Yes, I spelt her name wrong. I don't care to look up the proper spelling.
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Rattler, century number is always one ahead of the calendar century, remember? (I.E. 21st Century = 2000s, 23rd Century = 2200s, etc.)
Don't worry, we all make that mistake at least once.
I'm well aware of that. What I was doing was showing that they DO have them using the only canon example, which happened to be from the 24th Century. We never saw a maternity uniform in the 22nd or 23rd Centuries. We did in the 24th. Logically... if they had them in the 24th, then they must have earlier versions.
Rattler, century number is always one ahead of the calendar century, remember? (I.E. 21st Century = 2000s, 23rd Century = 2200s, etc.)
Don't worry, we all make that mistake at least once.
I'm well aware of that. What I was doing was showing that they DO have them using the only canon example, which happened to be from the 24th Century. We never saw a maternity uniform in the 22nd or 23rd Centuries. We did in the 24th. Logically... if they had them in the 24th, then they must have earlier versions.
not even remotely...after all, they had rear admirals in the 24th century that they didn't have in the 23rd
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,531Community Moderator
STOP POKING HOLES IN MY LOGIC! Uniforms are different from rank structures.
Rattler, century number is always one ahead of the calendar century, remember? (I.E. 21st Century = 2000s, 23rd Century = 2200s, etc.)
Don't worry, we all make that mistake at least once.
I'm well aware of that. What I was doing was showing that they DO have them using the only canon example, which happened to be from the 24th Century. We never saw a maternity uniform in the 22nd or 23rd Centuries. We did in the 24th. Logically... if they had them in the 24th, then they must have earlier versions.
not even remotely...after all, they had rear admirals in the 24th century that they didn't have in the 23rd
Yes they did. Kirk was a Rear Admiral in TMP. And no one-star Admirals were seen in the 24th century at all.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Yes they did. Kirk was a Rear Admiral in TMP. And no one-star Admirals were seen in the 24th century at all.
There was also the anomaly of a COLONEL West in ST6.
Meh. It's his first name .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,531Community Moderator
Anyways... back to the subject...
Using the 24th Century variant as an example... a TOS maternity uniform would probably be a looser fitting, longer variant of the standard. TMP version would probably fall along the same lines. Enterprise... that's a tough one considering they wore jumpsuits. Maybe a two piece variant like the Voyager one. Wrath of Khan style would probably not have the turtleneck and also be looser fitting. TNG styles might fall along the same lines as Voyager.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
you mean like agent coulson's first name is agent?
Well either that or 'Colonel' is a title like 'quartermaster' or 'doctor' that is used to address characters as if it were a rank even though they wear rank insignia.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
There was also the anomaly of a COLONEL West in ST6.
The "colonel" wore a vice admiral's uniform, that's probably what his Starfleet rank was. The character of Colonel West was probably a political commentary on the Iran-Contra affair (in which a Colonel Oliver North was involved) and might have been cut from the release for that very reason.
West was named after Lt. Colonel Oliver North, who participated in the Iran–Contra affair. (Cinefantastique, Vol. 22, No. 5) In fact, West was styled after North and was essentially a thinly veiled political jab made by Nick Meyer. (Cinefantastique, Vol. 23, No. 6, p. 39)
So his "rank" was Vice Admiral, but his name was "Colonel West" so the commentary would work
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
His briefing showed the planned deployment of Starfleet Marines... They use army, rather than naval rank, therefore 'colonel' would be a perfectly valid rank for him to have, even if the rank device used was identical to that of a Starfleet Vice Admiral... Simples
His briefing showed the planned deployment of Starfleet Marines... They use army, rather than naval rank, therefore 'colonel' would be a perfectly valid rank for him to have, even if the rank device used was identical to that of a Starfleet Vice Admiral... Simples
Except that chart (unreadable in the film) is an easter egg reference to some old game or book or something and as such is to be taken as seriously as a giant duck on the Enterprise D and Starfleet Marines continue their non existence or alternatively, brief existence between TOS (where they didn't exist) and TNG (where they also don't exist).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
His briefing showed the planned deployment of Starfleet Marines... They use army, rather than naval rank, therefore 'colonel' would be a perfectly valid rank for him to have, even if the rank device used was identical to that of a Starfleet Vice Admiral... Simples
Except that chart (unreadable in the film) is an easter egg reference to some old game or book or something and as such is to be taken as seriously as a giant duck on the Enterprise D and Starfleet Marines continue their non existence or alternatively, brief existence between TOS (where they didn't exist) and TNG (where they also don't exist).
Doesn't matter... The fact is the chart existed, and made a specific identifying reference. Just because they weren't seen on TOS or TNG, can't be used as an invalidating argument that they didn't exist, because MACOs existed anytime the plot required them to exist. And when they did exist (ENT and the scene under discussion) they used army ranks, not naval ranks, as per Marine tradition...
We never saw a single crew member use a bathroom on Star Trek, but it can't be thus inferred that no one ever had to make stool...
His briefing showed the planned deployment of Starfleet Marines... They use army, rather than naval rank, therefore 'colonel' would be a perfectly valid rank for him to have, even if the rank device used was identical to that of a Starfleet Vice Admiral... Simples
Except that chart (unreadable in the film) is an easter egg reference to some old game or book or something and as such is to be taken as seriously as a giant duck on the Enterprise D and Starfleet Marines continue their non existence or alternatively, brief existence between TOS (where they didn't exist) and TNG (where they also don't exist).
Doesn't matter... The fact is the chart existed, and made a specific identifying reference. Just because they weren't seen on TOS or TNG, can't be used as an invalidating argument that they didn't exist, because MACOs existed anytime the plot required them to exist. And when they did exist (ENT and the scene under discussion) they used army ranks, not naval ranks, as per Marine tradition...
We never saw a single crew member use a bathroom on Star Trek, but it can't be thus inferred that no one ever had to make stool...
Two things:
The only bit of "genetic engineering" to survive the Eugenics wars - all "wastes" are sweated out. As one says, "just because the genetic engineering wasn't seen, can't be sued as an invalidating argument"
Meanwhile, on the issue of "rank", Coloniel = Naval Captain. Naval Vice Admiral = "Ground Forces" Major General. Based on "canon evidence", we have "Major General West", not "Colonel West". Then again, we also know that Paramount didn't really care what insignia was worn by who - which could be the convenient excuse...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
His briefing showed the planned deployment of Starfleet Marines... They use army, rather than naval rank, therefore 'colonel' would be a perfectly valid rank for him to have, even if the rank device used was identical to that of a Starfleet Vice Admiral... Simples
Except that chart (unreadable in the film) is an easter egg reference to some old game or book or something and as such is to be taken as seriously as a giant duck on the Enterprise D and Starfleet Marines continue their non existence or alternatively, brief existence between TOS (where they didn't exist) and TNG (where they also don't exist).
Doesn't matter... The fact is the chart existed, and made a specific identifying reference. Just because they weren't seen on TOS or TNG, can't be used as an invalidating argument that they didn't exist, because MACOs existed anytime the plot required them to exist. And when they did exist (ENT and the scene under discussion) they used army ranks, not naval ranks, as per Marine tradition...
We never saw a single crew member use a bathroom on Star Trek, but it can't be thus inferred that no one ever had to make stool...
Two things:
The only bit of "genetic engineering" to survive the Eugenics wars - all "wastes" are sweated out. As one says, "just because the genetic engineering wasn't seen, can't be sued as an invalidating argument"
But the Enterprise-D actually had a head on the bridge... The door to starboard, opposide the door to the conference loung... So yeah, strawman averted, and when someone had to 'boldly go', that was where they went
His briefing showed the planned deployment of Starfleet Marines... They use army, rather than naval rank, therefore 'colonel' would be a perfectly valid rank for him to have, even if the rank device used was identical to that of a Starfleet Vice Admiral... Simples
Except that chart (unreadable in the film) is an easter egg reference to some old game or book or something and as such is to be taken as seriously as a giant duck on the Enterprise D and Starfleet Marines continue their non existence or alternatively, brief existence between TOS (where they didn't exist) and TNG (where they also don't exist).
Doesn't matter... The fact is the chart existed, and made a specific identifying reference. Just because they weren't seen on TOS or TNG, can't be used as an invalidating argument that they didn't exist, because MACOs existed anytime the plot required them to exist. And when they did exist (ENT and the scene under discussion) they used army ranks, not naval ranks, as per Marine tradition...
We never saw a single crew member use a bathroom on Star Trek, but it can't be thus inferred that no one ever had to make stool...
Meanwhile, on the issue of "rank", Coloniel = Naval Captain. Naval Vice Admiral = "Ground Forces" Major General. Based on "canon evidence", we have "Major General West", not "Colonel West". Then again, we also know that Paramount didn't really care what insignia was worn by who - which could be the convenient excuse...
Well exactly, it could be that they didn't care, or just made a mistake... At the begining of VOY, Tuvok wore a Lt.Cmdr's rank pips, but was always refered to as 'Lieutenant Tuvok', and that wardrobe mistake was then corrected until he was then later promoted to Lt.Cmdr, so yeah, mistakes can happen, but the main point, that Marines use army, not naval ranks, is the only explanation needed to justify why Colonel West was indeed a colonel, not a captain
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,531Community Moderator
While identified in dialogue as a "colonel", West wore the uniform of a Starfleet vice admiral (equivalent to a lieutenant general). The display that West shows during the briefing, does mention a Starfleet Marine Corps, suggesting (along with his rank) that West is actually a Marine himself.
discussions like this remind me of why I dislike the concept of "hard" canon... it means whatever people want it to in the end.
As opposed to what? The soft-canon of novels, or worse, folks own head-canon? At least hard-canon is a relatively unquestionable medium. Sure, someone might interpret something slightly differently to someone else, but for the most parts, what is there, is there...
-Colonel West was addressed onscreen as Colonel West: That he was a colonel, is not a debatable or questionable thing.
-He was also pointing to a very noticable display, which it turns out displayed deployment plans for Starfleet Marines. That is also, not a debatable point, because it was what it was. It was a piece of specific set dressing made by the art department to be prominently featured in the scenes in question, unlike the obviously intended as a joke Giant Duck on the Enterprise-D display.
All we need to know, from that scene, is that:
i) he was a Colonel, and ii) the existence of plans involving Starfleet Marines, is all we need to say that At That Point, there were Starfleet Marines... Marines use army rank, not naval rank... That supports West being ranked as and identified as 'colonel'. In ENT, MACOs had army, not naval ranks, again backwards confirming that as a Marine officer, West would have had an army ranking.
That's what hard-canon gives us, so I can't understand why you would take issue with hard-canon as a concept
Guys... artan won't even accept the statements of the makers of TNG about why & when they stopped using the rank of Commodore, no idea why, but he has a huge blind spot on this stuff.
My point exactly. People like to say it's an unbiased standard, but it's really not always used that way.
Guys... artan won't even accept the statements of the makers of TNG about why & when they stopped using the rank of Commodore, no idea why, but he has a huge blind spot on this stuff.
This is true, he wouldn't consider actor or writer opinions on characters as valid either...
As opposed to what? The soft-canon of novels, or worse, folks own head-canon? At least hard-canon is a relatively unquestionable medium. Sure, someone might interpret something slightly differently to someone else, but for the most parts, what is there, is there...
-Colonel West was addressed onscreen as Colonel West: That he was a colonel, is not a debatable or questionable thing.
-He was also pointing to a very noticable display, which it turns out displayed deployment plans for Starfleet Marines. That is also, not a debatable point, because it was what it was. It was a piece of specific set dressing made by the art department to be prominently featured in the scenes in question, unlike the obviously intended as a joke Giant Duck on the Enterprise-D display.
All we need to know, from that scene, is that:
i) he was a Colonel, and ii) the existence of plans involving Starfleet Marines, is all we need to say that At That Point, there were Starfleet Marines... Marines use army rank, not naval rank... That supports West being ranked as and identified as 'colonel'. In ENT, MACOs had army, not naval ranks, again backwards confirming that as a Marine officer, West would have had an army ranking.
That's what hard-canon gives us, so I can't understand why you would take issue with hard-canon as a concept
Can you point out where on that chart it says something about "Starfleet Marines"? As far as I'm concerned, whoever wrote that on MA pulled it straight out of nowhere. Since it's not legible. And the character was a political commentary.
Also, MACOs existed in ENT, that's it. Upon the foundation of the UFP they were disbanded (canon, per Beyond), so they can't be around in ST VI or any point afterwards.
Guys... artan won't even accept the statements of the makers of TNG about why & when they stopped using the rank of Commodore, no idea why, but he has a huge blind spot on this stuff.
My point exactly. People like to say it's an unbiased standard, but it's really not always used that way.
The makers saying that they stopped using the Rank (where did they do that?) is not canon, though. Canon is a non debateable standard, people just don't understand how it works and then go around and start to mock others because of their own ignorance. If anyone on-screen had said "The rank of Commodore was dropped because four hundred years ago, people of earth didn't use it" it would make it canon. It wasn't, instead we never again saw a one pip Admiral, who all have been adressed "Commodore" before, on screen. As pointed out earlier, abscence doesn't mean removal (in the case of MACOs/Army service it was explicitly said they were gone, though. In fact, it was the major plot of the latest movie and happened before the alternate timeline was created).
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
As opposed to what? The soft-canon of novels, or worse, folks own head-canon? At least hard-canon is a relatively unquestionable medium. Sure, someone might interpret something slightly differently to someone else, but for the most parts, what is there, is there...
-Colonel West was addressed onscreen as Colonel West: That he was a colonel, is not a debatable or questionable thing.
-He was also pointing to a very noticable display, which it turns out displayed deployment plans for Starfleet Marines. That is also, not a debatable point, because it was what it was. It was a piece of specific set dressing made by the art department to be prominently featured in the scenes in question, unlike the obviously intended as a joke Giant Duck on the Enterprise-D display.
All we need to know, from that scene, is that:
i) he was a Colonel, and ii) the existence of plans involving Starfleet Marines, is all we need to say that At That Point, there were Starfleet Marines... Marines use army rank, not naval rank... That supports West being ranked as and identified as 'colonel'. In ENT, MACOs had army, not naval ranks, again backwards confirming that as a Marine officer, West would have had an army ranking.
That's what hard-canon gives us, so I can't understand why you would take issue with hard-canon as a concept
Can you point out where on that chart it says something about "Starfleet Marines"?
You have the same internet access that I do, and the same access to the information...
Also, MACOs existed in ENT, that's it. Upon the foundation of the UFP they were disbanded (canon, per Beyond), so they can't be around in ST VI or any point afterwards.
So now we have KT Trek dictating the history of the PrimeVerse... Nice...
Do MACOs exist in STO. Yes or No.
Many military units are deactivated and reactivated. The easiest explanation, is that as an operational unit, Starfleet Marines (whatever name they are operating under) are only activated in times of extreme emergency/war. Advanced Tactical Training took place in TNG. Ro Laren was a graduate, and the intended implication, is that Chakotay was her instructor. ATT would be a way of maintaining a 'trained corps' who can then be mobilized if required.
I'm not wasting the time repeating the points I outlined above about Colonel West, they don't need re-stating. If you want to disagree with the spoken dialogue in the movie which directly related to him, feel free, but your opinion doesn't change the fact that Marines use army, not naval, ranking, and that would then be consistent to what Trek has shown...
As opposed to what? The soft-canon of novels, or worse, folks own head-canon? At least hard-canon is a relatively unquestionable medium. Sure, someone might interpret something slightly differently to someone else, but for the most parts, what is there, is there...
-Colonel West was addressed onscreen as Colonel West: That he was a colonel, is not a debatable or questionable thing.
-He was also pointing to a very noticable display, which it turns out displayed deployment plans for Starfleet Marines. That is also, not a debatable point, because it was what it was. It was a piece of specific set dressing made by the art department to be prominently featured in the scenes in question, unlike the obviously intended as a joke Giant Duck on the Enterprise-D display.
All we need to know, from that scene, is that:
i) he was a Colonel, and ii) the existence of plans involving Starfleet Marines, is all we need to say that At That Point, there were Starfleet Marines... Marines use army rank, not naval rank... That supports West being ranked as and identified as 'colonel'. In ENT, MACOs had army, not naval ranks, again backwards confirming that as a Marine officer, West would have had an army ranking.
That's what hard-canon gives us, so I can't understand why you would take issue with hard-canon as a concept
Can you point out where on that chart it says something about "Starfleet Marines"?
You have the same internet access that I do, and the same access to the information...
Also, MACOs existed in ENT, that's it. Upon the foundation of the UFP they were disbanded (canon, per Beyond), so they can't be around in ST VI or any point afterwards.
So now we have KT Trek dictating the history of the PrimeVerse... Nice...
Do MACOs exist in STO. Yes or No.
Many military units are deactivated and reactivated. The easiest explanation, is that as an operational unit, Starfleet Marines (whatever name they are operating under) are only activated in times of extreme emergency/war. Advanced Tactical Training took place in TNG. Ro Laren was a graduate, and the intended implication, is that Chakotay was her instructor. ATT would be a way of maintaining a 'trained corps' who can then be mobilized if required.
I'm not wasting the time repeating the points I outlined above about Colonel West, they don't need re-stating. If you want to disagree with the spoken dialogue in the movie which directly related to him, feel free, but your opinion doesn't change the fact that Marines use army, not naval, ranking, and that would then be consistent to what Trek has shown...
Could you please mention when in the film West is giving this 'briefing', because I've watched TUC multiple times in the past year and I have never noticed this scene. Is it in a Director's Cut or just a deleted scene?
Comments
I'm talking about the TOS dangerously-short-skirt uniforms.
Rattler, century number is always one ahead of the calendar century, remember? (I.E. 21st Century = 2000s, 23rd Century = 2200s, etc.)
Don't worry, we all make that mistake at least once.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Yes, I spelt her name wrong. I don't care to look up the proper spelling.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
I'm well aware of that. What I was doing was showing that they DO have them using the only canon example, which happened to be from the 24th Century. We never saw a maternity uniform in the 22nd or 23rd Centuries. We did in the 24th. Logically... if they had them in the 24th, then they must have earlier versions.
not even remotely...after all, they had rear admirals in the 24th century that they didn't have in the 23rd
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Yes they did. Kirk was a Rear Admiral in TMP. And no one-star Admirals were seen in the 24th century at all.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
There was also the anomaly of a COLONEL West in ST6.
Meh. It's his first name
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Using the 24th Century variant as an example... a TOS maternity uniform would probably be a looser fitting, longer variant of the standard. TMP version would probably fall along the same lines. Enterprise... that's a tough one considering they wore jumpsuits. Maybe a two piece variant like the Voyager one. Wrath of Khan style would probably not have the turtleneck and also be looser fitting. TNG styles might fall along the same lines as Voyager.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Well either that or 'Colonel' is a title like 'quartermaster' or 'doctor' that is used to address characters as if it were a rank even though they wear rank insignia.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I laughed out loud. Twice.
The "colonel" wore a vice admiral's uniform, that's probably what his Starfleet rank was. The character of Colonel West was probably a political commentary on the Iran-Contra affair (in which a Colonel Oliver North was involved) and might have been cut from the release for that very reason.
EDIT: Indeed it was.
So his "rank" was Vice Admiral, but his name was "Colonel West" so the commentary would work
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Except that chart (unreadable in the film) is an easter egg reference to some old game or book or something and as such is to be taken as seriously as a giant duck on the Enterprise D and Starfleet Marines continue their non existence or alternatively, brief existence between TOS (where they didn't exist) and TNG (where they also don't exist).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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We never saw a single crew member use a bathroom on Star Trek, but it can't be thus inferred that no one ever had to make stool...
Two things:
The only bit of "genetic engineering" to survive the Eugenics wars - all "wastes" are sweated out. As one says, "just because the genetic engineering wasn't seen, can't be sued as an invalidating argument"
Meanwhile, on the issue of "rank", Coloniel = Naval Captain. Naval Vice Admiral = "Ground Forces" Major General. Based on "canon evidence", we have "Major General West", not "Colonel West". Then again, we also know that Paramount didn't really care what insignia was worn by who - which could be the convenient excuse...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Well exactly, it could be that they didn't care, or just made a mistake... At the begining of VOY, Tuvok wore a Lt.Cmdr's rank pips, but was always refered to as 'Lieutenant Tuvok', and that wardrobe mistake was then corrected until he was then later promoted to Lt.Cmdr, so yeah, mistakes can happen, but the main point, that Marines use army, not naval ranks, is the only explanation needed to justify why Colonel West was indeed a colonel, not a captain
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-Colonel West was addressed onscreen as Colonel West: That he was a colonel, is not a debatable or questionable thing.
-He was also pointing to a very noticable display, which it turns out displayed deployment plans for Starfleet Marines. That is also, not a debatable point, because it was what it was. It was a piece of specific set dressing made by the art department to be prominently featured in the scenes in question, unlike the obviously intended as a joke Giant Duck on the Enterprise-D display.
All we need to know, from that scene, is that:
i) he was a Colonel, and ii) the existence of plans involving Starfleet Marines, is all we need to say that At That Point, there were Starfleet Marines... Marines use army rank, not naval rank... That supports West being ranked as and identified as 'colonel'. In ENT, MACOs had army, not naval ranks, again backwards confirming that as a Marine officer, West would have had an army ranking.
That's what hard-canon gives us, so I can't understand why you would take issue with hard-canon as a concept
My character Tsin'xing
Can you point out where on that chart it says something about "Starfleet Marines"? As far as I'm concerned, whoever wrote that on MA pulled it straight out of nowhere. Since it's not legible. And the character was a political commentary.
Also, MACOs existed in ENT, that's it. Upon the foundation of the UFP they were disbanded (canon, per Beyond), so they can't be around in ST VI or any point afterwards.
The makers saying that they stopped using the Rank (where did they do that?) is not canon, though. Canon is a non debateable standard, people just don't understand how it works and then go around and start to mock others because of their own ignorance. If anyone on-screen had said "The rank of Commodore was dropped because four hundred years ago, people of earth didn't use it" it would make it canon. It wasn't, instead we never again saw a one pip Admiral, who all have been adressed "Commodore" before, on screen. As pointed out earlier, abscence doesn't mean removal (in the case of MACOs/Army service it was explicitly said they were gone, though. In fact, it was the major plot of the latest movie and happened before the alternate timeline was created).
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Your opinion... The legibility is irrelevant, for the reason I gave above. I'm not repeating myself.
Yes. It was a reference to a US Marine... So what?
So now we have KT Trek dictating the history of the PrimeVerse... Nice...
Do MACOs exist in STO. Yes or No.
Many military units are deactivated and reactivated. The easiest explanation, is that as an operational unit, Starfleet Marines (whatever name they are operating under) are only activated in times of extreme emergency/war. Advanced Tactical Training took place in TNG. Ro Laren was a graduate, and the intended implication, is that Chakotay was her instructor. ATT would be a way of maintaining a 'trained corps' who can then be mobilized if required.
I'm not wasting the time repeating the points I outlined above about Colonel West, they don't need re-stating. If you want to disagree with the spoken dialogue in the movie which directly related to him, feel free, but your opinion doesn't change the fact that Marines use army, not naval, ranking, and that would then be consistent to what Trek has shown...
Could you please mention when in the film West is giving this 'briefing', because I've watched TUC multiple times in the past year and I have never noticed this scene. Is it in a Director's Cut or just a deleted scene?
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood