Another question: Will torpedoes and beams still be leveled separately within whatever skill tree they reside? Currently, one must invest entirely in one or the other to fully 'min / max' their build, meaning torpedoes are left in the dust, more often the not. It would be nice to see incentive to incorporate torps into an otherwise beam-dominated endgame loadout.
We're proud to announce our new Skill System Revamp! We have set out to create a more streamlined experience that makes gaining levels and skills more enjoyable and impactful.
I still don't know what I was waiting for
And my time was running wild
A million dead-end streets
Every time I thought I'd got it made
It seemed the taste was not so sweet So I turned myself to face me
But I've never caught a glimpse
Of how the others must see the faker
I'm much too fast to take that test
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Turn and face the strain
Ch-ch-Changes
Don't have to be a richer man
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Don't want to be a better man
Time may change me
But I can't trace time
I watch the ripples change their size
But never leave the stream
Of warm impermanence and
So the days float through my eyes
But the days still seem the same
And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They're quite aware of what they're going through
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Don't tell them to grow up and out of it
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Where's your shame
You've left us up to our necks in it
Time may change me
But you can't trace time
Strange fascination, fascinating me
Changes are taking the pace I'm going thru
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Look out you Rock'n' rollers
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Pretty soon now you're gonna get older
Time may change me
But I can't trace time
I said that time may change me
But I can't trace time
We're proud to announce our new Skill System Revamp! We have set out to create a more streamlined experience that makes gaining levels and skills more enjoyable and impactful.
I still don't know what I was waiting for
And my time was running wild
A million dead-end streets
Every time I thought I'd got it made
It seemed the taste was not so sweet So I turned myself to face me
But I've never caught a glimpse
Of how the others must see the faker
I'm much too fast to take that test
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Turn and face the strain
Ch-ch-Changes
Don't have to be a richer man
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Don't want to be a better man
Time may change me
But I can't trace time
I watch the ripples change their size
But never leave the stream
Of warm impermanence and
So the days float through my eyes
But the days still seem the same
And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They're quite aware of what they're going through
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Don't tell them to grow up and out of it
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Where's your shame
You've left us up to our necks in it
Time may change me
But you can't trace time
Strange fascination, fascinating me
Changes are taking the pace I'm going thru
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Look out you Rock'n' rollers
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Pretty soon now you're gonna get older
Time may change me
But I can't trace time
I said that time may change me
But I can't trace time
Pretty darn spiffy there Trendy! The song you picked fits in with the Time Travel of Season 11 !!! Fine job there. Outstanding!
Hmm not really a fan of the splitting of ground and space skills. This will make several of my toons more or less redundant.
How so? under the old system, you were required to invest in the ground skills to progress up the tiers of the skills. WIth this new system, you have 10 ground skill points specifically for the ground skills, seperated from the space skill points.
That's true. But right now, you have a choice of allocating 66.000 or 100.000 points into the ground part. Meaning you can have dedicated ground toons, which I have. A lot of dedicated ground toons, I might add.
It looks like under this new system, we'll always have 10 out of 20 ground skills, or what would be 50.000 points under the current system. Meaning you can no longer have specialised ground toons, based on this information (I may be missing something though).
Also, under the current system you can choose to partly fill some skills. It looks like the new system will have you either buy or not buy something. Meaning less flexibility. All in all, this doesn't seem to benefit those of us who specifically created new toons to try different builds and have specialised characters. To be honest, I think the current skills system is fine. I don't think the new system will actually be an improvement
I'm sure combining skills will help with understanding what skills actually do. . .
I'd rather work in a system that lets me pick exactly what I want for my build. I can't see this not further encouraging FAW syndrome and sameness in STO. Opportunity cost is not something easily ignored.
Oh NO. The design looks so horrible. Is there time to update/change or give to community for some input or too late? I know there's lots of work behind it but the icons are just awful and boring....
If the past is an example of anything. PWE does not listen to our feedback, so why ask for it? Taking the skill tree and making it as generic as possible seems like it takes the fun out of space combat and the little skill that was involved in it in the first place.
As it stands, the ability to create certain BOff power books is linked to putting X or Y amount of points into Z skill. What's going to happen there under the new system ?
You will get a total of 46 Space Points and 10 Ground Points. There are 90 Space Skill Nodes you can purchase, and 20 Ground Skill Nodes. So no, you won't be able to buy everything.
That's a shame
Not as much as you are thinking:
Currently -
spendable : max possible
space = 300,000 : 630,000, ratio = 0.47619...
ground = 100,000 : 180,000 ratio = 0.55555...
New -
spendable : max possible
space = 46 : 90 ratio = 0.51111....
ground = 10 : 20 ratio = 0.5
So the only people being nerfed are pure ground specced characters; an average player can expect an increase in their potential given the vast majority of players spec more into space than ground.
The old system awarded a decreasing Skill improvement (18/18/18/10/10/10/5/5/5) per "pip" purchased, where you could trade say 15 Skill in something you might consider a priority to gain 54 Skill in something you desired as a secondary characteristic, while conversely allowing you to completely ignore one category of high-cost Skills (say Subspace Decompiler) in order to allow for a heavier investment in less expensive Skills (say Graviton Generators). The new system lacks that capability, with each unlock costing just as much as the next. Until we actually get a chance to see what it does in practice, I think your math is a tad simplistic.
My maths demonstrates that this kind of post: (quoted as an example of the kind)
Is wrong based on the information we have currently, given we have very little idea how the new system works.
Now, you are correct to say it is simplified; however, do you have enough information to do the comparison you want to make?
Not simplified, simplistic... none of us has the information needed to make a direct comparison. Like I said, we need to see what it does in practice before saying that a ratio of points spendable has any relevance (given that we don't know that the points in the new thing will do just yet). You could be entirely correct, @daveny could be entirely correct... but we just don't know until we see what we're spending on rather than just how much can be spent on something.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Oh NO. The design looks so horrible. Is there time to update/change or give to community for some input or too late? I know there's lots of work behind it but the icons are just awful and boring....
Speaking of which, multi-tab layout would also make it more difficult to compare available choices at a glance.... Now you can click on a skill, read what it does, click on another... With this one it would be... "Err, what this thing I saw two tabs ago did again?"
I hope this new system will remove the class dependence on certain kinds of ships. As it stands now an engineer will never be as good as a tactical officer in an escort ship or a tactical officer in a cruiser. Which really locks people into certain classed ships for their character if they want to excel in that specific ship type. I figure not too many people want to grind an entirely new character just so they can be really good at one certain type of ship over another. You'd probably sell more ships too if people didn't feel so locked into specific ship classes.
That will never change. Ships are designed around it! If you are playing a science officer, you chose that role. The science vessels were built to accommodate your class. If you want to fly different ships and be totally effective, then why not roll a new captain?
Funny I would thought the reasoning was pretty obvious , you have to level a whole new character , regrind all the reputation , buy new doffs , buy new weapons , buy new equipment , buy new traits. That is a lot to do just to play a different ship type effectively.
It just occurred to me that I didn't see an explanation in the blog how the new skill tree will affect abilities trained into BOFF's from player skill expertise, and what of existing skill manuals we have in inventory- will they disappear or be replaced ?
As one of that rare species otherwise known as a ground tank science/command player, I have a question concerning the removal of ground threat control. I have noticed over time that due to damage creep, threat control has become weaker/insufficient to hold enemy aggro reliably. With its elimination, will we finally be getting a ground player-based hard taunt to force enemies to target us (like the one space has on the pilot tree)? Bonus points if all classes can use it, allowing sci to tank with its heals and eng to build as an electrostatic/psionic feedback reflector.
I hope this new system will remove the class dependence on certain kinds of ships. As it stands now an engineer will never be as good as a tactical officer in an escort ship or a tactical officer in a cruiser. Which really locks people into certain classed ships for their character if they want to excel in that specific ship type. I figure not too many people want to grind an entirely new character just so they can be really good at one certain type of ship over another. You'd probably sell more ships too if people didn't feel so locked into specific ship classes.
That will never change. Ships are designed around it! If you are playing a science officer, you chose that role. The science vessels were built to accommodate your class. If you want to fly different ships and be totally effective, then why not roll a new captain?
Funny I would thought the reasoning was pretty obvious , you have to level a whole new character , regrind all the reputation , buy new doffs , buy new weapons , buy new equipment , buy new traits. That is a lot to do just to play a different ship type effectively.
Starting off a character/Officer as a blank slate and skilling into the career choice you want to do sounds really good to me as you can respec and skill into another career if you choose too this is still picking a role however you are not then forced to create a separate character to change your career which is still in keeping with the star trek universe as you can switch career in star fleet.
As much as possible, the descriptions of Skills in the new system will detail exactly how they work. Sometimes in excruciating detail. The benefits you gain from investing in those Skills will also be as detailed as possible.
De-mystifying the game was one of our primary goals with this revamp, which we're doing our best to achieve.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Oh NO. The design looks so horrible. Is there time to update/change or give to community for some input or too late? I know there's lots of work behind it but the icons are just awful and boring....
The icons are a work in progress, as are a few other small UI details. Don't worry too much about it!
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
It just occurred to me that I didn't see an explanation in the blog how the new skill tree will affect abilities trained into BOFF's from player skill expertise, and what of existing skill manuals we have in inventory- will they disappear or be replaced ?
Boffs don't have Skills (Abilities aren't the same thing), so no changes there!
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Oh NO. The design looks so horrible. Is there time to update/change or give to community for some input or too late? I know there's lots of work behind it but the icons are just awful and boring....
The icons are a work in progress, as are a few other small UI details. Don't worry too much about it!
It just occurred to me that I didn't see an explanation in the blog how the new skill tree will affect abilities trained into BOFF's from player skill expertise, and what of existing skill manuals we have in inventory- will they disappear or be replaced ?
Boffs don't have Skills (Abilities aren't the same thing), so no changes there!
I think what was meant wasn't boff abilities as such, but training manual crafting. It is currently tied into the skill system, and it's not quite obvious how it will translate.
That's true. But right now, you have a choice of allocating 66.000 or 100.000 points into the ground part. Meaning you can have dedicated ground toons, which I have. A lot of dedicated ground toons, I might add.
It looks like under this new system, we'll always have 10 out of 20 ground skills, or what would be 50.000 points under the current system. Meaning you can no longer have specialised ground toons, based on this information (I may be missing something though).
Also, under the current system you can choose to partly fill some skills. It looks like the new system will have you either buy or not buy something. Meaning less flexibility. All in all, this doesn't seem to benefit those of us who specifically created new toons to try different builds and have specialised characters. To be honest, I think the current skills system is fine. I don't think the new system will actually be an improvement
For you with your characters, it'll likely be worse - but not as badly as you're expecting, as you'll be down to the equivalent of 90,000 points, not 50,000.
For a character who put the maximum into space skills, they are effectively gaining 24,000 skill points in ground, and they are also gaining 22,000 skill points in space.
So, for your characters, your ground guys are getting nerfed, there is no debate on that, but they will at least get the consolation prize of a large boost to space skill points, about 54,000 skill points compared to what they had before assuming you put the minimum into space.
FYI: Bort has answered more important questions on Tribble. Pasting below since some are pretty good.
When we acquire a skill (passive or active), do we get the full 99 points we would have had from maxing the equivalent skill under the old system?
You'll actually be getting the equivalent of 100 points instead of 99. But it will usually be split into multiple nodes.
For 3-node Skills: 50, 35, 15
For 2-node Skills: 60, 40
I'm assuming that batteries, driver coil, and threat control are all engineering unlocks. The problem is that the user might want some of these, but not all of them. And if the unlocks are granted automatically based on the number of points spent in the engineering branch, then the user loses control over which unlocks are acquired.
Some are automatically granted, but most are Choices that let you customize your character. Threat Control, for example, is offered as a choice, with the opposite choice being ... yknow, I forget offhand. I think Stealth boosts?
Almost all ground skills under the old system were kit skills. With all kit skills getting merged, what exactly is taking their place?
We've introduced a few new Skills, such as Weapon Penetration (Adds +Pen to ground weapons) and Endurance Training (Increases Max HP). But it's true that there are far fewer Ground Skills than there are Space Skills. You'll also have fewer Ground Points to spend, though.
Are you going to explain the math? The math behind some game mechanics, such as damage resistance and turn rate, is a mystery to most players. I'm still not sure anyone completely understands damage resistance, though rbaker82 did a good job demystifying much of it. Some of the newer mechanics like shield hardness, shield penetration, and armor penetration could also use an explanation.
Many underlying mechanics, such as those you mention, are being streamlined as much as possible. Small tweaks up/down to simplify their calculations and make it possible for us to easily explain to players what 1 Point of X Skill gets them.
(Long-Range Targeting Sensors) Do they both have 'old' Cannon drop-off, or both have 'old' Beam drop-off? Or is it a new intermediate value, given the new skill?
There's more to this than is covered in the blog, as well. We have also normalized the drop-off between Cannons and Beams, as part of these changes. Both have the same drop-off calculations, now.
Previously:
Cannons lost 60% of their base damage potential at 10km
Beams lost 40% of their base damage potential at 10km
Now:
Both lose 50% of their base damage potential at 10km (and this loss can be mitigated with the new Skill)
What about consoles?
Existing Consoles will be translated to the new Skills. You'll see plenty (possibly too many) that boost Control Expertise and/or Drain Expertise.
Now, with this in mind, I still can't revise my first post much:
Currently -
spendable : max possible
space = 300,000 : 630,000, ratio = 0.47619...
ground = 100,000 : 180,000 ratio = 0.55555...
New -
spendable : max possible
space = 46 : 90 ratio = 0.51111....
ground = 10 : 20 ratio = 0.5
As I don't have the information available, beyond being able to draw out that a 3 node skill has gained the equivalent of an extra point at the part where a extra point would be most beneficial.
Any chance of space magic being reworked to work more like weapon slots, or some other alternate system? I like the boff skills system overall, but when space magic is your focus it feels a little clunky.
It just occurred to me that I didn't see an explanation in the blog how the new skill tree will affect abilities trained into BOFF's from player skill expertise, and what of existing skill manuals we have in inventory- will they disappear or be replaced ?
Boffs don't have Skills (Abilities aren't the same thing), so no changes there!
I believe lordmalak was referring to the ability to create BOff PADDs that unlock when you have either three or six levels in specific skills in each Career.
Mainly with the merging of a number of SCI skills, how will that affect getting access to create level III PADDs in Tachyon Beam, Gravity Well, Scramble Sensors, or Photonic Shockwave?
Thank you for the time...
STO CBT Player - 400 day+ Vet, Currently Silver
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
Full, Story-driven, select from start 1-50 Klingon Side
Scrap current Lock Box & Lobi system for something more reasonable
Expand Dil and Rep/Fleet Marks to regular story content
Oh NO. The design looks so horrible. Is there time to update/change or give to community for some input or too late? I know there's lots of work behind it but the icons are just awful and boring....
Speaking of which, multi-tab layout would also make it more difficult to compare available choices at a glance.... Now you can click on a skill, read what it does, click on another... With this one it would be... "Err, what this thing I saw two tabs ago did again?"
what multitab... that's the entire thing, the sci stuff is under the sci banner, the tac under the tac...
my last major worry at the moment is how this will effect my ability to use flow caps as a tac toon. i have them because they work with certain abilities and they go good with how i prefer to play. i'm just curious as to if i'll have the same access or close to the same access to them as a tac.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
It just occurred to me that I didn't see an explanation in the blog how the new skill tree will affect abilities trained into BOFF's from player skill expertise, and what of existing skill manuals we have in inventory- will they disappear or be replaced ?
Boffs don't have Skills (Abilities aren't the same thing), so no changes there!
I think what was meant wasn't boff abilities as such, but training manual crafting. It is currently tied into the skill system, and it's not quite obvious how it will translate.
Yes, this. Those 'abilities' taught BOFF's came from skills the player invested in (and sometimes from other players as well) and there was no mention of how much 'skill' the player under the new system would need to create those manuals, or if the abilities themselves would be combined with other abilities. Are we looking at respec'ing our BOFF's as well when the new system rolls out ?
Comments
Is this for strictly hangar pets only, or will it also include others?
I'm thinking about ones that separate from our ships mostly. Like the Galaxy Saucer, Odyssey Aquarius and Chevron, and the Prometheus Multi-Vector.
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Nothing wrong with using those. They're very good engines, especially because of the attack pattern boost for dps builds.
Another question: Will torpedoes and beams still be leveled separately within whatever skill tree they reside? Currently, one must invest entirely in one or the other to fully 'min / max' their build, meaning torpedoes are left in the dust, more often the not. It would be nice to see incentive to incorporate torps into an otherwise beam-dominated endgame loadout.
Changes
David Bowie
Lyrics
I still don't know what I was waiting for
And my time was running wild
A million dead-end streets
Every time I thought I'd got it made
It seemed the taste was not so sweet
So I turned myself to face me
But I've never caught a glimpse
Of how the others must see the faker
I'm much too fast to take that test
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Turn and face the strain
Ch-ch-Changes
Don't have to be a richer man
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Don't want to be a better man
Time may change me
But I can't trace time
I watch the ripples change their size
But never leave the stream
Of warm impermanence and
So the days float through my eyes
But the days still seem the same
And these children that you spit on
As they try to change their worlds
Are immune to your consultations
They're quite aware of what they're going through
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Don't tell them to grow up and out of it
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Where's your shame
You've left us up to our necks in it
Time may change me
But you can't trace time
Strange fascination, fascinating me
Changes are taking the pace I'm going thru
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Look out you Rock'n' rollers
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
Ch-ch-Changes (Turn and face the strange)
Pretty soon now you're gonna get older
Time may change me
But I can't trace time
I said that time may change me
But I can't trace time
Pretty darn spiffy there Trendy! The song you picked fits in with the Time Travel of Season 11 !!! Fine job there. Outstanding!
That's true. But right now, you have a choice of allocating 66.000 or 100.000 points into the ground part. Meaning you can have dedicated ground toons, which I have. A lot of dedicated ground toons, I might add.
It looks like under this new system, we'll always have 10 out of 20 ground skills, or what would be 50.000 points under the current system. Meaning you can no longer have specialised ground toons, based on this information (I may be missing something though).
Also, under the current system you can choose to partly fill some skills. It looks like the new system will have you either buy or not buy something. Meaning less flexibility. All in all, this doesn't seem to benefit those of us who specifically created new toons to try different builds and have specialised characters. To be honest, I think the current skills system is fine. I don't think the new system will actually be an improvement
I see mention of drain and control... what about exotic damage?
I'd rather work in a system that lets me pick exactly what I want for my build. I can't see this not further encouraging FAW syndrome and sameness in STO. Opportunity cost is not something easily ignored.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Not simplified, simplistic... none of us has the information needed to make a direct comparison. Like I said, we need to see what it does in practice before saying that a ratio of points spendable has any relevance (given that we don't know that the points in the new thing will do just yet). You could be entirely correct, @daveny could be entirely correct... but we just don't know until we see what we're spending on rather than just how much can be spent on something.
Speaking of which, multi-tab layout would also make it more difficult to compare available choices at a glance.... Now you can click on a skill, read what it does, click on another... With this one it would be... "Err, what this thing I saw two tabs ago did again?"
Funny I would thought the reasoning was pretty obvious , you have to level a whole new character , regrind all the reputation , buy new doffs , buy new weapons , buy new equipment , buy new traits. That is a lot to do just to play a different ship type effectively.
It just occurred to me that I didn't see an explanation in the blog how the new skill tree will affect abilities trained into BOFF's from player skill expertise, and what of existing skill manuals we have in inventory- will they disappear or be replaced ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Starting off a character/Officer as a blank slate and skilling into the career choice you want to do sounds really good to me as you can respec and skill into another career if you choose too this is still picking a role however you are not then forced to create a separate character to change your career which is still in keeping with the star trek universe as you can switch career in star fleet.
As much as possible, the descriptions of Skills in the new system will detail exactly how they work. Sometimes in excruciating detail.
De-mystifying the game was one of our primary goals with this revamp, which we're doing our best to achieve.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
The icons are a work in progress, as are a few other small UI details. Don't worry too much about it!
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Boffs don't have Skills (Abilities aren't the same thing), so no changes there!
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
COOL...Thank you BORT
For you with your characters, it'll likely be worse - but not as badly as you're expecting, as you'll be down to the equivalent of 90,000 points, not 50,000.
For a character who put the maximum into space skills, they are effectively gaining 24,000 skill points in ground, and they are also gaining 22,000 skill points in space.
So, for your characters, your ground guys are getting nerfed, there is no debate on that, but they will at least get the consolation prize of a large boost to space skill points, about 54,000 skill points compared to what they had before assuming you put the minimum into space.
Also requoting this for more information:
Now, with this in mind, I still can't revise my first post much:
Currently -
spendable : max possible
space = 300,000 : 630,000, ratio = 0.47619...
ground = 100,000 : 180,000 ratio = 0.55555...
New -
spendable : max possible
space = 46 : 90 ratio = 0.51111....
ground = 10 : 20 ratio = 0.5
As I don't have the information available, beyond being able to draw out that a 3 node skill has gained the equivalent of an extra point at the part where a extra point would be most beneficial.
I believe lordmalak was referring to the ability to create BOff PADDs that unlock when you have either three or six levels in specific skills in each Career.
Mainly with the merging of a number of SCI skills, how will that affect getting access to create level III PADDs in Tachyon Beam, Gravity Well, Scramble Sensors, or Photonic Shockwave?
Thank you for the time...
Cryptic, would you actulaly like me to spend actual Money? It's Simple:
what multitab... that's the entire thing, the sci stuff is under the sci banner, the tac under the tac...
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Yes, this. Those 'abilities' taught BOFF's came from skills the player invested in (and sometimes from other players as well) and there was no mention of how much 'skill' the player under the new system would need to create those manuals, or if the abilities themselves would be combined with other abilities. Are we looking at respec'ing our BOFF's as well when the new system rolls out ?
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG