I think the shared CD on torps of same type is absolute rubbish. You can fire same type beams, cannons,...why make that not so for torps?
I have limited experience in doing torp builds. But I think they are the most challenging. First, not all ships are suited for a torp boat imo. And secondly, getting the mix of torps right, and Setting up BOff skills as well - much harder than just beams and BFAW.
That said: I do have a T T'varo (Maleem?) fun torp build...that I hardly use
18 characters
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
Thinking Torpedo threads are almost FCT category but i'll play. make the torps about 3x as powerful as they currently are but limit the number you can have, like a frigate gets 20 a destroyer 30 a cruiser 40 a dread 75
this is a great idea, instead of unlimited torps you could equip the launcher but buy the torpedos themselves seperately, add in different grades like we got for ingame gear and you got something.
Im talking make torps stronger, but you are limted on how many you can fire, and how many your ship can carry by class, as you said the larger the ship the more you can carry.
Thinking Torpedo threads are almost FCT category but i'll play. make the torps about 3x as powerful as they currently are but limit the number you can have, like a frigate gets 20 a destroyer 30 a cruiser 40 a dread 75
this is a great idea, instead of unlimited torps you could equip the launcher but buy the torpedos themselves seperately, add in different grades like we got for ingame gear and you got something.
Im talking make torps stronger, but you are limted on how many you can fire, and how many your ship can carry by class, as you said the larger the ship the more you can carry.
Apart from that would ruin torpedo builds and ruin STO for pilots that like to fly torpedo builds. Who wants to run out of ammo after 30seconds of combat?
Yeah asking for finite torpedoes makes as much sense as asking for depletable energy weapon banks, depletable energy and using Dilithium to keep your ship powered up.
I think the shared CD on torps of same type is absolute rubbish. You can fire same type beams, cannons,...why make that not so for torps?
I have limited experience in doing torp builds. But I think they are the most challenging. First, not all ships are suited for a torp boat imo. And secondly, getting the mix of torps right, and Setting up BOff skills as well - much harder than just beams and BFAW.
That said: I do have a T T'varo (Maleem?) fun torp build...that I hardly use
They don't have shared CD at all. In fact they reduce the CD for each other as well. I can always fire my two front torps at the same time.
make ALL torpedos ignore shields, limit 1 front 1rear slot per ship, 5 front slot ships can equip 2 at the front.
start making different types of torpedo damage, like the omni beams we have, so they benefict frim tac consoles.
last resort solution: make a cosmetic slot where you can put a torpedo that does 0 damage so that people that want to use torpedos for rp, visuals etc can use then without having to change setup and leaves REAL torpedos for those that enjoy them.
make ALL torpedos ignore shields, limit 1 front 1rear slot per ship, 5 front slot ships can equip 2 at the front.
start making different types of torpedo damage, like the omni beams we have, so they benefict frim tac consoles.
last resort solution: make a cosmetic slot where you can put a torpedo that does 0 damage so that people that want to use torpedos for rp, visuals etc can use then without having to change setup and leaves REAL torpedos for those that enjoy them.
Ignore shields completely?!? Are you suffering from space madness?
Deflector shields are supposed to stop kinetic and energy weapons, it's why getting hold of the shield frequency in Generations was a big deal for the Klinks. To allow them to pass right through would utterly kill to death any sense of balance this game has, poor npcs would just give up and go home.
What is needed is some sort of sensible dynamic shield hardness scale for kinetic absorption/resistance. And possibly some sort of speed boost. Not some crazy idea like making them into god-weapons.
Ignore shields completely?!? Are you suffering from space madness?
Deflector shields are supposed to stop kinetic and energy weapons, it's why getting hold of the shield frequency in Generations was a big deal for the Klinks. To allow them to pastiche through would utterly kill to death any sense of balance this game has, poor npcs would just give up and go home.
What is needed is some sort of sensible dynamic shield hardness scale for kinetic absorption/resistance. And possibly some sort of speed boost. Not some crazy idea like making them into god-weapons.
Torpedo's need increase in speed and default shield penetration. I searched for some relevant torp builds when building my brel bomber and found if you want to do relevant dmg, you need to have kemocite 1-2. That thing is like 100 mil ec. Making torpedo builds quite expensive and dependent on shiny lockbox goodies. Also, mines are horrific like forever, they need like x10 increase in numbers and maybe get a cloak option like the romulan mines to protect them vs faw.
I'll not deny BFAW builds are seriously out of whack with every other build but that doesn't mean we go and make everything else crazy powerful to match. BFAW is in need of a whole need of attention but that's not the discussion here.
@robyvision you don't need kemocite or lockbox goodies for a good damaging torp build. That's just nonsense. Get a ship, slot a Neutronic torp and stack up quantum consoles and it'll kill things pretty damm well. Or slot a particle emission torp (1mil on exchange) and stack EPG boosts to cook the enemy inside their shields. None of this stuff costs a lot really.
I'll not deny BFAW builds are seriously out of whack with every other build but that doesn't mean we go and make everything else crazy powerful to match.
BFAW is in need of a whole need of attention but that's not the discussion here.
> you need to have kemocite 1-2. That thing is like 100 mil ec.
You don't need Kemocite for a torp build. It's one of those "nice to have" skills but not necessary. In fact, I dropped Kemocite from my Sci-Torp builds even though I own both KLW 1 and 2 (bought them on day 1 of release when they were only 5-7M each).
Besides, KLW now works better for FAW builds than torp builds. It's not worth the 100M asking price.
@robyvision of course I know that, but it still doesn't mean torps aren't any good. I know the CE is easier to kill with torps and exotics so I use those, but I can kill Tholians or Borg just as well with the same tactics.
Torps take some learning to get good at, those who bother realise how fun they can be and put in the effort to get good. It's not like BFAW where you just slap on some beams and spire consoles to kill things, you've gotta know when you shot. We just want some small changes to improve things not some massive crazy-powerful buff that kills any remaining balance I the game.
The problem with STO is, changes in how things work result in them making something rediculusly overpowered and game changing most of the time. Someone wants power x being nerved? They nerv it into uselessness. They intend to buff power Y? They make it so strong, using anything else makes you look like a noob.
My point is that i have given up on hoping for a more "realistic" approach on how things work in STO for a long time. It is obviously completely impossible for MMO developers to create a Star trek game where things work as in the shows. Instead things are made so over the top it makes you think Star Trek has always been a superhero comic for 10 year olds, instead of a (mostly) character driven sci fi series for a more mature audience.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I think the shared CD on torps of same type is absolute rubbish. You can fire same type beams, cannons,...why make that not so for torps?
I think at the time the game was created, this was an intentional limiting factor because of the damage potential of torps (especially TriCobalts or TriC's for short). Now, with PowerCreep 11.5 out, the hardest thing about a torpedo ship is working around archaic mechanics and the bugs.
Here's another one that'll baffle you: Should there ever be a time that a lower rank power can out-damage a higher rank power where the only variable is the rank of said power? If you're using salvo torps and have over 200% critD (with or w/o buffs), your lower rank HY or TS can out-damage your higher rank versions. This happens because each torpedo in the lower rank powers are individually stronger than the torpedoes in the higher rank powers. If the lower rank one crits, depending on your critD, it will out-damage a higher rank one if it crits by such a wide margin, that the extra torpedoes in the higher ranks cannot compensate unless they crit as well. Since each torp in the salvo has an independent chance to crit, you roll the dice for each torpedo every time you fire a salvo.
Again, one of those archaic settings that didn't factor in powerCreep, and causes oddities like, "sometimes, your HY1 will do better than your HY3 w/ Neutronic/Quantum Phase/Transphasics/Terran (ESPECIALLY the Terran Torpedo)/Crafted Quantums/Crafted Photons/Resonant Transphasic... I think I got the vast majority of the salvos. Now, for the special, single-shot HY ones like Gravimetric, Enhanced Bio-Molecular, Temporal Disruption Device, TriC, Elachi, PEP, Omega, etc., the higher ranks are desired, because they deliver a higher damage projectile to the target.
Yeah asking for finite torpedoes makes as much sense as asking for depletable energy weapon banks, depletable energy and using Dilithium to keep your ship powered up.
Well, if they're all done at the same time, why not
make ALL torpedos ignore shields, limit 1 front 1rear slot per ship, 5 front slot ships can equip 2 at the front.
start making different types of torpedo damage, like the omni beams we have, so they benefict frim tac consoles.
last resort solution: make a cosmetic slot where you can put a torpedo that does 0 damage so that people that want to use torpedos for rp, visuals etc can use then without having to change setup and leaves REAL torpedos for those that enjoy them.
I think that we need to go in the opposite direction and ditch all the crazy shield bypass mechanics completely. Yes, that means, Weapon System Synergy, Self-Modulating Fire, Plasma Explosions, etc, but keep Transphasics as-is and make Science get the Transphasic treatment (a large % of shield bypass).
Torpedo's need increase in speed and default shield penetration. I searched for some relevant torp builds when building my brel bomber and found if you want to do relevant dmg, you need to have kemocite 1-2. That thing is like 100 mil ec. Making torpedo builds quite expensive and dependent on shiny lockbox goodies. Also, mines are horrific like forever, they need like x10 increase in numbers and maybe get a cloak option like the romulan mines to protect them vs faw.
You do not NEED Kemocite to have a good torp build that's extremely potent. Kemocite for torps is primarily a debuff to the target (akin to attack Pattern Beta), and secondarily a radiation damage attack that hits the target (shields or hull) prior to the kinetic damage lands. If there are shields there, KLW damages the shields first PER TORPEDO. Yes, it IS a QoL improvement, but it's not a necessity. Having hit 100K DPS in 3 torpedo ships prior to KLW's introduction, I can safely say that.
Now, I will agree with you that the flight speed mechanic needs to be changed in favor of torps. That's a no-brainer.
I'll not deny BFAW builds are seriously out of whack with every other build but that doesn't mean we go and make everything else crazy powerful to match.
BFAW is in need of a whole need of attention but that's not the discussion here.
@robyvision you don't need kemocite or lockbox goodies for a good damaging torp build. That's just nonsense. Get a ship, slot a Neutronic torp and stack up quantum consoles and it'll kill things pretty damm well.
Or slot a particle emission torp (1mil on exchange) and stack EPG boosts to cook the enemy inside their shields.
None of this stuff costs a lot really.
+1. Or, you can stack DrainX and use QPhase and strip shields + hit hard, then follow up w/ Neutronic to keep power levels low and other quantums w/ Pen to finish the job. Or run a hybrid build to use the right torp for the right job and just annihilate targets in front of you.
In current mechanics, torp boats work best in team settings, especially when you're facing very robust targets, and especially when the team is debuffing multiple targets with you. The potential is not even fully realized due to the bugs, but there are ways to mitigate the drawbacks.
I still think that changing how torp-spread works to make it fire one additional torpedo-volley/cluster from any torpedo-launcher you have slotted of a similar type (photon, quantum, plasma, ect) to the torpedo-launcher you activated the ability with is the best option for making torpedos a bit more viable compared to beams/cannons. It would be a bit op without some adjustments an changes, but that is true of most ability changes you might see done, and even if the additional torpedo-cluster/volley that are fired were at a reduced damage amount it would still be a buff that would help make torpedos more competitive. Still as has been shown in the past as well as said here it would seem such a change is just not something the devs would want to implement or mess with more..
Now for torpedoes or at least how shields affect torpedo-damage in general I would say that I agree with the damage reduction (75%), or the shield resistance/hardness of the shield, should be determined by either remaining hp of the shield in question or the ship's shield power-level rating. This would make both the hardness/resistance alongside the damage reduction a shield can have against torpedoes (even also in the case of shield resistances against energy weapon types) more dynamic, as well as allow you to undermine a target's shields via using power draining abilities, as well as shield stripping abilities without needing to fully deplete the target's shield. I would also though love to see a trait that causes your energy weapon hits to destabilize the target's shield integrity thus reducing the damage reduction/hardness/resistance of the ship's shields, and so making your fallow -up torpedo attacks within a short duration (or until certain shield-heals are used) more effective at dealing damage thru the ship's shields.
For mines it would be nice if you could have cluster-torpedoes be affected by the dispersal attack patterns that affect other mines. Though a doff that might give your dispersal patterns a buff that stealths them till a target comes within range, or gives your mines a shield effect absorbing any weapon hits up to a cap to improve your mine's survivability.
Umm....Torpedo builds are a thing lol. And some are downright scary! I use torps as my only weapon alongside my Science Skills and I massacre everything in the game.
Torpedo builds are a thing. But that's not what threads like these are for.
Mixed builds are NOT a thing. And no amount of "love for the torpedo" is going to make them a thing. The game mechanics are fundamentally designed to favor builds with a single weapon type. People only use multiple weapon types if they don't know or don't care about maximum performance. Making torpedoes stronger can get people to switch from all energy to all torps, but it can't make people mix them.
Only way to make mixed builds competitive is to either force players to use them with equipment limits or to replace the entire weapon/console/boff ability paradigm with something that doesn't give advantage to focusing on one type.
Very clear you haven't figured out how to do a mixed build.
In current mechanics, torp boats work best in team settings, especially when you're facing very robust targets, and especially when the team is debuffing multiple targets with you. The potential is not even fully realized due to the bugs, but there are ways to mitigate the drawbacks.
Completely agree with you here. I've always found I can do some epic damage when the rest of the team is present. Mainly because I don't need to worry about aggro, or shields or debuffs because the team contributes all of that with beam spam. But also because my heavy hitting torps will complement the rest of the team who are providing the continual damage to keep enemies occupied. They might do more damage overall but they can rely on me to come in and end an engagement instantly if I get through those shields.
If you've got a torp boat on your team you know you've got someone who can do some really nice spike damage, the rest of you have just got to work with them. Concentrate on getting a shield facing down and debuffing that boss ship and a torp boat can really get to work on it.
Now for torpedoes or at least how shields affect torpedo-damage in general I would say that I agree with the damage reduction (75%), or the shield resistance/hardness of the shield, should be determined by either remaining hp of the shield in question or the ship's shield power-level rating. This would make both the hardness/resistance alongside the damage reduction a shield can have against torpedoes (even also in the case of shield resistances against energy weapon types) more dynamic, as well as allow you to undermine a target's shields via using power draining abilities, as well as shield stripping abilities without needing to fully deplete the target's shield.
I think this sort of thing could really revitalize build variety to be honest and i do hope the devs will look at it one day.
Imagine if that tetryon build was worth it now because even knocking off half of the enemy's facings with the proc will drop their resistances by half, giving your torp boat buddy a chance to hit them.
Or having a drain boat to take down the enemy power levels and thus their shield's resistances as well, benefiting all the team members.
Lots of really cool stuff could happen.
The current mechanic is a very basic, antiquated way of dealing with shields, a much more dynamic system would really go a long way to improving things I think.
In someways I kinda wish they would have made the crafted torpedo, and cannon items more like the omni-beam in that it was something you could craft of any weapon type into. Like a heavy or dual torpedo-launcher for the torpedo, and a dual or heavy variant of the turrets that had either a higher rate of fire or a higher damage output.
What you want are Complimentary Torpedo Flight Speeds (no seriously, have a look). It's an idea that preserves "slow flight" for the early game, but then makes possible "fast(er) flight" as the Mk Levels increase on gear (in this case Impulse Speeds). It's a nuanced solution to a problem that deserves a nuanced answer ... and ideally it would affect Torpedoes, Mines and Cannons (ie. all "projectile" animation based damage sources) for both PCs and NPCs at the game mechanical level.
As far as Shield NEGATION of Torpedo Damage is concerned, I'm going to break with the consensus here and say that the Negation of Torpedo Damage should be subjected to RNGesus where the chance to Negate a portion of the damage is equal to the % of Shield Remaining that takes the damage. That way, instead of having a 100% chance of 75% Torpedo Damage Negation if Shield HP is 1+ ... instead you have a 75% Torpedo Damage Negation on (current Shield HP/max Shield HP)% chance ... meaning that the 75% Negation is more reliable when Shields are at full HP and less reliable when Shields are at low HP (and obviously Shield Down offers 0% chance of 75% Torpedo Damage Negation). After implementing THAT change, re-evaluate (I know, heresy, right?) and determine if additional adjustments are called for ... such as adjusting the value of the Shield Negation % (to something other than 75%?).
Point being that Full Shields are "strong" against Torpedoes, while Damaged Shields are "weak" against Torpedoes and prone to "bleedthrough" ...
Torpedoes, ARE powerful whether shields are up OR down. one only needs to watch THIS: The Battle of Khitomer from ST The Undiscovered Country https://youtube.com/watch?v=VPz-6HuM8Sc
Dev's watch and pay close attention; There should/ought to be very LITTLE (not some stupidly high percentage like 75) "Shield Negation" of Kinetic damage.
I remember that. McCoy: "I'd give real money if he'd just shut up!" Very funny. I felt the same way.
But yeah, I've been running mixed builds since day 1 of playing this game. I'm another one who isn't concerned with OP DPS. Annihilating the enemy in one salvo gets boring after awhile when I know that I can outlast them anyway and have a bit of fun while I tear them apart with my (admittedly pathetic compared to dedicated DPSers) weapons.
I play whatever I feel like playing and once in awhile I'll pack up to a 50k shot. Once in awhile. Which is fine with me.
As for torps, most all of these suggestions would be a nice addition.
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
Comments
I have limited experience in doing torp builds. But I think they are the most challenging. First, not all ships are suited for a torp boat imo. And secondly, getting the mix of torps right, and Setting up BOff skills as well - much harder than just beams and BFAW.
That said: I do have a T T'varo (Maleem?) fun torp build...that I hardly use
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
this is a great idea, instead of unlimited torps you could equip the launcher but buy the torpedos themselves seperately, add in different grades like we got for ingame gear and you got something.
Im talking make torps stronger, but you are limted on how many you can fire, and how many your ship can carry by class, as you said the larger the ship the more you can carry.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
They don't have shared CD at all. In fact they reduce the CD for each other as well. I can always fire my two front torps at the same time.
start making different types of torpedo damage, like the omni beams we have, so they benefict frim tac consoles.
last resort solution: make a cosmetic slot where you can put a torpedo that does 0 damage so that people that want to use torpedos for rp, visuals etc can use then without having to change setup and leaves REAL torpedos for those that enjoy them.
so many ideas like this make me cringe
Deflector shields are supposed to stop kinetic and energy weapons, it's why getting hold of the shield frequency in Generations was a big deal for the Klinks. To allow them to pass right through would utterly kill to death any sense of balance this game has, poor npcs would just give up and go home.
What is needed is some sort of sensible dynamic shield hardness scale for kinetic absorption/resistance. And possibly some sort of speed boost. Not some crazy idea like making them into god-weapons.
you mean like faw builds are now?
BFAW is in need of a whole need of attention but that's not the discussion here.
Torps actually do pretty well once you now how to shoot them. They may not win DPS prizes but they can be very competitive, just ask the poor old Crystaline Entity.
There's more thought goes into getting a good torp build and that means you gotta learn your way to get better, no easy I-win© button here.
They could just do with a few tweaks to bring them up a peg or two.
@robyvision you don't need kemocite or lockbox goodies for a good damaging torp build. That's just nonsense. Get a ship, slot a Neutronic torp and stack up quantum consoles and it'll kill things pretty damm well.
Or slot a particle emission torp (1mil on exchange) and stack EPG boosts to cook the enemy inside their shields.
None of this stuff costs a lot really.
Crystalline entity is meant to be inferior to torps and resilient to energy weapons. You didnt know that?
You don't need Kemocite for a torp build. It's one of those "nice to have" skills but not necessary. In fact, I dropped Kemocite from my Sci-Torp builds even though I own both KLW 1 and 2 (bought them on day 1 of release when they were only 5-7M each).
Besides, KLW now works better for FAW builds than torp builds. It's not worth the 100M asking price.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I know the CE is easier to kill with torps and exotics so I use those, but I can kill Tholians or Borg just as well with the same tactics.
Torps take some learning to get good at, those who bother realise how fun they can be and put in the effort to get good. It's not like BFAW where you just slap on some beams and spire consoles to kill things, you've gotta know when you shot.
We just want some small changes to improve things not some massive crazy-powerful buff that kills any remaining balance I the game.
My point is that i have given up on hoping for a more "realistic" approach on how things work in STO for a long time. It is obviously completely impossible for MMO developers to create a Star trek game where things work as in the shows. Instead things are made so over the top it makes you think Star Trek has always been a superhero comic for 10 year olds, instead of a (mostly) character driven sci fi series for a more mature audience.
I think at the time the game was created, this was an intentional limiting factor because of the damage potential of torps (especially TriCobalts or TriC's for short). Now, with PowerCreep 11.5 out, the hardest thing about a torpedo ship is working around archaic mechanics and the bugs.
Here's another one that'll baffle you: Should there ever be a time that a lower rank power can out-damage a higher rank power where the only variable is the rank of said power? If you're using salvo torps and have over 200% critD (with or w/o buffs), your lower rank HY or TS can out-damage your higher rank versions. This happens because each torpedo in the lower rank powers are individually stronger than the torpedoes in the higher rank powers. If the lower rank one crits, depending on your critD, it will out-damage a higher rank one if it crits by such a wide margin, that the extra torpedoes in the higher ranks cannot compensate unless they crit as well. Since each torp in the salvo has an independent chance to crit, you roll the dice for each torpedo every time you fire a salvo.
Again, one of those archaic settings that didn't factor in powerCreep, and causes oddities like, "sometimes, your HY1 will do better than your HY3 w/ Neutronic/Quantum Phase/Transphasics/Terran (ESPECIALLY the Terran Torpedo)/Crafted Quantums/Crafted Photons/Resonant Transphasic... I think I got the vast majority of the salvos. Now, for the special, single-shot HY ones like Gravimetric, Enhanced Bio-Molecular, Temporal Disruption Device, TriC, Elachi, PEP, Omega, etc., the higher ranks are desired, because they deliver a higher damage projectile to the target.
Welcome to torps.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Well, if they're all done at the same time, why not
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I think that we need to go in the opposite direction and ditch all the crazy shield bypass mechanics completely. Yes, that means, Weapon System Synergy, Self-Modulating Fire, Plasma Explosions, etc, but keep Transphasics as-is and make Science get the Transphasic treatment (a large % of shield bypass).
Part of the problem solved already.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
You do not NEED Kemocite to have a good torp build that's extremely potent. Kemocite for torps is primarily a debuff to the target (akin to attack Pattern Beta), and secondarily a radiation damage attack that hits the target (shields or hull) prior to the kinetic damage lands. If there are shields there, KLW damages the shields first PER TORPEDO. Yes, it IS a QoL improvement, but it's not a necessity. Having hit 100K DPS in 3 torpedo ships prior to KLW's introduction, I can safely say that.
Now, I will agree with you that the flight speed mechanic needs to be changed in favor of torps. That's a no-brainer.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
+1. Or, you can stack DrainX and use QPhase and strip shields + hit hard, then follow up w/ Neutronic to keep power levels low and other quantums w/ Pen to finish the job. Or run a hybrid build to use the right torp for the right job and just annihilate targets in front of you.
In current mechanics, torp boats work best in team settings, especially when you're facing very robust targets, and especially when the team is debuffing multiple targets with you. The potential is not even fully realized due to the bugs, but there are ways to mitigate the drawbacks.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Now for torpedoes or at least how shields affect torpedo-damage in general I would say that I agree with the damage reduction (75%), or the shield resistance/hardness of the shield, should be determined by either remaining hp of the shield in question or the ship's shield power-level rating. This would make both the hardness/resistance alongside the damage reduction a shield can have against torpedoes (even also in the case of shield resistances against energy weapon types) more dynamic, as well as allow you to undermine a target's shields via using power draining abilities, as well as shield stripping abilities without needing to fully deplete the target's shield. I would also though love to see a trait that causes your energy weapon hits to destabilize the target's shield integrity thus reducing the damage reduction/hardness/resistance of the ship's shields, and so making your fallow -up torpedo attacks within a short duration (or until certain shield-heals are used) more effective at dealing damage thru the ship's shields.
For mines it would be nice if you could have cluster-torpedoes be affected by the dispersal attack patterns that affect other mines. Though a doff that might give your dispersal patterns a buff that stealths them till a target comes within range, or gives your mines a shield effect absorbing any weapon hits up to a cap to improve your mine's survivability.
Very clear you haven't figured out how to do a mixed build.
Completely agree with you here. I've always found I can do some epic damage when the rest of the team is present. Mainly because I don't need to worry about aggro, or shields or debuffs because the team contributes all of that with beam spam. But also because my heavy hitting torps will complement the rest of the team who are providing the continual damage to keep enemies occupied. They might do more damage overall but they can rely on me to come in and end an engagement instantly if I get through those shields.
If you've got a torp boat on your team you know you've got someone who can do some really nice spike damage, the rest of you have just got to work with them. Concentrate on getting a shield facing down and debuffing that boss ship and a torp boat can really get to work on it.
I think this sort of thing could really revitalize build variety to be honest and i do hope the devs will look at it one day.
Imagine if that tetryon build was worth it now because even knocking off half of the enemy's facings with the proc will drop their resistances by half, giving your torp boat buddy a chance to hit them.
Or having a drain boat to take down the enemy power levels and thus their shield's resistances as well, benefiting all the team members.
Lots of really cool stuff could happen.
The current mechanic is a very basic, antiquated way of dealing with shields, a much more dynamic system would really go a long way to improving things I think.
Of course, we'll need a SDO DOff whose proc increases the percentage of shield bypass. Why not make him a Klingon?
Torpedoes, ARE powerful whether shields are up OR down. one only needs to watch THIS: The Battle of Khitomer from ST The Undiscovered Country https://youtube.com/watch?v=VPz-6HuM8Sc
Dev's watch and pay close attention; There should/ought to be very LITTLE (not some stupidly high percentage like 75) "Shield Negation" of Kinetic damage.
But yeah, I've been running mixed builds since day 1 of playing this game. I'm another one who isn't concerned with OP DPS. Annihilating the enemy in one salvo gets boring after awhile when I know that I can outlast them anyway and have a bit of fun while I tear them apart with my (admittedly pathetic compared to dedicated DPSers) weapons.
I play whatever I feel like playing and once in awhile I'll pack up to a 50k shot. Once in awhile. Which is fine with me.
As for torps, most all of these suggestions would be a nice addition.