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Tribble: Plasmonic Leech Stealth Nerf?

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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    Even after todays patch, it is the same. I'm ok with it. My leech on tribble is still pulling 1.9 per activation with the 2 nodes in drain expertise and 2 embassy consoles. As for all the people that thought running super drain builds with nothing but universal consoles (gimmick builds), I am sorry but they will be much less effective. TBH, has no place in PVE. Maybe its a PVP thing, IDK. But it sure is funny, and their parsers always give me a good chuckle.

    Speaking of the Third Node (the Electrical thingy), is it worth it? Previous, similar Electrical effects proved to be quite useless.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited February 2016
    I say keep it coming. Nerf the high end, boost the low end. Make triple-digit DPS impossible to get, make 10k easier to achieve. The more the "wizards" cry, the better.

    What some of you don't seem to understand is that when some people can exploit obscure mechanics to get ten times more effectiveness than an average player with good gear who doesn't know these secret or rare combinations, IT BREAKS THE GODSDAMNED GAME. It becomes impossible to balance difficulty levels because no matter how crazy buffed you make the NPCs it can barely effect the 100k+ players, enabling them to get all the rewards in game and pile up the wealth with minimum effort, and long before you reach a level they even notice the average player is utterly walled out of completing content. Those average players look at the incredible expense and difficulty of attaining that level of effectiveness and quit because it's way too much effort, or at best just sigh and deal with annoying levels of difficulty with what they are able to obtain. Either way you have a split in the playerbase between a small but vocal overachievers who are bored and the rest who are frustrated. It's a recipe for disaster.

    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically, and rather than power the devs need to be selling more flash and brag. Normal difficulty shouldn't pay less than harder, hell if anything the weaker players need more help. You shouldn't get more for breaking the game. Completion and participation need to be rewarded with usable points while higher accomplishment gives status points aka stuff to brag over like trophies and titles and accolades as bonus. Earning potential in the game needs to be equalized. Power levels need to be normalized. Playing the game needs to be fun, not a job and it shouldn't need a spreadsheet and hours of homework.

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    Wow, rant much? Heck, if anything, the new skill mapping pretty much killed the usefulness of most lobi consoles science wise. You get better results from rep sets now. My apex set pieces are going into cold storage.
  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    The communciation breakdown here is that apparently the concept of a "Test Server" and "In Testing" has not been communicated successfully?

    This isn't expected to be a polished and convenient experience. Inconveniences are unfortunate, but part of the risk of testing stuff.

    I'm fairly certain I outlined the areas in which there were breakdowns in communication. I doubt you need the clarification, but:
    collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/communication-breakdown
    "A failure to exchange information"
    I mean, it's almost like the full extent of those changes were actually posted somewhere prior to testing /sarcasm. Sure, in testing it might not be polished, or pretty, or whatever, but at current, it's not even there at all and like I said, those specific details are needed in testing. So, yeah, communication breakdown, by definition.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    Darth, I agree with you completely on a personal level. However, I think Cryptic needs to tread carefully here. DR began a different STO that is based on selling power to a smaller number of players for much more money per. If they take away the power in any meaningful way I could see it killing the game. Unless, I suppose, there was some way to get the DR exodus back during this anniversary year. Seems a tall order.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically...

    (...)

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • lumpkin1lumpkin1 Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    If we're "normalizing" stuff, could we normalize weapon power the same way that aux power is being normalized? it seems like the tactical side of things is out of control. I don't understand the constant calls for reducing the effectiveness of sci powers, but not touching bfaw.
  • drmilkydrmilky Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    no starship console should have the power that leech has, it should be heavily nerfed, lets try to go away were a single item represents so much compared to all other starship parts.

    i hope if gets nerfed to the ground.
  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    drmilky wrote: »
    no starship console should have the power that leech has, it should be heavily nerfed, lets try to go away were a single item represents so much compared to all other starship parts.

    i hope if gets nerfed to the ground.

    But that's all in its use and the design of what's around it. I mean, you could get better overall effects from a drake build but that takes time and effort. The issue with the leech being so popular is largely due to how easy it is to use and/or obtain. It's the easy route to more power in your subsytems without having to learn about all those 'performace' skills or making the choices between which EPtX to use and whether the doff/traits are worth it to get more power in every subsystem per activation. I suspect there are more than a few builds out there that would get more benefit from a higher skill boost than they would from the leech, but the leech is simply easier.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • sarcasmdetectorsarcasmdetector Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically...

    (...)

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.

    So much truth here that the anti-DPSers just don't seem to get.

    Also, any nerf to the high end WILL decimate the low end while at the same time be considered an annoyance by the high end.

    That's something else the anti-DPSers don't seem to get.
  • qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited February 2016
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    To say that there's been a communication breakdown is, in my opinion, an overstatement edging on falsehood. If you're not getting the information that you want or need regarding these changes, then I'm fairly certain you haven't made those needs clear.

    An overstatement edging on falsehood?! I wager real Zen on stating not a single player, however wide you search the place, could deduce, even remotely, from those 2 statements, that the Leech' effectiveness was going to be cut in half.

    I always appreciate Dev feedback; but a communication breakdown is, I think, exactly what happened. Sorry, but this came as a total shock to me.

    i think that is a very fare statement, and even with the best will in the world; relative to the current Leech situation, those 2 statements are little better than 'there will be changes' and 'things may be different'. :neutral:​​
    Post edited by qziqza on
    tYld1gu.gif?1
    TOS style icons used with the kind permission of irvinis.deviantart.com ©2013-2015
  • hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically...

    (...)

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.

    Yes sitting there smashing the spacebar is such a pilot trait only a few can master
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    hajmyis wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically...

    (...)

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.

    Yes sitting there smashing the spacebar is such a pilot trait only a few can master

    Smashing the spacebar is definitely NOT key to high DPS. If it was, we'd see almost everyone doing 100k+.
  • sarcasmdetectorsarcasmdetector Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
    drmilky wrote: »
    no starship console should have the power that leech has, it should be heavily nerfed, lets try to go away were a single item represents so much compared to all other starship parts.

    i hope if gets nerfed to the ground.

    There are a couple alternatives to the PlasLeech which by definition means that the console is not overpowered.

    It's a useful console, it's a good console, and it's an effective console, but it is not overpowered.

    The Alternatives are:
    MACO/AHG Shield, not quite as good as the PlasLeech, but a lot cheaper and works great for tanks.
    Supremacy, mostly equal to PlasLeech, but better in some builds, costs 2x or more than the PlasLeech.

  • sarcasmdetectorsarcasmdetector Member Posts: 1,176 Media Corps
    hajmyis wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically...

    (...)

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.

    Yes sitting there smashing the spacebar is such a pilot trait only a few can master

    Smashing the spacebar is definitely NOT key to high DPS. If it was, we'd see almost everyone doing 100k+.

    lol! and another thing the anti-DPSers don't get. smashing a spacebar will get you to 10k, no where near 100k though.
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    hajmyis wrote: »

    Yes sitting there smashing the spacebar is such a pilot trait only a few can master

    Look, while I don't like going for high DPS numbers, I think you should look at 100K DPS runs. The piloting you see on those videos is much more precise than just running around at max impulse speed smashing the spacebar.

    Anyway, this is way off topic.

  • hajmyishajmyis Member Posts: 405 Arc User
    hajmyis wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically...

    (...)

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.

    Yes sitting there smashing the spacebar is such a pilot trait only a few can master

    Smashing the spacebar is definitely NOT key to high DPS. If it was, we'd see almost everyone doing 100k+.

    Thats, odd because in all those 100k dps videos showing people sitting there is Scims etc never moving unless to the other side of the map.
    "Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    So much truth here that the anti-DPSers just don't seem to get.

    Also, any nerf to the high end WILL decimate the low end while at the same time be considered an annoyance by the high end.

    That's something else the anti-DPSers don't seem to get.

    I wouldn't say I'm anti-DPS, however I would say that if they're going to nerf abilities to curb DPS, they should curb direct-DPS abilities like FaW, APBeta, etc. (Whatever, make up your own list of go-to damage powers) as opposed to far wider reaching powers which aren't intrinsic to DPS. Leech is an excellent power boost, no doubt, but that helps Engs tank, Scis heal or do some exotic finger-wiggling. Does this mean it's the go to to nerf drains in order to drop DPS? That makes literally no sense.
    hajmyis wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.

    Yes sitting there smashing the spacebar is such a pilot trait only a few can master

    Though this is totally why I support you in what you're saying about how anti-DPSers don't seem to get it. You can't get away with spacebar mashing when you have to time your abilities to the level required by 100K+ DPSers. I'm not even going to pretend like I have the skill they have in both the analytical side of things, drilling down parses, etc, and also the reflexes on their ability timing. I might not like what they do, but I'll be damned if I don't appreciate and respect the skill.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    hajmyis wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically...

    (...)

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.

    Yes sitting there smashing the spacebar is such a pilot trait only a few can master


    That's your problem right there, thinking 'smashing the spacebar' will land a person 100k! It won't. It will get 'em around 30k, tops. Beyond that, timing becomes of the essence (and pretty much everything you do, from that point onwards, spacebarring-wise, will only severely hurt your DPS).

    My timing and coordination skills suck; so I'm not stellar at it. But that's how it works. If not, everyone would pull 100k.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • tunebreakertunebreaker Member Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    hajmyis wrote: »
    hajmyis wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Normalized is a great word for what needs to happen. The gap between the lowest and highest capability in game needs to be reduced dramatically...

    (...)

    The scales must be balanced.​​

    The difference between a 100k player, and one who barely musters 10k, is simply piloting. The former knows what buttons to push when, the latter does not. Simple as that. No amount of 'normalization' is ever going to change that.

    Yes sitting there smashing the spacebar is such a pilot trait only a few can master

    Smashing the spacebar is definitely NOT key to high DPS. If it was, we'd see almost everyone doing 100k+.

    Thats, odd because in all those 100k dps videos showing people sitting there is Scims etc never moving unless to the other side of the map.

    If that's the case, I would love to see a video of you doing 100k while mashing spacebar. And please, no lame excuses like "I'm beyond that kind of noobiness" or "I haven't got a video recording software."
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    hajmyis wrote: »

    Thats, odd because in all those 100k dps videos showing people sitting there is Scims etc never moving unless to the other side of the map.

    Lol, scimitars move too slow to notice the movement. You basically see ships moving back and forth from a spot in front of the transformers spewing damage.

  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    hajmyis wrote: »
    Thats, odd because in all those 100k dps videos showing people sitting there is Scims etc never moving unless to the other side of the map.

    So, wait, because they've managed to work out where the ideal spot to sit their ship and at what angle, you think they're not doing anything except mashing the spacebar?

    Pay attention to this:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=7iepSJT4tKQ
    Keep an eye on the weapons slots and keep in mind that they only flash white on spacebar. If you watch, this 100K DPS run didn't have the pilot (RyanSTO) hammering the spacebar constantly because if they did, they'd slap a global UI cooldown on most of their abilities. Instead, they hit the spacebar to attack a new target and let autofire take over while they manually activate necessary abilities in the correct order.

    Spacebar mashing, if I remember rightly, was born out of PvP, back in the day, when going from PvE to PvP was just painful if you didn't know how to set up pressure and heal cycles.
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Even after todays patch, it is the same. I'm ok with it. My leech on tribble is still pulling 1.9 per activation with the 2 nodes in drain expertise and 2 embassy consoles. As for all the people that thought running super drain builds with nothing but universal consoles (gimmick builds), I am sorry but they will be much less effective. TBH, has no place in PVE. Maybe its a PVP thing, IDK. But it sure is funny, and their parsers always give me a good chuckle.

    Speaking of the Third Node (the Electrical thingy), is it worth it? Previous, similar Electrical effects proved to be quite useless.
    Currently, I think not. The damage seems very small

    Here's an example of what it's supposed to do currently:
    Energy Siphon II
    • -23 All Power Settings for 23 sec
    • +23 All Power Settings for 23 sec
    • To Target: 266.5 Elecrtical Damage every 1 sec for 5 seco (max 1x per 5 sec)
    I don't even quite understand the tooltip there.
    So is it 265.5 damage every second for 5 seconds, or is it 265.5 damage once in 5 seconds?
    I suppose if it was 265.5 damage per second for 5 seconds, it would be getting closer to okay. Not stellar, but it's some extra damage you wouldn't have otherwise. Of course, one has to compare that to what you could do with another rank elsewhere.

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • daiphdaiph Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    I don't even quite understand the tooltip there.
    So is it 265.5 damage every second for 5 seconds, or is it 265.5 damage once in 5 seconds?
    I suppose if it was 265.5 damage per second for 5 seconds, it would be getting closer to okay. Not stellar, but it's some extra damage you wouldn't have otherwise. Of course, one has to compare that to what you could do with another rank elsewhere.

    I was talking about this elsewhere. It's 265 damage which can be activated up to once every 5 seconds. At best, under ideal circumstances, you can get close to 50DPS from it. I couldn't find anything which influenced it to any great degree either, be it drain/flow value, part/exotic gens, Aux power (might've gotten something from the Nukara rep Aux trait, but don't quote me...)
    What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
    qHiCsi6.gif
    Stop new content until quality returns
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Even after todays patch, it is the same. I'm ok with it. My leech on tribble is still pulling 1.9 per activation with the 2 nodes in drain expertise and 2 embassy consoles. As for all the people that thought running super drain builds with nothing but universal consoles (gimmick builds), I am sorry but they will be much less effective. TBH, has no place in PVE. Maybe its a PVP thing, IDK. But it sure is funny, and their parsers always give me a good chuckle.

    Speaking of the Third Node (the Electrical thingy), is it worth it? Previous, similar Electrical effects proved to be quite useless.
    Currently, I think not. The damage seems very small

    Here's an example of what it's supposed to do currently:
    Energy Siphon II
    • -23 All Power Settings for 23 sec
    • +23 All Power Settings for 23 sec
    • To Target: 266.5 Elecrtical Damage every 1 sec for 5 seco (max 1x per 5 sec)
    I don't even quite understand the tooltip there.
    So is it 265.5 damage every second for 5 seconds, or is it 265.5 damage once in 5 seconds?
    I suppose if it was 265.5 damage per second for 5 seconds, it would be getting closer to okay. Not stellar, but it's some extra damage you wouldn't have otherwise. Of course, one has to compare that to what you could do with another rank elsewhere.


    Thanks for answering. :)
    3lsZz0w.jpg
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,489 Arc User
    Isn't all this a bit premature?
    Everything on tribble is in testing stage and being evaluated if it is in need of adjustment.

    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    Energy Siphon II
    • -23 All Power Settings for 23 sec
    • +23 All Power Settings for 23 sec
    • To Target: 266.5 Elecrtical Damage every 1 sec for 5 seco (max 1x per 5 sec)
    I don't even quite understand the tooltip there.

    You're right - that could be cleaner. It's meant to indicate that the effect as a whole (a 5-second Electric DOT) can only trigger once per 5sec max, when you hit somebody with a Drain. The rest of the tooltip is pretty standard for DOT effects: XX Dmg every X sec for X seconds.

    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    So if it's all "piloting skill", why are you worried about nerfs? They can't remove knowledge and skills from you, right? Why do you care about a nerf to a specific console or weapon if you're not exploiting it to get your numbers and it all comes from your 1557 skillz?​​

    Me particularly? Because I run a dedicated drain boat. My skill is draining, not DPS. The nerf affects my drian ability. I really couldn't care less about DPS.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    So if it's all "piloting skill", why are you worried about nerfs? They can't remove knowledge and skills from you, right? Why do you care about a nerf to a specific console or weapon if you're not exploiting it to get your numbers and it all comes from your 1557 skillz?​​

    Got 2 words for you: ceterus paribus. Everything else being equal (like piloting skills, and using a Leech), but with major drain nerfs, the end-result = 'less numbers.'
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter

    You're right - that could be cleaner. It's meant to indicate that the effect as a whole (a 5-second Electric DOT) can only trigger once per 5sec max, when you hit somebody with a Drain. The rest of the tooltip is pretty standard for DOT effects: XX Dmg every X sec for X seconds.

    Hmm, I might have to reconsider that skill tree decision. Seems pretty low.
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