The even sadder part is that this probably has no more substance than a "fan" trying to manipulate her.
Oi... and it's just as useless... irrelevant... and wasteful...
did I miss anything?
was referring to this thread rather than the subject. There's probably an episode with the subject as mentioned by Azrael.
still, who really cares? Their lives are their own (or their creator's choices) and nothing else about it matters. Not like anyone here is going to jump up in the morning and be affected one way or the other by any of this - so... *shrug*
Sulu showing romantic/sexual interest in females does not automatically preclude him from having a similar interest in men - sexual orientation isn't necessarily an either/or thing, you can be attracted to both.
Back on-topic, it's exactly these kind of incidents which make me wish it was far easier to sue for slander. People can express whatever opinions they like, but if you're actually going to accuse someone of bigotry, you'd better damn well be ready to back it up!
um. In real life George Takei was married to Nichelle Nichols before they divorced so that he could pursue the guy he was interested in. So orientation had nothing to do with his marriage or Star Trek in general, which was probably addressed above (but since this topic is exactly the kind of TRIBBLE I hate to listen to, I didn't bother to read most of it after the first hate-bashing type verbage started - whether it was intended as such or not...).
Now if you jump back to the original point of this thread, you'll find that it dealt with the author of Harry Potter having an issue with someone else trying to change a character from the way they designed that character to be (nothing more and nothing less). This is no different than someone taking the original Enterprise and changing it's design without permission. It falls into the same category. FANS can do whatever they like - IF the author/creator/owner gives them WRITTEN permission to do so. If the author withholds that permission, then any person/entity attempting to modify a character in any fashion/form/or method is liable for legal liability and damages - in point, they can be arrested and sued for it globally (See: Mickey Mouse). There's more to this, but it's business and creator/artist/author ethics, not to mention legal TRIBBLE, so someone else can explain it to the thick skulls. I can't be bothered with it.
There's a whole section in the Legal Library of the US for this sort of thing. But that's not even touching on England and any of the overseas markets.
One of the acronym groups has a branch that does nothing but persue this type of stuff.
(...)Yeah, same here. I do like how they handled it with Sulu in the actual movie, though: his husband and kid are visible for all of twenty seconds in the entire film and he's still the same talented and confident conn officer we've known for two movies. I.e. "Yeah, he's g*y, so what, who cares, let's go back to sci-fi coolness now."
I agree, it was executed as I would expect it and is in line with Cryptic's inclusion of a homosexual Klingon couple. I however find "making" Sulu homosexual a problematic decision. They claimed it was to honour Takei, who however is still alive and well and didn't want this kind of "honour" for good reasons as it comes off as very uncreative and unflexible - make the character homosexual because his actor was. It also get's a strong "token" flavour. It would have been, in my opinion, "better" to show any of the other characters to have settled with a same sex partner, from Kirk to Uhura.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
One such example is "**** Sulu" over Roddenberry's stating he was straight, and George Takei's objection on the grounds that canon should be respected. Far too many people have emotionally identified with '**** Sulu' to ever again accept a straight Sulu. I, like Mr. Takei, think he is a good enough **** actor to play a straight man on TV. But then, I have no emotional investment in the issue.
Star trek canon is the material included in the shows or films not any behind the scenes material at all. Sulu had no sexuality onscreen not influenced by a virus and is a blank slate as far as canon is confirmed.
His daughter who bore his family name appeared in Generations. This is not evidence he is straight, but Sulu was shown on screen on more than one occasion displaying interest in females.
While there is no proof, the preponderance of evidence shows he isn't. Until Beyond.
I just chalk it up to the timeline split. He and several of the other crew members (Chekov for example) were born after it, which would be enough for KT!Sulu to swing the other direction (since current science suggests sexual orientation is determined during gestation IIRC).
Was he? Spock, Kirk, Scotty, and Bones are all the same age as each other (or slightly older in the case of the last two) and Checkov is certainly a different character to the prime version. But is there any actual figures on the ages of Sulu and Uhura?
Also, as pointed out on a further page, being married to a man doesn't necessarily make Sulu g.ay, he could be bi. Though I still don't see how staring at a Klingon's ar.se and calling Uhura 'fair' are indications of being straight. It's still possible for g.ay people to find people aesthetically appealing even if they don't find them sexually appealing.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
(...)
Also, as pointed out on a further page, being married to a man doesn't necessarily make Sulu g.ay, he could be bi. Though I still don't see how staring at a Klingon's ar.se and calling Uhura 'fair' are indications of being straight. It's still possible for g.ay people to find people aesthetically appealing even if they don't find them sexually appealing.
Is that a g.ay trait? Ha, I knew it! Straight people never compliment you just for the sake of it...
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
um. In real life George Takei was married to Nichelle Nichols before they divorced so that he could pursue the guy he was interested in.
Nichelle Nichols was only married twice. First to Foster Johnson (married and divorced in 1951) and second to Duke Mondy (1967-1972).
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
(...)
Also, as pointed out on a further page, being married to a man doesn't necessarily make Sulu g.ay, he could be bi. Though I still don't see how staring at a Klingon's ar.se and calling Uhura 'fair' are indications of being straight. It's still possible for g.ay people to find people aesthetically appealing even if they don't find them sexually appealing.
Is that a g.ay trait? Ha, I knew it! Straight people never compliment you just for the sake of it...
Well it's a trait of most people it was just something specifically relevant to Sulu's comments to Uhura and the Klingon women.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
um. In real life George Takei was married to Nichelle Nichols before they divorced so that he could pursue the guy he was interested in. So orientation had nothing to do with his marriage or Star Trek in general, which was probably addressed above (but since this topic is exactly the kind of **** I hate to listen to, I didn't bother to read most of it after the first hate-bashing type verbage started - whether it was intended as such or not...).
Now if you jump back to the original point of this thread, you'll find that it dealt with the author of Harry Potter having an issue with someone else trying to change a character from the way they designed that character to be (nothing more and nothing less). This is no different than someone taking the original Enterprise and changing it's design without permission. It falls into the same category. FANS can do whatever they like - IF the author/creator/owner gives them WRITTEN permission to do so. If the author withholds that permission, then any person/entity attempting to modify a character in any fashion/form/or method is liable for legal liability and damages - in point, they can be arrested and sued for it globally (See: Mickey Mouse). There's more to this, but it's business and creator/artist/author ethics, not to mention legal ****, so someone else can explain it to the thick skulls. I can't be bothered with it.
Say whaaaaaaat??
Actually, I don't think she had an issue with the fan trying to change it, I think they asked if Sirius was TRIBBLE, she said that he wasn't, and then the Snowflakes got butt-hurt and went postal, as is their wont to do...
(...)
Also, as pointed out on a further page, being married to a man doesn't necessarily make Sulu g.ay, he could be bi. Though I still don't see how staring at a Klingon's ar.se and calling Uhura 'fair' are indications of being straight. It's still possible for g.ay people to find people aesthetically appealing even if they don't find them sexually appealing.
Is that a g.ay trait? Ha, I knew it! Straight people never compliment you just for the sake of it...
You have very nice hooves, by the way.
Mustrum "I don't complinent real people, that would mean talking to an attractive women or being mistaken for TRIBBLE" Ridcully
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
One such example is "**** Sulu" over Roddenberry's stating he was straight, and George Takei's objection on the grounds that canon should be respected. Far too many people have emotionally identified with '**** Sulu' to ever again accept a straight Sulu. I, like Mr. Takei, think he is a good enough **** actor to play a straight man on TV. But then, I have no emotional investment in the issue.
Star trek canon is the material included in the shows or films not any behind the scenes material at all. Sulu had no sexuality onscreen not influenced by a virus and is a blank slate as far as canon is confirmed.
His daughter who bore his family name appeared in Generations. This is not evidence he is straight, but Sulu was shown on screen on more than one occasion displaying interest in females.
While there is no proof, the preponderance of evidence shows he isn't. Until Beyond.
I just chalk it up to the timeline split. He and several of the other crew members (Chekov for example) were born after it, which would be enough for KT!Sulu to swing the other direction (since current science suggests sexual orientation is determined during gestation IIRC).
Was he? Spock, Kirk, Scotty, and Bones are all the same age as each other (or slightly older in the case of the last two) and Checkov is certainly a different character to the prime version. But is there any actual figures on the ages of Sulu and Uhura?
Also, as pointed out on a further page, being married to a man doesn't necessarily make Sulu g.ay, he could be bi. Though I still don't see how staring at a Klingon's ar.se and calling Uhura 'fair' are indications of being straight. It's still possible for g.ay people to find people aesthetically appealing even if they don't find them sexually appealing.
Mirror Universe Sulu definitely wanted a er... 'piece of the action'... with Uhura... Alternate quantum reality wouldn't alter the biochemistry which determines sexuality, and while sexuality can be flexible for some, that also does not mean that it is flexible for all. Also, statistics would suggest hetero rather than homo, just as statistics would suggest right-handed rather than left-handed.
On the flip-side of that, perhaps Sulu was just pretending to perv on the Klingon, because he didn't want anyone(Chekov) to know he was g.ay (don't ask, don't tell and the like...) An example of that, is Malcolm Reed... Malcolm was definitely seen with women, and once even said that he thought T'Pol had 'a nice bum' (or did he say 'TRIBBLE'?) But, Dominic Keating has said that he always played Malcolm as g.ay... Give Malcolm's other examples of 'doing things so as to not cause waves', I blend the on-screen canon and off-screen commentary that Malcolm was g.ay, but in the closet...
(...)Yeah, same here. I do like how they handled it with Sulu in the actual movie, though: his husband and kid are visible for all of twenty seconds in the entire film and he's still the same talented and confident conn officer we've known for two movies. I.e. "Yeah, he's g*y, so what, who cares, let's go back to sci-fi coolness now."
I agree, it was executed as I would expect it and is in line with Cryptic's inclusion of a homosexual Klingon couple. I however find "making" Sulu homosexual a problematic decision. They claimed it was to honour Takei, who however is still alive and well and didn't want this kind of "honour" for good reasons as it comes off as very uncreative and unflexible - make the character homosexual because his actor was. It also get's a strong "token" flavour. It would have been, in my opinion, "better" to show any of the other characters to have settled with a same sex partner, from Kirk to Uhura.
The last episode of Continues, had Sulu reference a great great great (etc) grandfather being in an internment camp... IMHO that was honoring George Takei... Making KT Sulu g.ay, was not... (especially when he had asked them specifically not to)
Mustrum "I don't complinent real people, that would mean talking to an attractive women or being mistaken for ****" Ridcully
Oh my . If you're straight then you're hitting on me. And you have no idea how dangerously close you are to pushing a button Luckily for you I prefer a different set of cromosomes
Angry "Definitely, seriously and absolutely has no kinky thing for hooves, I swear" Targ
Mirror Universe Sulu definitely wanted a er... 'piece of the action'... with Uhura... (...)
That would be a bad example however, as r.a.pe for dominance has little to do with sexuality. The MU is really a dark place when we first see it.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Okay, one thing needs straightened out here (no pun intended).
George did NOT ask anyone to do anything about Sulu. He was told about KT Sulu's orientation, and said, in essence, "Well, I don't think that's really what Gene had in mind, and it's not necessary to make me feel any better, but I think John Cho can play this well enough."
Folks keep carrying on as if George were angry about this change, and demanded that it be reverted, only to be ignored, and that's about as far from the truth as the claim that he ever married Nichelle (or any other woman, for that matter).
Mirror Universe Sulu definitely wanted a er... 'piece of the action'... with Uhura... Alternate quantum reality wouldn't alter the biochemistry which determines sexuality, and while sexuality can be flexible for some, that also does not mean that it is flexible for all.
I dunno about that one, the Mirror Universe seems to work differently to other alternate timelines (the KT, Yesterday's Enterprise etc.) and the sexualaties of Kira, Leeta, and Ezri are changed in the DS9 MU ( well changed as far as we know anyway). But as Angrytarg points out, sex in the MU seems to be about power more than anything else, or at least in the ENT and TOS MU.
On the flip-side of that, perhaps Sulu was just pretending to perv on the Klingon, because he didn't want anyone(Chekov) to know he was g.ay (don't ask, don't tell and the like...) An example of that, is Malcolm Reed... Malcolm was definitely seen with women, and once even said that he thought T'Pol had 'a nice bum' (or did he say '****'?) But, Dominic Keating has said that he always played Malcolm as g.ay... Give Malcolm's other examples of 'doing things so as to not cause waves', I blend the on-screen canon and off-screen commentary that Malcolm was g.ay, but in the closet...
You said that about Malcolm last time this came up but I still don't get it. It's the Federation, a utopian society of such astounding liberalness they let a child fly the Federation flagship on a regular basis and counsellors show up in catsuits to work.
'Don't ask, don't tell' has been repealed, even in the infamously conservative US military, already and we're only in the 21st century. I can't think of a single reason why Sulu or Malcolm would need to pretend to be straight any more than Picard would need to pretend not to be bald or Uhura would to pretend to not be black.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Mirror Universe Sulu definitely wanted a er... 'piece of the action'... with Uhura... Alternate quantum reality wouldn't alter the biochemistry which determines sexuality, and while sexuality can be flexible for some, that also does not mean that it is flexible for all.
I dunno about that one, the Mirror Universe seems to work differently to other alternate timelines (the KT, Yesterday's Enterprise etc.) and the sexualaties of Kira, Leeta, and Ezri are changed in the DS9 MU ( well changed as far as we know anyway). But as Angrytarg points out, sex in the MU seems to be about power more than anything else, or at least in the ENT and TOS MU.
That's true, their sexualities were flipped, but as you say, the MU also works differently than other alternates...
Also, statistics would suggest hetero rather than homo, just as statistics would suggest right-handed rather than left-handed.
That's not an argument for anything.
It's just a statement of fact... Statistically speaking, someone is more likely to encounter a hetero rather than a homo, and a right-hander than a left-hander...
You said that about Malcolm last time this came up but I still don't get it. It's the Federation, a utopian society of such astounding liberalness they let a child fly the Federation flagship on a regular basis and counsellors show up in catsuits to work. 'Don't ask, don't tell' has been repealed, even in the infamously conservative US military, already and we're only in the 21st century. I can't think of a single reason why Sulu or Malcolm would need to pretend to be straight any more than Picard would need to pretend not to be bald or Uhura would to pretend to not be black.
False. Simon Tarses had to pretend that his grandfather was Vulcan not Romulan...
As I said last time, recall the episode where Hoshi is trying to track down Malcolm's favorite food, and his parents can't tell her anything beyond he used to eat whatever he was given... Malcolm's entire nature is of 'doing his job and not making waves' and doing what he considers 'proper conduct for an officer'... If he felt it was expected of him to make nice with the ladies while in company, that's what he would do. Also, recall Travis' story about encountering some 'hot alien ladies' (I forget which species) and he was encouraged to do workouts and the like, rather than engaging in sexual behaviour. That suggests that Earth's (or at least his family's) approach to sexuality wasn't quite as liberal as you're trying to make out)
There's no need for hyperbole... Wesley was in his teens, so certainly not 'a child'. Considering Betazoid customs, I suspect the reason Troi didn't turn up for duty naked, is that it would be 'improperly dressed' and could potentially create a distraction to other crew. As Captain Jellico pointed out, as an officer, she should have been wearing a uniform all along, Picard just indulged her...
You said that about Malcolm last time this came up but I still don't get it. It's the Federation, a utopian society of such astounding liberalness they let a child fly the Federation flagship on a regular basis and counsellors show up in catsuits to work. 'Don't ask, don't tell' has been repealed, even in the infamously conservative US military, already and we're only in the 21st century. I can't think of a single reason why Sulu or Malcolm would need to pretend to be straight any more than Picard would need to pretend not to be bald or Uhura would to pretend to not be black.
False. Simon Tarses had to pretend that his grandfather was Vulcan not Romulan...
As I said last time, recall the episode where Hoshi is trying to track down Malcolm's favorite food, and his parents can't tell her anything beyond he used to eat whatever he was given... Malcolm's entire nature is of 'doing his job and not making waves' and doing what he considers 'proper conduct for an officer'... If he felt it was expected of him to make nice with the ladies while in company, that's what he would do. Also, recall Travis' story about encountering some 'hot alien ladies' (I forget which species) and he was encouraged to do workouts and the like, rather than engaging in sexual behaviour. That suggests that Earth's (or at least his family's) approach to sexuality wasn't quite as liberal as you're trying to make out)
There's no need for hyperbole... Wesley was in his teens, so certainly not 'a child'. Considering Betazoid customs, I suspect the reason Troi didn't turn up for duty naked, is that it would be 'improperly dressed' and could potentially create a distraction to other crew. As Captain Jellico pointed out, as an officer, she should have been wearing a uniform all along, Picard just indulged her...
The Federation was in a cold war with the Romulans, they were aliens and the enemy not a member of the Federation.
Malcolm seems to be putting on a good act in the very first episode then, he's clearly more than acting in his interest in those butterfly eating women and spends what he thinks are his last moments in 'Shuttlepod One' writing letters to ex-girlfriends. A bit of dedication to the charade there. He's sat drinking whiskey with what counts as his best friend and has resigned himself to a realistic death yet still takes the time to dictate dozens of letters to women and talk about the (female) science officer's bum.
There's nothing to sudgest Malcolm is anything other than ridiculously repressed and uptight with an upper lip so stiff you could balance a shuttlepod on it.
What hyperbole? Wesley is a child, he's about 14-15. I don't know what the age limit for Starfleet Academy is but I'm guessing it's 16, so the kid's not old enough to join that to start with nor old enough to drive yet is allowed to fly the flagship.
There's always the possibility that the Earth of ENT was somehow similar to our own and Malcolm's parents were either homophobes or that he suspected they might be but by TOS it certainly wasn't (unless you were a woman obviously, flighty and fragile creatures that they were) and there's no chance Sulu was closeted.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Was he? Spock, Kirk, Scotty, and Bones are all the same age as each other (or slightly older in the case of the last two) and Checkov is certainly a different character to the prime version. But is there any actual figures on the ages of Sulu and Uhura?
I'll go point-by-point.
Spock is already a full commander when the main plot of the '09 movie gets going, which ought to mean he's actually the oldest of any of them. Ditto Lieutenant Commander Scott.
Kirk and McCoy were considerably older than usual when they matriculated. Kirk is 25 in the main part of the movie, McCoy appears to be late twenties/early thirties.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, Uhura is likely 21 or 22 since she's a fourth-year cadet. Remember that Kirk and McCoy are third-years when Nero attacks Vulcan, and Uhura was already in the Academy when Kirk tried and failed to pick her up in the bar.
We know for a fact that Ensign Chekov is 17, which doesn't frankly make a lick of sense but neither does giving command of a heavy cruiser to a third-year cadet.
Sulu ... is iffy. I don't remember his rank in the '09 movie offhand but if he's a lieutenant he ought to be Kirk's age... but then we know what the KT!Starfleet thinks of age requirements for rank.
Also worth noting, the novelization of TVH had Sulu born in 2237, which ought to mean Kelvin!Sulu is actually older than Prime!Sulu.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
False. Simon Tarses had to pretend that his grandfather was Vulcan not Romulan...
Well, he did that, but it's not 100% clear what the alternative actually would have been. I suspect it was a family secret or something that the grandfather was Romulan and he didn't want to mess that up. the only thing he apparently did wrong was LYING...
The point of that sub plot was that Sadie was digging for dirty secrets so hard that she was making a big deal out of things that weren't important. She basically accused Tarses of being an enemy spy just because he was a descendent of a Romulan.
I'd say the decision-makers/admins/whoever of this forum probably have some homophobic tendencies.
Excuse me? You must be new here. They fired a moderator last year for complaining about the l*sbian Klingons in the mission "House Pegh" (in the form of "I don't like it because I wasn't ready to explain the concept to my kids").
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Was he? Spock, Kirk, Scotty, and Bones are all the same age as each other (or slightly older in the case of the last two) and Checkov is certainly a different character to the prime version. But is there any actual figures on the ages of Sulu and Uhura?
I'll go point-by-point.
Spock is already a full commander when the main plot of the '09 movie gets going, which ought to mean he's actually the oldest of any of them. Ditto Lieutenant Commander Scott.
Kirk and McCoy were considerably older than usual when they matriculated. Kirk is 25 in the main part of the movie, McCoy appears to be late twenties/early thirties.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary, Uhura is likely 21 or 22 since she's a fourth-year cadet. Remember that Kirk and McCoy are third-years when Nero attacks Vulcan, and Uhura was already in the Academy when Kirk tried and failed to pick her up in the bar.
We know for a fact that Ensign Chekov is 17, which doesn't frankly make a lick of sense but neither does giving command of a heavy cruiser to a third-year cadet.
Sulu ... is iffy. I don't remember his rank in the '09 movie offhand but if he's a lieutenant he ought to be Kirk's age... but then we know what the KT!Starfleet thinks of age requirements for rank.
Also worth noting, the novelization of TVH had Sulu born in 2237, which ought to mean Kelvin!Sulu is actually older than Prime!Sulu.
Most of that is based on how real ranks work, not Starfleet ranks. Starfleet ranks are given out like sweeties for good behaviour or withheld for close to a decade for no reason whatsoever. Starfleet ranks allow commodores to promote captians to a higher rank than themselves and for cadets to out rank ensigns and for petty officers to simultaneously be a lieutenant and not an officer. For acting lieutenants to be promoted to captain in a day and for admirals to be addressed as commanders .
According to 'Beyond' Spock was born in 2230, so he's three years older than Kirk (2233). Scotty was born in 2222 according to relics so he's quite a bit older than any of them but still outranked by Spock (until V that is) and McCoy in 2227. None of that helps establish Sulu's age but the actor is older than Kirk's and Spock's but younger than Scotty's and McCoy's. Also not helpful though as actors are not their characters.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'd say the decision-makers/admins/whoever of this forum probably have some homophobic tendencies.
Excuse me? You must be new here. They fired a moderator last year for complaining about the l*sbian Klingons in the mission "House Pegh" (in the form of "I don't like it because I wasn't ready to explain the concept to my kids").
I'd assume they meant in response to the forum censoring g.ay. Something that could perhaps be raised with Trendy? The forum also used to block 'hell' including official posts about 'Year of Hell' until that was pointed out to the PTB.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
Oi... and it's just as useless... irrelevant... and wasteful...
did I miss anything?
was referring to this thread rather than the subject. There's probably an episode with the subject as mentioned by Azrael.
still, who really cares? Their lives are their own (or their creator's choices) and nothing else about it matters. Not like anyone here is going to jump up in the morning and be affected one way or the other by any of this - so... *shrug*
Back on-topic, it's exactly these kind of incidents which make me wish it was far easier to sue for slander. People can express whatever opinions they like, but if you're actually going to accuse someone of bigotry, you'd better damn well be ready to back it up!
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Now if you jump back to the original point of this thread, you'll find that it dealt with the author of Harry Potter having an issue with someone else trying to change a character from the way they designed that character to be (nothing more and nothing less). This is no different than someone taking the original Enterprise and changing it's design without permission. It falls into the same category. FANS can do whatever they like - IF the author/creator/owner gives them WRITTEN permission to do so. If the author withholds that permission, then any person/entity attempting to modify a character in any fashion/form/or method is liable for legal liability and damages - in point, they can be arrested and sued for it globally (See: Mickey Mouse). There's more to this, but it's business and creator/artist/author ethics, not to mention legal TRIBBLE, so someone else can explain it to the thick skulls. I can't be bothered with it.
One of the acronym groups has a branch that does nothing but persue this type of stuff.
I agree, it was executed as I would expect it and is in line with Cryptic's inclusion of a homosexual Klingon couple. I however find "making" Sulu homosexual a problematic decision. They claimed it was to honour Takei, who however is still alive and well and didn't want this kind of "honour" for good reasons as it comes off as very uncreative and unflexible - make the character homosexual because his actor was. It also get's a strong "token" flavour. It would have been, in my opinion, "better" to show any of the other characters to have settled with a same sex partner, from Kirk to Uhura.
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Was he? Spock, Kirk, Scotty, and Bones are all the same age as each other (or slightly older in the case of the last two) and Checkov is certainly a different character to the prime version. But is there any actual figures on the ages of Sulu and Uhura?
Also, as pointed out on a further page, being married to a man doesn't necessarily make Sulu g.ay, he could be bi. Though I still don't see how staring at a Klingon's ar.se and calling Uhura 'fair' are indications of being straight. It's still possible for g.ay people to find people aesthetically appealing even if they don't find them sexually appealing.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Is that a g.ay trait? Ha, I knew it!
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Nichelle Nichols was only married twice. First to Foster Johnson (married and divorced in 1951) and second to Duke Mondy (1967-1972).
Well it's a trait of most people it was just something specifically relevant to Sulu's comments to Uhura and the Klingon women.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Say whaaaaaaat??
Actually, I don't think she had an issue with the fan trying to change it, I think they asked if Sirius was TRIBBLE, she said that he wasn't, and then the Snowflakes got butt-hurt and went postal, as is their wont to do...
You have very nice hooves, by the way.
Mustrum "I don't complinent real people, that would mean talking to an attractive women or being mistaken for TRIBBLE" Ridcully
On the flip-side of that, perhaps Sulu was just pretending to perv on the Klingon, because he didn't want anyone(Chekov) to know he was g.ay (don't ask, don't tell and the like...) An example of that, is Malcolm Reed... Malcolm was definitely seen with women, and once even said that he thought T'Pol had 'a nice bum' (or did he say 'TRIBBLE'?) But, Dominic Keating has said that he always played Malcolm as g.ay... Give Malcolm's other examples of 'doing things so as to not cause waves', I blend the on-screen canon and off-screen commentary that Malcolm was g.ay, but in the closet...
Oh my
Angry "Definitely, seriously and absolutely has no kinky thing for hooves, I swear" Targ
That would be a bad example however, as r.a.pe for dominance has little to do with sexuality. The MU is really a dark place when we first see it.
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George did NOT ask anyone to do anything about Sulu. He was told about KT Sulu's orientation, and said, in essence, "Well, I don't think that's really what Gene had in mind, and it's not necessary to make me feel any better, but I think John Cho can play this well enough."
Folks keep carrying on as if George were angry about this change, and demanded that it be reverted, only to be ignored, and that's about as far from the truth as the claim that he ever married Nichelle (or any other woman, for that matter).
I dunno about that one, the Mirror Universe seems to work differently to other alternate timelines (the KT, Yesterday's Enterprise etc.) and the sexualaties of Kira, Leeta, and Ezri are changed in the DS9 MU ( well changed as far as we know anyway). But as Angrytarg points out, sex in the MU seems to be about power more than anything else, or at least in the ENT and TOS MU.
That's not an argument for anything.
You said that about Malcolm last time this came up but I still don't get it. It's the Federation, a utopian society of such astounding liberalness they let a child fly the Federation flagship on a regular basis and counsellors show up in catsuits to work.
'Don't ask, don't tell' has been repealed, even in the infamously conservative US military, already and we're only in the 21st century. I can't think of a single reason why Sulu or Malcolm would need to pretend to be straight any more than Picard would need to pretend not to be bald or Uhura would to pretend to not be black.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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That's true, their sexualities were flipped, but as you say, the MU also works differently than other alternates...
It's just a statement of fact... Statistically speaking, someone is more likely to encounter a hetero rather than a homo, and a right-hander than a left-hander...
False. Simon Tarses had to pretend that his grandfather was Vulcan not Romulan...
As I said last time, recall the episode where Hoshi is trying to track down Malcolm's favorite food, and his parents can't tell her anything beyond he used to eat whatever he was given... Malcolm's entire nature is of 'doing his job and not making waves' and doing what he considers 'proper conduct for an officer'... If he felt it was expected of him to make nice with the ladies while in company, that's what he would do. Also, recall Travis' story about encountering some 'hot alien ladies' (I forget which species) and he was encouraged to do workouts and the like, rather than engaging in sexual behaviour. That suggests that Earth's (or at least his family's) approach to sexuality wasn't quite as liberal as you're trying to make out)
There's no need for hyperbole... Wesley was in his teens, so certainly not 'a child'. Considering Betazoid customs, I suspect the reason Troi didn't turn up for duty naked, is that it would be 'improperly dressed' and could potentially create a distraction to other crew. As Captain Jellico pointed out, as an officer, she should have been wearing a uniform all along, Picard just indulged her...
The Federation was in a cold war with the Romulans, they were aliens and the enemy not a member of the Federation.
Malcolm seems to be putting on a good act in the very first episode then, he's clearly more than acting in his interest in those butterfly eating women and spends what he thinks are his last moments in 'Shuttlepod One' writing letters to ex-girlfriends. A bit of dedication to the charade there. He's sat drinking whiskey with what counts as his best friend and has resigned himself to a realistic death yet still takes the time to dictate dozens of letters to women and talk about the (female) science officer's bum.
There's nothing to sudgest Malcolm is anything other than ridiculously repressed and uptight with an upper lip so stiff you could balance a shuttlepod on it.
What hyperbole? Wesley is a child, he's about 14-15. I don't know what the age limit for Starfleet Academy is but I'm guessing it's 16, so the kid's not old enough to join that to start with nor old enough to drive yet is allowed to fly the flagship.
There's always the possibility that the Earth of ENT was somehow similar to our own and Malcolm's parents were either homophobes or that he suspected they might be but by TOS it certainly wasn't (unless you were a woman obviously, flighty and fragile creatures that they were) and there's no chance Sulu was closeted.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Also worth noting, the novelization of TVH had Sulu born in 2237, which ought to mean Kelvin!Sulu is actually older than Prime!Sulu.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The point of that sub plot was that Sadie was digging for dirty secrets so hard that she was making a big deal out of things that weren't important. She basically accused Tarses of being an enemy spy just because he was a descendent of a Romulan.
My character Tsin'xing
Excuse me? You must be new here. They fired a moderator last year for complaining about the l*sbian Klingons in the mission "House Pegh" (in the form of "I don't like it because I wasn't ready to explain the concept to my kids").
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Most of that is based on how real ranks work, not Starfleet ranks. Starfleet ranks are given out like sweeties for good behaviour or withheld for close to a decade for no reason whatsoever. Starfleet ranks allow commodores to promote captians to a higher rank than themselves and for cadets to out rank ensigns and for petty officers to simultaneously be a lieutenant and not an officer. For acting lieutenants to be promoted to captain in a day and for admirals to be addressed as commanders
According to 'Beyond' Spock was born in 2230, so he's three years older than Kirk (2233). Scotty was born in 2222 according to relics so he's quite a bit older than any of them but still outranked by Spock (until V that is) and McCoy in 2227. None of that helps establish Sulu's age but the actor is older than Kirk's and Spock's but younger than Scotty's and McCoy's. Also not helpful though as actors are not their characters.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I'd assume they meant in response to the forum censoring g.ay. Something that could perhaps be raised with Trendy? The forum also used to block 'hell' including official posts about 'Year of Hell' until that was pointed out to the PTB.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!