Rarely have the films ever captured the TV series.
TMP does (due to being a two parter with endless effects shots). I'd also argue that V, VI, and Insurrection also feel like overblown episodes of TNG (I know two are TOS, but I mean in style) similar to the occasional feature length episodes that would be put out towards the later end of the 90s.
But all the other films (excluding IV which is a league of its own) really only work as films and the latest AR films don't really step too far out of this formula. I also don't see the action or cinematography or effects as being out of step either. Just compare how Nemesis is filmed on a technical level compared to TWoK or TUC, it's just the evolution of the cinematic style.
The Franklin is a nice ship. A very clear stage between the NX (and the Warp Delta come to think of it) and the Kelvin.
ENT really is served much better as a prequel to the AR films than it was as a prequel to TOS. This is most apparent from the designs of the hand weapons, uniforms, and starships.
That makes a whole lot of sense. Not that it makes any of the two better, but it makes sense, even from a production standpoint as you'd naturally hook into the most recent installment oif the franchise instead of the first.
If it wasn't for the ENT episode 'In a Mirror Darkly', I'd promote my pet theory to headcanon, that ENT and the AR films take place in the same AR and that Spock and Nero were spun off into an already existing AR created by Romulans in the Temporal Cold War trying to prevent the destruction of Hobus. And yes, I'm aware that would have Romulans from further into the future than Nero creating the past of the reality Nero will land in, but that's how I roll...being the only person in the ST fandom who loves the idea of a Temporal War .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
(...)
I still think back to Abrams' original desire, to create a multi-platform mega-universe (films, TV, web content, games, comics)... oh, what might've been. And, no, it wouldn't have all been like the movies (action first, everything else last).
Maybe that's where they go with the reborn Star Wars universe. And just to add that in regards to JJ Abrams - the new Star Wars movie he directed was extremely good in my opinion. This has nothing to do with "Abrams bashing", there are movies that proof he knows how to do it and given the *right* material the films turn out to be very good. Star Trek however wasn't the right material for him and his vision of things.
Which makes me wonder why it didn't get done that way in Star Trek. If I had to guess, I'd say Paramount said no.
I hate the execution of the Temporal Cold War, and I believe that it was unnecessary for it to make Enterprise "work."
Curious, though... how does "In A Mirror Darkly" ruin that theory, @artan42?
When the ENT Terrans come across the Prime Defiant they access the records of the non-Terran Prime ENT crew. So unless the Prime Archer was captain of the TOS Ent before April there would have to have been the NX-01 and its crew in the Prime Universe.
That information kinda removes the point of my theory which was to remove the fact that ENT produces a huge amount of things that would have an effect, even just in passing dialogue to the other series. Including the existence of the NX-01, Denobulans being a founding race, the Temporal Cold War, the Xindi attack on Earth etc.
So unless there's anyway of explaining away Archer and the NX-01 in the Defiant's databanks there's not really any easy way to keep that theory up and running.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I hate the execution of the Temporal Cold War, and I believe that it was unnecessary for it to make Enterprise "work."
Curious, though... how does "In A Mirror Darkly" ruin that theory, @artan42?
When the ENT Terrans come across the Prime Defiant they access the records of the non-Terran Prime ENT crew. So unless the Prime Archer was captain of the TOS Ent before April there would have to have been the NX-01 and its crew in the Prime Universe.
That information kinda removes the point of my theory which was to remove the fact that ENT produces a huge amount of things that would have an effect, even just in passing dialogue to the other series. Including the existence of the NX-01, Denobulans being a founding race, the Temporal Cold War, the Xindi attack on Earth etc.
So unless there's anyway of explaining away Archer and the NX-01 in the Defiant's databanks there's not really any easy way to keep that theory up and running.
Oh, right, gotcha... the scene where they read Archer's file.
Yeah, damn that scene. It also makes the notion of Archer becoming UFP President canon, IIRC... *shudder*
I remember speculation in the Babylon 5 circles that the Shadows/Vorlon conflict might prove to be two possible futures of humanity come back to a weak point in the timeline where they could insert their forces. Making the war a struggle to ensure their future/philosophy is the path 'present day' humans would eventually take. But once they went back that was it - it was a one time deal, not an endless funnel of forces arriving from the future. Both sides have extremely finite resources and standing orders not to directly smash those resources against the only other player on the field that could fight on an even footing -- unless absolutely necessary to seize the destiny of the human race.
Not how it played out, of course, but Temporal Wars can be an interesting framework if you don't let them run completely amok.
I hate the execution of the Temporal Cold War, and I believe that it was unnecessary for it to make Enterprise "work."
Curious, though... how does "In A Mirror Darkly" ruin that theory, @artan42?
When the ENT Terrans come across the Prime Defiant they access the records of the non-Terran Prime ENT crew. So unless the Prime Archer was captain of the TOS Ent before April there would have to have been the NX-01 and its crew in the Prime Universe.
That information kinda removes the point of my theory which was to remove the fact that ENT produces a huge amount of things that would have an effect, even just in passing dialogue to the other series. Including the existence of the NX-01, Denobulans being a founding race, the Temporal Cold War, the Xindi attack on Earth etc.
So unless there's anyway of explaining away Archer and the NX-01 in the Defiant's databanks there's not really any easy way to keep that theory up and running.
Easy - the adventures of the NX-01 we saw were from the AR version; in the Prime timeline, that NX-01 was captained by a Jonathan Archer who wasn't a xenophobic TRIBBLE, in a world where humans weren't deliberately held back by Vulcans who'd fallen under the sway of secret Romulan agents, and where the Denobulans weren't part of the picture yet. (Also one where Qo'noS isn't in Earth's interstellar backyard, less than five days away at Warp 5.)
I remember speculation in the Babylon 5 circles that the Shadows/Vorlon conflict might prove to be two possible futures of humanity come back to a weak point in the timeline where they could insert their forces. Making the war a struggle to ensure their future/philosophy is the path 'present day' humans would eventually take. But once they went back that was it - it was a one time deal, not an endless funnel of forces arriving from the future. Both sides have extremely finite resources and standing orders not to directly smash those resources against the only other player on the field that could fight on an even footing -- unless absolutely necessary to seize the destiny of the human race.
Not how it played out, of course, but Temporal Wars can be an interesting framework if you don't let them run completely amok.
JMS is a great example, if not the best example, of rolling with what the studio gives you. His clever use of "trap doors" and what not really lent itself to the strength of B5's storytelling. Had they gone down this road, I'm sure it could have worked.
I hate the execution of the Temporal Cold War, and I believe that it was unnecessary for it to make Enterprise "work."
Curious, though... how does "In A Mirror Darkly" ruin that theory, @artan42?
When the ENT Terrans come across the Prime Defiant they access the records of the non-Terran Prime ENT crew. So unless the Prime Archer was captain of the TOS Ent before April there would have to have been the NX-01 and its crew in the Prime Universe.
That information kinda removes the point of my theory which was to remove the fact that ENT produces a huge amount of things that would have an effect, even just in passing dialogue to the other series. Including the existence of the NX-01, Denobulans being a founding race, the Temporal Cold War, the Xindi attack on Earth etc.
So unless there's anyway of explaining away Archer and the NX-01 in the Defiant's databanks there's not really any easy way to keep that theory up and running.
Easy - the adventures of the NX-01 we saw were from the AR version; in the Prime timeline, that NX-01 was captained by a Jonathan Archer who wasn't a xenophobic TRIBBLE, in a world where humans weren't deliberately held back by Vulcans who'd fallen under the sway of secret Romulan agents, and where the Denobulans weren't part of the picture yet. (Also one where Qo'noS isn't in Earth's interstellar backyard, less than five days away at Warp 5.)
There you go - headcanon preserved!
Make that "prime" NX-01 a Daedelus-class, and you got a deal.
I hate the execution of the Temporal Cold War, and I believe that it was unnecessary for it to make Enterprise "work."
Curious, though... how does "In A Mirror Darkly" ruin that theory, @artan42?
When the ENT Terrans come across the Prime Defiant they access the records of the non-Terran Prime ENT crew. So unless the Prime Archer was captain of the TOS Ent before April there would have to have been the NX-01 and its crew in the Prime Universe.
That information kinda removes the point of my theory which was to remove the fact that ENT produces a huge amount of things that would have an effect, even just in passing dialogue to the other series. Including the existence of the NX-01, Denobulans being a founding race, the Temporal Cold War, the Xindi attack on Earth etc.
So unless there's anyway of explaining away Archer and the NX-01 in the Defiant's databanks there's not really any easy way to keep that theory up and running.
Easy - the adventures of the NX-01 we saw were from the AR version; in the Prime timeline, that NX-01 was captained by a Jonathan Archer who wasn't a xenophobic TRIBBLE, in a world where humans weren't deliberately held back by Vulcans who'd fallen under the sway of secret Romulan agents, and where the Denobulans weren't part of the picture yet. (Also one where Qo'noS isn't in Earth's interstellar backyard, less than five days away at Warp 5.)
There you go - headcanon preserved!
But the problem is with the NX-01 in that it was specifically referenced as 'Enterprise' (though not as the NX-01) and I wanted to remove the whole 'missing Enterprise' thing anyway.
I suppose there is no canon date for the Declaration Class Enterprise and we know Vulcans use warp rings throughout their history up to the 31st century, so it's possible that was his ship in the Prime Universe.
Edit: Though I think it was shown on Archer's wall though . Maybe it'll have to be the Constitution and just make the class older than first thought, especially considering it had a refit between the pilots and the main series of TOS.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
No "misssing Enterprise" - the classic numbering has to do with Starfleet ships by that name, and the NX-class were still part of the UESPA (like the SS Valiant, mentioned in the second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before"). It wasn't in the display on the wall of the rec center in TMP because someone overlooked it, probably in the haste to get the ship out of drydock to intercept V'ger.
Easy - the adventures of the NX-01 we saw were from the AR version; in the Prime timeline, that NX-01 was captained by a Jonathan Archer who wasn't a xenophobic TRIBBLE, in a world where humans weren't deliberately held back by Vulcans who'd fallen under the sway of secret Romulan agents, and where the Denobulans weren't part of the picture yet. (Also one where Qo'noS isn't in Earth's interstellar backyard, less than five days away at Warp 5.)
There you go - headcanon preserved!
I wish they would somehow make this official. It would make things much easier and more sense like Archer's by name mentioning in the AR movies whereas he's abscent from the rest of the prime continuity (obviously). So the AR wasn't created by the Narada incident but we merely "entered" it with the Borg incursion. And when the Ent left to the prime timeline we as a audeince got stuck in the AR for ENT, briefly returned for the other movies and got sucked back for the AR movies. Works for me.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Comments
TMP does (due to being a two parter with endless effects shots). I'd also argue that V, VI, and Insurrection also feel like overblown episodes of TNG (I know two are TOS, but I mean in style) similar to the occasional feature length episodes that would be put out towards the later end of the 90s.
But all the other films (excluding IV which is a league of its own) really only work as films and the latest AR films don't really step too far out of this formula. I also don't see the action or cinematography or effects as being out of step either. Just compare how Nemesis is filmed on a technical level compared to TWoK or TUC, it's just the evolution of the cinematic style.
If it wasn't for the ENT episode 'In a Mirror Darkly', I'd promote my pet theory to headcanon, that ENT and the AR films take place in the same AR and that Spock and Nero were spun off into an already existing AR created by Romulans in the Temporal Cold War trying to prevent the destruction of Hobus. And yes, I'm aware that would have Romulans from further into the future than Nero creating the past of the reality Nero will land in, but that's how I roll...being the only person in the ST fandom who loves the idea of a Temporal War
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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My character Tsin'xing
I hate the execution of the Temporal Cold War, and I believe that it was unnecessary for it to make Enterprise "work."
Curious, though... how does "In A Mirror Darkly" ruin that theory, @artan42?
When the ENT Terrans come across the Prime Defiant they access the records of the non-Terran Prime ENT crew. So unless the Prime Archer was captain of the TOS Ent before April there would have to have been the NX-01 and its crew in the Prime Universe.
That information kinda removes the point of my theory which was to remove the fact that ENT produces a huge amount of things that would have an effect, even just in passing dialogue to the other series. Including the existence of the NX-01, Denobulans being a founding race, the Temporal Cold War, the Xindi attack on Earth etc.
So unless there's anyway of explaining away Archer and the NX-01 in the Defiant's databanks there's not really any easy way to keep that theory up and running.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Oh, right, gotcha... the scene where they read Archer's file.
Yeah, damn that scene.
Not how it played out, of course, but Temporal Wars can be an interesting framework if you don't let them run completely amok.
There you go - headcanon preserved!
JMS is a great example, if not the best example, of rolling with what the studio gives you. His clever use of "trap doors" and what not really lent itself to the strength of B5's storytelling. Had they gone down this road, I'm sure it could have worked.
Make that "prime" NX-01 a Daedelus-class, and you got a deal.
But the problem is with the NX-01 in that it was specifically referenced as 'Enterprise' (though not as the NX-01) and I wanted to remove the whole 'missing Enterprise' thing anyway.
I suppose there is no canon date for the Declaration Class Enterprise and we know Vulcans use warp rings throughout their history up to the 31st century, so it's possible that was his ship in the Prime Universe.
Edit: Though I think it was shown on Archer's wall though
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I wish they would somehow make this official. It would make things much easier and more sense like Archer's by name mentioning in the AR movies whereas he's abscent from the rest of the prime continuity (obviously). So the AR wasn't created by the Narada incident but we merely "entered" it with the Borg incursion. And when the Ent left to the prime timeline we as a audeince got stuck in the AR for ENT, briefly returned for the other movies and got sucked back for the AR movies. Works for me.
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