people seem to think that "not being happy members of the Federation" = "being the bad guys" .... hate to break it to you but just because Germany has a different agenda than USA... it doesn't make them "the bad guys" same for KE/RSE. They have different motives, goals, and ideals. This does not make them evil, or incompatible. In fact there is one prominent Klingon featured TOS episode where they work together, go fig. In both of the Romulan episodes they were very carefully painted, not as enemies, but simply a different power with a different perspective and goal.
In many cases, even mentioned in TOS iirc, other governments saw the rapid rise of the UFP and its aggressive expansion as a threat. Hell in "The Enterprise Incident" your glorious good guys order Kirk to violate treaties, conduct espionage and theft. The antagonists there were quite clearly NOT the Romulans.
The point is, In TOS, Both the Klingons and Romulans were nothing more then an Antagonistic character. They existed solely as someone for the Federation (and Kirk more specifically) to fight.
It was not until TNG, That we fleshed out the two as more then just antagonists. I am not sure there is enough to work with to make an active story around TOS Klingons or Romulans. Keep in mind, Cryptic has been adamant about being no "bad guys". So the question is, what would a TOS Romulan especially, look like.
people seem to think that "not being happy members of the Federation" = "being the bad guys" .... hate to break it to you but just because Germany has a different agenda than USA... it doesn't make them "the bad guys" same for KE/RSE. They have different motives, goals, and ideals. This does not make them evil, or incompatible. In fact there is one prominent Klingon featured TOS episode where they work together, go fig. In both of the Romulan episodes they were very carefully painted, not as enemies, but simply a different power with a different perspective and goal.
In many cases, even mentioned in TOS iirc, other governments saw the rapid rise of the UFP and its aggressive expansion as a threat. Hell in "The Enterprise Incident" your glorious good guys order Kirk to violate treaties, conduct espionage and theft. The antagonists there were quite clearly NOT the Romulans.
The point is, In TOS, Both the Klingons and Romulans were nothing more then an Antagonistic character. They existed solely as someone for the Federation (and Kirk more specifically) to fight.
It was not until TNG, That we fleshed out the two as more then just antagonists. I am not sure there is enough to work with to make an active story around TOS Klingons or Romulans. Keep in mind, Cryptic has been adamant about being no "bad guys". So the question is, what would a TOS Romulan especially, look like.
*tortures a starfleet captain for command codes then kills him, then uses said codes to shoot up Utopia Planitia. then fires a few doffs out an air lock for failing him* whats this about cryptic not wanting us to play bad guys.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Isnt it a bit premature to ask this question now as we have no idea just how much is or isnt going to be in the expansion? While I would like to see KDF/rom in the past there is not really enough material to make a proper starter story, so the new arcs which will be introduced for non-TOS is probably the best we can hope for.
Of course if I had to stop geting splinters by sitting on the fence I would answer 'yes' just so that things like this do not exhasterbate the people only play Fed arguments by making more people play Fed and proportionally less play KDF/ROM making us get less content again in future.
people seem to think that "not being happy members of the Federation" = "being the bad guys" .... hate to break it to you but just because Germany has a different agenda than USA... it doesn't make them "the bad guys" same for KE/RSE. They have different motives, goals, and ideals. This does not make them evil, or incompatible. In fact there is one prominent Klingon featured TOS episode where they work together, go fig. In both of the Romulan episodes they were very carefully painted, not as enemies, but simply a different power with a different perspective and goal.
In many cases, even mentioned in TOS iirc, other governments saw the rapid rise of the UFP and its aggressive expansion as a threat. Hell in "The Enterprise Incident" your glorious good guys order Kirk to violate treaties, conduct espionage and theft. The antagonists there were quite clearly NOT the Romulans.
That was the feeling I got from the Romulans and Klingons as well. You know it’s unfortunate that both factions get labeled “the bad guys” because their way of life is not in accordance to what the Federation believes in.
Some factors I would consider is according to Star Trek lore the Klingon and Romulan Empires predate the Federation by a great many years. That for me is that they have been doing business like this for a long time. Their cultures and way of life reflect this, most likely the reason the Klingons have their “honor” philosophy where to die in battle is the goal of every warrior. The Romulans I see as a society more of the “cloak and dagger” types where subtlety is the name of the game. Now a lot of folks would think that is just another way to saying that they are just “sneaky” but it has kept it’s empire together up until Hobus blew up.
We do see some merit in the Romulans in their tactics as shown in the TOS episode “Balance of Terror” the quick hit and fade tactic that they turned into an art form. We also see that the commander of the Romulan ship (portrayed rather well by the actor Mark Lenard) and see he is not some evil warlord but a person that is caught in the middle of his personal honor and the orders that he is given.
I think that story-wise Cryptic could pull it off if they had the time and resources for such an endeavor. I would have loved to have seen Romulas before it’s destruction or to have met Kang and who knows? Maybe that might happen down the road. Regardless of whatever I wrote down now, I am looking forward to the new expansion and hope to have an entertaining time of it.
Sometimes no matter how hard you try to push that square peg it still won't fit into a round hole. And that's what's going on here. The Original Series presented the Klingons and the Romulans as villains. Not "alternatives" to the starfleet mission, but as stock villains. They served a purpose to make themes and develop stories. But they weren't given very many sympathetic qualities. For the Klingons, they didn't really start getting fleshed out as layered and more complex until Praxis blew up.
So if the goal of this expansion is to create a distinct flavor and feeling of nostalgia for what was in the Kirk and Spock centered series, it is very unlikely that they are going to flesh out the Klingons and Romulans as a sympathetic alternative point of view. It goes against the theme of the expansion, at least the TOS focused parts.
As stated above, when you get the temporal part built into it, then you deal with the 28th century and the Klingons and Romulans are a whole other story. Much more layered and complex and sympathetic.
So the question is, what would a TOS Romulan especially, look like.
Well ignoring the limited development they got in Ent and TNG+ We still have two very well made characters, and even a self description of Romulans by one of their own: "Our people are warriors. Often savage. But we are also many other pleasant things."
We know they're Vulcan descended and we know Vulcans resorted to logic because their emotions run deep and hot.
All of that builds off the pseduo-Romans(in SPAAAAAACE) and you can look to History for plenty of plot ideas. The Roman Empire(and Republic) provide scads of plots, that run deep with emotion, involve the military, and "cloak and dagger" themes.
Hell Cryptic could even step out and show the earliest hints at the Tal Shiar becoming the corrupt entity that spawns Ha'skeev.
and thats just with 30s of thought put into this question
So the question is, what would a TOS Romulan especially, look like.
Well ignoring the limited development they got in Ent and TNG+ We still have two very well made characters, and even a self description of Romulans by one of their own: "Our people are warriors. Often savage. But we are also many other pleasant things."
We know they're Vulcan descended and we know Vulcans resorted to logic because their emotions run deep and hot.
All of that builds off the pseduo-Romans(in SPAAAAAACE) and you can look to History for plenty of plot ideas. The Roman Empire(and Republic) provide scads of plots, that run deep with emotion, involve the military, and "cloak and dagger" themes.
Hell Cryptic could even step out and show the earliest hints at the Tal Shiar becoming the corrupt entity that spawns Ha'skeev.
and thats just with 30s of thought put into this question
That's a great idea.
But for a different project.
This project or expansion is trying to serve up a big heaping bowl of vanilla ice cream to the people.
And your idea is an amazing idea to give those same people chocolate ice cream. And is a wonderful way of getting them that chocolate ice cream. But this expansion is still looking to give people vanilla instead.
It’s funny but as I wrote the last time I was thinking as to how the romulans and klingons were portrayed in TOS. Yes at the time they were presented as “the bad guys”. In TNG and the other star trek series they were more fleshed out. From the series that followed after TOS we got a more detailed glimpse into what these two races were all about from their customs to their philosophies that nowadays we have a good idea how a Romulan or a Klingon would customarily act to most situations.
For me that’s more than enough material for any writer to work with. I look at it this way, if we know more about the these two races then we can determine with a better degree of accuracy what they were like in the past or specifically from the TOS era. We know for a fact that they have been around and doing business the same way roughly for a long time and that as a result of it has formed their societies.
The “well they were presented as the Bad Guys in TOS” excuse is true but this is from the perspective of a Federation “view”. I think some out of the box thinking and artistic license would have to be called for in order to make a story as the one presented in the expansion work.
There is plenty of material a writer could use to flesh out the TOS Klingon and Romulan side if some good imagination and a willingness to use all the material that was available for it.
That being said it is totally understandable that the hard work of developing missions, worlds, clothes and weapons from that time would be a huge undertaking for all three factions would make all this something of a pipe dream to see it come to reality. Which is my standpoint is more of the story-side of it than anything else.
"There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
And your idea is an amazing idea to give those same people chocolate ice cream. And is a wonderful way of getting them that chocolate ice cream. But this expansion is still looking to give people vanilla instead.
And none of that has anything to do with ToS, and thus, has nothing to do with a ToS expansion.
That's just fanfiction set after ToS, which obviously wouldn't be covered in a ToS based expansion.
Actually it IS vanilla and TOS but its also only 30s of thought by one man... Cryptic has had at least 18months and a full team.
Just because it aint on the USS Enterprise, doesn't mean it aint TOS.
And your idea is an amazing idea to give those same people chocolate ice cream. And is a wonderful way of getting them that chocolate ice cream. But this expansion is still looking to give people vanilla instead.
And none of that has anything to do with ToS, and thus, has nothing to do with a ToS expansion.
That's just fanfiction set after ToS, which obviously wouldn't be covered in a ToS based expansion.
Actually it IS vanilla and TOS but its also only 30s of thought by one man... Cryptic has had at least 18months and a full team.
Just because it aint on the USS Enterprise, doesn't mean it aint TOS.
Actually, it kind of does. That is the point of all this. This expansion is all about people getting to play in the TOS, That many fans grew up on. And unfortunately, in TOS Klingons and Romulans were not that well developed. So anything you add, is either your own artistic license or extrapolation from TNG era. Not bad, but not the same as giving someone that TOS feel.
No, and I say that as someone who already runs a TOS Klingon, complete with D7.
For starters, Klingon players wanting their TOS fix are already well served. Sure, the Fleet K't'inga is not the best cruiser in game, but it's perfectly adequate. Roms are less well fixed but at least have the T6 T'varo.
Secondly, I'd rather Cryptic produced a well-supported faction rather than token efforts.
It's not easy to answer this question. Should they include them in the way the expansion pans out to be? No, that wouldn't make sense. In principle? Of course. You have a multifaction game, make it multifaction and don't say "it's too much work to make content for all factions" - at that point your game basically failed, shut it down.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's not easy to answer this question. Should they include them in the way the expansion pans out to be? No, that wouldn't make sense. In principle? Of course. You have a multifaction game, make it multifaction and don't say "it's too much work to make content for all factions" - at that point your game basically failed, shut it down.
The the sad truth is it failed from the onset with that promise.
And your idea is an amazing idea to give those same people chocolate ice cream. And is a wonderful way of getting them that chocolate ice cream. But this expansion is still looking to give people vanilla instead.
And none of that has anything to do with ToS, and thus, has nothing to do with a ToS expansion.
That's just fanfiction set after ToS, which obviously wouldn't be covered in a ToS based expansion.
Actually it IS vanilla and TOS but its also only 30s of thought by one man... Cryptic has had at least 18months and a full team.
Just because it aint on the USS Enterprise, doesn't mean it aint TOS.
Nah, it's not the vanilla here. The vanilla in my analogy is 2270 Starfleet. The extension of Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Everything else is added flavor. This project seeks only to capture the plain vanilla flavor.
Your idea's a fine idea. Your idea isn't what they're making. Maybe they will add something like your idea later. Maybe they'll work on something like that separately. That would be vanilla chocolate swirl or Neopolitan.
Right now, they say they're making vanilla.
Balance of Terror is one of my favorite Trek episodes across the entire 50 years. So I'd be interested in them doing more with Romulans from that time period. I just don't think that's going to happen with this project.
Of course they should have included the KDf and Rommies in the Agents of Change Expansion. Just make them bare bones missions. For example, they could have included 5-10 faction specific missions for the rommies and klingons and then the remainder of the missions would have been shared but rounded out with faction specific dialogue options.
Here's why Cryptic's current stance makes no sense to me. They pull support for MAC and then they announce they are releasing STO for xbox one and PS4. At the same time, Agents of Change is announced and the big content pack is unveiled but no trace of Klingon/Romulan ships can be found in the pack nor do we have any indication of Klingon/Romulan mission content, much less playable AOC rommies/klingons.
This begs the question: if you have enough devs for pc, ps4, and xbox one, how is it that you don't have enough devs to support MAC? Secondly, how is it that you have enough devs to support developing new content for consoles yet don't have enough devs to release Klingon/Romulan content for pc?
It's not easy to answer this question. Should they include them in the way the expansion pans out to be? No, that wouldn't make sense. In principle? Of course. You have a multifaction game, make it multifaction and don't say "it's too much work to make content for all factions" - at that point your game basically failed, shut it down.
But that's clearly wrong. Cryptic already said many years ago that making faction-specific content is the way of the dodo. They are not doing it anymore, outside of expansions they cross-finance with expensive ship packages.
Does the game look failed to you, like something you better close? Is that something you actually would want, just because they don't release faction-specific missions anymore? Or isn't it still fun flying around in a Klingon or Romulan ship and blowing up Tholians, Borg, Na'Khul or whatever? Engaging in a little Bat'leth fight? Was it really unenjoyable to see a Klingon officer lead us around Ancient Iconia and find a path to a cease-fire without risking all of history?
Should we really give up all of that just because it's not viable to release constant streams of faction-specific content?
I think not. So I dismiss your claim. Just because a game isn't perfect and we can't get everything doesn't mean we have to give it up. It's not a binary choice.
THIS team could not have managed the task. Parsing Geko's explanation, it is clear that Cryptic does not have the necessary resources to support such an undertaking, and further, lacks the creative freedom to fill in blanks sufficiently to accomplish it.
If this game had 5 times the resources it had, should that really change the faction distribution of content, if the (paying) player distribution for content doesn't change?
I think not. Even if this game would suddenly get 3 times more paying players, that doesn't mean the 2nd and 3rd extra would be wisely spend on Klingon or Romulan content exclusively. No, unless the ratio of faction population remains the same, so will the investment on Cryptic's side. Anything else would be irresponsible.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I`m maining the Romulan faction. Still looking forward to the new TOS themed season.
My answer is YES.
As far as the "story" goes.
In my understanding - the new faction will be nothing else as the "DELTA recruits" we have had a year ago.
Storywise - out new TOS toons will be joining starfleet in the times of Temporal Accord, following a new story arc which will be leading them in to the past.
Hard Facts - Faction based content lost its credibility in STO. Why continue? All in all, why not create a T7 tier of ships, and be one big happy Temporal Accord Family Faction? With fed, rom, kdf THEMED ships and costumes - but without restrictions.
This would also open all the faction specific missions to everybody (as holodeck training) - so one would have a wider palette of experience on ONE toon.
So our Temporal Romulan/Kdf toons could just temporarily change their appearance, travel to past and play through the expansion
If so, the only thing keeping me from buying the pack is the lack of romulan THEMED ships, cause i just love the designs
(this would also bring PROFIT for cryptic - FED players would buy the lower tier KDF/ROM ships with cloaks, for the designs or consoles, plus they would just address everybody as Temporal Accord admiral - no more factions, just themes.. This would also open a way for Cardassian and more playable species in the future )
I really don't know. Going to take the wait and see approach on this one. Who knows, they could expand later and give a little something to the KDF and rommies anyway.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
You have it partially reversed, our TOS faction characters will start in the past and after finishing their faction storyline they will end up in the 25th century.
yeah, so what`s the problem? So a Romulan/Kdf toon plays tutorial, and his first mission after the tutorial will be:
- visited by a temporal agent
- going to the past with a new appearance
- playing the same stuff as fed toons till end of the story
- rejoining the original faction timeline
ROFL This is exactly why the exchange rate has risen so much besides the starbases not really not meaning much to an established player. Those no voters were part of an old collection of players who would use the words pvp and unfair in many sentences over and over again if any development went into the KDF.
As for me no KDF means no TOS expansion which means no profit
As much as I'm all-in for more Romulan content 'cause I love playing my Romulan, the AoY expansion isn't the place for it. This is a specifically TOS story, bringing in some of Kirk's own crew. I wouldn't expect there to be playable Romulans and Klingons - but what I do hope for are awesome encounters with both.
This is a 'faction' that's made to be TOS to the core. This story is about being a Starfleet officer in the style of Kirk's era. Sure there are Romulans and Klingons in that era, but we see so few of them that they're relegated to the 'bad guy of the week' recurring role. That's not a bad thing, that's just the fact of TOS.
I'm a supporter of more faction-specific content elsewhere in the game. But in this 50th anniversary nod to TOS, I'm nothing but massively excited with what's being teasted so far.
ROFL This is exactly why the exchange rate has risen so much besides the starbases not really not meaning much to an established player. Those no voters were part of an old collection of players who would use the words pvp and unfair in many sentences over and over again if any development went into the KDF.
As for me no KDF means no TOS expansion which means no profit
Huh? The amount of Dil required for Zen is RISING by 10%+ because players WANT Zen to buy the expansion. Even though it is Fed.
So the expansion is selling, and the No votes reflect reality. It's the Yes votes that put ideal world wishes ahead of business reality.
Edit: I have 6 KDF and Rom alts. I thoroughly enjoyed the KDF and Rom faction stories. It doesn't bother me that a TOS expansion follows the TOS show by being Federation and only available to new Fed characters.
It wouldn't bother me if Cryptic adopted the idea posted earlier where you could create a new KDF character and have them play through the Federation stories wearing a holo-emitter, I just don't feel cheated or enraged by the lack of this. Thinking about it, they could do a John Varley / "Millennium" intro where you are a KDF / Rom from the TOS era on a ship that is about to be destroyed, when Walker pops up and offers to recruit you into the timey wimey brigade instead of dying.
And your idea is an amazing idea to give those same people chocolate ice cream. And is a wonderful way of getting them that chocolate ice cream. But this expansion is still looking to give people vanilla instead.
And none of that has anything to do with ToS, and thus, has nothing to do with a ToS expansion.
That's just fanfiction set after ToS, which obviously wouldn't be covered in a ToS based expansion.
Actually it IS vanilla and TOS but its also only 30s of thought by one man... Cryptic has had at least 18months and a full team.
Just because it aint on the USS Enterprise, doesn't mean it aint TOS.
Nah, it's not the vanilla here. The vanilla in my analogy is 2270 Starfleet. The extension of Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Everything else is added flavor. This project seeks only to capture the plain vanilla flavor.
Your idea's a fine idea. Your idea isn't what they're making. Maybe they will add something like your idea later. Maybe they'll work on something like that separately. That would be vanilla chocolate swirl or Neopolitan.
Right now, they say they're making vanilla.
Balance of Terror is one of my favorite Trek episodes across the entire 50 years. So I'd be interested in them doing more with Romulans from that time period. I just don't think that's going to happen with this project.
I think the rub here then is "What defines TOS" and for me its not about Starfleet or the ships or the pew pew. TOS was the story, exploring variations on humanity and how we could be better than we are, etc etc etc. Exploring how another species, say Romulan or Klingon goes about X and how they see Y and react to Starfleet can provide a very stark backdrop for that exploration of humanity.
As much as I'm all-in for more Romulan content 'cause I love playing my Romulan, the AoY expansion isn't the place for it. This is a specifically TOS story, bringing in some of Kirk's own crew. I wouldn't expect there to be playable Romulans and Klingons - but what I do hope for are awesome encounters with both.
This is a 'faction' that's made to be TOS to the core. This story is about being a Starfleet officer in the style of Kirk's era. Sure there are Romulans and Klingons in that era, but we see so few of them that they're relegated to the 'bad guy of the week' recurring role. That's not a bad thing, that's just the fact of TOS.
I'm a supporter of more faction-specific content elsewhere in the game. But in this 50th anniversary nod to TOS, I'm nothing but massively excited with what's being teasted so far.
I represent none but my own KDF perspective myself when I agree. There's plenty of fire about the exclusion and I won't argue anyone about it. But back then the Klingons and Romulans were both banes of the quadrant, not the protagonists they both have become. I'm still not too thrilled with this, but I'm not too vehement in opposition either. I'd vote no, but I'd leave out the "!".
I would much prefer the Eternal and the Ouroboros ships be the exception moreso than the rule regarding T6 zen ships from here on out. I do not want this to be the reason and precedent that establishes Klingon ships and warbirds are no longer to be released.
I am keeping a watchful eye for any useful info about the both (moreso the Eternal). If this is the zen ship solution to the science ship problem KDF/Romwise, I'm fine with it. Others won't be, and I won't argue with them either. But this seems like the best time for the Devs to bring a superb science ship to the other two. The Ouroboros also sound like a good oppurtunity for a raider for all factions, and given it's from a future era where all 3 factions are 1, a shipboard battlecloak is a distinct possibility.
Comments
The point is, In TOS, Both the Klingons and Romulans were nothing more then an Antagonistic character. They existed solely as someone for the Federation (and Kirk more specifically) to fight.
It was not until TNG, That we fleshed out the two as more then just antagonists. I am not sure there is enough to work with to make an active story around TOS Klingons or Romulans. Keep in mind, Cryptic has been adamant about being no "bad guys". So the question is, what would a TOS Romulan especially, look like.
*tortures a starfleet captain for command codes then kills him, then uses said codes to shoot up Utopia Planitia. then fires a few doffs out an air lock for failing him* whats this about cryptic not wanting us to play bad guys.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Of course if I had to stop geting splinters by sitting on the fence I would answer 'yes' just so that things like this do not exhasterbate the people only play Fed arguments by making more people play Fed and proportionally less play KDF/ROM making us get less content again in future.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
Sometimes no matter how hard you try to push that square peg it still won't fit into a round hole. And that's what's going on here. The Original Series presented the Klingons and the Romulans as villains. Not "alternatives" to the starfleet mission, but as stock villains. They served a purpose to make themes and develop stories. But they weren't given very many sympathetic qualities. For the Klingons, they didn't really start getting fleshed out as layered and more complex until Praxis blew up.
So if the goal of this expansion is to create a distinct flavor and feeling of nostalgia for what was in the Kirk and Spock centered series, it is very unlikely that they are going to flesh out the Klingons and Romulans as a sympathetic alternative point of view. It goes against the theme of the expansion, at least the TOS focused parts.
As stated above, when you get the temporal part built into it, then you deal with the 28th century and the Klingons and Romulans are a whole other story. Much more layered and complex and sympathetic.
Well ignoring the limited development they got in Ent and TNG+ We still have two very well made characters, and even a self description of Romulans by one of their own: "Our people are warriors. Often savage. But we are also many other pleasant things."
We know they're Vulcan descended and we know Vulcans resorted to logic because their emotions run deep and hot.
All of that builds off the pseduo-Romans(in SPAAAAAACE) and you can look to History for plenty of plot ideas. The Roman Empire(and Republic) provide scads of plots, that run deep with emotion, involve the military, and "cloak and dagger" themes.
Hell Cryptic could even step out and show the earliest hints at the Tal Shiar becoming the corrupt entity that spawns Ha'skeev.
and thats just with 30s of thought put into this question
That's a great idea.
But for a different project.
This project or expansion is trying to serve up a big heaping bowl of vanilla ice cream to the people.
And your idea is an amazing idea to give those same people chocolate ice cream. And is a wonderful way of getting them that chocolate ice cream. But this expansion is still looking to give people vanilla instead.
For me that’s more than enough material for any writer to work with. I look at it this way, if we know more about the these two races then we can determine with a better degree of accuracy what they were like in the past or specifically from the TOS era. We know for a fact that they have been around and doing business the same way roughly for a long time and that as a result of it has formed their societies.
The “well they were presented as the Bad Guys in TOS” excuse is true but this is from the perspective of a Federation “view”. I think some out of the box thinking and artistic license would have to be called for in order to make a story as the one presented in the expansion work.
There is plenty of material a writer could use to flesh out the TOS Klingon and Romulan side if some good imagination and a willingness to use all the material that was available for it.
That being said it is totally understandable that the hard work of developing missions, worlds, clothes and weapons from that time would be a huge undertaking for all three factions would make all this something of a pipe dream to see it come to reality. Which is my standpoint is more of the story-side of it than anything else.
Just because it aint on the USS Enterprise, doesn't mean it aint TOS.
Actually, it kind of does. That is the point of all this. This expansion is all about people getting to play in the TOS, That many fans grew up on. And unfortunately, in TOS Klingons and Romulans were not that well developed. So anything you add, is either your own artistic license or extrapolation from TNG era. Not bad, but not the same as giving someone that TOS feel.
For starters, Klingon players wanting their TOS fix are already well served. Sure, the Fleet K't'inga is not the best cruiser in game, but it's perfectly adequate. Roms are less well fixed but at least have the T6 T'varo.
Secondly, I'd rather Cryptic produced a well-supported faction rather than token efforts.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The the sad truth is it failed from the onset with that promise.
Nah, it's not the vanilla here. The vanilla in my analogy is 2270 Starfleet. The extension of Kirk, Spock and McCoy. Everything else is added flavor. This project seeks only to capture the plain vanilla flavor.
Your idea's a fine idea. Your idea isn't what they're making. Maybe they will add something like your idea later. Maybe they'll work on something like that separately. That would be vanilla chocolate swirl or Neopolitan.
Right now, they say they're making vanilla.
Balance of Terror is one of my favorite Trek episodes across the entire 50 years. So I'd be interested in them doing more with Romulans from that time period. I just don't think that's going to happen with this project.
Here's why Cryptic's current stance makes no sense to me. They pull support for MAC and then they announce they are releasing STO for xbox one and PS4. At the same time, Agents of Change is announced and the big content pack is unveiled but no trace of Klingon/Romulan ships can be found in the pack nor do we have any indication of Klingon/Romulan mission content, much less playable AOC rommies/klingons.
This begs the question: if you have enough devs for pc, ps4, and xbox one, how is it that you don't have enough devs to support MAC? Secondly, how is it that you have enough devs to support developing new content for consoles yet don't have enough devs to release Klingon/Romulan content for pc?
Does the game look failed to you, like something you better close? Is that something you actually would want, just because they don't release faction-specific missions anymore? Or isn't it still fun flying around in a Klingon or Romulan ship and blowing up Tholians, Borg, Na'Khul or whatever? Engaging in a little Bat'leth fight? Was it really unenjoyable to see a Klingon officer lead us around Ancient Iconia and find a path to a cease-fire without risking all of history?
Should we really give up all of that just because it's not viable to release constant streams of faction-specific content?
I think not. So I dismiss your claim. Just because a game isn't perfect and we can't get everything doesn't mean we have to give it up. It's not a binary choice.
If this game had 5 times the resources it had, should that really change the faction distribution of content, if the (paying) player distribution for content doesn't change?
I think not. Even if this game would suddenly get 3 times more paying players, that doesn't mean the 2nd and 3rd extra would be wisely spend on Klingon or Romulan content exclusively. No, unless the ratio of faction population remains the same, so will the investment on Cryptic's side. Anything else would be irresponsible.
My answer is YES.
As far as the "story" goes.
In my understanding - the new faction will be nothing else as the "DELTA recruits" we have had a year ago.
Storywise - out new TOS toons will be joining starfleet in the times of Temporal Accord, following a new story arc which will be leading them in to the past.
Hard Facts - Faction based content lost its credibility in STO. Why continue? All in all, why not create a T7 tier of ships, and be one big happy Temporal Accord Family Faction? With fed, rom, kdf THEMED ships and costumes - but without restrictions.
This would also open all the faction specific missions to everybody (as holodeck training) - so one would have a wider palette of experience on ONE toon.
So our Temporal Romulan/Kdf toons could just temporarily change their appearance, travel to past and play through the expansion
If so, the only thing keeping me from buying the pack is the lack of romulan THEMED ships, cause i just love the designs
(this would also bring PROFIT for cryptic - FED players would buy the lower tier KDF/ROM ships with cloaks, for the designs or consoles, plus they would just address everybody as Temporal Accord admiral - no more factions, just themes.. This would also open a way for Cardassian and more playable species in the future )
yeah, so what`s the problem? So a Romulan/Kdf toon plays tutorial, and his first mission after the tutorial will be:
- visited by a temporal agent
- going to the past with a new appearance
- playing the same stuff as fed toons till end of the story
- rejoining the original faction timeline
As for me no KDF means no TOS expansion which means no profit
This is a 'faction' that's made to be TOS to the core. This story is about being a Starfleet officer in the style of Kirk's era. Sure there are Romulans and Klingons in that era, but we see so few of them that they're relegated to the 'bad guy of the week' recurring role. That's not a bad thing, that's just the fact of TOS.
I'm a supporter of more faction-specific content elsewhere in the game. But in this 50th anniversary nod to TOS, I'm nothing but massively excited with what's being teasted so far.
Huh? The amount of Dil required for Zen is RISING by 10%+ because players WANT Zen to buy the expansion. Even though it is Fed.
So the expansion is selling, and the No votes reflect reality. It's the Yes votes that put ideal world wishes ahead of business reality.
Edit: I have 6 KDF and Rom alts. I thoroughly enjoyed the KDF and Rom faction stories. It doesn't bother me that a TOS expansion follows the TOS show by being Federation and only available to new Fed characters.
It wouldn't bother me if Cryptic adopted the idea posted earlier where you could create a new KDF character and have them play through the Federation stories wearing a holo-emitter, I just don't feel cheated or enraged by the lack of this. Thinking about it, they could do a John Varley / "Millennium" intro where you are a KDF / Rom from the TOS era on a ship that is about to be destroyed, when Walker pops up and offers to recruit you into the timey wimey brigade instead of dying.
I think the rub here then is "What defines TOS" and for me its not about Starfleet or the ships or the pew pew. TOS was the story, exploring variations on humanity and how we could be better than we are, etc etc etc. Exploring how another species, say Romulan or Klingon goes about X and how they see Y and react to Starfleet can provide a very stark backdrop for that exploration of humanity.
I represent none but my own KDF perspective myself when I agree. There's plenty of fire about the exclusion and I won't argue anyone about it. But back then the Klingons and Romulans were both banes of the quadrant, not the protagonists they both have become. I'm still not too thrilled with this, but I'm not too vehement in opposition either. I'd vote no, but I'd leave out the "!".
I would much prefer the Eternal and the Ouroboros ships be the exception moreso than the rule regarding T6 zen ships from here on out. I do not want this to be the reason and precedent that establishes Klingon ships and warbirds are no longer to be released.
I am keeping a watchful eye for any useful info about the both (moreso the Eternal). If this is the zen ship solution to the science ship problem KDF/Romwise, I'm fine with it. Others won't be, and I won't argue with them either. But this seems like the best time for the Devs to bring a superb science ship to the other two. The Ouroboros also sound like a good oppurtunity for a raider for all factions, and given it's from a future era where all 3 factions are 1, a shipboard battlecloak is a distinct possibility.