I believe that they work out correctly if you have a Mark XII Iconian Resistance Deflector Array equipped, and if you have the Nukara Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense reputation slotted on Holodeck, but not on Tribble. Are those two statements correct?
I do indeed have the Iconian Resistance Deflector equipped, however I don't have Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense on Holodeck, I'm running Offense on both servers. If I do slot Defense, my Holodeck values change to:
Ok, So I went and copied a toon over to the Redshirt server to do studies and comparisons to the toon I have on the holodeck server. I chose the red shirt server because it is still in it’s pre season 11.5 state, so this should provide us a more accurate detail of the resistances.
I made sure that nothing was changed in order to get a more accurate report.
Upon my login into the Redshirt Server, my toon is not in a fleet, so that alone will prevent any fleet buffs from affecting the ship’s combat performance. Well, from my findings, I have found that the resistances on the redshirt server to be much lower then the resistances on the toon on the holodeck server.
With this new information, I do believe that the information that we are using may be incorrect. I am requesting help with this to confirm these findings.
That is not correct; my apologies for misspeaking.
The maximum resistance you should be able to achieve on Holodeck from your skill tree alone is 21%, assuming you have the Damage Resistance accolades. That would require you to have purchased all 9 ranks of threat control and hull plating. If your only source of resistance on Holodeck is 84 points in Hull Plating and that accolade, your resistances should be 12.7%.
Do you have the Threat Control skill purchased on Holodeck? Your Holodeck resistance looks as if you have purchase 6 ranks of Hull Plating, 9 ranks of Threat Control, and have the Tier 3 Combat Performance Boost from your Fleet Research Laboratory active. If that is accurate, then it appears that the discrepancy is likely due to those missing resistances on Tribble.
I can confirm I have the Combat Performance Boost 3 and 6 Ranks of Hull Plating.
However, I have zero ranks in Threat Control and ending up with a resistance of 34.7% with no gear on my ship and the Aux Defense trait removed. I have no other traits that buff damage resistance, hull plating, or threat control that I can see.
Unfortunately, it is already very late and I don't have time to patch Redshirt now. I'll try to continue again tomorrow after work to get numbers without my fleet influence.
Weekly Project: Combat Performance Boost (Tier 3)
Provide all members of your Fleet with a passive boost for the next 5 days.
Boost Type: Improves all of the following Combat Statistics
+20% All Damage (Ground and Space) +40 All Damage Resistance Rating (Ground and Space)
+10% Speed and Turn Rate (Space)
+10% Run Speed and Dodge (Ground)
WARNING: Slotting any Weekly Project makes your Fleet incapable of slotting any other Weekly Projects. Once any Weekly Project is completed, all Weekly Projects are put onto a shared cooldown for 5 days.
Add your Skillpoints and normal 2% damage resistance accolade passives to that 40% and then apply Diminishing Returns... and that's looking suspiciously close to your reported numbers of 34.7%.
[12.7 Skillpoints + 2 Accolades + 40 FleetBonus] = 54.7 Damage Resistance Magnitude
So it'll be 3*(0.25-((75/(150+drm)*(75/(150+drm))))) = 34.7275% Resistance Total after Diminishing Returns
Perhaps add a few armor consoles to your character on Tribble to get +40 resistance (emulating the Fleet bonus) and compare your stats then?
@borticuscryptic I am not sure if this is what you are looking for, but here is the information about what i have equipped.
Ship Stats- holodeck server:
[img][/img]
Ship stats- tribble server:
[img][/img]
Question: If this is the same ship and gear, WHY is the numbers between Holodeck and Tribble different? NOT just Resistances.
HULL is 62,055 on Holodeck and 49,611 on Tribble.
Shield facings is 11,386 on Holodeck and 9,023 on Tribble.
Flight speed is cut off in your pics, so can't see that.
Anyhoo....all things being equal....why is there such a big difference there?
(Sorry, I have not finished reading everything so this may have been answered somewhere down the line...I just started reading what I missed yesterday)
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Question: If this is the same ship and gear, WHY is the numbers between Holodeck and Tribble different? NOT just Resistances.
HULL is 62,055 on Holodeck and 49,611 on Tribble.
Shield facings is 11,386 on Holodeck and 9,023 on Tribble.
Flight speed is cut off in your pics, so can't see that.
Anyhoo....all things being equal....why is there such a big difference there?
Check the screenshots casidien posted of his Tribble skill choices alongside the ones of those stats.
On Live he has 9/9 points in Structural Integrity and Starship Shield Systems
On Tribble he has 0/3 points in Hull Capacity and Shield Capacity (the "shield" icons under the Lieutenant section)
I guess, skills do make a difference....I just did not realize HOW MUCH until I saw that.
No probs.
According to Amicus's skillpoints table, going 9/9 in those skills on Live grants +30% base capacity for both Hull and Shield. On Tribble going 3/3 in the new skills also grants +30% capacity, so they should even out if you take the equivalent skills.
The only skills I know of on Tribble that have been "reduced" from Live are Shield Hardness and Regeneration (see Bort's posts here). These skills technically didn't exist prior to the revamp - you need one point in both of these on Tribble to get the same in-game performance as you're used to seeing on Live, but you can get higher performance by investing more points.
According to Amicus's skillpoints table, going 9/9 in those skills on Live grants +30% base capacity for both Hull and Shield. On Tribble going 3/3 in the new skills also grants +30% capacity, so they should even out if you take the equivalent skills.
Are you sure about the 30%? He must have changed something else, too.
I am lazy....can not be bothered to check every thing....so I am just going to mess with it on my characters where I can keep track easier.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Are you sure about the 30%? He must have changed something else, too.
Yep, but remember that it's +30% BASE capacity.
Other things will be in play too, such as the "auxiliary power configuration: defensive" trait mentioned which also grants extra Hull and Shield Capacity. (And then there are things such as the starship's shield modifier value...)
The figure on the stats screen is the final result, after factoring in the additions from skillpoints and all the other buffs.
Other things will be in play too, such as the "auxiliary power configuration: defensive" trait mentioned which also grants extra Hull and Shield Capacity. (And then there are things such as the starship's shield modifier value...)
The figure on the stats screen is the final result, after factoring in the additions from skillpoints and all the other buffs.
This game gets more complicated the closer you look at things...
I will probably be happy just getting things to work the same to Holodeck....which it is not doing, right now.
I mean: I can make the NUMBERS look similar....but performance is off.
Strike all this!
I am making a few errors on my tests....THAT is really what is going on there.
Post edited by where2r1 on
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
This new system is supposed to be easier to use and allow new peeps to understand when starting out. In my experience I went on to tribble, run up a new character and then when my main was transfered to tribble I started to create a similar build (I'm not an arithmetic genius) and made a mistake. My immediate reaction was damn and I returned to the holodeck and have not been back. I wonder how many new people would go and make a mistake, then compound that by another to try and fix it without using real money then leave the game? We really need to keep the skills in place to see their affect before locking in. Why not just change the useless skills in the current system or update the description. I know that time has been used to develop this system but why not get something better than this and get it right rather than a "it's on the table but not in the schedule". Damn the schedule and take the time to do it right. I do not want to see the game ruined.
I wonder how many new people would go and make a mistake
It's not just new people who will make mistakes.
After having fat fingered quite a few "test set ups" on Tribble, myself, I know it is easy to do.
A lot of it is : lack of labels. And rushing through all 46 space points on already created characters. And, for me, they are still moving abilities around in the tree...not in the same place as the last time I did this.
Silly things like: OOPS! I clicked on "Drain Expertise" column when I meant to click on "Control Expertise"....gosh, I thought I knew where those things were.
It is bound to happen to people, more likely as they move through multiple ALTs.
ON Tribble, the respecs are free, for now. So, not a big deal for test runs. But that will not be the case when this goes "Live" on Holodeck.
Do things like "typos" and "not paying attention" and "rushing through the alts" warrant unlimited amount of respecs by every single player, for every single character, they have in the game?
Would it be nice to have a few extra respecs in my pocket, in case of emergencies. Yes, it would. But, is there any reason why I couldn't buy one? Matter of fact, I am setting up a little kitty of zen from exchanging dilithium, right now...for this exact reason.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'd like to make a suggestion that I fear will come off as a bit flippant, but should nonetheless be taken to heart:
You know the costs of making a mistake, and have already admitted that such mistakes would likely be the result of your own impatience and/or lack of attentiveness. So... don't do that. If you are afraid of the price associated with those mistakes, then slow down, pay attention, and don't make those mistakes.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
It's a perfectly valid suggestion that will be found offensive only by the mouth-breathing idiots our society has brought up to not take any responsibility for their actions.
Your going to make mistakes, but at a certain point, someone or something has to stop holding your hand. Its the way of life, and its how we learn to look, wait, and not rush into alot of things.
Anyway, this current Skill tree on tribble doesnt really allow for silly mistakes across the board, maybe one or two, but not the entire thing. You need to click the ability, then confirm each one individually. It might pain some, but i like it. Allows me, and actually will force alot of people to slow down, maybe even look at each ability and skill point, and make decisions on each one, on how they feel with that persons build, or attempted build.
I'd like to make a suggestion that I fear will come off as a bit flippant, but should nonetheless be taken to heart:
You know the costs of making a mistake, and have already admitted that such mistakes would likely be the result of your own impatience and/or lack of attentiveness. So... don't do that. If you are afraid of the price associated with those mistakes, then slow down, pay attention, and don't make those mistakes.
Its not flippant, its just not going to lead to a good outcome across the breadth of your customer base. I am not going to TRIBBLE up - I'll have done all the work on a third-party calculator and will have a cheat sheet in hand before I go anywhere near the new panel. I think almost any slow, methodical player will manage to get through it without extreme mishap.
You tell us - does that describe all of the STO customers you want to keep? Because I doubt that it does.
I find most goof-proofing twice as tiresome as the next guy, but its still something you have to do if you want broad appeal. Handrails - human civilization does need them. Launching without PowerCart because of deadlines is excusable. Thinking it's not going to come up in a negative way every single day between launch and finally getting it implemented is less so.
I find most goof-proofing twice as tiresome as the next guy, but its still something you have to do if you want broad appeal. Handrails - human civilization does need them.
Seriously, not waiting on welfare from Cryptic.
Waiting for SOMEONE ELSE to "goof-proof" things for you is not prudent, either.
I just spent my dilithium on some Zen...earmarked it for Respec Tokens in the new system.
Didn't take long. Didn't take much dilithium, either.
There is still time to prep for doomsday, people. <-- oh this is funny. LOL!
If I don't make any errors...I will have Zen for the down payment on the T-6 Pilot Raptor Bundle. Woo Hoo.
Meantime, I am free from further worries.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'd like to make a suggestion that I fear will come off as a bit flippant, but should nonetheless be taken to heart:
You know the costs of making a mistake, and have already admitted that such mistakes would likely be the result of your own impatience and/or lack of attentiveness. So... don't do that. If you are afraid of the price associated with those mistakes, then slow down, pay attention, and don't make those mistakes.
Its not flippant, its just not going to lead to a good outcome across the breadth of your customer base. I am not going to TRIBBLE up - I'll have done all the work on a third-party calculator and will have a cheat sheet in hand before I go anywhere near the new panel. I think almost any slow, methodical player will manage to get through it without extreme mishap.
You tell us - does that describe all of the STO customers you want to keep? Because I doubt that it does.
I find most goof-proofing twice as tiresome as the next guy, but its still something you have to do if you want broad appeal. Handrails - human civilization does need them. Launching without PowerCart because of deadlines is excusable. Thinking it's not going to come up in a negative way every single day between launch and finally getting it implemented is less so.
Similarly... should the company be concerned about the price of those mistakes, slow down, pay attention, and not make those mistakes likely to occur? (Come on Bort, you knew the moment you posted that someone would point out that it applies to both sides of the discussion...)
I do think it should be made clear that PowerCart functionality is something that makes for a more enjoyable user experience. While this isn't as much of an issue as we level new characters, players who have reached Level 50+ and actually purchase a Respec Token (along with pretty much everyone when this goes to Holodeck on the 12th) will find re-selecting each Skill one at a time to be bothersome indeed compared to the old system. For a process you expect players to spend Zen on, a PowerCart system should be on the short list of things to get done once the Skill Revamp itself is finished (if not before it goes live). If Respecs are slated to be performed at a reasonable cost of in-game currency (EC, dilithium, Marks, etc.) then it's also reasonable to leave the burden on players... but with F2P being (theoretically) built around spending for convenience, such a cumbersome Respec system isn't a very good fit for monetization.
Personally, I'm more inclined to focus on ensuring that players do not in fact lose anything in the process of the Skill Revamp as far as the Skills themselves and the abilities they influence. My own pet peeve is EPS Manifold Efficiency (and Engineering in general feeling like the afterthought section of the Revamp), yet the dev team has been doing a solid job of communicating with testers and has been responding to feedback, so I'm holding out hope on that front (so my Engineers can at least remain comparable to their current capabilities, even if they don't get any new shinies). Once the details of the Skills themselves are sorted out, though, the user experience ought to be addressed...
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I'd like to make a suggestion that I fear will come off as a bit flippant, but should nonetheless be taken to heart:
You know the costs of making a mistake, and have already admitted that such mistakes would likely be the result of your own impatience and/or lack of attentiveness. So... don't do that. If you are afraid of the price associated with those mistakes, then slow down, pay attention, and don't make those mistakes.
Its not flippant, its just not going to lead to a good outcome across the breadth of your customer base. I am not going to TRIBBLE up - I'll have done all the work on a third-party calculator and will have a cheat sheet in hand before I go anywhere near the new panel. I think almost any slow, methodical player will manage to get through it without extreme mishap.
You tell us - does that describe all of the STO customers you want to keep? Because I doubt that it does.
I find most goof-proofing twice as tiresome as the next guy, but its still something you have to do if you want broad appeal. Handrails - human civilization does need them. Launching without PowerCart because of deadlines is excusable. Thinking it's not going to come up in a negative way every single day between launch and finally getting it implemented is less so.
Similarly... should the company be concerned about the price of those mistakes, slow down, pay attention, and not make those mistakes likely to occur? (Come on Bort, you knew the moment you posted that someone would point out that it applies to both sides of the discussion...)
I do think it should be made clear that PowerCart functionality is something that makes for a more enjoyable user experience. While this isn't as much of an issue as we level new characters, players who have reached Level 50+ and actually purchase a Respec Token (along with pretty much everyone when this goes to Holodeck on the 12th) will find re-selecting each Skill one at a time to be bothersome indeed compared to the old system. For a process you expect players to spend Zen on, a PowerCart system should be on the short list of things to get done once the Skill Revamp itself is finished (if not before it goes live). If Respecs are slated to be performed at a reasonable cost of in-game currency (EC, dilithium, Marks, etc.) then it's also reasonable to leave the burden on players... but with F2P being (theoretically) built around spending for convenience, such a cumbersome Respec system isn't a very good fit for monetization.
Personally, I'm more inclined to focus on ensuring that players do not in fact lose anything in the process of the Skill Revamp as far as the Skills themselves and the abilities they influence. My own pet peeve is EPS Manifold Efficiency (and Engineering in general feeling like the afterthought section of the Revamp), yet the dev team has been doing a solid job of communicating with testers and has been responding to feedback, so I'm holding out hope on that front (so my Engineers can at least remain comparable to their current capabilities, even if they don't get any new shinies). Once the details of the Skills themselves are sorted out, though, the user experience ought to be addressed...
The Power Cart system is not a magical bullet that makes you not do mistakes.
I've made mistakes with the old system, too. Because you can make so many picks at once, and have to shuffle points with the old system like crazy to unlock a skill training, and avoiding having points you can't spend anymore, there is plenty of error potential and plenty of chances where you get inattentive and make mistakes.
I think people are worrying too much. There will be a free respec, there will probably be some kind of respec sale, Dilithium can be exchanged for Zen...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'd like to re-state for the record that being able to buy one more skill slot for each character would make most of these issues go away. Being able to have two different kinds of builds per character would be a huge QOL improvement and make people want to branch out past cookie cutter builds. Or make it possible to earn respecs easier, but the first idea is better.
I suppose my point was to err is human and people will make mistakes. I'm concerned by casual players and new players which this game will need to survive. I maybe short sighted but I can't help feel that vets will continue to fund this game as I do but for the casual and new player it my turn them away. When they post builds and are given recommendations which continually change and will cost money to put right then they lock in something that they didn't mean and they say sod it a leave or rage quit. I may be nieve.
I still prefer the old system but that could be the dinosaur in me. ;-)
I suppose my point was to err is human and people will make mistakes. I'm concerned by casual players and new players which this game will need to survive.
What kind of mistakes do you think are possible in the system that would actually ruin a character so much that someone would just stop playing the game rather than either keeping the mistake or expending Zen/Dilithium/Dollars for a respec?
It's not like like there are "This makes your character totally suck and unable to deal more than 10K DPS" skills at every tier.
If you accidentally pick one point of Control Expertise instead of Shield Restoration, you will probably still be able to beat an Elite Queue if you could do it with the right pick. (Not that such an extreme would even be relevant for a "Casual".)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'd like to make a suggestion that I fear will come off as a bit flippant, but should nonetheless be taken to heart:
You know the costs of making a mistake, and have already admitted that such mistakes would likely be the result of your own impatience and/or lack of attentiveness. So... don't do that. If you are afraid of the price associated with those mistakes, then slow down, pay attention, and don't make those mistakes.
Its not flippant, its just not going to lead to a good outcome across the breadth of your customer base. I am not going to TRIBBLE up - I'll have done all the work on a third-party calculator and will have a cheat sheet in hand before I go anywhere near the new panel. I think almost any slow, methodical player will manage to get through it without extreme mishap.
You tell us - does that describe all of the STO customers you want to keep? Because I doubt that it does.
I find most goof-proofing twice as tiresome as the next guy, but its still something you have to do if you want broad appeal. Handrails - human civilization does need them. Launching without PowerCart because of deadlines is excusable. Thinking it's not going to come up in a negative way every single day between launch and finally getting it implemented is less so.
Similarly... should the company be concerned about the price of those mistakes, slow down, pay attention, and not make those mistakes likely to occur? (Come on Bort, you knew the moment you posted that someone would point out that it applies to both sides of the discussion...)
I do think it should be made clear that PowerCart functionality is something that makes for a more enjoyable user experience. While this isn't as much of an issue as we level new characters, players who have reached Level 50+ and actually purchase a Respec Token (along with pretty much everyone when this goes to Holodeck on the 12th) will find re-selecting each Skill one at a time to be bothersome indeed compared to the old system. For a process you expect players to spend Zen on, a PowerCart system should be on the short list of things to get done once the Skill Revamp itself is finished (if not before it goes live). If Respecs are slated to be performed at a reasonable cost of in-game currency (EC, dilithium, Marks, etc.) then it's also reasonable to leave the burden on players... but with F2P being (theoretically) built around spending for convenience, such a cumbersome Respec system isn't a very good fit for monetization.
Personally, I'm more inclined to focus on ensuring that players do not in fact lose anything in the process of the Skill Revamp as far as the Skills themselves and the abilities they influence. My own pet peeve is EPS Manifold Efficiency (and Engineering in general feeling like the afterthought section of the Revamp), yet the dev team has been doing a solid job of communicating with testers and has been responding to feedback, so I'm holding out hope on that front (so my Engineers can at least remain comparable to their current capabilities, even if they don't get any new shinies). Once the details of the Skills themselves are sorted out, though, the user experience ought to be addressed...
The Power Cart system is not a magical bullet that makes you not do mistakes.
I've made mistakes with the old system, too. Because you can make so many picks at once, and have to shuffle points with the old system like crazy to unlock a skill training, and avoiding having points you can't spend anymore, there is plenty of error potential and plenty of chances where you get inattentive and make mistakes.
I think people are worrying too much. There will be a free respec, there will probably be some kind of respec sale, Dilithium can be exchanged for Zen...
I'm not saying it's a magic bullet or anything, merely that it's something that makes STO better than the industry standard. If all they want to achieve is that standard, shift Respecs over to an EC cost, toss out the PowerCart, and they've pretty much hit the industry standard right on the nose. That doesn't make it better than the standard in any way, though, and charging Zen makes it fall below that threshold.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
If you accidentally pick one point of Control Expertise instead of Shield Restoration, you will probably still be able to beat an Elite Queue if you could do it with the right pick. (Not that such an extreme would even be relevant for a "Casual".)
But to undo your mistake you will have to pay for it, the old Skill Tree saved me from making a mistake more than once.
The problem is: each of the 46 skill points is swinging a larger increment of the skill score around. (I found this out the hard way....read edits I had to make to my posts from bad tests)
Missing one point could be the difference between having 50 points in Control Expertise or 85 points. And the way some of the skills are set up, the difference will be 60 points or 100 points.
That is a BIG deal on the way the program is going to calculate outcomes.
There is no middle ground as there was in the Holodeck tree.
The old tree: a miss placed "point" here or there, it was a smaller mistake.
(Hmm...not sure if Control Expertise is one of those 50-85-100 scores or not.... but I think most people can figure out what I mean. I am the worst with numbers but I eventually saw it)
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I've made mistakes with the old system, too. Because you can make so many picks at once, and have to shuffle points with the old system like crazy to unlock a skill training, and avoiding having points you can't spend anymore, there is plenty of error potential and plenty of chances where you get inattentive and make mistakes.
While I'm not going to say that it's impossible to make a mistake during a respec on Holodeck (because I could totally see myself overlooking something), the way you're forced to spend all the points at once and then lock them in, rather than making purchases one at a time, makes it far less likely. I think ditching that requirement to spend all of the points is a great change, but I just wanted to point that out. I think the potential for mistakes while leveling is pretty equal in both systems.
I'd like to see PowerCart make a comeback at some point, too, but my personal pet feature request is the ability to unbuy a point for some dilithium. I don't always want to do a full respec just to correct something about my build, like say I find I'm unhappy with Shield Regeneration and decide I'd be better off taking a point from there and putting it into Hardness instead. It doesn't feel right that I'd have to wipe the slate clean to do that--I never liked it about the old system and this one doesn't address it.
Comments
I do indeed have the Iconian Resistance Deflector equipped, however I don't have Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense on Holodeck, I'm running Offense on both servers. If I do slot Defense, my Holodeck values change to:
Kinetic Resist: 43.8%
Energy Resists: 38.6%
@borticuscryptic @crypticspartan#0627
What are your thoughts on my new findings?
I can confirm I have the Combat Performance Boost 3 and 6 Ranks of Hull Plating.
However, I have zero ranks in Threat Control and ending up with a resistance of 34.7% with no gear on my ship and the Aux Defense trait removed. I have no other traits that buff damage resistance, hull plating, or threat control that I can see.
Unfortunately, it is already very late and I don't have time to patch Redshirt now. I'll try to continue again tomorrow after work to get numbers without my fleet influence.
from the wiki:
Weekly Project: Combat Performance Boost (Tier 3)
Provide all members of your Fleet with a passive boost for the next 5 days.
Boost Type: Improves all of the following Combat Statistics
+20% All Damage (Ground and Space)
+40 All Damage Resistance Rating (Ground and Space)
+10% Speed and Turn Rate (Space)
+10% Run Speed and Dodge (Ground)
WARNING: Slotting any Weekly Project makes your Fleet incapable of slotting any other Weekly Projects. Once any Weekly Project is completed, all Weekly Projects are put onto a shared cooldown for 5 days.
Add your Skillpoints and normal 2% damage resistance accolade passives to that 40% and then apply Diminishing Returns... and that's looking suspiciously close to your reported numbers of 34.7%.
[12.7 Skillpoints + 2 Accolades + 40 FleetBonus] = 54.7 Damage Resistance Magnitude
So it'll be 3*(0.25-((75/(150+drm)*(75/(150+drm))))) = 34.7275% Resistance Total after Diminishing Returns
Perhaps add a few armor consoles to your character on Tribble to get +40 resistance (emulating the Fleet bonus) and compare your stats then?
Question: If this is the same ship and gear, WHY is the numbers between Holodeck and Tribble different? NOT just Resistances.
HULL is 62,055 on Holodeck and 49,611 on Tribble.
Shield facings is 11,386 on Holodeck and 9,023 on Tribble.
Flight speed is cut off in your pics, so can't see that.
Anyhoo....all things being equal....why is there such a big difference there?
(Sorry, I have not finished reading everything so this may have been answered somewhere down the line...I just started reading what I missed yesterday)
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Check the screenshots casidien posted of his Tribble skill choices alongside the ones of those stats.
On Live he has 9/9 points in Structural Integrity and Starship Shield Systems
On Tribble he has 0/3 points in Hull Capacity and Shield Capacity (the "shield" icons under the Lieutenant section)
I guess, skills do make a difference....I just did not realize HOW MUCH until I saw that.
Note to self: check ship stats as well as skill tree points. LOL!
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
No probs.
According to Amicus's skillpoints table, going 9/9 in those skills on Live grants +30% base capacity for both Hull and Shield. On Tribble going 3/3 in the new skills also grants +30% capacity, so they should even out if you take the equivalent skills.
The only skills I know of on Tribble that have been "reduced" from Live are Shield Hardness and Regeneration (see Bort's posts here). These skills technically didn't exist prior to the revamp - you need one point in both of these on Tribble to get the same in-game performance as you're used to seeing on Live, but you can get higher performance by investing more points.
Are you sure about the 30%? He must have changed something else, too.
I am lazy....can not be bothered to check every thing....so I am just going to mess with it on my characters where I can keep track easier.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Yep, but remember that it's +30% BASE capacity.
Other things will be in play too, such as the "auxiliary power configuration: defensive" trait mentioned which also grants extra Hull and Shield Capacity. (And then there are things such as the starship's shield modifier value...)
The figure on the stats screen is the final result, after factoring in the additions from skillpoints and all the other buffs.
Sorted!
This game gets more complicated the closer you look at things...
I will probably be happy just getting things to work the same to Holodeck....which it is not doing, right now.
I mean: I can make the NUMBERS look similar....but performance is off.
Strike all this!
I am making a few errors on my tests....THAT is really what is going on there.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
It's not just new people who will make mistakes.
After having fat fingered quite a few "test set ups" on Tribble, myself, I know it is easy to do.
A lot of it is : lack of labels. And rushing through all 46 space points on already created characters. And, for me, they are still moving abilities around in the tree...not in the same place as the last time I did this.
Silly things like: OOPS! I clicked on "Drain Expertise" column when I meant to click on "Control Expertise"....gosh, I thought I knew where those things were.
It is bound to happen to people, more likely as they move through multiple ALTs.
ON Tribble, the respecs are free, for now. So, not a big deal for test runs. But that will not be the case when this goes "Live" on Holodeck.
Do things like "typos" and "not paying attention" and "rushing through the alts" warrant unlimited amount of respecs by every single player, for every single character, they have in the game?
Would it be nice to have a few extra respecs in my pocket, in case of emergencies. Yes, it would. But, is there any reason why I couldn't buy one? Matter of fact, I am setting up a little kitty of zen from exchanging dilithium, right now...for this exact reason.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
You know the costs of making a mistake, and have already admitted that such mistakes would likely be the result of your own impatience and/or lack of attentiveness. So... don't do that. If you are afraid of the price associated with those mistakes, then slow down, pay attention, and don't make those mistakes.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Your going to make mistakes, but at a certain point, someone or something has to stop holding your hand. Its the way of life, and its how we learn to look, wait, and not rush into alot of things.
Anyway, this current Skill tree on tribble doesnt really allow for silly mistakes across the board, maybe one or two, but not the entire thing. You need to click the ability, then confirm each one individually. It might pain some, but i like it. Allows me, and actually will force alot of people to slow down, maybe even look at each ability and skill point, and make decisions on each one, on how they feel with that persons build, or attempted build.
My opinion of course
Its not flippant, its just not going to lead to a good outcome across the breadth of your customer base. I am not going to TRIBBLE up - I'll have done all the work on a third-party calculator and will have a cheat sheet in hand before I go anywhere near the new panel. I think almost any slow, methodical player will manage to get through it without extreme mishap.
You tell us - does that describe all of the STO customers you want to keep? Because I doubt that it does.
I find most goof-proofing twice as tiresome as the next guy, but its still something you have to do if you want broad appeal. Handrails - human civilization does need them. Launching without PowerCart because of deadlines is excusable. Thinking it's not going to come up in a negative way every single day between launch and finally getting it implemented is less so.
Seriously, not waiting on welfare from Cryptic.
Waiting for SOMEONE ELSE to "goof-proof" things for you is not prudent, either.
I just spent my dilithium on some Zen...earmarked it for Respec Tokens in the new system.
Didn't take long. Didn't take much dilithium, either.
There is still time to prep for doomsday, people. <-- oh this is funny. LOL!
If I don't make any errors...I will have Zen for the down payment on the T-6 Pilot Raptor Bundle. Woo Hoo.
Meantime, I am free from further worries.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Similarly... should the company be concerned about the price of those mistakes, slow down, pay attention, and not make those mistakes likely to occur? (Come on Bort, you knew the moment you posted that someone would point out that it applies to both sides of the discussion...)
I do think it should be made clear that PowerCart functionality is something that makes for a more enjoyable user experience. While this isn't as much of an issue as we level new characters, players who have reached Level 50+ and actually purchase a Respec Token (along with pretty much everyone when this goes to Holodeck on the 12th) will find re-selecting each Skill one at a time to be bothersome indeed compared to the old system. For a process you expect players to spend Zen on, a PowerCart system should be on the short list of things to get done once the Skill Revamp itself is finished (if not before it goes live). If Respecs are slated to be performed at a reasonable cost of in-game currency (EC, dilithium, Marks, etc.) then it's also reasonable to leave the burden on players... but with F2P being (theoretically) built around spending for convenience, such a cumbersome Respec system isn't a very good fit for monetization.
Personally, I'm more inclined to focus on ensuring that players do not in fact lose anything in the process of the Skill Revamp as far as the Skills themselves and the abilities they influence. My own pet peeve is EPS Manifold Efficiency (and Engineering in general feeling like the afterthought section of the Revamp), yet the dev team has been doing a solid job of communicating with testers and has been responding to feedback, so I'm holding out hope on that front (so my Engineers can at least remain comparable to their current capabilities, even if they don't get any new shinies). Once the details of the Skills themselves are sorted out, though, the user experience ought to be addressed...
I've made mistakes with the old system, too. Because you can make so many picks at once, and have to shuffle points with the old system like crazy to unlock a skill training, and avoiding having points you can't spend anymore, there is plenty of error potential and plenty of chances where you get inattentive and make mistakes.
I think people are worrying too much. There will be a free respec, there will probably be some kind of respec sale, Dilithium can be exchanged for Zen...
I still prefer the old system but that could be the dinosaur in me. ;-)
What kind of mistakes do you think are possible in the system that would actually ruin a character so much that someone would just stop playing the game rather than either keeping the mistake or expending Zen/Dilithium/Dollars for a respec?
It's not like like there are "This makes your character totally suck and unable to deal more than 10K DPS" skills at every tier.
If you accidentally pick one point of Control Expertise instead of Shield Restoration, you will probably still be able to beat an Elite Queue if you could do it with the right pick. (Not that such an extreme would even be relevant for a "Casual".)
I'm not saying it's a magic bullet or anything, merely that it's something that makes STO better than the industry standard. If all they want to achieve is that standard, shift Respecs over to an EC cost, toss out the PowerCart, and they've pretty much hit the industry standard right on the nose. That doesn't make it better than the standard in any way, though, and charging Zen makes it fall below that threshold.
But to undo your mistake you will have to pay for it, the old Skill Tree saved me from making a mistake more than once.
Missing one point could be the difference between having 50 points in Control Expertise or 85 points. And the way some of the skills are set up, the difference will be 60 points or 100 points.
That is a BIG deal on the way the program is going to calculate outcomes.
There is no middle ground as there was in the Holodeck tree.
The old tree: a miss placed "point" here or there, it was a smaller mistake.
(Hmm...not sure if Control Expertise is one of those 50-85-100 scores or not.... but I think most people can figure out what I mean. I am the worst with numbers but I eventually saw it)
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
While I'm not going to say that it's impossible to make a mistake during a respec on Holodeck (because I could totally see myself overlooking something), the way you're forced to spend all the points at once and then lock them in, rather than making purchases one at a time, makes it far less likely. I think ditching that requirement to spend all of the points is a great change, but I just wanted to point that out. I think the potential for mistakes while leveling is pretty equal in both systems.
I'd like to see PowerCart make a comeback at some point, too, but my personal pet feature request is the ability to unbuy a point for some dilithium. I don't always want to do a full respec just to correct something about my build, like say I find I'm unhappy with Shield Regeneration and decide I'd be better off taking a point from there and putting it into Hardness instead. It doesn't feel right that I'd have to wipe the slate clean to do that--I never liked it about the old system and this one doesn't address it.