite C/P already produced as you have shown. It is on page 4 of the 62-page document.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Please pay close attention to my position:
Posters on this forum posted that Mr. Peters committed intentional fraud in inducing people to donate to a movie he never intended to make. This would be a Fraud case at the Federal level, and accusing someone of a felony without evidence to support that accusation is in itself a crime. I pointed out that there is no evidence that Mr. Peters intended or effectvely perpetrated a scam. Not only is there no such evidence, but that those who have continued to make such accusations are using inuendo and character assassination to retroactively justify their decision to defame a person. There have also been posts making the claim that the fact of his being a bad person, according to some other people who have left the Axanar project, it must prove the accusations of criminal intent. It is these claims I have very specificly opposed.
And to date, evidence of intent to commit fraud has not been presented.
Some have broadened the scope of my arguements to include issues having nothing to do with the repeated unjustified claims. One such divergence is to claim I have one position or another on the actual case. My actual position on the case has never been stated, because I have only posted in opposition to the character assassination of Mr. Peters.
I was brought into this thread by a post that was intended to be a clever personal put down. And yet, at every turn I have asked for evidence to support the malicious statements made and positions taken. Invariably, the poster twisted the topic from something they could not defend to something I never contested. I suppose this is considered a celver debate technique these days, but it didn't prove me wrong.
I'm not an Axanar supporter. I've never donated a penny to Axanar, nor have I ever met, in person or by proxy, anyone involved in the Axanar project. My issue here is not the Axanar project nor is it the success of the lawsuit. My issue is the casual defamation of character perpetrated in these topics by posters who have yet to present anything of relevance to demonstrate that there was merit to the accusations they made.
Other folks have posted their thoughts on the subject of Mr. Peters credibility and it's obvious that there is a difference of opinion that is not going to be settled to your liking.
I'm asking politely one more time for you to please drop the references to any personal attacks between posters and move on.
(that goes for everybody)
If that is something you can't comply with, then perhaps it's time for you to find another topic in another thread to discuss.
And to everyone else, please do not feed anymore into this particular persons hijack of the thread.
Feel free to rip Mr. Peters and/or CBS/Paramount a new one to your hearts content, but leave the innuendos and interpersonal skirmishes out of it.
We've had two previous threads shut down due to those type of flame wars and I would like to keep this one around till a final outcome from the judge is announced.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion