if it doesn't need to be paid for, it's free (especially considering DoE is one of if not the easiest quest in the game, even on hell, since it's the first)
and i don't see how D2 has 'most of the things an MMO has'...if it did, i'd be able to rearrange the HUD or see a chat box (and no, the chat bar you get on hitting Enter doesn't count)
It had the ability to do team play with people from almost anywhere in a game world that existed on a central server and not a user pc. Also, it had an in-game economy of sorts that was driven by players trading gold and various commodities.
if it doesn't need to be paid for, it's free (especially considering DoE is one of if not the easiest quest in the game, even on hell, since it's the first)
and i don't see how D2 has 'most of the things an MMO has'...if it did, i'd be able to rearrange the HUD or see a chat box (and no, the chat bar you get on hitting Enter doesn't count)
It had the ability to do team play with people from almost anywhere in a game world that existed on a central server and not a user pc. Also, it had an in-game economy of sorts that was driven by players trading gold and various commodities.
But as a counter-example, you have games like Diablo 2 where the only "free" respec was to make a new character. So yeah, different games handle it different ways.
But as a counter-counter-example, you have games like Diablo 3!!! where you get UNLIMITED FREE respecs whenever you want. So progressive games are getting better and better at handling this situation.
STO is going backwards. Not just backwards from the gaming world, but backwards inside its own game.
That's DEFINITELY what you want to showcase when getting new players......
Putting in a new system JUST to sell respec tokens? Did some smart guy in a meeting see that respec tokens weren't selling too well and decided the best thing to do was a massive change to the whole system, hoping to sell more through trial and error?
I seriously hope this backfires massively.
A few guys build a cookie cutter build for eng/sci/tac. Every single player then picks their one, and no one ever buys respec tokens. Also no one buys ships anymore since it costs $10 just to try it out. (Not including ship price).
They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
(it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot . WTF kind of game engine do they have, something programmed on punch cards???
Okay, the DEVs seriously need a "Confirm" button for the new skill system; why it's not there is beyond me.
It's either that or increase the cap on skill points to the point where all the skill trees can be filled...eventually; almost like how they do it with specialization points.
One of these two things need to happen before the news skill system is released. otherwise PWE will only be shooting themselves in the foot, if they're lucky.
They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
(it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot . WTF kind of game engine do they have, something programmed on punch cards???
Sorry to admit it but when I read that one I asked myself the very same thing.
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They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
(it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot . WTF kind of game engine do they have, something programmed on punch cards???
It's less of a matter of it being too difficult with the game engine and more about them needing the time to get it done. Everything that they do in this game requires programming time to do. The new skill revamp had an implementation time of four months prior to it coming onto tribble. They have a time table that they have to get season 11.5 out and to go back and add in the programming to allow us to set up our skills like we could before would delay the launch of 11.5 which they don't want to do. They need to have it out for the public in time for people to be able to fully experience it for a few months before ST Las Vegas.
Okay, the DEVs seriously need a "Confirm" button for the new skill system; why it's not there is beyond me.
It's either that or increase the cap on skill points to the point where all the skill trees can be filled...eventually; almost like how they do it with specialization points.
One of these two things need to happen before the news skill system is released. otherwise PWE will only be shooting themselves in the foot, if they're lucky.
I stated the reason for the confirm button not being around above. As for filling up all the points, that will never happen. If the previous skill system never allowed us to fill everything up, the revamp system won't allow it either.
They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
(it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot . WTF kind of game engine do they have, something programmed on punch cards???
Yes, punch cards! But you have to punch them individually! :P
@vegeta50024 I understand and believe what you were saying about Cryptics release schedule to be the truth.
As someone who works in a firm that everything is a formal project and has a degree in project management (and certs to back it up), I am appalled that Cryptic decided to throw Scope (quality in this case) to the waste basket, in favor of schedule.
I know that pressure to meet the target "milestones" is great, even so more is the pressure put on by the voice of the customer, after the release of a product that the "simple things" don't work. The ability to commit at the end of the build is such a "simple thing" that will upset players, when they need to buy reset tokens because of an errant click.
They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
(it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot . WTF kind of game engine do they have, something programmed on punch cards???
Yes, punch cards! But you have to punch them individually! :P
That's how you made punch cards...individually.
You handed your completed stack of cards to the computer operator...and went home. The next day you came in and were handed back the stack and told if your program ran or not. That was IT for debugging user-friendliness. Then you got to go through your stack ONE CARD AT A TIME to find where your error was, and repeat the process. One day or more PER ERROR.
And may all the gods help you if you dropped your stack of cards on the ground, because there went your afternoon just trying to get them back in order.
When I was in college and used to complain about "syntax error in line 3596" being unhelpful, my mother (who was a programmer in the punch card days) just laughed and laughed.
ON Topic: I agree that making Respec Tokens free would completely alleviate the problem, even if only until they can take the time to get PowerCart functionality back.
Alternatively, increase the Skill points you eventually can get to the point where you CAN fill every tree (as with the Specialization System). True, the only difference between endgame captains would then be in their Traits (which can be rearranged as you like), but at least nobody could "mis-spec" skills by errors of commission or omission.
But unless one of those solutions is implemented, I fear there may be a lot of angry people, new AND old.
They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
(it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
So it's One Click At A Time, Dear Friends...
Arent we able to do that currently with the Live Skill Tree on Holodeck? If so, then thats a bunch of BS.
They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
(it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
So it's One Click At A Time, Dear Friends...
Arent we able to do that currently with the Live Skill Tree on Holodeck? If so, then thats a bunch of BS.
The new Skill Tree is based on the new programming that They set up for the Specialization Trees, not the old programming for the current Skill Chart.
That's why it's now going to be "Pick & Click" for each point.
They MIGHT try to figure out a way at a much later date, to incorporate the "Choose All & Click" method, but I wouldn't count on it.
C'est la vie
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
@vegeta50024 I understand and believe what you were saying about Cryptics release schedule to be the truth.
As someone who works in a firm that everything is a formal project and has a degree in project management (and certs to back it up), I am appalled that Cryptic decided to throw Scope (quality in this case) to the waste basket, in favor of schedule.
Just because you have a degree in project management (or at least pretend to have one on the internet) does not give you any special insights into their development process or their project. You do not know business value or cost, you lack any knowledge about the technical insights. You're just as clueless as the rest of us, just with a fancier background.
The new skill system has many improvements over the old. It is qualitiatively better, at least by their estimation (and I tend to agree). The skills are more clearly defined, are more consistent in effects, they are better explained. The whole process of selecting skills is easier, as you don't need to shuffle skill points around with variable skill point cost while balancing it with minimum skill point expenditure per tier and trying to not end up with points left unpsent . You are no longer forced to sacrifice space ability for ground or vice versa.
That's a lot of "quality" that they decided to release earlier, rathern than forcing people to stick with an obvious lower quality system. Just because it could even be better is not autoamtically a reason to delay a feature further.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I refuse to believe this didn't occur to anyone on the development team prior to players raising the objection. This is a deliberate, cynical QOL downgrade to boost sales of respec token.
I'm just as cynical as anyone, but I honestly don't believe that to be the case here. Bort explained that adding the feature comes with technical issues and limitations that would apparently be very time consuming and difficult to implement properly. I'm inclined to believe this because they are allowing us free use of Tribble to test builds before committing skills on the live server. They're also giving us essentially 2 free respecs per character to start.
I believe it is indeed a technical issue, but it's one I believe should be addressed even if that means a significant delay in making the system available. If they're guilty of anything in my opinion, it's underestimating what a seriously severe limitation this really is. I would much rather wait for a system that's totally complete then have a system with a clearly broken mechanic pushed live just to avoid delay.
It's only a 'technical' issue in that they simply (lazily?) copied the Specialization tree mechanics, designed to be an 'over-the-course-of-time' deal, in which you purchase points on an individual basis, and which choices become effective immediately, and are now stuck with that, instead of using the logical, and conceptually superior, single 'Commit' button that belonged to the old skill system.
The Devs' rationale, no offense, to keep the 'Specialization tree mechanics' has been rather contrived (needing to stand at the skill trainer for too long!? Wut?!). And yet, standing at the skill trainer, shifting stuff around a bit, until you're satisfied with it all, is *exactly* what needs to happen.
How the [add liberal adjective] do they expect us to figure out effects based on previous or future selections, or how possible selections could impact other abilities.
The previous system allowed precisely for that, before committed the build.
Now its a complete shot in the dark. The ONLY reason for this change is not to "make things less complicated", its EXPECTED to grief players into making a mess of it, to buy respecs.
Nothing like selling something players already paid for. Modus Operandi with this company.
The ONLY reason for this change is not to "make things less complicated", its EXPECTED to grief players into making a mess of it, to buy respecs.
I think that is quite a cynical point of view. I personally don't like the changes and don't see any need for them, but a skill revamp has been one of the most requested updates on the forums for quite a long time. I doubt very much that Cryptic is doing it to 'grief' its own players/customers.
I know Cryptic likes to make money (who doesn't?), but I also feel they do strike the right balance when it comes to monetization vs F2P; infact they give away far more for free than any other F2P game that I know of, and do not charge for any Episodic content or access to any area's of the game either (also quite rare in the world of F2P, hell even WoW charges people for access to new content/area's and that has a subscription based model)
So I think you may be being a little unfair in your assessment.
It's only a 'technical' issue in that they simply (lazily?) copied the Specialization tree mechanics, designed to be an 'over-the-course-of-time' deal, in which you purchase points on an individual basis, and which choices become effective immediately, and are now stuck with that, instead of using the logical, and conceptually superior, single 'Commit' button that belonged to the old skill system.
N.B. I can understand how reworking the whole behind-the-scenes 'Specialization tree mechanics,' just for the skills, could be considered cumbersome. But I'd like to point out that such a time-consuming thingy isn't necessary, either. Were I to program this, all I'd do is make a simple, superimposed, 'faux' GUI for it, which does nothing but simply collect the assigned points, and then batch-supply those choices to the underlying 'Specialization tree' interface upon 'Commit.' Maybe not extremely elegant, but extremely easy to make.
The ONLY reason for this change is not to "make things less complicated", its EXPECTED to grief players into making a mess of it, to buy respecs.
I think that is quite a cynical point of view.
That cynicism is born from having had to pay 4-5 times for the same ships, and all the respecs I have already wasted on them till now. Had I been forewarned they would complete change such a fundamental aspect of the game, I would never have purchased respecs to start with.
Cryptic moved the goal post because the system they designed did not measure up to the balancing of their own additions.
I purchased respecs throughout 6 years of content to get my toons to a state I was happy within that system.
I would expect, that when something is not working correctly, a client is refunded.
It's only a 'technical' issue in that they simply (lazily?) copied the Specialization tree mechanics, designed to be an 'over-the-course-of-time' deal, in which you purchase points on an individual basis, and which choices become effective immediately, and are now stuck with that, instead of using the logical, and conceptually superior, single 'Commit' button that belonged to the old skill system.
N.B. I can understand how reworking the whole behind-the-scenes 'Specialization tree mechanics,' just for the skills, could be considered cumbersome. But I'd like to point out that such a time-consuming thingy isn't necessary, either. Were I to program this, all I'd do is make a simple, superimposed, 'faux' GUI for it, which does nothing but simply collect the assigned points, and then batch-supply those choices to the underlying 'Specialization tree' interface upon 'Commit.' Maybe not extremely elegant, but extremely easy to make.
Why do you think that this wasn't considered? Why do you think that such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly? Why do you think whatever abritrary time you decide this should take is actually currently available in the schedule of the parties that would be involved?
It's extremely easy to spitball ideas and prototypes can often be develivered fast. But something that is actually integrated in an existing application and tested for all kinds of scenarios - that's the hard part.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The ONLY reason for this change is not to "make things less complicated", its EXPECTED to grief players into making a mess of it, to buy respecs.
I think that is quite a cynical point of view.
That cynicism is born from having had to pay 4-5 times for the same ships, and all the respecs I have already wasted on them till now.
I agree to a certain point; but selling ships is how Cryptic makes money, which pays for the servers, which pays for the game.
Cryptic has to make money somehow to keep the servers running and to pay staff wages; they can do this either by charging for non-essential items (such as charging you again for the next tier of ship) or by charging for content and access to area's.
How would you personally like them to fund the game? If it makes you feel any better you could always tell yourself the T6 version of your T5 ship is a whole new model - after all, you don't get a free upgraded car just because you bought the former model. Do you get what I am saying?
It's only a 'technical' issue in that they simply (lazily?) copied the Specialization tree mechanics, designed to be an 'over-the-course-of-time' deal, in which you purchase points on an individual basis, and which choices become effective immediately, and are now stuck with that, instead of using the logical, and conceptually superior, single 'Commit' button that belonged to the old skill system.
N.B. I can understand how reworking the whole behind-the-scenes 'Specialization tree mechanics,' just for the skills, could be considered cumbersome. But I'd like to point out that such a time-consuming thingy isn't necessary, either. Were I to program this, all I'd do is make a simple, superimposed, 'faux' GUI for it, which does nothing but simply collect the assigned points, and then batch-supply those choices to the underlying 'Specialization tree' interface upon 'Commit.' Maybe not extremely elegant, but extremely easy to make.
Why do you think that this wasn't considered? Why do you think that such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly? Why do you think whatever abritrary time you decide this should take is actually currently available in the schedule of the parties that would be involved?
It's extremely easy to spitball ideas and prototypes can often be develivered fast. But something that is actually integrated in an existing application and tested for all kinds of scenarios - that's the hard part.
I always love your generic detractions.
But No & LOL, "such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly." It would basically just be a glorified form-processor, that just collects your choices for batch-processing (with an already existing GUI, showing you your choices), plus some minor logic for showing the effects of said choices to the unlock bars. That's all.
It's actually the 'existing application' that got them in trouble to begin with, as the Specialization tree mechanics don't really lend themselves very well for committig skill points in the first place. But, being as that is what they went with, the question now is, How to change things in such a way that individual purchases become a single 'Commit'? (Without having to rewrite the entire underlying skill revamp mechanics). Like I said, I certainly would use the method I outlined, if I were faced with it.
The ONLY reason for this change is not to "make things less complicated", its EXPECTED to grief players into making a mess of it, to buy respecs.
I think that is quite a cynical point of view.
That cynicism is born from having had to pay 4-5 times for the same ships, and all the respecs I have already wasted on them till now.
I agree to a certain point; but selling ships is how Cryptic makes money, which pays for the servers, which pays for the game.
Cryptic has to make money somehow to keep the servers running and to pay staff wages; they can do this either by charging for non-essential items (such as charging you again for the next tier of ship) or by charging for content and access to area's.
How would you personally like them to fund the game? If it makes you feel any better you could always tell yourself the T6 version of your T5 ship is a whole new model - after all, you don't get a free upgraded car just because you bought the former model. Do you get what I am saying?
i have nothing against cryptic making money and I can understand for things like ships, outfits, bank slots and such that they are completely optional and therefor reasonable for there to be charge for their use.
I can also understand that cryptic don't want players respecing half a dozen times a day or even just because they are using a different ship or fighting a different opponent.
on the other hand cryptic have stated in the live stream that they would like to see players experiment with their builds and at the end of the day this is not going to happen with most players if they have to spend 500zen every time.
it would have been a good move to have allowed 1 free respec to each player say once a month to use or loose so players will have the chance to play around with their builds and try different things from time to time if they want to experiment and if they make a mistake or want to change again they can either buy a respec or wait a month till the next free one comes up.
everyone benefits that way cryptic gets players to experiment with their builds as they have said they would like to see and players get a chance to try different things from time to time without fear of being permanently stuck with a minor error or having to cough up cash to put it right.
as it stands most players will see a good build being posted by another player, copy that and never touch the skill system again.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Does anyone know if our banked RESPECS are gonna carry over? Heck, last time we had an issue with 'invalid skills' and when they fixed it it ate all the ones I had banked.
Bort said your banked skill respecs will carry over.
I am complete in agreement with you - of course they need to keep money flowing in.
Creating NEW content expansions is the solution like Legacy of Romulus.
Not re-implementing the same thing over and over again, or changing how something which has already been purchased works.
Ever noticed though, that each "expansion" gives you less and less?
1) Legacy Of Romulus : a whole new faction/species, a huge storyline for them, a homeworld filled with missions, lots of surrounding patrols etc
2) Solanae: a huge playable sphere, with lots of areas, storylines, missions, ships, Undine battlezone etc
3) Delta Rising: a whole freeking quadrant, a huge Kobali homeworld to run around on with a huge amount of content and story, dozens of patrols, new Rep trees, etc
then
4) Iconian: a rep tree, a Krenim base
5) new Dawn: a rep tree, a battlezone that was a carbon copy of the Undine one (almost), admiralty
6) 11.5: skills revamp, more admiralty
I realise those huge expansions take a lot of wo/man-time and money and investment to create, but seems that in the last year there has been a trickle of content rather than huge lumps of it that take six months to play through properly. Point is, trickle trickle won't help retention, or bring in new players. Cryptic seriously need something "big".. Gamma quadrant map, huge new worlds to run around on, new playable species/races. That is the thing that will bring in the new players, and make the old players return, not "Grind Weekend 3" every two weeks and the occasional free ship giveaway.
Neverwinter has these huge updates, why doesn't STO? (probable answer: they shifted their staff from STO to Neverwinter)
apologies if that went off-topic, but it kind of bothers me to see this game lose out like that
LUKARI GUERILLA GARDENING MILITIA - Glowing fingers are Growing fingers!
I am complete in agreement with you - of course they need to keep money flowing in.
Creating NEW content expansions is the solution like Legacy of Romulus.
Not re-implementing the same thing over and over again, or changing how something which has already been purchased works.
Ever noticed though, that each "expansion" gives you less and less?
1) Legacy Of Romulus : a whole new faction/species, a huge storyline for them, a homeworld filled with missions, lots of surrounding patrols etc
2) Solanae: a huge playable sphere, with lots of areas, storylines, missions, ships, Undine battlezone etc
3) Delta Rising: a whole freeking quadrant, a huge Kobali homeworld to run around on with a huge amount of content and story, dozens of patrols, new Rep trees, etc
then
4) Iconian: a rep tree, a Krenim base
5) new Dawn: a rep tree, a battlezone that was a carbon copy of the Undine one (almost), admiralty
6) 11.5: skills revamp, more admiralty
I realise those huge expansions take a lot of wo/man-time and money and investment to create, but seems that in the last year there has been a trickle of content rather than huge lumps of it that take six months to play through properly. Point is, trickle trickle won't help retention, or bring in new players. Cryptic seriously need something "big".. Gamma quadrant map, huge new worlds to run around on, new playable species/races. That is the thing that will bring in the new players, and make the old players return, not "Grind Weekend 3" every two weeks and the occasional free ship giveaway.
Neverwinter has these huge updates, why doesn't STO? (probable answer: they shifted their staff from STO to Neverwinter)
apologies if that went off-topic, but it kind of bothers me to see this game lose out like that
to be fair 11.5 is not an expansion it is a season update and not even a whole season at that just a half season.
there have only ever been 2 expansions to date, Legacy of Romulus & Delta Rising.
all the other releases were either seasons that are much smaller then expansions or half seasons that are smaller still.
also Neverwinter may have a much larger player base and much more money being spent by its players then sto hence more money to pay staff and bigger updates as a result.
all things considered sto's updates are fine by me, I don't feel like I am falling too far behind with things as much as I would if all the updates were as big as LOR was.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
You lost a lot of people at that point
Yep. Not happening. I refuse to pay just to reclaim functionality I already had.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
But as a counter-counter-example, you have games like Diablo 3!!! where you get UNLIMITED FREE respecs whenever you want. So progressive games are getting better and better at handling this situation.
STO is going backwards. Not just backwards from the gaming world, but backwards inside its own game.
That's DEFINITELY what you want to showcase when getting new players......
Putting in a new system JUST to sell respec tokens? Did some smart guy in a meeting see that respec tokens weren't selling too well and decided the best thing to do was a massive change to the whole system, hoping to sell more through trial and error?
I seriously hope this backfires massively.
A few guys build a cookie cutter build for eng/sci/tac. Every single player then picks their one, and no one ever buys respec tokens. Also no one buys ships anymore since it costs $10 just to try it out. (Not including ship price).
That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot
It's either that or increase the cap on skill points to the point where all the skill trees can be filled...eventually; almost like how they do it with specialization points.
One of these two things need to happen before the news skill system is released. otherwise PWE will only be shooting themselves in the foot, if they're lucky.
Sorry to admit it but when I read that one I asked myself the very same thing.
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It's less of a matter of it being too difficult with the game engine and more about them needing the time to get it done. Everything that they do in this game requires programming time to do. The new skill revamp had an implementation time of four months prior to it coming onto tribble. They have a time table that they have to get season 11.5 out and to go back and add in the programming to allow us to set up our skills like we could before would delay the launch of 11.5 which they don't want to do. They need to have it out for the public in time for people to be able to fully experience it for a few months before ST Las Vegas.
I stated the reason for the confirm button not being around above. As for filling up all the points, that will never happen. If the previous skill system never allowed us to fill everything up, the revamp system won't allow it either.
Yes, punch cards! But you have to punch them individually! :P
As someone who works in a firm that everything is a formal project and has a degree in project management (and certs to back it up), I am appalled that Cryptic decided to throw Scope (quality in this case) to the waste basket, in favor of schedule.
I know that pressure to meet the target "milestones" is great, even so more is the pressure put on by the voice of the customer, after the release of a product that the "simple things" don't work. The ability to commit at the end of the build is such a "simple thing" that will upset players, when they need to buy reset tokens because of an errant click.
That's how you made punch cards...individually.
You handed your completed stack of cards to the computer operator...and went home. The next day you came in and were handed back the stack and told if your program ran or not. That was IT for debugging user-friendliness. Then you got to go through your stack ONE CARD AT A TIME to find where your error was, and repeat the process. One day or more PER ERROR.
And may all the gods help you if you dropped your stack of cards on the ground, because there went your afternoon just trying to get them back in order.
When I was in college and used to complain about "syntax error in line 3596" being unhelpful, my mother (who was a programmer in the punch card days) just laughed and laughed.
ON Topic: I agree that making Respec Tokens free would completely alleviate the problem, even if only until they can take the time to get PowerCart functionality back.
Alternatively, increase the Skill points you eventually can get to the point where you CAN fill every tree (as with the Specialization System). True, the only difference between endgame captains would then be in their Traits (which can be rearranged as you like), but at least nobody could "mis-spec" skills by errors of commission or omission.
But unless one of those solutions is implemented, I fear there may be a lot of angry people, new AND old.
Arent we able to do that currently with the Live Skill Tree on Holodeck? If so, then thats a bunch of BS.
The new Skill Tree is based on the new programming that They set up for the Specialization Trees, not the old programming for the current Skill Chart.
That's why it's now going to be "Pick & Click" for each point.
They MIGHT try to figure out a way at a much later date, to incorporate the "Choose All & Click" method, but I wouldn't count on it.
C'est la vie
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
The new skill system has many improvements over the old. It is qualitiatively better, at least by their estimation (and I tend to agree). The skills are more clearly defined, are more consistent in effects, they are better explained. The whole process of selecting skills is easier, as you don't need to shuffle skill points around with variable skill point cost while balancing it with minimum skill point expenditure per tier and trying to not end up with points left unpsent . You are no longer forced to sacrifice space ability for ground or vice versa.
That's a lot of "quality" that they decided to release earlier, rathern than forcing people to stick with an obvious lower quality system. Just because it could even be better is not autoamtically a reason to delay a feature further.
It's only a 'technical' issue in that they simply (lazily?) copied the Specialization tree mechanics, designed to be an 'over-the-course-of-time' deal, in which you purchase points on an individual basis, and which choices become effective immediately, and are now stuck with that, instead of using the logical, and conceptually superior, single 'Commit' button that belonged to the old skill system.
The Devs' rationale, no offense, to keep the 'Specialization tree mechanics' has been rather contrived (needing to stand at the skill trainer for too long!? Wut?!). And yet, standing at the skill trainer, shifting stuff around a bit, until you're satisfied with it all, is *exactly* what needs to happen.
How the [add liberal adjective] do they expect us to figure out effects based on previous or future selections, or how possible selections could impact other abilities.
The previous system allowed precisely for that, before committed the build.
Now its a complete shot in the dark. The ONLY reason for this change is not to "make things less complicated", its EXPECTED to grief players into making a mess of it, to buy respecs.
Nothing like selling something players already paid for. Modus Operandi with this company.
https://www.twitch.tv/perfectworld_community/v/53822507
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I think that is quite a cynical point of view. I personally don't like the changes and don't see any need for them, but a skill revamp has been one of the most requested updates on the forums for quite a long time. I doubt very much that Cryptic is doing it to 'grief' its own players/customers.
I know Cryptic likes to make money (who doesn't?), but I also feel they do strike the right balance when it comes to monetization vs F2P; infact they give away far more for free than any other F2P game that I know of, and do not charge for any Episodic content or access to any area's of the game either (also quite rare in the world of F2P, hell even WoW charges people for access to new content/area's and that has a subscription based model)
So I think you may be being a little unfair in your assessment.
N.B. I can understand how reworking the whole behind-the-scenes 'Specialization tree mechanics,' just for the skills, could be considered cumbersome. But I'd like to point out that such a time-consuming thingy isn't necessary, either. Were I to program this, all I'd do is make a simple, superimposed, 'faux' GUI for it, which does nothing but simply collect the assigned points, and then batch-supply those choices to the underlying 'Specialization tree' interface upon 'Commit.' Maybe not extremely elegant, but extremely easy to make.
That cynicism is born from having had to pay 4-5 times for the same ships, and all the respecs I have already wasted on them till now. Had I been forewarned they would complete change such a fundamental aspect of the game, I would never have purchased respecs to start with.
Cryptic moved the goal post because the system they designed did not measure up to the balancing of their own additions.
I purchased respecs throughout 6 years of content to get my toons to a state I was happy within that system.
I would expect, that when something is not working correctly, a client is refunded.
So I would expect my respecs to be returned.
Anything other than that is called cynicism.
It's extremely easy to spitball ideas and prototypes can often be develivered fast. But something that is actually integrated in an existing application and tested for all kinds of scenarios - that's the hard part.
I agree to a certain point; but selling ships is how Cryptic makes money, which pays for the servers, which pays for the game.
Cryptic has to make money somehow to keep the servers running and to pay staff wages; they can do this either by charging for non-essential items (such as charging you again for the next tier of ship) or by charging for content and access to area's.
How would you personally like them to fund the game? If it makes you feel any better you could always tell yourself the T6 version of your T5 ship is a whole new model - after all, you don't get a free upgraded car just because you bought the former model. Do you get what I am saying?
I am complete in agreement with you - of course they need to keep money flowing in.
Creating NEW content expansions is the solution like Legacy of Romulus.
Not re-implementing the same thing over and over again, or changing how something which has already been purchased works.
I always love your generic detractions.
But No & LOL, "such a solution would not take weeks of development time to get it done correctly." It would basically just be a glorified form-processor, that just collects your choices for batch-processing (with an already existing GUI, showing you your choices), plus some minor logic for showing the effects of said choices to the unlock bars. That's all.
It's actually the 'existing application' that got them in trouble to begin with, as the Specialization tree mechanics don't really lend themselves very well for committig skill points in the first place. But, being as that is what they went with, the question now is, How to change things in such a way that individual purchases become a single 'Commit'? (Without having to rewrite the entire underlying skill revamp mechanics). Like I said, I certainly would use the method I outlined, if I were faced with it.
i have nothing against cryptic making money and I can understand for things like ships, outfits, bank slots and such that they are completely optional and therefor reasonable for there to be charge for their use.
I can also understand that cryptic don't want players respecing half a dozen times a day or even just because they are using a different ship or fighting a different opponent.
on the other hand cryptic have stated in the live stream that they would like to see players experiment with their builds and at the end of the day this is not going to happen with most players if they have to spend 500zen every time.
it would have been a good move to have allowed 1 free respec to each player say once a month to use or loose so players will have the chance to play around with their builds and try different things from time to time if they want to experiment and if they make a mistake or want to change again they can either buy a respec or wait a month till the next free one comes up.
everyone benefits that way cryptic gets players to experiment with their builds as they have said they would like to see and players get a chance to try different things from time to time without fear of being permanently stuck with a minor error or having to cough up cash to put it right.
as it stands most players will see a good build being posted by another player, copy that and never touch the skill system again.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Bort said your banked skill respecs will carry over.
Ever noticed though, that each "expansion" gives you less and less?
1) Legacy Of Romulus : a whole new faction/species, a huge storyline for them, a homeworld filled with missions, lots of surrounding patrols etc
2) Solanae: a huge playable sphere, with lots of areas, storylines, missions, ships, Undine battlezone etc
3) Delta Rising: a whole freeking quadrant, a huge Kobali homeworld to run around on with a huge amount of content and story, dozens of patrols, new Rep trees, etc
then
4) Iconian: a rep tree, a Krenim base
5) new Dawn: a rep tree, a battlezone that was a carbon copy of the Undine one (almost), admiralty
6) 11.5: skills revamp, more admiralty
I realise those huge expansions take a lot of wo/man-time and money and investment to create, but seems that in the last year there has been a trickle of content rather than huge lumps of it that take six months to play through properly. Point is, trickle trickle won't help retention, or bring in new players. Cryptic seriously need something "big".. Gamma quadrant map, huge new worlds to run around on, new playable species/races. That is the thing that will bring in the new players, and make the old players return, not "Grind Weekend 3" every two weeks and the occasional free ship giveaway.
Neverwinter has these huge updates, why doesn't STO? (probable answer: they shifted their staff from STO to Neverwinter)
apologies if that went off-topic, but it kind of bothers me to see this game lose out like that
to be fair 11.5 is not an expansion it is a season update and not even a whole season at that just a half season.
there have only ever been 2 expansions to date, Legacy of Romulus & Delta Rising.
all the other releases were either seasons that are much smaller then expansions or half seasons that are smaller still.
go to web page - http://sto.gamepedia.com/Star_Trek_Online - for a full list of seasons and expansions.
also Neverwinter may have a much larger player base and much more money being spent by its players then sto hence more money to pay staff and bigger updates as a result.
all things considered sto's updates are fine by me, I don't feel like I am falling too far behind with things as much as I would if all the updates were as big as LOR was.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.