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"We now have an official statement from Cryptic..."

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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    huskerklg wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Other ships I didn't get. Like the T6 Avenger, or the T6 Defiant, that got tossed other people's way.

    Were those others explained how you could have a chance to get them? Apples to Oranges comparison.

    Those were also available in the C-Store, and I believe they came in an e-mail that was meant to encourage a player to return from a hiatus.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    eaY7Xxu.png
  • virtvikkivirtvikki Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    I keep looking towards my e-mail but no sign of anything. I did see a new mailing about STO today though. Looking at the description on the image a few posts up of the ship gives me some hope, perhaps a version of it could be added to the lobi store? I sure would love a T-6 Ferengi ship with that classic horseshoe crab shape! I sure would love some way of getting one of these ships for my Ferengi captains!
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    hmm maybe I deleted that mail

    Oh yeah, I think I did too. Might have ended up in the Spam folder!
    Cryptic if you could be so kind as to resend the email to me. o:)
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    I did not get the ship. Looks like a really nice one, too. Since I have no idea what people did to get it, I have no chance at getting it.

    I can be angry about this. Or, I can act like a grownup is supposed to act and move on. There are lots of things in this game I will never get which other people have gotten.

    So frakkin' what.

    Pretty sure the folks at PWI/Cryptic are not sitting around brainstorming ways to personally make me miserable. My life is not in complete ruins because I did not get a free T6 ship and somebody else did. I do not feel all hollowed out and empty because of something I did not know about and do not meet the qualifications for. I am also too old and too short to play center for the Cleveland Cavaliers. I am not going to start a thread here campaigning for this job and wailing about how unfair everything is.

    Instead, I am happy for the people who did get one of these. I sincerely hope they enjoy the ship. I find it a really nice gesture PWI/Cryptic decided to give away for free a piece of merchandise they normally charge for. Maybe I'll qualify the next go round.

    Because this is how a grownup is supposed to act.
    Post edited by thunderfoot#5163 on
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    Maybe I'll qualify the next go round.
    Because this is how a grownup is supposed to act.

    Don't worry, you won't qualify. But at least Cryptic knows you won't whine about it then too! :D
    Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Don't worry, you won't qualify. But at least Cryptic knows you won't whine about it then too! :D
    Too many professional grade whiners around here already. As long as I don't give up my amateur status, I have a shot at Olympic Gold someday! lol

    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • sarreoussarreous Member Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Post removed ~Askray
    Post edited by askray on
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    I did not get the ship. Looks like a really nice one, too. Since I have no idea what people did to get it, I have no chance at getting it.

    I can be angry about this. Or, I can act like a grownup is supposed to act and move on. There are lots of things in this game I will never get which other people have gotten.

    So frakkin' what.

    Pretty sure the folks a PWI/Cryptic are not sitting around brainstorming ways to personally make me miserable. My life is not in complete ruins because I did not get a free T6 ship and somebody else did. I do not feel all hollowed out and empty because of something I did not know about and do not meet the qualifications for. I am also too old and too short to play center for the Cleveland Cavaliers. I am not going to start a thread here campaigning for this job and wailing about how unfair everything is.

    Instead, I am happy for the people who did get one of these. I sincerely hope they enjoy the ship. I find it a really nice gesture PWI/Cryptic decided to give away for free a piece of merchandise they normally charge for. Maybe I'll qualify the next go round.

    Because this is how a grownup is supposed to act.


    ^^ One of the more mature posts on the matter I've seen in days!

    I *did* get the ship, but never received any of the other free promo ships they sent out. And that never evoked but a fleeting moment of envy, for all of like 5 minutes.

    I understand -- or rather, understood -- people were a bit annoyed not getting one. But the way I see people take it extremely personal, the last few days, like Cryptic went out of their way to give them the middle finger, sorry, I cannot relate to that.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • This content has been removed.
  • ufpterrellufpterrell Member Posts: 736 Arc User
    I'm surprised the level of rage this promotion has provoked. Poor Trendy getting all that flack on Twitter for a ship (which is a bit lack luster in it's BOFF seating I think). I remember the debacle with the Galaxy (that was a little more justified - so close to release) but I got a free Valliant escort ages ago. I've never used it but it's there all the same.
    Terrell.png

    Looking for a dedicated Star Trek community? Visit www.ufplanets.com for details.
  • valenn1valenn1 Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I did not get the ship. Looks like a really nice one, too. Since I have no idea what people did to get it, I have no chance at getting it.

    I can be angry about this. Or, I can act like a grownup is supposed to act and move on. There are lots of things in this game I will never get which other people have gotten.

    So frakkin' what.

    Pretty sure the folks a PWI/Cryptic are not sitting around brainstorming ways to personally make me miserable. My life is not in complete ruins because I did not get a free T6 ship and somebody else did. I do not feel all hollowed out and empty because of something I did not know about and do not meet the qualifications for. I am also too old and too short to play center for the Cleveland Cavaliers. I am not going to start a thread here campaigning for this job and wailing about how unfair everything is.

    Instead, I am happy for the people who did get one of these. I sincerely hope they enjoy the ship. I find it a really nice gesture PWI/Cryptic decided to give away for free a piece of merchandise they normally charge for. Maybe I'll qualify the next go round.

    Because this is how a grownup is supposed to act.
    ...
    I *did* get the ship, but never received any of the other free promo ships they sent out. And that never evoked but a fleeting moment of envy, for all of like 5 minutes.
    ...

    And again, there is a slight difference beween a ship that one can buy within 2-3 clicks or a ship that is otherwise unobtaineable.
    Totally did not care for the Valiant or Andromeda Giveawy (which i did not get too) because:
    a) i already had them
    b) if it brings back old customers -> fine)
    The Nagus is another Story.
    Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
    unfortunately:

    NOT LOYAL ENOUGH!!!
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    valenn1 wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I did not get the ship. Looks like a really nice one, too. Since I have no idea what people did to get it, I have no chance at getting it.

    I can be angry about this. Or, I can act like a grownup is supposed to act and move on. There are lots of things in this game I will never get which other people have gotten.

    So frakkin' what.

    Pretty sure the folks a PWI/Cryptic are not sitting around brainstorming ways to personally make me miserable. My life is not in complete ruins because I did not get a free T6 ship and somebody else did. I do not feel all hollowed out and empty because of something I did not know about and do not meet the qualifications for. I am also too old and too short to play center for the Cleveland Cavaliers. I am not going to start a thread here campaigning for this job and wailing about how unfair everything is.

    Instead, I am happy for the people who did get one of these. I sincerely hope they enjoy the ship. I find it a really nice gesture PWI/Cryptic decided to give away for free a piece of merchandise they normally charge for. Maybe I'll qualify the next go round.

    Because this is how a grownup is supposed to act.
    ...
    I *did* get the ship, but never received any of the other free promo ships they sent out. And that never evoked but a fleeting moment of envy, for all of like 5 minutes.
    ...

    And again, there is a slight difference beween a ship that one can buy within 2-3 clicks or a ship that is otherwise unobtaineable.
    Totally did not care for the Valiant or Andromeda Giveawy (which i did not get too) because:
    a) i already had them
    b) if it brings back old customers -> fine)
    The Nagus is another Story.


    Way I understood things, ppl aren't upset so much over the ship, as they are over the fact they were allegedly not considered 'loyal customers' too.

    The ship itself is a T6 D'Kora, which is sweet; but, at the end of the day, it's just another ship. Would I miss it if I hadn't gotten one? Well, I disn't miss it the day before I got it, so probably not.

    Would be nice, though, if they did at least make it available for purchase to others. But original D'Kora was a lockbox ship; so maybe in the next Ferengi lockbox promo?
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • captainkenny1captainkenny1 Member Posts: 326 Arc User
    Look , am I dissapointed that I don't have that golden ship? Yes. Why ? I collect everything ferengi in the game.
    Now, if this ship will be available in the near future in the form of a promo box ship, or any other way, that is cool for me too, i'll be happy to throw some money at it just to complete My ferengi collection stuff. Please cryptic ,tell us the ship will be available in the near future, with gold plates skin...please..
  • This content has been removed.
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    Lol Cryptic, well dane... lol..
    __________________________________________________

    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    I'm not feeling insulted at all. Then again, I don't go around looking for reasons to feel insulted and I try not to wear my heart on the outside. But then again, a lot of people on the InterWebs are far too well versed in sensitivity training. To the point where it cripples both their intellect and their common sense.
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • masterfiretrollmasterfiretroll Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Way I understood things, ppl aren't upset so much over the ship, as they are over the fact they were allegedly not considered 'loyal customers' too.

    Exactly this.

    They insulted the players by saying some were "more loyal" without offering an explanation.

    What legal issues come up when running a contest or giveaway or promotion?

    This is a meaty subject. I'll start by giving my usual advice not to try this at home. A good lawyer who handles this kind of work regularly can put everything together in just a couple hours, saving you time and headaches, as well as keeping your company out of trouble with the authorities. Having said that, it's widely disregarded in practice by little guys who don't know better -- but you'll notice anytime you see a major company involved in one of these, it takes compliance seriously, for good reason.

    In the US, the legal requirements relating to promotional contests and sweepstakes are driven by one goal: To avoid operating an illegal lottery. Gambling is heavily regulated on a state-by-state basis, meaning that if you want to run this kind of promotion, you either must comply with all 50 states' laws or specify that residents of Florida (for example) are not eligible to enter. An illegal lottery includes these elements:
    1.Payment of consideration (such as an entry fee)
    2.Winner chosen by random chance
    3.Prize awarded

    The two types of promotions commonly used by marketers are contests and sweepstakes. A contest requires skill of some kind and judging is involved to choose the winner. You can charge an entry fee for a contest (so you have #1 and #3). A sweepstakes is a drawing for prizes by random chance alone (#2 and #3 above). It's critical that you pick one or the other and don't mix the two. Never charge an entry fee, or require any other form of consideration, for a sweepstakes! That would make it an illegal lottery. Hence "no purchase necessary" in the fine print of just about every sweepstakes you've heard of.

    The rule is the opposite for contests. "Consideration" can include anything that requires significant effort; it doesn't necessarily mean the payment of money. So in a contest (think American Idol), you can require participants to invest time and effort in creating an entry, pay an entry fee, or both, provided that entries are judged on the merits, with no random chance involved. Online contests often start with a mechanism for users to vote for their favorite entries, narrowing down the field to a few finalists, and then a panel of judges picks the winner. (You could do it the other way around but it requires a lot more work.)

    Every contest or sweepstakes needs Official Rules. They are what keep you out of trouble. They all look similar but are not boilerplate and need to be carefully tailored to the specifics of your promotion. This isn't rocket science, but it is important.

    The Official Rules need to be readily accessible to anyone who wants to enter.

    Start by determining eligibility. When in doubt, limit it to US residents over 18 (21 if alcohol or gambling is involved). Minors have separate issues involving parental consent. "Void where prohibited" is good CYA language since it's tough staying on top of 50 states' laws.


    Is the prize worth more than $5,000? If so, you'll need to register the sweepstakes in New York, Florida and Rhode Island (or prohibit their residents from entering). NY and FL also require that a bond be posted equal to the total value of the offered prizes.
    Official Rules must cover the following at a minimum: No purchase necessary; start and end dates; eligibility requirements (age, residency, any exclusions); method to enter (including a “no purchase” method); limitations on the number of entries by a signal person or household; odds of winning; description and approximate retail value (ARV) of prize; how the winner will be selected and notified; restrictions on receiving the prize; and sponsor’s name and address.
    That "restrictions on receiving the prize" thing is important. If you're looking to get any PR or media coverage from the promotion, make sure to state in the Official Rules that the winner will be required to sign a release and affidavit of eligibility. Those documents will allow you to use the winner's name and likeness, etc.
    You'll need to report the prize to the IRS as income to the winner on Form 1099-MISC, so make sure your accounting folks are in the loop.


    not cool Cryptic,
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,875 Arc User
    I can't believe anyone who has played this game more than a minute would expect anything more than yet another bumbling mess like this.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • masterfiretrollmasterfiretroll Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    someone just posted this:
    And guess what? It's pretty "cryptic"...

    Update: A representative for PWE issued the following statement to Massively OP in regard to these ships: “The gold-plated T6 Ferengi ship was sent out to a select group of players as part of an e-mail specific promotion. Unfortunately we aren’t able to reveal any additional information, as it goes against our policy to protect the privacy of our community members.”

    http://massivelyop.com/2016/07/20/star-trek-online-confuses-community-with-ship-giveaway/

    What makes that BS though is that they don't have to reveal anyone's personal or private info just to tell people what the parameters were. They don't have to name any names. It's just the normal BS PR spin response.

    Oh and guess what? They DON'T care about people's privacy when the announce their @handle whenever someone wins a lockbox ship! So they can't even keep their own logic straight.

    there is one simple reason Cryptic is not telling us the "requirements" to get one of these ships: because there are none. More specifically, yes they are giving them to some big spenders, that much is clear. But they are ALSO giving them to some of their "favorite" people. The really big podcasters and defenders of the game, even though some of those people admit they haven't spent lavish amounts of money. Cryptic doesn't want to admit they are handing out ships to people on an unfair basis, so they give us a BS line about privacy

    https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/4ttw2j/we_now_have_an_official_statement_from_cryptic/

    so at least they said something!


    from what looks like to me STO is a An illegal lottery

    NO Official Rules posted on this promotion /contest or giveaway!
    NO Posting Determining Eligibility

    Cryptic needs to give everyone the ship that Spent any amount money in last year..
    Not just the few or their "favorite" people..

  • phinabella1phinabella1 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    nixboox wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Way I understood things, ppl aren't upset so much over the ship, as they are over the fact they were allegedly not considered 'loyal customers' too.

    Exactly this.

    They insulted the players by saying some were "more loyal" without offering an explanation.

    What legal issues come up when running a contest or giveaway or promotion?

    This is a meaty subject. I'll start by giving my usual advice not to try this at home. A good lawyer who handles this kind of work regularly can put everything together in just a couple hours, saving you time and headaches, as well as keeping your company out of trouble with the authorities. Having said that, it's widely disregarded in practice by little guys who don't know better -- but you'll notice anytime you see a major company involved in one of these, it takes compliance seriously, for good reason.

    In the US, the legal requirements relating to promotional contests and sweepstakes are driven by one goal: To avoid operating an illegal lottery. Gambling is heavily regulated on a state-by-state basis, meaning that if you want to run this kind of promotion, you either must comply with all 50 states' laws or specify that residents of Florida (for example) are not eligible to enter. An illegal lottery includes these elements:
    1.Payment of consideration (such as an entry fee)
    2.Winner chosen by random chance
    3.Prize awarded

    The two types of promotions commonly used by marketers are contests and sweepstakes. A contest requires skill of some kind and judging is involved to choose the winner. You can charge an entry fee for a contest (so you have #1 and #3). A sweepstakes is a drawing for prizes by random chance alone (#2 and #3 above). It's critical that you pick one or the other and don't mix the two. Never charge an entry fee, or require any other form of consideration, for a sweepstakes! That would make it an illegal lottery. Hence "no purchase necessary" in the fine print of just about every sweepstakes you've heard of.

    The rule is the opposite for contests. "Consideration" can include anything that requires significant effort; it doesn't necessarily mean the payment of money. So in a contest (think American Idol), you can require participants to invest time and effort in creating an entry, pay an entry fee, or both, provided that entries are judged on the merits, with no random chance involved. Online contests often start with a mechanism for users to vote for their favorite entries, narrowing down the field to a few finalists, and then a panel of judges picks the winner. (You could do it the other way around but it requires a lot more work.)

    Every contest or sweepstakes needs Official Rules. They are what keep you out of trouble. They all look similar but are not boilerplate and need to be carefully tailored to the specifics of your promotion. This isn't rocket science, but it is important.

    The Official Rules need to be readily accessible to anyone who wants to enter.

    Start by determining eligibility. When in doubt, limit it to US residents over 18 (21 if alcohol or gambling is involved). Minors have separate issues involving parental consent. "Void where prohibited" is good CYA language since it's tough staying on top of 50 states' laws.


    Is the prize worth more than $5,000? If so, you'll need to register the sweepstakes in New York, Florida and Rhode Island (or prohibit their residents from entering). NY and FL also require that a bond be posted equal to the total value of the offered prizes.
    Official Rules must cover the following at a minimum: No purchase necessary; start and end dates; eligibility requirements (age, residency, any exclusions); method to enter (including a “no purchase” method); limitations on the number of entries by a signal person or household; odds of winning; description and approximate retail value (ARV) of prize; how the winner will be selected and notified; restrictions on receiving the prize; and sponsor’s name and address.
    That "restrictions on receiving the prize" thing is important. If you're looking to get any PR or media coverage from the promotion, make sure to state in the Official Rules that the winner will be required to sign a release and affidavit of eligibility. Those documents will allow you to use the winner's name and likeness, etc.
    You'll need to report the prize to the IRS as income to the winner on Form 1099-MISC, so make sure your accounting folks are in the loop.


    not cool Cryptic,

    THANK YOU! I was trying to say that the day before, but words never work for me when they're needed.
  • valenn1valenn1 Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    nixboox wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Way I understood things, ppl aren't upset so much over the ship, as they are over the fact they were allegedly not considered 'loyal customers' too.

    Exactly this.

    They insulted the players by saying some were "more loyal" without offering an explanation.

    What legal issues come up when running a contest or giveaway or promotion?

    This is a meaty subject. I'll start by giving my usual advice not to try this at home. A good lawyer who handles this kind of work regularly can put everything together in just a couple hours, saving you time and headaches, as well as keeping your company out of trouble with the authorities. Having said that, it's widely disregarded in practice by little guys who don't know better -- but you'll notice anytime you see a major company involved in one of these, it takes compliance seriously, for good reason.

    In the US, the legal requirements relating to promotional contests and sweepstakes are driven by one goal: To avoid operating an illegal lottery. Gambling is heavily regulated on a state-by-state basis, meaning that if you want to run this kind of promotion, you either must comply with all 50 states' laws or specify that residents of Florida (for example) are not eligible to enter. An illegal lottery includes these elements:
    1.Payment of consideration (such as an entry fee)
    2.Winner chosen by random chance
    3.Prize awarded

    The two types of promotions commonly used by marketers are contests and sweepstakes. A contest requires skill of some kind and judging is involved to choose the winner. You can charge an entry fee for a contest (so you have #1 and #3). A sweepstakes is a drawing for prizes by random chance alone (#2 and #3 above). It's critical that you pick one or the other and don't mix the two. Never charge an entry fee, or require any other form of consideration, for a sweepstakes! That would make it an illegal lottery. Hence "no purchase necessary" in the fine print of just about every sweepstakes you've heard of.

    The rule is the opposite for contests. "Consideration" can include anything that requires significant effort; it doesn't necessarily mean the payment of money. So in a contest (think American Idol), you can require participants to invest time and effort in creating an entry, pay an entry fee, or both, provided that entries are judged on the merits, with no random chance involved. Online contests often start with a mechanism for users to vote for their favorite entries, narrowing down the field to a few finalists, and then a panel of judges picks the winner. (You could do it the other way around but it requires a lot more work.)

    Every contest or sweepstakes needs Official Rules. They are what keep you out of trouble. They all look similar but are not boilerplate and need to be carefully tailored to the specifics of your promotion. This isn't rocket science, but it is important.

    The Official Rules need to be readily accessible to anyone who wants to enter.

    Start by determining eligibility. When in doubt, limit it to US residents over 18 (21 if alcohol or gambling is involved). Minors have separate issues involving parental consent. "Void where prohibited" is good CYA language since it's tough staying on top of 50 states' laws.


    Is the prize worth more than $5,000? If so, you'll need to register the sweepstakes in New York, Florida and Rhode Island (or prohibit their residents from entering). NY and FL also require that a bond be posted equal to the total value of the offered prizes.
    Official Rules must cover the following at a minimum: No purchase necessary; start and end dates; eligibility requirements (age, residency, any exclusions); method to enter (including a “no purchase” method); limitations on the number of entries by a signal person or household; odds of winning; description and approximate retail value (ARV) of prize; how the winner will be selected and notified; restrictions on receiving the prize; and sponsor’s name and address.
    That "restrictions on receiving the prize" thing is important. If you're looking to get any PR or media coverage from the promotion, make sure to state in the Official Rules that the winner will be required to sign a release and affidavit of eligibility. Those documents will allow you to use the winner's name and likeness, etc.
    You'll need to report the prize to the IRS as income to the winner on Form 1099-MISC, so make sure your accounting folks are in the loop.


    not cool Cryptic,

    That's interesting, that would explain the long delay between "I will look into it" and "we won't reveal anything" from PWI, someone in that mess must have had the brilliant idea to call the legal department^^.

    EDIT: I bet the Reaction was "You did WHAT???" *turns to the neighbouring Desk* "We need a damage Control Team on Deck Cryptic! Urgent!"
    Post edited by valenn1 on
    Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
    unfortunately:

    NOT LOYAL ENOUGH!!!
  • sunfranckssunfrancks Member Posts: 3,925 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Interesting, as I didn't think this "giveaway" would come under a lottery...


    Fed: Eng Lib Borg (Five) Tac Andorian (Shen) Sci Alien/Klingon (Maelrock) KDF:Tac Romulan KDF (Sasha) Tac Klingon (K'dopis)
    Founder, member and former leader to Pride Of The Federation Fleet.
    What I feel after I hear about every decision made since Andre "Mobile Games Generalisimo" Emerson arrived...
    3oz8xC9gn8Fh4DK9Q4.gif





  • masterfiretrollmasterfiretroll Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    sunfrancks wrote: »
    Interesting, as I didn't think this "giveaway" would come under a lottery...

    valenn1 wrote: »
    nixboox wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Way I understood things, ppl aren't upset so much over the ship, as they are over the fact they were allegedly not considered 'loyal customers' too.

    Exactly this.

    They insulted the players by saying some were "more loyal" without offering an explanation.

    What legal issues come up when running a contest or giveaway or promotion?

    This is a meaty subject. I'll start by giving my usual advice not to try this at home. A good lawyer who handles this kind of work regularly can put everything together in just a couple hours, saving you time and headaches, as well as keeping your company out of trouble with the authorities. Having said that, it's widely disregarded in practice by little guys who don't know better -- but you'll notice anytime you see a major company involved in one of these, it takes compliance seriously, for good reason.

    In the US, the legal requirements relating to promotional contests and sweepstakes are driven by one goal: To avoid operating an illegal lottery. Gambling is heavily regulated on a state-by-state basis, meaning that if you want to run this kind of promotion, you either must comply with all 50 states' laws or specify that residents of Florida (for example) are not eligible to enter. An illegal lottery includes these elements:
    1.Payment of consideration (such as an entry fee)
    2.Winner chosen by random chance
    3.Prize awarded

    The two types of promotions commonly used by marketers are contests and sweepstakes. A contest requires skill of some kind and judging is involved to choose the winner. You can charge an entry fee for a contest (so you have #1 and #3). A sweepstakes is a drawing for prizes by random chance alone (#2 and #3 above). It's critical that you pick one or the other and don't mix the two. Never charge an entry fee, or require any other form of consideration, for a sweepstakes! That would make it an illegal lottery. Hence "no purchase necessary" in the fine print of just about every sweepstakes you've heard of.

    The rule is the opposite for contests. "Consideration" can include anything that requires significant effort; it doesn't necessarily mean the payment of money. So in a contest (think American Idol), you can require participants to invest time and effort in creating an entry, pay an entry fee, or both, provided that entries are judged on the merits, with no random chance involved. Online contests often start with a mechanism for users to vote for their favorite entries, narrowing down the field to a few finalists, and then a panel of judges picks the winner. (You could do it the other way around but it requires a lot more work.)

    Every contest or sweepstakes needs Official Rules. They are what keep you out of trouble. They all look similar but are not boilerplate and need to be carefully tailored to the specifics of your promotion. This isn't rocket science, but it is important.

    The Official Rules need to be readily accessible to anyone who wants to enter.

    Start by determining eligibility. When in doubt, limit it to US residents over 18 (21 if alcohol or gambling is involved). Minors have separate issues involving parental consent. "Void where prohibited" is good CYA language since it's tough staying on top of 50 states' laws.


    Is the prize worth more than $5,000? If so, you'll need to register the sweepstakes in New York, Florida and Rhode Island (or prohibit their residents from entering). NY and FL also require that a bond be posted equal to the total value of the offered prizes.
    Official Rules must cover the following at a minimum: No purchase necessary; start and end dates; eligibility requirements (age, residency, any exclusions); method to enter (including a “no purchase” method); limitations on the number of entries by a signal person or household; odds of winning; description and approximate retail value (ARV) of prize; how the winner will be selected and notified; restrictions on receiving the prize; and sponsor’s name and address.
    That "restrictions on receiving the prize" thing is important. If you're looking to get any PR or media coverage from the promotion, make sure to state in the Official Rules that the winner will be required to sign a release and affidavit of eligibility. Those documents will allow you to use the winner's name and likeness, etc.
    You'll need to report the prize to the IRS as income to the winner on Form 1099-MISC, so make sure your accounting folks are in the loop.


    not cool Cryptic,

    That's interesting, that would explain the long delay between "I will look into it" and "we won't reveal anything" from PWI, someone in that mess must have had the brilliant idea to call the legal department^^.

    What are Sweepstakes, Contests and Lotteries or giveaway or promotion?



    What laws govern?

    In the United States, sweepstakes promotions are regulated by numerous federal and state laws as well as overseen by various federal agencies. Federal agencies with jurisdiction to regulate sweepstakes promotions include the Federal Trade Commission (“FTC”), the Federal Communications Commission (“FCC”), the United States Postal Service (“USPS”), and the United States Department of Justice (“DOJ”). Sweepstakes promotions may also be regulated by state laws. And let’s not forget that sweepstakes promotions may be the subject of a private lawsuit brought directly by a consumer with a beef as to how the promotion was handled.

    If a sweepstakes promotion allows nationwide participation, the promotion must comply not only with federal regulations, but also the regulations of each state. For example, in California, the Business and Professions Code governs the promotion of the sweepstakes while the Penal Code (criminal law) sets forth the definition of a lottery. In New York, if the value of the prize offered is more than $5,000.00 the law requires that consumer sweepstakes be registered and bonded 30 days before the commencement of the sweepstakes. The state of Florida also has bonding requirements for sweepstakes.

    Could Cryptic's giveaway be an Illegal Lottery?

    A lottery has three things: Prize, Chance and Consideration.

    Prize – without a prize your giveaway would be lame and no one would enter it, so there’s always a prize!

    Chance – pure luck! You could get around this by having some skill requirement but that is often difficult to manage or greatly limits the number of people who will enter.

    Consideration – something of value. Often it’s money, but it doesn’t have to be. Depending on what you require entrants to do, you could be pushing the envelope on this element. Each state may have their own particular definition making it very difficult to manage.


    Not cool Give everyone the Ship
  • kekvinkekvin Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    Personally i think they should have annouced that they were doing the give away. And said what the criteria x,y,z was and that u needed the eecive mail ticked. They dident need to give speficis
  • shrimphead2015shrimphead2015 Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    Honestly the ship isn't an issue for me. Like anyone else I wouldn't sing the blues if I got it either (who doesn't like getting free stuff?). My issue and I think there are quite a few folks that have said it as well is the way they went about doing this. A little transparency would have gone a long way. For me I could have cared less if they told me the requirements or not but a simple message like "we're giving away *prize* to a few lucky players" I think would have prevented alot of the negativity going on about this particular giveaway.

    It is true that some folks will find a reason to complain anyway but I don't think it would have been on the scale that it is now. As a concerned customer I can't help but wonder what was the purpose the powers that be had in mind with the promotion. I do think that they didn't handle this too well and their explanation for me sounded vague, and their consequent wall of silence creams to me of arrogance. Its not going to make me stop playing or go on a "I Hate Cryptic" campaign because I do actually enjoy playing and as I said in another thread, when Cryptic does something right, they hit it right out of the park.

    This thing with Trendy though is just sick. I hope she contacted the authorities on this and had those idiots that gave her death threats over a stupid ship, banned.
    "There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
  • sohtohsohtoh Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    sunfrancks wrote: »
    Interesting, as I didn't think this "giveaway" would come under a lottery...

    valenn1 wrote: »
    nixboox wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Way I understood things, ppl aren't upset so much over the ship, as they are over the fact they were allegedly not considered 'loyal customers' too.

    Exactly this.

    They insulted the players by saying some were "more loyal" without offering an explanation.

    What legal issues come up when running a contest or giveaway or promotion?

    This is a meaty subject. I'll start by giving my usual advice not to try this at home. A good lawyer who handles this kind of work regularly can put everything together in just a couple hours, saving you time and headaches, as well as keeping your company out of trouble with the authorities. Having said that, it's widely disregarded in practice by little guys who don't know better -- but you'll notice anytime you see a major company involved in one of these, it takes compliance seriously, for good reason.

    In the US, the legal requirements relating to promotional contests and sweepstakes are driven by one goal: To avoid operating an illegal lottery. Gambling is heavily regulated on a state-by-state basis, meaning that if you want to run this kind of promotion, you either must comply with all 50 states' laws or specify that residents of Florida (for example) are not eligible to enter. An illegal lottery includes these elements:
    1.Payment of consideration (such as an entry fee)
    2.Winner chosen by random chance
    3.Prize awarded

    The two types of promotions commonly used by marketers are contests and sweepstakes. A contest requires skill of some kind and judging is involved to choose the winner. You can charge an entry fee for a contest (so you have #1 and #3). A sweepstakes is a drawing for prizes by random chance alone (#2 and #3 above). It's critical that you pick one or the other and don't mix the two. Never charge an entry fee, or require any other form of consideration, for a sweepstakes! That would make it an illegal lottery. Hence "no purchase necessary" in the fine print of just about every sweepstakes you've heard of.

    The rule is the opposite for contests. "Consideration" can include anything that requires significant effort; it doesn't necessarily mean the payment of money. So in a contest (think American Idol), you can require participants to invest time and effort in creating an entry, pay an entry fee, or both, provided that entries are judged on the merits, with no random chance involved. Online contests often start with a mechanism for users to vote for their favorite entries, narrowing down the field to a few finalists, and then a panel of judges picks the winner. (You could do it the other way around but it requires a lot more work.)

    Every contest or sweepstakes needs Official Rules. They are what keep you out of trouble. They all look similar but are not boilerplate and need to be carefully tailored to the specifics of your promotion. This isn't rocket science, but it is important.

    The Official Rules need to be readily accessible to anyone who wants to enter.

    Start by determining eligibility. When in doubt, limit it to US residents over 18 (21 if alcohol or gambling is involved). Minors have separate issues involving parental consent. "Void where prohibited" is good CYA language since it's tough staying on top of 50 states' laws.


    Is the prize worth more than $5,000? If so, you'll need to register the sweepstakes in New York, Florida and Rhode Island (or prohibit their residents from entering). NY and FL also require that a bond be posted equal to the total value of the offered prizes.
    Official Rules must cover the following at a minimum: No purchase necessary; start and end dates; eligibility requirements (age, residency, any exclusions); method to enter (including a “no purchase” method); limitations on the number of entries by a signal person or household; odds of winning; description and approximate retail value (ARV) of prize; how the winner will be selected and notified; restrictions on receiving the prize; and sponsor’s name and address.
    That "restrictions on receiving the prize" thing is important. If you're looking to get any PR or media coverage from the promotion, make sure to state in the Official Rules that the winner will be required to sign a release and affidavit of eligibility. Those documents will allow you to use the winner's name and likeness, etc.
    You'll need to report the prize to the IRS as income to the winner on Form 1099-MISC, so make sure your accounting folks are in the loop.


    not cool Cryptic,

    That's interesting, that would explain the long delay between "I will look into it" and "we won't reveal anything" from PWI, someone in that mess must have had the brilliant idea to call the legal department^^.

    What are Sweepstakes, Contests and Lotteries or giveaway or promotion?



    What laws govern?

    In the United States, sweepstakes promotions are regulated by numerous federal and state laws as well as overseen by various federal agencies. Federal agencies with jurisdiction to regulate sweepstakes promotions include the Federal Trade Commission (“FTC”), the Federal Communications Commission (“FCC”), the United States Postal Service (“USPS”), and the United States Department of Justice (“DOJ”). Sweepstakes promotions may also be regulated by state laws. And let’s not forget that sweepstakes promotions may be the subject of a private lawsuit brought directly by a consumer with a beef as to how the promotion was handled.

    If a sweepstakes promotion allows nationwide participation, the promotion must comply not only with federal regulations, but also the regulations of each state. For example, in California, the Business and Professions Code governs the promotion of the sweepstakes while the Penal Code (criminal law) sets forth the definition of a lottery. In New York, if the value of the prize offered is more than $5,000.00 the law requires that consumer sweepstakes be registered and bonded 30 days before the commencement of the sweepstakes. The state of Florida also has bonding requirements for sweepstakes.

    Could Cryptic's giveaway be an Illegal Lottery?

    A lottery has three things: Prize, Chance and Consideration.

    Prize – without a prize your giveaway would be lame and no one would enter it, so there’s always a prize!

    Chance – pure luck! You could get around this by having some skill requirement but that is often difficult to manage or greatly limits the number of people who will enter.

    Consideration – something of value. Often it’s money, but it doesn’t have to be. Depending on what you require entrants to do, you could be pushing the envelope on this element. Each state may have their own particular definition making it very difficult to manage.


    Not cool Give everyone the Ship

    You forgot to post what came after the text you got from socialmediaexaminer.

    When it comes to the online space, there are few things more valuable than followers/likers/friends (or whatever they’re called at the moment).

    As such, requiring someone to “like” you or “follow” you could be construed as consideration. Even more important, asking an entrant to go to a third-party site, navigate to find a product or service and then report back to your site is even more likely to be deemed consideration, and thus places your giveaway into the classification of illegal lottery. Time is exceedingly valuable!

    They posted a screenshot of an example, then continues below.

    In the above giveaway, the blogger is all about “me, me, me” and there’s no way to enter without giving something of value to the blogger. While this may not get the attention of authorities, clearly there is no “free” way to enter.

    Because technology is moving much faster than the laws that govern, we’re in uncharted territory with the definition of consideration.

    Keep that in mind when figuring out what you’ll have people do for entry. Your best bet is to always have a means of “free” entry and then consider “optional entries.”

    Because there was no "do X and you will be entered" type of thing, it would seem that could actually torpedo your idea that it was illegal.

    Also, unless the monetary value of the prize (the Nagus in this case) exceeds $600, the IRS does not need to be notified.

    Addenda, there is another difference between a lottery and a giveaway (which, so far, this appears to be); in a lottery, purchasing a ticket is a requirement. If Cryptic come in and states that they only considered those who bought any amount of Zen, only then would it be considered a lottery.


    Post edited by sohtoh on
    "I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
  • berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    The heck with the ship, I want the box-o-swag.

    The problem with trying to make this whole thing into a lottery is you're looking at it backwards. In a lottery situation, the prize is motivation for the entrant to give their "consideration." There was no announcement ahead of time staying that there would be s prize given out to people who spent money/time/etc on the game. Without such an announcement, there was no motivation for customers to fulfill the, as yet unannounced, requirements to receive the ship. The prize offered customers no motivation, since they didn't know the giveaway was happening.

    On the other hand, how should this apply to other giveaways we've seen? The tabletop game company with Star Trek ships, whose name escapes me, comes to mind...
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
  • thekodanarmada#7342 thekodanarmada Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    How is this topic even still open? This is a settled matter.
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  • thelordofshadesthelordofshades Member Posts: 258 Arc User
    Oh, noes.
    People with entitlement issues...
    People with reading comprehension problems, who managed to see in the text, what is not there, and feel insulted...
    Now we have self-proclaimed lawyers.

    It's getting ridiculous.

    536px-Triple-facepalm.jpg

  • masterfiretrollmasterfiretroll Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    Yes The problem is There was no announcement

    Implying all that members of community are not supporting the game that my 500$ this year only was not enuff
    and only select few members of community was supporting the game

    Implying thay only the few are worthy picked for“outstanding support”

    The problem is players needed to do to qualify for the ship and community was never informed how to be eligible

    I have seen the email.
    I don't see in the fine print "no purchase necessary"
This discussion has been closed.