Trouble is, if everyone takes this advice, no one opens any boxes, so there are no ships on the Exchange to buy. You need some fools for the system to work at all.
I noticed and mentioned this a long time ago, and yes I believe the EC prices would definitely start to reflect the actual values of acquiring them, yet Cryptic can and does control the incentive value to open boxes. This ensures the other goods that drop from lockboxes, and the lobi for more lobi store goods, remain worthwhile enough for a large enough sample of the population so that out of say 99 players or 199 players each of which opening just one box 2 may get their respective rare or ultra rare ship that they may or may not want and therefore place it on the exchange in order to more easily trade it for some other ship or ships or valuable items.
Yes, I made some assumptions but the "it's his problem" attitude is just blissful ignorance. When people spend unseemly amounts of money on chance boxes, it effects us all indirectly. For example, cryptic is incentivized to continue creating lock boxes because they are a veritable cash cow and the vicious cycle continues.
The same can be said of the industry as a whole. One company began to introduce lockboxes and they were incredibly profitable so other developers and publishers followed suit. The more people participate in these boxes, the more entrenched and rooted they become as an acceptable practice regardless of the political and moral implications.
What do we get out of it as gamer's? Nothing to be honest because it's not actually generating a large amount of content. The only thing that participating in lockboxes gets us in the long run are more lock boxes and an empty wallet. It's also pernicious for the in game population because the gap between the have's and have nots becomes ever wider. Or did you think we lived with Charlie in candyland and none of our individual actions had implications for the collective whole?
One day you'll wake up and find that you're kidney is missing like in the unicorn youtube video
Yes, I made some assumptions but the "it's his problem" attitude is just blissful ignorance. When people spend unseemly amounts of money on chance boxes, it effects us all indirectly. For example, cryptic is incentivized to continue creating lock boxes because they are a veritable cash cow and the vicious cycle continues.
The same can be said of the industry as a whole. One company began to introduce lockboxes and they were incredibly profitable so other developers and publishers followed suit. The more people participate in these boxes, the more entrenched and rooted they become as an acceptable practice regardless of the political and moral implications.
What do we get out of it as gamer's? Nothing to be honest because it's not actually generating a large amount of content. The only thing that participating in lockboxes gets us in the long run are more lock boxes and an empty wallet. It's also pernicious for the in game population because the gap between the have's and have nots becomes ever wider. Or did you think we lived with Charlie in candyland and none of our individual actions had implications for the collective whole?
You are promised 2-3 or however many lobi (I only opened a handful of boxes, I was smart and spent $200 on an LTS during a sale instead of on lockboxes) and you get those lobi. THAT is what you're buying, they are not gambling in any way other than offering you free gifts at the hands of a RNG as an extra thank you for supporting the team. Now cry more so that I may drink your salty scrub tears.
Azrael, sounds like your speaking from first hand experience. I guess what they say is true....lunacy begets lunacy. Grabs tinfoil hat and watches the latest episode of the X files ;D
Just to play devil's advocate, the majority of you claiming I'm ranting and resorting to strawman's are also using specious arguements. You never actually address the issue of lock boxes head on and constantly shift the goal posts. How is "it's not my problem a valid argument"? You're the dodging the question of whether or not these boxes are good for gaming. You also conveniently gloss over whether or nor it's right for first time players like the OP to be duped.
Lol, in fact you contradict yourselves. One one hand, you say you should have known it's gambling while simultaenously positing that it's not technically gambling. Well, how could he have known better if it isn't technically "gambling?" Your answers seem to implicitly admit that chance boxes are in fact gambling and if that is true, then they should be legally treated as such and be given no special treatment, virtual or not.
Also, my example of countries and/or states outlawing the practice of gambling houses not disclosing the odds of paying the various games offered through those establishments is very relevant to this discussion. Lock boxes, as I said, are taking advantage of the fact that they are one degree away from the legal definition of gambling in the majority of countries.
Now, let's imagine for the sake of argument that states and countries then do begin to outlaw virtual chances boxes because they fit into a new definition of online gambling or alternatively, that any chance box system would now be required to disclose the odds of winning to all players. Would PWE then deny said countries access to their games or would the industry then change slowly to incorporate these changes as an industry-wide practice?
Gamers have a say in this too. As far as I know, most of you are citizens with the right to vote and this issue is far from resolved. Laws are fluid as are society's values and perceptions. One day chance boxes will be outlawed; we just haven't reached that point yet unfortunately. Don't forget that a lot of U.S. States are moving towards stricter controls and regulations on inline gambling.
Gamers have a say in this too. As far as I know, most of you are citizens with the right to vote and this issue is far from resolved. Laws are fluid as are society's values and perceptions. One day chance boxes will be outlawed; we just haven't reached that point yet unfortunately. Don't forget that a lot of U.S. States are moving towards stricter controls and regulations on inline gambling.
Lock Boxes are not gambling and will never be considered gambling in the legal sense. If you are butt hurt cause you spent too money and did not get the ship you wanted well that's your problem. Cryptic clearly point out that you are not guaranteed to get this ship, just a chance to get one, you are guaranteed to get Lobi. Lockboxes support the F2P model, if players were willing to spend $XX a month on a subscription they would not be necessary.
While I disagree with some of the executions of the Lock Boxes therefore wont spend any real $ on them: never publishing the real %s, the FTC/FCC allowing such not regulated as gambling because they do offer a certain minimal prize even though most players if polled chance them for the "big" prizes, technically conspiracy driven it could all be coded for certain players to win & lose just like they do the certain players get a free T6 ship & some do not.
Knowing all of this, since the tactics are nothing new, if anything they have improved Lock Box's offerings & offered even choices, I have very little sympathy for the person that whines about not winning after spending so much arbitrary amount. It's unfortunate that those people didn't win what they wanted, but that is the risk of gambling & Cryptic/PWE luvs ya for tossing $ down that money pit. Who knows maybe that next Lock Box will be the winner :-) But whining about it, as this always happens, come on grow up, otherwise perhaps you shouldn't be gambling.
What I think would be a good additional feature with such mechanisms would be what they implemented with the damn upgrading of items that sucks away too much dilithium for my standards LOL. Some sort of accumulation additive for people opening those Lunch Boxes, the more you open the definite better chance you have of winning that "one" item you want similar to the better chance of upgrading the quality of the item(s) you are upgrading.
I usually will only purchase something if I'm certain that is what I'm buying. There's certainty in that. Gambling in this case is wanting to spend a minimal amount for a chance at grandness, but nevertheless it is only a chance.
There are striking similarities between the japanese gacha (essentially gambling with in game currency for a chance at winning some random reward) mechanic seen in Japanese social games and the mystery box mechanic we have in western countries like the U.S. In fact, the Japanese consumer protection agency banned the kampu gacha mechanic in 2012. Read here: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BetableBlog/20120525/171124/Why_quotKompu_Gachaquot_Was_Banned.php.
They banned it because the undisclosed odds were so abysmally low and people were spending (sometimes minors) such unbelievable amounts, that the Japanese consumer agency felt some protection needed to be enacted, in the form of a ban on the practice, to better protect minors and create a safer environment for the gamers in general.
Now, I could very well see the U.S. consumer protection agency (probably U.K. As well) banning some forms of chance boxes in the US video gaming industry as well once the practice becomes more widespread and more aggregious. As I said before, it is only a matter of time and despite the fact that most of you pretend it isn't a serious issue, it is certainly being taken very seriously by certain countries and their respective consumer protection agencies.
The difference between Japan and the West is that these sorts of gambling mechanics or schemes have been around in their videogaming industry for a lot longer than ours and thus, it has become much more problematic for them because they allowed the issue to go on unresolved for far too long.
Essentially, these Japanese publishers began taking advantage of social media games and targeting youth with these gambling games because it was technically legal to do so at the time. I urge you to read more about it and then come back to the discussion table.
Rook, I know, right? I mean people all up in here discussing and stuff and using them big words, man. Why they gotta be like that? Why can't they just chill?
Edit: Rook if only the world were so simple. If it were just a game, PWe and other publishers wouldn't have retained armies of attorneys to defend their interests and to fight tooth and nail against such industry regulations. If only....
This isn't the proverbial board game you play at your Aunt Bessie's house anymore, sorry.
Good point Trouka but how would he have known that if he was never given a fair shake to begin with? If he doesn't know the odds, how does he know when to stop? And if he knows it's gambling and we all do too (at least morally), then shouldn't it be stated somewhere in the game or even as prompt so that he has some sort of warning as to the chances of winning the prize? Because if we can all agree on that and he's been properly warned, then if he goes ahead and does it anyways, it would truly be his fault.
Don't assume he's a veteran player and don't assume he knows how to find the odds players have posted on stowiki.
Bobby, the OP made a generalization about an in-game mechanic called lock boxes and we're having a civil discussion about that generalization as to how it relates to STo and the video game industry as a whole as well as using the OP's example to discuss why lock boxes in their current state may be harmful to sto and other videogames.
If the subject material makes you uncomfortable, I politely suggest you not derail the thread and allow the discussion to continue.
Cryptic must have heard me complain!! I had 10 lock boxes left to open and as soon as I opened the first of those ten, voila! a battlecruiser appeared!
Activism. Every street corner needs and activist to hustle people.
Cryptic must have heard me complain!! I had 10 lock boxes left to open and as soon as I opened the first of those ten, voila! a battlecruiser appeared!
Cryptic must have heard me complain!! I had 10 lock boxes left to open and as soon as I opened the first of those ten, voila! a battlecruiser appeared!
Comments
I noticed and mentioned this a long time ago, and yes I believe the EC prices would definitely start to reflect the actual values of acquiring them, yet Cryptic can and does control the incentive value to open boxes. This ensures the other goods that drop from lockboxes, and the lobi for more lobi store goods, remain worthwhile enough for a large enough sample of the population so that out of say 99 players or 199 players each of which opening just one box 2 may get their respective rare or ultra rare ship that they may or may not want and therefore place it on the exchange in order to more easily trade it for some other ship or ships or valuable items.
The same can be said of the industry as a whole. One company began to introduce lockboxes and they were incredibly profitable so other developers and publishers followed suit. The more people participate in these boxes, the more entrenched and rooted they become as an acceptable practice regardless of the political and moral implications.
What do we get out of it as gamer's? Nothing to be honest because it's not actually generating a large amount of content. The only thing that participating in lockboxes gets us in the long run are more lock boxes and an empty wallet. It's also pernicious for the in game population because the gap between the have's and have nots becomes ever wider. Or did you think we lived with Charlie in candyland and none of our individual actions had implications for the collective whole?
One day you'll wake up and find that you're kidney is missing like in the unicorn youtube video
CRYPTIC IS AFTER MY KIDNEYS!!!!
lol
Just to play devil's advocate, the majority of you claiming I'm ranting and resorting to strawman's are also using specious arguements. You never actually address the issue of lock boxes head on and constantly shift the goal posts. How is "it's not my problem a valid argument"? You're the dodging the question of whether or not these boxes are good for gaming. You also conveniently gloss over whether or nor it's right for first time players like the OP to be duped.
Lol, in fact you contradict yourselves. One one hand, you say you should have known it's gambling while simultaenously positing that it's not technically gambling. Well, how could he have known better if it isn't technically "gambling?" Your answers seem to implicitly admit that chance boxes are in fact gambling and if that is true, then they should be legally treated as such and be given no special treatment, virtual or not.
Also, my example of countries and/or states outlawing the practice of gambling houses not disclosing the odds of paying the various games offered through those establishments is very relevant to this discussion. Lock boxes, as I said, are taking advantage of the fact that they are one degree away from the legal definition of gambling in the majority of countries.
Now, let's imagine for the sake of argument that states and countries then do begin to outlaw virtual chances boxes because they fit into a new definition of online gambling or alternatively, that any chance box system would now be required to disclose the odds of winning to all players. Would PWE then deny said countries access to their games or would the industry then change slowly to incorporate these changes as an industry-wide practice?
Gamers have a say in this too. As far as I know, most of you are citizens with the right to vote and this issue is far from resolved. Laws are fluid as are society's values and perceptions. One day chance boxes will be outlawed; we just haven't reached that point yet unfortunately. Don't forget that a lot of U.S. States are moving towards stricter controls and regulations on inline gambling.
Lock Boxes are not gambling and will never be considered gambling in the legal sense. If you are butt hurt cause you spent too money and did not get the ship you wanted well that's your problem. Cryptic clearly point out that you are not guaranteed to get this ship, just a chance to get one, you are guaranteed to get Lobi. Lockboxes support the F2P model, if players were willing to spend $XX a month on a subscription they would not be necessary.
Knowing all of this, since the tactics are nothing new, if anything they have improved Lock Box's offerings & offered even choices, I have very little sympathy for the person that whines about not winning after spending so much arbitrary amount. It's unfortunate that those people didn't win what they wanted, but that is the risk of gambling & Cryptic/PWE luvs ya for tossing $ down that money pit. Who knows maybe that next Lock Box will be the winner :-) But whining about it, as this always happens, come on grow up, otherwise perhaps you shouldn't be gambling.
What I think would be a good additional feature with such mechanisms would be what they implemented with the damn upgrading of items that sucks away too much dilithium for my standards LOL. Some sort of accumulation additive for people opening those Lunch Boxes, the more you open the definite better chance you have of winning that "one" item you want similar to the better chance of upgrading the quality of the item(s) you are upgrading.
I usually will only purchase something if I'm certain that is what I'm buying. There's certainty in that. Gambling in this case is wanting to spend a minimal amount for a chance at grandness, but nevertheless it is only a chance.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BetableBlog/20120525/171124/Why_quotKompu_Gachaquot_Was_Banned.php.
They banned it because the undisclosed odds were so abysmally low and people were spending (sometimes minors) such unbelievable amounts, that the Japanese consumer agency felt some protection needed to be enacted, in the form of a ban on the practice, to better protect minors and create a safer environment for the gamers in general.
Now, I could very well see the U.S. consumer protection agency (probably U.K. As well) banning some forms of chance boxes in the US video gaming industry as well once the practice becomes more widespread and more aggregious. As I said before, it is only a matter of time and despite the fact that most of you pretend it isn't a serious issue, it is certainly being taken very seriously by certain countries and their respective consumer protection agencies.
The difference between Japan and the West is that these sorts of gambling mechanics or schemes have been around in their videogaming industry for a lot longer than ours and thus, it has become much more problematic for them because they allowed the issue to go on unresolved for far too long.
Essentially, these Japanese publishers began taking advantage of social media games and targeting youth with these gambling games because it was technically legal to do so at the time. I urge you to read more about it and then come back to the discussion table.
This may be a good time to take a deep breath and remind yourselves: it's just a game.
Edit: Rook if only the world were so simple. If it were just a game, PWe and other publishers wouldn't have retained armies of attorneys to defend their interests and to fight tooth and nail against such industry regulations. If only....
This isn't the proverbial board game you play at your Aunt Bessie's house anymore, sorry.
Good point Trouka but how would he have known that if he was never given a fair shake to begin with? If he doesn't know the odds, how does he know when to stop? And if he knows it's gambling and we all do too (at least morally), then shouldn't it be stated somewhere in the game or even as prompt so that he has some sort of warning as to the chances of winning the prize? Because if we can all agree on that and he's been properly warned, then if he goes ahead and does it anyways, it would truly be his fault.
Don't assume he's a veteran player and don't assume he knows how to find the odds players have posted on stowiki.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
If the subject material makes you uncomfortable, I politely suggest you not derail the thread and allow the discussion to continue.
Activism. Every street corner needs and activist to hustle people.
The system works.
Seems like it, yeah.