Not sure the "trinity" really exists anymore anyways. The ONLY things that differ are captain abilities (apa, snb, etc), and ground kits. There never was a lock on space gear or ship selection. Ever. And even now we are getting mostly Universal kit modules (which until the skill revamp are useless on some chars to a point - a tactical or science officer really cant benefit as much from the overcharge turret or gravimetric mines from the herald box). Im not sure what the answer should be to be honest (maybe hybrid ground kits where a tac kit has a fab slot or something?). But yes, its _THE_ perfect time where this should be heavily analyzed because of the skill revamp. Im not sure this opportunity will come up again where they can align the skill system again with the class system (or really lack thereof)
And then it would be obvious to the devs, with real metrics to back this up, that there is a design imbalance with the captain powers.
There already ARE and it SHOULD be. Just look at the last year's infographic: The majority of players are Tac.
Somebody clearly needs to learn how to quote the right people.
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Not sure the "trinity" really exists anymore anyways.
its still there. just because its buried under half a decade of power creep doesnt get rid of its festering corpse.
one very simple way to know it is there, is the threat mechanics. the npc ai based on them, and the fleet consoles modifying it.
if the trinity cancer wasnt there then these wouldnt exist.
It isn't a cancer, but it really doesn't work in a game with a Z-axis. What's to prevent the mob from just going up and over the tank to rip apart the soon-to-be-nerfed science ship? Or what's to prevent the mob from going along the Z-axis and getting the tactical? It's stretching immersion enough without the Z-axis, because the giant mob should be smacking away the tanks to get to the ones in dresses. Having that additional dimension just makes things goofy.
If we're really going to keep the Trinity, then make them masters of their domain. And to prevent issues, the end result should be within a couple of percentage points. Something like:
1. All ships can heal and do a degree of exotic/DoTs, but Science is the king of healing and exotics. Science ships survive by outlasting their enemy with shield healing and exotic damage/DoTs.
2. All ships can do a reasonable amount of DPS, but Tacticals are the king of DPS. Tactical go in and make the enemy go boom fast, but the current damage needs nerfed. Borg encounters shouldn't be finished within two minutes.
3. All ships should be able to hold their own when things go wrong, but Engineers are the kings of not making their ships explode. Engineers would work similarly to Science, only with more direct damage and fewer DoTs.
The beauty of this kind of balancing act in STO is that we only have three classes to balance in this way. We're getting close to this point anyway due to the power creep, so we might as well codify it in-game.
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True enough but I think it could also ease some.of the stigma the game has going on where there are 60 tacs for every sci and eng in the game because it would basically eradicate the red blue yellow lines and allow people to mix it up much more easily.
This happens in every single MMO. People don't want to tank. People don't want to heal. People want to DPS and do huge numbers.
I'm sorry, but that's simply how it is. If you look at a simple Warcraft 25-man raiding scenario, it's 2 tanks, 5 or 6 healers, and 17-18 DPS. So scenarios are built around not needing a bunch of tanks. Barring a radical design change, this isn't going away.
Then combo that with how god awfully stressful tanking/healing is. It isn't the DPS's fault they stood in the goo and died. IT'S THE HEALER'S FAULT. It isn't the DPS's fault for the wipe; it's always the tank's fault. It is literally never the DPS's fault in the DPS-er's eyes. So you get all of the numbers, none of the guilt, and a free blame token for every issue you ever come across with a DPS.
It's no wonder why people don't tank/heal.
honestly enough there are quite a few "give all the blame none of the glory" ppl but ill tell u one of the most fun matches ive ever had was when I was using my tac and there was a sci who decided to focus all of her attention on me. I couldn't die. really, she was that good. ISA gateway, Tac cube, they just couldn't seem to get my shields down. she was that good. got her in my friends list too with this note by her: Epic Healer.
The OP has it backwards. Making the skill tree career only orientated would introduce the traditional MMO trinity of dps (escorts), tank (cruisers) and science (control/heal). This only really works in premade teams, and the push has been towards more towards dps, because it sells better. MMOs have or are moving more towards hybrids because everyone wants to be a dps hero. Tanks scream at the dps for grabbing too much aggro too early and then blame the healer if their tank fails. Healers have no say, but usually get blamed by everyone, and dps blames everyone else including other dpsers. Is that what you want. I don't. Also how do you compensate all the money/dil making a hybrid builds.
Since I no longer can play the game because of I own a Mac I have been playing a lot of Elder Scrolls Online. I hope one day STO could follow their lead.
The proposal would be any ship can be tactical, science or engineer and it's how you set up the ship that determines the role you want. So lets say that every ship has a base number of consoles and then you have one free empty console spot to place anywhere you want.
Example: T6 Exploration cruiser has 3 tac consoles, 4 eng consoles and 3 sci consoles.....this get changed to 3 across the board and you have one to place where you want it. Want a more tac...place it for 4 tac consoles...want more survivability...have 4 eng consoles...this way your play style isnt hindered by ships
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Give Nadion Inversion and Sensor Scan a CAT2 all damage buff (say 7.5% - 10%) and be done with it.
It's clear that the skill tree revamp won't change the current meta of Tacs having a superior advantage in buffing abilities.
Which is why I say it was a sad waste of 6 months, all that Dev time wasted IMO.
We could've had new content. But we get a UI revamp, that doesn't even accomplish the goal players who wanted it, had for it.
Which was "Equalizing the Captain Classes".
Tac players outnumber every other class by a wide margin as seen on the infographic released a while back.
Was hilarious. And shows just how much the cards are stacked in the Tacs favor.
It's going to be the same thing going forward.
Unless they actually get off their butts and make the Eng and Sci captain abilities more rewarding, everyone who wants the most performance from their character would choose TAC.
In other words, which would you choose ? The Honda Civic, The VW Golf or The Porsche 911 Twin Turbo ?
Very few would choose the civic or golf given the choice.
It's what happening in STO when you choose to be either Eng, Sci, or Tac.
And sadly for many anew player, by the time they realize their "mistake" its far too late to start re-investing into a Tac toon.
Especially considering they may have opened character bound ships on their Sci or Engi.
^Which is why we have threads like this pop up every so often.
Or those that ask for a captain retrain token.
This game has always been a trinity... and the biggest mistake(s) they have made over 6 years has been to constantly blur that for people. From day one this game was supposed to feel like you could do anything by making the real choice your ship. In the dawn of the game... Cruisers where healers Sci ships where debuffers and escorts where dps. Then they gave in to the wine when people couldn't make things splood properly in their own personal Enterprises. The trinity has been "gone" a long time... if anything it would be nice to see cryptic make more changes to bring it back, as a lover of GAMES I and I assume most MMO fans know the trinity makes games more fun. Cryptics Trinity lite year one was very well done... its to bad they caved and became the weak game developers they are today that try and make everyone happy happy happy so they buy the latest greatest RP friendly super ships.
To the OP more specifically I know your talking about the Captain abilities... and its been Cryptics terrible choices that have eroded that as well. There was a time before the weapon power changes... where an Engi in an escort made sense... no alpha sure but you where the only class that could make full energy hurt with Nadion, not to mention overload power dips that returned to 100% power before the next weapon cycle. Science sensor scans... meant something when there wasn't 101 skills and clickys that added -defense and -resist to everything they touched. Tacs where always good at doing dmg... but they sucked at staying alive even in PvE... before we had sets that healed, traits that healed, consoles that healed, and ways to stack defense into the stratosphere.
Cryptic killed all the things I mentioned which really did kill the trinity long ago... a skill revamp isn't going to bring it back... and isn't really how it was killed to begin with. There isn't really any going back to it now... its STO load for a ton of DPS... healing/debuffing has been put on autopilot a long time ago.
I think they should take this time to enforce the MMO trinity myself, but I know not everyone likes it
Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT in a podcast where he was explaining the new skill revamp: Borticus, the dev behind the new skill revamped said: (and I'm paraphrasing here)
" STO has and never will be about the trinity"
It doesn't look like it's ever gonna happen. (but, never say never ? who knows)
I think the main reason is to sell ships myself. In another thread, a new player asked if as a science captain, should he only fly science vessels, (I guess he didn't want to). The replies, in consensus was NO. Examples were given why certain careers worked well in other career oriented ships.
I don't think Cryptic would want to loose sales for those looking to fly ships across their careers. (especially given the situation of science ships in the KDF and RR factions ?) This is only my opinion.
I myself wouldn't mind each career bringing something absolutely necessary in an STF, but I could see how that might restrict some players choices, AND be problematic for other reasons as well, imagine pugs being even more impossible as they sometimes are now.
So I guess hybrids are here to stay, or at least a shadow of them are, I'm not too sure how hybrid friendly the new skill revamp is going to be. (out of my own ignorance, haven't had a chance to see for myself)
I think they should take this time to enforce the MMO trinity myself, but I know not everyone likes it
Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT in a podcast where he was explaining the new skill revamp: Borticus, the dev behind the new skill revamped said: (and I'm paraphrasing here)
" STO has and never will be about the trinity"
It doesn't look like it's ever gonna happen. (but, never say never ? who knows)
I think they should take this time to enforce the MMO trinity myself, but I know not everyone likes it
Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT in a podcast where he was explaining the new skill revamp: Borticus, the dev behind the new skill revamped said: (and I'm paraphrasing here)
" STO has and never will be about the trinity"
It doesn't look like it's ever gonna happen. (but, never say never ? who knows)
Comments
Somebody clearly needs to learn how to quote the right people.
It isn't a cancer, but it really doesn't work in a game with a Z-axis. What's to prevent the mob from just going up and over the tank to rip apart the soon-to-be-nerfed science ship? Or what's to prevent the mob from going along the Z-axis and getting the tactical? It's stretching immersion enough without the Z-axis, because the giant mob should be smacking away the tanks to get to the ones in dresses. Having that additional dimension just makes things goofy.
If we're really going to keep the Trinity, then make them masters of their domain. And to prevent issues, the end result should be within a couple of percentage points. Something like:
1. All ships can heal and do a degree of exotic/DoTs, but Science is the king of healing and exotics. Science ships survive by outlasting their enemy with shield healing and exotic damage/DoTs.
2. All ships can do a reasonable amount of DPS, but Tacticals are the king of DPS. Tactical go in and make the enemy go boom fast, but the current damage needs nerfed. Borg encounters shouldn't be finished within two minutes.
3. All ships should be able to hold their own when things go wrong, but Engineers are the kings of not making their ships explode. Engineers would work similarly to Science, only with more direct damage and fewer DoTs.
The beauty of this kind of balancing act in STO is that we only have three classes to balance in this way. We're getting close to this point anyway due to the power creep, so we might as well codify it in-game.
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
honestly enough there are quite a few "give all the blame none of the glory" ppl but ill tell u one of the most fun matches ive ever had was when I was using my tac and there was a sci who decided to focus all of her attention on me. I couldn't die. really, she was that good. ISA gateway, Tac cube, they just couldn't seem to get my shields down. she was that good. got her in my friends list too with this note by her: Epic Healer.
The proposal would be any ship can be tactical, science or engineer and it's how you set up the ship that determines the role you want. So lets say that every ship has a base number of consoles and then you have one free empty console spot to place anywhere you want.
Example: T6 Exploration cruiser has 3 tac consoles, 4 eng consoles and 3 sci consoles.....this get changed to 3 across the board and you have one to place where you want it. Want a more tac...place it for 4 tac consoles...want more survivability...have 4 eng consoles...this way your play style isnt hindered by ships
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
It's clear that the skill tree revamp won't change the current meta of Tacs having a superior advantage in buffing abilities.
Which is why I say it was a sad waste of 6 months, all that Dev time wasted IMO.
We could've had new content. But we get a UI revamp, that doesn't even accomplish the goal players who wanted it, had for it.
Which was "Equalizing the Captain Classes".
Tac players outnumber every other class by a wide margin as seen on the infographic released a while back.
Was hilarious. And shows just how much the cards are stacked in the Tacs favor.
It's going to be the same thing going forward.
Unless they actually get off their butts and make the Eng and Sci captain abilities more rewarding, everyone who wants the most performance from their character would choose TAC.
In other words, which would you choose ? The Honda Civic, The VW Golf or The Porsche 911 Twin Turbo ?
Very few would choose the civic or golf given the choice.
It's what happening in STO when you choose to be either Eng, Sci, or Tac.
And sadly for many anew player, by the time they realize their "mistake" its far too late to start re-investing into a Tac toon.
Especially considering they may have opened character bound ships on their Sci or Engi.
^Which is why we have threads like this pop up every so often.
Or those that ask for a captain retrain token.
Cryptic killed all the things I mentioned which really did kill the trinity long ago... a skill revamp isn't going to bring it back... and isn't really how it was killed to begin with. There isn't really any going back to it now... its STO load for a ton of DPS... healing/debuffing has been put on autopilot a long time ago.
Correct me if I'm wrong, BUT in a podcast where he was explaining the new skill revamp: Borticus, the dev behind the new skill revamped said: (and I'm paraphrasing here)
" STO has and never will be about the trinity"
It doesn't look like it's ever gonna happen. (but, never say never ? who knows)
I think the main reason is to sell ships myself. In another thread, a new player asked if as a science captain, should he only fly science vessels, (I guess he didn't want to). The replies, in consensus was NO. Examples were given why certain careers worked well in other career oriented ships.
I don't think Cryptic would want to loose sales for those looking to fly ships across their careers. (especially given the situation of science ships in the KDF and RR factions ?) This is only my opinion.
I myself wouldn't mind each career bringing something absolutely necessary in an STF, but I could see how that might restrict some players choices, AND be problematic for other reasons as well, imagine pugs being even more impossible as they sometimes are now.
So I guess hybrids are here to stay, or at least a shadow of them are, I'm not too sure how hybrid friendly the new skill revamp is going to be. (out of my own ignorance, haven't had a chance to see for myself)
Runs away screaming and holding ears