I thought you said earlier upthread that your ship traded a Science Console (-1) for a Tactical Console (+1). Other than that, I'm envious of your greater resources to advance your gear so quickly(?). Also really cool that you're getting [DrainX]x2 out of your Deflector like that.
Just remember that if you ever feel like going for a "more Klingon" flavor to your weapons, you can always invest in Polarized Disruptor Turrets (although you'd have to switch your Tactical Consoles to support Disruptor rather than Polaron Damage).
@autumnturning
I hadn't used the Kamarag in about a year. Which is why I made the mistake on Consoles. As to the Fleet gear, it is what I have. So, I have to come as I am, rather than as I'd like to. I have been playing this game since February of 2012. I do not have access to things you do not (Except for the Red Matter Capacitor maybe). I just have more of the resources you have access to due to playing for so long.
I have never had any luck at all with Polarized Disruptors. Others can get them to work miracles. All I've ever been able to do was scratch the paint on a target. And next be promptly blown out of the stars.
@mneme0
I am not registered at STO Academy, and I've no interest in registering there, either. So I cannot offer feedback because I cannot see your build. Nor am I registered over on Reddit. So something posted there I cannot see either. Reason? I'm not one of the 'cool kids'.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Nitpick ... you've got a Singularity Core in a Starfleet ship.
Splitting the Terran and Dominion sets like that to make up for the loss of a 4th Science Console is an interesting variation. I like the 3 piece Set Bonus for the Terran and Solanae Sets too much to take such an option myself.
Gravimetric Torpedoes are just something that, in my opinion, belong on Exotic Particle/Torpedo builds, which can enhance both ends of the Gravimetric. On a drain boat like this, you can't chase drain AND exotic (all that effectively) at the same time. You have to pick one or the other. Trust, me ... I WANT to put the Gravimetric Set into anything Dyson related! But ultimately, it just becomes a bridge too far in my experience. That's why I went more for the Drain/Torpedo combination instead.
Gravimetrics can do jaw dropping things when supported by plenty of Exotic Particle Expertise, the Science R&D Trait, Gravity Well I (or III) and Torpedo Spread III in PvE. I know ... I do it all the time with my Enhanced Battle Cloak Torpedo Boats (Kor and Malem, specifically) ... and I just make entire clusters of opposition chain react like popcorn. It's glorious! But without that kind of dedicated backing and support, those Gravimetric torpedoes just aren't going to be doing as much for you as they could be otherwise. Now, to be fair, the Polaron procs are probably going to be dropping shields for you, so you'll be able to get some good hits in with the Gravimetric, but that requires a bit of either lucky timing or manual shooting.
For Bridge Officers, I'm a little surprised at your choices. For one thing, I'd consider Rapid Fire to be the most easily dropped skill, rather than Tactical Team. In practice, all Rapid Fire does is make 4 volleys take 8.8 seconds instead of 12 seconds. That's basically +1 volley of fire over the 10 second duration. Not exactly inspiring. I'm using it mainly as a "switch off" with Scatter Volley so as to proc the Deft Cannoneer Trait and perform tighter turns. That way, I can switch between them every 15 or so seconds without worrying about it too much.
With a Gravity Well in the mix, I'd be tempted to go for:
Tactical Team I
Torpedo High Yield I, Cannon Scatter Volley I, Torpedo Spread III
That would then let you "scoop up" a pile of Foes and hit them all with a pile of Gravimetrics which then all proc Rifts in a confined space with plenty of overlap to amp up the damage throughput of the entire affair. It's what I do on my Torpedo Boats (from Cloak).
I'm a little surprised you aren't using the Intelligence seat for Intelligence Skills. Bare minimum, I would have picked up Viral Impulse Burst I. Why? Because it sets Weapon, -> SHIELD <- and Aux Power to 25 (and Impulse to 125) ... and you're flying a DRAIN Boat! Meaning that if you're getting -25/+25 Power out of your Plasmonic Leech through your energy weapons (never mind the procs), that's a guaranteed shield drop (and weapons offline and aux shutdown) for 6 seconds right there ... with an Ensign skill, a Plasmonic Leech Console and a pile of Turrets. Use that to set up Gravimetric on Hull shots, just by being within 5 km and flying in the right direction. It also gives you a defensive option of forcing Foes to disengage so as to give yourself some needed time to recover if you're being hard pressed and taking way too much fire. And Ionic Turbulence I (first) plus Gravity Well I -OR- Tyken's Rift I (after) would seem to be a damage multiplier option, not just from the skills themselves but from what the reduced Defense of your Foes will do to the Accuracy Overflow coming out of your weapons ... especially if you've got Control Amplification or Drain Infection (which apparently you do).
So decent looking build, but you might want to keep tweaking and experimenting here and there.
Interesting choice to have Energy Weapon Officers speeding up the Singularity Charge on a Starfleet ship.
Just got done swapping out all the Polaron Turrets for the following:
Chronometric Polaron Heavy Turret Mk XII
Vaadwaur Polaron Turret Mk XII (Various Mods due to selection available on the Exchange. However all have at least one [Acc])
As I suspected, the Vaadwaur Polaron looks and sounds much nicer. The reduction in shield hardness they bring means what shields the target can bring back up are much softer and easier to penetrate. Adding the Chronometric turret gives the two piece bonus. Which is Cyclical Auxiliary Circuits. My Aux Power comes back up faster. Since I am trying to be a Torp/Drain Boat, this is important. The build itself is still slightly squishy and If I use the CSV I or either of my CC abilities, I draw aggro like nobody's business. Drawing aggro this way means I need to watch my Hull a bit more than I want to. Shields seem to need only the occasional tap on Redistribute or EPtS.
EDIT: Going to go try this out by running the Tau Dewa Dailies. Consistent enemy NPCs allow for experimentation in activation order to see what works best and how. Further, without contributions from other players I can get a better feel for what the build is actually doing.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Actually the reason I'm not using intel skills is that until yesterday the skill planner did not have Mirror Guardians, which are command ships rather than intel ships but otherwise identical. I have not yet switched my build over. If I was using a regular Guardian I would absolutely throw OSS1 and probably Ionic Turbulence in there as well. It being a command ship, I at times use Concentrate Firepower as an excuse to skip THY.
Noted on the Singularity Core. Can you tell which faction is my favorite?
The singularity charge BOFFs are actually buff-strip BOFFs because those are not yet listed on the site.
I love TS3 and will see about switching them. I was using CRF because I have the extend CRF on crit hit trait from the Jem'Hadar strike ship.
I will see about switching the torpedo back to the Quantum or the Neutronic and just leave the Grav on my pure proton Dyson ship (build coming soon).
@thunderfoot006 You should not need to be registered to see builds. I only registered recently myself but could see builds before that.
Swapped out the Dyson set for the full phase set. I used the Quantum beam because the cruiser can't carry DHCs for some reason, and I wanted the full Quantum set because the beam also procs the Quantum set's shield drain and also because with as much drainx as I've got it would be a shame not to use the Big Blue Beam of Badass that comes with it. I know this is probably not a mathematically sound decision.
At ESD I have:
Acc: 38.8%
CrtH: 14.1%
CrtD: 55.0%
DrainX: 500
EPG: 150
EPS: 150
Plasmonic Leech: +-5.2
@autumnturning why don't you have Omega Graviton Pulse Module as one of your rep traits? its chance to proc is per shot, not per volley; an added 751 or so damage may not look like much, but with THAT many shots being put out....
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
@autumnturning why don't you have Omega Graviton Pulse Module as one of your rep traits? its chance to proc is per shot, not per volley; an added 751 or so damage may not look like much, but with THAT many shots being put out....
I've given it SERIOUS consideration! The thing is, I like using my Science Skills more often than I like getting extra damage out of the Graviton Pulse Trait. With my build as is, I can cycle 2 Torpedo Skills within 30 seconds ... which with Astrometric Synergy represents a whopping -18 seconds to Tyken's Rift and Gravity Well, which gets them both really close to global cooldowns (over time) given everything else. I suppose I could drop the Radiant Explosion proc for Graviton Pulse, but that's part of the Buff Stripping secondary focus of the build I've got going, which also has a small AoE built into it. So it's really a toss up/personal preference as to which one to go for there (I picked the Iconian Trait, obviously).
If I wasn't doing a Buff Stripping secondary focus, I'd drop the Iconian Trait (and the Energy Weapon Officers) in favor of Graviton Pulse and do something else with those three Duty Officer slots. Again, plenty of room for variations on the theme that I've outlined and demonstrated.
Hmmm...The vaadwaur turrets hit harder but the thoron infused turrets crit more often. Since I am running this ship as a faux Science vessel, I am genuinely torn about which set to mount.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Hmmm...The vaadwaur turrets hit harder but the thoron infused turrets crit more often. Since I am running this ship as a faux Science vessel, I am genuinely torn about which set to mount.
This thread has me hoping for some focus on the dominion, so that dominion polaron turrets could become a thing.
Just got done swapping out all the Polaron Turrets for the following:
Chronometric Polaron Heavy Turret Mk XII
Vaadwaur Polaron Turret Mk XII (Various Mods due to selection available on the Exchange. However all have at least one [Acc])
When I was researching Turrets for my build, I noticed the Chronometric and Vaadwaur Polarons ... and noticed almost as quickly that they ditch the Drain proc in favor of Shield Weakening. Personally, I'd rather turn the shields OFF entirely, by draining all Power, rather than just making the shields "squishy" and burning through them. The proc chances are the same either way (2.5%) but draining all Power out of ship "parks" them and ruins their Defense, making my Accuracy Overflow even more potent at delivering Critical Hits.
But hey, if it makes you happy (and it works) ... go for it!
I was using CRF because I have the extend CRF on crit hit trait from the Jem'Hadar strike ship.
Oh, well ... if you've got the trait to extend Rapid Fire, by all means, use Rapid Fire. You'll get off 6 salvos in 13.2 seconds, instead of 6 salvos in 18 seconds. That's a +36% DPS increase just from the rate of fire alone, thanks to the longer duration you get with the Trait.
Hmmm...The vaadwaur turrets hit harder but the thoron infused turrets crit more often. Since I am running this ship as a faux Science vessel, I am genuinely torn about which set to mount.
How do you figure that? I'm not seeing anything in the Thoron Infused mods that indicates they ought to be inflicting critical hits more often than comparable alternatives. They also don't proc for drain, since they instead proc for Radiation and Placate (and [CrtX] penalties). All other factors being equal, I'd expect the Thoron Infused weapons to critically hit at the same rate (over infinite time) as other weapon types, provided there isn't a drain proc in play in the comparison (since that crashes $Target Defense and makes Accuracy Overflow more of a factor).
I am not doing anything scientific or testing rigorously to destruction. Nor am I theorycrafting or any of those other things people do when they try to figure out how something affects the damage output of some other thing. Most of the Tooltips in this game lie more expertly than politicians. Then, the Devs use smoke and mirrors to obfuscate and muddy things even more.
"Difficult to see, the truth is." To paraphrase one of my favorite philosophers.
I am simply observing what I see on the screen and thinking about it. And upon review, I think I'll keep the Thoron-Infused Polarons mounted. Because they do make everything stop where it is more often. And if it ain't movin' an' its got no power, it is a target instead of a threat.
I am not a DPS guy. Nor do I use CLR or anything like that. I do have the little green numbers and words flying off my target when I shoot it turned on. Words like "Critical", "Flank", "Immune", and "Miss" are really easy to spot amongst the ribbon of numbers flowing upwards off the target when I press the space bar.
Here. Maybe this will explain it better. Warning! This is about 3.75 minutes long. Before you commit to using the time out of your life, make sure you want to. I cannot give time back, lol.
I see that you're sometimes managing to "switch off" the shields like I'm accustomed to seeing, but that in your case it's purely a result of using the Neutronic Torpedo combined with the Plasmonic Leech Drain. It isn't happening because of a Polaron drain proc. So it does happen, but not as frequently as I'm usually seeing with either crafted [Rapid] or Protonic Polarons.
It's hard to tell, but I suspect the Placate procs on the Thorons are having an ... intriguing ... effect on the flow of battle which is really hard to quantify and reduce down to a spreadsheet analysis. It's something you "feel" more than something you can examine. Bare minimum, it's interesting to see the "sickly yellow gold" bolts that they throw, since I'm now more accustomed to seeing the bluish/indigo/purple of Protonic Turrets now. Also really cool to see how maneuverable your ship is in comparison to my "lumbering" Cruiser that "turns" like a ... um ... turn based strategy game (or worse, PBEM).
I mean, sometimes I feel like this is the true theme song for Starfleet Cruisers ...
@autumnturning:
I wonder if the differences you posted are simply caused by BOff and DOff abilitites? I used the DOffs I have rather than spend the hideous amounts of EC it would cost me to get the ones you suggested. Along with having Fleet gear mounted rather than the Terran Space Set. Still, this is a viable build in PvE and for playing STFs. It is one which I never would have thought of without your original post on the subject. Further, it has gotten me to think upon other builds of similar intent. Like tactical carriers with ENG captains which use this build.
So thanks for watching the video and if you saw something I could be doing better, please do not hesitiate to suggest it.
One more thing: The turning ability you envy comes mostly from the Impulse engines I mounted and one RCS Conductive Accelerator which I managed to turn gold while upgrading. I take either one off and I.K.S. One Thousand Paper Cuts can take half a map and all day to turn with the best of them. Klingon cruisers do turn better than Starfleet ones. But without assistance it is not that much better.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I am not doing anything scientific or testing rigorously to destruction. Nor am I theorycrafting or any of those other things people do when they try to figure out how something affects the damage output of some other thing.
Since I parse, I can try and do some testing, just for data collecting purposes. Right now I've got that one parse, at 19.5k and a few others that are in the 13k range. But I'll start anew. Just do like 5 to 10 parses with one setup. And then 5 to 10 with another. Problem is I don't have access to the Protonic Polarons yet on my klingon.
This type of exercise, to me at least, is what a parsing tool is really for. Comparing gear, and making build choices. The uh, competition part is the part that gets all the discussion going on. But the data collection is far more valuable. Essentially I'd like to see what the difference is between a couple of different types of items. Like Rapid Polarons, Protonic Polarons, and so forth.
I hear ya, mate. All that cooing over someone's epeen score was an annoyance the first time I saw it. It has not gotten any better through the years either.
Most of my testing consists of running something which is easily repeatable and using my judgement as to whether or not the NPC's health bar is going down fast enough to suit me. All of the measurements I use are highly subjective and tend to vary from day to day. If I shoot and it dies fast enough, what I am using is good to go. 'Nuff said.
This thread has been full of good things. It proves once again simply copying someone else's build without knowing the why behind it isn't the best idea. Best part was when autumnturning gave his reasons in the OP. Quality stuff which is hard to find around here any more. The little bit I know about STO I know because I went and played it. Rather than simply copying someone's stuff and hoping for the best. I have a Fleet Mogai all kitted out in Nukara Rep stuff. Went into an STF where someone else flying a Scimi immediately started talking bad about my 'n00b' build. at then end of the STF, one of his buddies shared with. It was quite satisfying to see my 'n00b' build came in second in DPS and total damage. Mr. Scimitard was dead last. At about 4500 DPS. Didn't say anything to the kid but damn, I surely wanted to.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Since I parse, I can try and do some testing, just for data collecting purposes. Right now I've got that one parse, at 19.5k and a few others that are in the 13k range. But I'll start anew. Just do like 5 to 10 parses with one setup. And then 5 to 10 with another. Problem is I don't have access to the Protonic Polarons yet on my klingon.
This type of exercise, to me at least, is what a parsing tool is really for. Comparing gear, and making build choices. The uh, competition part is the part that gets all the discussion going on. But the data collection is far more valuable. Essentially I'd like to see what the difference is between a couple of different types of items. Like Rapid Polarons, Protonic Polarons, and so forth.
If you catch me this afternoon while I'm playing, we could team up and go hit either the Badlands or some Na'Kuhl (or whatever) to give you some data collection. Check your PM slot for details.
Most of my testing consists of running something which is easily repeatable and using my judgement as to whether or not the NPC's health bar is going down fast enough to suit me. All of the measurements I use are highly subjective and tend to vary from day to day. If I shoot and it dies fast enough, what I am using is good to go. 'Nuff said.
Same here. It basically comes down to making progress "fast enough" to be satisfying. Against most things, this Pressure build works for that, without being built so tightly that you can't change things up and try out different stuff. There's no "Right Answer" that makes for a perfected cookie cutter, but rather a plethora of "Good Answers" that can work differently for different people with different playstyles.
It proves once again simply copying someone else's build without knowing the why behind it isn't the best idea. Best part was when autumnturning gave his reasons in the OP. Quality stuff which is hard to find around here any more.
It's one thing to say "I did *blah*" without explaining, and something else again to say "I did *blah* BECAUSE ..." and then lay out your reasoning for analysis and peer review. The former doesn't TEACH you anything, it's just an example of how to do something that someone else did (so you do it too?). The latter though gets into the combination of wisdom, intellect, experience and experimentation that lies behind WHY you'd do something the way you did. The latter shows you the SHAPES of the bits and pieces and explains how they fit together, and why the way they fit together the way they do is a useful (let alone superior) configuration. That leads to both understanding and curiosity for what ELSE can be done, other than the example provided ... which as far as I'm concerned is all the to good, and a testament to the creative impulses of this community for taking ideas and making them your own.
I wasn't trying to promote "cookie cutter-ism" with this thread. Instead, I wanted to push the boundaries of the conventional wisdom when it comes to What Is Successful in terms of being able to play the game. Right now, drain builds are out of favor. Pressure builds are out of favor. Cannon builds are out of favor. They don't exploit the current game meta to the maximum extent possible, to yield the highest parses possible ... and yet ... they do have a "logic" all of their own, that requires functionally "inverting" a lot of the Conventional Wisdom to reach and discover an island of possibilities hidden in a sea of discarded and long since abandoned choices and options. Like I said up front, I think I might have stumbled onto an Alternative Meta for how to play the game, one which can synergize with and augment(!) the currently prevailing Game Meta in unusual ways.
So in that respect, if I'd found "a new way to play" (like I think I have), it would be the height of selfishness to keep it all to myself and not share it with everyone and find out if it works for more people than just me.
You're posting my point, lol. 'Thinking outside the box' is something which game information available at the touch of a button or two discourages. There is far too much "Everyone knows...roll eyes...blah blah blah..." around this game and not nearly enough Rikki Tikki Tavi. Who was well known for the idea of run and find out for yourself.
You've discovered or rediscovered some things a lot of players have forgotten or never knew. I am not looking down at them. As long as they are having fun playing STO with a cookie cutter build, they are playing the game successfully. They are winning, as it were.
But as yourself, I am unsatisfied with being just another really big ship sporting Mega Oblivion Quad Beam Banks Mk XX who waltzes in and lays waste to yet another STF in less than thirty seconds. Yeah, it's fun sometimes. But going against the stream is a lifelong habit with me. Your pressure build works. Now because it works, I am curious to see if I can make it work with a different ship. Or with different weapons. And so on.
So in a way I am exploring. And in the end, I'll know a bit more. Now where did I place that KDF T6 tactical carrier? Wanna find out if I can make an all turret drain/torp build which will support my fighters by allowing them to administer the coup de grace. Gonna be fun to find out, ain't it?
Post edited by thunderfoot#5163 on
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
To the OP. I'd like to have you bring this build into HSE with the Aggronauts and myself. If this is as effective as you describe....:-) @odenknight in game.
PS: I also suspect that the Protonic polaron proc has an internal cooldown like the phaser proc does. Like you said, it's icing on the cake, but that should be fixed like ProbManip needs to be fixed.
Three changes. Just three. Suddenly, a ship which had been decent turns into a killing machine which appears to be unstoppable and takes out entire waves of ships with ease. Sometimes you have to go back to go forward. I changed out the Thoron-Infused Polarons for ordinary, every day ones. Next, I changed out the Spire Tactical Consoles for regular Phase Modulators. Lastly, I changed out the Zero Point Console for a Tachyokinetic Converter.
I have never before done this kind of damage this fast.
Post edited by thunderfoot#5163 on
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
With apologies for double posting, I present the beta 0.9 version of my FT5-U Kamarag. While I think it can be improved to perform better, I am very happy with how it plays right now. Only changes I am currently planning are Upgrading everything to Mk XIV and those listed in the Notes after each entry.
**Ship Information**
Name: I.K.S. wa'SanID nav pe'(One Thousand Paper Cuts)
Class: Fleet Kamarag Battle Cruiser Retrofit (T5-U)
Intended Role: Thinking outside the box when it comes to ship loadouts and capabilities. Inspired by autumnturning.
Commanding Officer: Dahar Master Cha Herom
Career: Science
Faction: Klingon Defense Force
Species: Lethean
Primary Specialization: Intelligence
Secondary Specialization: Pilot
Notes: Haven't tried finding the optimum specialization combination yet.
Ship Loadout - Final?
Fore Weapons
Neutronic Torpedo Launcher Mk XIV(VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Aft Weapons
Quantum Phase Torpedo Launcher Mk XIV(VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Notes: Sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward. Basic Polarons work better so far.
I purchased the [Acc]x2[Dmg] Delta Rep turrets which may have been a mistake.
Notes: Fleet gear may outperform Terran Rep gear. Unknown at present. Terran Set arrives next Tuesday, lol.
I've had no problems with keeping hull and shields up against NPCs so far.
Devices
Subspace Field Modulator
Temporal Negotiator
Red Matter Capacitor
Notes: Batteries work well here as well. Tested them with only some loss of capability.
Notes: If I swap out the leech for a Zero-Point Console drain goes to 430 but power levels drop to around 100 and stay there. Since I have an [AMP] Warp Core, I am keeping the leech.
Science Consoles
Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XIV [DrainX]x2(UR)
Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XIV [DrainX]x2(UR)
Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XIV [DrainX]x2(UR)
Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XIV [DrainX]x2(UR)
Notes: Had two Mk XIV Vulnerability Exploiters here. So when I landed a hit, it really did hit.
I know CRTH should be on Consoles rather than weapons. Currently unable to purchase Vulnerability Locators.
May put the Exploiters back on later.
Bridge Officers
Universal/Tactical (VR Lethean): Torpedo: High Yield I | Cannon: Rapid Fire I
Tactical (VR Lethean): Torpedo: Spread I | Cannon: Scatter Volley I
Tactical (VR Lethean): Tactical Team I
Engineering (VR Lethean): Engineering Team I | Emergency Power to Shields II | Emergency Power to Weapons III | Eject Warp Plasma III
Science (VR Lethean): Science Team I | Tyken's Rift I | Gravity Well I
Duty Officers
(VR) Energy Weapons Officer - Chance to reduce the recharge time when using cannon special attacks
(VR) Projectile Weapons Officer - Chance to reduce the reload time when using torpedoes (Law from Nimbus III)
(VR) Warp Core Engineer - Chance of temporarily improving your ship power on the use of any Emergency Power ability
(VR) Development Lab Scientist - Recharge time reduced for Science Team and Buff
(VR) Gravimetric Scientist - Chance to create an aftershock Gravity Well
Notes: I cannot get the aftershock Tyken's to fire, no matter what I try.
This is more probably related to something I am doing rather than a problem with the game.
Switched to aftershock Gravity Well because it does fire.
Post edited by thunderfoot#5163 on
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
To @odenknight ... we've got to stop meeting like this. First it was over a Recommendation for Complimentary Torpedo Flight Speeds (which got a glorious Sisko Rant on THE SHOW, no less!) ... and now this. If we keep this up, Timberwolf (or worse, Captain SOB) might start to suspect something ... like, I dunno ... collusion ... or something ...
I'd like to have you bring this build into HSE with the Aggronauts and myself. If this is as effective as you describe....:-) @odenknight in game.
More than happy to oblige, although you'll need to "carry" me as I am sub-par geared for HSE (as you could see above). However, as "fire support" where my role is to "aid and abet" what the Team is doing, an HSE would probably make for a very decent test, since the longer survival times will yield more opportunities for my Buff Stripping procs to manifest and change the flow of battle (hopefully). It's also been an excessively long time since I've run a Hive Space (anything) so I'll be a bit rusty on the tactics and strategies needed.
However, if I can play "wingman" to a Torpedo Boat driver and wreak merry havoc on Power Levels to set up lots of torpedo meets hull events, I might be able to pull my own weight (without producing massive DPS myself). I'll send you a Friend request this afternoon during my lunch break and will be online in the evenings by 1030p EDT (I'm figuring you're busy on Wednesdays ), just in case you want to schedule anything with your friends (and run a parse for the trip). Something that I would consider an interesting thing to see, if you can tease it out of the parser, would be to determine if my build being in the mix significantly/measurably reduces the amount of damage needed to be done to targets in order to pressure them to destruction. Reason being is that if that's true, then my build would be "debuffing survival" of hostiles, as opposed to more directly "debuffing shields/hull" in the more conventionally measured way (because drains simply don't parse at all, to my knowledge, unlike damage).
You wouldn't happen to know anyone who likes to fly Torpedo Boats in HSE that I could partner with, would you?
PS: I also suspect that the Protonic polaron proc has an internal cooldown like the phaser proc does. Like you said, it's icing on the cake, but that should be fixed like ProbManip needs to be fixed.
Only way to know is to have hyper-competent people (like yourself and the Aggronauts and r/stobuilds folk) capturing the parse data and then analyzing it afterwards to yield behavioral explanations for what might actually be happening "under the hood" in the game mechanics.
Three changes. Just three. Suddenly, a ship which had been decent turns into a killing machine which appears to be unstoppable and takes out entire waves of ships with ease.
I could be wrong, but I thought that was the point of flying with the KDF ...
Sometimes you have to go back to go forward. I changed out the Thoron-Infused Polarons for ordinary, every day ones.
Conventional wisdom holds that the proc on Thoron-Infused Polarons is inferior to that of Power Draining Polarons, regardless of flavor. In this case, I think the conventional wisdom is right ...
Next, I changed out the Spire Tactical Consoles for regular Phase Modulators.
Last time I looked, you don't "lose" any +Damage with Spire Tactical Consoles (Locators/Exploiters) ... but you do "lose" +Damage for your main damage type if using Auto-Locators bought out of the Reputation Store, as opposed to buying from the Fleet Spire NPC Vendor.
Zero-Point Energy Conduit
+1.8 Power to all subsystems, +19.7 Starship Drain Expertise, +1.8% Critical Chance
Is the major advantage for your build the extra Turn Rate and Control? That would give you bigger Gravity Wells and bring your Torpedoes to bear more quickly. Note that you might get more Control, Critical H+D and Weapon Power out of an Assimilated Module, even if you aren't using an Omega Torpedo to go with it (for the 2 piece set bonus).
Then again, dropping the Quantum Phase Torpedo and Zero-Point Energy Conduit in favor of an Assimilated Module and Omega Torpedo could yield yet another interesting variation, because ...
Set 2: Omega Weapon Amplifier
On hit with any energy weapon, 2.5% chance: to self: Applies Omega Weapon Amplifier:
+10 Current Weapon Power
+500 Current Weapon Power Resistance Rating for 3 sec
+500 Maximum Weapon Power Resistance Rating for 3 sec
Not per salvo with any energy weapon ... ON HIT with any energy weapon ... proc for "Overcap Your Weapon Power Now" for 3 seconds ... which just so happens to be the length of a Turret salvo. Hmmm ...
And use of High Yield (higher ranks are better, obviously) with the Omega Torpedo results in ...
Hmm. Maybe my char is influencing the Tachyokinetic Converter. Just checked it and these are the values it was showing while in orbit over Qo'NoS and mounted.
Trying to be a drain/torp build and not be out in front of everyone else. Yup, that's me flying wingman. Let me pop a Grav Well on that cluster of nasty Na'kuhl and then the both of us will fire off every torpedo we can. Since on the way in, we drained them of power and they have no shielding.
In the Final? build posted above, CrtH is about 9% and CrtD is about 111.4% There probably needs to be a little tweaking somewheres. But I am into diminishing returns and dangerously close to becoming a min/maxer, lol. I just want to drive the ship, not turn wrenches on it in the garage for somebody else, lol. So, I am thinking seriously about calling it done and not worrying with it anymore. Except for the changes posted in the Final? build previously.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I have a question on rear torps, do you actually fire them off enough to make them more effective than another turret in back that can proc? Or are turn rates generally slow enough that you want that torpedo? Also currently I have Intel on my beam boat, and I love flanking. But command seems like it will really help torpedoes, any insight here?
I have a question on rear torps, do you actually fire them off enough to make them more effective than another turret in back that can proc? Or are turn rates generally slow enough that you want that torpedo? Also currently I have Intel on my beam boat, and I love flanking. But command seems like it will really help torpedoes, any insight here?
Speaking just for myself, yes, I find my build firing them often enough to appreciate having something on the Aft arc. Maybe not on all maps and situations, but often enough to make a difference. Primarily that's because I've got Improved Pedal to the Metal and like to stay at 100% throttle as much as possible, so I'm constantly moving around the battlefield, meaning that my engagements are more of a Run & Gun type affair than they are of a Park & Siege. Also, given the ... frequency ... with which I'm dropping shields due to drains and procs, being able to land torpedoes onto unshielded hull makes for good opportunity shots which would otherwise be missed.
When I was running the Badlands for Gravimetrics to build my Terran Space Set, there were numerous times where I'd be playing "shepherd" to the orbiting satellite, and I'd be dropping to 50-75% throttle to fly in formation with its movements, allowing everyone else to fly freely while capture progress continued. In those circumstances, the Terran Nebulas would rarely spawn in my front arc and would more often be in my rear arc, and because I was flying in formation with the satellite (baby sitting it to completion) I couldn't maneuver to bring a different arc to bear. So in those situations, I was very happy to have an aft torpedo to "spike" something that would otherwise only be susceptible to "pressure" from the Turrets.
Sort of the same deal when fighting the Crystalline Cataclysm Advanced event. There is a LOT of damage getting tossed around by the Entity and by the Tholians/Terrans on that map, and I find it necessary to turn a lot to present different shields (while constantly balancing them to get the regen on ALL shields working to my advantage) and because of this having both fore and aft torpedoes, rather than fore only, tends to be an advantage. For one thing, it makes it easier to determine which torpedo is going to get the benefits of my Tactical Skills while keeping them on autofire. This then makes it a simpler case of thinking one (or two) steps ahead. If I need to drain power, use the forward torpedo, and if I want to smack shields (all simultaneously) then use the aft torpedo. The difference is that High Yield with the Quantum Phase will heal the shields of allies, so this is a non-trivial consideration and more of a tactical one.
Since the Turrets are all 360, it doesn't matter if they're placed Fore or Aft, but it does for the Torpedo Launchers. Since I don't keep things in my forward arc only, I personally prefer the Fore and Aft configuration if not using Projectile Weapon Officers to more rapidly reload the tubes.
Comments
Just remember that if you ever feel like going for a "more Klingon" flavor to your weapons, you can always invest in Polarized Disruptor Turrets (although you'd have to switch your Tactical Consoles to support Disruptor rather than Polaron Damage).
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/0f6c0d0eec9e6508f2a1dd95465c1798
I hadn't used the Kamarag in about a year. Which is why I made the mistake on Consoles. As to the Fleet gear, it is what I have. So, I have to come as I am, rather than as I'd like to. I have been playing this game since February of 2012. I do not have access to things you do not (Except for the Red Matter Capacitor maybe). I just have more of the resources you have access to due to playing for so long.
I have never had any luck at all with Polarized Disruptors. Others can get them to work miracles. All I've ever been able to do was scratch the paint on a target. And next be promptly blown out of the stars.
@mneme0
I am not registered at STO Academy, and I've no interest in registering there, either. So I cannot offer feedback because I cannot see your build. Nor am I registered over on Reddit. So something posted there I cannot see either. Reason? I'm not one of the 'cool kids'.
Splitting the Terran and Dominion sets like that to make up for the loss of a 4th Science Console is an interesting variation. I like the 3 piece Set Bonus for the Terran and Solanae Sets too much to take such an option myself.
Gravimetric Torpedoes are just something that, in my opinion, belong on Exotic Particle/Torpedo builds, which can enhance both ends of the Gravimetric. On a drain boat like this, you can't chase drain AND exotic (all that effectively) at the same time. You have to pick one or the other. Trust, me ... I WANT to put the Gravimetric Set into anything Dyson related! But ultimately, it just becomes a bridge too far in my experience. That's why I went more for the Drain/Torpedo combination instead.
Gravimetrics can do jaw dropping things when supported by plenty of Exotic Particle Expertise, the Science R&D Trait, Gravity Well I (or III) and Torpedo Spread III in PvE. I know ... I do it all the time with my Enhanced Battle Cloak Torpedo Boats (Kor and Malem, specifically) ... and I just make entire clusters of opposition chain react like popcorn. It's glorious! But without that kind of dedicated backing and support, those Gravimetric torpedoes just aren't going to be doing as much for you as they could be otherwise. Now, to be fair, the Polaron procs are probably going to be dropping shields for you, so you'll be able to get some good hits in with the Gravimetric, but that requires a bit of either lucky timing or manual shooting.
For Bridge Officers, I'm a little surprised at your choices. For one thing, I'd consider Rapid Fire to be the most easily dropped skill, rather than Tactical Team. In practice, all Rapid Fire does is make 4 volleys take 8.8 seconds instead of 12 seconds. That's basically +1 volley of fire over the 10 second duration. Not exactly inspiring. I'm using it mainly as a "switch off" with Scatter Volley so as to proc the Deft Cannoneer Trait and perform tighter turns. That way, I can switch between them every 15 or so seconds without worrying about it too much.
With a Gravity Well in the mix, I'd be tempted to go for:
Tactical Team I
Torpedo High Yield I, Cannon Scatter Volley I, Torpedo Spread III
That would then let you "scoop up" a pile of Foes and hit them all with a pile of Gravimetrics which then all proc Rifts in a confined space with plenty of overlap to amp up the damage throughput of the entire affair. It's what I do on my Torpedo Boats (from Cloak).
I'm a little surprised you aren't using the Intelligence seat for Intelligence Skills. Bare minimum, I would have picked up Viral Impulse Burst I. Why? Because it sets Weapon, -> SHIELD <- and Aux Power to 25 (and Impulse to 125) ... and you're flying a DRAIN Boat! Meaning that if you're getting -25/+25 Power out of your Plasmonic Leech through your energy weapons (never mind the procs), that's a guaranteed shield drop (and weapons offline and aux shutdown) for 6 seconds right there ... with an Ensign skill, a Plasmonic Leech Console and a pile of Turrets. Use that to set up Gravimetric on Hull shots, just by being within 5 km and flying in the right direction. It also gives you a defensive option of forcing Foes to disengage so as to give yourself some needed time to recover if you're being hard pressed and taking way too much fire. And Ionic Turbulence I (first) plus Gravity Well I -OR- Tyken's Rift I (after) would seem to be a damage multiplier option, not just from the skills themselves but from what the reduced Defense of your Foes will do to the Accuracy Overflow coming out of your weapons ... especially if you've got Control Amplification or Drain Infection (which apparently you do).
So decent looking build, but you might want to keep tweaking and experimenting here and there.
Interesting choice to have Energy Weapon Officers speeding up the Singularity Charge on a Starfleet ship.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Chronometric Polaron Heavy Turret Mk XII
Vaadwaur Polaron Turret Mk XII (Various Mods due to selection available on the Exchange. However all have at least one [Acc])
As I suspected, the Vaadwaur Polaron looks and sounds much nicer. The reduction in shield hardness they bring means what shields the target can bring back up are much softer and easier to penetrate. Adding the Chronometric turret gives the two piece bonus. Which is Cyclical Auxiliary Circuits. My Aux Power comes back up faster. Since I am trying to be a Torp/Drain Boat, this is important. The build itself is still slightly squishy and If I use the CSV I or either of my CC abilities, I draw aggro like nobody's business. Drawing aggro this way means I need to watch my Hull a bit more than I want to. Shields seem to need only the occasional tap on Redistribute or EPtS.
EDIT: Going to go try this out by running the Tau Dewa Dailies. Consistent enemy NPCs allow for experimentation in activation order to see what works best and how. Further, without contributions from other players I can get a better feel for what the build is actually doing.
Actually the reason I'm not using intel skills is that until yesterday the skill planner did not have Mirror Guardians, which are command ships rather than intel ships but otherwise identical. I have not yet switched my build over. If I was using a regular Guardian I would absolutely throw OSS1 and probably Ionic Turbulence in there as well.
Noted on the Singularity Core. Can you tell which faction is my favorite?
The singularity charge BOFFs are actually buff-strip BOFFs because those are not yet listed on the site.
I love TS3 and will see about switching them. I was using CRF because I have the extend CRF on crit hit trait from the Jem'Hadar strike ship.
I will see about switching the torpedo back to the Quantum or the Neutronic and just leave the Grav on my pure proton Dyson ship (build coming soon).
@thunderfoot006 You should not need to be registered to see builds. I only registered recently myself but could see builds before that.
Swapped out the Dyson set for the full phase set. I used the Quantum beam because the cruiser can't carry DHCs for some reason, and I wanted the full Quantum set because the beam also procs the Quantum set's shield drain and also because with as much drainx as I've got it would be a shame not to use the Big Blue Beam of Badass that comes with it. I know this is probably not a mathematically sound decision.
At ESD I have:
Acc: 38.8%
CrtH: 14.1%
CrtD: 55.0%
DrainX: 500
EPG: 150
EPS: 150
Plasmonic Leech: +-5.2
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I've given it SERIOUS consideration! The thing is, I like using my Science Skills more often than I like getting extra damage out of the Graviton Pulse Trait. With my build as is, I can cycle 2 Torpedo Skills within 30 seconds ... which with Astrometric Synergy represents a whopping -18 seconds to Tyken's Rift and Gravity Well, which gets them both really close to global cooldowns (over time) given everything else. I suppose I could drop the Radiant Explosion proc for Graviton Pulse, but that's part of the Buff Stripping secondary focus of the build I've got going, which also has a small AoE built into it. So it's really a toss up/personal preference as to which one to go for there (I picked the Iconian Trait, obviously).
If I wasn't doing a Buff Stripping secondary focus, I'd drop the Iconian Trait (and the Energy Weapon Officers) in favor of Graviton Pulse and do something else with those three Duty Officer slots. Again, plenty of room for variations on the theme that I've outlined and demonstrated.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
This thread has me hoping for some focus on the dominion, so that dominion polaron turrets could become a thing.
When I was researching Turrets for my build, I noticed the Chronometric and Vaadwaur Polarons ... and noticed almost as quickly that they ditch the Drain proc in favor of Shield Weakening. Personally, I'd rather turn the shields OFF entirely, by draining all Power, rather than just making the shields "squishy" and burning through them. The proc chances are the same either way (2.5%) but draining all Power out of ship "parks" them and ruins their Defense, making my Accuracy Overflow even more potent at delivering Critical Hits.
But hey, if it makes you happy (and it works) ... go for it!
Oh, well ... if you've got the trait to extend Rapid Fire, by all means, use Rapid Fire. You'll get off 6 salvos in 13.2 seconds, instead of 6 salvos in 18 seconds. That's a +36% DPS increase just from the rate of fire alone, thanks to the longer duration you get with the Trait.
How do you figure that? I'm not seeing anything in the Thoron Infused mods that indicates they ought to be inflicting critical hits more often than comparable alternatives. They also don't proc for drain, since they instead proc for Radiation and Placate (and [CrtX] penalties). All other factors being equal, I'd expect the Thoron Infused weapons to critically hit at the same rate (over infinite time) as other weapon types, provided there isn't a drain proc in play in the comparison (since that crashes $Target Defense and makes Accuracy Overflow more of a factor).
If Cryptic ever-
"Kurland here."
-allowed Dominion Turrets-
"Kurland here."
-to enter into the-
"This is Kurland."
-then I'd be using those-
"Kurland here."
-instead of Protonic Polarons.
"This is Kurland."
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
"Difficult to see, the truth is." To paraphrase one of my favorite philosophers.
I am simply observing what I see on the screen and thinking about it. And upon review, I think I'll keep the Thoron-Infused Polarons mounted. Because they do make everything stop where it is more often. And if it ain't movin' an' its got no power, it is a target instead of a threat.
I am not a DPS guy. Nor do I use CLR or anything like that. I do have the little green numbers and words flying off my target when I shoot it turned on. Words like "Critical", "Flank", "Immune", and "Miss" are really easy to spot amongst the ribbon of numbers flowing upwards off the target when I press the space bar.
Here. Maybe this will explain it better. Warning! This is about 3.75 minutes long. Before you commit to using the time out of your life, make sure you want to. I cannot give time back, lol.
http://vid140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/thunderfoot006/STO Schtuff/Delta Rep_zpssoiebykf.mp4
I see that you're sometimes managing to "switch off" the shields like I'm accustomed to seeing, but that in your case it's purely a result of using the Neutronic Torpedo combined with the Plasmonic Leech Drain. It isn't happening because of a Polaron drain proc. So it does happen, but not as frequently as I'm usually seeing with either crafted [Rapid] or Protonic Polarons.
It's hard to tell, but I suspect the Placate procs on the Thorons are having an ... intriguing ... effect on the flow of battle which is really hard to quantify and reduce down to a spreadsheet analysis. It's something you "feel" more than something you can examine. Bare minimum, it's interesting to see the "sickly yellow gold" bolts that they throw, since I'm now more accustomed to seeing the bluish/indigo/purple of Protonic Turrets now. Also really cool to see how maneuverable your ship is in comparison to my "lumbering" Cruiser that "turns" like a ... um ... turn based strategy game (or worse, PBEM).
I mean, sometimes I feel like this is the true theme song for Starfleet Cruisers ...
... and here I am, sticking Cannons onto them (go figure). So yeah, I'm jealous of the maneuverability you had on display there.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
I wonder if the differences you posted are simply caused by BOff and DOff abilitites? I used the DOffs I have rather than spend the hideous amounts of EC it would cost me to get the ones you suggested. Along with having Fleet gear mounted rather than the Terran Space Set. Still, this is a viable build in PvE and for playing STFs. It is one which I never would have thought of without your original post on the subject. Further, it has gotten me to think upon other builds of similar intent. Like tactical carriers with ENG captains which use this build.
So thanks for watching the video and if you saw something I could be doing better, please do not hesitiate to suggest it.
One more thing: The turning ability you envy comes mostly from the Impulse engines I mounted and one RCS Conductive Accelerator which I managed to turn gold while upgrading. I take either one off and I.K.S. One Thousand Paper Cuts can take half a map and all day to turn with the best of them. Klingon cruisers do turn better than Starfleet ones. But without assistance it is not that much better.
Since I parse, I can try and do some testing, just for data collecting purposes. Right now I've got that one parse, at 19.5k and a few others that are in the 13k range. But I'll start anew. Just do like 5 to 10 parses with one setup. And then 5 to 10 with another. Problem is I don't have access to the Protonic Polarons yet on my klingon.
This type of exercise, to me at least, is what a parsing tool is really for. Comparing gear, and making build choices. The uh, competition part is the part that gets all the discussion going on. But the data collection is far more valuable. Essentially I'd like to see what the difference is between a couple of different types of items. Like Rapid Polarons, Protonic Polarons, and so forth.
Most of my testing consists of running something which is easily repeatable and using my judgement as to whether or not the NPC's health bar is going down fast enough to suit me. All of the measurements I use are highly subjective and tend to vary from day to day. If I shoot and it dies fast enough, what I am using is good to go. 'Nuff said.
This thread has been full of good things. It proves once again simply copying someone else's build without knowing the why behind it isn't the best idea. Best part was when autumnturning gave his reasons in the OP. Quality stuff which is hard to find around here any more. The little bit I know about STO I know because I went and played it. Rather than simply copying someone's stuff and hoping for the best. I have a Fleet Mogai all kitted out in Nukara Rep stuff. Went into an STF where someone else flying a Scimi immediately started talking bad about my 'n00b' build. at then end of the STF, one of his buddies shared with. It was quite satisfying to see my 'n00b' build came in second in DPS and total damage. Mr. Scimitard was dead last. At about 4500 DPS. Didn't say anything to the kid but damn, I surely wanted to.
If you catch me this afternoon while I'm playing, we could team up and go hit either the Badlands or some Na'Kuhl (or whatever) to give you some data collection. Check your PM slot for details.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Same here. It basically comes down to making progress "fast enough" to be satisfying. Against most things, this Pressure build works for that, without being built so tightly that you can't change things up and try out different stuff. There's no "Right Answer" that makes for a perfected cookie cutter, but rather a plethora of "Good Answers" that can work differently for different people with different playstyles.
It has?
Better stop doing that then ... people will start getting the wrong idea if I keep it up ...
It's one thing to say "I did *blah*" without explaining, and something else again to say "I did *blah* BECAUSE ..." and then lay out your reasoning for analysis and peer review. The former doesn't TEACH you anything, it's just an example of how to do something that someone else did (so you do it too?). The latter though gets into the combination of wisdom, intellect, experience and experimentation that lies behind WHY you'd do something the way you did. The latter shows you the SHAPES of the bits and pieces and explains how they fit together, and why the way they fit together the way they do is a useful (let alone superior) configuration. That leads to both understanding and curiosity for what ELSE can be done, other than the example provided ... which as far as I'm concerned is all the to good, and a testament to the creative impulses of this community for taking ideas and making them your own.
I wasn't trying to promote "cookie cutter-ism" with this thread. Instead, I wanted to push the boundaries of the conventional wisdom when it comes to What Is Successful in terms of being able to play the game. Right now, drain builds are out of favor. Pressure builds are out of favor. Cannon builds are out of favor. They don't exploit the current game meta to the maximum extent possible, to yield the highest parses possible ... and yet ... they do have a "logic" all of their own, that requires functionally "inverting" a lot of the Conventional Wisdom to reach and discover an island of possibilities hidden in a sea of discarded and long since abandoned choices and options. Like I said up front, I think I might have stumbled onto an Alternative Meta for how to play the game, one which can synergize with and augment(!) the currently prevailing Game Meta in unusual ways.
So in that respect, if I'd found "a new way to play" (like I think I have), it would be the height of selfishness to keep it all to myself and not share it with everyone and find out if it works for more people than just me.
Apparently it does ...
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
You've discovered or rediscovered some things a lot of players have forgotten or never knew. I am not looking down at them. As long as they are having fun playing STO with a cookie cutter build, they are playing the game successfully. They are winning, as it were.
But as yourself, I am unsatisfied with being just another really big ship sporting Mega Oblivion Quad Beam Banks Mk XX who waltzes in and lays waste to yet another STF in less than thirty seconds. Yeah, it's fun sometimes. But going against the stream is a lifelong habit with me. Your pressure build works. Now because it works, I am curious to see if I can make it work with a different ship. Or with different weapons. And so on.
So in a way I am exploring. And in the end, I'll know a bit more. Now where did I place that KDF T6 tactical carrier? Wanna find out if I can make an all turret drain/torp build which will support my fighters by allowing them to administer the coup de grace. Gonna be fun to find out, ain't it?
@odenknight in game.
PS: I also suspect that the Protonic polaron proc has an internal cooldown like the phaser proc does. Like you said, it's icing on the cake, but that should be fixed like ProbManip needs to be fixed.
Good post!
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I have never before done this kind of damage this fast.
**Ship Information**
Name: I.K.S. wa'SanID nav pe'(One Thousand Paper Cuts)
Class: Fleet Kamarag Battle Cruiser Retrofit (T5-U)
Intended Role: Thinking outside the box when it comes to ship loadouts and capabilities. Inspired by autumnturning.
Commanding Officer: Dahar Master Cha Herom
Career: Science
Faction: Klingon Defense Force
Species: Lethean
Primary Specialization: Intelligence
Secondary Specialization: Pilot
Notes: Haven't tried finding the optimum specialization combination yet.
Ship Loadout - Final?
Fore Weapons
Neutronic Torpedo Launcher Mk XIV(VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Aft Weapons
Quantum Phase Torpedo Launcher Mk XIV(VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Polaron Turret Mk XII [Acc]x2[CtrH](VR)
Notes: Sometimes you have to take a step back to move forward. Basic Polarons work better so far.
I purchased the [Acc]x2[Dmg] Delta Rep turrets which may have been a mistake.
Deflector: Elite Fleet Axion Deflector Array Mk XIII [CrtlX]x2 [EPG] [SciCD]
Impulse: Elite Fleet Efficient Impulse Engines Mk XIII [Pow] [Spd] [Turn]x2
Warp Core: Elite Fleet Plasma-Integrated Warp Core MkXIII [ACap] [AMP] [Eff] [S->A] [Trans]
Shields: Elite Fleet Adaptive Resilient Shield Array Mk XIII [Adapt] [Cap]x2 [ResB]
Notes: Fleet gear may outperform Terran Rep gear. Unknown at present. Terran Set arrives next Tuesday, lol.
I've had no problems with keeping hull and shields up against NPCs so far.
Devices
Subspace Field Modulator
Temporal Negotiator
Red Matter Capacitor
Notes: Batteries work well here as well. Tested them with only some loss of capability.
Engineering Consoles
Plasmonic Leech
Quantum Phase Converter Mk XIV(VR)
Tachyokinetic Converter Mk XIV(VR)
Conductive RCS Accelerator Mk XIV [DrainX](VR)
Notes: If I swap out the leech for a Zero-Point Console drain goes to 430 but power levels drop to around 100 and stay there. Since I have an [AMP] Warp Core, I am keeping the leech.
Science Consoles
Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XIV [DrainX]x2(UR)
Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XIV [DrainX]x2(UR)
Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XIV [DrainX]x2(UR)
Restorative Particle Focuser Mk XIV [DrainX]x2(UR)
Tactical Consoles
Chronometric Capacitor Mk XIV(VR)
Polaron Phase Converter Mk XIV(VR)
Polaron Phase Converter Mk XIV(VR)
Notes: Had two Mk XIV Vulnerability Exploiters here. So when I landed a hit, it really did hit.
I know CRTH should be on Consoles rather than weapons. Currently unable to purchase Vulnerability Locators.
May put the Exploiters back on later.
Bridge Officers
Universal/Tactical (VR Lethean): Torpedo: High Yield I | Cannon: Rapid Fire I
Tactical (VR Lethean): Torpedo: Spread I | Cannon: Scatter Volley I
Tactical (VR Lethean): Tactical Team I
Engineering (VR Lethean): Engineering Team I | Emergency Power to Shields II | Emergency Power to Weapons III | Eject Warp Plasma III
Science (VR Lethean): Science Team I | Tyken's Rift I | Gravity Well I
Duty Officers
(VR) Energy Weapons Officer - Chance to reduce the recharge time when using cannon special attacks
(VR) Projectile Weapons Officer - Chance to reduce the reload time when using torpedoes (Law from Nimbus III)
(VR) Warp Core Engineer - Chance of temporarily improving your ship power on the use of any Emergency Power ability
(VR) Development Lab Scientist - Recharge time reduced for Science Team and Buff
(VR) Gravimetric Scientist - Chance to create an aftershock Gravity Well
Notes: I cannot get the aftershock Tyken's to fire, no matter what I try.
This is more probably related to something I am doing rather than a problem with the game.
Switched to aftershock Gravity Well because it does fire.
To @odenknight ... we've got to stop meeting like this. First it was over a Recommendation for Complimentary Torpedo Flight Speeds (which got a glorious Sisko Rant on THE SHOW, no less!) ... and now this. If we keep this up, Timberwolf (or worse, Captain SOB) might start to suspect something ... like, I dunno ... collusion ... or something ...
More than happy to oblige, although you'll need to "carry" me as I am sub-par geared for HSE (as you could see above). However, as "fire support" where my role is to "aid and abet" what the Team is doing, an HSE would probably make for a very decent test, since the longer survival times will yield more opportunities for my Buff Stripping procs to manifest and change the flow of battle (hopefully). It's also been an excessively long time since I've run a Hive Space (anything) so I'll be a bit rusty on the tactics and strategies needed.
However, if I can play "wingman" to a Torpedo Boat driver and wreak merry havoc on Power Levels to set up lots of torpedo meets hull events, I might be able to pull my own weight (without producing massive DPS myself). I'll send you a Friend request this afternoon during my lunch break and will be online in the evenings by 1030p EDT (I'm figuring you're busy on Wednesdays
You wouldn't happen to know anyone who likes to fly Torpedo Boats in HSE that I could partner with, would you?
Only way to know is to have hyper-competent people (like yourself and the Aggronauts and r/stobuilds folk) capturing the parse data and then analyzing it afterwards to yield behavioral explanations for what might actually be happening "under the hood" in the game mechanics.
We make every pretense of competency around here.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
I could be wrong, but I thought that was the point of flying with the KDF ...
Conventional wisdom holds that the proc on Thoron-Infused Polarons is inferior to that of Power Draining Polarons, regardless of flavor. In this case, I think the conventional wisdom is right ...
Last time I looked, you don't "lose" any +Damage with Spire Tactical Consoles (Locators/Exploiters) ... but you do "lose" +Damage for your main damage type if using Auto-Locators bought out of the Reputation Store, as opposed to buying from the Fleet Spire NPC Vendor.
I am unclear on how a Tachyokinetic Converter would be superior to a Zero-Point Energy Conduit.
Tachyokinetic Converter
+22.9% Flight Turn Rate, +17.2 Starship Control Expertise, +0.76% Critical Chance, +7.6% Critical Severity
Zero-Point Energy Conduit
+1.8 Power to all subsystems, +19.7 Starship Drain Expertise, +1.8% Critical Chance
Is the major advantage for your build the extra Turn Rate and Control? That would give you bigger Gravity Wells and bring your Torpedoes to bear more quickly. Note that you might get more Control, Critical H+D and Weapon Power out of an Assimilated Module, even if you aren't using an Omega Torpedo to go with it (for the 2 piece set bonus).
Then again, dropping the Quantum Phase Torpedo and Zero-Point Energy Conduit in favor of an Assimilated Module and Omega Torpedo could yield yet another interesting variation, because ...
Set 2: Omega Weapon Amplifier
On hit with any energy weapon, 2.5% chance: to self: Applies Omega Weapon Amplifier:
+10 Current Weapon Power
+500 Current Weapon Power Resistance Rating for 3 sec
+500 Maximum Weapon Power Resistance Rating for 3 sec
Not per salvo with any energy weapon ... ON HIT with any energy weapon ... proc for "Overcap Your Weapon Power Now" for 3 seconds ... which just so happens to be the length of a Turret salvo. Hmmm ...
And use of High Yield (higher ranks are better, obviously) with the Omega Torpedo results in ...
"Mischief managed."
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Console - Universal - Tachyokinetic Converter MkXIV (Rare):
+31.9% Turn Rate; +23.9 Control Expertise; +1.1 Critcal Hit; +10.6 Critical Damage.
Trying to be a drain/torp build and not be out in front of everyone else. Yup, that's me flying wingman. Let me pop a Grav Well on that cluster of nasty Na'kuhl and then the both of us will fire off every torpedo we can. Since on the way in, we drained them of power and they have no shielding.
In the Final? build posted above, CrtH is about 9% and CrtD is about 111.4% There probably needs to be a little tweaking somewheres. But I am into diminishing returns and dangerously close to becoming a min/maxer, lol. I just want to drive the ship, not turn wrenches on it in the garage for somebody else, lol. So, I am thinking seriously about calling it done and not worrying with it anymore. Except for the changes posted in the Final? build previously.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Problem Exists Between Command Chair And Viewscreen (PEBCCAV)?
Speaking just for myself, yes, I find my build firing them often enough to appreciate having something on the Aft arc. Maybe not on all maps and situations, but often enough to make a difference. Primarily that's because I've got Improved Pedal to the Metal and like to stay at 100% throttle as much as possible, so I'm constantly moving around the battlefield, meaning that my engagements are more of a Run & Gun type affair than they are of a Park & Siege. Also, given the ... frequency ... with which I'm dropping shields due to drains and procs, being able to land torpedoes onto unshielded hull makes for good opportunity shots which would otherwise be missed.
When I was running the Badlands for Gravimetrics to build my Terran Space Set, there were numerous times where I'd be playing "shepherd" to the orbiting satellite, and I'd be dropping to 50-75% throttle to fly in formation with its movements, allowing everyone else to fly freely while capture progress continued. In those circumstances, the Terran Nebulas would rarely spawn in my front arc and would more often be in my rear arc, and because I was flying in formation with the satellite (baby sitting it to completion) I couldn't maneuver to bring a different arc to bear. So in those situations, I was very happy to have an aft torpedo to "spike" something that would otherwise only be susceptible to "pressure" from the Turrets.
Sort of the same deal when fighting the Crystalline Cataclysm Advanced event. There is a LOT of damage getting tossed around by the Entity and by the Tholians/Terrans on that map, and I find it necessary to turn a lot to present different shields (while constantly balancing them to get the regen on ALL shields working to my advantage) and because of this having both fore and aft torpedoes, rather than fore only, tends to be an advantage. For one thing, it makes it easier to determine which torpedo is going to get the benefits of my Tactical Skills while keeping them on autofire. This then makes it a simpler case of thinking one (or two) steps ahead. If I need to drain power, use the forward torpedo, and if I want to smack shields (all simultaneously) then use the aft torpedo. The difference is that High Yield with the Quantum Phase will heal the shields of allies, so this is a non-trivial consideration and more of a tactical one.
Since the Turrets are all 360, it doesn't matter if they're placed Fore or Aft, but it does for the Torpedo Launchers. Since I don't keep things in my forward arc only, I personally prefer the Fore and Aft configuration if not using Projectile Weapon Officers to more rapidly reload the tubes.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground