and while it isn't star trek...the various alteran ships from stargate, despite being millions of years old, can beat the snot out of anything currently available in the milky way OR pegasus galaxies
when dealing with starships, age doesn't mean a god damn thing
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
honestly given how many times Kirk busted out his Tarantula, Picard his Rezreth, and Janeway her Jem'hadar Dreadnaught, I don't see how anyone is bothered by anything anymore in STO.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
honestly given how many times Kirk busted out his Tarantula, Picard his Rezreth, and Janeway her Jem'hadar Dreadnaught, I don't see how anyone is bothered by anything anymore in STO.
Admittedly, Bird of Preys were more popular with Star Trek captains - Kirk and Dukat both used one. But Sisko flew a Jem'Hadar Fighter.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Truth is...even when you're watching canon Trek episodes...they were always stuffing new systems and technology into existing ships. Retrofitting better solutions into older designs. It's not unreasonable even for a Science Fiction world like Star Trek to assume that this is being done to some extent on every vessel on every side.
I mean...this is how the Borg became as powerful as they are...taking better solutions and retrofitting them into their bag of tricks. As Spock would say..It is logical.
A ship would leave spacedock vanilla and the engineers on that ship would find ways to improve the existing systems and even to better them. So even from the gameworld perspective, we're constantly looking to improve our existing vessel. And our engineers and exploration enable us to do that. That's no Constitution class cruiser...THAT'S THE USS STARFIRE! Her engineers have her capable of Warp 12! Etc. etc. Good stuff! Very believable.
just to piggy back on what others have said, in the real world it's entirely possible to take a car from the 50's, replace the engine and all other components with modern versions, keeping only the frame unchanged, and have it running like a brand new 2017 model with a retro appearance.
Granted, for most this would be cost prohibitive, and for others it would be ruining a classic, but starfleet wouldn't have to worry about any of those things because money no longer exists, and performance is more important than nostalgia when it comes to military applications. So if there's anything that would make upgrading the systems on a mothballed ship worth the time, they would probably do it.
Lifetime Subscriber since Beta ^ Click image to listen to my favorite Trek theme song! ^
From what I heard, it won't matter. Since they will be done with those ships at Lv10, and use regular ships. Unless you bought Zen store ships.
So more likely my TOS will end up in the Excelsior, Avenger, or ?? I'm not fully decided yet. Shame too, I was hoping to use one of those new Temporal Ships.
so skin one of the t6 counterparts in it and roll on like a boss
I was expecting to see a "Faction" not just a starting story. From this I will more likely play this one much less past the first 10 Levels. Since it will revert to a regular character. Where I was hoping to see all kinds of new ships for it to play with.
I will start one to see that part of the story. After that it will be put on the back burner until I get around to it.
Might as well run a toon all the way through to get the account unlocks.
kirk busted out something frequently, but it was no taranatula...
It's rumored that he was quite proficient at the "Snake Dance"...
Just imagine what more he could have accomplished, if he had one of those Temporal Molecular Doohickeys.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
The technology exists to rip out old systems and replace them with new...to take existing designs and replace elements of them using new materials. Power conduits can be replaced or added to. Shield and weapons systems can be retrofitted into existing superstructures. Etc. etc.
If you're using an older design, it would make sense that you, as the commander, would use your own rank and resources to bring your ship up to date, so to speak, to give it a fighting chance in a technologically advancing playing field.
Look at the Voyager episode, Prophecy. That old D7 had Voyager's shields down to 50% before they did a metaphasic scan and pinpointed its coordinates. Not bad for an old relic. This thread brings to light an important point..and that is...how fast is technology advancing when it comes to starship design and functionality?
That just says that an old 23rd century Klingon Battlecruiser has weapons that can pack enough of a punch to weaken a 24th century Federation Science ship.
This is what was said on Mem Alpha.
USS Voyager is being attacked by a ship which just decloaked and then recloaked. They are all surprised when a disruptor they were hit with had a Klingon signature. A hail to the cloaked ship gets no response. They discover it is a D7-class cruiser, retired decades ago. With the age in mind, Voyager uses a metaphasic sweep to locate the ship, and fires.
Aboard the Klingon ship, the cloak has failed. The captain orders his crew to answer the hail to buy time to repair the cloak. When Captain Kathryn Janeway asks them to stand down, they refuse to surrender to an enemy of the Klingon Empire.
Act OneEdit
Janeway tries to explain that the Federation and the Klingon Empire signed a treaty eighty years earlier, but the captain won't believe it. Janeway states that she isn't lying, but even if she were not, the Klingons are no match for her ship.
Also if I recall correctly Voyager had early adaptive shields so they get harder to damage as the battle goes on.
They didn't even have to work hard to wreck their cloak.
As far as the speed of design and functionality, the Intrepid class was designed in that age of peace that Starfleet had enjoyed, and wasn't a combat vessel. It's a science ship. Purpose matters.
That same D7 would not have done so well against purpose built Starfleet combat vessels like the Defiant, Sovereign, and Prometheus classes, and those were ships that were designed and put into service within a decade of the Intrepid being deployed.
The gap between absolute ability however seems to lessen over time in some ways. The NX-01 was woefully underclassed in its day because it didn't have shields. Combined with the phase cannons and spatial torpedoes, it was a light frigate compared to almost everything else out there. That said, it was on par with any other species without shield technology. For instance the Orions needed to sabotage the ship in order to stand a chance.
The technology exists to rip out old systems and replace them with new...to take existing designs and replace elements of them using new materials. Power conduits can be replaced or added to. Shield and weapons systems can be retrofitted into existing superstructures. Etc. etc.
If you're using an older design, it would make sense that you, as the commander, would use your own rank and resources to bring your ship up to date, so to speak, to give it a fighting chance in a technologically advancing playing field.
Look at the Voyager episode, Prophecy. That old D7 had Voyager's shields down to 50% before they did a metaphasic scan and pinpointed its coordinates. Not bad for an old relic. This thread brings to light an important point..and that is...how fast is technology advancing when it comes to starship design and functionality?
hit the nail on the head as to how fast it is advancing I am not sure but when ya have a design that works you tend to use said design like the B'Rel and D7 for a long time
That's a matter of Klingon cultural preference however, and even they have introduced new designs over time, from the Vor'cha to the Negh'var, and even the Hegh'ta (the t5 Bird of Prey was designed by John Eaves for DS9 but, budget.)
There's also the issue of the frame itself being an issue with some technology. The warp field of a starship is affected by the shape of the starship hull, so advances in ship shape have a direct effect on ship speed. Canonically I wouldn't want to fly a Galaxy class in a quantum slipstream, if you look at the shape of the Dauntless, it's the furthest thing possible.
Vulcan D'Kyr (300 year old design at least by STO's time.)
NX class (T1 ship, but can still pack a punch if built right. Just look at the occasional T1 STF run)
TOS Connie T1 (same story as the NX)
Excelsior Class Retrofit T5
Xindi ships (kinda the same as the D'Kyr)
Klingon K'T'inga (Fleet variant available at T5 with usable D7 TOS/movie skin)
Romulan T'Varo (design dates back to the 22nd Century so... 300 years old at least)
Class F shuttle (can fight alongside Type 10s and Danubes that are more modern designs)
I believe the Voth Designs are all supposed to be quite old as well, and the city ship most certainly was in Distant Origin.
Well the Voth is a different situation, they've had 65 million years to develop their technology, and they're hampered by a culture that abhors change, placing societal norms and supremacy ahead of true science. They're handicapped in their development by pride.
just to piggy back on what others have said, in the real world it's entirely possible to take a car from the 50's, replace the engine and all other components with modern versions, keeping only the frame unchanged, and have it running like a brand new 2017 model with a retro appearance.
Granted, for most this would be cost prohibitive, and for others it would be ruining a classic, but starfleet wouldn't have to worry about any of those things because money no longer exists, and performance is more important than nostalgia when it comes to military applications. So if there's anything that would make upgrading the systems on a mothballed ship worth the time, they would probably do it.
Just because capitalism has been obsoleted by the post scarcity economy doesn't mean that they don't want to maximize resource efficiency.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
just to piggy back on what others have said, in the real world it's entirely possible to take a car from the 50's, replace the engine and all other components with modern versions, keeping only the frame unchanged, and have it running like a brand new 2017 model with a retro appearance.
Well yer mpg will be TRIBBLE cause 50s made cars from steel not fiberglass
The old ships seemed to be more powerful because they had "more power" but it was "raw and unfocused" and they ate through antimatter like planet eater eats through moons.
Compare to the 24th and early 25th century ships that used more "refined" weapons that could slice and dice with more precision, and were more "efficient" and could zoom through space at a faster speed.
I think old TOS ships were nice and powerful, but they cost a lot in dilithium and antimatter to run. Sorta like comparing 1950s/1960s cars to Modern cars. Sure you could use 1950's tech to build a car that would beat most modern cars in a race but you would burn a LOT more fuel. Systems such as Fuel injection, Automatic Gear shifty thingies, Anti-Lock Brakes, and other creature comforts like air conditioning and power seats.
Sure you can drive a "classic car" and even retrofit new car tech into them, as for speed, highway speeds have pretty much remained roughly the same (in the city) , but in fact interstates are a lot faster now days as advances in car safety has increased.
I must warn you, I am quite Isane! I am Grand Duchess of the Abh Empire: Beneej Letopanyu Spoor!
Comments
when dealing with starships, age doesn't mean a god damn thing
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Admittedly, Bird of Preys were more popular with Star Trek captains - Kirk and Dukat both used one. But Sisko flew a Jem'Hadar Fighter.
I mean...this is how the Borg became as powerful as they are...taking better solutions and retrofitting them into their bag of tricks. As Spock would say..It is logical.
A ship would leave spacedock vanilla and the engineers on that ship would find ways to improve the existing systems and even to better them. So even from the gameworld perspective, we're constantly looking to improve our existing vessel. And our engineers and exploration enable us to do that. That's no Constitution class cruiser...THAT'S THE USS STARFIRE! Her engineers have her capable of Warp 12! Etc. etc. Good stuff! Very believable.
Granted, for most this would be cost prohibitive, and for others it would be ruining a classic, but starfleet wouldn't have to worry about any of those things because money no longer exists, and performance is more important than nostalgia when it comes to military applications. So if there's anything that would make upgrading the systems on a mothballed ship worth the time, they would probably do it.
^ Click image to listen to my favorite Trek theme song! ^
Might as well run a toon all the way through to get the account unlocks.
It's rumored that he was quite proficient at the "Snake Dance"...
Just imagine what more he could have accomplished, if he had one of those Temporal Molecular Doohickeys.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Would that be the kiss or the punch in the face afterward?
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
This. It's not actually that serious.
That just says that an old 23rd century Klingon Battlecruiser has weapons that can pack enough of a punch to weaken a 24th century Federation Science ship.
This is what was said on Mem Alpha.
Also if I recall correctly Voyager had early adaptive shields so they get harder to damage as the battle goes on.
They didn't even have to work hard to wreck their cloak.
As far as the speed of design and functionality, the Intrepid class was designed in that age of peace that Starfleet had enjoyed, and wasn't a combat vessel. It's a science ship. Purpose matters.
That same D7 would not have done so well against purpose built Starfleet combat vessels like the Defiant, Sovereign, and Prometheus classes, and those were ships that were designed and put into service within a decade of the Intrepid being deployed.
The gap between absolute ability however seems to lessen over time in some ways. The NX-01 was woefully underclassed in its day because it didn't have shields. Combined with the phase cannons and spatial torpedoes, it was a light frigate compared to almost everything else out there. That said, it was on par with any other species without shield technology. For instance the Orions needed to sabotage the ship in order to stand a chance.
That's a matter of Klingon cultural preference however, and even they have introduced new designs over time, from the Vor'cha to the Negh'var, and even the Hegh'ta (the t5 Bird of Prey was designed by John Eaves for DS9 but, budget.)
There's also the issue of the frame itself being an issue with some technology. The warp field of a starship is affected by the shape of the starship hull, so advances in ship shape have a direct effect on ship speed. Canonically I wouldn't want to fly a Galaxy class in a quantum slipstream, if you look at the shape of the Dauntless, it's the furthest thing possible.
Well the Voth is a different situation, they've had 65 million years to develop their technology, and they're hampered by a culture that abhors change, placing societal norms and supremacy ahead of true science. They're handicapped in their development by pride.
Just because capitalism has been obsoleted by the post scarcity economy doesn't mean that they don't want to maximize resource efficiency.
Well yer mpg will be TRIBBLE cause 50s made cars from steel not fiberglass
No because those ships are ships from the future, made to fit in the old era in order to enable the temporal agent to deal with trouble effectivly.
Would be TRIBBLE to lard around in an old constitution when the temporal evildoaer comes rocking in with a high tech escort...
It should bothered everyone except for MR EP and Devs...they only see $$$.
Compare to the 24th and early 25th century ships that used more "refined" weapons that could slice and dice with more precision, and were more "efficient" and could zoom through space at a faster speed.
I think old TOS ships were nice and powerful, but they cost a lot in dilithium and antimatter to run. Sorta like comparing 1950s/1960s cars to Modern cars. Sure you could use 1950's tech to build a car that would beat most modern cars in a race but you would burn a LOT more fuel. Systems such as Fuel injection, Automatic Gear shifty thingies, Anti-Lock Brakes, and other creature comforts like air conditioning and power seats.
Sure you can drive a "classic car" and even retrofit new car tech into them, as for speed, highway speeds have pretty much remained roughly the same (in the city) , but in fact interstates are a lot faster now days as advances in car safety has increased.