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Warp Geometry - Why the Constellation has 4 nacelles?
jonathan
Member Posts: 105 Arc User
in Ten Forward
Ok... so maybe the game already incorporates this function... yet I have been thinking of the warp field as being an emitted field by the deflector that converges on a point of space in concentrated repetition creating a pulse that expands outward as the ship moves by impulse... until the field is spread across the hull. This is where the geometry part comes in... Nacelles. The nacelles with their electro-plasma reaction to the deflectors emission also elector-plasma reaction... stretch the field across the ship creating a mode of faster than light travel. Ok. so why 4 nacelles? The Constellation is a Tug/cruiser. It is meant to tow vessels when need be... four nacelles means the Constellation could do this at warp if the tow is confinable in the warp field. Seems pretty basic. Anyone want to discuss?
<|>< . . . <z^>< . . . <zX^>< <( (..) )> oO(There's always a bigger Fish in the sea.)
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Using this rationale, the TNG nacelles probably only house one coil and so to keep the numbers even the constellaton has four which creates a more "stable" warp flight as opposed to a constitution that has only two. Or something like that.
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Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
The Prommie is a weird one; it actually has three separate cores and six nacelles: there's two small retractable ones on the Alpha section. It's a four nacelle ship that separates into three two-nacelle ships that are all independently warp-capable.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
As for the Constellation-Class having four nacelles: Originally, the Stargazer was going to be a Constitution-Class, but they changed their minds last-minute, and went with a kit-bash instead
Thanks Kane. And the rest of you. I've concluded that I do not yet know. I think it would be interesting to see how the nacelles float the warp field. I kind of think it sculpts the " subspace stream"... I keep wanting to draw it like a water jet being pushed backwards... or maybe how the nacelles impact like rocks you see holding back water in a stream/river.
My guess is it would be a 23rd + 24th century version of a "wind tunnel"
Nope, the effect (both in Trek and real-world physics is thus)
No jets or streams involved...
[Edit] And where have we seen drive rings before...?
The nacelles are the field generators for the warp field, not really floating. The coils are extended away from the rest of the hull as they aren't exactly the safest thing to be around.
If you're curious about 'Trek science', I would recommend the Star Trek TNG Technical Manual - it's probably the best thought out and closest thing to the writers' own tech bible.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
We're still waiting to see if White can get his experiments to yield pockets of warped space; the problem is that the theory requires the use of negative energy, and the only way we have so far to generate that involves placing two extremely smooth metallic blocks less than one Planck length apart - and the tolerances on that are so very tight that almost anything can throw the laser (being used to measure for warped spaces) off, from microtremors to gravity waves. The initial run had to be thrown out when it was found that traffic on the freeway five miles away was ruining the measurements.
Also keep the Defiant in mind; it's "nacelles" were integrated with the rest of the ship, yet still functioned the same.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
There may be no practical applications, but the math involved is enough to consider the Alcubierre-White drive as a valid model, not mere sci-fi handwavium of "It goes faster-than-light Because Author Says So..." And that model is too close to the InVerse-described nature of a warp drive to ignore...
Contemporary science may not yet have the means to 'make it go', but once it develops the ability to do so...
Well, besides the 'shaking itself apart' problem it had in shakedowns, sure.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
They fixed it eventually.
Winning.
Oh, now don't tell me you want in on all this! Well, ok. Look this that Egg Pawn hanging outside your window, pointing his laser rifle at you, waiting for my next order. He's doing his part. He helps conquer the weak-minded. He roboticizes the weak-bodied. Heck, he even helps keep the useless people from causing any trouble, but you know what? Join. Find the closest Nataran Empire roboticization center near you and join the ranks, before the ranks find you. Oh, I know, you figure it must be so satisfying to know I basically rule the world now, and you know what? It is, but do you want to know the true definition of satisfaction? Well, let me tell you a little story. One day, you see a brand new event. They're giving out boxes that give old event stuff. Your dilithium is plentiful. You buy a whole lot of Phoenix packs on your main, and open them all. You get one epic token. Then, you decide, that since you have all the Breen ships and don't give a damn about the others, you exchange it for an ultra rare, and grab yourself a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and for the hell of it, a Voth Bulwark. You open both, leaving the Bulwark in your vast masses of starships as you jump into the bugship and deck it out, deck by deck, into the most awesome Jem'Hadar ship you can. You fly it. You enjoy it. Eventually, you get bored and leave, leaving the old Bulwark never flown... until later. Your main is long complete. Your new alt main, based off some character you pulled out of nothing just to explain away some starship being in service without the command of your dear admiral, is also complete. Mostly. Their reps and doffs are hard at work, getting you stuff. You realize the potential, and head back for your dear admiral, pull the most Voth themed build you can out of thin air, and suit up in your giant ship in the shape of you know what. You head out... and cause all sorts of havoc. Enemies scream out your name as their very life is drained away by your swarms of Aceton Assimilators. They complain to the devs of your OPness when you revive yourself from death every time you die. Do you show any form of mercy? No. After all, this isn't the United Federation of Planets, this is mother frakkin' Starfleet, where you explore strange new worlds and kick butt never kicked before. Oh, and you realize that I just wrote another speech rivaling your own signature. Cool. Oh, wait, that's just the original draft, it is part of my signature now. Oh, and yes, I am aware that I have become a Canadian Regent; one day, sooner than you'd expect, we'll suddenly decide to take over the world and declare an "alliance", and I shall become it's Regent. You know, like the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance in the mirror universe of our beloved Star Trek. Oh, who'll we be taking over with? I dunno, maybe [REDACTED], or maybe aliens from outer space. Guess you'll have to wait and find out, won't we? Until then, don't ask too many questions, or else my Breen allies on Titania might pick up on your -- [REDACTED BY BREEN CONFEDERACY FOR REASONS] Also, psst... keep an eye out for flying Tribbles! Also walls. Big, great walls, separating entire continents apart. Walls patrolled by Tribbles. Flying Tribbles. Flying Nukara Tribbles. Don't worry, it's not like they were on Venus with a herd of Tholians or anything, they just like the extreme heat and brutal weather like acid rain and hurricane force winds as the norm. Oh, and definitely keep your eye out on any two-tailed foxes, because if they ain't glowing, they're definitely an imposter. Possibly an Undine, we caught one of those once in my place once. Oh, and if you find a two-tailed fox that doesn't like the cold... most certainly ask him to say sorry. If he refuses, DESTROY HIM WITH A DOOMSDAY MACHINE, BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING ELSE THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH AGAINST SUCH AN OVERPOWERED IMPOSTER!
tr;dr, I am winning last post wins 3.0. Thank you for your time.
The nacelles generate a field of "subspace" (the same region that subspace radio works in) around the ship. In said "subspace" the value of C (light speed) is astronomically higher, so that the effects of travelling say, 1/2 C in subspace = 512*C in "our" space.
Mucking with the field some (original transwarp theories, what the Traveller did to Enterprise-D) can cause the "mathematics" of warp drive to change (such as when they went from the warp factor cubed = light speed equivalent TOS scale to logarithmic curve of TNG. Different field construction = different values of C around ship = different values of speed equivalencies...
Roddenberry, in an effort to "decanonize" the Franz Joseph Designs, unilaterally declared that nacelles had to work in pairs. And of course, once Rodenberry passed, TPTB slipped in the Galaxy-X to "recanonize" the possibility of odd-nacelle designs.
Though one theory I vaguely recall seeing is that the center nacelle on the Gal-X isn't part of the propulsion system, it's a "warp power plant" stuck in a nacelle body so that the ship can generate the warp power necessary to transmit to the phasers (because phasers run off of warp power as per TMP), especially the "phaser lance"... This was cited to explain how the Gal-X still retained functionality while staying within Roddenberry's restrictions...
Which, incidentally, is the basis one of my arguments that ST will beat SW. While SW "leaves" normal space to go to hyperspace, ST brings "hyperspace" to them, and has figured out how to see through the differences (advanced sensors) so they can zip around faster than the enemies can track peppering them with the death of a million paper cuts...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
No they would't.
Gravity Wells.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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So my speculation:
The Stargazer was developed when the warp field tech was awaiting a major breakthrough, but didn't. They still wanted a faster ship, but couldn't hack it with just 2 nacelles or 2 warp coils. So they tried it with 4. That was very inefficient, however, leading to a speed increase that might have been noteworthy - but to an energy requirement increase that was even more noteworthy. The result was a ship that could fly faster than a Constitution perhaps - but needed a lot more power for this.
And then, the Excelsior came along with its new "transwarp" drive, and they had managed thatspeed-up without extra coils. Its engine were faster at the same level of power, and it probably had even better warp core. And now the Stargazer is underpowered, and gets overworked, because it is expected to travel at speeds that come much easier to other ships.
And then they throw this thing at the Cardassians in the Cardassian War...
Kinda disproven by the Saladin class and Kelvin type, that had only a single nacelle. While we have ever seen a Saladin class on screen, they did have one displayed on the monitors of the Enterprise in ST2 and 3.
The Kelvin existed long before the timeline branched into an alternate universe so there's another case of a singe nacelle design.
Though it has two nacelles the NC Class has integrated nacelles (similar to the defiant), not ones on pylons. There's also this ship from TAS...
There's also another two similar ships in the bottom right of this image...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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which is why they need to move the experiments to space where traffic and freeways don't exist
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I do love the Prometheus... feels very "Trinitarian".
I did think of a design for a 3-in-1 ship myself a few years ago... rather than having retractable nacelles, the alpha section I envisaged was essentially a flattened dow Delta Flyer shape that had its warp system configured in the two equal angles of the isosceles wedge shape (the back of the saucer).
The Beta section shared design elements with a Defiant and the gamma section was a more conventional battle bridge... or perhaps a Voyager back end set up... potentially allowing the ship to not only break into three segments but also have each element capable of atmospheric/landing deplpoyment.
So six nacelles, four of which were integrated.
Essentially I wanted a ship that had the ability and design to fire pulse phasers as a frontal battery whilst still combined.
Slingshot effect - running at warp using the gravity well of a star to help accelerate the ship past the point where your speed is sufficient enough to break the time barrier.
Warping out of a planet's atmosphere - annoying to the planet in question, however, so not done often, at least they usually warp out of orbit.
It takes a near Black Hole level gravity well to disrupt Trek Warp Drives, a level of power that I don't think the Imperials can generate...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
They can...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!