Also, I definitely think the UI needs work. And I really dislike that there is no "Commit" Step for a final selection of abilities. This will be very error-prone if they keep it as is.
^^ Yes, yes, this we need! (Especially when free respec tokens won't be available any more on Tribble.)
Without just 1 single 'Commit' button, you essentially have to have made a full spending plan, upfront, in your head (or drawn on paper) as to how you will account for each and every skill point, ere you commit per skill. That is, no offence, rather idiotic (especially so for new players). It's not a Specialization tree, where it matters little (as you're just gonna fill it all up anyway). People want to play around with it, like "Hmm, maybe 1 Control Point will suffice, and I can shift 1 to Drain, etc." Or "Oops, guess I really need at least 1 in X too, so let me take a point from Y." And then only commit the lot when they're completely satisfied with everything.
If you only take small pieces of advice, Devs, let this issue be one you take heed to! Please?
I do agree with this. One of the major plus sides of the current system is that we can 'play around' with it and move points around to compromise on systems in favour of other systems, all before committing them. Unless the new system will no longer require purchased respec tokens from the C-Store, then it really needs to have the ability to do the same and let us move points around before committing them. Otherwise, as meimeitoo pointed out, we'd have to have a rock solid plan of our complete skill tree before even starting to spend points.
Part of this change was, in your own words, to make it less punishing for players. But the basis of how we assign points is far more punishing as if you make one mistake during your respec you have to pay real world money to undo it.
Tbh it kinda sounds like neverwinters feats you mess up on those and you have to spend for a respec token to fix what you messed up.
This "Revamp" is Sounding more like something geared to selling respec tokens
Maybe someone from PW / Cryptic Studios should get a hold of John Smedley from SOE and ask him how well his CU / NGE "make things easier for the player base" changes worked out for Star Wars Galaxies ... if you are a former SWG Pre-Pub 9 / Pre-CU player, you already know the answer ... it didn't ...
Yes Pre-CU players hated NGE. But NGE is not why the game was cancelled, it was cancelled because LucasArts wanted only one Star Wars MMO and that was to be SWTOR. They pulled the license from SOE. Shoot I remember someone at SOE saying if LucasArts had let them they would have left SWG online regardless if they could make new content for it or not, but LucasArts wouldn't let them. They didn't want any competition for SWTOR.
Yeah I was not inferring as to why the game was cancelled, but more towards why players left in droves because of the drastic "dumbed down" changes implemented by the CU and then the even more "make things easier" changes brought on by the NGE ...
I get why Pre-CU players saw it that way. I personally saw it as an improvement. I hated Pre-CU and loved NGE.
Also, I definitely think the UI needs work. And I really dislike that there is no "Commit" Step for a final selection of abilities. This will be very error-prone if they keep it as is.
^^ Yes, yes, this we need! (Especially when free respec tokens won't be available any more on Tribble.)
Without just 1 single 'Commit' button, you essentially have to have made a full spending plan, upfront, in your head (or drawn on paper) as to how you will account for each and every skill point, ere you commit per skill. That is, no offence, rather idiotic (especially so for new players). It's not a Specialization tree, where it matters little (as you're just gonna fill it all up anyway). People want to play around with it, like "Hmm, maybe 1 Control Point will suffice, and I can shift 1 to Drain, etc." Or "Oops, guess I really need at least 1 in X too, so let me take a point from Y." And then only commit the lot when they're completely satisfied with everything.
If you only take small pieces of advice, Devs, let this issue be one you take heed to! Please?
I do agree with this. One of the major plus sides of the current system is that we can 'play around' with it and move points around to compromise on systems in favour of other systems, all before committing them. Unless the new system will no longer require purchased respec tokens from the C-Store, then it really needs to have the ability to do the same and let us move points around before committing them. Otherwise, as meimeitoo pointed out, we'd have to have a rock solid plan of our complete skill tree before even starting to spend points.
Part of this change was, in your own words, to make it less punishing for players. But the basis of how we assign points is far more punishing as if you make one mistake during your respec you have to pay real world money to undo it.
Tbh it kinda sounds like neverwinters feats you mess up on those and you have to spend for a respec token to fix what you messed up.
This "Revamp" is Sounding more like something geared to selling respec tokens
almost, but not quite...because in neverwinter, you TRIBBLE up on a feat choice, you can spend astral diamonds (AKA their version of dilithium) to wipe the slate clean instead of needing to buy a respec, and the cost scales up the more feats you'd already purchased when you made the screwup
very cheap if you TRIBBLE up early into the feat tree, not so much if you're almost max level...and at that point, it'd probably be cheaper to buy a respec token
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Also, I definitely think the UI needs work. And I really dislike that there is no "Commit" Step for a final selection of abilities. This will be very error-prone if they keep it as is.
^^ Yes, yes, this we need! (Especially when free respec tokens won't be available any more on Tribble.)
Without just 1 single 'Commit' button, you essentially have to have made a full spending plan, upfront, in your head (or drawn on paper) as to how you will account for each and every skill point, ere you commit per skill. That is, no offence, rather idiotic (especially so for new players). It's not a Specialization tree, where it matters little (as you're just gonna fill it all up anyway). People want to play around with it, like "Hmm, maybe 1 Control Point will suffice, and I can shift 1 to Drain, etc." Or "Oops, guess I really need at least 1 in X too, so let me take a point from Y." And then only commit the lot when they're completely satisfied with everything.
If you only take small pieces of advice, Devs, let this issue be one you take heed to! Please?
I do agree with this. One of the major plus sides of the current system is that we can 'play around' with it and move points around to compromise on systems in favour of other systems, all before committing them. Unless the new system will no longer require purchased respec tokens from the C-Store, then it really needs to have the ability to do the same and let us move points around before committing them. Otherwise, as meimeitoo pointed out, we'd have to have a rock solid plan of our complete skill tree before even starting to spend points.
Part of this change was, in your own words, to make it less punishing for players. But the basis of how we assign points is far more punishing as if you make one mistake during your respec you have to pay real world money to undo it.
Tbh it kinda sounds like neverwinters feats you mess up on those and you have to spend for a respec token to fix what you messed up.
This "Revamp" is Sounding more like something geared to selling respec tokens
almost, but not quite...because in neverwinter, you TRIBBLE up on a feat choice, you can spend astral diamonds (AKA their version of dilithium) to wipe the slate clean instead of needing to buy a respec, and the cost scales up the more feats you'd already purchased when you made the screwup
very cheap if you TRIBBLE up early into the feat tree, not so much if you're almost max level...and at that point, it'd probably be cheaper to buy a respec token
Champions also lets you roll back powers a level at a time (post-commit) without spending money on Zen or needing to convert Questionite. It's not cheap, but it's in-game currency and way less expensive than a complete respec. If STO did something like that with skills, I'd be okay with it. But they won't and I won't be happy about spending Zen on unnecessary respecs. They better put in a commit button or make respecs free or hand out a generous amount of them after this thing launches.
If I mess something up while leveling, it's my fault and I'll deal with it. But if I mess up reskilling a level 50+ character on an enforced respec and have to pay to fix it, I will not be a happy camper.
@tuenbreaker, you made a transition of @meimeitoo ‘s current skill tree into the new format on tribble if I’m not mistaken? This is quiet cool.
She has spent 6 points the Admiral ability Starship Energy Weapon Specialization granting her
+1,7% Crit H & 21,22% Crit D for energy based armaments.
Where did u implement those benefits under the new system?
Been working a bit on this myself as well. See:
It looks very good this way, but it's all provisionally, as I got reliable word that he old shield regen rate (and possibly) hardness increase, based on shield power level, are going to get a nerf, which would mean I will need to allocate skill points towards the new shield skills as well (losing ca. 3-9 points in the process if, worst case, existing hull skills get a similar nerf.)
I'm goig to make sceencaps of my current ship stats, and then compare those with the ones I'll make this Thursday, after the patch, when I can jump into my real ship and toon again.
I keep seeing people talk about "Thursday's patch" for tribble being when they will release everyone's characters. Unless you have any insider information on there being a patch for tribble that day, how do you know that's exactly when they'll unlock tribble for our characters?
IIRC, Borticus said that we'd have 1 week to do the testing with these new characters. Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a week be Friday?
I keep seeing people talk about "Thursday's patch" for tribble being when they will release everyone's characters. Unless you have any insider information on there being a patch for tribble that day, how do you know that's exactly when they'll unlock tribble for our characters?
IIRC, Borticus said that we'd have 1 week to do the testing with these new characters. Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a week be Friday?
Since last week's maintenance (coincidentally?) coincided with Friday, I loosely assumed they were tying it to the regular maintenance. But yeah, he said 1 week. So, since Tribble has its own (rather haphazard) maintenance cycle, apart from the rather strict Holodeck scheduling, it may well indeed just literally be Friday, instead of Thursday.
At any rate, it's Coming To A Theater Near You Very Soon!
@tuenbreaker, you made a transition of @meimeitoo ‘s current skill tree into the new format on tribble if I’m not mistaken? This is quiet cool.
She has spent 6 points the Admiral ability Starship Energy Weapon Specialization granting her
+1,7% Crit H & 21,22% Crit D for energy based armaments.
Where did u implement those benefits under the new system?
Been working a bit on this myself as well. See:
It looks very good this way, but it's all provisionally, as I got reliable word that he old shield regen rate (and possibly) hardness increase, based on shield power level, are going to get a nerf, which would mean I will need to allocate skill points towards the new shield skills as well (losing ca. 3-9 points in the process if, worst case, existing hull skills get a similar nerf.)
I'm goig to make sceencaps of my current ship stats, and then compare those with the ones I'll make this Thursday, after the patch, when I can jump into my real ship and toon again.
I keep seeing people talk about "Thursday's patch" for tribble being when they will release everyone's characters. Unless you have any insider information on there being a patch for tribble that day, how do you know that's exactly when they'll unlock tribble for our characters?
IIRC, Borticus said that we'd have 1 week to do the testing with these new characters. Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a week be Friday?
The Thursday date was mentioned in the annoucement, That is were we are getting that information.
This "Revamp" is Sounding more like something geared to selling respec tokens
They will be selling like hotcakes when this goes live to holodeck.
Problem as I see it is, this game is always telling me what to spend my money on, instead of what I WANT to spend money on.
Personally, I'd rather buy the flagships than stock up on a bunch of respect tokens, tryin to figure the optimal skill tree. that part burns my marshmallow.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Not complaining or anything but my builds dont allow me to unlock any of the Uber Abilitys at the end of the tree, i prefer a balance to my builds not Tac/Eng/Sci Heavy, this seem more like a nerf not a improvement... but i've played with the system on tribble and it has some interesting things on it "Long-Range targeting" for example great for my Cannon boats.
And i wouldn't Mind some feed back from a dev, trying to prove me wrong...
Not complaining or anything but my builds dont allow me to unlock any of the Uber Abilitys at the end of the tree, i prefer a balance to my builds not Tac/Eng/Sci Heavy, this seem more like a nerf not a improvement... but i've played with the system on tribble and it has some interesting things on it "Long-Range targeting" for example great for my Cannon boats.
And i wouldn't Mind some feed back from a dev, trying to prove me wrong...
a) Do you have the uber abilities now?
b) Can you more or less replicate your holodeck builds on tribble?
If the answers are a) no and b) yes, how is it a nerf?
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Not complaining or anything but my builds dont allow me to unlock any of the Uber Abilitys at the end of the tree, i prefer a balance to my builds not Tac/Eng/Sci Heavy, this seem more like a nerf not a improvement... but i've played with the system on tribble and it has some interesting things on it "Long-Range targeting" for example great for my Cannon boats.
And i wouldn't Mind some feed back from a dev, trying to prove me wrong...
a) Do you have the uber abilities now?
b) Can you more or less replicate your holodeck builds on tribble?
If the answers are a) no and b) yes, how is it a nerf?
Um, yeah. Like 'Long-range Targeting.' That was gratuitously built-in on your beams, got pre-nerfed, with an option to 'buy' back. Or shield regen/hardness, now also nerfed, but which you can get back by getting the 'new' skills (partially, at least: exact effects of the pre-nerf are as of yet unknown).
b) Can you more or less replicate your holodeck builds on tribble?
Bit of a silly question, really, as *everyone* now only has access to a brand new toon (unless some ppl were actually crazy enough to level up their new toon to lv. 60, buy all the gear, make it all Epic, do all the Spezializations, just to get to where they are now; but I think it's safe to assume no one did).
Um, yeah. Like 'Long-range Targeting.' That was gratuitously built-in on your beams, got pre-nerfed, with an option to 'buy' back. Or shield regen/hardness, now also nerfed, but which you can get back by getting the 'new' skills (partially, at least: exact effects of the pre-nerf are as of yet unknown).
b) Can you more or less replicate your holodeck builds on tribble?
Bit of a silly question, really, as *everyone* now only has access to a brand new toon (unless some ppl were actually crazy enough to level up their new toon to lv. 60, buy all the gear, make it all Epic, do all the Spezializations, just to get to where they are now; but I think it's safe to assume no one did).
the B ) Question is kinda silly, we cant get the ships we use for said builds, like the mercury, b/c the Z-store is disabled, so i cant replicate my build... HEY CRYPTIC make the Z-Store ships FREE on Tribble so we can Test fly them or at least make the ships we have already bought available to use on tribble.
have a feeling some stuff is going to be nerfed into the ground from this skill change thingy
It wouldn't be STO unless they did it like that. Although I think I'll stick to playing the game they copied this look from. Although its not unexpected but I would hope at some point that they would become original about something.
I got lost about halfway through to be honest, though I'd like to reserve judgment till I see it.
My one concern is, for the level 60 players since I've notice I don't level up anymore will this affect my skills? and how will this affect the skills I already have?
@tuenbreaker, you made a transition of @meimeitoo ‘s current skill tree into the new format on tribble if I’m not mistaken? This is quiet cool.
She has spent 6 points the Admiral ability Starship Energy Weapon Specialization granting her
+1,7% Crit H & 21,22% Crit D for energy based armaments.
Where did u implement those benefits under the new system?
Been working a bit on this myself as well. See:
It looks very good this way, but it's all provisionally, as I got reliable word that he old shield regen rate (and possibly) hardness increase, based on shield power level, are going to get a nerf, which would mean I will need to allocate skill points towards the new shield skills as well (losing ca. 3-9 points in the process if, worst case, existing hull skills get a similar nerf.)
I'm goig to make sceencaps of my current ship stats, and then compare those with the ones I'll make this Thursday, after the patch, when I can jump into my real ship and toon again.
I wonder, do they even need to nerf our shields, or do the NPC ships get the same access to the new armor and shield penetration we do?
Funny thing is, if thats the way they went about it, I really wouldn't mind it. I can replicate my build on test with a few points left over and I don't think it a bad thing if new NPC abilities means it's not easy to decide where to spend them.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
null @scripp It also brings back memories of Cryptic's specialty system implementation which included a hard nerf to the Might set in Champions in iirc 2011. A nerf which made many quit playing. Sometimes balance isn't.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
No your current build you have spent time and resources on will no longer work but "you won't lose anything". No you won't quite be able to duplicate your skills and top tier skills you have to buy back, "but you won't lose anything".
Sounds to me like I'm losing the time and resources invested in my current Character AND Ship builds as well as the time and resources to set up new builds with the now ADDITIONAL cost of buying back some vague semblance of the top tier skills I am LOSING.... "but I'm not losing anything" ......
REALLY?
If I am SPENDING time and resources how am I not losing something? This sounds like some kind of SPIN out of the Congressional Budget Office.
Also sounds like I'm giving up my BMW for a Hyundai
Comments
Tbh it kinda sounds like neverwinters feats you mess up on those and you have to spend for a respec token to fix what you messed up.
This "Revamp" is Sounding more like something geared to selling respec tokens
I get why Pre-CU players saw it that way. I personally saw it as an improvement. I hated Pre-CU and loved NGE.
almost, but not quite...because in neverwinter, you TRIBBLE up on a feat choice, you can spend astral diamonds (AKA their version of dilithium) to wipe the slate clean instead of needing to buy a respec, and the cost scales up the more feats you'd already purchased when you made the screwup
very cheap if you TRIBBLE up early into the feat tree, not so much if you're almost max level...and at that point, it'd probably be cheaper to buy a respec token
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
yo solo tengo una pregunta, cuando aplicaran este nuevo sistema de skills? y si van a dar el reseteo de skill
It was confirmed on twitter, a free respec will be given when it goes live.
Se confirmó en twitter, se le dará un respec libre cuando entre en funcionamiento.
Thank you, google translator.
Champions also lets you roll back powers a level at a time (post-commit) without spending money on Zen or needing to convert Questionite. It's not cheap, but it's in-game currency and way less expensive than a complete respec. If STO did something like that with skills, I'd be okay with it. But they won't and I won't be happy about spending Zen on unnecessary respecs. They better put in a commit button or make respecs free or hand out a generous amount of them after this thing launches.
If I mess something up while leveling, it's my fault and I'll deal with it. But if I mess up reskilling a level 50+ character on an enforced respec and have to pay to fix it, I will not be a happy camper.
I keep seeing people talk about "Thursday's patch" for tribble being when they will release everyone's characters. Unless you have any insider information on there being a patch for tribble that day, how do you know that's exactly when they'll unlock tribble for our characters?
IIRC, Borticus said that we'd have 1 week to do the testing with these new characters. Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't a week be Friday?
Since last week's maintenance (coincidentally?) coincided with Friday, I loosely assumed they were tying it to the regular maintenance. But yeah, he said 1 week. So, since Tribble has its own (rather haphazard) maintenance cycle, apart from the rather strict Holodeck scheduling, it may well indeed just literally be Friday, instead of Thursday.
At any rate, it's Coming To A Theater Near You Very Soon!
The Thursday date was mentioned in the annoucement, That is were we are getting that information.
Problem as I see it is, this game is always telling me what to spend my money on, instead of what I WANT to spend money on.
Personally, I'd rather buy the flagships than stock up on a bunch of respect tokens, tryin to figure the optimal skill tree. that part burns my marshmallow.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
And i wouldn't Mind some feed back from a dev, trying to prove me wrong...
a) Do you have the uber abilities now?
b) Can you more or less replicate your holodeck builds on tribble?
If the answers are a) no and b) yes, how is it a nerf?
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Answer for both no
Um, yeah. Like 'Long-range Targeting.' That was gratuitously built-in on your beams, got pre-nerfed, with an option to 'buy' back. Or shield regen/hardness, now also nerfed, but which you can get back by getting the 'new' skills (partially, at least: exact effects of the pre-nerf are as of yet unknown).
Bit of a silly question, really, as *everyone* now only has access to a brand new toon (unless some ppl were actually crazy enough to level up their new toon to lv. 60, buy all the gear, make it all Epic, do all the Spezializations, just to get to where they are now; but I think it's safe to assume no one did).
the B ) Question is kinda silly, we cant get the ships we use for said builds, like the mercury, b/c the Z-store is disabled, so i cant replicate my build... HEY CRYPTIC make the Z-Store ships FREE on Tribble so we can Test fly them or at least make the ships we have already bought available to use on tribble.
It wouldn't be STO unless they did it like that. Although I think I'll stick to playing the game they copied this look from. Although its not unexpected but I would hope at some point that they would become original about something.
My one concern is, for the level 60 players since I've notice I don't level up anymore will this affect my skills? and how will this affect the skills I already have?
I wonder, do they even need to nerf our shields, or do the NPC ships get the same access to the new armor and shield penetration we do?
Funny thing is, if thats the way they went about it, I really wouldn't mind it. I can replicate my build on test with a few points left over and I don't think it a bad thing if new NPC abilities means it's not easy to decide where to spend them.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
but that is fine, that there now skills for carrier
It also brings back memories of Cryptic's specialty system implementation which included a hard nerf to the Might set in Champions in iirc 2011. A nerf which made many quit playing. Sometimes balance isn't.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Sounds to me like I'm losing the time and resources invested in my current Character AND Ship builds as well as the time and resources to set up new builds with the now ADDITIONAL cost of buying back some vague semblance of the top tier skills I am LOSING.... "but I'm not losing anything" ......
REALLY?
If I am SPENDING time and resources how am I not losing something? This sounds like some kind of SPIN out of the Congressional Budget Office.
Also sounds like I'm giving up my BMW for a Hyundai