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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

What did we learn from the Skill Revamp Livestream?

sirmaydaysirmayday Member Posts: 535 Arc User
in Star Trek Online General Discussion
Could be I'm just missing it, but where's the discussion (if any) from the Skill Revamp Livestream? I missed the stream itself, so I was looking forward to the debriefing afterward, but so far haven't seen anything.
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Comments

  • giliongilion Member Posts: 686 Arc User
    Trendy said she's gonna transcribe most of it, Im assuming that'll be released tomorrow. As for what we learned, not new from what has already been released. Only new bit of info was that some of the skills are going to be changed from what they currently are on Tribble.
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  • sirmaydaysirmayday Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    gilion wrote: »
    Trendy said she's gonna transcribe most of it, Im assuming that'll be released tomorrow. As for what we learned, not new from what has already been released. Only new bit of info was that some of the skills are going to be changed from what they currently are on Tribble.

    Ah, thanks.
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    It's still a work in progress...

    We're going to get A Free RESET of our Skills and ONE Free RESPECT Token (Per Character) when this hits the Holodeck. (that's it)

    The TRIBBLE freebie respect tokens, will be available for an undetermined amount of time after this goes live, for testing your choice of Skill Set on Tribble, but will probably go away eventually.

    The Respect Tokens in the Zen Store will be on-sale for awhile at launch. (how long wasn't said, nor the price)

    They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
    (it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so and would mess up Their release schedule)
    So it's One Click At A Time, Dear Friends...

    Trendy has beautiful Long Red Hair.

    Borticus said that Kurland is officially retired and won't be coming back.
    (unless somebody wants to start a kick-starter to fund the $3000.00 he would have to pay to join the Actors Union per year)
    <HE WAS KIDDING ABOUT THE KICKSTARTER!>
    They also kidded about possibly killing Kurland off.

    A lot of technical jargon was tossed around about the actual programming of this new system, and they went through a basic teaching session of how it looks, and demo'd how to pick skills.
    They also spent a bit of time describing what the bars below the main tree were and how to use them.

    B)
    Post edited by daveyny on
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  • sirmaydaysirmayday Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    daveyny wrote: »
    *summary of Livestream*

    Also appreciated, thank you.
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    Oh, I forgot...

    They spent the first 35 minutes, trying to figure out how to get rid of the wicked-a*s*s-echo that was plaguing the livestream.
    :#
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  • dd1mdd1m Member Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    daveyny wrote: »
    It's still a work in progress...

    We're going to get A Free RESET of our Skills and ONE Free RESPECT Token when this hits the Holodeck. (that's it)

    The TRIBBLE freebie respect tokens, will be available for an undetermined amount of time after this goes live for testing your choice of Skill Set on Tribble, but will probably go away eventually.

    The Respect Tokens in the Zen Store will be on-sale for awhile at launch. (how long wasn't said, nor the price)


    B)

    Pretty much what I was expecting, shame its going to be a one stop shop then relegated to the realms of "what system was that then?"

    How to encourage experimentation then completely discourage it one one easy step
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    daveyny wrote: »

    They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
    (it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
    So it's One Click At A Time, Dear Friends...

    This was the biggest part of it for me because it illustrates what I believe to be the worst part of the new skill system. I like the system overall, I have been able to re-create my builds and not see any real loss.

    The issue however, is that unlike the current system, you can't set everything up and then confirm purchase or cancel. This is going to be a BIG problem, if you click on one single ability that you don't want, you can't undo it without using a respec. Someone with no free respecs left who accidentally clicks on the wrong skill.. BAM.. that's $5 to fix it. There is no going back, no cancel, you can't just close the window.. you're just out of luck.

    I like the system overall, I do.. i think Bort and his staff did a good job, but this part of the system is a real problem in my opinion. You can't play with it like you can now, you can't move things around and then accept the build when you're happy with it. The biggest problem with the upcoming system is you have to know EXACTLY how you want to spend every single point before you start. You can't figure it out in game and then accept it when you get something you like. You have to map it out on Tribble or on a 3rd party site first.

    I can see this being a big problem. I don't like that one misclick costs me 500 Zen to fix.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
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         Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    daveyny wrote: »
    They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
    (it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
    So it's One Click At A Time, Dear Friends...

    which is utterly ridiculous, because champions, which uses an older version of STO's engine has exactly this feature with its specializations (you can put a point into any spec choice you want and take it back out again to put it in another until you're satisfied with your choice, at which point you click the confirm button to lock it in) - you'd think the code for that would still exist somewhere in STO's engine and they could just use that​​
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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    daveyny wrote: »
    ...
    The TRIBBLE freebie respect tokens, will be available for an undetermined amount of time after this goes live for testing your choice of Skill Set on Tribble, but will probably go away eventually.
    ...

    They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them...

    These two alone make the system much more difficult than the existing system, which is completely opposite of how this is being sold.

    To be very honest, they said that it would take time to program and delay the launch of the system, thereby messing up the schedule that they've set out. The goal they want is to have this in place for the live server so that people can experience it for a few months before the Las Vegas convention this year, since they plan on introducing the game to convention goers that never played STO.

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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    edited March 2016
    Given their sales pitch for 'experimenting with builds' and such Id hoped for something like DCUO's armory system where we could save builds and quick hop to them out of combat. The lack of this + this BS 'don't scr.ew up or it'll cost ya' makes me really wonder why the hell they bothered or though this was some super huge thing that had to get done. I can see this idea, as stated, turning AWAY more people that have never played STO than it'll draw in.

    also... really s c r e w is censored?!?!?! come on you sad p.c. police that verb has plenty of legit uses
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    tacofangs wrote: »
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  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    vegeta50024 wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    daveyny wrote: »
    ...
    The TRIBBLE freebie respect tokens, will be available for an undetermined amount of time after this goes live for testing your choice of Skill Set on Tribble, but will probably go away eventually.
    ...

    They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them...

    These two alone make the system much more difficult than the existing system, which is completely opposite of how this is being sold.

    To be very honest, they said that it would take time to program and delay the launch of the system, thereby messing up the schedule that they've set out. The goal they want is to have this in place for the live server so that people can experience it for a few months before the Las Vegas convention this year, since they plan on introducing the game to convention goers that never played STO.

    Which I hope doesn't end up biting Them in the rear.
    If this ends up being a Hot Topic in the forums, it could also end up being a Hot Topic at the convention which could discourage, more than encourage new players.

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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    To be fair, the system really is pretty good overall and it is much more simple and straightforward then the current system. I like the majority of the system, the only part I don't like is the part where you get one shot to do it right.

    I wouldn't even mind that much if respects weren't so badly overpriced. 500 Zen is a pretty hefty fine for a misclick.
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  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    For someone brand new, like say someone seeing it for the first time at the 50th anniversary convention, it's probably going to not be much of an issue. So in that respect the new trees and organization is doing its job.
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  • captxpendablecaptxpendable Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    snoggymack22 wrote: »
    For someone brand new, like say someone seeing it for the first time at the 50th anniversary convention, it's probably going to not be much of an issue. So in that respect the new trees and organization is doing its job.

    True, in this case Form will matter much more than Function.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    snoggymack22 wrote: »
    For someone brand new, like say someone seeing it for the first time at the 50th anniversary convention, it's probably going to not be much of an issue. So in that respect the new trees and organization is doing its job.

    Until the first time they misclick a skill and find out its $5 to fix it. See if they stick around then.
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  • swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    which is utterly ridiculous, because champions, which uses an older version of STO's engine has exactly this feature with its specializations (you can put a point into any spec choice you want and take it back out again to put it in another until you're satisfied with your choice, at which point you click the confirm button to lock it in) - you'd think the code for that would still exist somewhere in STO's engine and they could just use that​​

    IIRC, this is the second skill revision in STO. I suspect that code's long gone.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    sirmayday wrote: »
    What did we learn from the Skill Revamp Livestream?

    That they can't start on time.

  • swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 1,506 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    kodachikuno wrote: »
    Given their sales pitch for 'experimenting with builds' and such Id hoped for something like DCUO's armory system where we could save builds and quick hop to them out of combat.

    Loadouts is kinda like the Armory system. The big difference though, is that in DCUO, you can reset your skill points with in game cash rather than having to spend real money.
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    snoggymack22 wrote: »
    For someone brand new, like say someone seeing it for the first time at the 50th anniversary convention, it's probably going to not be much of an issue. So in that respect the new trees and organization is doing its job.

    Until the first time they misclick a skill and find out its $5 to fix it. See if they stick around then.

    Couldn't they just take their time looking at all the options before clicking?

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  • kodachikunokodachikuno Member Posts: 6,020 Arc User1
    vegeta50024 wrote: »
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    snoggymack22 wrote: »
    For someone brand new, like say someone seeing it for the first time at the 50th anniversary convention, it's probably going to not be much of an issue. So in that respect the new trees and organization is doing its job.

    Until the first time they misclick a skill and find out its $5 to fix it. See if they stick around then.

    Couldn't they just take their time looking at all the options before clicking?

    mistakes happen, they always do. $5 to undo a mistake is a bit much.
    swamarian wrote: »
    kodachikuno wrote: »
    Given their sales pitch for 'experimenting with builds' and such Id hoped for something like DCUO's armory system where we could save builds and quick hop to them out of combat.

    Loadouts is kinda like the Armory system. The big difference though, is that in DCUO, you can reset your skill points with in game cash rather than having to spend real money.

    Aye loadouts are similar, and I was hoping it would extend to this new skill system. You're also correct that respecs for in game cheap are one of the few areas DCUO is quite user friendly
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    tacofangs wrote: »
    STO isn't canon, and neither are any of the books.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    daveyny wrote: »
    ...
    The TRIBBLE freebie respect tokens, will be available for an undetermined amount of time after this goes live for testing your choice of Skill Set on Tribble, but will probably go away eventually.
    ...

    They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them...

    These two alone make the system much more difficult than the existing system, which is completely opposite of how this is being sold.
    For new players, the difference is practically irrelevant, since they will gain and spend points one by one. Only once you start respecing does it become annoying.
    And the system will still have more descriptive skills, and skills that will be better documented, too.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    daveyny wrote: »
    They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them.
    (it's technically too difficult with this game engine and would require an inordinate amount of time and effort to do so)
    So it's One Click At A Time, Dear Friends...

    which is utterly ridiculous, because champions, which uses an older version of STO's engine has exactly this feature with its specializations (you can put a point into any spec choice you want and take it back out again to put it in another until you're satisfied with your choice, at which point you click the confirm button to lock it in) - you'd think the code for that would still exist somewhere in STO's engine and they could just use that​​
    I think it would be more reasonable to assume that the developers actually know what they are talking about and can better estimate how complex implementing a feature will be, than someone that just sees the outside of the system.


    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    daveyny wrote: »

    Trendy has beautiful Long Red Hair.

    Thanks for sum up of the livestream.
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  • nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    I think it would be more reasonable to assume that the developers actually know what they are talking about and can better estimate how complex implementing a feature will be, than someone that just sees the outside of the system.

    Honestly, it doesn't matter how hard it is, a "Confirm" button HAS TO BE DONE. There is no point in creating a new player friendlier experience and then suspending it in a UI that would have been considered barbaric back when STO launched. Its three steps forward and then back to before the starting line.

  • hanover2hanover2 Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    vegeta50024 wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    daveyny wrote: »
    ...
    The TRIBBLE freebie respect tokens, will be available for an undetermined amount of time after this goes live for testing your choice of Skill Set on Tribble, but will probably go away eventually.
    ...

    They ARE NOT going to make it so that we can set up our skills and then confirm them...

    These two alone make the system much more difficult than the existing system, which is completely opposite of how this is being sold.

    To be very honest, they said that it would take time to program and delay the launch of the system, thereby messing up the schedule that they've set out. The goal they want is to have this in place for the live server so that people can experience it for a few months before the Las Vegas convention this year, since they plan on introducing the game to convention goers that never played STO.

    I refuse to believe this didn't occur to anyone on the development team prior to players raising the objection. This is a deliberate, cynical QOL downgrade to boost sales of respec token.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    valoreah wrote: »
    mustrumridcully0 wrote: »
    For new players, the difference is practically irrelevant, since they will gain and spend points one by one. Only once you start respecing does it become annoying.
    And the system will still have more descriptive skills, and skills that will be better documented, too.

    The existing system could not have just had better descriptions added and better documentation?
    I don't think my list is in any way exhaustive or represenative of the sum of all the changes.

    For example, Borticus also eliminated or rolled together a lot of skills that were underutilized. (The lifestream mentions some skills that only 5 % or so had skilled at all).
    Then there is the whole change with skills having different skill cost based on tier, moving to a system where you gain ponits as you level and each abiltity costs exactly one point.
    Then there is the whole thing that many skills did not all affect abilities the same way, so some skills would need to be listed as "buffs Power X by 1 % per point, buffs Power Y by 0.5 % per point, buffs Power Z by 0.25 % per point, but only on mondays that follow on a birthday of a TOS actor, and X,Y,Z only representatitives of a much larger number of powers).


    In the end... the decision is made. The developers know why they came to the decision, the decision is not going to change for release, but it could change in the future, if the feedback keeps saying it's needed.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited March 2016
    This skill revamp is looking to be the biggest "meh" in the history of STO.
    kodachikuno wrote: »
    vegeta50024 wrote: »
    seaofsorrows wrote: »
    snoggymack22 wrote: »
    For someone brand new, like say someone seeing it for the first time at the 50th anniversary convention, it's probably going to not be much of an issue. So in that respect the new trees and organization is doing its job.

    Until the first time they misclick a skill and find out its $5 to fix it. See if they stick around then.

    Couldn't they just take their time looking at all the options before clicking?

    mistakes happen, they always do. $5 to undo a mistake is a bit much.
    Meh.

    Game's easy.

    I'd never pay one cent to fix whatever skill points I have in the current system (don't remember how they're set, don't care enough to check) and ain't gonna pay one cent in the new system either. Mistakes...couldn't care less.

    All the paid respecs mean is I put something on while leveling and forgot the system exists as soon as I hit 50. And without free respecs, all the revamp will mean I'll remember that skill tab again for 5 minutes...if the game reminds me I'm supposed to re-fill it.
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