The ONLY reason for this change is not to "make things less complicated", its EXPECTED to grief players into making a mess of it, to buy respecs.
I think that is quite a cynical point of view.
That cynicism is born from having had to pay 4-5 times for the same ships, and all the respecs I have already wasted on them till now. Had I been forewarned they would complete change such a fundamental aspect of the game, I would never have purchased respecs to start with.
Cryptic moved the goal post because the system they designed did not measure up to the balancing of their own additions.
I purchased respecs throughout 6 years of content to get my toons to a state I was happy within that system.
I would expect, that when something is not working correctly, a client is refunded.
So I would expect my respecs to be returned.
Anything other than that is called cynicism.
Actually, this is the second time They've changed the Skill Tree and all we got the last time was a RESET, No Free Tokens.
So technically you should only ask for the ones that you've used since the last time They changed things.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Ever noticed though, that each "expansion" gives you less and less?
I may have a different kind of viewpoint as I bought a LTS just after the game launched, but I have to say compared to other games the amount of free content that STO gets 'inclusive' (in that you don't have to pay for it) is pretty awesome.
Compared to other games you don't have to pay for any of the expansions/area content (just compare this to WoW who charges for each and every expansion/access to area's ONTOP of your subscription).
STO has always given content away completely for free, it only asks players to support the game via micro purchases'. The only other game that comes close to Cryptic's/PWE generosity is LOTR (Lord Of The Rings Online) who are also F2P, but you still have to pay for the expansions.
Getting back to my 'unique' viewpoint; another reason why I view Cryptic/PWE favourably is because when Atari went down the drain and sold STO to PWE, PWE/Cryptic honoured all of the previously bought life time subs - even though it was pretty much money that never entered their own pockets.
I have been highly critical of Cryptic/PWE in the past, but I am the first to admit that they are the most generous companies towards players when it comes to F2P MMO's.
Ever noticed though, that each "expansion" gives you less and less?
I may have a different kind of viewpoint as I bought a LTS just after the game launched, but I have to say compared to other games the amount of free content that STO gets 'inclusive' (in that you don't have to pay for it) is pretty awesome.
Compared to other games you don't have to pay for any of the expansions/area content (just compare this to WoW who charges for each and every expansion/access to area's ONTOP of your subscription).
STO has always given content away completely for free, it only asks players to support the game via micro purchases'. The only other game that comes close to Cryptic's/PWE generosity is LOTR (Lord Of The Rings Online) who are also F2P, but you still have to pay for the expansions.
Getting back to my 'unique' viewpoint; another reason why I view Cryptic/PWE favourably is because when Atari went down the drain and sold STO to PWE, PWE/Cryptic honoured all of the previously bought life time subs - even though it was pretty much money that never entered their own pockets.
I have been highly critical of Cryptic/PWE in the past, but I am the first to admit that they are the most generous companies towards players when it comes to F2P MMO's.
So Much THIS!
I thought for sure we would have to RE-buy our LTS when They announced the changes.
What a relief that was...
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
That cynicism is born from having had to pay 4-5 times for the same ships, and all the respecs I have already wasted on them till now. Had I been forewarned they would complete change such a fundamental aspect of the game, I would never have purchased respecs to start with.
Cryptic moved the goal post because the system they designed did not measure up to the balancing of their own additions.
I purchased respecs throughout 6 years of content to get my toons to a state I was happy within that system.
I would expect, that when something is not working correctly, a client is refunded.
So I would expect my respecs to be returned.
Anything other than that is called cynicism.
So; you bought ships which you regarded as identical to ones you already own, and then complain about it? Sounds like buyer's regret to me; no-one made you "re-buy" those ships, it's purely your own desire to squeeze out every iota of in-game competitiveness. (Personally, I take issue with the whole "same ships" angle anyway - you always get a new ship, with a distinct BOff layout, stats and trait, which just happens to be capable of being made to look like a lower-tier ship. It's a new ship in every respect that matters).
Now, I don't like the lack of a commit function on the new system, either. But *nowhere* did Cryptic ever state they would not redo the skill system (after all they did it once before).
Anyway - STO is like gambling in one respect. Money spent on it is paying for short-term fun, not an investment.
Ever noticed though, that each "expansion" gives you less and less?
I may have a different kind of viewpoint as I bought a LTS just after the game launched, but I have to say compared to other games the amount of free content that STO gets 'inclusive' (in that you don't have to pay for it) is pretty awesome.
Compared to other games you don't have to pay for any of the expansions/area content (just compare this to WoW who charges for each and every expansion/access to area's ONTOP of your subscription).
STO has always given content away completely for free, it only asks players to support the game via micro purchases'. The only other game that comes close to Cryptic's/PWE generosity is LOTR (Lord Of The Rings Online) who are also F2P, but you still have to pay for the expansions.
Getting back to my 'unique' viewpoint; another reason why I view Cryptic/PWE favourably is because when Atari went down the drain and sold STO to PWE, PWE/Cryptic honoured all of the previously bought life time subs - even though it was pretty much money that never entered their own pockets.
I have been highly critical of Cryptic/PWE in the past, but I am the first to admit that they are the most generous companies towards players when it comes to F2P MMO's.
I agree but that doesn't stop them making poor decisions and the current model for the skill tree respec charges is indeed a poor decisions if they want players to experiment with their builds and try different set ups from time to time as they stated in their live stream.
that's why I say giving players the odd chance of a free respec once a month or so would be the wise thing to do, players who want to respec more then this could still pay for extra tokens but it would give the players a chance to try things out every now and then without being penalised for the privilege.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
It's only a 'technical' issue in that they simply (lazily?) copied the Specialization tree mechanics, designed to be an 'over-the-course-of-time' deal, in which you purchase points on an individual basis, and which choices become effective immediately, and are now stuck with that, instead of using the logical, and conceptually superior, single 'Commit' button that belonged to the old skill system.
N.B. I can understand how reworking the whole behind-the-scenes 'Specialization tree mechanics,' just for the skills, could be considered cumbersome. But I'd like to point out that such a time-consuming thingy isn't necessary, either. Were I to program this, all I'd do is make a simple, superimposed, 'faux' GUI for it, which does nothing but simply collect the assigned points, and then batch-supply those choices to the underlying 'Specialization tree' interface upon 'Commit.' Maybe not extremely elegant, but extremely easy to make.
Why do you think that this wasn't considered? Why do you think that such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly? Why do you think whatever abritrary time you decide this should take is actually currently available in the schedule of the parties that would be involved?
It's extremely easy to spitball ideas and prototypes can often be develivered fast. But something that is actually integrated in an existing application and tested for all kinds of scenarios - that's the hard part.
I always love your generic detractions.
But No & LOL, "such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly." It would basically just be a glorified form-processor, that just collects your choices for batch-processing (with an already existing GUI, showing you your choices), plus some minor logic for showing the effects of said choices to the unlock bars. That's all.
It's actually the 'existing application' that got them in trouble to begin with, as the Specialization tree mechanics don't really lend themselves very well for committig skill points in the first place. But, being as that is what they went with, the question now is, How to change things in such a way that individual purchases become a single 'Commit'? (Without having to rewrite the entire underlying skill revamp mechanics). Like I said, I certainly would use the method I outlined, if I were faced with it.
It is kinda pointless as a discussion. The developers are the ones that made their estimates. You can claim they are wrong. Get hired by them and show it, or just accept that they have that estimate.
But if you're indeed a programmer, you should know that words like "only" or "just" are often a warning sign that someone is just underestimating the efforts required.
But maybe you can do it yourself.
There are people that already created a skills UI on the web. The Icons for the skill UI are known. So, write a little program that takes the input from that one web skill UI, and applies it to the game. You should easily be able to create screenshots of the current game's state and use the known icons to find the right spot. Just use some tool that allows you to send mouse clicks to specific pixel positions.
It would probably be a bit crude, but hey, it gets the work done, and you don't need to buy respecs for a mis-click.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Batteries, yeah. Amplitude, good thing. But with EPS Manifold Efficiency. I need at least 5 points in Batteries for a 16.7 sec duration (iirc) to keep the uptime. Without the proper duration, the Trait will be diminished. So I hope Bort will add duration as well.
That was one of my questions that did get answered, sort of, in the Livestream. I say "sort of" because it was an issue that Bort hadn't been aware of and needed further review, since maybe 1% of players had any investment in batteries (apparently there aren't a lot of Engineers that know how the Trait/Skill interacted?). Basically, he said that the Unlocks were intended to be nice little bonuses, and that where an ability required one of those Unlocks to be great is wasn't a problem with the Skill Tree... it's a problem witht he ability itself. So, rather than changing the Unlocks, he's going to be reviewing the ability in order to make sure it remains viable. Having had several members of the 1% (a couple with say 54 Batteries for uptime on a quad EP2x setups and a couple with 84-99 Batteries to maintain good uptime even if I'm only using paired EP2x), that was definitely good thing to hear.
Now I'm just waiting to see what adjustments are made and where he sets the base duration...
As a side note: Yes, hull regen is being added to Engineering Fleet so that it retains that component of the ability in the conversion from Starship Hull Repair -> Hull Restoration/Damage Control.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
It's only a 'technical' issue in that they simply (lazily?) copied the Specialization tree mechanics, designed to be an 'over-the-course-of-time' deal, in which you purchase points on an individual basis, and which choices become effective immediately, and are now stuck with that, instead of using the logical, and conceptually superior, single 'Commit' button that belonged to the old skill system.
N.B. I can understand how reworking the whole behind-the-scenes 'Specialization tree mechanics,' just for the skills, could be considered cumbersome. But I'd like to point out that such a time-consuming thingy isn't necessary, either. Were I to program this, all I'd do is make a simple, superimposed, 'faux' GUI for it, which does nothing but simply collect the assigned points, and then batch-supply those choices to the underlying 'Specialization tree' interface upon 'Commit.' Maybe not extremely elegant, but extremely easy to make.
Why do you think that this wasn't considered? Why do you think that such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly? Why do you think whatever abritrary time you decide this should take is actually currently available in the schedule of the parties that would be involved?
It's extremely easy to spitball ideas and prototypes can often be develivered fast. But something that is actually integrated in an existing application and tested for all kinds of scenarios - that's the hard part.
I always love your generic detractions.
But No & LOL, "such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly." It would basically just be a glorified form-processor, that just collects your choices for batch-processing (with an already existing GUI, showing you your choices), plus some minor logic for showing the effects of said choices to the unlock bars. That's all.
It's actually the 'existing application' that got them in trouble to begin with, as the Specialization tree mechanics don't really lend themselves very well for committig skill points in the first place. But, being as that is what they went with, the question now is, How to change things in such a way that individual purchases become a single 'Commit'? (Without having to rewrite the entire underlying skill revamp mechanics). Like I said, I certainly would use the method I outlined, if I were faced with it.
It is kinda pointless as a discussion. The developers are the ones that made their estimates. You can claim they are wrong. Get hired by them and show it, or just accept that they have that estimate.
But if you're indeed a programmer, you should know that words like "only" or "just" are often a warning sign that someone is just underestimating the efforts required.
But maybe you can do it yourself.
There are people that already created a skills UI on the web. The Icons for the skill UI are known. So, write a little program that takes the input from that one web skill UI, and applies it to the game. You should easily be able to create screenshots of the current game's state and use the known icons to find the right spot. Just use some tool that allows you to send mouse clicks to specific pixel positions.
It would probably be a bit crude, but hey, it gets the work done, and you don't need to buy respecs for a mis-click.
LOL. The latter isn't actually a bad idea of yours. Probably not allowed, though (as I think batch-feeding key presses would constitute using macros and/or tampering with the client). But the idea itself is not bad, really. Obviously, it will go a lot faster if Bort did it on his end (and the batch-processing wouldn't require silly key-presses, but just be fed internally. And, with external macros, there's no guarantee the key-press took, or a way to get easy confirmation on such). Or having to deal with screen-scaling. Seriously, this one is best done by a Dev himself.
Batteries, yeah. Amplitude, good thing. But with EPS Manifold Efficiency. I need at least 5 points in Batteries for a 16.7 sec duration (iirc) to keep the uptime. Without the proper duration, the Trait will be diminished. So I hope Bort will add duration as well.
That was one of my questions that did get answered, sort of, in the Livestream. I say "sort of" because it was an issue that Bort hadn't been aware of and needed further review, since maybe 1% of players had any investment in batteries (apparently there aren't a lot of Engineers that know how the Trait/Skill interacted?). Basically, he said that the Unlocks were intended to be nice little bonuses, and that where an ability required one of those Unlocks to be great is wasn't a problem with the Skill Tree... it's a problem witht he ability itself. So, rather than changing the Unlocks, he's going to be reviewing the ability in order to make sure it remains viable. Having had several members of the 1% (a couple with say 54 Batteries for uptime on a quad EP2x setups and a couple with 84-99 Batteries to maintain good uptime even if I'm only using paired EP2x), that was definitely good thing to hear.
Now I'm just waiting to see what adjustments are made and where he sets the base duration...
Yeah, I think Bort said that maybe they just need to make batteries a little better then. I still hope that includes duration, and not just higher amplitude, as [Amp] (from the Warp Core) is a permanent thingy over time (whereas more batteries amplitude wouldn't mean all that much to me per se: I just want their duration to be long enough to cover the 15 secs global.
Batteries, yeah. Amplitude, good thing. But with EPS Manifold Efficiency. I need at least 5 points in Batteries for a 16.7 sec duration (iirc) to keep the uptime. Without the proper duration, the Trait will be diminished. So I hope Bort will add duration as well.
That was one of my questions that did get answered, sort of, in the Livestream. I say "sort of" because it was an issue that Bort hadn't been aware of and needed further review, since maybe 1% of players had any investment in batteries (apparently there aren't a lot of Engineers that know how the Trait/Skill interacted?). Basically, he said that the Unlocks were intended to be nice little bonuses, and that where an ability required one of those Unlocks to be great is wasn't a problem with the Skill Tree... it's a problem witht he ability itself. So, rather than changing the Unlocks, he's going to be reviewing the ability in order to make sure it remains viable. Having had several members of the 1% (a couple with say 54 Batteries for uptime on a quad EP2x setups and a couple with 84-99 Batteries to maintain good uptime even if I'm only using paired EP2x), that was definitely good thing to hear.
Now I'm just waiting to see what adjustments are made and where he sets the base duration...
Yeah, I think Bort said that maybe they just need to make batteries a little better then. I still hope that includes duration, and not just higher amplitude, as [Amp] (from the Warp Core) is a permanent thingy over time (whereas more batteries amplitude wouldn't mean all that much to me per se: I just want their duration to be long enough to cover the 15 secs global.
Yeah, I'm pretty much hoping for the same based on Bort's comments. Batteries Expertise as an Unlock is simply the conversion of the Batteries Skill, granting 100 rating in Batteries... but because it's a yea or nay decision it becomes almost mandatory for Engineers wishing to maintain the duration of EPS Manifold Efficiency. Something like a 15 sec base duration for that ability would pretty much cover that issue, allowing Engineers to decide whether they wanted to purchase the Unlock or want to slot more EP2x boff abilities to keep their Trait active. Given the focus on making our choices meaningful, I think that's probably the best way to go.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Batteries, yeah. Amplitude, good thing. But with EPS Manifold Efficiency. I need at least 5 points in Batteries for a 16.7 sec duration (iirc) to keep the uptime. Without the proper duration, the Trait will be diminished. So I hope Bort will add duration as well.
That was one of my questions that did get answered, sort of, in the Livestream. I say "sort of" because it was an issue that Bort hadn't been aware of and needed further review, since maybe 1% of players had any investment in batteries (apparently there aren't a lot of Engineers that know how the Trait/Skill interacted?). Basically, he said that the Unlocks were intended to be nice little bonuses, and that where an ability required one of those Unlocks to be great is wasn't a problem with the Skill Tree... it's a problem witht he ability itself. So, rather than changing the Unlocks, he's going to be reviewing the ability in order to make sure it remains viable. Having had several members of the 1% (a couple with say 54 Batteries for uptime on a quad EP2x setups and a couple with 84-99 Batteries to maintain good uptime even if I'm only using paired EP2x), that was definitely good thing to hear.
Now I'm just waiting to see what adjustments are made and where he sets the base duration...
Yeah, I think Bort said that maybe they just need to make batteries a little better then. I still hope that includes duration, and not just higher amplitude, as [Amp] (from the Warp Core) is a permanent thingy over time (whereas more batteries amplitude wouldn't mean all that much to me per se: I just want their duration to be long enough to cover the 15 secs global.
Yeah, I'm pretty much hoping for the same based on Bort's comments. Batteries Expertise as an Unlock is simply the conversion of the Batteries Skill, granting 100 rating in Batteries... but because it's a yea or nay decision it becomes almost mandatory for Engineers wishing to maintain the duration of EPS Manifold Efficiency. Something like a 15 sec base duration for that ability would pretty much cover that issue, allowing Engineers to decide whether they wanted to purchase the Unlock or want to slot more EP2x boff abilities to keep their Trait active. Given the focus on making our choices meaningful, I think that's probably the best way to go.
The duration of this trait is currently 15 seconds on Tribble as a result of this feedback.
Batteries, yeah. Amplitude, good thing. But with EPS Manifold Efficiency. I need at least 5 points in Batteries for a 16.7 sec duration (iirc) to keep the uptime. Without the proper duration, the Trait will be diminished. So I hope Bort will add duration as well.
That was one of my questions that did get answered, sort of, in the Livestream. I say "sort of" because it was an issue that Bort hadn't been aware of and needed further review, since maybe 1% of players had any investment in batteries (apparently there aren't a lot of Engineers that know how the Trait/Skill interacted?). Basically, he said that the Unlocks were intended to be nice little bonuses, and that where an ability required one of those Unlocks to be great is wasn't a problem with the Skill Tree... it's a problem witht he ability itself. So, rather than changing the Unlocks, he's going to be reviewing the ability in order to make sure it remains viable. Having had several members of the 1% (a couple with say 54 Batteries for uptime on a quad EP2x setups and a couple with 84-99 Batteries to maintain good uptime even if I'm only using paired EP2x), that was definitely good thing to hear.
Now I'm just waiting to see what adjustments are made and where he sets the base duration...
As a side note: Yes, hull regen is being added to Engineering Fleet so that it retains that component of the ability in the conversion from Starship Hull Repair -> Hull Restoration/Damage Control.
Isn't that change already on Tribble?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It's only a 'technical' issue in that they simply (lazily?) copied the Specialization tree mechanics, designed to be an 'over-the-course-of-time' deal, in which you purchase points on an individual basis, and which choices become effective immediately, and are now stuck with that, instead of using the logical, and conceptually superior, single 'Commit' button that belonged to the old skill system.
N.B. I can understand how reworking the whole behind-the-scenes 'Specialization tree mechanics,' just for the skills, could be considered cumbersome. But I'd like to point out that such a time-consuming thingy isn't necessary, either. Were I to program this, all I'd do is make a simple, superimposed, 'faux' GUI for it, which does nothing but simply collect the assigned points, and then batch-supply those choices to the underlying 'Specialization tree' interface upon 'Commit.' Maybe not extremely elegant, but extremely easy to make.
Why do you think that this wasn't considered? Why do you think that such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly? Why do you think whatever abritrary time you decide this should take is actually currently available in the schedule of the parties that would be involved?
It's extremely easy to spitball ideas and prototypes can often be develivered fast. But something that is actually integrated in an existing application and tested for all kinds of scenarios - that's the hard part.
I always love your generic detractions.
But No & LOL, "such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly." It would basically just be a glorified form-processor, that just collects your choices for batch-processing (with an already existing GUI, showing you your choices), plus some minor logic for showing the effects of said choices to the unlock bars. That's all.
It's actually the 'existing application' that got them in trouble to begin with, as the Specialization tree mechanics don't really lend themselves very well for committig skill points in the first place. But, being as that is what they went with, the question now is, How to change things in such a way that individual purchases become a single 'Commit'? (Without having to rewrite the entire underlying skill revamp mechanics). Like I said, I certainly would use the method I outlined, if I were faced with it.
It is kinda pointless as a discussion. The developers are the ones that made their estimates. You can claim they are wrong. Get hired by them and show it, or just accept that they have that estimate.
But if you're indeed a programmer, you should know that words like "only" or "just" are often a warning sign that someone is just underestimating the efforts required.
But maybe you can do it yourself.
There are people that already created a skills UI on the web. The Icons for the skill UI are known. So, write a little program that takes the input from that one web skill UI, and applies it to the game. You should easily be able to create screenshots of the current game's state and use the known icons to find the right spot. Just use some tool that allows you to send mouse clicks to specific pixel positions.
It would probably be a bit crude, but hey, it gets the work done, and you don't need to buy respecs for a mis-click.
LOL. The latter isn't actually a bad idea of yours. Probably not allowed, though (as I think batch-feeding key presses would constitute using macros and/or tampering with the client).
Yes, you're probably right.
But the idea itself is not bad, really. Obviously, it will go a lot faster if Bort did it on his end (and the batch-processing wouldn't require silly key-presses, but just be fed internally. And, with external macros, there's no guarantee the key-press took, or a way to get easy confirmation on such). Or having to deal with screen-scaling. Seriously, this one is best done by a Dev himself.
So trust them when they say it would take a programmer an amount of time they don't have available before the release.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Mostly, but they removed any scaling at all as of that build. Had to test to confirm other posts to that effect before I could comment on that specifically. Speaking of which...
Batteries, yeah. Amplitude, good thing. But with EPS Manifold Efficiency. I need at least 5 points in Batteries for a 16.7 sec duration (iirc) to keep the uptime. Without the proper duration, the Trait will be diminished. So I hope Bort will add duration as well.
That was one of my questions that did get answered, sort of, in the Livestream. I say "sort of" because it was an issue that Bort hadn't been aware of and needed further review, since maybe 1% of players had any investment in batteries (apparently there aren't a lot of Engineers that know how the Trait/Skill interacted?). Basically, he said that the Unlocks were intended to be nice little bonuses, and that where an ability required one of those Unlocks to be great is wasn't a problem with the Skill Tree... it's a problem witht he ability itself. So, rather than changing the Unlocks, he's going to be reviewing the ability in order to make sure it remains viable. Having had several members of the 1% (a couple with say 54 Batteries for uptime on a quad EP2x setups and a couple with 84-99 Batteries to maintain good uptime even if I'm only using paired EP2x), that was definitely good thing to hear.
Now I'm just waiting to see what adjustments are made and where he sets the base duration...
Yeah, I think Bort said that maybe they just need to make batteries a little better then. I still hope that includes duration, and not just higher amplitude, as [Amp] (from the Warp Core) is a permanent thingy over time (whereas more batteries amplitude wouldn't mean all that much to me per se: I just want their duration to be long enough to cover the 15 secs global.
Yeah, I'm pretty much hoping for the same based on Bort's comments. Batteries Expertise as an Unlock is simply the conversion of the Batteries Skill, granting 100 rating in Batteries... but because it's a yea or nay decision it becomes almost mandatory for Engineers wishing to maintain the duration of EPS Manifold Efficiency. Something like a 15 sec base duration for that ability would pretty much cover that issue, allowing Engineers to decide whether they wanted to purchase the Unlock or want to slot more EP2x boff abilities to keep their Trait active. Given the focus on making our choices meaningful, I think that's probably the best way to go.
The duration of this trait is currently 15 seconds on Tribble as a result of this feedback.
...but apparently removed any scaling of duration with the Batteries Skill->Unlock. The improved base duration helps, but the removal of scaling sort of negates the impact of making the choice to invest in the Unlock and nerfs the duration overall for several of my own characters. I'm going to be completely honest and say that the duration of EPS Manifold Efficiency and the Red Matter Capacitor was the only reason that I invested in Batteries, and removal of improved duration removes any motivation I have to choose that Unlock in the same manner that it was mandatory in the previous build.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
A long time ago I used to be a big forum 'moaner'. It was probably a throwback of my resentment that Cryptic changed the game over from a subscription based model, to a free to play model.
When it went 'free to play' I was very peed off. Very peed off indeed. Especially when I was told I would 'only' get 500 'zen' points a month for my 'investment' in a life time subscription.
Since then, a lot of water has passed under the bridge. Lifetime subbers got quite a few perks added on top of the monthly stipend, and I have come to realise - that when a business switches hands, the company buying it is not always obliged to take on 'old customer debts'.
The fact that Cryptic/PWE did not cancel lifetime subs paid to Atari has always made me feel very grateful. And since they moved the to 'F2P' format, I think players have benefited even more. The fact they don't charge for any content/'seasons' is a big plus for me. WoW charges a sub, and still asks you to pay for updates via content/'seasons' and access to various parts of the world.
I used to feel very bitter towards Cryptic - (especially since they have often made promises they have not kept - such as weekly/monthly episodes.
Now however I feel more like a tenant who is living 'rent free'.
They may not always do what I would like, or give me all the stuff I would like to have (or as easily as I would like to have it). But they are essentially giving the whole game away for free. And the only thing they ask for is that 'we' (and I say 'we' in comma's because not everybody gives a single cent to the game) Buy things from them now and again (as overpriced as 'we' may think they are).
No, they don't always do the 'right' thing (as we deem it to be) and yes, they will often monetize anything that looks profitable. But at the end of the day they still give every single player the opportunity to play the game (the whole game) without laying down one single red 'cent'.
I have not read the whole thread, but know @borticuscryptic is reading here, so a question/suggestion.
Since we can not have powercarting while respeccing...
How feasible would it be to hook up a skill UI simulation to, let's say, the numerous holodecks in game at academies and fleet starbases or maybe even on ship interiors?
You could go there and open a UI that is basically a clone of the skill point UI, but is not connected to your character, so would allow infinite restarts.
That would allow to simulate a complete skill point distribution, doesn't require a change to the new system and prevents serious mistakes.it would make third party skill planers redundant.
The only thing you can't do with it is to test out the build before committing, but you couldn't do that under the old system either.
Since we can not have powercarting while respeccing...
How feasible would it be to hook up a skill UI simulation to, let's say, the numerous holodecks in game at academies and fleet starbases or maybe even on ship interiors?
You could go there and open a UI that is basically a clone of the skill point UI, but is not connected to your character, so would allow infinite restarts.
Read what you just wrote. Does that not sound dozens, if not hundreds of times more complicated than just plain adding the PowerCart function?
I apologize if that came off as solely negative; the intent was merely to provide feedback on the current adjustment, in the hopes that further tinkering is possible. Having been around since the days of Tribble Test Weekends, etc. I can say wholeheartedly that the efforts with this Skill Revamp have been the best example of testing and iteration based upon feedback that I have seen since I started playing. The dev team absolutely deserves credit for that, and I'd take this level of responsiveness over a promotional Tribble any day.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I think that is quite a cynical point of view. I personally don't like the changes and don't see any need for them, but a skill revamp has been one of the most requested updates on the forums for quite a long time. ...
Where? TBH I've seen way more posts asking for customizable interiors and an endgame Connie than updating the skill tree.
^^ This. Frankly, I have *never* seen a post asking for a new skill system. Like ever. LOL. I've seen posts for customizable interiors (my own posts included), or endgame Connies, but never post in the nature of 'Sigh, when are we ever going to get a new skill system?'
I've been here since the beginning and the skill system revamp has been requested for a long time. People gave up asking for it years ago because they figured it was pointless, everyone knew it needed to happen and we just waited for Cryptic to do it.
A few people bitching about a T6 Connie does not make it a more important issue. This is the most important update since F2P, perhaps even more.
Ever noticed though, that each "expansion" gives you less and less?
1) Legacy Of Romulus : a whole new faction/species, a huge storyline for them, a homeworld filled with missions, lots of surrounding patrols etc
2) Solanae: a huge playable sphere, with lots of areas, storylines, missions, ships, Undine battlezone etc
3) Delta Rising: a whole freeking quadrant, a huge Kobali homeworld to run around on with a huge amount of content and story, dozens of patrols, new Rep trees, etc
then
4) Iconian: a rep tree, a Krenim base
5) new Dawn: a rep tree, a battlezone that was a carbon copy of the Undine one (almost), admiralty
6) 11.5: skills revamp, more admiralty
1,2 and 3 are expansions. 4,5 and 6 were updates. It stands to reason they would come with less content.
correction only 1 & 3 are expansions.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Think what you want about my credentials, I am not all that concered but if you read the post that I was responding to, you would know enough info to grasp Cryptics decision making process for this effort. It doesnt take having access to internal info to figure what was going on
Keep in mind that there are three facets of a project/program: Scope (quality, performance) Cost Schedule
"Pick two"
A project can only prioritize two (max), at the remainders expense.
The other person stated that the reason why Cryptic decided not to fix the "accept" function, and place it at the end, resulting in making players pay money (or the equivalent) for minor mistakes (clicking the wrong thing and moving on), was they wanted it released for some event.
They knew they had the issue but decided to move anyways, and decided that having the players fit the bill, instead of crashing a revised schedule to fix the problem, in time for the event.
Cryptics decision shows that they made the Schedule the top priority for the event, and Cost the other must have. The expense has to be Scope, there is no other area to take from, which is why people will have to pay for mistakes. If you've been reading this forum, you can tell that people are considering it a performance/quality issue. All so they can show a partially improved system that isnt ready for prime time because what should be a simple, basic function got in the way of an event schedule.
Whats worse is that Cryptics mitigation plan is to give us two free respecs, really?
Why not have a reasonable grace period, on Holodeck (not everyone uses Tribble) and take time to fix the issue? The answer is that they arent concerned with the Voice of the Customer on this issue, and are going to say "working as intended" (besides knowing that itsa problem, and just shrugging thier shoulders), and "The new skills system is great, and the players love it!", and Scope was chopped to satisfy schedule and cost, and its not like Cryptic hasnt done this before.
I will not disagree that the new system will bring quality in some areas but its exremely bad decision making on a rushed product, especially when it comes to money, its even worse to make the comment that had been made, so overtly, that is parallel to "let them eat cake". Never leave the customerholding the bag.While I have no intentions of being personal with you, if you can't/won't see that, I (nor anyone else) can help you.
Given their sales pitch for 'experimenting with builds' and such Id hoped for something like DCUO's armory system where we could save builds and quick hop to them out of combat.
Loadouts is kinda like the Armory system. The big difference though, is that in DCUO, you can reset your skill points with in game cash rather than having to spend real money.
100,000 EC to reset skills would be decent. Newer players will be cautious of where their skill points go and veteran players will have the funds to experiment/adjust for different scenarios.
Comments
Actually, this is the second time They've changed the Skill Tree and all we got the last time was a RESET, No Free Tokens.
So technically you should only ask for the ones that you've used since the last time They changed things.
As Willy Wonka would say...
And that's called..., Optimism??
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I may have a different kind of viewpoint as I bought a LTS just after the game launched, but I have to say compared to other games the amount of free content that STO gets 'inclusive' (in that you don't have to pay for it) is pretty awesome.
Compared to other games you don't have to pay for any of the expansions/area content (just compare this to WoW who charges for each and every expansion/access to area's ONTOP of your subscription).
STO has always given content away completely for free, it only asks players to support the game via micro purchases'. The only other game that comes close to Cryptic's/PWE generosity is LOTR (Lord Of The Rings Online) who are also F2P, but you still have to pay for the expansions.
Getting back to my 'unique' viewpoint; another reason why I view Cryptic/PWE favourably is because when Atari went down the drain and sold STO to PWE, PWE/Cryptic honoured all of the previously bought life time subs - even though it was pretty much money that never entered their own pockets.
I have been highly critical of Cryptic/PWE in the past, but I am the first to admit that they are the most generous companies towards players when it comes to F2P MMO's.
So Much THIS!
I thought for sure we would have to RE-buy our LTS when They announced the changes.
What a relief that was...
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
So; you bought ships which you regarded as identical to ones you already own, and then complain about it? Sounds like buyer's regret to me; no-one made you "re-buy" those ships, it's purely your own desire to squeeze out every iota of in-game competitiveness. (Personally, I take issue with the whole "same ships" angle anyway - you always get a new ship, with a distinct BOff layout, stats and trait, which just happens to be capable of being made to look like a lower-tier ship. It's a new ship in every respect that matters).
Now, I don't like the lack of a commit function on the new system, either. But *nowhere* did Cryptic ever state they would not redo the skill system (after all they did it once before).
Anyway - STO is like gambling in one respect. Money spent on it is paying for short-term fun, not an investment.
I agree but that doesn't stop them making poor decisions and the current model for the skill tree respec charges is indeed a poor decisions if they want players to experiment with their builds and try different set ups from time to time as they stated in their live stream.
that's why I say giving players the odd chance of a free respec once a month or so would be the wise thing to do, players who want to respec more then this could still pay for extra tokens but it would give the players a chance to try things out every now and then without being penalised for the privilege.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
It is kinda pointless as a discussion. The developers are the ones that made their estimates. You can claim they are wrong. Get hired by them and show it, or just accept that they have that estimate.
But if you're indeed a programmer, you should know that words like "only" or "just" are often a warning sign that someone is just underestimating the efforts required.
But maybe you can do it yourself.
There are people that already created a skills UI on the web. The Icons for the skill UI are known. So, write a little program that takes the input from that one web skill UI, and applies it to the game. You should easily be able to create screenshots of the current game's state and use the known icons to find the right spot. Just use some tool that allows you to send mouse clicks to specific pixel positions.
It would probably be a bit crude, but hey, it gets the work done, and you don't need to buy respecs for a mis-click.
That was one of my questions that did get answered, sort of, in the Livestream. I say "sort of" because it was an issue that Bort hadn't been aware of and needed further review, since maybe 1% of players had any investment in batteries (apparently there aren't a lot of Engineers that know how the Trait/Skill interacted?). Basically, he said that the Unlocks were intended to be nice little bonuses, and that where an ability required one of those Unlocks to be great is wasn't a problem with the Skill Tree... it's a problem witht he ability itself. So, rather than changing the Unlocks, he's going to be reviewing the ability in order to make sure it remains viable. Having had several members of the 1% (a couple with say 54 Batteries for uptime on a quad EP2x setups and a couple with 84-99 Batteries to maintain good uptime even if I'm only using paired EP2x), that was definitely good thing to hear.
Now I'm just waiting to see what adjustments are made and where he sets the base duration...
As a side note: Yes, hull regen is being added to Engineering Fleet so that it retains that component of the ability in the conversion from Starship Hull Repair -> Hull Restoration/Damage Control.
LOL. The latter isn't actually a bad idea of yours.
Yeah, I think Bort said that maybe they just need to make batteries a little better then. I still hope that includes duration, and not just higher amplitude, as [Amp] (from the Warp Core) is a permanent thingy over time (whereas more batteries amplitude wouldn't mean all that much to me per se: I just want their duration to be long enough to cover the 15 secs global.
Yeah, I'm pretty much hoping for the same based on Bort's comments. Batteries Expertise as an Unlock is simply the conversion of the Batteries Skill, granting 100 rating in Batteries... but because it's a yea or nay decision it becomes almost mandatory for Engineers wishing to maintain the duration of EPS Manifold Efficiency. Something like a 15 sec base duration for that ability would pretty much cover that issue, allowing Engineers to decide whether they wanted to purchase the Unlock or want to slot more EP2x boff abilities to keep their Trait active. Given the focus on making our choices meaningful, I think that's probably the best way to go.
The duration of this trait is currently 15 seconds on Tribble as a result of this feedback.
Isn't that change already on Tribble?
So trust them when they say it would take a programmer an amount of time they don't have available before the release.
...but apparently removed any scaling of duration with the Batteries Skill->Unlock. The improved base duration helps, but the removal of scaling sort of negates the impact of making the choice to invest in the Unlock and nerfs the duration overall for several of my own characters. I'm going to be completely honest and say that the duration of EPS Manifold Efficiency and the Red Matter Capacitor was the only reason that I invested in Batteries, and removal of improved duration removes any motivation I have to choose that Unlock in the same manner that it was mandatory in the previous build.
A long time ago I used to be a big forum 'moaner'. It was probably a throwback of my resentment that Cryptic changed the game over from a subscription based model, to a free to play model.
When it went 'free to play' I was very peed off. Very peed off indeed. Especially when I was told I would 'only' get 500 'zen' points a month for my 'investment' in a life time subscription.
Since then, a lot of water has passed under the bridge. Lifetime subbers got quite a few perks added on top of the monthly stipend, and I have come to realise - that when a business switches hands, the company buying it is not always obliged to take on 'old customer debts'.
The fact that Cryptic/PWE did not cancel lifetime subs paid to Atari has always made me feel very grateful. And since they moved the to 'F2P' format, I think players have benefited even more. The fact they don't charge for any content/'seasons' is a big plus for me. WoW charges a sub, and still asks you to pay for updates via content/'seasons' and access to various parts of the world.
I used to feel very bitter towards Cryptic - (especially since they have often made promises they have not kept - such as weekly/monthly episodes.
Now however I feel more like a tenant who is living 'rent free'.
They may not always do what I would like, or give me all the stuff I would like to have (or as easily as I would like to have it). But they are essentially giving the whole game away for free. And the only thing they ask for is that 'we' (and I say 'we' in comma's because not everybody gives a single cent to the game) Buy things from them now and again (as overpriced as 'we' may think they are).
No, they don't always do the 'right' thing (as we deem it to be) and yes, they will often monetize anything that looks profitable. But at the end of the day they still give every single player the opportunity to play the game (the whole game) without laying down one single red 'cent'.
Since we can not have powercarting while respeccing...
How feasible would it be to hook up a skill UI simulation to, let's say, the numerous holodecks in game at academies and fleet starbases or maybe even on ship interiors?
You could go there and open a UI that is basically a clone of the skill point UI, but is not connected to your character, so would allow infinite restarts.
That would allow to simulate a complete skill point distribution, doesn't require a change to the new system and prevents serious mistakes.it would make third party skill planers redundant.
The only thing you can't do with it is to test out the build before committing, but you couldn't do that under the old system either.
Read what you just wrote. Does that not sound dozens, if not hundreds of times more complicated than just plain adding the PowerCart function?
I apologize if that came off as solely negative; the intent was merely to provide feedback on the current adjustment, in the hopes that further tinkering is possible. Having been around since the days of Tribble Test Weekends, etc. I can say wholeheartedly that the efforts with this Skill Revamp have been the best example of testing and iteration based upon feedback that I have seen since I started playing. The dev team absolutely deserves credit for that, and I'd take this level of responsiveness over a promotional Tribble any day.
(I'd still take a Skill Revamp Tribble, though
^^ This. Frankly, I have *never* seen a post asking for a new skill system. Like ever. LOL. I've seen posts for customizable interiors (my own posts included), or endgame Connies, but never post in the nature of 'Sigh, when are we ever going to get a new skill system?'
A few people bitching about a T6 Connie does not make it a more important issue. This is the most important update since F2P, perhaps even more.
The absence of recent bitching means nothing.
correction only 1 & 3 are expansions.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Think what you want about my credentials, I am not all that concered but if you read the post that I was responding to, you would know enough info to grasp Cryptics decision making process for this effort. It doesnt take having access to internal info to figure what was going on
Keep in mind that there are three facets of a project/program:
Scope (quality, performance)
Cost
Schedule
"Pick two"
A project can only prioritize two (max), at the remainders expense.
The other person stated that the reason why Cryptic decided not to fix the "accept" function, and place it at the end, resulting in making players pay money (or the equivalent) for minor mistakes (clicking the wrong thing and moving on), was they wanted it released for some event.
They knew they had the issue but decided to move anyways, and decided that having the players fit the bill, instead of crashing a revised schedule to fix the problem, in time for the event.
Cryptics decision shows that they made the Schedule the top priority for the event, and Cost the other must have. The expense has to be Scope, there is no other area to take from, which is why people will have to pay for mistakes. If you've been reading this forum, you can tell that people are considering it a performance/quality issue. All so they can show a partially improved system that isnt ready for prime time because what should be a simple, basic function got in the way of an event schedule.
Whats worse is that Cryptics mitigation plan is to give us two free respecs, really?
Why not have a reasonable grace period, on Holodeck (not everyone uses Tribble) and take time to fix the issue? The answer is that they arent concerned with the Voice of the Customer on this issue, and are going to say "working as intended" (besides knowing that itsa problem, and just shrugging thier shoulders), and "The new skills system is great, and the players love it!", and Scope was chopped to satisfy schedule and cost, and its not like Cryptic hasnt done this before.
I will not disagree that the new system will bring quality in some areas but its exremely bad decision making on a rushed product, especially when it comes to money, its even worse to make the comment that had been made, so overtly, that is parallel to "let them eat cake". Never leave the customerholding the bag.While I have no intentions of being personal with you, if you can't/won't see that, I (nor anyone else) can help you.
100,000 EC to reset skills would be decent. Newer players will be cautious of where their skill points go and veteran players will have the funds to experiment/adjust for different scenarios.